[Rhodes22-list] Centerboard and Sail Trim

Rick sloopblueheron at gmail.com
Tue Jul 28 12:18:29 EDT 2009


Lou,

I've though of using a water tank under each cockpit bench to pump water
back and forth.  It wouldn't switch weight as fast as tossing a sand filled
dummy, though.

Rick

On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 12:05 PM, Lou Rosenberg <lsr3 at nyu.edu> wrote:

> Dave, Rick,
>
> I ve always wanted to experiment with stuffing a mannequin with
> sand.  when I tack, I would simply pick up the heavy dummy and
> place it on the windward side.   No beer needed!
>
> I could stuff my blow up doll but I doubt it would hold up for an
> entire day:)
>
>
> Lou
> On Jul 28, 2009, at 12:01 PM, David Walker wrote:
>
> > You usually only rent them.  The going rate is a sixpack each after
> > the
> > race.
> > David Walker
> >
> > www.davidwalkerphotography.com
> >
> > Event Specialists
> >
> > 781-639-2707 Office
> > 781-718-8690 Cell
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Lou Rosenberg" <lsr3 at nyu.edu>
> > To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 11:51 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Centerboard and Sail Trim
> >
> >
> >> Dave
> >>
> >> Where can I buy Deck Apes?
> >> they're not in the WM catalog?
> >>
> >> Lou
> >>
> >> On Jul 28, 2009, at 11:52 AM, David Walker wrote:
> >>
> >>> I've tried to stay quiet while watching these posts fly by but I
> >>> have to
> >>> make a few comments.
> >>>
> >>> 1)  The R22 sails basically like a big dinghy. It really wants to
> >>> sail
> >>> relatively flat.  This gives maximum depth to the CB, least wetted
> >>> surface
> >>> and best hull form factor in the water.   All heel does is
> >>> effectively lower
> >>> the sails, create weather helm and portentially pull the rudder out
> >>> of the
> >>> water. If the rudder is partially out of the water due to heel, it
> >>> is less
> >>> effective and requires more angle which creates drag and can
> >>> stall the
> >>> rudder.  Some (not all) keel boats can sail faster with significant
> >>> heeling
> >>> because they are designed with significant hull overhangs which add
> >>> waterline length whwn heeling.  This usually comes about due to
> >>> specific
> >>> racing class design formulas.
> >>>
> >>> All that being said the ways to reduce heal are to a) use deck
> >>> apes, b) reef
> >>> sails and c) trim sails to maximize lift and minimize drag
> >>>
> >>> 2)  All CB boats will sail better on the wind with the board down.
> >>> Water
> >>> passing by the boards leading edge at the leeway angle creates lift
> >>> which
> >>> keeps the boat going intoo the wind.  The lateral resistance of the
> >>> board is
> >>> mimimal compared to the sails.  There is no reason (healing, light
> >>> air,
> >>> heavy air) to sail on the wind with the board up.  The amount of
> >>> board down
> >>> can be experimented with to modify weather/lee helm as the CE
> >>> (center of
> >>> effort) of the board will change relative to the CE of the sails
> >>> has the
> >>> board is lowered.  On a run, racing sailors will raise the board to
> >>> reduce
> >>> drag, but you will find that makes steering more difficult as the
> >>> board and
> >>> the rudder combine to create directional stability.
> >>>
> >>> For those interested I reccommend a small paper back book entitled
> >>> "Sail
> >>> Trim - Theory and Practice" by Peter Hahne, published by Sheridan
> >>> House.  He
> >>> describes in detail, trimming techniques to use to optimize sail
> >>> trim for
> >>> all conditions.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> David Walker
> >>>
> >>> www.davidwalkerphotography.com
> >>>
> >>> Event Specialists
> >>>
> >>> 781-639-2707 Office
> >>> 781-718-8690 Cell
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Leland" <LKUHN at cnmc.org>
> >>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 10:07 AM
> >>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Partial Mainsail
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> John,
> >>>>
> >>>> That makes sense.  If the boat normally heels less with the
> >>>> centerboard
> >>>> up,
> >>>> it stands to reason that it would also heel less in a big gust of
> >>>> wind.
> >>>>
> >>>> Lee
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> jlock wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Actually I think it is the opposite.  With the board up, a gust
> >>>>> will
> >>>>> tend to push the hull sideways more easily and expend some energy
> >>>>> doing so, producing less heel.  But with the board down, it will
> >>>>> offer
> >>>>> resistance to the sideways push of the gust at a very low angle.
> >>>>> The
> >>>>> results will be more heel above the waterline.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Cheers!
> >>>>> John Lock
> >>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>>> s/v Pandion - '79 Rhodes 22
> >>>>> Lake Sinclair, GA
> >>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Jul 27, 2009, at 13:41, MichaelT wrote:
> >>>>>> I'll have to balance the compromises here w/ needing to get
> >>>>>> somewhere vs a
> >>>>>> relaxing time.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Btw, how real is the risk of a knockdown w/ the board up?
> >>>>>> Has there been any reported knockdowns with the board up?
> >>>>>> I suppose if a BIG gust came across and the board was up that the
> >>>>>> boat will
> >>>>>> react and heel much easier.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Michael
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Arthur H. Czerwonky wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Michael,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> These 'board up' options are a new one to me, partly because I
> >>>>>>> began
> >>>>>>> serious sailing in a racing mode.  I do not know of anyone who
> >>>>>>> would beat
> >>>>>>> into the wind with the board up in competition, certainly due to
> >>>>>>> slippage,
> >>>>>>> which Hank emphasizes so well, but also the risk of
> >>>>>>> knockdown.  I
> >>>>>>> have
> >>>>>>> never tried it, Michael, but I'd approach this technique with
> >>>>>>> caution,
> >>>>>>> especially if your wife is aboard.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Happy sailing,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Art
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>> From: MichaelT <mticse at gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>> Sent: Jul 27, 2009 9:56 AM
> >>>>>>>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Partial Mainsail
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Thanks for the first hand knowledge wrt the centerboard.
> >>>>>>>> You've certainly changed the fundamentals of my logic.
> >>>>>>>> Womehow my
> >>>>>>>> flawed
> >>>>>>>> thinking was that with the board up that the Rhodes would heel
> >>>>>>>> more and
> >>>>>>>> difficult to turn. On the contrary, the Rhodes actually sails
> >>>>>>>> better (i.e.
> >>>>>>>> less heel, easy to to turn) with the board up. Definitely
> >>>>>>>> something I will
> >>>>>>>> do this week.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Thanks Lee!
> >>>>>>>> Michael
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Leland wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Michael,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> With the board down it will allow you to sail closer to the
> >>>>>>>>> wind
> >>>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>> make
> >>>>>>>>> better headway (less drifting).
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> However, the faster you go the less impact the board will
> >>>>>>>>> have on
> >>>>>>>>> both
> >>>>>>>>> sailing close to the wind and headway.  The board is most
> >>>>>>>>> useful
> >>>>>>>>> if you
> >>>>>>>>> want to make headway in light wind.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I'm a daysailor so the only time I need to make better
> >>>>>>>>> headway is
> >>>>>>>>> if
> >>>>>>>>> it's
> >>>>>>>>> necessary to get back to my marina at the end of the day.
> >>>>>>>>> With
> >>>>>>>>> yesterday's high wind and the current and chop pushing me away
> >>>>>>>>> from the
> >>>>>>>>> wind, I never once lowered my board and sailed part of the
> >>>>>>>>> time
> >>>>>>>>> on broad
> >>>>>>>>> reaches and runs.  On tacks the boat turned like a sports car.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> With the board down it will act as a pivot point and allow
> >>>>>>>>> you to
> >>>>>>>>> turn
> >>>>>>>>> easier whether you are tacking or motoring around your
> >>>>>>>>> slip.  I
> >>>>>>>>> don't
> >>>>>>>>> use
> >>>>>>>>> if for either one.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I've measured my speed countless times with the board up and
> >>>>>>>>> down
> >>>>>>>>> and it
> >>>>>>>>> has always had a negative impact on speed.  I think the term
> >>>>>>>>> is VMG
> >>>>>>>>> (velocity made good?) which measures how much headway you're
> >>>>>>>>> actually
> >>>>>>>>> making.  If I could figure out how to measure it on my GPS I'm
> >>>>>>>>> sure it
> >>>>>>>>> would show that the board helps, but with the reduction in
> >>>>>>>>> speed
> >>>>>>>>> it sure
> >>>>>>>>> doesn't seem that way.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Lee
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> MichaelT wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Lee,
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I was just thinking about bringing the centerboard up as you
> >>>>>>>>>> suggested,
> >>>>>>>>>> but have concerns.
> >>>>>>>>>> Did you flip bringing the centerboard up and down. Down when
> >>>>>>>>>> tacking
> >>>>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>> up after the tack?
> >>>>>>>>>> I remember when I forgot to let the centerboard down and
> >>>>>>>>>> all I
> >>>>>>>>>> could
> >>>>>>>>>> remember was going sideways and difficulty in making
> >>>>>>>>>> headway. In
> >>>>>>>>>> essence
> >>>>>>>>>> the boat was slipping and pushed sideways by the wind when
> >>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>> centerboard is up. I suppose as long as we don't need to be
> >>>>>>>>>> anywhere
> >>>>>>>>>> soon
> >>>>>>>>>> this is all fine.
> >>>>>>>>>> At the end I'll have to let my wife judge!
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Great suggestion!
> >>>>>>>>>> Michael
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Leland wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Michael,
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> You're getting lots of good advice.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> You'll have a little less heel with the board up.  From the
> >>>>>>>>>>> Rhodes
> >>>>>>>>>>> Owners' Site under FAQs under Rhodes vs. Com-Pac vs.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Precisions:  5.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Retract the centerboard part way in a big breeze. The
> >>>>>>>>>>> board is
> >>>>>>>>>>> intentionally modest in weight, and does not contribute
> >>>>>>>>>>> significantly
> >>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>> stability up or down. Raising the board part way will reduce
> >>>>>>>>>>> both heel
> >>>>>>>>>>> and weather helm.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> The quote refers to Precisions.  If I raise the board all
> >>>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>> way on
> >>>>>>>>>>> my
> >>>>>>>>>>> Rhodes it usually only reduces heel by about 3 degrees but
> >>>>>>>>>>> your
> >>>>>>>>>>> wife
> >>>>>>>>>>> may
> >>>>>>>>>>> appreciate it.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> In an 8-10 knot wind, lowering the boom will reduce heel
> >>>>>>>>>>> also.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> As Dave mentioned the boat sails better with two sails.
> >>>>>>>>>>> For the
> >>>>>>>>>>> amount
> >>>>>>>>>>> of wind you described you probably weren't going fast
> >>>>>>>>>>> enough to
> >>>>>>>>>>> tack.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Come off the wind enough to get up some speed and you'll
> >>>>>>>>>>> then
> >>>>>>>>>>> be able
> >>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>> turn her sharply into the wind.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> When I first got my Rhodes I typically had too much sail
> >>>>>>>>>>> out.
> >>>>>>>>>>> You
> >>>>>>>>>>> were
> >>>>>>>>>>> wise to be conservative in your sail plan, but without any
> >>>>>>>>>>> headsail
> >>>>>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>>> so little main you probably couldn't get enough speed to
> >>>>>>>>>>> tack
> >>>>>>>>>>> even if
> >>>>>>>>>>> you had come off the wind.  Last week I was in a 12 knot
> >>>>>>>>>>> wind.
> >>>>>>>>>>> On a
> >>>>>>>>>>> close reach with balanced sails with the board up and my 190
> >>>>>>>>>>> lbs of
> >>>>>>>>>>> rail
> >>>>>>>>>>> meat, I had less than 20 degrees of heel with the boom up
> >>>>>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>>> the main
> >>>>>>>>>>> reefed to 80%.  With the boom down I had the same heel with
> >>>>>>>>>>> 100% main.
> >>>>>>>>>>> I have my mainsail furling line marked for reefs at 60% and
> >>>>>>>>>>> 80%.  If I
> >>>>>>>>>>> have to reef the tiny little main beyond 60%, it's too windy
> >>>>>>>>>>> for me
> >>>>>>>>>>> (over 20 knots) and I go home.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Good luck!
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Lee
> >>>>>>>>>>> 1986 Rhodes22  At Ease
> >>>>>>>>>>> Kent Island, MD
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> david.walker5 wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Stephen,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Tacking with the jib, especially very light or heavy wind
> >>>>>>>>>>>> can be
> >>>>>>>>>>>> challenging
> >>>>>>>>>>>> too.  The problem is the jib is very powerfull and it
> >>>>>>>>>>>> wants to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> push
> >>>>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> boat
> >>>>>>>>>>>> away from the tack.  One technique that has worked for
> >>>>>>>>>>>> me is
> >>>>>>>>>>>> something
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I
> >>>>>>>>>>>> borrowed from sailing a square rigger.  When you push the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> tiller to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> lee,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> loosen the jibe immediately, but do not let the sheet fly.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> (for
> >>>>>>>>>>>> those
> >>>>>>>>>>>> interested its called scandalizing the jib)  This
> >>>>>>>>>>>> reduces the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> drive
> >>>>>>>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> sail and allows it to turn up wind.  Just as the bow comes
> >>>>>>>>>>>> into the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> wind,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> tighten the sheet a little. The wind will then backwind the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> jib and
> >>>>>>>>>>>> push the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> bow the rest of the way onto the new tack. As you come
> >>>>>>>>>>>> through
> >>>>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> wind, the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> wind on the new tack will push the sail across to the new
> >>>>>>>>>>>> tack.  In
> >>>>>>>>>>>> really
> >>>>>>>>>>>> heavy wind you may end up "in stays" or headed into the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> wind and
> >>>>>>>>>>>> start
> >>>>>>>>>>>> to be
> >>>>>>>>>>>> pushed backwards.  In that case as I said in an earlier
> >>>>>>>>>>>> post,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> shift
> >>>>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> rudder (tiller to windward) and the boat will back onto the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> new tack
> >>>>>>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>>>> start to sail.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> David Walker
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> www.davidwalkerphotography.com
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Event Specialists
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> 781-639-2707 Office
> >>>>>>>>>>>> 781-718-8690 Cell
> >>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Stephen Staum" <staum at earthlink.net>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 3:32 PM
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Partial Mainsail
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Michael,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I too have a wife who likes to sail flat. I have an '87
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> w a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 184 per
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> cent genoa. I usually start w 1/2 of the genny as the jib
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> really
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> powers this boat. Even w the full main out (alone) u will
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> struggle
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> come about. Also, if u have the full jib out in light
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> winds,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> it can
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> be
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> very difficult 2 get the jib 2 come across when coming
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> about.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> It is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> often easier 2 jibe or roll up 1/2 the jib b4 come
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> about is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> started.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Enjoy!
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Stephen Staum
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 24, 2009, at 12:47 PM, MichaelT <mticse at gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Went out with the family on Sunday and wanted to play it
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> safe.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Drew the IMF mainsail approx halfway on the boom (the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> letter
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> R on
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the sail
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wasn't showing).
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wanted to keep things simple and used no jib. Centerboard
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> was down
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> all the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> way.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The boat stayed flat as a pancake which was the desired
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> effect.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> My wife wants no heeling whatsoever. Problem I had was I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> couldn't
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tack.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It even had a hard time getting into irons and just
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> couldn't
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> cutover.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The only way I could change direction was to spin 2/3's
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> around in a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> jibe.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't want to experiment and let out more sail so we
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> enjoyed
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sailing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the next hour like this.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is this normal behaviour? What am I doing wrong?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Michael
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> View this message in context:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/Partial-Mainsail-
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tp24647946p24647946.html
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nabble.com.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> mailing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> list go
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> mailing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> list go
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
> >>>>>>>>>>>> list go
> >>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>> View this message in context:
> >>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/Partial-Mainsail-tp24647946p24681160.html
> >>>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
> >>>>>>>> list
> >>>>>>>> go to
> >>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
> >>>>>>> list go
> >>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> View this message in context:
> >>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/Partial-Mainsail-tp24647946p24685194.html
> >>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
> >>>>>> list go
> >>>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
> >>>>> go to
> >>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> View this message in context:
> >>>> http://www.nabble.com/Partial-Mainsail-tp24647946p24698152.html
> >>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >>>>
> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
> >>>> go to
> >>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
> >>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >> Lou Rosenberg
> >> Videographer
> >>
> >> Steinhardt School of Culture, Education and
> >> Human Development at NYU
> >>
> >> 239 Greene Street, Room 315
> >> lsr3 at nyu.edu
> >>
> >> (212) 998-5122
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
> >> go to
> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
> > to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > __________________________________________________
>
> __________________________________________________
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> __________________________________________________
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