[Rhodes22-list] Sailing Upwind

KUHN, LELAND LKUHN at cnmc.org
Wed Aug 25 12:36:09 EDT 2010 

Mike,

Excellent!  Can't wait to try this next time out.

Thanks!

Lee



-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Michael D.
Weisner
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:28 PM
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Sailing Upwind

Lee,

A very good description of using a GPS VMG estimate can be found at:

    VMG FOR DUMMIES
http://www.wingsailor.com/html/vmg___gps.html

Please maintain a tack that places your apparent wind downwind if  you
wish 
to keep your friends.

Mike
s/v Shanghai'd Summer ('81)
Nissequogue River, NY

From: "Leland" Wednesday, August 25, 2010 9:47 AM
>
> Rick,
>
> My wife claims I can make wind that's very apparent.
>
> Probably a poor choice of words on my part.  This is more what I
meant:
>
>>From Steve Colgate:  The fourth point was that when a boat is reaching
or
> beating, the apparent wind is of greater velocity than the true wind.
You
> are, in effect, "making your own wind." In iceboating this is an
important
> part of the resulting high speeds. Some iceboats, for instance, can
reach
> speeds five to six times the speed of the wind and can attain speeds
of 
> 120
> knots in 24 knots of wind. The faster the boat goes, the higher the
wind
> velocity it creates.
>
>
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/learning-sail-articles/18848-understanding
-apparent-wind.html
>
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/learning-sail-articles/18848-understanding
-apparent-wind.html
>
> I just found a link that stated your VMG will be better going fast off
the
> wind instead of slow into the wind, which is just the opposite of what
I
> thought.  I wonder if racers are allowed to use GPSs and calculators?
>
> Lee
>
>
>
> Blue Heron wrote:
>>
>> Lee,
>>
>> You don't "make" apparent wind.  It is no different than when you
stick
>> your
>> head out of a moving car.  If a car, or boat, heads into a wind, it
feels
>> stronger than when the wind is behind you.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 11:51 AM, KUHN, LELAND <LKUHN at cnmc.org>
wrote:
>>
>>> Ben,
>>>
>>> Glad to hear it worked.  I'm typically trying to make headway in
heavier
>>> winds but over the weekend I was trying to do so in about a five
knot
>>> wind.  I had the Genoa sheets run between the shrouds and the board
down
>>> but only seemed to be doing about 70 degrees into the wind.  I
shifted
>>> my weight to the leeward side of the boat to get more heel so the
boat
>>> would get into the groove and go faster.  I not only picked up speed
but
>>> significantly increased my windward performance.  It's probably
common
>>> sense for most sailors but it was another "Aha!" moment for me.
>>>
>>> I'm still struggling with wind VMG (velocity made good).  I
understand
>>> the theory but don't know how you'd easily determine it without a
GPS
>>> with VMG functionality.  Too much into the wind and you're going too
>>> slow and too much off the wind and you're going too far out of the
way.
>>> You'd think that reaching into the wind just before you start
slowing
>>> down would be best but that's not what the polar diagrams indicate.
Our
>>> light displacement boats pick up so much speed when we come off the
wind
>>> that it seems like we must have a better VMG by having more speed.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure but I think the apparent wind is the problem.  The
faster
>>> you go into the wind the more apparent wind you create which allows
you
>>> to go even faster, but the apparent wind also pushes you away from
the
>>> true wind.
>>>
>>> >From the J/Boat website:  A J/120 sailing at 7.2 knots, 38 degrees
off
>>> the true wind (25 degrees apparent wind angle), makes good a
velocity
>>> (VMG) of 5.7 knots straight into the wind. This is 15% faster than a
>>> boat doing 7 knots at a 45 degree true wind angle.
>>>
>>> So I think with our boats we still make better VMG by slowing down
into
>>> the wind than by speeding up off the wind.  I just can't figure out
how
>>> much speed to sacrifice.
>>>
>>> Maybe I just need to have fun, use the motor when I need it, and
>>> fugetaboudit.
>>>
>>> Lee
>>> 1986 Rhodes22  AT EASE
>>> Kent Island, MD
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of
BenCittadino
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 11:45 AM
>>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Sailing Upwind
>>>
>>>
>>> Stephen;
>>>
>>> I just ran the sheets inside the outermost shrouds and brought them
>>> through
>>> the pulleys and winches on the gunwhales. I think I need some shroud
>>> "guards" or "rollers" before I bring the Genny back past the mast by
>>> that
>>> route, but I was definitely surprised how much difference that
seemingly
>>> small adjustment made in upwind sailing.
>>>
>>> BenC
>>>
>>> Stephen Staum wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Ben,
>>> >
>>> > Did you go just inside the shrouds or to the inner track as well?
>>> >
>>> > Stephen Staum
>>> > 87 R22, Carol Lee
>>> >
>>> > Sent from my iPhone
>>> >
>>> > On Aug 23, 2010, at 6:55 PM, "Benjamin Cittadino"
>>> <BCittadino at dcs-law.com
>>> >  > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> I had two days in a row on Sandy Hook Bay in NJ this weekend, and
I
>>> >> want
>>> >> to report that I had a pleasing experience by "finally"
re-routing
>>> the
>>> >> Jib (175 Genny) sheets inside the outer shrouds to try for better
>>> >> upwind
>>> >> sailing. I have to say that I didn't expect much difference, but
I
>>> was
>>> >> delighted to get inside 45 degrees at last. I obviously didn't
let
>>> the
>>> >> Genny out to the full 175, but at 100 we flew along and I felt
like I
>>> >> could make real headway upwind. I had delayed trying the new
route
>>> for
>>> >> the sheets because I thought the sail would get all hung up in
the
>>> >> shrouds, but it's become no big deal. Try it, you'll like it.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> BenCittadino
>>> >>
>>> >> S/V Susan Kay ('93 recycled '08)
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> PS-Could not connect to Nabble today??!!
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> __________________________________________________
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>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>> --
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>>>
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>
> -- 
> View this message in context: 
> http://old.nabble.com/Sailing-Upwind-tp29517214p29532455.html
> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> __________________________________________________
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> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives
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