[Rhodes22-list] Partial Mainsail
Leland
LKUHN at cnmc.org
Tue Jul 28 10:07:00 EDT 2009
John,
That makes sense. If the boat normally heels less with the centerboard up,
it stands to reason that it would also heel less in a big gust of wind.
Lee
jlock wrote:
>
> Actually I think it is the opposite. With the board up, a gust will
> tend to push the hull sideways more easily and expend some energy
> doing so, producing less heel. But with the board down, it will offer
> resistance to the sideways push of the gust at a very low angle. The
> results will be more heel above the waterline.
>
> Cheers!
> John Lock
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> s/v Pandion - '79 Rhodes 22
> Lake Sinclair, GA
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> On Jul 27, 2009, at 13:41, MichaelT wrote:
>> I'll have to balance the compromises here w/ needing to get
>> somewhere vs a
>> relaxing time.
>>
>> Btw, how real is the risk of a knockdown w/ the board up?
>> Has there been any reported knockdowns with the board up?
>> I suppose if a BIG gust came across and the board was up that the
>> boat will
>> react and heel much easier.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>> Arthur H. Czerwonky wrote:
>>>
>>> Michael,
>>>
>>> These 'board up' options are a new one to me, partly because I began
>>> serious sailing in a racing mode. I do not know of anyone who
>>> would beat
>>> into the wind with the board up in competition, certainly due to
>>> slippage,
>>> which Hank emphasizes so well, but also the risk of knockdown. I
>>> have
>>> never tried it, Michael, but I'd approach this technique with
>>> caution,
>>> especially if your wife is aboard.
>>>
>>> Happy sailing,
>>>
>>> Art
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: MichaelT <mticse at gmail.com>
>>>> Sent: Jul 27, 2009 9:56 AM
>>>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Partial Mainsail
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the first hand knowledge wrt the centerboard.
>>>> You've certainly changed the fundamentals of my logic. Womehow my
>>>> flawed
>>>> thinking was that with the board up that the Rhodes would heel
>>>> more and
>>>> difficult to turn. On the contrary, the Rhodes actually sails
>>>> better (i.e.
>>>> less heel, easy to to turn) with the board up. Definitely
>>>> something I will
>>>> do this week.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks Lee!
>>>> Michael
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Leland wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael,
>>>>>
>>>>> With the board down it will allow you to sail closer to the wind
>>>>> and
>>>>> make
>>>>> better headway (less drifting).
>>>>>
>>>>> However, the faster you go the less impact the board will have on
>>>>> both
>>>>> sailing close to the wind and headway. The board is most useful
>>>>> if you
>>>>> want to make headway in light wind.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm a daysailor so the only time I need to make better headway is
>>>>> if
>>>>> it's
>>>>> necessary to get back to my marina at the end of the day. With
>>>>> yesterday's high wind and the current and chop pushing me away
>>>>> from the
>>>>> wind, I never once lowered my board and sailed part of the time
>>>>> on broad
>>>>> reaches and runs. On tacks the boat turned like a sports car.
>>>>>
>>>>> With the board down it will act as a pivot point and allow you to
>>>>> turn
>>>>> easier whether you are tacking or motoring around your slip. I
>>>>> don't
>>>>> use
>>>>> if for either one.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've measured my speed countless times with the board up and down
>>>>> and it
>>>>> has always had a negative impact on speed. I think the term is VMG
>>>>> (velocity made good?) which measures how much headway you're
>>>>> actually
>>>>> making. If I could figure out how to measure it on my GPS I'm
>>>>> sure it
>>>>> would show that the board helps, but with the reduction in speed
>>>>> it sure
>>>>> doesn't seem that way.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lee
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> MichaelT wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lee,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was just thinking about bringing the centerboard up as you
>>>>>> suggested,
>>>>>> but have concerns.
>>>>>> Did you flip bringing the centerboard up and down. Down when
>>>>>> tacking
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> up after the tack?
>>>>>> I remember when I forgot to let the centerboard down and all I
>>>>>> could
>>>>>> remember was going sideways and difficulty in making headway. In
>>>>>> essence
>>>>>> the boat was slipping and pushed sideways by the wind when the
>>>>>> centerboard is up. I suppose as long as we don't need to be
>>>>>> anywhere
>>>>>> soon
>>>>>> this is all fine.
>>>>>> At the end I'll have to let my wife judge!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Great suggestion!
>>>>>> Michael
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Leland wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Michael,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You're getting lots of good advice.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You'll have a little less heel with the board up. From the
>>>>>>> Rhodes
>>>>>>> Owners' Site under FAQs under Rhodes vs. Com-Pac vs.
>>>>>>> Precisions: 5.
>>>>>>> Retract the centerboard part way in a big breeze. The board is
>>>>>>> intentionally modest in weight, and does not contribute
>>>>>>> significantly
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> stability up or down. Raising the board part way will reduce
>>>>>>> both heel
>>>>>>> and weather helm.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The quote refers to Precisions. If I raise the board all the
>>>>>>> way on
>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>> Rhodes it usually only reduces heel by about 3 degrees but your
>>>>>>> wife
>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>> appreciate it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In an 8-10 knot wind, lowering the boom will reduce heel also.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As Dave mentioned the boat sails better with two sails. For the
>>>>>>> amount
>>>>>>> of wind you described you probably weren't going fast enough to
>>>>>>> tack.
>>>>>>> Come off the wind enough to get up some speed and you'll then
>>>>>>> be able
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> turn her sharply into the wind.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When I first got my Rhodes I typically had too much sail out.
>>>>>>> You
>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>> wise to be conservative in your sail plan, but without any
>>>>>>> headsail
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> so little main you probably couldn't get enough speed to tack
>>>>>>> even if
>>>>>>> you had come off the wind. Last week I was in a 12 knot wind.
>>>>>>> On a
>>>>>>> close reach with balanced sails with the board up and my 190
>>>>>>> lbs of
>>>>>>> rail
>>>>>>> meat, I had less than 20 degrees of heel with the boom up and
>>>>>>> the main
>>>>>>> reefed to 80%. With the boom down I had the same heel with
>>>>>>> 100% main.
>>>>>>> I have my mainsail furling line marked for reefs at 60% and
>>>>>>> 80%. If I
>>>>>>> have to reef the tiny little main beyond 60%, it's too windy
>>>>>>> for me
>>>>>>> (over 20 knots) and I go home.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Good luck!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lee
>>>>>>> 1986 Rhodes22 At Ease
>>>>>>> Kent Island, MD
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> david.walker5 wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Stephen,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tacking with the jib, especially very light or heavy wind can be
>>>>>>>> challenging
>>>>>>>> too. The problem is the jib is very powerfull and it wants to
>>>>>>>> push
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> boat
>>>>>>>> away from the tack. One technique that has worked for me is
>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> borrowed from sailing a square rigger. When you push the
>>>>>>>> tiller to
>>>>>>>> lee,
>>>>>>>> loosen the jibe immediately, but do not let the sheet fly.(for
>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>> interested its called scandalizing the jib) This reduces the
>>>>>>>> drive
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> sail and allows it to turn up wind. Just as the bow comes
>>>>>>>> into the
>>>>>>>> wind,
>>>>>>>> tighten the sheet a little. The wind will then backwind the
>>>>>>>> jib and
>>>>>>>> push the
>>>>>>>> bow the rest of the way onto the new tack. As you come through
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> wind, the
>>>>>>>> wind on the new tack will push the sail across to the new
>>>>>>>> tack. In
>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>> heavy wind you may end up "in stays" or headed into the wind and
>>>>>>>> start
>>>>>>>> to be
>>>>>>>> pushed backwards. In that case as I said in an earlier post,
>>>>>>>> shift
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> rudder (tiller to windward) and the boat will back onto the
>>>>>>>> new tack
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> start to sail.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> David Walker
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> www.davidwalkerphotography.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Event Specialists
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 781-639-2707 Office
>>>>>>>> 781-718-8690 Cell
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Stephen Staum" <staum at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 3:32 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Partial Mainsail
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Michael,
>>>>>>>>> I too have a wife who likes to sail flat. I have an '87 w a
>>>>>>>>> 184 per
>>>>>>>>> cent genoa. I usually start w 1/2 of the genny as the jib
>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>> powers this boat. Even w the full main out (alone) u will
>>>>>>>>> struggle
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> come about. Also, if u have the full jib out in light winds,
>>>>>>>>> it can
>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> very difficult 2 get the jib 2 come across when coming about.
>>>>>>>>> It is
>>>>>>>>> often easier 2 jibe or roll up 1/2 the jib b4 come about is
>>>>>>>>> started.
>>>>>>>>> Enjoy!
>>>>>>>>> Stephen Staum
>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Jul 24, 2009, at 12:47 PM, MichaelT <mticse at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Went out with the family on Sunday and wanted to play it safe.
>>>>>>>>>> Drew the IMF mainsail approx halfway on the boom (the letter
>>>>>>>>>> R on
>>>>>>>>>> the sail
>>>>>>>>>> wasn't showing).
>>>>>>>>>> Wanted to keep things simple and used no jib. Centerboard
>>>>>>>>>> was down
>>>>>>>>>> all the
>>>>>>>>>> way.
>>>>>>>>>> The boat stayed flat as a pancake which was the desired
>>>>>>>>>> effect.
>>>>>>>>>> My wife wants no heeling whatsoever. Problem I had was I
>>>>>>>>>> couldn't
>>>>>>>>>> tack.
>>>>>>>>>> It even had a hard time getting into irons and just couldn't
>>>>>>>>>> cutover.
>>>>>>>>>> The only way I could change direction was to spin 2/3's
>>>>>>>>>> around in a
>>>>>>>>>> jibe.
>>>>>>>>>> I didn't want to experiment and let out more sail so we just
>>>>>>>>>> enjoyed
>>>>>>>>>> sailing
>>>>>>>>>> the next hour like this.
>>>>>>>>>> Is this normal behaviour? What am I doing wrong?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>> Michael
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/Partial-Mainsail-
>>>>>>>>>> tp24647946p24647946.html
>>>>>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>> to
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>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>>>>> list go
>>>>>>>> to
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
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>>>>
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>>>
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>>
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