[Rhodes22-list] Communication on da Rhodes list

Thu Dec 24 09:31:16 EST 2009

Todd, shame for misquoting me.  I guess you can now qualify for a TV talking 
head

ss

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Todd Tavares" <sprocket80 at mail.com>
To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 8:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Communication on da Rhodes list

>
> Michael,
>
> "...but one cannot equate
> participation by the Rhodes 22 manufacturer with that of aftermarket
> manufacturers."
>
> Why not? Why is this statement assumed to be true?  It is not true because 
> commercial advertisement is commercial advertisement.
>
>
> I can see that most here have an vested interest that GB stays in 
> business.
> But Art designed a boom room or pop top enclosure similar to the one GB 
> puts out and
> then mentioned it here, he was vilified and berated.  Then Stan says he 
> expects a 5% commission or loyalty fee from anyone who posts
> that his or her boat is for sale here on the list, and can posts freely 
> about anything else commercial. How can anyone say or see this as
> fair and equitable, even if it comes from the manufacturer?
>
> I really do not care either way if commercial post are allowed or not. Our 
> two views do not differ very much, but if the playing field is
> going to be level, then it has to be level. IMHO
>
>
> Todd T.
>
>
> P.S. (I wrote "OWNERS" in caps only because I cannot see bold, italics or 
> underlined words in the archive view window)
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael D. Weisner <mweisner at ebsmed.com>
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Wed, Dec 23, 2009 7:56 am
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Communication on da Rhodes list
>
>
> Todd,
>
> "... if you want to ban commercial advertisement, it will have to apply to
> everyone."
> Why? Why is this statement assumed to be true?  You are quite correct in
> stating that this is a Rhodes 22 "Owners" list but one cannot equate
> participation by the Rhodes 22 manufacturer with that of aftermarket
> manufacturers.
>
> That said, I am NOT in favor of a ban on commercial posts at all.   Please
> keep them simple, occassional and not directed towards a particular
> individual (do not chases leads on da list) and we will be fine.  If Stan
> announces that he is building a Catalina Conversion available at a
> particular price to those who might be interested, or Art has a boom room
> for sale, that's fine by me.  I think that the problem was that Stan and 
> Art
> were using da list to fuel their feud.
>
> I would still appreciate a simple website for reference, pictures and
> pricing.  Art, if you need help setting it up, just ask.  They're not
> difficult or expensive ($5/month or so at
> http://www.netfirms.com/web-hosting/index.php including Sitebuilder.) 
> See,
> commercial posting, no problem (NB: I am not affiliated with netfirms.)
>
> Mike
> s/v Shanghai'd Summer ('81)
> Nissequogue River, NY
>
> From: "Todd Tavares": Wednesday, December 23, 2009 5:22 AM
>>
>> Rik, and Michael,
>>
>>    No disrespect meant to anyone here, but this is the Rhodes 22 "OWNERS"
>> list.  Not the General
>> Boats list, Art's canvas list, etc. No one had a problem with Stan
>> participating, posting ads, and
>> even most agreed with his insane 5% commission for listed here for sale
>> until a bunch of guys jumped on Art.
>> But Stan has a website too.
>> Maybe some of the more computer savvy guys here should help MJM re-do the
>> GB website and literature
>> so it is up to date and flashy.
>>
>> We are 99.9% loyal to Stan and the future of GB, but the bottom line is
>> that this is the owners
>> group list and if you want to ban commercial advertisement, it will have
>> to apply to everyone.
>> Let us not confuse the issues.
>>
>> Todd T
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rik Sandberg <sanderico1 at gmail.com>
>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Sent: Wed, Dec 23, 2009 12:20 am
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Communication on da Rhodes list
>>
>>
>> Art,
>>
>> "Know that I am the manufacturer,  also the designer, and also the worker
>> bee.  I am also the risk taker - in a game with loaded dice"
>>
>> Yeah, so??? Is this the Art's boom room and pop-top enclosure list??
>>
>> In the almost 11 years I have been on this list, nobody has ever had a
>> problem doing their business business back channel until you came along.
>>
>> Websites are cheap. Make one up, put a link in your sig.
>>
>> But please, stop whining about it.
>>
>> Rik
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 6:02 PM, Art Czerwonky
>> <a_czerwonky at yahoo.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Michael,
>>>
>>> I defer to Stan and GBI on the credibility and quality of this boat we
>>> all
>>> own.  Unknown to him I referred two credible prospects directly to him 
>>> at
>>> the St Pete show earlier this month.  I don't expect letters, candy, or
>>> flowers for my honest attempt to help prosper his boat efforts.  I will
>>> not,
>>> however, defer to him on the credibility and quality of the cockpit
>>> enclosure or the boat cover or even the PTE.
>>>
>>> Michael, with all due respect, you accord special status to the
>>> manufacturer of a product.  Know that I am the manufacturer,  also the
>>> designer, and also the worker bee.  I am also the risk taker - in a game
>>> with loaded dice.  Stan does not manufacture canvas, and he is, no doubt
>>> very thankful for that.  Sometimes it helps to put yourself in someone
>>> else's shoes.  I need the opportunity to survive this business just like
>>> he
>>> does, for the good of a fleet that wants choices and viable options.
>>>
>>> Art
>>>
>>> --- On Tue, 12/22/09, Michael D. Weisner <mweisner at ebsmed.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > From: Michael D. Weisner <mweisner at ebsmed.com>
>>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Commercial Ads on da Rhodes list
>>> > To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> > Date: Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 6:12 PM
>>> > Todd,
>>> >
>>> > You have a good point and I don't disagree except (here it
>>> > comes) in the
>>> > case of GBI.  After all, this is called the Rhodes 22
>>> > list because it is
>>> > about the Rhodes 22 sailboat.  I believe that Stan
>>> > (GBI) has a slightly
>>> > different place on the list than Art or anyone else for
>>> > that matter.
>>> >
>>> > This list embodies a group of diverse individuals brought
>>> > together mostly
>>> > through the efforts of Stan, directly or indirectly.
>>> > It has been my
>>> > pleasure to provide information and assistance to other
>>> > Rhodies, in an
>>> > effort to help GBI.  This is not to say that I
>>> > wouldn't help Art succeed,
>>> > quite the contrary, but I do not treat the boat
>>> > manufacturer and an
>>> > aftermarket accessory maker in the same way.  I
>>> > believe that this is the
>>> > point of distinction.
>>> >
>>> > Mike
>>> > s/v Shanghai'd Summer ('81)
>>> > Nissequogue River, NY
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > From: "Todd Tavares" Tuesday, December 22, 2009 5:33 PM
>>> > >
>>> > > Michael,
>>> > >
>>> > >     I think you are looking at
>>> > that old discussion through Rose (and Stan)
>>> > > colored glasses. Art has a valid point, regardless of
>>> > the sour grapes
>>> > > which went on between him and Stan.  Commercial
>>> > advertisement is
>>> > > commercial advertisement.  If you think Art
>>> > should only be allowed to
>>> > > direct Rhodes listers to a website, then the rules
>>> > should apply across the
>>> > > board---Art,Stan, myself, or anyone else.
>>> > > IMHO
>>> > >
>>> > > Todd T
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > -----Original Message-----
>>> > > From: Michael D. Weisner <mweisner at ebsmed.com>
>>> > > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> > > Sent: Tue, Dec 22, 2009 3:00 pm
>>> > > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Commercial Ads on da Rhodes
>>> > list
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Art,
>>> > >
>>> > > Do you have a website that you could refer interested
>>> > parties to?  I would
>>> > > not mind a link to a site (occasionally) much the same
>>> > as has been done
>>> > > for
>>> > > other vendors (WM, Defender, Dwyer, Doyle, etc.) and
>>> > even a Rhodie canvas
>>> > > shop.
>>> > >
>>> > > I think that the original objection had to do with
>>> > chasing leads and
>>> > > airing
>>> > > the GBI/AHC controversy using the list.
>>> > >
>>> > > Now, about that Babes on Boats thread ...
>>> > >
>>> > > Mike
>>> > > s/v Shanghai'd Summer ('81)
>>> > > Nissequogue River, NY
>>> > >
>>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > > From: "Arthur H. Czerwonky" <czerwonky at earthlink.net>
>>> > > To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 11:02 AM
>>> > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Babes on Boats
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >> All,
>>> > >>
>>> > >> I think this is an excellent suggestion.  As
>>> > I produce BR, PT, and cover
>>> > >> options as a service to the fleet, MJM has
>>> > suggested that it is somehow
>>> > >> slacking ethic to make this knowledge available to
>>> > the skippers who want
>>> > >> and need it.  An interesting and apparently
>>> > biased slant considering that
>>> > >> Stan has freely taken the perogative with the
>>> > Catalina 25 conversion,
>>> > >> which he has openly announced and advertised on
>>> > our list, with price and
>>> > >> all.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Understand that I have no objection at all to
>>> > Stan's placement of his
>>> > >> notice/ad.  The playing field should be
>>> > level, however.  Any double
>>> > >> standard is a disservice to our fleet skippers and
>>> > owners.  Our objective
>>> > >> should be to provide the very best information and
>>> > service to a very
>>> > >> deserving and intelligent fleet market.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Art
>>> > >> s/v Mary Jane
>>> > >> Lake Hartwell/St Pete
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > >> -----Original Message-----
>>> > >>>From: Stephen Staum <staum at earthlink.net>
>>> > >>>Sent: Dec 22, 2009 10:06 AM
>>> > >>>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> > >>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Babes on Boats
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>Sign me up for this one!
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>Sent from my iPhone
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>On Dec 22, 2009, at 8:02 AM, Leland <LKUHN at cnmc.org>
>>> > wrote:
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>> I'd also like to see a "Babes on Boats"
>>> > section. :)
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>> Greg PA wrote:
>>> > >>>>>
>>> > >>>>> One last thought is I wish this forum
>>> > was split into categories. It
>>> > >>>>> would
>>> > >>>>> be nice to have a "buy and sell",
>>> > non-sailing, older Rhodes. new
>>> > >>>>> Rhodes
>>> > >>>>> sections. I know the forum must be a
>>> > lot of work for the people who
>>> > >>>>> maintain it, but the other forums with
>>> > the categories seem to have
>>> > >>>>> less
>>> > >>>>> squabbles.
>>> > >>>>>
>>> > >>>>> Happy and Safe Holidays
>>> > >>>>>
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>> --
>>> > >>>> View this message in context:
>>> > >>>>
>>> http://old.nabble.com/Rhodes-List--Robertson%27s-Rules-Of-Order-tp26835266p26887976.html
>>> > >>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list
>>> > archive at Nabble.com.
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>>
>>> > __________________________________________________
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>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > __________________________________________________
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>>> > >>
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>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Many colleges claim that they develop "leaders." All too often, that 
>> means
>> turning out graduates who cannot feel fulfilled unless they are telling
>> other people what to do. There are already too many people like that, and
>> they are a menace to everyone else's freedom. ...Thomas Sowell
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>>
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>
>
> --
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>
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