[Rhodes22-list] Rhodes Crew Gear

BenCittadino bencittadino at gmail.com
Sat Aug 1 11:05:56 EDT 2009


Michael;

Thanks for the prompt response. Between your info and Rummy's I should be
able to accomplish my mission. My crew thanks you. 
Fair Winds, 

BenCittadino

MichaelMeltzer wrote:
> 
> Yes, we you to have the sample picture, have to dig it up. It go back a
> while, the quick answer is Rummy(with a big thank you) paid a fee to have
> land end "enter it into their system", once it in their system  any one
> can
> order it up by using the logo number. The deal is you order from the logo
> catalog(small one that company use) and lands end would add small
> embroider
> fee to put the logo on, hats/shirts/tots, you name it, also they had a low
> minimum order size that was only like 5-10 pieces so it was simple to put
> it
> together(1-3 people ordering was enough), pretty sure you can add more
> "text" like boat name etc....(they will charge I think :-) also they good
> stuff and they took care of the hassle of fulfillment(as in no one trying
> to
> chase down list members for their check/size returns/etc...) 
> 
> -mjm
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of BenCittadino
> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 9:42 PM
> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rhodes Crew Gear
> 
> 
> Michael M and/or Rummy and/or Whomever (Whoever?...whatever): 
> 
> Your reference to a Rhodes logo comes at an interesting time for me. I was
> thinking about ordering up some gift "crew member" polo shirts for my kids
> and grandkids using a generic sailboat logo of some kind embroidered on
> them
> along with the name of my boat.  I have now noticed the "snazzy" Rhodes
> Logo
> on the Rhodes' Owners web page. Is that the logo you are talking about?
> Who
> does that logo belong to? Whose permission do I need to use it on my
> shirts?
> If it is already on shirts sold by Lands End can they produce custom
> shirts
> with my boat name? Your feedback would be appreciated.
> 
> BenCittadino
> SV Susan Kay ('93 recycled '08)
> Highlands, NJ
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> R22RumRunner wrote:
>> 
>> Michael,
>>  
>>  
>> Yes, they still have the logo. I have the information on a different  
>> computer. I will send it to you later.
>>  
>> Rummy
>>  
>>  
>> In a message dated 7/30/2009 9:22:32 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
>> mjm at michaelmeltzer.com writes:
>> 
>> Is the  rhodes22 logo still on file with lands end? Rummy you remember or 
>> one  else?
>> 
>> -mjm
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:  rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org 
>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]  On Behalf Of Arthur H.
>> Czerwonky
>> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 12:23  PM
>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rhodes  Promotions
>> 
>> Deena,
>> 
>> Do you think an inscribed ball point, one  worth keeping and using, would 
>> make sense?  We just need to 'blue sky'  this show...
>> 
>> I stitched a miniature sail bag once, it was made of  actual sailcloth
>> and
> 
>> was embroidered.  Really quality you wouldn't pitch  in file 13.  Maybe
>> an
> 
>> embossed key chain with a small fiberglass piece  (of hull) as a hanger.  
>> There must be soms scrap around the GB  facility.  " You have a small
>> part
>> of 
>> the boat, we can deliver the rest  in a few months."  Let's stretch our 
>> imagination over Stan  (SOS)!
>> 
>> Art
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>From:  captainpy at comcast.net
>>>Sent: Jul 29, 2009 4:56 PM
>>>To:  rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Rhodes  Promotions
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Stan!!!!!!!!     
>>>
>>>How about a Rhodes 22 T-shirt That says "Ask me about my  Rhodes"  )On
one
> 
>> side a picture and on the other GB's web address?  
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Deena AKA Captain Py  
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>----- Original Message -----  
>>>From: rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org 
>>>To:  rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org 
>>>Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 12:00:39 PM  GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern 
>>>Subject: Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 1931,  Issue 1 
>>>
>>>Send Rhodes22-list mailing list submissions to  
>>>        rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org  
>>>
>>>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit  
>>>         http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list 
>>>or, via email,  send a message with subject or body 'help' to 
>>>       rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org 
>>>
>>>You can reach the  person managing the list at 
>>>         rhodes22-list-owner at rhodes22.org 
>>>
>>>When replying, please edit  your Subject line so it is more specific 
>>>than "Re: Contents of  Rhodes22-list digest..." 
>>>
>>>
>>>Today's Topics:  
>>>
>>>   1. Re: Stuff that works - pest control solutions  (Jim Connolly) 
>>>   2. Re: Fw:  general boat's dilema  (Arthur H. Czerwonky) 
>>>   3. Re: general boat's complaint  (continued) (stan) 
>>>   4. Re: general boat's complaint  (continued) (stan) 
>>>   5. Re: general boat's complaint /in  all fairness (Lou Rosenberg) 
>>>   6. Re: general boat's  complaint /in all fairness 
>>>      (Arthur H. Czerwonky)  
>>>   7. Re: general boat's complaint /in all fairness (Lowe,  Rob) 
>>>   8. Yellowstone Lake, Jackson Lake Sailing (Arthur H.  Czerwonky)  
>>>
>>>
>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------  
>>>
>>>Message: 1 
>>>Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 22:01:17 -0400  
>>>From: "Jim Connolly" <jbconnolly at comcast.net> 
>>>Subject:  Re: [Rhodes22-list] Stuff that works - pest control solutions 
>>>To:  "'The Rhodes 22 Email List'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>  
>>>Message-ID: <200907290201.n6T21ZTY022293 at raeid23.raenet.com>  
>>>Content-Type: text/plain;         charset="us-ascii" 
>>>
>>>I had hornets and wasps in the coaming  right before launch, so I needed
a
> 
>>>fast solution.    
>>>
>>>I found a non-toxic wasp killer spray that is based on mint  oil ("poison 
>>>free" from Victor Pest Control).  It took a whole  can, but seemed to 
>> work. 
>>>The smell repelled or confused returning  wasps, and those that were home 
>>>when I sprayed (at least some of them)  died. 
>>>
>>>Jim Connolly 
>>>s/v Inisheer 
>>>   
>>>
>>>-----Original Message----- 
>>>From:  rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org  
>>>[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of John Lock  
>>>Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 2:29 PM 
>>>To: Rhodes 22  
>>>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Stuff that works - pest control solutions  
>>>
>>>Last year I had a couple of pest problems that many people  responded too 
>>>with helpful suggestions.  Here's what my results  were - 
>>>
>>>1) Problem - spider webs in the rigging (especially  masthead fly) 
>> Solution - 
>>>WD40.  I had the mast down early this  spring to fix several things.  
>> Before 
>>>raising again, I sprayed  WD40 liberally on the masthead, Windex, VHF 
>>>antenna, and diamond  stays.  So far (5 months 
>>>later) not a single web!  Still get  them down lower where I didn't
spray,
> 
>> so 
>>>we know the spiders are still  there.  But they don't want to (or can't) 
>>>start webs on the WD40  treated portion. 
>>>
>>>2) Problem - paper wasps building nests under  the cockpit coaming 
>> Solution - 
>>>clothes drier sheets.  Middle of  last summer I stapled a bunch of drier 
>>>sheets into the wood backing up  under the coaming on both sides.  No
wasp
> 
>>>nests have appeared in  almost a year now.  I see some more wasp activity 
>>>now, so I  suspect it's time to renew the sheets.  But that's a cheap and
> 
>>>effective control. 
>>>
>>>Now if only I could figure out what  to do about the ants coming aboard 
>> from 
>>>shore....  
>>>
>>>Cheers! 
>>>John Lock 
>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  
>>>s/v Pandion - '79 Rhodes 22 
>>>Lake Sinclair, GA  
>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  
>>>
>>>__________________________________________________ 
>>>To  subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to  
>>>http://www.rhodes22.org/list  
>>>__________________________________________________  
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>------------------------------  
>>>
>>>Message: 2 
>>>Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 09:31:43 -0400 (EDT)  
>>>From: "Arthur H. Czerwonky" <czerwonky at earthlink.net>  
>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Fw:  general boat's dilema  
>>>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>  
>>>Message-ID: 
>>>         
>> <16092871.1248874303875.JavaMail.root at elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
> 
>>>         
>>>Content-Type: text/plain;  charset=UTF-8 
>>>
>>>John, 
>>>
>>>Welcome aboard the list  and your involvement.  This fleet is strong for 
>> the mix of its skippers  as well an exceptional boat.  If you can come to
>> the 
>> show you'll have a  rather rare opportunity to meet many of them as we
>> have 
>> a get-together in a  nearby restaurant, I can't remember what day that
>> will 
>> be this year - maybe we  should take a poll.  C'mon down and enjoy!  You 
>> will also see one of  the most exceptional sailboat displays in the
>> country.  
>> Lee may have a  handle on what is cooking locally, or Mary Lou and Fred
>> may 
>> know.  We  have alot of skippers in the North Chesapeake environs, let's 
>> show the  flag.  BTW, is there an R22 burgee? 
>>>
>>>Another option we  could use in helping GB is to followup on inquiries on 
>> the Rhodes from shows,  calls, or curious prospects we may meet as our 
>> marinas.  If local owners  are informed about such prospects from Stan or
>> other 
>> owners, they could be  invited out on a sail or into a conversation about
>> our 
>> boat, maybe about their  boat and/or sailing interests.  We get random 
>> requests from wannabes,  maybe a more proactive initiative on our part,
>> done 
>> tastefully, would develop  into prospects for Stan.  He can suggest
>> names,
> 
>> approach, interests  selectively to get the ball/tide rolling.  A passive 
>> approach will not  enhance sales prospects for GB. 
>>>
>>>I share your past interest in  the Mariner (#1607) and the O'Day boats 
>> (222).  I haven't seen much  racing interest in our skippers, but welcome 
>> correction if it is due.   Involvement in the racing is alot of fun. 
>> Stan
> 
>> suggested a strictly  racing R22 a few years ago, maybe to be revived. 
>> Are you 
>> IMF (probably)  or Conventional?  What size Genny?  Have you raced out of 
>> Brant  Beach, or is it mostly a cruising venue?  Which motor have you
>> preferred? 
>>  
>>>
>>>We welcome your involvement, John, and look forward to your  reply. 
>>>
>>>Art 
>>>s/v Mary Jane 
>>>Hartwell and St Pete  
>>>
>>>
>>>--Original Message----- 
>>>>From: John  <johnrowland at optonline.net> 
>>>>Sent: Jul 28, 2009 9:50 PM  
>>>>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>  
>>>>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Fw:  general boat's dilema  
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>----- Original Message -----  
>>>>From: "John" <johnrowland at optonline.net> 
>>>>To:  <rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org> 
>>>>Sent: Tuesday, July 28,  2009 9:01 PM 
>>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's dilema  
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>I have submitted one or two messages  to the list, but would like to
get
> 
>>>>>more involved.  I  purchased a 1989 Rhodes22 about 1 year ago.  I have 
>> raced  
>>>>>Mariners years ago, owned a few O'Days, and never found a boat  that I 
>> enjoy 
>>>>>more than this one.  Heaven forbid General  Boats has problems.  There 
>> is no 
>>>>>owner loyalty, or  construction quality (or--even more 
>> important--customer  
>>>>>service) that compares with this company.  While I  probably cannot 
>> attend 
>>>>>the Annapolis Show, I need to know what  I (and other loyal owners) can 
>> do 
>>>>>to keep this company strong.  
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have been amazed at the discussions on  this list (with the
>>>>> exception
> 
>> of 
>>>>> the political issues  regarding the last election).  My goodness,
>>>>> where
> 
>>>>> else  can I learn about how to sail more effectively and fix whatever  
>>>>> problems I have on the boat.  I do not call a customer  service number 
>> that 
>>>>> keeps me on hold for hours--I talk to the  owner of the company!! 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I will not get  involved in discussions regarding royalties, but do 
>> think 
>>>>>  that each of us owes Stan some support in keeping this boat alive.  
>>>>> 
>>>>> I am actually in a slip next to a Hunter 40,  and I am happier with 
>> this 
>>>>> boat. 
>>>>>  
>>>>> I read a lot of e-mails from individuals who offer  suggestions about 
>> other 
>>>>> members issues and questions.   What better support canone get than 
>> this? 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I  keep the boat at a slip at the Brant Beach Yacht Club in Brant 
>> Beach,  
>>>>> New Jersey and look forward to meeting other owners in the  area. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> John 
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Rick"  <sloopblueheron at gmail.com> 
>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email  List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> 
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July  28, 2009 7:24 PM 
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's  dilema 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> $1.97  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 2:21 PM,  Arthur H. Czerwonky < 
>>>>>> czerwonky at earthlink.net>  wrote: 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Rick,  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Good idea, buddy!   Somehow to add a unique personal touch.  I would 
>> add,  
>>>>>>> however, that Mary Lou really does not need to dance  on table tops 
>> at 
>>>>>>> the 
>>>>>>>  Annapolis show.  Fred,  Pleassse! 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> I agree with the blazers, but, as we are in  shoestring mode, what 
>> about 
>>>>>>> a  
>>>>>>> Hanes T-shirt,  and of course, hospitality hot  dogs with lots of 
>> mustard 
>>>>>>> and  
>>>>>>> relish.  Seriously, I embroidered some nice  looking T-shirts for
>>>>>>> the
> 
>> '07 
>>>>>>> show, different color  each day, some were 'Name, and rhodes22.com', 
>> and 
>>>>>>>  some were 'name, boomroom, rhodes22.com', each comma'd section
>>>>>>> above
> 
>> the  
>>>>>>> other.  They were noticed by our visitors, never  a comment or 
>> compliment 
>>>>>>> otherwise.  You might  have to get used to it... rhoadies are tough. 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> Let's gel some more ideas for Stan to use.  At  least it engages the 
>>>>>>> imagination of the smart cookies  in our magnificent Rhodes fleet. 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> No commissions or royalty this time either,  guys.  What do you 
>> charge, 
>>>>>>> Rick?  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Art 
>>>>>>>  s/v Mary Jane 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- 
>>>>>>>  >From: Rick <sloopblueheron at gmail.com> 
>>>>>>>  >Sent: Jul 28, 2009 2:00 PM 
>>>>>>> >To: The Rhodes 22  Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> 
>>>>>>>  >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's dilema  
>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>> >Art,  
>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>> >Using owners at  shows sounds like a good idea.  Carver has success 
>> with  
>>>>>>> that 
>>>>>>> >at the Cleveland  show, dressing everyone up the same way in blue 
>>>>>>>  >blazers. 
>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>> >I  doubt any mass media advertising would have payback.  Since all 
>> the  
>>>>>>> major 
>>>>>>> >sailing magazines  have been pushing for so long the Catalina wave 
>> that 
>>>>>>>  >you 
>>>>>>> >start at 22 feet and buy up from there, a  GBI ad would be swamped. 
>>>>>>> >Maybe  
>>>>>>> >direct mail to long-time owners on state and  Coast Guard sailboat 
>>>>>>> >registration lists, pushing  the R22 as a quality downsize option? 
>>>>>>> >  
>>>>>>> >Rick 
>>>>>>> >  
>>>>>>> >On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Arthur H.  Czerwonky < 
>>>>>>> >czerwonky at earthlink.net> wrote:  
>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>> >> John, Rob,  
>>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>>> >> You may  recall that Stan proposed a stripped down version, call 
>> it a  
>>>>>>> racing 
>>>>>>> >> model, on  the list a few years ago, and although I expressed 
>> interest  
>>>>>>> >> in 
>>>>>>> >> this  new boat option to him, maybe others too, no further 
>> information  
>>>>>>> was 
>>>>>>> >> provided to my  knowledge.  Back at that time Stan expressed his 
>>>>>>>  >> ability 
>>>>>>> to 
>>>>>>> >>  produce, and now maybe he will further reconsider and tell us 
>> more  
>>>>>>> >> about 
>>>>>>> >> what  he had in mind.  I still am interested, speaking for myself 
>> as a  
>>>>>>> >> potential buyer.  I will watch for any  response.  Did anyone get 
>>>>>>> detailed  
>>>>>>> >> information on this boat?  
>>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>>> >> I have  suggested the value of baseline ad exposure.  If nothing 
>> else,  
>>>>>>> >> targeted reinforcement to the boat show  displays that are so 
>>>>>>> >> important.  
>>>>>>> >>  Maybe followup visits by experienced  skippers.  I have been
>>>>>>> told
> 
>> by 
>>>>>>> >> one  
>>>>>>> of 
>>>>>>> >> our newer  skippers that my 'hot dog hospitality' aboard Mary
>>>>>>> Jane
> 
>> at  
>>>>>>> >> the 
>>>>>>> '07  
>>>>>>> >> show tipped the sale toward his boat  purchase with him and his 
>> wife. 
>>>>>>>  BTW,  
>>>>>>> >> no commission provided or requested.   The presence of skippers
>>>>>>> at
> 
>> the 
>>>>>>> show  
>>>>>>> >> is valuable - a third party evaluation of  their own boat, and 
>> with 
>>>>>>> >> 'no  
>>>>>>> axe 
>>>>>>> >> to  grind'.  Consider it for yourself in support of Stan, as I
>>>>>>> did
> 
>>  
>>>>>>> >> twice. 
>>>>>>>  >>  You would have one very positive impression of how GB and a  
>> huge 
>>>>>>> >> number 
>>>>>>> of  
>>>>>>> >> other boat makers reach their  customers.  Our skippers who are
>>>>>>> so
> 
>>>>>>> willing to  
>>>>>>> >> give demos, whether at shows or not, are  such valuable 
>> ambassadors 
>>>>>>> >> for  
>>>>>>> GB. 
>>>>>>> >>  Having  done it a number of times, it is really fun as well as 
>> being  
>>>>>>> >> productive.  Try it, you'll like  it!  Let's be specific - Can 
>> some of 
>>>>>>> you  
>>>>>>> >> skipper demos at Annapoli!  
>>>>>>> >>  s or St Pete or elsewhere?  
>>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>>> >> Cutting to  the chase, who has some real connections to options 
>> and  
>>>>>>> selling 
>>>>>>> >>  /advertising connections that could help get Stan and GB out of 
>> this  
>>>>>>> 'black 
>>>>>>> >> hole' that  the company appears to be in?  It could be just a few
> 
>>>>>>> positive 
>>>>>>> >> levers to  pull that would enable better results, even in our 
>> current  
>>>>>>> puuuny 
>>>>>>> >>  economy.  Who is willing to pen letters of endorsement to  
>>>>>>> prospects/suspects 
>>>>>>> >>  that could tip the scales, one by one.   Time to get the horses 
>> out  
>>>>>>> >> of 
>>>>>>> the  
>>>>>>> >> barn, guys. 
>>>>>>>  >> 
>>>>>>> >> Like Mark Twain or someone else  once said, let's get the P in
>>>>>>> our
> 
>>>>>>> >> Pot!  
>>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>>> >>  Respectfully, 
>>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>>>  >> Art 
>>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>>>  >> -----Original Message----- 
>>>>>>> >>  >From: John Shulick <jsbudda at verizon.net> 
>>>>>>>  >> >Sent: Jul 28, 2009 11:02 AM 
>>>>>>> >>  >To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org 
>>>>>>> >>  >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint 
>> (continued)  
>>>>>>> >> > 
>>>>>>> >> >  
>>>>>>> >> >Rob, 
>>>>>>> >>  > 
>>>>>>> >> >Yep that pretty much covers it. Now  what would the price point 
>> be 
>>>>>>> >> >for  
>>>>>>> such 
>>>>>>> >> a  
>>>>>>> >> >boat? I have the origional literature  that came with my 71 and 
>> you 
>>>>>>> should  
>>>>>>> >> >see that show package special price!!!  
>>>>>>> >> > 
>>>>>>> >>  >John S. 
>>>>>>> >> > 
>>>>>>>  >> > 
>>>>>>> >> >Rob Lowe wrote:  
>>>>>>> >> >> 
>>>>>>> >>  >> Drop the IMF, ditch the head, the water tank, the fancy motor
> 
>>>>>>> >> >> lift, 
>>>>>>> and  
>>>>>>> >> >> re-model the interior?  Now  you have my 1976 boat! I do have 
>>>>>>> >> >>  battery 
>>>>>>> >> >> though. - rob  
>>>>>>> >> >> 
>>>>>>> >>  >> 
>>>>>>> >> >> -----Original Message-----  
>>>>>>> >> >> From:  rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org 
>>>>>>> >> >>  [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of John
> 
>>>>>>> Shulick 
>>>>>>> >> >>  Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 7:52 AM 
>>>>>>> >>  >> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org 
>>>>>>> >>  >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint 
>> (continued)  
>>>>>>> >> >> 
>>>>>>> >>  >> 
>>>>>>> >> >> Rick,  
>>>>>>> >> >> 
>>>>>>> >>  >> I see your point clearly on the subject but I also see Davids 
>> idea  
>>>>>>> >> >> of 
>>>>>>>  >> >> options to increase sales. How about dropping the IMF, ditch  
>> the 
>>>>>>> head, 
>>>>>>> >> >>  the 
>>>>>>> >> >> on board water tank, the  batteries, the fancy motor lift, 
>> re-model 
>>>>>>> the  
>>>>>>> >> >> interior and selling it as a "sport  model" My wife and I live 
>> on 
>>>>>>> >> >> the  
>>>>>>> >> >> boat 
>>>>>>>  >> >> almost every weekend and find a porta potty and crank lights  
>>>>>>> sufficient. 
>>>>>>> >>  >> Being a camper before a sailor I have found the R22 to be a 
>> first  
>>>>>>> class 
>>>>>>> >> >>  floating campground without the pain of hiking in. I also
>>>>>>> have
> 
>> had  
>>>>>>> the 
>>>>>>> >> >>  perverse pleasure one weekend of sailing rings around a 
>> macgregor  
>>>>>>> >> >> 26 
>>>>>>>  >> >> using 
>>>>>>> >> >> it like a  no wake buoy as the kids pleaded at their father to 
>> make  
>>>>>>> the 
>>>>>>> >> >> mac  
>>>>>>> >> >> go faster. Racer/Cruiser is more  fun than Cruiser/Racer. Even 
>> if 
>>>>>>> you're  
>>>>>>> >> >> not 
>>>>>>>  >> >> racing its fun to be faster. 
>>>>>>>  >> >> 
>>>>>>> >> >> Respectfully  submitted, 
>>>>>>> >> >> John Shulick  
>>>>>>> >> >> 
>>>>>>> >>  >> 
>>>>>>> >> >> Rick-139 wrote:  
>>>>>>> >> >>> 
>>>>>>>  >> >>> David, 
>>>>>>> >> >>>  
>>>>>>> >> >>> I hate to be the wet blanket  again.  But racing sailboats is 
>> a 
>>>>>>> >>  >>> whole 
>>>>>>> >> >>> 'nother  
>>>>>>> >> >>> market.  The key to  convincing a customer to buy a sailboat 
>> for 
>>>>>>> racing  
>>>>>>> >> >> is 
>>>>>>>  >> >>> to 
>>>>>>> >> >>>  convince him or her that they will have lots of other 
>> sailboats  
>>>>>>> >> >>> to 
>>>>>>>  >> >> race 
>>>>>>> >> >>> against.  
>>>>>>> >> >>> 
>>>>>>>  >> >>> In the one design game, it involves high volume  production 
>> and a 
>>>>>>> >> >>> distribution  system that can execute geographically 
>> concentrated 
>>>>>>>  sales 
>>>>>>> >> >> and 
>>>>>>>  >> >>> support. J Boats has been successful doing that in the 
>>>>>>> Great
> 
>>>>>>> >> >>> Lakes  
>>>>>>> >> >> with 
>>>>>>>  >> >>> the 
>>>>>>> >> >>> J 22  and other longer models. Plus, J Boats has a
>>>>>>> respectable
> 
>>  
>>>>>>> history 
>>>>>>> >> >> of  
>>>>>>> >> >>> maintaining one design  integrity. 
>>>>>>> >> >>>  
>>>>>>> >> >>> Of course, there's always PHRF  racing.  But how many 20 - 25 
>> foot 
>>>>>>> >>  >> cruising 
>>>>>>> >> >>> sailboat  owners are left with an interest in racing? 
>>>>>>> >>  >>> 
>>>>>>> >> >>> Unlike 30 years  ago, most people today who buy cruising or 
>> day 
>>>>>>>  sailing 
>>>>>>> >> >>> boats  
>>>>>>> >> >>> in the low 20's length are  first timers.  From there, they 
>> either 
>>>>>>> drop  
>>>>>>> >> >> out 
>>>>>>>  >> >>> or they move to larger boats more popular for cruising,  
>> racing or 
>>>>>>> >> >> both.  
>>>>>>> >> >>> Catalina and Hunter have turned  the market into that by 
>> making 
>>>>>>> >> >>>  cheap 
>>>>>>> >> >>> starter  
>>>>>>> >> >>> boats people can easily abandon  for yachts.  Stan's main 
>> problem 
>>>>>>> >>  >>> is 
>>>>>>> he 
>>>>>>> >>  >> now 
>>>>>>> >> >>> has a product that  goes against the prevailing mindset that 
>> has 
>>>>>>> >>  >> evolved 
>>>>>>> >> >>> for  
>>>>>>> >> >>> his market.  
>>>>>>> >> >>> 
>>>>>>>  >> >>> Did you read the article "The Little Boat that Could" in  
>> August 
>>>>>>> issue 
>>>>>>> >>  >> of 
>>>>>>> >> >>> Sailing?  The  title itself is a reflection of that mindset.  
>> And  
>>>>>>> >> >> despite 
>>>>>>>  >> >>> all 
>>>>>>> >> >>> kinds  of compliments about the R22, the piece ends with:  
>> "More  
>>>>>>> >> >> important, 
>>>>>>>  >> >>> where does one get a new tiller for a Rhodes 22?"   That's 
>> some 
>>>>>>> insult 
>>>>>>> >>  >> to a 
>>>>>>> >> >>> builder who has  admirably supported his product for decades.
> 
>> But  
>>>>>>> >> >> again, 
>>>>>>>  >> >>> that's part of the same mindset.  
>>>>>>> >> >>> 
>>>>>>>  >> >>> Rick 
>>>>>>> >> >>>  
>>>>>>> >> >>> On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 1:04  PM, David Culp
>>>>>>> <dculp at hsbtx.com>
> 
>>>>>>> wrote:  
>>>>>>> >> >>> 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> Rick: 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> What I am saying is that this boat is unique and I can't go
> 
>> down 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> to  
>>>>>>> >> >> the 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> local boatyard and get some of the major parts that  I
>>>>>>> might
> 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> need.  
>>>>>>> >> >> Also, 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> I 
>>>>>>> >> >>>>  can't send an email or make a phone call to the guy who 
>> built  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> the  
>>>>>>> >> >> boat at 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> most places and expect a response.  That's  probably worth 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> something  
>>>>>>> >> >> to 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> keep 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> the operation rolling as long as Stan does his part.  I  
>> don't 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> think  
>>>>>>> >> >> you 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> ought to pay royalty/loyalty if you don't get  anything for 
>> it. 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> If  
>>>>>>> >> >> the 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> group 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> feels we are getting something worth paying for, then I'm  
>> just 
>>>>>>> >> >> suggesting  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> a 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> small stipend annually to Stan which if everyone  
>> participates 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> might  
>>>>>>> >> >> be a 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> better solution then a percentage up front facing  new 
>> owners for 
>>>>>>> >> >>>>  loyalty/royalty.  The 5% on the seller side will figure
>>>>>>> into
> 
>> the  
>>>>>>> >> >> price 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> and 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> it gets the new owner out of any obligation to pay a  
>>>>>>> royalty/loyalty 
>>>>>>> >>  >> up 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> front for two  years.  Then, continued association
>>>>>>> membership
> 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> will 
>>>>>>> >> >>  require 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> the annual dues.  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> Imagine if you bought a Ford or Chevy used and then  were 
>> asked 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> to  
>>>>>>> >> >> send a 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> 5% 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> fee to the factory.  Nobody would... but this is not a 
>>>>>>> Ford
> 
>> or 
>>>>>>> Chevy. 
>>>>>>> >>  >> I 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> figure some type  of ongoing support is probably reasonable 
>> as 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> long 
>>>>>>> as 
>>>>>>>  >> >> we 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> get  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> good owner support and  parts availability.  For example, if 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> someone 
>>>>>>> >> >> comes  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> along and hits my rudder in  the slip and I need a new one, 
>> there 
>>>>>>> >>  >> ought to 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> be  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> a spare waiting at the  factory to ship out.   If someone 
>> blows a 
>>>>>>>  sail 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> out,  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> there should be one ready  to ship and the right color too.  
>> I 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> don't 
>>>>>>> >> >> know  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> if 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> this is the case at GBI because spare parts mean  overhead 
>> and I 
>>>>>>> don't 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> know 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> how much overhead Stan is willing to carry.  Maybe parts  
>> for 
>>>>>>> >> >> non-members  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> ought to carry a premium  that members don't have to pay-so 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> another 
>>>>>>> >> >> added  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> incentive to be one of the  family. 
>>>>>>> >> >>>>  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> I hear what you are saying  about the market.  Long term, 
>> owners 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> are 
>>>>>>> >> >> not  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> going to be the ones to  keep GBI afloat.  You have got to 
>> get 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> new 
>>>>>>> >> >>>>  customers 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> through the  door.  There have been a lot of good
>>>>>>> suggestions
> 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> given 
>>>>>>> by  
>>>>>>> >> >> a 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> lot 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> of  experienced people on the list.  My experiences with 
>> family  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> run  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> businesses are that we are  very happy to take your money
>>>>>>> but
> 
>> you 
>>>>>>> can  
>>>>>>> >> >> keep 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> your advice to yourself.  However, Stan seems  open to some 
>>>>>>> >> >> suggestions.  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> Stan has an excellent product, more people need to  know 
>> about it 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> as  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> someone  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> has mentioned.  A new  boat is becoming cost prohibitive for 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> most, 
>>>>>>> >> >> the  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> recycling is a good second  market but I think you need a 
>> "less 
>>>>>>> >> >>  frills" 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> model  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> to get younger couples  through the doors.  You would have
>>>>>>> to
> 
>> be 
>>>>>>> able  
>>>>>>> >> >> to 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> build it with the same quality, using the same molds  at an 
>>>>>>> attractive 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> price 
>>>>>>> >> >>>>  point and I don't know if that is possible.  I thought
>>>>>>> maybe
> 
>> a  
>>>>>>> >> >> stripped 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> down 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> racing version might be a solution.  Racers don't need 
>>>>>>> much
> 
>> down 
>>>>>>> >> >> below  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> and  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> will pay for quality  above.  The Rhodes is faster then a 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> Catalina 
>>>>>>> to 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> being 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> with and that would appeal to a lot of people.  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> Just my thoughts, 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> David 
>>>>>>> >> >>>>  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> 
>>>>>>> >> >>>>  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> 
>>>>>>> >> >>>>  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 17:28:36 -0400  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> From: Rick  <sloopblueheron at gmail.com> 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> (continued)  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email  List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> Message-ID: 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> 
>>>>>>> <52e9a140907261428v6feebf53l4e923711b987ec30 at mail.gmail.com>
> 
>>  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain;  charset=ISO-8859-1 
>>>>>>> >> >>>>  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> David,  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> When I was considering buying my R22, the PO said,  "I can 
>> give 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> you  
>>>>>>> >> >> the 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> home 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> phone number of the guy who makes the boat and he will talk
> 
>> to 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> you  
>>>>>>> at 
>>>>>>> >> >> any  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> time."  Of course,  that tilted me to buy his boat and 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> subsequently 
>>>>>>> >> >> buy  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> many  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> things from Stan.  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> Are you suggesting Stan discontinues this attractive  
>> offering in 
>>>>>>> the 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> shrunken marketplace for pocket cruiser sailboats?  I 
>>>>>>> think
> 
>> it 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> will  
>>>>>>> >> >> just 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> turn customers toward high volume boats where  technical 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> information  
>>>>>>> >> >> and 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> spare parts are readily available.  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> Rick 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> On Sun,  Jul 26, 2009 at 4:49 PM, David Culp 
>> <dculp at hsbtx.com>  
>>>>>>> wrote: 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Stan:  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Thank you for your  insight into the business.  I dare say 
>> that 
>>>>>>> most  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > sailboat  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > owners don't get the  inside track on happenings at the 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > factory; 
>>>>>>> if  
>>>>>>> >> >> the 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> > factory is even still in business that is.  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > I want to comment on  the loyalty/royalty program 
>> concerning 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > the 
>>>>>>> >> >> Rhodes.  
>>>>>>> >> >>>>  My  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > experience in boat  ownership over the years is that a
>>>>>>> used
> 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > boat 
>>>>>>> >> >>>>  purchaser 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > always  spends the maximum funds set aside for the 
>> purchase.  
>>>>>>>  Either 
>>>>>>> >>  >> the 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > purchase  price and the taxes consume the entire amount or 
>> the 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> > new 
>>>>>>> >> >>  owner 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > takes any funds  left and applies them to things the boat 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > needs. 
>>>>>>> >> >> And we  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> all  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > know that used boats  need something all the time. 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  It is a bit of a sticky wicket let's say, to request from 
>> a  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > new  
>>>>>>> >> >> owner 5 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> % 
>>>>>>> >> >>>>  > of 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the purchase  price be paid to GBI when they have probably 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > spent 
>>>>>>> >> >> more  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> money  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > then they intended to  begin with.  The Rhodes 22 is the 
>> top of 
>>>>>>> the  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> scale  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> in 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> > 22' boats and used prices are not cheap.   We see it all 
>> the 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > time  
>>>>>>> on 
>>>>>>> >> >> the  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > list...  Folks  are interested in the Rhodes but they are 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > trying 
>>>>>>> to  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> purchase  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > it on a "Catalina"  budget; so they "lurk" on the list 
>> either 
>>>>>>> saving  
>>>>>>> >> >> up 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> > their 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > cash or hoping to see a cheap boat come up for sale  
>> whereby 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > they  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> promptly  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > go  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > off-list and complete  the transaction. 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > You will remember in  my case, that I sent GBI a check for 
>> $ 
>>>>>>> 200.00  
>>>>>>> >> >> to 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> cover 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > the promotional materials you sent me-but that was not 
>>>>>>> 5%
> 
>> of 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the  
>>>>>>> >> >> price 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> I 
>>>>>>> >> >>>>  > paid.  In the meantime, I have enjoyed the technical 
>> support  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > that  
>>>>>>> I 
>>>>>>> >> >>>>  have 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > received as a  member of the list from the owners and from 
>>>>>>> yourself.  
>>>>>>> >> >> 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> That 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  is 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > worth something,  even though I didn't realize it in the 
>>>>>>> beginning.  
>>>>>>> >> >> 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> This 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  boat and this list are pretty unique to the boating
>>>>>>> world.
> 
>>  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > I propose and this  will make some people on this list 
>> unhappy, 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > in 
>>>>>>> >> >> fact,  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > very  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > unhappy.... An Owner's  association with an annual fee.  
>> For 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > that 
>>>>>>> >> >> annual  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > fee,  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > you have got to  provide something however.  Which is 
>> another 
>>>>>>>  >> >> problem 
>>>>>>> >> >>>>  with 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> a  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > royalty fee upfront;  people always need to feel that they 
>> are 
>>>>>>> >>  >> getting 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  something for their money.   In this case, for the annual
> 
>>>>>>> >> >> association  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> fee:  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Admission to the list  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Technical support  either from members or the factory 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > Availability and a price list of parts, sails, etc. that  
>> is 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > kept  
>>>>>>> up 
>>>>>>> >> >> to  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> date  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > so I can purchase it  from you if I need something. 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Except for the parts  and prices, this is pretty much what 
>> we 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > are 
>>>>>>> >> >> doing  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > already.  Maybe  you could come up with some member 
>> specials on 
>>>>>>>  >> >> pricing 
>>>>>>> >> >>>>  from 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > time to time for  sails or parts or write an occasional 
>> article 
>>>>>>> that  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> only  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > members would  get.  I don't want to burden you with a 
>> bunch of 
>>>>>>>  >> >> extra 
>>>>>>> >> >>>>  work, 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > but there needs  to be something unique about membership.  
>> In 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> > this 
>>>>>>> >> >>  way, 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> the  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > new owner would feel  they are getting something and it 
>> would 
>>>>>>> >>  >> generate 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  revenue for you over the longer term.  As part of the  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > membership,  
>>>>>>> >> >> if we 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> > agree to give you 5% of the selling price when  we sell, 
>> then I 
>>>>>>> >> >> don't  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> have  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> a 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> > problem with it; especially if the list helps  my estate 
>> sell 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the  
>>>>>>> >> >> boat. 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> >  I'll 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > even stipulate it in my will.  I figure if I owe a  
>> "loyalty 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > fee",  
>>>>>>> >> >> it is 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> > probably to the list members who have taken  their time 
>> and 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > been  
>>>>>>> so 
>>>>>>> >> >>>>  helpful 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > over the  years.  If paying you a "royalty" fee helps keep 
>> GBI  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > in  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> business  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > then that helps them  and you.  As a seller, if I pay 5% 
>> then 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > it 
>>>>>>> >> >> gets my  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > buyer on the list free  for two years.  Then he/she can do 
>> the 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> responsible 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > thing and start paying their own royalty/loyalty dues.  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > The other situation  which started the discussion in the 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > beginning 
>>>>>>> >> >> has  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> to 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> do 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > with after-market products or other parts unique to the  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Rhodes.  
>>>>>>>  If 
>>>>>>> >> >> a  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > member  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > has an after-market  item to sell to the list which is 
>> unique 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > to 
>>>>>>> the 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> Rhodes 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > and/or would normally be available from GBI for sale,  
>> then 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > he/she  
>>>>>>> >> >> goes 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> > through you.  They can advertise it and  discuss it; but
>>>>>>> I
> 
>> buy 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  it 
>>>>>>> >> >> from 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> you 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > after you have added your mark up or it cannot be  
>> advertised 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > on  
>>>>>>> the 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > member's 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > list by another member or by a third party.  Simple  as 
>> that. 
>>>>>>>  They 
>>>>>>> >>  >> are 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> a  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > supplier of General  Boats and you are the distributor to 
>> me. 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> Obviously, 
>>>>>>> >> >>>>  > the 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > list  membership information is kept proprietary to
>>>>>>> prevent
> 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> > direct 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> marketing 
>>>>>>> >> >>>>  > by a third party.  If a member tries to go behind your 
>> back...  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > we  
>>>>>>> >> >> can 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> take 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > care of that.  If something comes up for sale on  the 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > open-market  
>>>>>>> >> >> that 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> is 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > unique to the Rhodes 22 and there are legal issues, then  
>> that 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > is  
>>>>>>> a 
>>>>>>> >> >>>>  > discussion for lawyers and not for this forum. 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> > 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > Right now MJM is administering the list.  I think  he or 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > whomever  
>>>>>>> >> >> takes 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> on 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > those duties gets their membership free.  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > I hope you will take  these suggestions under advisement 
>> and if 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > it 
>>>>>>> >> >> is of  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > interest, let us know  what you think the annual
>>>>>>> membership
> 
>> fee 
>>>>>>> >>  >> should 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> be.  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > For everyone else, let  the flaming begin....  But just 
>> keep in 
>>>>>>> mind  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> what  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > purpose is here.   Trying to come up with something 
>> palatable 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > to 
>>>>>>> >> >> help  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> GBI  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > now  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > and us in the long  run. 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > David  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > PS:  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Other thoughts:   The Rhodes 22 website is "technically" 
>> one of 
>>>>>>> the  
>>>>>>> >> >> best 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> I 
>>>>>>> >> >>>>  > have ever seen as far as the boat information goes.  
>> However,  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > it  
>>>>>>> >> >> needs 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> some 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > polish to be a more effective marketing tool.  More  
>> timely 
>>>>>>> >> >> information  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> and  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > more emphasis on the  recycle program and availability of 
>> used 
>>>>>>> boats  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> comes  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > to  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > mind since new boat  sales are down.  Also, have you ever 
>>>>>>> considered  
>>>>>>> >> >> a 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> new 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  "entry level"  boat without all the bells and whistles 
>> which  
>>>>>>> >> >> someone 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> could 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > purchase at a bit lower price?  You've talked about  a 
>> racer 
>>>>>>> before. 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>>  Could 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > you come up with something without having to have new  
>>>>>>> >> >> molds-marketed as  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> a 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> > "Sport" Rhodes 22?   Lower the  interior weight, put a 
>> standard 
>>>>>>> mast  
>>>>>>> >> >> and 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> > racing sails on it and a spinaker.   Catalina has a
>>>>>>> "sport
> 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  model" 
>>>>>>> >> >> and it  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > does  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > pretty well I  think.  Just some ideas I have batted 
>> around. dc 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> > 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009  13:46:52 -0400 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > From:  "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com> 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint  
>> (continued) 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > To: "The  Rhodes 22 mail list"
>>>>>>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> 
>>  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Message-ID:  <038FA83D95464CCFB609CA722206B2D8 at rhodes> 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> > Content-Type: text/plain;     charset="iso-8859-1" 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  Rose and I want to thank you all for indulging GB in the 
>> use  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > of  
>>>>>>> >> >> your 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> forum 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > on an issue that is so basic to GB.  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > We want to thank those  that take issue with our position 
>> but 
>>>>>>> >>  >> attempt to 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> be  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > evenhanded.  (If  academically interested, we can provide 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > exhibits 
>>>>>>> >> >> and  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > witnesses that prove  the accuracy of our facts.) 
>>>>>>> >> >>>>  > 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > We are empathetic  with those who chafe at this sort of 
>> thing 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > and 
>>>>>>> >> >> remain  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > silent - in our  younger days we probably would have done 
>> the 
>>>>>>> same.  
>>>>>>> >> >> It 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> was 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > not until 50 that we adopted our tribe's slogan of   
>> "never 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > again"  
>>>>>>> >> >> and 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> took 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > on anyone who wronged us:  A policeman.  A  lawyer.  a 
>> station 
>>>>>>> wagon  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> full  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> of 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> > nuns (just kidding about the station wagon), a  giant 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > corporation  
>>>>>>> to 
>>>>>>> >> >>>>  > docketing at the US Supreme Court.   We prevailed in all 
>> these  
>>>>>>> pro 
>>>>>>> >> >> se  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > actions simply because  we do not complain unless the
>>>>>>> facts
> 
>> and 
>>>>>>> >>  >> logic 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> are  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > solidly on our side -  but we digress. 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > And, in particular, we  want to thank those who understand 
>> the 
>>>>>>> >>  >> logical 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> side  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > of our position and  offered suggestions. 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Re the issue of the  Loyalty/Royalty program:   Its 
>> reasoning 
>>>>>>>  seems 
>>>>>>> >> >> so 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> > correct that it is hard to comprehend  dissent.  Those 
>> thinking 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > us 
>>>>>>> >> >> crazy  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> for  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > such radical thinking  have to sit in this chair for just 
>> one 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > day. 
>>>>>>> >> >>>>  > Interestingly, dissenters enjoy products from many 
>> segments of  
>>>>>>> >> >> industry 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> who 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > have already worked out such support programs, yet these  
>>>>>>> dissenters 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> seem 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> to  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > be drawing their own  grandfather clause line as to which 
>>>>>>> industries  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> should  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > not be entitled to  residuals on their efforts.   Those in 
>> this 
>>>>>>>  >> >> group 
>>>>>>> >> >>>>  have 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > but to request  and we will expand on the good sense of 
>> this 
>>>>>>> >>  >> program. 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> It  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > has been emotionally  gratifying seeing former members of 
>> the 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > "You 
>>>>>>> >> >> must  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> be 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> > crazy" society, when, becoming members of the  "List" 
>> family, 
>>>>>>> seeing 
>>>>>>>  >> >> the 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  light and converting. 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Re the issue of the 50  years creating a unique product
>>>>>>> now
> 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > having 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> others 
>>>>>>> >> >>>>  > take bites of its parts for their unilateral gain, if not
> 
>>>>>>> resolved, 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> will 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  come home to bite us all.   ( When I walked out of the  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > hallowed  
>>>>>>> >> >> halls 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> of 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > ole 
>>>>>>> >> >>>>  > PU I vowed not to go into business because I could not 
>> stand  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the  
>>>>>>> >> >> ethics 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> I 
>>>>>>> >> >>>>  > saw, and assumed, had to go with that territory.  But it 
>> was  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> pre-ordained;  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > I  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > ended up spending most  of my life a driving capitalist.   
>> And 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> > it 
>>>>>>> >> >>  has 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> been  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> a 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> > blast, for me and my partner of 60 years -  because we 
>> made the 
>>>>>>> >> >> making  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> of 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> > money our secondary goal.   (The  effects of that kind of 
>>>>>>> religious  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> fervor  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > has surprisingly  turned out to be rough on our
>>>>>>> opponents.)
> 
>>>>>>> There  
>>>>>>> >> >> are 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> ways 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > we can go to stop the taking of free bites of the  
>> profitable 
>>>>>>> parts 
>>>>>>> >>  >> side 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> of  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > GB's business::  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > When we sold Venture  Sailboats (Macgregor), dealers could 
>> buy 
>>>>>>> sails  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > elsewhere and make an  additional profit on Roger's 
>> creation at 
>>>>>>> >>  >> Roger's 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  expense.  Roger, who graduated at the top of his class at
> 
>>>>>>> Stamford, 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> simply 
>>>>>>> >> >>>>  > raised the price of his boat and included sails.  Being 
>> the  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > tough  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> business  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > man he is, he did it  without notice and dealers had to
>>>>>>> eat
> 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > their 
>>>>>>> >> >> sail  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > inventories they  bought elsewhere.  We are slow learners 
>> but 
>>>>>>>  could 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> price  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Rhodes sales to  include a part an outside seller has 
>> latched 
>>>>>>> onto.  
>>>>>>> >> >> 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> Or, 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > We could simply be  unresponsive to boat owners who 
>> purchase 
>>>>>>> parts,  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> unique  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > to  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the Rhodes design,  from others in competition with GB or 
>> who 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > fail 
>>>>>>> >> >> to  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> honor  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > agreements with  GB.   We inherently do not like this 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> > retaliatory 
>>>>>>> >>  >> type 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> of  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > solution, but it is a  solution.   Or 
>>>>>>> >> >>>>  > 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > We could simply  close shop and that would close the
>>>>>>> market
> 
>> for 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> unauthorized 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > parts vendors.   This "cutting off ones nose"  solution
>>>>>>> is
> 
>> not 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > our  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> choice.  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  However, not  taking on rogue suppliers, eating away at 
>> the 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> > life 
>>>>>>> >> >>  cash 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> flow  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > of the company, makes  it an inevitable solution. 
>>>>>>> >> >>>>  > 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > In an effort to avoid  any of the above solutions, based
>>>>>>> on
> 
>> the 
>>>>>>> >>  >> thinking 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> of  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > List members in this  particular complaint of GB vs. Art
>>>>>>> C,
> 
>> we 
>>>>>>> have  
>>>>>>> >> >> some 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> > proposals that we will present to the List next  week for 
>> your 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> appreciated  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > feedback.  The  pro bono time we are having to devote to 
>> the 
>>>>>>> >>  >> problems 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> and  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > questions of private  sale Rhodes is becoming so 
>> overwhelming 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > (and 
>>>>>>> >> >> we  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> hate  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > to  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > be mean spirited  enough to tell them where to go) that we 
>> just 
>>>>>>>  >> >> can't 
>>>>>>> >> >>>>  seem 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > to  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > manage all of this  issue in one sitting. 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > ss  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  __________________________________________________ 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> > To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using  the 
>> mailing 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > list  
>>>>>>> go 
>>>>>>> >> >> to  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  http://www.rhodes22.org/list 
>>>>>>> >>  >>>> > __________________________________________________  
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >  
>>>>>>> >> >>>>  __________________________________________________ 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the 
>>>>>>> mailing
> 
>> list 
>>>>>>> >> >>>> go  
>>>>>>> >> >> to 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list  
>>>>>>> >> >>>>  __________________________________________________ 
>>>>>>>  >> >>>> 
>>>>>>> >> >>>  __________________________________________________ 
>>>>>>>  >> >>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the  mailing 
>> list 
>>>>>>> >> >>> go  
>>>>>>> to 
>>>>>>> >> >>>  http://www.rhodes22.org/list 
>>>>>>> >> >>>  __________________________________________________ 
>>>>>>>  >> >>> 
>>>>>>> >> >>>  
>>>>>>> >> >> 
>>>>>>> >>  >> -- 
>>>>>>> >> >> View this message in  context: 
>>>>>>> >> >> 
>>>>>>>  >> 
>>>>>>>  
>> http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-tp24660  
>>>>>>> >> >> 048p24697834.html  
>>>>>>> >> >> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing  list archive at Nabble.com. 
>>>>>>> >> >>  
>>>>>>> >> >>  __________________________________________________ 
>>>>>>>  >> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing  
>> list 
>>>>>>> >> >> go 
>>>>>>> to  
>>>>>>> >> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list  
>>>>>>> >> >>  __________________________________________________ 
>>>>>>>  >> >> 
>>>>>>> >> >>  __________________________________________________ 
>>>>>>>  >> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing  
>> list 
>>>>>>> >> >> go 
>>>>>>> to  
>>>>>>> >> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list  
>>>>>>> >> >>  __________________________________________________ 
>>>>>>>  >> >> 
>>>>>>> >> >>  
>>>>>>> >> > 
>>>>>>> >>  >-- 
>>>>>>> >> >View this message in context:  
>>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>>>  
>>
> http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-tp24660048p
> 24700483.html  
>>>>>>> >> >Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list  archive at Nabble.com. 
>>>>>>> >> >  
>>>>>>> >>  >__________________________________________________  
>>>>>>> >> >To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help  with using the mailing
>>>>>>> list
> 
>> go 
>>>>>>> >> >to  
>>>>>>> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list  
>>>>>>> >>  >__________________________________________________  
>>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>>> >>  
>>>>>>> >>  __________________________________________________ 
>>>>>>>  >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list 
>> go  
>>>>>>> >> to 
>>>>>>> >>  http://www.rhodes22.org/list 
>>>>>>> >>  __________________________________________________ 
>>>>>>>  >> 
>>>>>>>  >__________________________________________________  
>>>>>>> >To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using  the mailing list
>>>>>>> go
> 
>> to 
>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list  
>>>>>>>  >__________________________________________________  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  __________________________________________________ 
>>>>>>> To  subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go 
>> to  
>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list 
>>>>>>>  __________________________________________________ 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>> __________________________________________________  
>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the  mailing list go 
>> to 
>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list  
>>>>>> __________________________________________________  
>>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>>__________________________________________________ 
>>>>To  subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to  
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list  
>>>>__________________________________________________  
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>------------------------------  
>>>
>>>Message: 3 
>>>Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 09:43:04 -0400  
>>>From: "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com> 
>>>Subject: Re:  [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued) 
>>>To: "The Rhodes  22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> 
>>>Message-ID:  <1BA7BBD3036947F289B013E52D813110 at rhodes> 
>>>Content-Type:  text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; 
>>>       reply-type=original 
>>>
>>>I guess this is a dear John letter  
>>>
>>>John Shulick, 
>>>
>>>That does not sound like the  Stan I know.   I know I do not ignore the 
>> good 
>>>guys or the  bad guys (well maybe with one exception or two) and I do
know
> 
>> I 
>>>do not  get all my e-mails and that some of my e-mail does not get
through
> 
>> as  
>>>was currently the case with everyone using comcast.net.  
>>>
>>>While I have a lot of Johns and do not recall which one you  are, please 
>> do 
>>>not feel slighted because 
>>>at my age I have  trouble remembering if there are any Stands on the
list.
> 
>>>
>>>I do  note that you say you have a 71 Rhodes (almost even before my time) 
>> and  
>>>I do know that when I get an e-mail from someone indicating wanting to  
>> put a 
>>>lot of money into one of the first Rhodes ever built (and not  built by 
>> us) I 
>>>try very had to discourage them from pouring money into  it with the 
>> advice 
>>>to just sail it as is and when ready, get a more  recent model since the 
>>>differences are so drastic. 
>>>
>>>I  also note that you say we did sell you parts implying what you got was 
>> not  
>>>satisfactory but note that you did not say that we always tell whole 
boat
> 
>>>and parts buyers that everything from us is  returnable.   Did you send 
>> back 
>>>any faulty parts - if not,  please do. 
>>>
>>>ss 
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----  
>>>From: "John Shulick" <jsbudda at verizon.net> 
>>>To:  <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> 
>>>Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:39  PM 
>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)  
>>>
>>>
>>>> 
>>>> Ben, 
>>>> 
>>>> I  think the demise of the demise of the US auto industry has many 
>> complex  
>>>> factors in it and while they used the pizza principle I'm not  shure 
>>>> whether 
>>>> it was the decisive factor in their  fall. As for the cost and what the 
>>>> price 
>>>> point would  be for a "sport model".  GB would have to make that 
>>>>  determination. Stan does not seem to notice or respond to any posts I  
>>>> place 
>>>> on this Forum perhaps because I bought my boat  on Ebay and not through 
>>>> him. 
>>>> After buying my boat I  approached him for a rudder and inquired about 
>> some 
>>>> various small  parts. He sold me a used rudder assembly with a tiller 
>> for 
>>>>  $750.00 The tiller had a crack at the end bolted to the rudder (but  
>>>> usable) 
>>>> and I had to seal and paint the blade  myself. The request for small 
>> parts 
>>>> was ignored. Since I can take  a hint I now go to other sources for my 
>> mast 
>>>> parts, trailer parts  (I am bolting on a new Dexter axle this week as 
>> part 
>>>> of  
>>>> my trailer overhaul this is an exact replacement part not an  
>> equivilent) , 
>>>> and sails. Stan has lost over $2,000 in potential  sales to me and by 
>> the 
>>>> time my 71 restoration is finished he will  probably loose $2,000 more. 
>> I 
>>>> still am in the market for a 150  Genoa and a furler plus a complete
>>>> set
> 
>> of 
>>>> standing rigging and  hardware. Like yourself I'm looking for parts and 
>>>> accessories at  a fair and resonable price and will find or make them
>>>> as
> 
>>>> needed.  
>>>> 
>>>> John S 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> John; 
>>>> You're referring to the old US car  manufacturers technique known as 
>> "the 
>>>> pizza principle". Sell the  basic model for a decent price but add on
>>>> an
> 
>>>> outrageous markup  for each option. The Japanese kicked our butts when 
>> they 
>>>> put all  the good stuff in every car and the only choice was color. 
>>>>  
>>>> I don't think the stripped down racing Rhodes would be that much  less 
>>>> expensive to build, or that much cheaper to sell, but then  I'm not 
>>>> building 
>>>> or selling boats, or cars.  
>>>> 
>>>> I just want to know where I can get parts and/or  accessories without 
>>>> losing 
>>>> a friend, if I can help  it, and if it's fair and reasonable. 
>>>> 
>>>> BenCittadino  
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> View this  message in context: 
>>>>  
>>
> http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-tp24660048p
> 24704459.html  
>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.  
>>>> 
>>>> __________________________________________________  
>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list  go to 
>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list 
>>>>  __________________________________________________  
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>------------------------------  
>>>
>>>Message: 4 
>>>Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 09:49:10 -0400  
>>>From: "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com> 
>>>Subject: Re:  [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued) 
>>>To: "The Rhodes  22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> 
>>>Message-ID:  <1D4BA299E8024EB6A63F0999A9BD8ED3 at rhodes> 
>>>Content-Type:  text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; 
>>>       reply-type=original 
>>>
>>>even my typing is getting sloppy -  
>>>
>>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>>From: "stan"  <stan at rhodes22.com> 
>>>To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"  <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> 
>>>Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 9:43  AM 
>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)  
>>>
>>>
>>>>I guess this is a dear John letter 
>>>>  
>>>> John Shulick, 
>>>> 
>>>> That does not sound like  the Stan I know.   I know I do not ignore the 
>>>> good  
>>>> guys or the bad guys (well maybe with one exception or two) and I  do 
>> know 
>>>> I 
>>>> do not get all my e-mails and that some of  my e-mail does not get 
>> through 
>>>> as 
>>>> was currently the  case with everyone using comcast.net. 
>>>> 
>>>> While I have a  lot of Johns and do not recall which one you are,
>>>> please
> 
>> do 
>>>> not  feel slighted because 
>>>> at my age I have trouble remembering if  there are any Stands on the 
>> list. 
>>>> 
>>>> I do note that you  say you have a 71 Rhodes (almost even before my 
>> time) 
>>>> and  
>>>> I do know that when I get an e-mail from someone indicating  wanting to 
>> put 
>>>> a 
>>>> lot of money into one of the first  Rhodes ever built (and not built by 
>> us) 
>>>> I 
>>>> try very  had to discourage them from pouring money into it with the 
>> advice 
>>>>  to just sail it as is and when ready, get a more recent model since
>>>> the
> 
>>  
>>>> differences are so drastic. 
>>>> 
>>>> I also note  that you say we did sell you parts implying what you got 
>> was 
>>>> not  
>>>> satisfactory but note that you did not say that we always tell  whole 
>> boat 
>>>> and parts buyers that everything from us is  returnable.   Did you send 
>>>> back 
>>>> any faulty  parts - if not, please do. 
>>>> 
>>>> ss 
>>>>  
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "John Shulick"  <jsbudda at verizon.net> 
>>>> To:  <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> 
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009  1:39 PM 
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint  (continued) 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ben,  
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think the demise of the demise of the US  auto industry has many 
>> complex 
>>>>> factors in it and while they  used the pizza principle I'm not shure 
>>>>> whether  
>>>>> it was the decisive factor in their fall. As for the cost and  what
>>>>> the
> 
>>>>> price 
>>>>> point would be for a "sport  model".  GB would have to make that 
>>>>> determination. Stan  does not seem to notice or respond to any posts I 
>>>>> place  
>>>>> on this Forum perhaps because I bought my boat on Ebay and  not
>>>>> through
> 
>>>>> him. 
>>>>> After buying my boat I  approached him for a rudder and inquired about 
>>>>> some  
>>>>> various small parts. He sold me a used rudder assembly with a  tiller 
>> for 
>>>>> $750.00 The tiller had a crack at the end bolted  to the rudder (but 
>>>>> usable) 
>>>>> and I had to seal  and paint the blade myself. The request for small 
>> parts 
>>>>> was  ignored. Since I can take a hint I now go to other sources for my
> 
>>>>> mast 
>>>>> parts, trailer parts (I am bolting on a  new Dexter axle this week as 
>> part 
>>>>> of 
>>>>> my  trailer overhaul this is an exact replacement part not an 
>> equivilent)  
>>>>> , 
>>>>> and sails. Stan has lost over $2,000 in  potential sales to me and by 
>> the 
>>>>> time my 71 restoration is  finished he will probably loose $2,000
>>>>> more.
> 
>> I 
>>>>> still am in  the market for a 150 Genoa and a furler plus a complete 
>> set 
>>>>>  of 
>>>>> standing rigging and hardware. Like yourself I'm looking  for parts
>>>>> and
> 
>>>>> accessories at a fair and resonable price and  will find or make them 
>> as 
>>>>> needed. 
>>>>>  
>>>>> John S 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> John; 
>>>>> You're referring to the old US car  manufacturers technique known as 
>> "the 
>>>>> pizza principle". Sell  the basic model for a decent price but add on 
>> an 
>>>>> outrageous  markup for each option. The Japanese kicked our butts when 
>>>>>  they 
>>>>> put all the good stuff in every car and the only choice  was color. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I don't think the stripped down  racing Rhodes would be that much less 
>>>>> expensive to build, or  that much cheaper to sell, but then I'm not 
>>>>> building  
>>>>> or selling boats, or cars. 
>>>>> 
>>>>>  I just want to know where I can get parts and/or accessories without  
>>>>> losing 
>>>>> a friend, if I can help it, and if  it's fair and reasonable. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> BenCittadino  
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --  
>>>>> View this message in context: 
>>>>>  
>>
> http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-tp24660048p
> 24704459.html  
>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  __________________________________________________ 
>>>>> To  subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>>>> to
> 
>>  
>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list 
>>>>>  __________________________________________________ 
>>>> 
>>>>  __________________________________________________ 
>>>> To  subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> 
>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list 
>>>>  __________________________________________________  
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>------------------------------  
>>>
>>>Message: 5 
>>>Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 10:11:31 -0400  
>>>From: Lou Rosenberg <lsr3 at nyu.edu> 
>>>Subject: Re:  [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint /in all fairness 
>>>To: The  Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> 
>>>Message-ID:  <8ADB74E6-CF8C-4B63-B1BE-199E3A0F2676 at nyu.edu> 
>>>Content-Type:  text/plain;        charset=US-ASCII;       delsp=yes;
> 
>>  format=flowed  
>>>
>>>Rhodes owners, wanna be owners, and lurkers like me,  
>>>
>>>I bought my R22 from a discouraged owner who had not taken  care of   
>>>the boat and was basically dumping it in the back  of 
>>>a Pt Jefferson yard back in '04. I had been on the list for about  a   
>>>year before this and Stan advised me NOT to buy that  boat. 
>>>I went against his advice and through the years , Stan and Elton  have   
>>>helped me greatly.  I ended up only buying about  $1500, worth of rigging 
>>>and supplies on a visit to Edenton NC in 2005,  but subsequently Elton   
>>>brought up a much needed used   bow pulpit and new traveler assembly   
>>>to my yard a few yrs  later. 
>>>
>>>In all fairness I have not bought that much from GB  over the years   
>>>but trust their judgement and of course  Stan was right, I should've   
>>>waited and I may've found  
>>>a better deal.  Restoring any boat is NOT that much fun but there  are   
>>>rewards of doing it yourself, but sailing is the  eventual goal and   
>>>ive sacrificed many sailing days to get  where I am now. 
>>>
>>>I owe so much to all the people on this list  ALL of you helping me   
>>>out with questions for this novice  sailor who has few skills in terms   
>>>of carpentry,  fibreglassing 
>>>and the like.  Next Thurs I hope to launch Miracles  for the rest of   
>>>the year, keeping her in the calm,  semi-polluted waters of Mill Basin   
>>>all winter long.  
>>>
>>>wish me luck , I'll need it. 
>>>
>>>Stan, maybe its  time to bring in new blood and find a way to accept   
>>>some  sort of retirement from all this grind? 
>>>
>>>all the best  
>>>and thanks for all your help 
>>>
>>>Lou Rosenberg 
>>>s/v  Miracles 
>>>On Jul 29, 2009, at 9:43 AM, stan wrote: 
>>>
>>>>  I guess this is a dear John letter 
>>>> 
>>>> John Shulick,  
>>>> 
>>>> That does not sound like the Stan I  know.   I know I do not ignore   
>>>> the good  
>>>> guys or the bad guys (well maybe with one exception or two) and  I   
>>>> do know I 
>>>> do not get all my e-mails  and that some of my e-mail does not get   
>>>> through as  
>>>> was currently the case with everyone using comcast.net.  
>>>> 
>>>> While I have a lot of Johns and do not recall which  one you are,   
>>>> please do 
>>>> not feel slighted  because 
>>>> at my age I have trouble remembering if there are any  Stands on the   
>>>> list. 
>>>> 
>>>> I do  note that you say you have a 71 Rhodes (almost even before my    
>>>> time) and 
>>>> I do know that when I get an e-mail from  someone indicating wanting   
>>>> to put a 
>>>> lot  of money into one of the first Rhodes ever built (and not built    
>>>> by us) I 
>>>> try very had to discourage them from  pouring money into it with the   
>>>> advice 
>>>> to  just sail it as is and when ready, get a more recent model since    
>>>> the 
>>>> differences are so drastic. 
>>>>  
>>>> I also note that you say we did sell you parts implying what  you   
>>>> got was not 
>>>> satisfactory but note  that you did not say that we always tell   
>>>> whole boat  
>>>> and parts buyers that everything from us is  returnable.   Did you   
>>>> send back  
>>>> any faulty parts - if not, please do. 
>>>> 
>>>>  ss 
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From:  "John Shulick" <jsbudda at verizon.net> 
>>>> To:  <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> 
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009  1:39 PM 
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint  (continued) 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ben,  
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think the demise of the demise of the US  auto industry has many   
>>>>> complex 
>>>>>  factors in it and while they used the pizza principle I'm not shure  
>>>>> whether 
>>>>> it was the decisive factor in their  fall. As for the cost and what   
>>>>> the  
>>>>> price 
>>>>> point would be for a "sport  model".  GB would have to make that 
>>>>> determination. Stan  does not seem to notice or respond to any posts I 
>>>>> place  
>>>>> on this Forum perhaps because I bought my boat on Ebay and  not   
>>>>> through 
>>>>> him.  
>>>>> After buying my boat I approached him for a rudder and  inquired   
>>>>> about some 
>>>>> various  small parts. He sold me a used rudder assembly with a    
>>>>> tiller for 
>>>>> $750.00 The tiller had a crack at  the end bolted to the rudder (but 
>>>>> usable) 
>>>>>  and I had to seal and paint the blade myself. The request for    
>>>>> small parts 
>>>>> was ignored. Since I can take a  hint I now go to other sources for   
>>>>> my mast  
>>>>> parts, trailer parts (I am bolting on a new Dexter axle this  week   
>>>>> as part 
>>>>> of 
>>>>>  my trailer overhaul this is an exact replacement part not an    
>>>>> equivilent) , 
>>>>> and sails. Stan has lost over  $2,000 in potential sales to me and   
>>>>> by the  
>>>>> time my 71 restoration is finished he will probably loose  $2,000   
>>>>> more. I 
>>>>> still am in the  market for a 150 Genoa and a furler plus a   
>>>>>  complete set of 
>>>>> standing rigging and hardware. Like yourself  I'm looking for parts   
>>>>> and 
>>>>>  accessories at a fair and resonable price and will find or make    
>>>>> them as 
>>>>> needed. 
>>>>>  
>>>>> John S 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> John; 
>>>>> You're referring to the old US car  manufacturers technique known   
>>>>> as "the  
>>>>> pizza principle". Sell the basic model for a decent price but  add   
>>>>> on an 
>>>>> outrageous markup for  each option. The Japanese kicked our butts   
>>>>> when  they 
>>>>> put all the good stuff in every car and the only choice  was color. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I don't think the stripped down  racing Rhodes would be that much less 
>>>>> expensive to build, or  that much cheaper to sell, but then I'm not 
>>>>> building  
>>>>> or selling boats, or cars. 
>>>>> 
>>>>>  I just want to know where I can get parts and/or accessories without  
>>>>> losing 
>>>>> a friend, if I can help it, and if  it's fair and reasonable. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> BenCittadino  
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --  
>>>>> View this message in context: 
>>>>>  http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-  
>>>>> tp24660048p24704459.html 
>>>>> Sent from the  Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com. 
>>>>>  
>>>>> __________________________________________________  
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing  list   
>>>>> go to 
>>>>>  http://www.rhodes22.org/list 
>>>>>  __________________________________________________ 
>>>> 
>>>>  __________________________________________________ 
>>>> To  subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go    
>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list 
>>>>  __________________________________________________ 
>>>
>>>Lou  Rosenberg 
>>>Videographer 
>>>
>>>Steinhardt School of Culture,  Education and 
>>>Human Development at NYU 
>>>
>>>239 Greene  Street, Room 315 
>>>lsr3 at nyu.edu 
>>>
>>>(212) 998-5122  
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>------------------------------  
>>>
>>>Message: 6 
>>>Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 11:04:28 -0400 (EDT)  
>>>From: "Arthur H. Czerwonky" <czerwonky at earthlink.net>  
>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint /in all fairness  
>>>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>  
>>>Message-ID: 
>>>         
>> <25945721.1248879868382.JavaMail.root at elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
> 
>>>         
>>>Content-Type: text/plain;  charset=UTF-8 
>>>
>>>Lou, 
>>>
>>>My guess is retirement in  10-15 years, although I marvel at his, Rose's, 
>> and Elton's energy in this  business arena.  The composite support effort
>> I 
>> have seen by Rhoadies to  help other fleet skippers is incredible, and
>> will 
>> become even more vital in  the years ahead.  As parts and accessories may 
>> become less available, I,  for one, have been keeping my eye out for 
>> alternatives.  As I discovered  a year ago, the spreader brackets are
>> available from 
>> Dwyer  (I'd keep a  close eye on your's if they become distorted with
>> mast
> 
>> stepping using the old  GB method).   The alternative transom crutch I
>> use
> 
>> and posted can be  fabricated by a SS shop I have done work with. 
>>>
>>>I have been  told that replacement parts is one of the greatest concerns 
>> of fleet skippers  if we cannot obtain from GB, a problem I encountered
>> as
> 
>> long as two years  ago.  I have usually been able to find a substitute as 
>> necessary.   Maybe we can delay Stan's retirement until 20 years! 
>>>
>>>Art  
>>>
>>>-----Original Message----- 
>>>>From: Lou Rosenberg  <lsr3 at nyu.edu> 
>>>>Sent: Jul 29, 2009 10:11 AM 
>>>>To:  The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>  
>>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint /in all  fairness 
>>>> 
>>>>Rhodes owners, wanna be owners, and lurkers  like me, 
>>>> 
>>>>I bought my R22 from a discouraged owner who  had not taken care of   
>>>>the boat and was basically  dumping it in the back of 
>>>>a Pt Jefferson yard back in '04. I had  been on the list for about a   
>>>>year before this and Stan  advised me NOT to buy that boat. 
>>>>I went against his advice and  through the years , Stan and Elton have   
>>>>helped me  greatly.  I ended up only buying about $1500, worth of
rigging
> 
>>  
>>>>and supplies on a visit to Edenton NC in 2005, but subsequently  Elton   
>>>>brought up a much needed used  bow pulpit  and new traveler assembly   
>>>>to my yard a few yrs later.  
>>>> 
>>>>In all fairness I have not bought that much from GB  over the years   
>>>>but trust their judgement and of course  Stan was right, I should've   
>>>>waited and I may've found  
>>>>a better deal.  Restoring any boat is NOT that much fun but  there are   
>>>>rewards of doing it yourself, but sailing is  the eventual goal and   
>>>>ive sacrificed many sailing days  to get where I am now. 
>>>> 
>>>>I owe so much to all the  people on this list ALL of you helping me   
>>>>out with  questions for this novice sailor who has few skills in terms
> 
>>>>of carpentry, fibreglassing 
>>>>and the like.  Next  Thurs I hope to launch Miracles for the rest of   
>>>>the  year, keeping her in the calm, semi-polluted waters of Mill Basin
> 
>>>>all winter long. 
>>>> 
>>>>wish me luck , I'll need  it. 
>>>> 
>>>>Stan, maybe its time to bring in new blood and  find a way to accept   
>>>>some sort of retirement from all  this grind? 
>>>> 
>>>>all the best 
>>>>and thanks for  all your help 
>>>> 
>>>>Lou Rosenberg 
>>>>s/v Miracles  
>>>>On Jul 29, 2009, at 9:43 AM, stan wrote: 
>>>>  
>>>>> I guess this is a dear John letter 
>>>>>  
>>>>> John Shulick, 
>>>>> 
>>>>> That does not  sound like the Stan I know.   I know I do not ignore    
>>>>> the good 
>>>>> guys or the bad guys (well maybe  with one exception or two) and I   
>>>>> do know I  
>>>>> do not get all my e-mails and that some of my e-mail does not  get   
>>>>> through as 
>>>>> was currently the  case with everyone using comcast.net. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> While  I have a lot of Johns and do not recall which one you are,    
>>>>> please do 
>>>>> not feel slighted because  
>>>>> at my age I have trouble remembering if there are any Stands  on the   
>>>>> list. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I  do note that you say you have a 71 Rhodes (almost even before my    
>>>>> time) and 
>>>>> I do know that when I get an  e-mail from someone indicating wanting   
>>>>> to put a  
>>>>> lot of money into one of the first Rhodes ever built (and not  built   
>>>>> by us) I 
>>>>> try very had to  discourage them from pouring money into it with the
> 
>>>>> advice 
>>>>> to just sail it as is and when ready,  get a more recent model since   
>>>>> the  
>>>>> differences are so drastic. 
>>>>> 
>>>>>  I also note that you say we did sell you parts implying what you    
>>>>> got was not 
>>>>> satisfactory but note that you  did not say that we always tell   
>>>>> whole boat  
>>>>> and parts buyers that everything from us is  returnable.   Did you   
>>>>> send back  
>>>>> any faulty parts - if not, please do. 
>>>>>  
>>>>> ss 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ----- Original Message  ----- 
>>>>> From: "John Shulick" <jsbudda at verizon.net>  
>>>>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> 
>>>>> Sent:  Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:39 PM 
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list]  general boat's complaint (continued) 
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ben, 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> I think the demise of the demise of the US auto industry  has many   
>>>>>> complex 
>>>>>> factors  in it and while they used the pizza principle I'm not shure  
>>>>>> whether 
>>>>>> it was the decisive factor  in their fall. As for the cost and what   
>>>>>> the  
>>>>>> price 
>>>>>> point would be for a "sport  model".  GB would have to make that 
>>>>>> determination.  Stan does not seem to notice or respond to any posts
>>>>>> I
> 
>>>>>>  place 
>>>>>> on this Forum perhaps because I bought my boat on  Ebay and not   
>>>>>> through 
>>>>>>  him. 
>>>>>> After buying my boat I approached him for a rudder  and inquired   
>>>>>> about some 
>>>>>>  various small parts. He sold me a used rudder assembly with a    
>>>>>> tiller for 
>>>>>> $750.00 The tiller had a  crack at the end bolted to the rudder (but 
>>>>>> usable)  
>>>>>> and I had to seal and paint the blade myself. The request  for   
>>>>>> small parts 
>>>>>> was  ignored. Since I can take a hint I now go to other sources for
> 
>>>>>> my mast 
>>>>>> parts, trailer parts (I am  bolting on a new Dexter axle this week   
>>>>>> as  part 
>>>>>> of 
>>>>>> my trailer overhaul this is  an exact replacement part not an   
>>>>>> equivilent)  , 
>>>>>> and sails. Stan has lost over $2,000 in potential sales  to me and   
>>>>>> by the 
>>>>>> time my  71 restoration is finished he will probably loose $2,000    
>>>>>> more. I 
>>>>>> still am in the market for a  150 Genoa and a furler plus a   
>>>>>> complete set of  
>>>>>> standing rigging and hardware. Like yourself I'm looking  for parts   
>>>>>> and 
>>>>>>  accessories at a fair and resonable price and will find or make    
>>>>>> them as 
>>>>>> needed. 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> John S 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> John; 
>>>>>> You're  referring to the old US car manufacturers technique known    
>>>>>> as "the 
>>>>>> pizza principle". Sell the  basic model for a decent price but add   
>>>>>> on an  
>>>>>> outrageous markup for each option. The Japanese kicked  our butts   
>>>>>> when they 
>>>>>> put  all the good stuff in every car and the only choice was color.  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I don't think the stripped down  racing Rhodes would be that much
>>>>>> less
> 
>>>>>> expensive to build,  or that much cheaper to sell, but then I'm not 
>>>>>> building  
>>>>>> or selling boats, or cars. 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> I just want to know where I can get parts and/or  accessories without 
>>>>>> losing 
>>>>>> a friend,  if I can help it, and if it's fair and reasonable. 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> BenCittadino 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> View this  message in context: 
>>>>>>  http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-  
>>>>>> tp24660048p24704459.html 
>>>>>> Sent from  the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com. 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> __________________________________________________  
>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the  mailing list   
>>>>>> go to 
>>>>>>  http://www.rhodes22.org/list 
>>>>>>  __________________________________________________ 
>>>>>  
>>>>> __________________________________________________  
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing  list go   
>>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list  
>>>>> __________________________________________________  
>>>> 
>>>>Lou Rosenberg 
>>>>Videographer 
>>>>  
>>>>Steinhardt School of Culture, Education and 
>>>>Human  Development at NYU 
>>>> 
>>>>239 Greene Street, Room 315  
>>>>lsr3 at nyu.edu 
>>>> 
>>>>(212) 998-5122 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>>__________________________________________________ 
>>>>To  subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to  
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list  
>>>>__________________________________________________  
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>------------------------------  
>>>
>>>Message: 7 
>>>Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 11:05:27 -0400  
>>>From: "Lowe, Rob" <rlowe at vt.edu> 
>>>Subject: Re:  [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint /in all fairness 
>>>To: "The  Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> 
>>>Message-ID:  
>>>        
>>> <7A5B57319AFF9D4A8060949F2E724D5E02B8B38D at mirkwood.cc.w2k.vt.edu>
> 
>>  
>>>Content-Type: text/plain;         charset="us-ascii" 
>>>
>>>Lou, 
>>>Good luck to you!  It's  been fun following along with your trials and 
>>>progress over the  years.  I could have done what you have done, I'm glad 
>>>my '76 was  sailable from day one. 
>>>
>>>Now where is Mill Basin and Rockaway  Inlet exactly?  I'm hunting on 
>>>yahoo maps and you're in the New  York area?? - Rob 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----  
>>>From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org  
>>>[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Lou Rosenberg  
>>>Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 10:12 AM 
>>>To: The Rhodes 22  Email List 
>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint /in  all fairness 
>>>
>>>Rhodes owners, wanna be owners, and lurkers like  me, 
>>>
>>>I bought my R22 from a discouraged owner who had not taken  care of   
>>>the boat and was basically dumping it in the back  of 
>>>a Pt Jefferson yard back in '04. I had been on the list for about  a   
>>>year before this and Stan advised me NOT to buy that  boat. 
>>>I went against his advice and through the years , Stan and Elton  have   
>>>helped me greatly.  I ended up only buying about  $1500, worth of rigging 
>>>and supplies on a visit to Edenton NC in 2005,  but subsequently Elton   
>>>brought up a much needed used   bow pulpit and new traveler assembly   
>>>to my yard a few yrs  later. 
>>>
>>>In all fairness I have not bought that much from GB  over the years   
>>>but trust their judgement and of course  Stan was right, I should've   
>>>waited and I may've found  
>>>a better deal.  Restoring any boat is NOT that much fun but there  are   
>>>rewards of doing it yourself, but sailing is the  eventual goal and   
>>>ive sacrificed many sailing days to get  where I am now. 
>>>
>>>I owe so much to all the people on this list  ALL of you helping me   
>>>out with questions for this novice  sailor who has few skills in terms   
>>>of carpentry,  fibreglassing 
>>>and the like.  Next Thurs I hope to launch Miracles  for the rest of   
>>>the year, keeping her in the calm,  semi-polluted waters of Mill Basin   
>>>all winter long.  
>>>
>>>wish me luck , I'll need it. 
>>>
>>>Stan, maybe its  time to bring in new blood and find a way to accept   
>>>some  sort of retirement from all this grind? 
>>>
>>>all the best  
>>>and thanks for all your help 
>>>
>>>Lou Rosenberg 
>>>s/v  Miracles 
>>>On Jul 29, 2009, at 9:43 AM, stan wrote: 
>>>
>>>>  I guess this is a dear John letter 
>>>> 
>>>> John Shulick,  
>>>> 
>>>> That does not sound like the Stan I  know.   I know I do not ignore   
>>>> the good  
>>>> guys or the bad guys (well maybe with one exception or two) and  I   
>>>> do know I 
>>>> do not get all my e-mails  and that some of my e-mail does not get   
>>>> through as  
>>>> was currently the case with everyone using comcast.net.  
>>>> 
>>>> While I have a lot of Johns and do not recall which  one you are,   
>>>> please do 
>>>> not feel slighted  because 
>>>> at my age I have trouble remembering if there are any  Stands on the   
>>>> list. 
>>>> 
>>>> I do  note that you say you have a 71 Rhodes (almost even before my    
>>>> time) and 
>>>> I do know that when I get an e-mail from  someone indicating wanting   
>>>> to put a 
>>>> lot  of money into one of the first Rhodes ever built (and not built    
>>>> by us) I 
>>>> try very had to discourage them from  pouring money into it with the   
>>>> advice 
>>>> to  just sail it as is and when ready, get a more recent model since    
>>>> the 
>>>> differences are so drastic. 
>>>>  
>>>> I also note that you say we did sell you parts implying what  you   
>>>> got was not 
>>>> satisfactory but note  that you did not say that we always tell   
>>>> whole boat  
>>>> and parts buyers that everything from us is  returnable.   Did you   
>>>> send back  
>>>> any faulty parts - if not, please do. 
>>>> 
>>>>  ss 
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From:  "John Shulick" <jsbudda at verizon.net> 
>>>> To:  <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> 
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009  1:39 PM 
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint  (continued) 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ben,  
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think the demise of the demise of the US  auto industry has many   
>>>>> complex 
>>>>>  factors in it and while they used the pizza principle I'm not shure  
>>>>> whether 
>>>>> it was the decisive factor in their  fall. As for the cost and what   
>>>>> the  
>>>>> price 
>>>>> point would be for a "sport  model".  GB would have to make that 
>>>>> determination. Stan  does not seem to notice or respond to any posts I 
>>>>> place  
>>>>> on this Forum perhaps because I bought my boat on Ebay and  not   
>>>>> through 
>>>>> him.  
>>>>> After buying my boat I approached him for a rudder and  inquired   
>>>>> about some 
>>>>> various  small parts. He sold me a used rudder assembly with a    
>>>>> tiller for 
>>>>> $750.00 The tiller had a crack at  the end bolted to the rudder (but 
>>>>> usable) 
>>>>>  and I had to seal and paint the blade myself. The request for    
>>>>> small parts 
>>>>> was ignored. Since I can take a  hint I now go to other sources for   
>>>>> my mast  
>>>>> parts, trailer parts (I am bolting on a new Dexter axle this  week   
>>>>> as part 
>>>>> of 
>>>>>  my trailer overhaul this is an exact replacement part not an    
>>>>> equivilent) , 
>>>>> and sails. Stan has lost over  $2,000 in potential sales to me and   
>>>>> by the  
>>>>> time my 71 restoration is finished he will probably loose  $2,000   
>>>>> more. I 
>>>>> still am in the  market for a 150 Genoa and a furler plus a   
>>>>>  complete set of 
>>>>> standing rigging and hardware. Like yourself  I'm looking for parts   
>>>>> and 
>>>>>  accessories at a fair and resonable price and will find or make    
>>>>> them as 
>>>>> needed. 
>>>>>  
>>>>> John S 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> John; 
>>>>> You're referring to the old US car  manufacturers technique known   
>>>>> as "the  
>>>>> pizza principle". Sell the basic model for a decent price but  add   
>>>>> on an 
>>>>> outrageous markup for  each option. The Japanese kicked our butts   
>>>>> when  they 
>>>>> put all the good stuff in every car and the only choice  was color. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I don't think the stripped down  racing Rhodes would be that much less 
>>>>> expensive to build, or  that much cheaper to sell, but then I'm not 
>>>>> building  
>>>>> or selling boats, or cars. 
>>>>> 
>>>>>  I just want to know where I can get parts and/or accessories without  
>>>>> losing 
>>>>> a friend, if I can help it, and if  it's fair and reasonable. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> BenCittadino  
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --  
>>>>> View this message in context: 
>>>>>  http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-  
>>>>> tp24660048p24704459.html 
>>>>> Sent from the  Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com. 
>>>>>  
>>>>> __________________________________________________  
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing  list   
>>>>> go to 
>>>>>  http://www.rhodes22.org/list 
>>>>>  __________________________________________________ 
>>>> 
>>>>  __________________________________________________ 
>>>> To  subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go    
>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list 
>>>>  __________________________________________________ 
>>>
>>>Lou  Rosenberg 
>>>Videographer 
>>>
>>>Steinhardt School of Culture,  Education and 
>>>Human Development at NYU 
>>>
>>>239 Greene  Street, Room 315 
>>>lsr3 at nyu.edu 
>>>
>>>(212) 998-5122  
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>__________________________________________________  
>>>To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to  
>>>http://www.rhodes22.org/list  
>>>__________________________________________________  
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>------------------------------  
>>>
>>>Message: 8 
>>>Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 11:30:55 -0400 (EDT)  
>>>From: "Arthur H. Czerwonky" <czerwonky at earthlink.net>  
>>>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Yellowstone Lake, Jackson Lake Sailing  
>>>To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org 
>>>Message-ID: 
>>>    
>> <10147864.1248881456189.JavaMail.root at elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
> 
>>>         
>>>Content-Type: text/plain;  charset=UTF-8 
>>>
>>>Caesar, 
>>>
>>>How goes the  sailing?  I have been told of the excellent sailing in the 
>> Wyoming area  by a member of the Montgomery fleet, possibly not far from
>> you 
>> at all.   Apparently Yellowstone Lake is excellent, with the only
>> exception 
>> being a  fixed bridge between the lake and marina.  The same skipper 
>> reported that  Jackson Lake has no obstructions to contend with, and is
>> much more 
>> favorable  anyway, apparently even warm enough to swim in.  My Swedish 
>> cousins laugh  at our caution about cold water and insist they usually
>> break the 
>> Baltic ice  to take a refreshing dip. 
>>>
>>>I am told the marinas on the south  shore are impressive, and the only 
>> irritant is mosquitos in the shallow water  areas of the lake. 
>>>
>>>Have you tried sailing here?  I camped  there years ago, and it is
awesome
> 
>> scenery. 
>>>
>>>Best to you,  
>>>
>>>Art 
>>>
>>>
>>>------------------------------  
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________  
>>>Rhodes22-list mailing list 
>>>Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org  
>>>http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list  
>>>
>>>
>>>End of Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 1931, Issue 1  
>>>**********************************************  
>>>__________________________________________________
>>>To  subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to  
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>__________________________________________________
>> 
>> 
>> __________________________________________________
>> To  subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to  
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>> 
>> 
>> __________________________________________________
>> To  subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to  
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>> 
>> 
>> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2
>> easy 
>> steps! 
>>
> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=htt
> p://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd
>> =JulystepsfooterNO115)
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/Rhodes-Promotions-tp24727422p24765265.html
> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
> 
> __________________________________________________
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> __________________________________________________
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