[Rhodes22-list] Praise Jesus, the "evolutionists" are going to save us from the Republicans
elle
watermusic38 at yahoo.com
Wed Sep 10 14:50:13 EDT 2008
All this goes to a discussion of personal responsibility and forethought...but, by golly...we don't want to go there as it is NOT politically correct...and I don't, because I'd rather fight with my fax......(did get the scanner going...tough sucker, it was)
elle
We can't change the angle of the wind....but we can adjust our sails.
1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic" (Lady in Red)
--- On Wed, 9/10/08, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
> From: Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Praise Jesus, the "evolutionists" are going to save us from the Republicans
> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Date: Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 2:17 PM
> I'd say that'd be a bit extreme. Akin to telling a
> woman asking for an
> abortion that she'd need to be sterilized first, after
> having her eggs
> harvested.
>
> However, I wouldn't be a bit opposed to sterilization
> of men that refuse
> to pay child support.
>
>
> elle wrote:
> > Forced semen storage and then mass castration could
> end the abortion debate once and for all.
> >
> > elle
> >
> > We can't change the angle of the wind....but we
> can adjust our sails.
> >
> > 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic"
> (Lady in Red)
> >
> >
> > --- On Wed, 9/10/08, Ben Cittadino
> <bcittadino at dcs-law.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> From: Ben Cittadino <bcittadino at dcs-law.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Praise Jesus, the
> "evolutionists" are going to save us from the
> Republicans
> >> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> >> Date: Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 12:05 PM
> >> Herb,
> >>
> >> You raise an interesting legal point. Did you
> know that
> >> the right to use
> >> deadly force to defend one's property is
> different in
> >> the different states?
> >> In fact it changes in direct proportion to
> one's
> >> movement from northeast to
> >> southwest. In most northeastern states a person
> has a duty
> >> to retreat and
> >> not use deadly force to defend one's property,
> but as
> >> one moves southwest a
> >> person has more legal right to stand their ground
> and even
> >> use deadly force
> >> to defend their property. It's actually a
> fascinating
> >> study of the whole
> >> macho "code of the west" thing.
> >>
> >> I just can't do the abortion debate. Nobody
> ever
> >> changes anybody's mind on
> >> it. I think it just comes down to a society
> balancing very
> >> impotant
> >> competing interests. So far our society has
> decided that a
> >> woman's privacy
> >> right trumps the government's interest in
> protecting
> >> the life (or potential
> >> for life) of the not yet born up to the point of
> about
> >> 2/3rds of the way
> >> through the pregnancy. It's a judgment call.
> It seems
> >> reasonable enough to
> >> me.
> >>
> >> Ben, s/v Susan Kay, Highlands, NJ
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Psssst, Brad, don't tell anyone on here that
> already
> >> knows differently,
> >> but in spite of my personal religious beliefs, I
> believe
> >> that the issue
> >> should be left up to the states.
> >>
> >> Further, I think that local cities should be
> allowed to
> >> further
> >> restrict, within the confines of their state's
> charter
> >> and constitution,
> >> the matter. I believe that to be how we should
> operate on a
> >> lot of
> >> different issues.
> >>
> >> Did you know that in some states it's illegal
> to own a
> >> handgun, but in
> >> the GST (Great State of Texas), you not only can
> legally
> >> own one, you
> >> can shoot, and kill, someone who's stupid
> enough to try
> >> to take what is
> >> your property when you've got one of them
> handy.
> >>
> >> Brad Haslett wrote:
> >>
> >>> Herb,
> >>>
> >>> The nut cuttin' of the conversation is how
> much
> >>>
> >> should the federal
> >>
> >>> government be involved in personal decisions
> of
> >>>
> >> morality. I say, not
> >>
> >>> much. That should be left up to the states
> and the
> >>>
> >> locals. I grew up
> >>
> >>> in a dry township. Other people with other
> ideas
> >>>
> >> about that moved six
> >>
> >>> miles away. Everything is a trade-off. Roe v
> Wade was
> >>>
> >> an unnecessary
> >>
> >>> invasion of states rights. What certain groups
> >>>
> >> can't get legislated,
> >>
> >>> they try and get decided from the bench. The
> issue
> >>>
> >> that started this
> >>
> >>> thread was Gov. Palin's religious
> convictions.
> >>>
> >> The first bill she
> >>
> >>> vetoed was one that would strip health care
> benefits
> >>>
> >> from the gay
> >>
> >>> partners of Alaskan state employees. Her
> reasoning
> >>>
> >> and statements at
> >>
> >>> the time of the veto was that is was
> unconstitutional.
> >>>
> >> What greater
> >>
> >>> litmus test is there? The far lefts poster
> child yard
> >>>
> >> sign is molding
> >>
> >>> and wilting in the sunshine. We'll have
> this
> >>>
> >> argument another day
> >>
> >>> under another banner and with a different
> cheerleader.
> >>>
> >> This one
> >>
> >>> turned out to be an empty suit on too many
> other
> >>>
> >> issues.
> >>
> >>> Brad
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 4:34 PM, Herb Parsons
> >>>
> >> <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
> >>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> There is nothing wrong with society
> determining
> >>>>
> >> the "moral boundries"
> >>
> >>>> they wish to maintain. There is also
> nothing wrong
> >>>>
> >> with those moral
> >>
> >>>> boundries being subject to change as said
> society
> >>>>
> >> changes. In spite of
> >>
> >>>> my religious beliefs, I do not now want a
> >>>>
> >> theocracy, no have I ever.
> >>
> >>>> However, the notion that 5 men can forever
> dictate
> >>>>
> >> to a nation of
> >>
> >>>> millions what their moral boundry should
> be is
> >>>>
> >> tyranny. I do not want
> >>
> >>>> the feds pushing any agenda one way or the
> other,
> >>>>
> >> and that includes the
> >>
> >>>> federal judicial branch. I want the
> citizenry to
> >>>>
> >> make that choice.
> >>
> >>>> I know, I know, it kinda blows your
> "Herb
> >>>>
> >> wants his religion for
> >>
> >>>> everyone" nonsense, huh Michael?
> >>>>
> >>>> BTW, all of the above reflects my personal
> >>>>
> >> opinion. None of it intended
> >>
> >>>> to be perceived by an reader or observer
> as any
> >>>>
> >> type of fact, implied or
> >>
> >>>> otherwise. They are worth at least as much
> as the
> >>>>
> >> durability of the
> >>
> >>>> media in which they are made, and their
> only
> >>>>
> >> asserted value is that. All
> >>
> >>>> readers and/or observers are free, and
> even
> >>>>
> >> welcome, to ascribe to said
> >>
> >>>> beliefs, or simply write them off as so
> much
> >>>>
> >> bullshit.
> >>
> >>>> Oh, and Michael, you flatter yourself. I
> >>>>
> >> didn't just recently "realize"
> >>
> >>>> all of that. I DID make the absurd
> assumption that
> >>>>
> >> you recognized
> >>
> >>>> opinion when you saw it. Silly me.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Michael D. Weisner wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Todd,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I certainly never wanted to remove God
> from my
> >>>>>
> >> life. I, like Ben C.,
> >>
> >>>>> have
> >>>>> no problem with the coexistence of God
> and
> >>>>>
> >> science. I cannot understand
> >>
> >>>>> why
> >>>>> every group in this country (religious
> or
> >>>>>
> >> non-religious) feels that the
> >>
> >>>>> separation of church and state means
> that we
> >>>>>
> >> need to remove all traces
> >>
> >>>>> of
> >>>>> religion and culture from public
> places.
> >>>>>
> >> Since we can't offend anyone
> >>
> >>>>> by
> >>>>> celebrating our religious rituals, we
> must
> >>>>>
> >> remove all religion from
> >>
> >>>>> schools,
> >>>>> government and the public. I think
> that if we
> >>>>>
> >> remove all holidays,
> >>
> >>>>> ethnic
> >>>>> traditions, religious symbols, etc.
> the world
> >>>>>
> >> will be a pretty ugly
> >>
> >>>>> place.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I do, however, feel that religious
> beliefs
> >>>>>
> >> are very personal and no one
> >>
> >>>>> has
> >>>>> the right to impose them on others. I
> think
> >>>>>
> >> that this is what was meant
> >>
> >>>>> by
> >>>>> the separation of church and state, to
> >>>>>
> >> eliminate religious persecution.
> >>
> >>>>> How
> >>>>> is one to deal with the concept put
> forth by
> >>>>>
> >> some faiths that place the
> >>
> >>>>> responsibility for misdeeds by one on
> all of
> >>>>>
> >> society? What is the basis
> >>
> >>>>> for
> >>>>> the following statement from Todd:
> "Each
> >>>>>
> >> draws his line of good
> >>
> >>>>> conscience
> >>>>> to justify acts past, present, or
> future in
> >>>>>
> >> his or her own life (or
> >>
> >>>>> afterlife) - not to protect the legal
> >>>>>
> >> reproductive rights of every
> >>
> >>>>> random
> >>>>> Jane Doe." What, exactly, does
> it mean?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Mike
> >>>>> s/v Shanghai'd Summer ('81)
> >>>>> Nissequogue River, NY
> >>>>>
> >>>>> From: "Todd Tavares"
> >>>>>
> >> <sprocket80 at mail.com>Sent: Tuesday,
> September 09,
> >>
> >>>>> 2008
> >>>>> 4:43 PM
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Michael, It is just another
> example of
> >>>>>>
> >> taking God OR religion out of
> >>
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>> equation to ease our conscience.
> Excluding
> >>>>>>
> >> cases of rape, incest, etc.,
> >>
> >>>>>> the parents of the developing
> fetus;
> >>>>>>
> >> whether you consider it alive or
> >>
> >>>>>> not, had a choice and
> responsibility they
> >>>>>>
> >> chose not to exercise. Is
> >>
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>> knowledge and ability to perform
> surgical
> >>>>>>
> >> abortion the only thing that
> >>
> >>>>>> separates us from our animal urges
> and the
> >>>>>>
> >> apes we evolved from?
> >>
> >>>>>> Religious, Christian, Atheist, or
> Pagan;
> >>>>>>
> >> view videos and pictures of a
> >>
> >>>>>> "partial birth
> abortion"-- which
> >>>>>>
> >> the legal rights of the mother to
> >>
> >>>>>> choose, Clinton initially fought
> to try to
> >>>>>>
> >> preserve and even a
> >>
> >>>>>> civilized
> >>>>>> atheist would exclaim OH MY
> F'ing GOD
> >>>>>>
> >> and start thinking
> >>
> >>>>>> differently...even if they'd
> never
> >>>>>>
> >> admit it openly and risk
> >>
> >>>>>> contradicting
> >>>>>> their publicly espoused views.
> Each
> >>>>>>
> >> draws his line of good conscience
> >>
> >>>>>> to justify acts past, present, or
> future
> >>>>>>
> >> in his or her own life (or
> >>
> >>>>>> afterlife) - not to protect the
> legal
> >>>>>>
> >> reproductive rights of every
> >>
> >>>>>> random
> >>>>>> Jane Doe. Let's look in the
> mirror
> >>>>>>
> >> and stop lying to ourselves and
> >>
> >>>>>> each
> >>>>>> other here. (not a fact....just a
> thought)
> >>>>>>
> >> Todd T
> >>
> >>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>> From: "Michael D.
> Weisner"
> >>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email
> List"
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list]
> Praise
> >>>>>>
> >> Jesus, the "evolutionists" are
> >>
> >>>>>> going to save us from the
> Republicans
> >>>>>> Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 15:54:12
> -0400
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Herb,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> You state as fact:
> >>>>>> "... the individual's
> religious
> >>>>>>
> >> belifs (sic) involve yet another
> >>
> >>>>>> individual."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> You conclude:
> >>>>>> "You are advocating that a
> woman be
> >>>>>>
> >> allowed to kill another living
> >>
> >>>>>> human
> >>>>>> based on HER religious beliefs,
> not those
> >>>>>>
> >> of that living human."
> >>
> >>>>>> The "fact" is actually
> your
> >>>>>>
> >> opinion according to your religious
> >>
> >>>>>> beliefs that
> >>>>>> this is another human being. You
> then
> >>>>>>
> >> employ your religious beliefs
> >>
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>> close the argument in restating
> the
> >>>>>>
> >> premise "... of that living
> >>
> >>>>>> human."
> >>>>>> There is no logic to the
> argument. It is
> >>>>>>
> >> so only because you say it
> >>
> >>>>>> is so,
> >>>>>> and that is according to your
> religious
> >>>>>>
> >> beliefs. This is circular, at
> >>
> >>>>>> best.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I know that you can do better ...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Mike
> >>>>>> s/v Shanghai'd Summer
> ('81)
> >>>>>> Nissequogue River, NY
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> From: "Herb Parsons"
> Sent:
> >>>>>>
> >> Tuesday, September 09,
> >>
> >>>>>> 2008 3:06 PM
> >>>>>> > Resent away Michael, but
> what did I
> >>>>>>
> >> "present as fact"?
> >>
> >>>>>> >
> >>>>>> > And, beliefs aside, my
> reasoning is
> >>>>>>
> >> not "circular". I believe very
> >>
> >>>>>> much
> >>>>>> > in an individual's right
> to
> >>>>>>
> >> decide for themselves what they will
> >>
> >>>>>> and
> >>>>>> > will not do. However, when
> that
> >>>>>>
> >> decision directly affects another,
> >>
> >>>>>> > especially the life of
> another, than
> >>>>>>
> >> it is not the one individual's
> >>
> >>>>>> > choice to make.
> >>>>>> >
> >>>>>> >
> >>>>>> > Michael D. Weisner wrote:
> >>>>>> >> Herb,
> >>>>>> >>
> >>>>>> >> It always amazes me that
> you
> >>>>>>
> >> have no problem putting your beliefs
> >>
> >>>>>> and
> >>>>>> >> opinions in the form of
> fact in
> >>>>>>
> >> your arguments. The interesting
> >>
> >>>>>> thing is
> >>>>>> >> that the more I agree
> with the
> >>>>>>
> >> basic principles of these
> >>
> >>>>>> discussions, the
> >>>>>> >> more I resent your
> reasoning.
> >>>>>>
> >> While we may reach the same
> >>
> >>>>>> conclusion, the
> >>>>>> >> paths are significantly
> diverse.
> >>>>>> >>
> >>>>>> >> My opinions and beliefs
> aside, I
> >>>>>>
> >> think that in order to state "I
> >>
> >>>>>> would
> >>>>>> >> agree, except in this
> case, the
> >>>>>>
> >> individual's religious belifs
> >>
> >>>>>> (sic) involve
> >>>>>> >> yet another
> individual,"
> >>>>>>
> >> one must employ circular reasoning, thus
> >>
> >>>>>> defeating
> >>>>>> >> the value of the
> statement.
> >>>>>> >>
> >>>>>> >> Mike
> >>>>>> >> s/v Shanghai'd
> Summer
> >>>>>>
> >> ('81)
> >>
> >>>>>> >> Nissequogue River, NY
> >>>>>> >>
> >>>>>> >> From: "Herb
> Parsons"
> >>>>>>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 09,
> >>
> >>>>>> >> 2008 1:58 PM
> >>>>>> >>
> >>>>>> >>> I would agree,
> except in
> >>>>>>
> >> this case, the individual's religious
> >>
> >>>>>> belifs
> >>>>>> >>> involve yet another
> >>>>>>
> >> individual. You are advocating that a woman
> >>
> >>>>>> be
> >>>>>> >>> allowed to kill
> another
> >>>>>>
> >> living human based on HER religious
> >>
> >>>>>> beliefs, not
> >>>>>> >>> those of that living
> human.
> >>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>> >>> Rik Sandberg wrote:
> >>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>> >>>> Herb,
> >>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>> >>>> Well, here you
> go my
> >>>>>>
> >> friend. War is a terrible analogy.
> >>
> >>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>> >>>> IF we are going
> to have
> >>>>>>
> >> freedom OF religion, which would also
> >>
> >>>>>> include
> >>>>>> >>>> freedom FROM
> religion
> >>>>>>
> >> and the abortion issue is mostly decided
> >>
> >>>>>> on a
> >>>>>> >>>> religious (or
> >>>>>>
> >> non-religious, choice again) basis, it is not our
> >>
> >>>>>> place to
> >>>>>> >>>> expect anyone
> else to
> >>>>>>
> >> assume our religious beliefs.
> >>
> >>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>> >>>> Which leads us
> right
> >>>>>>
> >> back to; the gov't should have no voice in
> >>
> >>>>>> this at
> >>>>>> >>>> all.
> >>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>> >>>> Rik
> >>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>> >>>> Ayn Rand was a
> prophet -
> >>>>>>
> >> - it isn't my fault
> >>
> >>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>> >>>> Herb Parsons
> wrote:
> >>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>> I like your
> honest
> >>>>>>
> >> assessment on Palin, but I disagree about
> >>
> >>>>>> your
> >>>>>> >>>>> labeling of
> the
> >>>>>>
> >> position.
> >>
> >>>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>> If I say
> I'm not
> >>>>>>
> >> going to fight in a war, but it's OK if my
> >>
> >>>>>> government
> >>>>>> >>>>> attacks
> another, am
> >>>>>>
> >> I anti-war, or pro-war?
> >>
> >>>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>> Obviously,
> >>>>>>
> >> you'll not have an abortion, that would mean a
> male
> >>
> >>>>>> could be
> >>>>>> >>>>> neither pro
> or anti;
> >>>>>>
> >> however, anyone that believes the issue
> >>
> >>>>>> does not
> >>>>>> >>>>> affect me is
> wearing
> >>>>>>
> >> blinders.
> >>
> >>>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>> Rik Sandberg
> wrote:
> >>>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>> Herb,
> >>>>>> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>> Agreed.
> Palin
> >>>>>>
> >> claims no more religiousity (is that a word,
> >>
> >>>>>> sounds good)
> >>>>>> >>>>>> than
> either of
> >>>>>>
> >> the other three candidates involved. She has
> >>
> >>>>>> also shown
> >>>>>> >>>>>> that she
> can
> >>>>>>
> >> govern without forcing forcing those beliefs on
> >>
> >>>>>> her
> >>>>>> >>>>>>
> constituents.
> >>>>>> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>> On the
> abortion
> >>>>>>
> >> issue: Yep, she's against them, for her. So am
> >>
> >>>>>> I, for
> >>>>>> >>>>>> me. I am
> >>>>>>
> >> pro-choice. People just can't seem to get a
> handle on
> >>
> >>>>>> the idea
> >>>>>> >>>>>> that
> pro-choice
> >>>>>>
> >> doesn't mean anti or pro abortion. It means
> >>
> >>>>>> you should
> >>>>>> >>>>>> be able
> to make
> >>>>>>
> >> your own choice and let others make theirs,
> >>
> >>>>>> ie, mind
> >>>>>> >>>>>> your own
> >>>>>>
> >> business.
> >>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>> From
> what
> >>>>>>
> >> I've seen Palin, as governor of Alaska has
> been
> >>
> >>>>>> doing this
> >>>>>> >>>>>> too.
> >>>>>> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>> If I had
> my way,
> >>>>>>
> >> the federal gov't wouldn't be involved in
> >>
> >>>>>> abortion at
> >>>>>> >>>>>> all.
> >>>>>> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>> Rik
> >>>>>> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>> Ayn Rand
> was a
> >>>>>>
> >> prophet - - it isn't my fault
> >>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>> Herb
> Parsons
> >>>>>>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> Stan,
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>> What
> >>>>>>
> >> evidence do you have that would lead you to
> believe that
> >>
> >>>>>> Palin
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> would force
> >>>>>>
> >> her religious belief on anyone? My understanding
> >>
> >>>>>> is that
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> she's
> >>>>>>
> >> all for allowing the individual states to set the
> >>
> >>>>>> standard.
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> However,
> >>>>>>
> >> that's really beside the point. As you said,
> >>
> >>>>>> anyone's
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> pinpoint
> >>>>>> >>>>>>> of
> the exact
> >>>>>>
> >> time is a "religious" matter, or a
> matter of
> >>
> >>>>>> fath, thus
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> ANYONE
> >>>>>>
> >> setting pinpointed time would be them foisting
> their
> >>
> >>>>>> beliefs on
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> others.
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> Surely
> >>>>>>
> >> you're not advocating allowing the parents to
> decide
> >>
> >>>>>> at any
> >>>>>> >>>>>>> time
> >>>>>> >>>>>>> they
> choose,
> >>>>>>
> >> up to and including while the "fetus" is
> still
> >>
> >>>>>> in
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> college?
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>> stan
> wrote:
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> Slim,
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> As a
> >>>>>>
> >> member of your religious faith, and an ardent fan,
> if
> >>
> >>>>>> you really
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> plan
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> to skip
> >>>>>>
> >> voting (in effect voting for those whose direct
> >>
> >>>>>> religious
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> instructions got us into such a waste of our
> wealth and
> >>
> >>>>>> blood) I
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> would be
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> truly
> >>>>>>
> >> saddened. I don't think poorly of John's
> and
> >> Palin's
> >>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> inability to
> >>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> live up
> >>>>>>
> >> to their own family values, relying on their gods
> to
> >>
> >>>>>> forgive
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> them -
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> I worry
> >>>>>>
> >> about their health; a topic that seems to be
> >>
> >>>>>> forbidden to
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> address.
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> John's cheek is not like that from his
> prisoner days and
> >> his
> >>
> >>>>>> vp could
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> be our
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> leader
> >>>>>>
> >> without notice. Then where would this
> country's
> >>
> >>>>>> founding
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> desire
> >>>>>>
> >> for
> >>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> religious freedom end up? The first example is
> already on
> >>
> >>>>>> the table
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> and
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> Catholic
> >>>>>>
> >> Joe has it right: When life starts is a religious
> >>
> >>>>>> opinion
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> and
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> should
> >>>>>>
> >> not be one decided by government. You may feel
> life
> >>
> >>>>>> does not
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> start
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> until a
> >>>>>>
> >> breath is taken, the Jews count a number of months
> >>
> >>>>>> before the
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> start,
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> the
> >>>>>>
> >> Christens count from the moment the cells begin
> >>
> >>>>>> dividing.
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> Personally I
> >>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> don't think it starts until after college. If
> we allow a
> >>
> >>>>>> Palin to
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> call
> >>>>>>
> >> such
> >>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> shots we
> >>>>>>
> >> are on a path Jefferson and all those other smart
> >>
> >>>>>> guys
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> insisted
> >>>>>>
> >> on
> >>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> avoiding. McCain told the TV interviewer that if
> he had his
> >>
> >>>>>> way the
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> first
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> judge he
> >>>>>>
> >> would get rid of is Ginsberg and than went down
> the
> >>
> >>>>>> list of
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> her
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> kind.
> >>>>>>
> >> Once this is allowed to start (we already have
> allowed
> >>
> >>>>>> god
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> onto our
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> coins),
> >>>>>>
> >> god (hypocritically speaking) help us - or we will
> >>
> >>>>>> all,
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> eventually,
> >>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> become
> >>>>>>
> >> strong advocates of the second amendment.
> >>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> John, at
> >>>>>>
> >> least is a flip flopper so, if elected, would
> >>
> >>>>>> probably
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> revert
> >>>>>>
> >> to
> >>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> many of
> >>>>>>
> >> his reasonable positions. It is Palin I am fearful
> >>
> >>>>>> will give
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> us
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> even
> >>>>>>
> >> worse than another 8 years. (And this from a
> confessed
> >>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> womanizer.)
> >>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> stan/ec
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> .
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> -----
> >>>>>>
> >> Original Message ----- From: "Steven
> Alm"
> >>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> To:
> >>>>>>
> >> "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
> >>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> Sent:
> >>>>>>
> >> Tuesday, September 09, 2008 2:02 AM
> >>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> Subject:
> >>>>>>
> >> Re: [Rhodes22-list] Praise Jesus,the
> >>
> >>>>>> "evolutionists" are
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> going to
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> save us
> >>>>>>
> >> from the Republicans
> >>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> Todd,
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> I'm an atheist and I think Palin's a
> religious kook.
> >> And
> >>
> >>>>>> you're
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> right, I
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> won't vote for a religious kook. I haven't
> studied
> >> Darwin
> >>
> >>>>>> very much
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> (and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> applaud your research and quotes) but I don't
> think
> >> that's
> >>
> >>>>>> the only
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> rebuke
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>
> >> creationism. Since most of the species of plant
> and
> >>
> >>>>>> animal life
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> on
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> this
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> earth are in fact extinct, I'd call that
> >> "unintelligent
> >>
> >>>>>> design."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> You
> >>>>>>
> >> said there are only two possibilities as to how
> life
> >>
> >>>>>> started.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Are
> >>>>>>
> >> you
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> sure? How do you know this? What I know is that
> all
> >>
> >>>>>> religions
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> serve in
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> answering three questions: Where did we come from,
> how do
> >>
> >>>>>> we live
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> what
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> happens when we die? Myself, I've answered
> those
> >> questions
> >>
> >>>>>> to my
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> own
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> satisfaction and I don't need the church to
> tell me
> >>
> >>>>>> anything.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Slim
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On
> >>>>>>
> >> Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 5:32 PM, Todd Tavares
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> Slim, Wow! are you are going to vote for Obama
> because he
> >>
> >>>>>> is a
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> Marxist
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> or not vote for McCain just because Palin is a
> religious
> >>
> >>>>>> extremist?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> :^D
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> Glad you mentioned carbon dating. Carbon has been
> proven
> >>
> >>>>>> by many
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> scientists to be a wholly inaccurate method of
> dating. I
> >>
> >>>>>> am far
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> from
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> being a scientist...or a religious kook thinking
> the earth
> >>
> >>>>>> is only
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> a
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> couple of thousand of years old, but there is just
> as much
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> scientific
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> information out there to; while not proving
> creation is
> >>
> >>>>>> the truth,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> surely
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> proves evolution is improbable if not impossible.
> You
> >>
> >>>>>> are/were an
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> educator and were taught evolution from a text
> book, like
> >>
> >>>>>> we all
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> were.
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> Just because you read something in a text book
> does not
> >>
> >>>>>> make it
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> truth.
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> http://www.darwins-theory-of-evolution.com/ Maybe
> we could
> >>
> >>>>>> all
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> stomach
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> creationism if we called it a theory too. After
> all that
> >>
> >>>>>> is what
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> evolution is...just an unproven theory. There are
> equally
> >>
> >>>>>> as many
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> scientists out there who believe they have proven
> >>
> >>>>>> evolution is
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> myth. It
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> was not Darwin's brainstorm anyway. He thought
> he could
> >>
> >>>>>> further
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> explain
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> a centuries old belief; that life arose from non
> life and
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> everything
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> sprang from a common ancestor. Modern scientists
> say it
> >>
> >>>>>> was that
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> first
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> amino acid or protein chain in the pool of
> "primordial
> >>
> >>>>>> ooze." I
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> like how
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> one Nobel prize winner (Biology 1967?) put it:
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> "There are only two possibilities as to how
> life arose;
> >>
> >>>>>> one is
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> spontaneous generation arising to evolution, the
> other is
> >>
> >>>>>> a
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> supernatural
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> creative act of God, there is no third
> possibility.
> >>
> >>>>>> Spontaneous
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> generation that life arose from non-living matter
> was
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> scientifically
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> disproved 120 years ago by Louis Pasteur and
> others. That
> >>
> >>>>>> leaves us
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> with
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> only one possible conclusion, that life arose as a
> >>
> >>>>>> creative act of
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> God. I
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> will not accept that philosophically because I do
> not want
> >>
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> believe in
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> God, therefore I choose to believe in that which I
> know is
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> scientifically
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> impossible, spontaneous generation arising to
> >> evolution."
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> (Dr. George Wald, evolutionist, Professor Emeritus
> of
> >>
> >>>>>> Biology at
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> the
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> University at Harvard, Nobel Prize winner in
> Biology.)
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> But the most interesting fact is that even Darwin
> himself
> >>
> >>>>>> realized
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> evolution was not workable.
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> "To suppose that the eye, with all its
> inimitable
> >>
> >>>>>> contrivances for
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> adjusting the focus to different distances, for
> admitting
> >>
> >>>>>> different
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> amounts of light, and for the correction of
> spherical and
> >>
> >>>>>> chromatic
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> aberration, could have formed by natural
> selection, seems,
> >>
> >>>>>> I freely
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> confess, absurd in the highest degree
> possible."
> >> (Charles
> >>
> >>>>>> Darwin,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> "The
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> origin of species by means of natural
> selection")
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> "If it could be demonstrated that any complex
> organ
> >>
> >>>>>> existed which
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> could
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> not possibly have been formed by numerous,
> successive,
> >>
> >>>>>> slight
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> modifications, my theory would absolutely break
> down."
> >>
> >>>>>> (Charles
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> Darwin,
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> "The Origin of Species")
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> "Often a cold shudder has run through me, and
> I have
> >> asked
> >>
> >>>>>> myself
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> whether
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> I may have not devoted myself to a fantasy."
> (Charles
> >>
> >>>>>> Darwin, Life
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> and
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> Letters, 1887, Vol. 2, p. 229)
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> I could post a few hundred quotes from noted
> doctors and
> >>
> >>>>>> scientists
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> to
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> try to "prove" evolution wrong or
> creation right.
> >> I could
> >>
> >>>>>> "do my
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> homework" as we say here on the list and cite
> actual
> >>
> >>>>>> findings, but
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> that
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> is not necessary. Because to dismiss the
> possibility of
> >>
> >>>>>> God or some
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> other
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> Intelligent Designer makes it easier to accept our
> notions
> >>
> >>>>>> that it
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> is ok
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> to be a homosexual (and not allow me a choice when
> the
> >>
> >>>>>> schools
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> teach this
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> gargage to my kids while denying the right to
> learn about
> >>
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> theory of
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> creation along with evolution) or that it should
> be a
> >>
> >>>>>> crime to kill
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> a
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> tree, but ok to kill an unborn baby. Not to say
> everyone
> >>
> >>>>>> believing
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> in
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> evolution is an athiest (or a Democrat), but you
> have made
> >>
> >>>>>> me see
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> this as
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> a hinge factor in how I will vote....real issues
> aside.
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> Todd T
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> Besides, it is not very PC to say we evolved (were
> >>
> >>>>>> "selected") from
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> apes.
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> We don't want any of the apes that were not
> selected to
> >> be
> >>
> >>>>>> made to
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> feel
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> inferior.
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> From: "Steven Alm"
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Praise Jesus, the
> Republicans
> >>
> >>>>>> are
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> going to
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> save us from the Republicans
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 13:11:17 -0500
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> "Ahh, so the "tolerant" lefty has a
> litmus
> >> test for
> >>
> >>>>>> religious
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> beliefs."
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> Yes, I require that the candidates be sane,
> critical
> >>
> >>>>>> thinkers.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> Palin is
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> obviously not. I wouldn't say that if she were
> a
> >> Catholic
> >>
> >>>>>> or a
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> Lutheran
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> but
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> here's a woman who wants to stare down the
> whole
> >>
> >>>>>> scientific
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> community and
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> deny things like carbon 14 dating and declare that
> the
> >>
> >>>>>> heavens and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> earth
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> are
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> only a few thousand years old. You didn't just
> call ME
> >> an
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> extremist, did
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> you?
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> Brad, you left out the part of Kroon saying that
> his
> >>
> >>>>>> parishioners
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> should
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> pray for the completion of the pipeline because at
> the end
> >>
> >>>>>> of the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> world,
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> folks will flock to Alaska as their final refuge.
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> I can't believe that was you quoting all that
> God stuff.
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> Slim
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 12:18 PM, Steven Alm wrote:
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> "She's
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> already demonstrated that she is fully capable of
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> separating her
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> personal
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> beliefs from her duties."
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Wouldn't it
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> be better if she didn't have to?
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On
> Mon, Sep 8,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> 2008 at 6:18 AM, Herb Parsons wrote:
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Ahh, so the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> "tolerant" lefty has a litmus test for
> >>
> >>>>>> religious
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> beliefs.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> She's
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> already demonstrated that she is fully capable of
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> separating
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> her
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> personal
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> beliefs from her duties. She vetoed a bill that
> >>
> >>>>>> would
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> have
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> denied
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> benefits to gay couples.
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> But, you
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> extremists keep it up, I'm sure you'll
> find (or
> >>
> >>>>>> make up)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> SOMETHING
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> on her.
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Steven Alm
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> She's a creationist. Her Assembly of God stuff
> is a
> >>
> >>>>>> deal breaker
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> for
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> me.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> Religious extremism cannot be tolerated.
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> The
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> most important legacy the president leaves is the
> >>
> >> appointment of
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> the
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> supreme
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> court.
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> The
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> next pres might appoint as many as three. If
> >>
> >>>>>> Sarabaracuda
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> has
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> her
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> way,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> say
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> goodbye to Roe V. Wade and hello to back-ally coat
> >>
> >>>>>> hanger
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> abortions.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Slim
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> On Sun,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> Sep 7, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Herb Parsons
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> think it's funny that the candidate that was
> >>
> >>>>>> considered as a
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> running
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> mate for the Democratic choice a few years back,
> is
> >>
> >>>>>> now being
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> touted as
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> "more of the same". Keep trying though,
> you guys
> >> may
> >>
> >>>>>> find
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> something
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> works.
> >>
> >> What exactly makes Palin a "religious
> kook", that
> >> fact
> >>
> >>>>>> that's
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> she
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> religious? I think your colors are beginning to
> show.
> >>
> >> petelargo wrote:
> >>
> >> Ben, thanks for your post. As you may have
> noticed,
> >>
> >>>>>> there is
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> no
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> dialogue
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> with
> >>
> >> the right-wing extremists. You are wrong, end of
> >>
> >>>>>> discussion
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> and
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> your
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> an
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> idiot to boot.
> >>
> >> When John McCain won the nomination, Bush
> disappears
> >>
> >>>>>> overseas.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> At
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> the
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> RNC,
> >>
> >> no Bush, no Cheney (and no mention of them). They
> >>
> >>>>>> know it's a
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> failed
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> administration. Where were the solutions. Once
> again,
> >>
> >>>>>> they are
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> trying
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> frame the campaign as an ideology argument rather
> >>
> >>>>>> than an
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> issues
> >>
> >> discussion.
> >>
> >> Today on Face the Nation, "Sis Cum Ba and
> >> WHA-LAA",
> >>
> >>>>>> McCain is
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> now
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> the
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> change
> >>
> >> candidate and stated that he will end the
> incredible
> >>
> >> corruption in
> >>
> >> Washington and the failed policies. John McCain
> has
> >>
> >>>>>> re-defined
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> a
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> whole
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> new
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> level of flip-flopping on over two dozen key
> issues
> >>
> >>>>>> within the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> last
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> eight
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> years including his own authored bill that he was
> for
> >>
> >>>>>> and now
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> against.
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> I couldn't give a poop about the experience
> argument
> >>
> >>>>>> of Palin
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> vs
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Obama.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> It's
> >>
> >> a waste of time. The entire
> >>
> >>>>>> Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld-Rice-Rove,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> etc
> >>
> >> administration could be argued to be the most
> >>
> >>>>>> experienced
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> administration
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> the history of the White House. A huge amount of
> >>
> >>>>>> prior
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> "executive
> >>
> >> experience". For the first time in recent
> politics
> >>
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> Republicans
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> had
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> power in the white house, judicial, house and
> senate.
> >>
> >>>>>> How was
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> it
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> for
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> you?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> It's one thing to drive a tractor trailer up
> our
> >>
> >>>>>> butts, but
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> when
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> they
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> start
> >>
> >> blowing on the horn while there're doing it,
> it's
> >>
> >>>>>> really gone
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> too
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> far.
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> A big thank you for the memories: the debt, the
> dead,
> >>
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> twisting
> >>
> >> intelligence to "sell" us a war on a
> country that
> >> did
> >>
> >>>>>> not
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> attack
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> us,
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> good ol boy ineffectual cronyism, and finally the
> >>
> >>>>>> shredding of
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> the
> >>
> >> constitution. With Palin we now we get to have
> >>
> >>>>>> another
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> religious
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> kook
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> satisfy the so-called conservative extremist
> >>
> >>>>>> religious right
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> to
> >>
> >> 'bridge'
> >>
> >> them into this administration and get money.
> >>
> >> Spending 5-10 billion dollars a month on Iraq and
> >>
> >>>>>> kissing
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> chinese
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> ass
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> (borrowing the money) of the most Marxist
> suppressive
> >>
> >> government
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> on
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> planet at this time is a conservative value?
> >>
> >> Finally, the biggest hypocrisy of all . That these
> >>
> >>>>>> extremists
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> actually
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> think
> >>
> >> that they and the republicans are the vanguards of
> >>
> >> conservatism?
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> The
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> two
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> top key pillars of conservatism are less
> government
> >>
> >>>>>> and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> government
> >>
> >> intrusion
> >>
> >> and fiscal responsibility. The only administration
> >>
> >>>>>> that walked
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> that
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> talk
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> 50 years was a Democrat that left Bush a 500
> billion
> >>
> >>>>>> dollar
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> surplus.
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> He
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> blew
> >>
> >> threw that in one year and it was prior to 9-11.
> And
> >>
> >>>>>> there is
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> no
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> greater
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> government intrusion that being told what you can
> or
> >>
> >>>>>> cannot do
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> with or
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> put
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> into your body. Palin wants privacy for her family
> >>
> >>>>>> decisions,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> but
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> she
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> wants
> >>
> >> to legislate publicly what you should do with
> yours.
> >>
> >>>>>> No
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> thanks.
> >>
> >> Ben Cittadino-2 wrote:
> >>
> >> My Dear Culture Warriors;
> >>
> >> So....are we having fun yet?
> >>
> >> First, I'd like to thank Richard and Slim for
> >>
> >>>>>> stepping up to
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> join
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> the
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> "Assault on the Citadel".
> >>
> >> The bullets don't sting as much when the
> adversary's
> >>
> >>>>>> fire is
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> spread
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> out
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> among more than one target.
> >>
> >> In the words first uttered by Gen. "Vinegar
> Joe"
> >>
> >>>>>> Stillwell,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> "illegitimi
> >>
> >> non carborundum".
> >>
> >> As for Tootle, Brad, and Herb, you guys crack me
> up.
> >>
> >>>>>> I posted
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> about
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> Obama
> >>
> >> only because I saw Tootle's post that
> >>
> >> suggested anybody supporting Obama was either a
> >>
> >>>>>> marxist, or a
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> farm
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> animal.
> >>
> >> What did he expect when he said that?
> >>
> >> Herb, where was your outrage that Tootle would
> refer
> >>
> >>>>>> to some
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> of
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> his
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> fellow
> >>
> >> "Rhodies" in such derogatry terms?
> Supporting
> >> Obama
> >>
> >>>>>> or McCain
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> may turn out to be right or wrong, but if we
> debate
> >>
> >>>>>> policy
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> and
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> don't
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> engage in mere name-calling this
> "sailor's
> >> bar"
> >>
> >>>>>> could be an
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> interesting
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> place.
> >>
> >> Richard's "geezer" remarks are
> defensible on
> >> several
> >>
> >>>>>> grounds.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> First,
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> he
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> was provoked. Second, he was defending ME.
> >>
> >> Third, it was funny. Calling someone a
> "marxist"
> >> as
> >>
> >>>>>> Tootle
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> did is
> >>
> >> several
> >>
> >> magnitudes worse than gentle kidding of the
> >>
> >> "old fart" kind. Surely you see the
> difference.
> >>
> >> The positions I tried to lay out as reasons some
> >>
> >>>>>> people
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> support
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> Obama
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> were
> >>
> >> intended as an outline of ideology (as Slim
> noted),
> >>
> >> not an argument supporting any position. For
> >>
> >>>>>> example, Herb,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> you
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> are
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> pro-life and will probably vote for McCain/Palin
> in
> >>
> >>>>>> part for
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> that
> >>
> >> reason.
> >>
> >> I am pro-choice, pro-embryonic stem cell research
> >>
> >>>>>> and so I
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> will
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> support
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> Obama/Biden in part for that reason. It is not
> >>
> >>>>>> hyperbole to
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> point
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> out
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> the policy differences that explain my choice.
> What
> >>
> >>>>>> I know
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> for
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> sure
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> that marxism and "sheepiness" have
> nothing to do
> >>
> >>>>>> with it. I
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> have
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> thought
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> about all of my positions on the issues I
> mentioned
> >>
> >>>>>> and am
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> completely
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> prepared to explain and justify them. In
> Brad's oft'
> >>
> >>>>>> repeated
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> mantra
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> know I have "done my homework".
> >>
> >> Enough for today. The games will be on soon.
> >>
> >> Cheers!
> >>
> >> Ben C. , s/v Susan Kay, Highlands, NJ
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using
> the
> >>
> >>>>>> mailing
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> list
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> go
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> To
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> >>
> >>>>>> mailing
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> list go
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> to
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> To
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> >>
> >>>>>> mailing list
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> go
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> to
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> >>
> >>>>>> mailing list
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> go
> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using
> the
> >>
> >>>>>> mailing list go
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> --
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> Be Yourself @ mail.com!
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> Choose From 200+ Email Addresses
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> Get a Free Account at www.mail.com
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using
> the
> >>
> >>>>>> mailing list go
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> to
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> To
> >>>>>>
> >> subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> mailing
> >>
> >>>>>> list go
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> To
> >>>>>>
> >> subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> mailing
> >>
> >>>>>> list go
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> to
> >>>>>>
> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>> To
> >>>>>>
> >> subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> mailing
> >>
> >>>>>> list go to
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>>>>> >>>>>> To
> >>>>>>
> >> subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> mailing
> >>
> >>>>>> list go to
> >>>>>> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>>>>> >>>>> To
> >>>>>>
> >> subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> mailing
> >>
> >>>>>> list go to
> >>>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >>>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>>>>> >>>> To
> subscribe/unsubscribe
> >>>>>>
> >> or for help with using the mailing list
> >>
> >>>>>> go to
> >>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>>>>> >>> To
> subscribe/unsubscribe or
> >>>>>>
> >> for help with using the mailing list
> >>
> >>>>>> go to
> >>>>>> >>>
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>> >>
> >>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>>>>> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe
> or for
> >>>>>>
> >> help with using the mailing list
> >>
> >>>>>> >> go to
> >>>>>>
> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>>>>> >>
> >>>>>> >>
> >>>>>> >>
> >>>>>> >
> >>>>>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>>>>> > To subscribe/unsubscribe or
> for help
> >>>>>>
> >> with using the mailing list
> >>
> >>>>>> > go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>> >
> >>>>>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>>>>> >
> >>>>>> >
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for
> help with
> >>>>>>
> >> using the mailing list go
> >>
> >>>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Be Yourself @ mail.com!
> >>>>>> Choose From 200+ Email Addresses
> >>>>>> Get a Free Account at www.mail.com
> >>>>>>
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> >>>>>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for
> help with
> >>>>>>
> >> using the mailing list go to
> >>
> >>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help
> with
> >>>>>
> >> using the mailing list go to
> >>
> >>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with
> using
> >>>>
> >> the mailing list go to
> >>
> >>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with
> using the
> >>>
> >> mailing list go to
> >>
> >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using
> the mailing
> >> list go to
> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> View this message in context:
> >>
> http://www.nabble.com/Praise-Jesus%2C-the-%22evolutionists%22-are-going-to-save-us-from-the-Republicans-tp19382633p19414836.html
> >> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using
> the mailing
> >> list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> mailing list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > __________________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
> list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
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