[Rhodes22-list] High Seas Sailing

Thu Sep 9 11:21:10 EDT 2010

Only two points to add to this discussion. The nature of waves really 
do make a huge difference. 20 knots of wind in deep water with a 
short fetch (low waves) is much more manageable than 20 knots of wind 
over shallow ground with long waves (big, steep, short period waves). 
At that point, as Lee mentioned, the mass of the waves hitting the 
bow is enough to really push our boats around. The other point is 
that extra weight in the bow will also help. We try to keep our water 
tank at least 2/3 full and store our spare anchor and chain in the 
v-berth. I would think you wouldn't want to be too bow heavy but a 
little extra weight can really make a difference.

Mary Lou
1991 R22 Fretless
Rock Hall, MD

At 10:28 AM 9/9/2010, you wrote:
>Chris,
>
>Sounds like you were doing pretty well to me.  Like Ben I usually start
>motoring if the wind gets around 20 knots.  Even if you don't need to
>make headway everything becomes such a hassle.  Keeping the boat pointed
>into the wind long enough to furl in the main frequently becomes a chore
>for me.  When I don't feel like drinking anymore it's a sure sign to
>head back to port.
>
>You asked "I am curious to hear how others have managed trying to sail
>close hauled, broad reach and run in winds between 15-20kts and with an
>angry breaking sea in the 3-4 foot range."
>
>One of the few times I consistently sailed above hull speed (6 to 6.5
>knots) was on a run with no headsail.  The boom was up and the main was
>full but it was leaning against the shrouds and unshapely.  Wind was
>probably about 20 to 25 knots.  In about a 30 to 35 knot wind I was
>doing over 3 knots with no sails out and the motor dragging in the
>water.  Don't know how much was due to the waves/current or the wind
>pushing against the transom and bulkhead.
>
>On beam and broad reaches it doesn't seem to take much wind, sail, or
>skill to get the boat moving above 5 knots.  The problem is normally the
>angle of the waves making life uncomfortable on a beam reach and
>uncontrollable (for tiller locking) on a broad reach.
>
>In a 20 knot wind I'm almost always close-hauled because I need to make
>headway.  That gives me lots of practice and that's good because I need
>it.  I hate to give advice on sailing close-hauled in high winds with
>angry seas because there are so many variables.  It makes such a
>difference in a 20 knot wind if the angry sea is just slightly peeved or
>really pissed off.  I will tell you that it's unlikely that you'll make
>any headway in a 20 knot wind if your Genoa sheets are run outside the
>shrouds.  A lot of it has to do with that angry sea pushing you away
>from the wind, but even if you have your Genoa reefed down to the size
>of bikini top (one boob), the wind is hitting your sail more from the
>side than the front and it will easily push our light bows away from the
>wind.  If the wind is strong enough that you need to reef your Genoa to
>less than 110%, you'll probably need to run your sheets between the
>shrouds if you want to make much headway.
>
>Here's a post from 2007.  The wind was "only" 12 knots and the sheets
>were run between the mast and the inner shroud.
>____________________________________________
>Jack,
>
>I stand corrected.  I actually can point that high.  And I'm not that
>good
>of a sailor.
>
>Went sailing this afternoon.  True wind was exactly 12 knots from the
>south
>just before I put the sails up and exactly 12 knots from the south just
>after I furled them in.  Apparent wind fluctuated between 10 and 15
>knots.
>Small craft advisory due to the chop, which was about 3 feet in most
>areas.
>
>Boom down.  Full main.  Genoa sheets ran across the cabin top which
>brought
>the tip of the clew to the forward shrouds (about 85% reefed).  Board
>down.
>Traveler centered but pulled so tight the end of the boom was less than
>12"
>from the traveler.
>
>Port tack on a close reach at 240 degrees with a 10 to 15 degree heel
>going
>about 3.5 to 4 knots with the tiller locked at about 3 degrees to the
>leeward side.  Starboard tack at on a close reach at 150 degrees with a
>15
>to 20 degree heel (stupid 130 lb. outboard) going about 3.5 to 4 knots
>with
>the tiller locked at about 3 degrees to the leeward side.  240 minus 150
>equals 90 divided by 2 would be 45 degrees into the wind, but that was
>on a
>close reach, not on a beat, close-hauled.  I easily got another 5
>degrees
>without luffing the sails on a beat.
>
>Considering the amount of wind and chop, I think the Rhodes22 will point
>better than 40 degrees with a little less wind and a lot less chop.
>
>One other minor factor.  I was single-handling so I only had 180 lbs. of
>human ballast.  Okay, maybe 190 lbs., but I was standing most of the
>time as
>opposed to sitting or hiking-out.
>
>We really do have a well-designed sailboat.
>
>Lee
>____________________________________________________
>
>Chris--I'm not in to extreme sailing as much as you are but I'm willing
>to make an exception.  Just give me a call when you're ready to go out.
>
>Lee
>1986 Rhodes22  AT EASE
>Kent Island, MD
>202.476.5369
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of cowie
>Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 5:49 PM
>To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] High Seas Sailing
>
>
>I went sailing this past Monday from Herrington Harbor to Thomas Point
>light
>and back.  The wind was blowing pretty steady and over 10 kts the entire
>time.  At about 10 kts I found I could reasonably manage a full main
>with
>the boom down and the 175 Genoa out about 1/3 of the way.  Between a
>close
>haul and broad reach I was easily running over 5 kts pushing the gps
>beyond
>6 as I raced down the following sea.  My sail back from Thomas Point
>Light
>required tacking several times on as close haul as I could get.  At this
>point the wind was kicking up to at least 15 kts gust closer to 20.
>This
>much wind out of the South and an outgoing tide made for some pretty
>significant sea action.  I found the best I could sail with that much
>wind
>was about 130-140 degrees.  I did position the jib sheets betwen the
>outer
>and inner shrouds back to the winch and cleat and this helped some.  At
>a
>130 degree tack I was able to manage between 2.8 and 3.5 kts pounding
>into
>the building seas.  I began to fall off the wind as I made my approach
>to
>Herring Bay and the shallows of Long Bar aggrivated the seas even more.
>A
>couple of waves came crashing over the cockpit as I experimented trying
>to
>head up, broadside or run with the increasingly angry sea.  I am curious
>to
>hear how others have managed trying to sail close hauled, broad reach
>and
>run in winds between 15-20kts and with an angry breaking sea in the 3-4
>foot
>range.  I think I could manage to handle a little more wind than this
>but
>not in an aggitated sea state.
>
>
>--
>View this message in context:
>http://old.nabble.com/High-Seas-Sailing-tp29642267p29642267.html
>Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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