[Rhodes22-list] anchoring
michael meltzer
mjm at michaelmeltzer.com
Thu Sep 18 22:50:12 EDT 2008
This reminds me of the debate from a few years ago. I love his technique for
setting an anchor but do have a few issues:
1)he likes floating line, I hate it, I consider it a fouling hazard for any
one marverering around him
2)he hates chain, I think is needed, you do not know what on that bottom or
in the mud, the near anchor end rubbing on a rock or on some "crap" in the
mud, the anchor will be underground in any heavy conditions.
3)the chain servers some other purposes, assuming 22 feet of 1/4 inch
a) It get the anchor on the bottom
b) it get the anchor on the bottom fast and gives a a few second
rest if you are moving so it ready to dig in
c) you know that your "helper" has put out about 50 feet of rode
without looking
d) it does keep the shaft angles down while setting, better change
to set and life saving if moving
e) anchor do not hold at 35 to 45 degrees(7:1 is a 12 degree angle),
that sound like the setting of the mud flaps on the fortress.
4)Bill likes undersized anchors, His use is more testament to his skill than
ANY BOATING RECOMANTIONS.
5)Bill love a very lite fortress, I do not.
a)it so lite without chain that most people beside bill will not be
able to set it while moving, it will sail like a kite
b)in any thing beside loose mud they have a habbit on setting on
only one point. Breaks out easy on wind change
c)it so lite and hard to set that it will not reset on it own, bad
habit of "scribing" a line on the bottom after a wind change
6)most people get the fortress because it brakes down, my view is your
should always have an an anchor ready to run.
7)I like anchors that reset on their own and fast, I use a spades and a
bruce clone.
8)the is a very good resion stan used a 12 pound danfouth anchor on the
rhodes22, it a good match for the boat.
My recommendation:
Basic:
100-150 feet of 3/8 NewEland 3 strand, it stores well, the boat rides on it
well(1/2 inch is to thick)
22 feet of 1/4 chain(old salts of one foot per length of boat, but at least
6 feet if you feel you need less)
The 12 pound steel danfouth on the bow on the rode, ready to run.
Better:
Leave the basic setup on the bow. And in a (anchor bag, bucket in the
laserert, Rubbermaid under the seat)
100-150 feet of 3/8 NewEland 3 strand, it stores well, the boat rides on it
well(1/2 inch is to thick)
22 feet of 1/4 chain(old salts of one foot per length of boat, but at least
6 feet if you feel you need less)
A bruce/spade/delta/etc.., a quick set/reseting anchor that fit the storage
space you are using. Use this setup most of the time.
-mjm
PS. Sorry bill I know you are passionate about this, and I am not trying to
get on your case, my concern is people without your skill set might find
themselves in trouble.
-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 5:57 PM
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
Rik,
At great expense, and with considerable effort, I secured 3 20 foot
lengths of 3/8 chain to 3 trees in my yard. I then suspended my 4000
pound boat from the chain. The 3 chains each created a line, straight
as an arrow. What is your point?
My point is that you don't need chain to pull a 2 1/2 lb anchor; and
that the design of the anchor is such that with nothing more than a rope
and the wind, you can drive that anchor into many bottoms with enough
force so that it will hold a 4000 lb. boat in place in most weather
conditions.
Bill Effros
Rik Sandberg wrote:
> Bill,
>
> You like no chain. Others do, here's why.
>
> Chain is heavy, you're right. Take a 20 foot chain (5/16 or 3/8) and go
> out in your yard (I assume you have a yard). Tie one end of the chain
> to a tree. Now go to the other end of the chain and try to pull that
> chain out so it makes a straight line. Bet you can't.
>
> As the boat pulls on a chain or partial chain rode, it has to lift the
> weight of the chain as the rode tightens. This slows the boat
> considerably before the rode becomes taut. A heavy chain rode makes
> quite a good shock absorber.
>
> I'd agree that feeling the bottom and setting an anchor is surely
> tougher with a heavy chain rode.
>
> And yeah, if one is just dumping his chain on top of his anchor, I guess
> he's likely to get the results he deserves.
>
> Rik
>
> Ayn Rand was a prophet - - it isn't my fault
>
>
>
> Herb Parsons wrote:
>
>> Bill will continue to say this is nonsense, and I'm not going to say
>> he's wrong. I AM going to say I think he's wrong. The coast guard
>> captain's class I took went over this, and disagrees with him. Sometimes
>> CG folks continue to do things based on "tradition", but I think in this
>> case, they knew what they were teaching.
>>
>> Bill Effros wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Rob,
>>>
>>> You need chain if your anchor is so heavy you can't pull it up by hand.
>>> Then you need a windlass. The windlasses destroy rope -- they work best
>>> on chain. Everybody makes a lot of money by suggesting that you anchor
>>> better if you have a chain rode, but that is nonsense, and the enormous
>>> weight of the chain in the bow totally throws off the balance of boats.
>>>
>>> In the process, people start drawing diagrams and providing pseudo
>>> scientific explanations that make absolutely no sense when you start to
>>> think about them.
>>>
>>> Then somebody comes up with the 22 feet of chain on the 22 foot boat
>>> rode rule. Which also makes absolutely no sense.
>>>
>>> A modern anchor is not like a cinderblock or an engine block. It does
>>> not just sit on the bottom, it digs in like a railroad spike, and is
>>> designed so it can be easily released by changing the angle of the rode
>>> from the surface. Adding weight does not help it in any way. Modern
>>> anchors are designed to be pulled at specific angles -- mostly around
>>> 45 degrees -- which is what the 7:1 scope accomplishes. Chain sitting
>>> on the bottom defeats the angle of the scope relative to the anchor. It
>>> is counter-productive.
>>>
>>> If you want more weight on your anchor, get a heavier anchor. But there
>>> is no need to do so. A 2 1/2 lb guardian anchor, properly set, will
>>> hold you in place forever. Your rope rode will withstand far more load
>>> than the fittings on your boat.
>>>
>>> Bill Effros
>>>
>>>
>>> Lowe, Rob wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Bill,
>>>> So why does everyone (well, most everyone) suggest using chain on the
>>>> rode? - rob
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 10:59 AM
>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>>>>
>>>> Ben,
>>>>
>>>> In order to set the anchor you must put tension on it. This pulls the
>>>> rode taut. When there is no wind or current, the rode will lie flat on
>>>> the bottom, or float to the surface if it is a floating rode. But it
is
>>>>
>>>> not holding the boat in place.
>>>>
>>>> What most people call "dragging the anchor" is usually "dragging the
>>>> chain". If you fail to set your anchor -- which you will fail to set
>>>> properly if you never draw the rode taut -- you can drag the chain all
>>>> over the place, without ever properly setting the anchor. If you draw
>>>> the rode taut and properly set the anchor it just won't drag.
>>>>
>>>> A very small anchor can be used to hold a very large boat in place if
>>>> the anchor is properly set. It is much easier to set an anchor with an
>>>> all rope rode. The chain portion of the rode does not change the angle
>>>> of pull.
>>>>
>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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