[Rhodes22-list] Coastal Living - Insurance

[john Belanger]

i didn't mind! ;-)) heh! heh!

Steven Alm <stevenalm at gmail.com> wrote:  Brad,

No fair! You may not quote John Lennon in your defence--flip as it may
be--with that kind of sarcasm. He's rolling over...

Slim

On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 6:42 PM, john Belanger wrote:

> ;-))
>
> Brad Haslett wrote: Imagine there's no Heaven
> It's easy if you try
> No hell below us
> Above us only sky
> Imagine all the people
> Living for today
>
> Imagine there's no countries
> It isn't hard to do
> Nothing to kill or die for
> And no religion too
> Imagine all the people
> Living life in peace
>
> You may say that I'm a dreamer
> But I'm not the only one
> I hope someday you'll join us
> And the world will be as one
>
> Imagine no possessions
> I wonder if you can
> No need for greed or hunger
> A brotherhood of man
> Imagine all the people
> Sharing all the world
>
> You may say that I'm a dreamer
> But I'm not the only one
> I hope someday you'll join us
> And the world will live as one
>
> John Lennon, lyricist, John Belanger, dreamer, Brad Haslett, realist.
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 5:47 PM, john Belanger wrote:
>
> > the way i understand it, the doctors would rather have people come to
> them
> > on a regular basis to catch serious illness in the beginning stages,
> much
> > like dentists do, rather than wait until you suddenly collapse on the
> street
> > and get taken to the er. if the va had to deal with vets and their
> > families, that would be a good thing in the eyes of many vets. i was
> also
> > thinking that if regular health care by gubmnt for school age kids was
> free,
> > you might have a serious way of keeping kids in school and away from
> drugs.
> > fewer dropouts, less child abuse and you could cover it right thru to
> age
> > 21. and home schoolers are elegible. pay for it with a federal lottery.
> ;-))
> >
> > Herb Parsons wrote:
> > Right, so if you've got insurance where you can go to your local doctor
> > (because you have it because of your family), why use the insurance
> > where you have to (usually) travel to another city, and wait all day?
> >
> > Now, turn that around, if you have insurance that covers you locally,
> > where you can go to your local doctor and/or hospital and you get that
> > free, why PAY to have the same sort of service.
> >
> > THAT is what's going to pretty much end private heathcare insurance
> > if/when the gubment boondoggle we're headed for.
> >
> > Hank wrote:
> > > Other issues with the VA are that it only covers the vet, not his
> > family.
> > > Healthcare is still needed for the family. Getting appointments at the
> > VA
> > > is a major PITA and it is not conducive to folks who are also working.
> > If
> > > you have an appointment there, plan on spending the whole day. It's
> more
> > for
> > > major illnesses and not well suited to handle daily issues that a
> > Primary
> > > Care physician could handle (i.e. flu, strep throat, sprains, etc.)
> And
> > as
> > > Herb said, if you don't live where they have a hospital, you are SOL
> as
> > you
> > > can't go to another provider and have the VA pay for it.
> > >
> > > Hank
> > >
> > >
> > > On 2/25/08, Herb Parsons wrote:
> > >
> > >> Surely you're not comparing what's available to vets now to what
> would
> > >> happen under the libs views of "universal health care"! Vets "depend"
> > >> on the VA as a last resort, not because of quality of care, but
> because
> > >> of availability of services. I think there's roughly 150 VA hospitals
> > in
> > >> the US. I think there are almost that many private hospitals in the
> DFW
> > >> area. If you throw in doctor's offices, I'm sure the goes way up.
> > >>
> > >> The current health care systems WILL pretty much go away because the
> > >> vast majority of people are going to depend on their rich uncle to
> > "take
> > >> care of things." As they do so, those private companies will go away
> > >> because, unlike the government, their business requires a profit, and
> a
> > >> profit requires a steady stream of INCOME, which will have pretty
> much
> > >> stopped (or been cut way back). By the time the masses realize what
> > >> they've lost, it'll be gone.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Michael D. Weisner wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Herb,
> > >>>
> > >>> You asked:
> > >>> Once it's provided, the current health care systems are going to
> > >>> pretty much go away (why would anyone PAY for the gubment
> > >>> is giving away for "free"?)
> > >>>
> > >>> If this were true, no veteran would have health insurance. Most vets
> > >>> use the VAMC only as a last resort, even though the system can save
> > >>> many quite a bit of money on drugs and DME (scooters, wheel chairs,
> > >>>
> > >> etc.)
> > >>
> > >>> Contrary to popular belief, the VAMC is providing quite a good level
> > of
> > >>> care, much better than many private hospitals. They have vastly
> > >>>
> > >> improved
> > >>
> > >>> their capabilities over the last 20 years.
> > >>>
> > >>> So why will the current health system go away?
> > >>>
> > >>> Mike
> > >>> s/v Shanghai'd Summer ('81)
> > >>> Nissequogue River, NY
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> From: "Herb Parsons" Monday, February 25, 2008
> > >>> 12:12 PM
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>> Your last paragraph says a lot, for those that can read between the
> > >>>> lines. Here's one of my BIGGEST issues with "universal health
> care".
> > >>>> Once it's provided, the current health care systems are going to
> > pretty
> > >>>> much go away (why would anyone PAY for the gubment is giving away
> for
> > >>>> "free"?)
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The employer I have now is the same employer I had 15 years ago
> (new
> > >>>> company, but same owner). He's a big believer in self-insurance. We
> > (as
> > >>>> a company) pay our own insurance, and pay out or own benefits. One
> of
> > >>>> the big advantages to this is the amount of beauracracy that it
> > avoids.
> > >>>> Several years ago (again, different company, but same employer),
> the
> > >>>> insurance administrative company was balking on paying a claim on
> one
> > >>>>
> > >> of
> > >>
> > >>>> my many daughters' hospital bill. After a week of arguing with
> > various
> > >>>> folks, I finally went to the owner of the company. He made one call
> > >>>>
> > >> (and
> > >>
> > >>>> I got to listen to it) and said "It's a valid claim, please pay it
> > >>>> immediately". Ta-daaaa the claim was paid.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> That will go away with the government provided universal health
> care.
> > >>>>
> > >> It
> > >>
> > >>>> will be run by beauracrats that are more interested in putting in
> the
> > 8
> > >>>> hours than actually taking care of business. That's the downside to
> > any
> > >>>> government "business".
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Brad Haslett wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Mike,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> YES! Insure against the things you can't recover from without
> > >>>>>
> > >> help! When
> > >>
> > >>>>> I
> > >>>>> queried my insurance agent about his inability to insure me
> against
> > >>>>> earthquakes, his response was, "the odds are so small". Well,
> that's
> > >>>>> true,
> > >>>>> but my wife has an advanced degree in geophysics paid for by the
> > >>>>> University
> > >>>>> of Memphis which lured her away from the Beijing Seismological
> > >>>>>
> > >> Institute,
> > >>
> > >>>>> but more importantly, if it ain't a risk, why wouldn't you just
> > steal
> > >>>>>
> > >> the
> > >>
> > >>>>> money from me for something that ain't gonna happen? BS. They
> looked
> > >>>>>
> > >> at
> > >>
> > >>>>> the
> > >>>>> risk and passed. Life is full of risks and if you have
> half-a-brain,
> > >>>>>
> > >> you
> > >>
> > >>>>> take the most risk you can afford and pocket the money. The risk
> of
> > >>>>> losing
> > >>>>> my home isn't the end of the world, but I'd like to have enough
> > money
> > >>>>>
> > >> to
> > >>
> > >>>>> forget all about the old neighborhood and what if might become
> (post
> > >>>>> earthquake) and I'm willing to pay for that option. They won't
> take
> > >>>>>
> > >> the
> > >>
> > >>>>> other side of the bet, so they obviously see some risk there.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Health insurance for all is a different issue - the way the
> current
> > >>>>> debate
> > >>>>> is being framed isn't about sharing risk, it is all about
> 'sharing'
> > >>>>> outcomes. Here's a novel idea: ask for health insurance from your
> > >>>>> employer
> > >>>>> instead of income! Income is taxed, most benefits aren't (we are
> > >>>>> assuming
> > >>>>> you have or are seeking an employer). Everyone loves a tax as long
> > as
> > >>>>>
> > >> the
> > >>
> > >>>>> other guy has to pay for it. If everyone who supports universal
> > >>>>>
> > >> health
> > >>
> > >>>>> care
> > >>>>> would volunteer $300 per month to pay for the health care
> insurance
> > of
> > >>>>> one
> > >>>>> other person, the problem would be solved - overnight. But no,
> they
> > >>>>> don't
> > >>>>> want to pay for it, they want someone else to. And you can put me
> in
> > >>>>>
> > >> the
> > >>
> > >>>>> category of "my family comes first!" BTW, that 'other' person is
> the
> > >>>>> target
> > >>>>> of the current wave of populist candidates. That would pretty much
> > be
> > >>>>> all
> > >>>>> of them!
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Brad
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 10:25 AM, Michael D. Weisner
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> From: "Herb Parsons" Monday, February 25,
> > >>>>>>
> > >> 2008
> > >>
> > >>>>>> 12:25 AM
> > >>>>>> {clip}
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> As people discover that they, through the power of their vote,
> can
> > >>>>>>> require insurance companies to pay damages for coverage that
> they
> > >>>>>>>
> > >> were
> > >>
> > >>>>>>> not paid for, force them to do business where it is not
> > economically
> > >>>>>>> viable, force you and I to pay for health care for those that
> are
> > >>>>>>>
> > >> too
> > >>
> > >>>>>>> unmotivated to find the means to do so themselves; I fear we are
> > >>>>>>>
> > >> headed
> > >>
> > >>>>>>> down that path.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> This is nothin' new. Just take a look at the rules for airline
> > >>>>>> operations.
> > >>>>>> In order to serve the lucrative markets, they are forced to run
> > >>>>>> scheduled
> > >>>>>> flights to markets that never earn money (not that I particularly
> > >>>>>>
> > >> agree
> > >>
> > >>>>>> with
> > >>>>>> this regulation.)
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> You know, it seems that when I learned 'bout insurance in school,
> > the
> > >>>>>> concept was that the risk was spread over a large pool. The
> > >>>>>>
> > >> definition
> > >>
> > >>>>>> of
> > >>>>>> insurance went something like this "Insurance - a system to
> protect
> > >>>>>> persons
> > >>>>>> against the risks of financial loss by transferring the risks to
> a
> > >>>>>>
> > >> large
> > >>
> > >>>>>> group who share the financial losses." Providing insurance where
> it
> > >>>>>>
> > >> is
> > >>
> > >>>>>> "not
> > >>>>>> economically viable" was balanced by providing coverage to those
> > >>>>>>
> > >> whose
> > >>
> > >>>>>> risk
> > >>>>>> was much lower but wanted insurance anyway. That's why insurance
> > >>>>>>
> > >> needs
> > >>
> > >>>>>> to
> > >>>>>> be "sold" to folks. Really good salesmen can sell coverages that
> > >>>>>>
> > >> most
> > >>
> > >>>>>> consider uneeded (100 year floods in dry regions.) If insurance
> was
> > >>>>>> only
> > >>>>>> offered where there was very low risk, there would be no life
> > >>>>>>
> > >> insurance
> > >>
> > >>>>>> coverage for anyone over 30!
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Many of us coasties never get flooded and rarely experience
> > >>>>>>
> > >> disasterous
> > >>
> > >>>>>> wind
> > >>>>>> or storm damage. We purchase full homeowner coverages, albeit
> with
> > a
> > >>>>>>
> > >> 5%
> > >>
> > >>>>>> deductible for storm related damage, at a reasonable rate. We
> > insure
> > >>>>>> against losing everything, not to file a claim for a window
> broken
> > >>>>>> during
> > >>>>>> a
> > >>>>>> storm. People need to rethink why they buy insurance in the first
> > >>>>>> place.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Mike
> > >>>>>> s/v Shanghai'd Summer ('81)
> > >>>>>> Nissequogue River, NY
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> __________________________________________________
> > >>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> __________________________________________________
> > >>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> Herb Parsons
> > >>>> S/V O'Jure - O'Day 25
> > >>>> S/V Reve de Pappa - Coronado 35
> > >>>>
> > >>>> __________________________________________________
> > >>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>> __________________________________________________
> > >>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >> --
> > >> Herb Parsons
> > >> S/V O'Jure - O'Day 25
> > >> S/V Reve de Pappa - Coronado 35
> > >>
> > >> __________________________________________________
> > >> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >>
> > >>
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Herb Parsons
> > S/V O'Jure - O'Day 25
> > S/V Reve de Pappa - Coronado 35
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >
> >
> >
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> >
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>
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