[Rhodes22-list] Sailboats - Weather - Politics (Big Al, he was your governor)
Herb Parsons
hparsons at parsonsys.com
Thu Mar 27 18:54:32 EDT 2008
Granted, it's in the interpretation, but here are the salient parts:
=====
"Understanding this reality requires a reminder of how we arrived at
this point. As William Faulkner once wrote, "The past isn't dead and
buried. In fact, it isn't even past." We do not need to recite here the
history of racial injustice in this country. But we do need to remind
ourselves that so many of the disparities that exist in the
African-American community today can be directly traced to inequalities
passed on from an earlier generation that suffered under the brutal
legacy of slavery and Jim Crow.
Segregated schools were, and are, inferior schools; we still haven't
fixed them, fifty years after Brown v. Board of Education, and the
inferior education they provided, then and now, helps explain the
pervasive achievement gap between today's black and white students."
-----
So, "segregated schools" are the cause of the gape between today's black
and white students, or at least helps explain it. However, there is no
organized segregation. There IS the segregation that exists because in
many areas, blacks live near each other, and thus go to local schools
together. However, that form of "segregation" wouldn't explain why
Italians that school together still manage, or Asians, or any other
ethnic group that tends to live in proximity to each other.
=====
Then this:
"Legalized discrimination - where blacks were prevented, often through
violence, from owning property, or loans were not granted to
African-American business owners, or black homeowners could not access
FHA mortgages, or blacks were excluded from unions, or the police force,
or fire departments -- meant that black families could not amass any
meaningful wealth to bequeath to future generations. That history helps
explain the wealth and income gap between black and white, and the
concentrated pockets of poverty that persists in so many of today's
urban and rural communities."
-----
Except it doesn't, because those inequeties existed for other groups,
just about any ethnic group you can name.
=====
And, of course, that history gives an easy target for the "blame game"
for current generations who don't really face the same issues:
"That legacy of defeat was passed on to future generations -- those
young men and increasingly young women who we see standing on street
corners or languishing in our prisons, without hope or prospects for the
future. "
=====
But this is the one that was the kicker, and I leave it for the last
deliberately:
"But for all those who scratched and clawed their way to get a piece of
the American Dream, there were many who didn't make it -- those who were
ultimately defeated, in one way or another, by discrimination. "
Notice he left no other possible explanation for their "ultimate defeat"
other than - you got it - discrimination.
No where does he introduce the possibility that the individuals may be
there because of their own choices and actions. Their failures, if they
fail, are caused "in one way or another, by discrimination".
I can't help but wonder, those white guys in prisons and on street
corners, and Asians, and every other group someone who wants to use to
cast blame somewhere else; what do they blame their actions on?
petelargo wrote:
> Just pulled the speech up and do not see any reference to him "blaming every
> ill amongst blacks on the circumstance that brought them here". Please
> 'copy' and paste the segment that you are referring to.
>
> I did see the ONLY attempt in decades to address WHY there might be some
> anger NOT ONLY with blacks, but with whites and others as well, while
> immediately addressing it head-on.
>
>
> hparsons wrote:
>
>> Nope. Didn't miss a thing. Most of it was a great speech, until he
>> blamed every ill amongst blacks on the circumstances that brought them
>> here. There's no excuse for what he's excusing. None. And as long as
>> their "leaders" promote excuses, instead of telling them they must do
>> better, they will have no real leaders.
>>
>>
>> petelargo wrote:
>>
>>> Really, you missed quite a bit then. I guess you must be talking about
>>> the
>>> other races that chose to come here.
>>>
>>>
>>> hparsons wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Sorry Pete, I didn't see any attempt by Barak to have a "nuanced
>>>> discussion on race". Instead, I saw him excusing the faults of the race
>>>> that he claims. He conveniently left out references to other races in
>>>> this country that have somehow managed to overcome and prosper.
>>>>
>>>> petelargo wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Amen to you and Slim.
>>>>>
>>>>> Personally I hate it when a politician talks to us like adults. Gimme
>>>>> those
>>>>> good ol dumbed-down sound-bites. And don't worry John McCain will fall
>>>>> apart in any real debate. His chatty-cathy doll string is already
>>>>> breaking
>>>>> down and the real fun hasn't even started. His 'senior moments' have
>>>>> just
>>>>> begun, along with the memory of his lusting to be a democrat. In the
>>>>> end,
>>>>> all he really has is just 'more bush'.
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't forget George still has time to pull the economy out of the
>>>>> bucket
>>>>> with his back door socialism for corporate america. Socialize the
>>>>> losses
>>>>> (our tax problem) - privatize the profits (their gains). And my
>>>>> Haliburton
>>>>> stocks are soaring thanks to the no-bid contracts and the 17 million
>>>>> dollars
>>>>> an hour american hemorrhage.
>>>>>
>>>>> And finally, it always refreshing to hear over and over the white bread
>>>>> take
>>>>> on the wheat bread american experience with such authority.
>>>>>
>>>>> It may be political suicide to attempt a nuanced discussion on race,
>>>>> but
>>>>> it
>>>>> does take courage.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Robert Skinner wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Good morning, friends.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Slim has a very interesting point here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Those of us who believe that the Republican machine
>>>>>> has taken us in the wrong direction on a number of
>>>>>> major issues are interested in changing horses --
>>>>>> in mid-stream if necessary.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The focus is on change, and Obama has a good grip on
>>>>>> that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Like Slim, my father and his contemporaries were
>>>>>> racist ethnophobes. Initially, up to the age of 25
>>>>>> or so, I bought their values. Then I wound up
>>>>>> thinking for myself, and questioning things. That
>>>>>> has led to a rather different view of the world.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now I live in the uncertain territory between "is"
>>>>>> and "ought to be" -- depressing, exhilarating,
>>>>>> tragic, dangerous, and the ultimate comedy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In our system of government, parties can assume too
>>>>>> important a role, but they are the current reality,
>>>>>> good and evil simultaneously.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> /Robert
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Steven Alm wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Brad,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let me get this straight. You think Obama's toast because he knows
>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>> who's angry about the black experience in America? Or he knows some
>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>> knows some one who knows some one who likes Farrakhan? This guilt by
>>>>>>> association is a lot of BS. Do you really think Obama's a racist
>>>>>>> extremist? Do you really think he's a Muslim? A commy? Do you
>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>> think he has some hidden, anti-American agenda? First, he's just as
>>>>>>> much
>>>>>>> white as he is black. Why not call him a white man? Next, let's
>>>>>>> remember
>>>>>>> that the USA has not exactly been kind to blacks and I think it's
>>>>>>> pretty
>>>>>>> easy for us white folks to dismiss Rev. Wright's comments as racist,
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>> (Wright) is not wrong when he says America is controlled by rich
>>>>>>> white
>>>>>>> men
>>>>>>> to the exclusion of blacks. If you were black, I'm sure you'd have a
>>>>>>> whole
>>>>>>> different take on the American experience. But it's almost
>>>>>>> impossible
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> the typical white person to see that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I do not use the word "typical" lightly. Neither does Obama. Of
>>>>>>> course
>>>>>>> there is such a thing. We all have our own bias. It's like the
>>>>>>> default
>>>>>>> setting on your computer. If you told me a story about a person
>>>>>>> who...
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> would automatically think you're telling me about a middle-aged,
>>>>>>> middle-class white male because that's my default bias. I can't
>>>>>>> change
>>>>>>> that. I can't change who I am. And of course there's nothing wrong
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> that. It's when you get to the stereotypes and prejudice (root word
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> pre-judge) that we get into trouble. This is where Rev. Wright got
>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>> trouble--by letting his bias lean into the stereotypes and prejudice
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> think Obama made that very clear in his now-famous speech addressing
>>>>>>> race
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> America. The only road to success is to be positive instead of
>>>>>>> divisive.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I know what the right is asking here--how can you damn America when
>>>>>>> she's
>>>>>>> sending you a welfare check every month? The left is saying we
>>>>>>> wouldn't
>>>>>>> have to send the checks if we didn't have such an inhospitable
>>>>>>> environment
>>>>>>> for them. This paradox will not be solved anytime soon but I truly
>>>>>>> believe
>>>>>>> Obama's got the issue well-organized in his head and has the guts to
>>>>>>> fight
>>>>>>> the good fight against this ugly monster of racism that is still so
>>>>>>> prevalent in our great but could be greater country.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To put it in another perspective, my own dear old dad is a
>>>>>>> dyed-in-the-wool
>>>>>>> right winger and many times I've heard him utter extremely racist
>>>>>>> remarks,
>>>>>>> the specifics of which I'm far too polite to repeat here. Were I a
>>>>>>> candidate and his remarks were leaked to the public, I suppose my
>>>>>>> campaign
>>>>>>> would be over. After all, he's not merely my pastor, he's my flesh
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> blood. I could hardly deny that he's been my mentor. I love my dad
>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>> matter what trash he talks but many would conclude that I'm a racist
>>>>>>> too
>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>> association. Is that fair?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Next question: who said the world is fair? Maybe you're right, Brad,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>> is toast because of this. Or maybe the general population forgets
>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>> this by the time of the general election. People have pretty short
>>>>>>> memories. Either way it doesn't speak very well for the typical
>>>>>>> American
>>>>>>> voter if they vote one way or the other based on this single issue.
>>>>>>> Many
>>>>>>> will not vote for Obama because he's (half) black. Many will not
>>>>>>> vote
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> HillBilly because she's female. Many will not vote for McCain
>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>> he's
>>>>>>> old. I think you're in the minority though if you're voting
>>>>>>> *for*something--most people vote
>>>>>>> *against* something--myself included--I'll be voting against the
>>>>>>> incumbent
>>>>>>> party.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Slim
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 5:07 PM, Tootle <ekroposki at charter.net>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Captain Rummy,
>>>>>>>> The list is quiet because of the weather. Brad sailed his boat
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> house... And how much snow did you get this afternoon? It was
>>>>>>>> snowing
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Wahalla around 2 P.M.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maybe all the snow in Upstate New York has kept the New York
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rhodies
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> quiet about their former Governor and for that matter their current
>>>>>>>> Governor... Apparently they both have the same problem, only one
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>> caught
>>>>>>>> by wire tap...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Brad,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Come on now, Obama is not toast. He still has some Rhodies in
>>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>> following. You never heard those Rhodies disclaim him. They
>>>>>>>> probably
>>>>>>>> enjoyed Rev. Wright's sermons. You should send those sermons to
>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>> Effros
>>>>>>>> and ask him to comment. Maybe those Rhodies can get Rev. Wright to
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> preach
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> at their boat launchings. They probably enjoy those UTubes:
>>>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdJB-qkfUHc&feature=related
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> See this:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/file/p16262834/cloth.gif cloth.gif
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ed K
>>>>>>>> Greenville, SC, USA
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Obviously, the list is slow to take advantage of 'global warming'
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> starting the season early. I'll take advantage of the lull and fire
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> shots at something other than squirrels.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Economy - Business runs in cycles, get it? There's always the 'next
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> best
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> thing' and when it falls flat on its ass, there's always 'the next
>>>>>>>> best
>>>>>>>> thing'. If you have half a brain you understand this cycle. If you
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1/4 a brain, you worry about recessions. Don't believe anything
>>>>>>>> anyone
>>>>>>>> says
>>>>>>>> about our current economy. We're in a recession! Either the sky is
>>>>>>>> falling
>>>>>>>> or stocks are on sale! I'm buying!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Politics - Obama is toast! You don't win 'white' votes lecturing
>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> how their grandmother was a 'racist'. This guy will be lucky to get
>>>>>>>> re-elected to the Senate from Illinois. Trust me on this, a lot of
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> in downstate IL would love to have their vote back. He doesn't
>>>>>>>> stand
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> chance in the general as POTUS and is a footnote in Illinois
>>>>>>>> politics
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> well.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sailing - the cost is going up! Sails are made from oil based
>>>>>>>> products
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> you'll see the price increases at replacement time. On the other
>>>>>>>> hand,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> fuel budget for five years of sailing is still less than $200 (not
>>>>>>>> counting
>>>>>>>> the cost of getting to/from the boat). Just when you lose faith in
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> world, you realize there are a few good men like Stan Spitzer who
>>>>>>>> build
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> superior product that everyone can enjoy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Have a nice day and 'don't worry, be happy!"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Brad
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/file/p16262834/cloth.gif cloth.gif
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/Politics---Economics---Sailboats-tp16256610p16262834.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Robert Skinner "Squirrel Haven"
>>>>>> Gorham, Maine 04038-1331
>>>>>> s/v "Little Dipper" & "Edith P."
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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