[Rhodes22-list] motors
Steven Alm
stevenalm at gmail.com
Mon Jun 16 01:56:17 EDT 2008
When the anchor's dug in hard and you're fighting a wind, put the anchor
rode on the winch and use the winch handle. Do it the easy way!
Slim
On Sun, Jun 15, 2008 at 9:15 PM, Alan Robertson <bigal_61 at msn.com> wrote:
> We never could get a Rhodes 22 to plane with Johnson 9.9s and we've used
> this size since '83. Hull design is not for planing but for displacement
> when under power. Doubt if transom could take weight or thrust of anything
> larger than a 15 horse, even with manual starting. Anchor line ought to have
> chain rode regardless so it angles correctly on the bottom. We used to put a
> trip line on the anchor when fishing with our dory on LI Sound and Great
> South Bay years ago and it usually worked well.
>
> Thinking about getting new outboard. Do any of you have diesels and what
> size? Marine gas without ethanol is getting hard to get and is costing over
> $5 per gallon at our Lake George NY marina.
>
> Alan Robertson
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bill Effros<mailto:bill at effros.com>
> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 1:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] motors
>
>
> Lee,
>
> I can't get my boat on a plane with the 8hp motor. The fact that you
> can with a 9.9 is interesting. What do you suppose would happen with a
> 15? or a 25?
>
> When wind and chop get too high, the 8 can't push the boat at hull speed
> on Long Island Sound.
>
> I have gotten stuck on my anchor when the wind exceeded 15 mph. (The
> anchor wouldn't let go unless I got right above it because the wind had
> driven it so hard into the bottom. You quickly understand the idea of
> pulling on the anchor line isn't going to work. I couldn't go straight
> upwind, and started running into propeller problems circling the anchor
> and coming around from the top. ((Laterally you get blown off
> course.)) I wound up putting a life preserver on the anchor line,
> throwing the whole line overboard, ((remember, I use floating anchor
> line--no chain)) circling to where the line dipped into the water,
> hooking the line, letting go of the motor, pulling the anchor straight
> up, getting the anchor on board without smashing into the boat, pulling
> in the rest of the line and the life preserver, watching the lee shore,
> hoping the motor didn't stall or get fouled on anchor line...
>
> I don't recommend this when single handing. If I had a larger motor, I
> would have been able to go straight up wind...
>
> Now I'm wondering, "How large?"
>
> Bill Effros
>
>
>
> KUHN, LELAND wrote:
> > Bill,
> >
> > When it comes time to replace my 9.9 Merc, I was planning on going
> > electric or dropping down to an 8 hp. The 9.9 seems like way too much
> > unnecessary power and way too much weight. Now I'm thinking a 6 hp
> > might be more than enough.
> >
> > Does anyone out there with a 6 hp feel that it's not enough? What's the
> > max speed on calm water? Have you ever had trouble in strong chop or
> > current?
> >
> > My 9.9 will get my Rhodes up on a plane at over 6.5 knots in relatively
> > calm water, and I've done just over 7 knots with small waves behind me.
> > Pretty useless unless I'm trying to outrun a storm. It's so much
> > quieter at slower speeds.
> >
> > Lee
> > 1986 Rhodes22 At Ease
> > Kent Island, MD
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mary Lou Troy [mailto:mtroy at atlanticbb.net]
> > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 11:31 AM
> > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] motors
> >
> > Brad
> > I don't think we ever had our Honda 8 up over 2/3 throttle even in
> > the most trying conditions. Usually it would move the boat to hull
> > speed while loafing along at less than 1/2 throttle so it probably
> > never really needed all 8 horses. Somewhere the law of diminishing
> > returns has kicked in and I have my suspicions it may well be before
> > 8hp. Too soon to tell on the Yamaha 8 but I would expect it to be the
> > same. The big prop/high thrust may change the equation somewhat but I
> > still am willing to be that it is more motor than we need 99.99% of the
> > time.
> >
> > Mary Lou
> > 1991 R22 Fretless
> > Rock Hall, MD
> >
> >
> > At 10:20 AM 5/29/2008, you wrote:
> >
> >> Bill,
> >>
> >> You are basically correct, the 9.9 engine is really a 15 hp engine
> >>
> > de-rated
> >
> >> via fuel flow to beat the regs. The difference between 8 hp and 9.9 hp
> >> doesn't mean squat (as Rummy pointed out) because of hull speed,
> >>
> > however,
> >
> >> the 8 hp engine is working its ass off to produce those 8 hp versus the
> >>
> > 15,
> >
> >> er, 9.9 is loafing. We've been having this discussion on my Beechcraft
> >> Bonanza board lately because 100LL fuel is dying and those boys who own
> >>
> > the
> >
> >> 550 cubic inch engines will be forced to de-rate their power to burn
> >>
> > the
> >
> >> lower octane fuel that my old bird burns with no problem. Weight is
> >>
> > one
> >
> >> thing and a whole other issue. Running a 15 hp engine at the 8 hp
> >>
> > level
> >
> >> will make for a long lasting engine.
> >>
> >> BTW, I got written-up by a student a few months ago because he pissed
> >>
> > me off
> >
> >> with his "stump the professor" questions and I reminded him of the old
> >>
> > adage
> >
> >> of how engines really work - SUCK/SQUEEZE/BANG/BLOW.
> >>
> >> On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 9:38 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com<mailto:
> bill at effros.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> Tom,
> >>>
> >>> The more powerful engine has the same block with a slightly
> >>>
> > different
> >
> >>> bore and the fuel injection is calibrated differently. The only
> >>>
> > real
> >
> >>> difference is power output and price.
> >>>
> >>> You can compensate for weight hanging off the stern by putting a
> >>>
> > bigger
> >
> >>> anchor up front.
> >>>
> >>> I am about to get a 4-stroke for the quiet factor, and trying to
> >>>
> > decide
> >
> >>> between 8 and 9.9.
> >>>
> >>> The 9.9 won't get you any more speed (I don't think you can plane
> >>>
> > when
> >
> >>> using the motor) but it will get you more power when the wind is on
> >>>
> > your
> >
> >>> nose--this will allow you to go faster into the wind.
> >>>
> >>> On the other hand, I would guess it uses more fuel for the same
> >>>
> > distance
> >
> >>> traveled.
> >>>
> >>> Bill Effros
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Mary Lou Troy wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hi Tom,
> >>>> This is a case where I don't think bigger is necessarily better.
> >>>>
> > If
> >
> >>>> the weights are about the same, it probably is a trade-off but in
> >>>>
> > any
> >
> >>>> event it's a lot of weight hanging off the stern of a Rhodes 22.
> >>>>
> > I'm
> >
> >>>> convinced that it does negatively affect sailing characteristics.
> >>>>
> > We
> >
> >>>> scrounged for every pound that we could in looking for a new motor
> >>>> but still ended up over 100 lbs. Of course we decided that at this
> >>>> stage in our lives we've both had transient shoulder and back
> >>>>
> > issues
> >
> >>>> and that electric start made sense so that added to the weight.
> >>>>
> > The
> >
> >>>> old Honda 8 was about 80 lbs. If I was sailing a smaller lake
> >>>> (anything smaller than Lake Champlain) I'd probably want a 4 or 6
> >>>>
> > hp.
> >
> >>>> Our old Honda "classic" 8 was a high thrust 4 stroke motor - not
> >>>>
> > as
> >
> >>>> high thrust as the Yamaha but it worked really well both over long
> >>>> distances and maneuvering in close quarters. We haven't figured
> >>>>
> > out
> >
> >>>> maneuvering with the Yamaha. It doesn't seem to want to turn as
> >>>>
> > well.
> >
> >>>> Maybe the high thrust output against the rudder is interfering a
> >>>>
> > bit.
> >
> >>>> Maybe we just need to get used to it.
> >>>>
> >>>> For motoring long distances (long being 30-35 miles), you can't
> >>>>
> > beat
> >
> >>>> a four stroke. They are quieter and more fuel efficient than most
> >>>> older two strokes. The quiet means you can easily have a
> >>>>
> > conversation
> >
> >>>> with someone else in the cockpit or hear what's happening on the
> >>>> radio. It also keeps a peaceful morning motor with no wind and
> >>>>
> > flat
> >
> >>>> water peaceful.
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't think low rpms will hurt the motor (warning - this entire
> >>>> paragraph is just slightly informed opinion). At a certain point
> >>>>
> > you
> >
> >>>> don't gain anything. A 15 hp won't move the boat any faster or
> >>>>
> > more
> >
> >>>> reliably than an 8. I doubt you could tell the difference between
> >>>>
> > and
> >
> >>>> 8hp and a 9.9hp all other things being equal. You are up to the
> >>>>
> > hull
> >
> >>>> speed limit easily with either one. I imagine (but don't know)
> >>>>
> > that
> >
> >>>> you might be able to tell the difference between a 6hp and an 8hp
> >>>> coming through some place like Kent Narrows with the very strong
> >>>> current under the drawbridge or maybe battling an 18 knot wind on
> >>>>
> > the
> >
> >>>> nose and a nearly one knot current under the Bay Bridge. We've
> >>>>
> > done
> >
> >>>> both of those trips with the old Honda and it performed very well.
> >>>>
> > I
> >
> >>>> expect our new Yamaha 8hp HT would handle both of those equally
> >>>>
> > well.
> >
> >>>> Mary Lou
> >>>> 1991 R22 Fretless
> >>>> Rock Hall, MD
> >>>>
> >>>> At 03:28 PM 5/28/2008, you wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Mary Lou,
> >>>>> Thanks, I will keep the ease of flushing the motor in mind when I
> >>>>>
> > buy.
> >
> >>> Was
> >>>
> >>>>> your old 8 a 4 stroke? Was it high thrust? If the 9.9 and the 8
> >>>>>
> > have
> >
> >>> the
> >>>
> >>>>> same weight, why not buy the most powerful? Is part of the
> >>>>>
> > answer
> >
> >>> related
> >>>
> >>>>> to inefficiency at low rpm, ie., if a stronger engine will get to
> >>>>>
> > hull
> >
> >>> speed
> >>>
> >>>>> at lower rpm, will long runs at low rpm harm the engine? In my
> >>>>>
> >>> landlubber's
> >>>
> >>>>> imagination, I think a big motor will save my ass some day. As I
> >>>>>
> > get
> >
> >>> used
> >>>
> >>>>> to sailing, I am learning that sailing is probalbly safer than
> >>>>>
> > motoring,
> >
> >>> but
> >>>
> >>>>> I do want the ability to cruise long distances, maybe 20-30
> >>>>>
> > windless
> >
> >>> miles
> >>>
> >>>>> with a reliable motor.
> >>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>> Tom Hogarty, boat still on trailer
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Mary Lou Troy-2 wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Tom,
> >>>>>> If you are going to be leaving the boat in the water, one thing
> >>>>>>
> > to
> >
> >>>>>> consider is how easy it is to flush the motor with the boat in
> >>>>>>
> > the
> >
> >>>>>> water. We recently had to replace our 10 year old Honda which
> >>>>>>
> > died
> >
> >>>>>> from saltwater corrosion in the cooling water passages. There
> >>>>>>
> > was no
> >
> >>>>>> way to easily flush the motor. Newer Hondas have a more
> >>>>>>
> > accessible
> >
> >>>>>> flushing mechanism as do the Yamahas which is what we ended uo
> >>>>>>
> > with
> >
> >>>>>> (8 hp high thrust). Too soon to tell you how we like it compared
> >>>>>>
> > to
> >
> >>>>>> the Honda. We looked at a Mercury that was not easily flushed.
> >>>>>>
> > I've
> >
> >>>>>> heard but couldn't verify that the clearance in the cooling
> >>>>>>
> > passages
> >
> >>>>>> in the Merc are larger than in the Honda so this may not be a
> >>>>>> problem. We didn't want to chance it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We've found that 8 hp seems to be more than enough for any
> >>>>>>
> > conditions
> >
> >>>>>> you might want to be out in. The old 8 horse Honda pushed us
> >>>>>>
> > through
> >
> >>>>>> some strong currents, high winds and good sized waves on the
> >>>>>>
> > nose. We
> >
> >>>>>> could motor easily at hull speed in milder conditions.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Mary Lou
> >>>>>> 1991 R22 Fretless
> >>>>>> Finally in the water in Rock Hall, MD
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> At 11:16 PM 5/27/2008, you wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Rob,
> >>>>>>> I plan to sail the Chesapeake and am just mulling over the
> >>>>>>>
> > purchase of
> >
> >>> a
> >>>
> >>>>>>> high thrust outboard, certainly a 4 stroke.
> >>>>>>> Tom
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Rob Lowe wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Tom,
> >>>>>>>> Where are you sailing? I sail an inland lake and my standard
> >>>>>>>>
> > 8hp 4
> >
> >>>>>>> stroke
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> has more than enough power. I rarely run it over 1/2
> >>>>>>>>
> > throttle.
> >
> >>> Those
> >>>
> >>>>>>> on
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> the coast might recommend something different. In fact, I
> >>>>>>>>
> > suspect a
> >
> >>>>>>> 6hp
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> would suit my needs. At one time there was a big 2 vs. 4
> >>>>>>>>
> > stroke
> >
> >>> debate
> >>>
> >>>>>>>> amongst the members, but if you are considering a new motor,
> >>>>>>>>
> > about
> >
> >>> all
> >>>
> >>>>>>> you
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> can find is a 4 stroke unless you are looking at discontinued
> >>>>>>>>
> > models.
> >
> >>>>>>> -
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> rob
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>>> From: "Tom Hogarty" <hogarty at vcn.com<mailto:hogarty at vcn.com>>
> >>>>>>>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org<mailto:
> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>>
> >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 5:24 PM
> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Politics: Obama is a Crook!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I am also considering a new outboard. Are the high thrust
> >>>>>>>>>
> > models, 8
> >
> >>>>>>> or 9
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> hp
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> ok? When not specified, I assume you are talking about 4
> >>>>>>>>>
> > cycles.
> >
> >>>>>>>>> Tom Hogarty
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Arthur H. Czerwonky wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Bill,
> >>>>>>>>>> No reflection on the Merc 9.9, but I have found, as others,
> >>>>>>>>>>
> > that
> >
> >>> the
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Tohatsu 8 is one excellent choice for the R22. You might
> >>>>>>>>>>
> > give it
> >
> >>>>>>> some
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> thought. I have no idea on costing, but Ron Singerman is
> >>>>>>>>>>
> > using a
> >
> >>>>>>> 9.8
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> on
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> his new boat.
> >>>>>>>>>> Art
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> From: bdunn1 <bdunn1 at aol.com<mailto:bdunn1 at aol.com>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: May 27, 2008 11:40 AM
> >>>>>>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> <mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>>,
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Politics: Obama is a Crook!
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Rummy: Need your advice; my 8 hp Yamaha on my 98 Rhodes bit
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> > the
> >
> >>>>>>> dust; I
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> am considering a 9.9 Mercury 4-cycle. When I bought the boat
> >>>>>>>>>
> > used it
> >
> >>>>>>> had
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> the remote controls and the motor connected to the rudder for
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> steering.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Question: Can I use the Mercury with the standard "all the
> >>>>>>>>>
> > controls
> >
> >>> in
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>> one
> >>>>>>>>> handle", not connect it to the rudder and steer into and out
> >>>>>>>>>
> > of the
> >
> >>>>>>> dock
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> with the rudder in the upright position using the motor to
> >>>>>>>>>
> > steer?
> >
> >>>>>>> There
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> will be some conflict with the railing but I thought by
> >>>>>>>>>
> > tilting the
> >
> >>>>>>>> control
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> it would be ok.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> regards,
> >>>>>>>>>>> Bill Dunn
> >>>>>>>>>>> On May 27, 2008, at 10:20:26 AM, R22RumRunner at aol.com<mailto:
> R22RumRunner at aol.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>>>>>>>>>> From: R22RumRunner at aol.com<mailto:R22RumRunner at aol.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Politics: Obama is a Crook!
> >>>>>>>>>>> Date: May 27, 2008 10:20:26 AM EDT
> >>>>>>>>>>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org<mailto:
> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Nope, not a thing. Same crap, different day. You know,
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> > politics
> >
> >>> and
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>> some
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> sailing stuff thrown in for good measure.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Rummy
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> In a message dated 5/27/2008 10:13:38 A.M. Eastern Daylight
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> > Time,
> >
> >>>>>>>>>>> bill at effros.com<mailto:bill at effros.com> writes:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Have I missed anything?
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Bill Effros
> >>>>>>>>>>> s/v Little Queenie
> >>>>>>>>>>> Greenwich, CT
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org<mailto:
> Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list<
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>> "Cooking
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>> with
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> (
> >>>>>>>>>
> > http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002<
> http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002>)
> >
> >>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org<mailto:
> Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list<
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org<mailto:
> Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list<
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org<mailto:
> Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list<
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>> View this message in context:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >
> http://www.nabble.com/Re%3A-Politics%3A--Obama-is-a-Crook%21-tp17491569p<
> http://www.nabble.com/Re%3A-Politics%3A--Obama-is-a-Crook%21-tp17491569p>
> > 17500355.html
> >
> >>>>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org<mailto:
> Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list<
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org<mailto:Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>,
> Help? www.rhodes22.org/list<http://www.rhodes22.org/list>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>> View this message in context:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> > http://www.nabble.com/Re%3A-Politics%3A--Obama-is-a-Crook%21-tp174<
> http://www.nabble.com/Re%3A-Politics%3A--Obama-is-a-Crook%21-tp174>
> >
> >>>>> 91569p17504382.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org<mailto:Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>,
> Help? www.rhodes22.org/list<http://www.rhodes22.org/list>
> >>>>>>>
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> >>>>>>> Checked by AVG.
> >>>>>>> Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1468 - Release
> >>>>>>>
> > Date:
> >
> >>>>>>> 5/26/2008 3:23 PM
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org<mailto:Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>,
> Help? www.rhodes22.org/list<http://www.rhodes22.org/list>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> View this message in context:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >
> http://www.nabble.com/Re%3A-Politics%3A--Obama-is-a-Crook%21-tp17491569p<
> http://www.nabble.com/Re%3A-Politics%3A--Obama-is-a-Crook%21-tp17491569p>
> > 17520294.html
> >
> >>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org<mailto:Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>,
> Help? www.rhodes22.org/list<http://www.rhodes22.org/list>
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> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org<mailto:Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>,
> Help? www.rhodes22.org/list<http://www.rhodes22.org/list>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org<mailto:Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>,
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> >>>
> >>>
> >> __________________________________________________
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