[Rhodes22-list] Praise Jesus, the "evolutionists" are going to save us from the Republicans

Lowe, Rob rlowe at vt.edu
Tue Sep 9 14:51:54 EDT 2008


Ah, but that's where the disagreement lies.  You say it's a human at
that point, I say it is not.  So you say it's killing.  I say it's not.
And whether it's a human or not is a matter of belief, which leads us
back to religion.


-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Herb Parsons
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 2:42 PM
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Praise Jesus, the "evolutionists" are going
to save us from the Republicans

Pete, sorry buddy, but as long as someone is killing another human, it's

EVERYONE's business.


petelargo wrote:
> It sure sounds like a 'I want the government out of our lives except
for my
> religious beliefs' conservative. 
> If it's your belief that a woman is killing another human being, then
in the
> privacy of your family exercise your belief and don't do it, and leave
the
> government and the rest of us out of it.
>
>
> hparsons wrote:
>   
>> I would agree, except in this case, the individual's religious belifs

>> involve yet another individual. You are advocating that a woman be 
>> allowed to kill another living human based on HER religious beliefs,
not 
>> those of that living human.
>>
>> Rik Sandberg wrote:
>>     
>>> Herb,
>>>
>>> Well, here you go my friend. War is a terrible analogy.
>>>
>>> IF we are going to have freedom OF religion, which would also
include 
>>> freedom FROM religion and the abortion issue is mostly decided on a 
>>> religious (or non-religious, choice again) basis, it is not our
place to 
>>> expect anyone else to assume our religious beliefs.
>>>
>>> Which leads us right back to; the gov't should have no voice in this
at
>>> all.
>>>
>>> Rik
>>>
>>> Ayn Rand was a prophet - - it isn't my fault
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Herb Parsons wrote:
>>>   
>>>       
>>>> I like your honest assessment on Palin, but I disagree about your 
>>>> labeling of the position.
>>>>
>>>> If I say I'm not going to fight in a war, but it's OK if my
government 
>>>> attacks another, am I anti-war, or pro-war?
>>>>
>>>> Obviously, you'll not have an abortion, that would mean a male
could be 
>>>> neither pro or anti; however, anyone that believes the issue does
not 
>>>> affect me is wearing blinders.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rik Sandberg wrote:
>>>>   
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>>>> Herb,
>>>>>
>>>>> Agreed. Palin claims no more religiousity (is that a word, sounds
good) 
>>>>> than either of the other three candidates involved. She has also
shown 
>>>>> that she can govern without forcing forcing those beliefs on her 
>>>>> constituents.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the abortion issue: Yep, she's against them, for her. So am I,
for 
>>>>> me. I am pro-choice. People just can't seem to get a handle on the
idea 
>>>>> that pro-choice doesn't mean anti or pro abortion. It means you
should 
>>>>> be able to make your own choice and let others make theirs, ie,
mind 
>>>>> your own business.
>>>>>
>>>>>  From what I've seen Palin, as governor of Alaska has been doing
this
>>>>> too.
>>>>>
>>>>> If I had my way, the federal gov't wouldn't be involved in
abortion at
>>>>> all.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rik
>>>>>
>>>>> Ayn Rand was a prophet - - it isn't my fault
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Herb Parsons wrote:
>>>>>   
>>>>>     
>>>>>       
>>>>>           
>>>>>> Stan,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What evidence do you have that would lead you to believe that
Palin 
>>>>>> would force her religious belief on anyone? My understanding is
that 
>>>>>> she's all for allowing the individual states to set the standard.

>>>>>> However, that's really beside the point. As you said, anyone's
>>>>>> pinpoint 
>>>>>> of the exact time is a "religious" matter, or a matter of fath,
thus 
>>>>>> ANYONE setting pinpointed time would be them foisting their
beliefs on 
>>>>>> others.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Surely you're not advocating allowing the parents to decide at
any
>>>>>> time 
>>>>>> they choose, up to and including while the "fetus" is still in
>>>>>> college?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> stan wrote:
>>>>>>   
>>>>>>     
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>         
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>> Slim,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As a member of your religious faith, and an ardent fan, if you
really
>>>>>>> plan 
>>>>>>> to skip voting (in effect voting for those whose direct
religious 
>>>>>>> instructions got us into such a waste of our wealth and blood) I
>>>>>>> would be 
>>>>>>> truly saddened.   I don't think poorly of John's and Palin's
>>>>>>> inability to 
>>>>>>> live up to their own family values, relying on their gods to
forgive
>>>>>>> them - 
>>>>>>> I worry about their health; a topic that seems to be forbidden
to
>>>>>>> address. 
>>>>>>> John's cheek is not like that from his prisoner days and his vp
could
>>>>>>> be our 
>>>>>>> leader without notice.  Then where would this country's founding
>>>>>>> desire for 
>>>>>>> religious freedom end up?  The first example is already on the
table
>>>>>>> and 
>>>>>>> Catholic Joe has it right:  When life starts is a religious
opinion
>>>>>>> and 
>>>>>>> should not be one decided by government.   You may feel life
does not
>>>>>>> start 
>>>>>>> until a breath is taken, the Jews count a number of months
before the
>>>>>>> start, 
>>>>>>> the Christens count from the moment the cells begin dividing. 
>>>>>>> Personally I 
>>>>>>> don't think it starts until after college.  If we allow a Palin
to
>>>>>>> call such 
>>>>>>> shots we are on a path Jefferson and all those other smart guys
>>>>>>> insisted on 
>>>>>>> avoiding.   McCain told the TV interviewer that if he had his
way the
>>>>>>> first 
>>>>>>> judge he would get rid of is Ginsberg and than went down the
list of
>>>>>>> her 
>>>>>>> kind.   Once this is allowed to start (we already have allowed
god
>>>>>>> onto our 
>>>>>>> coins), god (hypocritically speaking) help us - or we will all,
>>>>>>> eventually, 
>>>>>>> become strong advocates of the second amendment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John, at least is a flip flopper so, if elected, would probably
>>>>>>> revert to 
>>>>>>> many of his reasonable positions.  It is Palin I am fearful will
give
>>>>>>> us 
>>>>>>> even worse than another 8 years.  (And this from a confessed
>>>>>>> womanizer.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> stan/ec
>>>>>>>  .
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>> From: "Steven Alm" <stevenalm at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 2:02 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Praise Jesus,the "evolutionists"
are
>>>>>>> going to 
>>>>>>> save us from the Republicans
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   
>>>>>>>     
>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>> Todd,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm an atheist and I think Palin's a religious kook.  And
you're
>>>>>>>> right, I
>>>>>>>> won't vote for a religious kook.  I haven't studied Darwin very
much
>>>>>>>> (and 
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> applaud your research and quotes) but I don't think that's the
only
>>>>>>>> rebuke
>>>>>>>> to creationism.  Since most of the species of plant and animal
life
>>>>>>>> on 
>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> earth are in fact extinct, I'd call that "unintelligent
design."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You said there are only two possibilities as to how life
started. 
>>>>>>>> Are you
>>>>>>>> sure?  How do you know this?  What I know is that all religions
>>>>>>>> serve in
>>>>>>>> answering three questions:  Where did we come from, how do we
live
>>>>>>>> and 
>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>> happens when we die?  Myself, I've answered those questions to
my
>>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>>> satisfaction and I don't need the church to tell me anything.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Slim
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 5:32 PM, Todd Tavares
<sprocket80 at mail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     
>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>> Slim, Wow!  are you are going to vote for Obama because he is
a
>>>>>>>>> Marxist
>>>>>>>>> or not vote for McCain just because Palin is a religious
extremist?
>>>>>>>>> :^D
>>>>>>>>> Glad you mentioned carbon dating.  Carbon has been proven by
many
>>>>>>>>> scientists to be a wholly inaccurate method of dating.  I am
far
>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>> being a scientist...or a religious kook thinking the earth is
only
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> couple of thousand of years old, but there is just as much
>>>>>>>>> scientific
>>>>>>>>> information out there to; while not proving creation is the
truth,
>>>>>>>>> surely
>>>>>>>>> proves evolution is improbable if not impossible.  You
are/were an
>>>>>>>>> educator and were taught evolution from a text book, like we
all
>>>>>>>>> were.
>>>>>>>>> Just because you read something in a text book does not make
it
>>>>>>>>> truth.
>>>>>>>>> http://www.darwins-theory-of-evolution.com/ Maybe we could all
>>>>>>>>> stomach
>>>>>>>>> creationism if we called it a theory too. After all that is
what
>>>>>>>>> evolution is...just an unproven theory. There are equally as
many
>>>>>>>>> scientists out there who believe they have proven evolution is
>>>>>>>>> myth. It
>>>>>>>>> was not Darwin's brainstorm anyway.  He thought he could
further
>>>>>>>>> explain
>>>>>>>>> a centuries old belief; that life arose from non life and
>>>>>>>>> everything
>>>>>>>>> sprang from a common ancestor. Modern scientists say it was
that
>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>> amino acid or protein chain in the pool of "primordial ooze."
I
>>>>>>>>> like how
>>>>>>>>> one Nobel prize winner (Biology 1967?) put it:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "There are only two possibilities as to how life arose; one is
>>>>>>>>> spontaneous generation arising to evolution, the other is a
>>>>>>>>> supernatural
>>>>>>>>> creative act of God, there is no third possibility.
Spontaneous
>>>>>>>>> generation that life arose from non-living matter was
>>>>>>>>> scientifically
>>>>>>>>> disproved 120 years ago by Louis Pasteur and others. That
leaves us
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> only one possible conclusion, that life arose as a creative
act of
>>>>>>>>> God. I
>>>>>>>>> will not accept that philosophically because I do not want to
>>>>>>>>> believe in
>>>>>>>>> God, therefore I choose to believe in that which I know is
>>>>>>>>> scientifically
>>>>>>>>> impossible, spontaneous generation arising to evolution."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (Dr. George Wald, evolutionist, Professor Emeritus of Biology
at
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> University at Harvard, Nobel Prize winner in Biology.)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But the most interesting fact is that even Darwin himself
realized
>>>>>>>>> evolution was not workable.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "To suppose that the eye, with all its inimitable contrivances
for
>>>>>>>>> adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting
different
>>>>>>>>> amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and
chromatic
>>>>>>>>> aberration, could have formed by natural selection, seems, I
freely
>>>>>>>>> confess, absurd in the highest degree possible." (Charles
Darwin,
>>>>>>>>> "The
>>>>>>>>> origin of species by means of natural selection")
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed
which
>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>> not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight
>>>>>>>>> modifications, my theory would absolutely break down."
(Charles
>>>>>>>>> Darwin,
>>>>>>>>> "The Origin of Species")
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Often a cold shudder has run through me, and I have asked
myself
>>>>>>>>> whether
>>>>>>>>> I may have not devoted myself to a fantasy."  (Charles Darwin,
Life
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> Letters, 1887, Vol. 2, p. 229)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I could post a few hundred quotes from noted doctors and
scientists
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> try to "prove" evolution wrong or creation right. I could "do
my
>>>>>>>>> homework" as we say here on the list and cite actual findings,
but
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> is not necessary. Because to dismiss the possibility of God or
some
>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>> Intelligent Designer makes it easier to accept our notions
that it
>>>>>>>>> is ok
>>>>>>>>> to be a homosexual (and not allow me a choice when the schools
>>>>>>>>> teach this
>>>>>>>>> gargage to my kids while denying the right to learn about the
>>>>>>>>> theory of
>>>>>>>>> creation along with evolution) or that it should be a crime to
kill
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> tree, but ok to kill an unborn baby. Not to say everyone
believing
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> evolution is an athiest (or a Democrat), but you have made me
see
>>>>>>>>> this as
>>>>>>>>> a hinge factor in how I will vote....real issues aside.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Todd T
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Besides, it is not very PC to say we evolved (were "selected")
from
>>>>>>>>> apes.
>>>>>>>>> We don't want any of the apes that were not selected to be
made to
>>>>>>>>> feel
>>>>>>>>> inferior.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Steven Alm"
>>>>>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Praise Jesus, the Republicans are
>>>>>>>>> going to
>>>>>>>>> save us from the Republicans
>>>>>>>>> Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 13:11:17 -0500
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Ahh, so the "tolerant" lefty has a litmus test for religious
>>>>>>>>> beliefs."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes, I require that the candidates be sane, critical thinkers.
>>>>>>>>> Palin is
>>>>>>>>> obviously not. I wouldn't say that if she were a Catholic or a
>>>>>>>>> Lutheran
>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>> here's a woman who wants to stare down the whole scientific
>>>>>>>>> community and
>>>>>>>>> deny things like carbon 14 dating and declare that the heavens
and
>>>>>>>>> earth
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>> only a few thousand years old. You didn't just call ME an
>>>>>>>>> extremist, did
>>>>>>>>> you?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Brad, you left out the part of Kroon saying that his
parishioners
>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>> pray for the completion of the pipeline because at the end of
the
>>>>>>>>> world,
>>>>>>>>> folks will flock to Alaska as their final refuge.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I can't believe that was you quoting all that God stuff.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Slim
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 12:18 PM, Steven Alm wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>> "She's already demonstrated that she is fully capable of
>>>>>>>>>> separating her
>>>>>>>>>> personal beliefs from her duties."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Wouldn't it be better if she didn't have to?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 6:18 AM, Herb Parsons wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>> Ahh, so the "tolerant" lefty has a litmus test for religious
>>>>>>>>>>> beliefs.
>>>>>>>>>>> She's already demonstrated that she is fully capable of
>>>>>>>>>>> separating her
>>>>>>>>>>> personal beliefs from her duties. She vetoed a bill that
would
>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>> denied benefits to gay couples.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But, you extremists keep it up, I'm sure you'll find (or
make up)
>>>>>>>>>>> SOMETHING on her.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Steven Alm wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>> She's a creationist. Her Assembly of God stuff is a deal
breaker
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>> Religious extremism cannot be tolerated.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The most important legacy the president leaves is the
>>>>>>>>>>>> appointment of
>>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>> supreme court.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The next pres might appoint as many as three. If
Sarabaracuda
>>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>> her
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>> way,
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>> say goodbye to Roe V. Wade and hello to back-ally coat
hanger
>>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>> abortions.
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>> Slim
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Herb Parsons
>>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think it's funny that the candidate that was considered
as a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>> running
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mate for the Democratic choice a few years back, is now
being
>>>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>> touted as
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "more of the same". Keep trying though, you guys may find
>>>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>> works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What exactly makes Palin a "religious kook", that fact
that's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> she
>>>>>>>>>>>>> religious? I think your colors are beginning to show.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> petelargo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben, thanks for your post. As you may have noticed, there
is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                             
>>>>>>>>>>> dialogue
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the right-wing extremists. You are wrong, end of
discussion
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                             
>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idiot to boot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When John McCain won the nomination, Bush disappears
overseas.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                             
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>> RNC,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no Bush, no Cheney (and no mention of them). They know
it's a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                             
>>>>>>>>> failed
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> administration. Where were the solutions. Once again,
they are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                             
>>>>>>>>> trying
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> frame the campaign as an ideology argument rather than an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issues
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                             
>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Today on Face the Nation, "Sis Cum Ba and WHA-LAA",
McCain is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                             
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>> change
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidate and stated that he will end the incredible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> corruption in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Washington and the failed policies. John McCain has
re-defined
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                             
>>>>>>>>> whole
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level of flip-flopping on over two dozen key issues
within the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                             
>>>>>>>>> last
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>> eight
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years including his own authored bill that he was for and
now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                             
>>>>>>>>> against.
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I couldn't give a poop about the experience argument of
Palin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                             
>>>>>>>>>>> Obama.
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a waste of time. The entire
Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld-Rice-Rove,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> administration could be argued to be the most experienced
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                             
>>>>>>>>>>> administration
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the history of the White House. A huge amount of prior
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "executive
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience". For the first time in recent politics the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Republicans
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                             
>>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> power in the white house, judicial, house and senate. How
was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                             
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>> you?
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's one thing to drive a tractor trailer up our butts,
but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                             
>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>> start
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blowing on the horn while there're doing it, it's really
gone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> too
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                             
>>>>>>>>> far.
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A big thank you for the memories: the debt, the dead, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> twisting
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intelligence to "sell" us a war on a country that did not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attack
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                             
>>>>>>>>> us,
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good ol boy ineffectual cronyism, and finally the
shredding of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> constitution. With Palin we now we get to have another
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> religious
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                             
>>>>>>>>> kook
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> satisfy the so-called conservative extremist religious
right
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                             
>>>>>>>>>>> 'bridge'
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them into this administration and get money.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spending 5-10 billion dollars a month on Iraq and kissing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chinese
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                             
>>>>>>>>> ass
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (borrowing the money) of the most Marxist suppressive
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> government
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                             
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> planet at this time is a conservative value?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Finally, the biggest hypocrisy of all . That these
extremists
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                             
>>>>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that they and the republicans are the vanguards of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conservatism?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                             
>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> top key pillars of conservatism are less government and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> government
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                             
>>>>>>>>>>>>> intrusion
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and fiscal responsibility. The only administration that
walked
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                             
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>> talk
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 50 years was a Democrat that left Bush a 500 billion
dollar
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                             
>>>>>>>>> surplus.
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>> He
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>> blew
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> threw that in one year and it was prior to 9-11. And
there is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                             
>>>>>>>>>>> greater
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> government intrusion that being told what you can or
cannot do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                             
>>>>>>>>> with or
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>> put
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into your body. Palin wants privacy for her family
decisions,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                             
>>>>>>>>> she
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wants
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to legislate publicly what you should do with yours. No
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben Cittadino-2 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                             
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Dear Culture Warriors;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So....are we having fun yet?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First, I'd like to thank Richard and Slim for stepping
up to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> join
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                               
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Assault on the Citadel".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The bullets don't sting as much when the adversary's
fire is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                               
>>>>>>>>> spread
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> among more than one target.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the words first uttered by Gen. "Vinegar Joe"
Stillwell,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                               
>>>>>>>>>>> "illegitimi
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> non carborundum".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for Tootle, Brad, and Herb, you guys crack me up. I
posted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                               
>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obama
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only because I saw Tootle's post that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suggested anybody supporting Obama was either a marxist,
or a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                               
>>>>>>>>> farm
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>> animal.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What did he expect when he said that?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb, where was your outrage that Tootle would refer to
some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                               
>>>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>> fellow
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Rhodies" in such derogatry terms? Supporting Obama or
McCain
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> may turn out to be right or wrong, but if we debate
policy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                               
>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> engage in mere name-calling this "sailor's bar" could be
an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                               
>>>>>>>>>>> interesting
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> place.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Richard's "geezer" remarks are defensible on several
grounds.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                               
>>>>>>>>> First,
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was provoked. Second, he was defending ME.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Third, it was funny. Calling someone a "marxist" as
Tootle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> did is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                               
>>>>>>>>>>>>> several
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> magnitudes worse than gentle kidding of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "old fart" kind. Surely you see the difference.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The positions I tried to lay out as reasons some people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> support
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                               
>>>>>>>>> Obama
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended as an outline of ideology (as Slim noted),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an argument supporting any position. For example,
Herb,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                               
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pro-life and will probably vote for McCain/Palin in part
for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                               
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reason.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am pro-choice, pro-embryonic stem cell research and so
I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                               
>>>>>>>>>>> support
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obama/Biden in part for that reason. It is not hyperbole
to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                               
>>>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the policy differences that explain my choice. What I
know
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                               
>>>>>>>>> sure
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that marxism and "sheepiness" have nothing to do with
it. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                               
>>>>>>>>>>> thought
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about all of my positions on the issues I mentioned and
am
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                               
>>>>>>>>> completely
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prepared to explain and justify them. In Brad's oft'
repeated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                               
>>>>>>>>> mantra
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know I have "done my homework".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Enough for today. The games will be on soon.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben C. , s/v Susan Kay, Highlands, NJ
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
mailing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                               
>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                               
>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
mailing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> list go
>>>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
list
>>>>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
list
>>>>>>>>>>> go to
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
list go
>>>>>>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Be Yourself @ mail.com!
>>>>>>>>> Choose From 200+ Email Addresses
>>>>>>>>> Get a Free Account at www.mail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
list go
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
list go
>>>>>>>> to 
>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________ 
>>>>>>>>     
>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
go
>>>>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   
>>>>>>>     
>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
go to
>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   
>>>>>>     
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>         
>>>>>>             
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
go to
>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   
>>>>>     
>>>>>       
>>>>>           
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
to
>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>   
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
to
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>>>       
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
to
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>     
>
>   
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