[Rhodes22-list] Battery Advice

Goodness spreadgoodnews at gmail.com
Thu Apr 5 14:16:36 EDT 2012


Nice point.  Perhaps agm's are worthwhile if maintainence can be dispensed with.  The best price i have seen is from northern tool and equipment.



On Apr 5, 2012, at 11:16 AM, Mary Lou Troy <mtroy at atlanticbb.net> wrote:

> I thought I'd put in one reason to consider AGMs for R22s. The 
> location of the battery may vary considerably from boat to boat. Ours 
> is wedged between the water tank and the bulkhead that supports the 
> v-berth. We have it tied down but there is no room for a battery box 
> or tray in there. It's also not all that accessible for maintenance. 
> So no-spill, low maintenance were important to us. We're on our 
> second AGM, our 3rd battery in 14 years. The first was a wet cell 
> that died early maybe from lack of maintenance. We charge from shore 
> power and use a charger that accommodates an AGM - I think we're on 
> our second charger.
> 
> Mary Lou
> 1991 R22 Fretless
> Rock Hall, MD
> 
> 
> At 11:53 PM 4/4/2012, you wrote:
>> As i understand AGM (absorbed glass matt) batteries were originally 
>> invented for US fighter jets.  They can spin 360 without spilling 
>> acid. (very beneficial for offshore circumnavigators!). Are lighter 
>> (yet larger) than equivalent amp/hr lead acid and have a similar 
>> lifespan. (thus better for light displacement downwind planing 
>> raceboats and catamarans). Turns out they use less lead, but are a 
>> little harder to make ($$-??)
>> They love trickle charging but can still off gas and crack(thus leak 
>> and fail) if charged too quickly with high amp chargers.  A regular 
>> battery is more resistant to this but only if water levels are 
>> maintained.  Either way ventilation for hydrogen gas must still be 
>> provided to reduce explosion hazard. (hydrogen high LP gas low)
>> In summary i dont see the benefit for AGM in the Rhodes except for 
>> gee whiz hob snobbery.  If you have the extra money i suggest 
>> donation to help promote sailing among kids or you other favorite!
>> 
>> 
>> On Apr 3, 2012, at 7:20 PM, Bob Keller <r22yankeeclipper at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> I'm sure that AGM batteries are better than the standard 
>> lead-acid types but the cost difference is so large that I have 
>> never taken the plunge.  I use two of the largest Wal-Mart marine 
>> batteries that they sell - I believe they are group 27 - and they 
>> cost $85 each.  They last 5 years and you can almost put it on your 
>> calendar that they will last 5 years.  Both of mine are in the 
>> cabin and I never have to add water, except when they are 
>> new.  Can't explain that but I check them every year or even a 
>> couple times a year. My batteries are each on solar panels with a 
>> charge regulator and I also charge them when my 8hp electric start, 
>> 2 stroke Tohatsu is running.  I have more electronics than most and 
>> my batteries never run down including: autopilot, GPS, wind 
>> instrument, depth & knot meter, stereo, 
>> refrigerator/freezer...etc.   When I recently looked at buying AGM 
>> batteries for the boat at $230 each, the salesperson said they 
>> would last 5 years as did the information I read a!
>> bo!
>>> ut them.  Much as I wanted to buy them and have the "best", I 
>> could not find a good reason and my cheapness ultimately won 
>> out.  I buy Wal-Mart batteries for everything I own - cars and 
>> boats.   Regarding Rummy's comments, Sea Doos are totally different 
>> animals and it is probably worth the money for those things...Bob K
>>>> Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 10:10:55 -0700
>>>> From: LKUHN at cnmc.org
>>>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battery Advice
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Rummy,
>>>> 
>>>> Just when I thought I knew more than I needed to know about batteries.
>>>> 
>>>> So for my purpose would I best be served getting a dual purpose 
>> battery for
>>>> the one connected to the motor?
>>>> 
>>>> I like the idea of AGM long lasting maintenance and spill free--might be
>>>> worth the extra cost.
>>>> 
>>>> The guy at West Marine who knew nothing about batteries did show me a $30
>>>> solar panel controller.
>>>> 
>>>> It's all so confusing that I should probably just take the "What 
>> me worry?"
>>>> attitude and ignore my batteries for another seven years.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks!
>>>> 
>>>> Lee
>>>> 
>>>> p.s.  Last night I was admiring my neighbor's new $10,000+ 
>> canvas job (just
>>>> the cockpit not sail covers) on his Catalina46 and even though 
>> he had three
>>>> windows in the top I asked if it were difficult to view his sail 
>> shape.  He
>>>> switched on the giant monitor on his helm pedestal and showed me 
>> a beautiful
>>>> view of his deck from the masthead camera.  No problem seeing his sails.
>>>> Didn't ask him if he paid extra to get AGM batteries.
>>>> 
>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>> Lee,
>>>> Correction on one point. AGM batteries will last longer than lead acid
>>>> batteries. They cost more, but I like the maintenance free part. 
>> I use only
>>>> agm  batteries in our SeaDoo and it has more cranking power than 
>> a lead acid
>>>> battery.  I have two deep cycle batteries on Rum Runner and only use shore
>>>> power for  charging. I know from personal experience that without a charge
>>>> controller,  solar panels can easily overcharge a battery. You 
>> can also buy
>>>> "dual purpose"  batteries which allow for deep discharge and also give you
>>>> cranking power for an  electric starter. It all depends on how 
>> you use your
>>>> boats power.
>>>> 
>>>> Rummy
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Leland wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Rob,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Great website with an incredible amount of information.  It's 
>> amazing what
>>>>> I know and don't know about batteries now.  :)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Looks like I can forget about checking amps.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Looks like my battery gave a "false capacity" because it was dead.
>>>>> 
>>>>> To summarize, I should ensure my voltage remains between 12.06 and 12.42,
>>>>> approximately.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Lee
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>> ___________________________________________________________________________
>>>>> Lee,
>>>>> If you had 13.4 volts on a battery not being actively charged, something
>>>>> doesn't sound right with that battery.  A fully charged battery should be
>>>>> around 12.7 volts. But then you did say your battery was dead.
>>>>> 
>>>>> State of Charge    12 Volt battery    Volts per Cell
>>>>> 100%            12.7            2.12
>>>>> 90%            12.5            2.08
>>>>> 80%            12.42        2.07
>>>>> 70%            12.32        2.05
>>>>> 60%            12.20        2.03
>>>>> 50%            12.06        2.01
>>>>> 40%            11.9            1.98
>>>>> 30%            11.75        1.96
>>>>> 20%            11.58        1.93
>>>>> 10%            11.31        1.89
>>>>> 0            10.5            1.75
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Much more on batteries, should you care to read.  I agree a group 27 deep
>>>>> cycle is appropriate for our boats.  Gel and AGM might require less
>>>>> maintenance, but they are costly. - rob
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm#Top
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Leland wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> David and Geoff,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Went to West Marine and Western Auto yesterday.  I guess it depends on
>>>>>> the individual sales/service person, but the Western Auto staff seem to
>>>>>> know far more about boat mechanics.  We live in a fishing community so I
>>>>>> guess West Marine is for recreational boaters and Western Auto is for
>>>>>> working boaters.  Last month West Marine couldn't figure out what size
>>>>>> spark plug wrench I needed (18mm).  Last night they checked 
>> the volts but
>>>>>> not the amps on my dead battery and declared it was a 
>> connection problem.
>>>>>> Sounds like something I would do.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Anyway if you have a 9.9, 4-stroke Mercury you'll need a 12V deep cell
>>>>>> with about 465 amps of marine cranking and 350 amps of cold cranking.  A
>>>>>> starting battery might be better for your electric-start 
>> outboard but not
>>>>>> for your motor lift.  Very important is the group size which tells
>>>>>> nothing more than the physical size of your battery.  You want to ensure
>>>>>> it fits in the tray that Stan installed.  Mine was a group 27 (27G).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>> http://www.mercurymarine.com/service-and-support/storage-and-maintenance/faqs/outboards/?category=electrical
>>>>>> 
>> http://www.mercurymarine.com/service-and-support/storage-and-maintenance/faqs/outboards/?category=electrical 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I basically bought the same battery that Stan gave me.  The Western Auto
>>>>>> mechanic told me that if it lasted seven years without maintenance then
>>>>>> it was the right battery.  Like Geoff he said to check the battery
>>>>>> acid/distilled water level once a year.  He said it was impossible to
>>>>>> overcharge the battery with the outboard or solar panels.  If you use a
>>>>>> charger without an automatic cut-off you could overcharge the battery
>>>>>> (boils the acid/water).  Charging the battery if needed is a good idea,
>>>>>> but you need to check the volts and the amps.  My dead battery had 13.4
>>>>>> volts but hardly any amperage.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Gel and AGM batteries cost more and may not last as long.  Big advantage
>>>>>> is that they're maintenance-free and won't leak.  Just ensure your
>>>>>> fluid-filled battery covers are on tight for those bury-the-rail heels.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Good luck!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Lee
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>> _________________________________________________________________________________
>>>>>> I'd be interested in the same.  Original GBI batteries going into their
>>>>>> seventh year, and the boat has been out of the water for almost two
>>>>>> years.
>>>>>> I'll pull the plastic shrink wrap off next weekend and see if the motor
>>>>>> will turn over...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> David
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 11:35 AM, Geoff Farrell
>>>>>> <geoffreylfarrell at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I have the same setup as you do. My batteries stay charged with the
>>>>>>> solar panels. It's interesting to note that although I stored my boat
>>>>>>> under a roof from April 15 through Dec 1 my batteries were fully
>>>>>>> charged when I got the boat out of storage. Seems the ambient light
>>>>>>> was enough to keep them topped off.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I do notice that my batteries use a lot of water, perhaps because they
>>>>>>> are constantly being charged by the panels. I was warned by an old
>>>>>>> salt to check the fluid often, and he was right.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Recently, I purchased a battery meter that simply plugs into the 12V
>>>>>>> outlet over the galley. It monitors the batteries during charging and
>>>>>>> also while they are being used, and seems to work great. I can measure
>>>>>>> voltage drop while using various combinations of equipment (radio, nav
>>>>>>> lights, etc.). I have been very pleased that on bright sunny days I
>>>>>>> can use the VHF radio and my Ipod (for navigation and music) and
>>>>>>> charge an external portable speaker without any battery drain.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> My motor is hard wired to battery 2. When cruising I set my battery
>>>>>>> switch to battery 1 to keep battery 2 fully charged for restarting the
>>>>>>> engine. I haven't, however, done any overnighters so my battery use is
>>>>>>> minimal.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I still have Stan's original batteries and so I would also be
>>>>>>> interested in what the best replacement batteries are for 
>> when mine die.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Leland wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Need some battery advice.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Probably should have replaced my battery long ago.  When I need to
>>>>>>> pull-start my outboard in the marina it usually recharges the battery
>>>>>>> enough that I can use the electric start when I'm ready to come in.
>>>>>>> Didn't happen yesterday.  By the time I unscrewed everything to get to
>>>>>>> the flywheel I was dangerously close to running into the causeway
>>>>>>> rip-rap.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Easy answer would be to replace the battery with the one Stan put in.
>>>>>>> Wasn't sure if there was something better out there now.  I've got the
>>>>>>> electric motor winch which I assume uses a ridiculous amount of juice.
>>>>>>> I have one battery hardwired to the motor which is linked to a second
>>>>>>> house battery.  Both batteries are linked to two solar panels.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I've taken zero care of the batteries since I bought the boat seven
>>>>>>> years ago.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Should I be concerned about the solar panels overcharging the 
>> batteries?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Should I periodically charge the batteries to full capacity?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Any advice on what battery would be best and what care it needs?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Lee
>>>>>>> 1986 Rhodes22  AT EASE
>>>>>>> Kent Island, MD
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> View this message in context: 
>> http://old.nabble.com/Battery-Advice-tp33544997p33545034.html
>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>> 
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