[Rhodes22-list] Outdoor Storage ? ?

EmailUser sloopblueheron sloopblueheron at isp.com
Thu Oct 16 21:15:46 EDT 2008 

Hank and Lee,

There are many ways to put stress on your boat's hull and rigging.  To me,
the ease of lowering the R22's mast doesn't justify the wear and tear of
leaving it up all winter.  I'd rather save the boat for a fun ride in
pounding waves.

I live in Cleveland where it can get to 20 below and windspeeds along the
lakeshore can get to 70 mph.  I just don't think contracted rigging trying
to bend a brittle hull for dozens of hours over the winter is worth putting
my boat through.

Of course, there are many boats stored around Cleveland with masts up.  In a
well managed yard, the risk of a boat toppling is low.  But my club is
do-it-yourself and we average 2 boats a year that topple.  They're always
stored on jack stands.  So I park among the trailer crowd where it is
safer.

Rick

On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 8:25 AM, KUHN, LELAND <LKUHN at cnmc.org> wrote:

> Hank & Rick,
>
> I don't know of any marinas that require masts to come down for dry
> storage, but my old marina wouldn't allow us to have the sails attached,
> furling or non-furling.  Even if properly secured, they were afraid they
> might come loose and cause damage.
>
> It happened to one of our Rhodes.  We assume that workers accidentally
> untied the Genoa ties and a huge wind unfurled it, tilting the boat on
> the jack stands.  The topsides had to be repainted; the Genoa and furler
> needed replacing; and damage was caused to a neighboring yacht.
>
> I considered this a freak accident, and always keep my sails attached
> with the mast up.
>
> Lee
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hank [mailto:hnw555 at gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 10:46 PM
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outdoor Storage ? ?
>
> Rick,
>
> Where are you located?  Here on the east coast every boat yard has
> dozens,
> if not hundreds, of boats stored on the hard with the mast up.
> Everything
> from 20' to 50'.  Boats don't generally topple in a yard because the
> mast is
> up, they topple because they are incorrectly blocked or someone has
> messed
> with the jackstands.
>
> I still stand by my position that your reasons for taking down the mast
> regarding stress on the mast, rigging and chainplates just doesn't make
> sense.  The stress is too small to be a factor based upon the loads it
> is
> designed to handle.
>
> Hank
>
> On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 9:09 PM, EmailUser sloopblueheron <
> sloopblueheron at isp.com> wrote:
>
> > Hank,
> >
> > As Andrew says, the rigging and hull react differently to wind on the
> mast
> > in the water as opposed to when the boat is stiffly supported by jack
> > stands.  Under sail, the mast distributes the force evenly in one
> > direction rather than wobbling as it does when bare.
> >
> > Another problem with storing the boat with the mast up is you don't
> get a
> > chance to inspect and oil the stays in the spring.  Also, mast up
> storage
> > raises the center of gravity making toppling more likely.
> >
> > My club won't store boats with masts up because our insurance prohits
> it,
> > probably due to the toppling factor.  A very good sailboat yard next
> door
> > does store boats mast up, but only if the masts are keel mounted.
> >
> > Rick
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 3:07 PM, Andrew Collins <
> > sailingvesselcarmen at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hank
> > >
> > > You are right.
> > >
> > > A couple of nuances:
> > >
> > > - on water the boat will give way to imposed forces, whether they be
> > wind,
> > > water, or other, so the entire vessel sees less reaction in all
> parts of
> > it
> > > structure. As Newton said, 'for every action, there is an equal and
> > > opposite
> > > reaction' . Or something like that. So a boat on a stand will offer
> more
> > > resistance to wind than a boat on the water which can give way,
> heel,
> > aling
> > > itself to path of least resistance, etc.
> > >
> > > - loosening the rigging too much will cause impact forces to occur
> as the
> > > mast shifts in reaction to wind shifts or gusts and is stopped
> abruptly
> > by
> > > the rigging wires. These forces are typically orders of magnitude
> higher
> > > than those experienced by taught rigging supporting a mast.
> > >
> > > Andrew
> > > sv Carmen
> > >  On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 2:50 PM, Hank <hnw555 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Rick,
> > > >
> > > > How does a boat on stands suffer more stress than a boat in the
> water?
> > >  The
> > > > IMF mast offers the same wind resistance whether in the water or
> on
> > > stands
> > > > so how does that make a difference.  Thousands of boats are stored
> > every
> > > > winter on jack stands with the mast up with no detrimental
> effects.
> > > >
> > > > Certainly, the boat sits a little differently on stands than it
> does in
> > > the
> > > > water, but I don't see how this could place more stress on the
> rigging
> > > and
> > > > chain plates.  The hull just doesn't flex that much.  And if you
> were
> > > > really
> > > > worried about it, just loosen the turn buckles a turn or two while
> on
> > the
> > > > stands.  The mast will still have plenty of support since it is
> > unloaded
> > > > and
> > > > not withstanding the pressure of sailing.  By the way, actually
> sailing
> > > > your
> > > > boat puts MUCH more stress on the rigging and chainplates than
> being at
> > > > rest
> > > > either in the water or on the hard.  The rigging and the
> chainplates
> > are
> > > > designed for this.
> > > >
> > > > I'm sorry, but your statement just doesn't make any sense.
> > > >
> > > > Hank
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 10/14/08, EmailUser sloopblueheron <sloopblueheron at isp.com>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill,
> > > > >
> > > > > A boat in the cradle with the mast up suffers more stress on the
> > > rigging
> > > > > and
> > > > > chain plates than a boat in the water.  Especially the IMF mast
> that
> > > > offers
> > > > > a lot of wind resistance.
> > > > >
> > > > > Rick
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 9:04 AM, <Bdunn1 at aol.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I need some advice.   My Rhodes is on Lake George and in the
> past I
> > > > have
> > > > > > taken the mast down and stored the boat in the boathouse.   I
> can't
> > > do
> > > > > that
> > > > > > this
> > > > > > year.   Is there any problem with leaving the boat outside
> with the
> > > > mast
> > > > > up
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > a cradle?   Should I loosely drape the boat?   Any possible
> damage
> > to
> > > > the
> > > > > > sail
> > > > > > within the mast?   Thank you.
> > > > > > Bill Dunn
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > >
> > > > > Rick
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-- 
Regards,

Rick

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