[Rhodes22-list] Global warming and Lake Hartwellfreezing over...

Fri Jan 4 13:28:11 EST 2008

Herb,

One of our Christmas day guests was a geophysics professor from an Ivy
League school. I love discussing plate tectonics with geophysicists because
they can't prove their theories anymore than they can disprove mine. The
same is true with climatologists. But, the climatologist crowd has funding
and political clout.  It would all be amusing (as it is with geophysicists)
except the new religion of global warming wants something from us.  I might
be inclined to make the sacrifice they're asking for (for different reasons)
except the sacrifice won't be shared universally. Even if we could prove
beyond doubt that mankind is responsible for global warming (which we
can't), 40% of the world (China and India) doesn't give a shit. That leaves
another 50% who hasn't figured out how to use gasoline for anything but
Molotov cocktails.  You know what, it ain't that cold after all.  I'm going
to the airport to work on my gas guzzling airplane!

Brad

On Jan 4, 2008 10:19 AM, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:

>
>   Sorry, to me it's just more religious techno-babble. You talk about
>   core samples that showed trends thousands of years old, yet the first
>   few lines of the web page you referred to speaks to climate change
>   caused by humans.
>   There IS NO SCIENTIFIC FACTS to support the notion. Not on that web
>   site, nor in the immensely popular religions associated with the stuff
>   today.
>   Even your post indicates your bent - "
> "For those who really are interested in the basis and history of the
> climate
> instead of quoting obscure Russian websites," ...
>
>   As if those of us that don't subscribe to the beliefs (and they are
>   that - beliefs) are somehow not "really interested".
>   Ronald Lipton wrote:
>
> I do know something about this stuff (more than I know about sailing)
> so I will try to outline a bit of the history of the science.
>  Global climate became a subject of study in the 1930's.
> There was some indication then, by looking at the rather sparse weather
> records that there had been some warming over the past century.
> Most took this to be part of a local cycle, but the weather data was
> untrustworthy
> and centered on the Western Hemisphere.  Studies in the 50s and 60s
> focussed on the competing effects of injection of dust and smog, which
> leads
> to
> cooling, and greenhouse gas effects, which would cause warming.  In the
> same period studies began using ice cores and deep ocean sediments of
> climate histories.  Evidence for a 20,000 year cycle developed, with
> larger swings in a 100,000 year period.  This coincides with the period of
> slight deviations of the earth's orbit.  Ice cores showed a pattern
> of rapid warming and slow cooling. These deviations, due to a wobble of
> the
> axis, correspond to a tiny change in the total sunlight absorbed by the
> earth.  This, in turn, led to a realization of the sensitivity of the
> climate system
> to small perterbations.  One of the realizations was that greenhouse gas
> effects could serve to amplify small changes in total sunlight.
>
> On the smaller time scale this was obscured by a slow cooling trend in the
> 50's and 60's.  This led to a period of confusion and contradictory
> predictions.
> At that point climate models were not well enough developed and computing
> power was insufficient to make reliable predictions from first principles.
> Since
> that time the temperature trend has been much more dramatic.  In adidtion
> models have now been developed which can be used to understand the
> climate system.  These models are what global warming predictions are
> based
> on,
> not "gee it's really hot today" or "it sure has been cold this winter".
>  In
> that
> sense climate is more a science that it has been in the past, able to make
> predictions
> based on specific assumptions and verified by it's ability to reporduce
> effects such as the
> el ninos and climatic effects of volcanic eruptions.
>
> For those who really are interested in the basis and history of the
> climate
> instead of
> quoting obscure Russian websites, take a look at the essays posted on the
> American Institute of Physics website:
> [1]http://www.aip.org/history/climate/index.html
>
>
> Ron
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rik Sandberg" [2]<sanderico1 at gmail.com>
> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" [3]<rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 8:24 AM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Global warming and Lake Hartwellfreezing
> over...
>
>
>
>
> Herb,
>
> Ha ha ha ...... that's a good one :-)
>
> I'm gonna' poke my head up just to make a prediction
>
> Sometime in the future .... the Nobel Prize selection committee (whoever
> they are) will look back at the day they chose to award Al Gore a Nobel
> Prize for his little slide show as the most embarrassing day of their
> lives. They'll likely never admit it though. :-)
>
> Spoken from the perspective of someone who should now be frozen in a
> glacier somewhere, had all the "global cooling" predictions of the
> "chicken littles" come true back in the seventies.
>
> Rik
>
> "Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity; and I'm not
> sure about the universe."
> - Albert Einstein
>
>
>
>
> Herb Parsons wrote:
>
>
> Ed, haven't you figured it out?
>
> It all relates to the global cooling we were warned about when we were
> kids. The global cooling created a global warming effect trough
> transverse hyper-inversion induction. This global warming, in turn,
> causes localized cooling (on a global scale) through the same process.
>
> I'm going to make a movie to explain it all, just as soon as my
> fundraising kicks in. Want to start it off?
>
> (from the "they'll believe anything" department)
>
> Herb Parsons
> S/V O'Jure - O'Day 25
> S/V Reve de Pappa - Coronado 35
>
>
> Tootle wrote:
>
>
>
> The last few days have been a bit cooler near Lake Hartwell.  Further
> south,
> I hear of snow at Daytona Beach, Florida.  So what is going on?  Look at
> this analysis:
>
> [4]http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20080103/94768732.html
>
> So how does that article square with Al Gore?  Go pull you head out of
> the
> sand?
>
> [5]http://www.nabble.com/file/p14375865/Lake%2BHartwell%2BAfternoon.JPG
> Lake+Hartwell+Afternoon.JPG
>
> Ed K
> Greenville, SC, USA
> "In order to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the
> universe."
> Carl Sagan
>
>
>
>
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>
>
> --
> Herb Parsons
> S/V O'Jure - O'Day 25
> S/V Reve de Pappa - Coronado 35
>
> References
>
>   1. http://www.aip.org/history/climate/index.html
>   2. mailto:sanderico1 at gmail.com
>   3. mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>   4. http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20080103/94768732.html
>   5. http://www.nabble.com/file/p14375865/Lake%2BHartwell%2BAfternoon.JPG
>   6. mailto:Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>   7. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>   8. mailto:Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>   9. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>  10. mailto:Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>  11. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
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