[Rhodes22-list] centerboard attachment

Ric Stott ric at steelbone.com
Mon Mar 17 10:52:06 EDT 2014 

My story about the keel boat was a story, a worse case. Do I think it  
could happen, yes I do.
The facts remain:
MY CB cap cracked mid season and is bad - it filled the bilge to the  
floorboards daily.
I don't have an automatic bilge pump.
I have to fix it.
I had never had it apart.
I never knew about rubber hose or PVC pipe to prevent The CB from  
rising in its channels - thank you list.
It might have happened by running aground.
It could happen if the CB was not fully raised and the boat was forced  
backward by the wind or in the waves on a shallow mooring.
Other situations could cause the same thing; backing up and hitting  
something or "a whole lot of other . . ." unintended situations.
I'm not and engineer - brain heels to port.
I'm an architect - brain heels to starboard. - typically has right-of- 
way.
Sailboats are one of the purest embodiments of "Form follows  
Function" (an axiom of the Modern Movement)
I'll test my sailing AND my drinking skills with Rummy's any time,  
albeit never both at once.
I enjoy Rummy's humor, enthusiasm and participation on the list.
I hope we get to meet someday.
Ric
s/v Dadventure


On Mar 17, 2014, at 10:07 AM, sprocket80 wrote:

> This is exactly why Roger left.
>
> It is not always about the Zen, or another excuse to drink. Some  
> people enjoy the practical and technical aspects of sailing...with  
> or without libation.
> -- 
> Sent from my Android phone with mail.com Mail. Please excuse my  
> brevity.
>
> Dennis <mcneelyd at site-solutions.com> wrote:
>
> Easy on the engineers, Rummie. Some engineers do their best work  
> with rum in
> hand.
>
> Dennis
> Magic Moments
> Thawing out over the Detroit River
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of
> R22RumRunner at aol.com
> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2014 4:48 PM
> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] centerboard attachment
>
> Ric,
> Really? You think that it would go through the centerboard cap?The  
> bottom of
> the old style center board is rounded. The odds of taking a perfect  
> direct
> hit with no forward motion are so remote I won't take the time to  
> calculate
> it. Again, this is a what if scenario without it ever having  
> happened in my
> Rhodes life. I have seen a whole lot of other things go wrong while
> sailing, but do not try to find a scenario that finds fault with our  
> Rhodes
> where one does not exist. Give me a real life experience and we will  
> try to
> find a reason for it happening and why and try not to do it again.  
> There is
> nothing wrong with either centerboard design in my opinion and most  
> of the
> Rhodes nation would agree. Are you an engineer by any chance? I have  
> found
> that engineers do not make very good sailors. They tend to over think
> everything and forget why they are out sailing in the first place:  
> to drink
> alcohol. Massive quantities of alcohol.
>
> Rummy
>
>
> In a message dated 3/15/2014 4:36:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> R22RumRunner at aol.com writes:
>
> Rhodies use GPS and never, ever sail in foggy weather. Blue skies and
> sunshine.
>
> Rummy
>
>
> In a message dated 3/15/2014 1:17:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> cover-man at comcast.net writes:
>
> Guys,
>
> A very good point by Stan...
>
> Art
>
> On Mar 7, 2014 9:34 AM, Stan Spitzer <stan at rhodes22.com> wrote:
>>
>> a lot of misinformation here but am too busy to infringe on your fun
>> - just want to remind all that no one is talking about the
>> combination Keel/Diamondboard boats and that you old timers can get
>> the same pivoting benefits effect by simply sailing with your prior
>> style board being kept raked slightly aft. . . . . or you can buy a
>> fixed keel boat and bite your tongue.
>>
>> ss
>>
>>
>> On 3/7/14, 8:51 AM, Ric Stott wrote:
>>> Hmm!
>>> I'm very grateful for this thread and this communication.
>>> I see this as an inherent and dangerous weakness in the boat.
>>> I was sailing in a keel boat once long ago. We were on our way to a
>>> race in Fisher's Island sound.
>>> It was foggy and before GPS, we proudly knew where we were, but not
>>> to the nearest yard.
>>> There are some tall rocks close to the edge of the channel in
>>> otherwise very deep water.
>>> There was a 2 ft chop on a 2 foot swell from offshore and it was
>>> low tide.
>>> The wind had dropped off and we were moving only a knot or two,
>>> bobbing in the bumps.
>>> Cocky and content, alert and on watch, we were cruising along with
> the
>
>>> chute up.
>>> Suddenly, the boat dropped off a wave on the keel came down on a
> rock.
>>> We hit so hard I bit my tung bloody from the impact. The mast and
>>> rigging twanged like it broke. We quickly checked the bilge fearing
>>> the worse, but to everyones surprise - no leaks.
>>> An underwater inspection revealed a big dent on the bottom of the
> lead
>>> keel.
>>> If that happened in a Rhodes 22, it would have driven the CB right
>>> through the cap and flooded the boat.
>>> No wonder Stan builds in floatation.
>>>
>>> There must be a solution here.
>>> What holds the garden hose in place, anybody know?
>>>
>>> Ric
>>> Dadventure
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 6, 2014, at 9:58 PM, cjlowe at sssnet.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have a different take on some of these issues, don't know if I'm
>>>> right,
>>>> probably just a different take. I think I remember someone on the
> list
>>>> saying the pcv pieces slide on each side of the cb pin and act as a
>>>> sacrificial bushing , so the stainless steel pivot pin doesn't eat
>>>> out the
>>>> fiberglass in the side and bottom of the grove. Hope I didn't dream
>>>> that,
>>>> because I spent a lot of time making them bushings, mine didn't  
>>>> have
>>>> them.
>>>> I'm not sure trying to limit the cb's vertical movement is the
> best
>>>> idea. I'm thinking anything you put in the channels has a chance of
>>>> falling out and jambing the cb travel. Anything hard screwed in the
>>>> channels has a good chance of tearing big holes in the cb trunk and
>>>> taking out both sides of the cb cap. If you think fixing the cb cap
>>>> was
>>>> a pain, ask Lou how much fun it is to do repairs inside the
>>>> centerboard
>>>> trunk.
>>>> I'm thinking the best bet is to not anchor/moor in shallow water,
>>>> don't
>>>> motor backward in shallow water, and NEVER EVER splash the boat
> unless
>>>> the cb pendant is cleated with the cb in the UP position. Any other
>>>> ides
>>>> on this are more than welcome.
>>>>
>>>> Jerry
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I have changed the title of this exchange as it appear the topic
> has
>>>>> morphed
>>>>> from the matter of the mast post base to the question of how the
>>>>> centreboard
>>>>> is attached and how this might result in damage to the cap if the
>>>>> centreboard is not held in the up position when launching.
>>>>>
>>>>> My centreboard pivot pin rides in two vertical channels in the
>>>>> housing
>>>>> that
>>>>> are about 5" long. Those grooves are very clear in the second  
>>>>> photo
>>>>> that
>>>>> Rob
>>>>> Lowe just posted. As I saw it, the channels would allow the pin to
> be
>>>>> dropped down to the proper position without the need to insert the
>>>>> pin
>>>>> from
>>>>> the outside of the housing. It now occurs to me that this design
>>>>> might
>>>>> also have been intended to allow the pivot pin to rise up inside
> the
>>>>> housing
>>>>> should the centreboard hit something. Makes sense although perhaps
>>>>> not if
>>>>> this would allow the centreboard to damage the cap.
>>>>>
>>>>> In my case two length of .5 inch rigid PVC pipe were placed in
> each
>>>>> channel
>>>>> above the pin. It appears that these pipes were intended to
> prevent
>>>>> the
>>>>> pin
>>>>> from rising up. As I mentioned earlier, I was pretty sure that the
>>>>> cap had
>>>>> never been removed and assumed, therefore, that the pieces of pipe
>>>>> were
>>>>> part
>>>>> of the original design. Now I am beginning to wonder if this was
>>>>> some kind
>>>>> of retrofit by a previous owner who, perhaps, was responding to
>>>>> damage
>>>>> caused when the centreboard was pushed into the cap.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am inclined to leave the pieces of pipe out when I reinstall the
>>>>> centreboard or perhaps search for something that might act as a
> shock
>>>>> absorber but still allow the board to raise up if it hits a solid
>>>>> object.
>>>>> Perhaps shorter lengths of flexible plastic tubing would work.
>>>>>
>>>>> Has anyone else found a similar arrangement in the pivot pin
> channel?
>>>>> Any thoughts?
>>>>>
>>>>> Graham
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Lowe, Rob
>>>>> Sent: March-06-14 3:13 PM
>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Searching the archives and settled
>>>>> step >now
>>>>> mast step cb leak
>>>>>
>>>>> It seems like there are various versions of CB and the lift
>>>>> systems. Here
>>>>> are some photos that someone (I forgot who, sorry!) posted of  
>>>>> their
>>>>> CB
>>>>> taken
>>>>> apart. - rob
>>>>>
>>>>> h
> ttp://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attch/200507/14/Getaway1.jpg
>
>>>>>
> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attch
> /200507/14/Getaway2.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Ric Stott
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2014 2:00 PM
>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Searching the archives and settled
>>>>> step >now
>>>>> mast step cb leak
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks Graham
>>>>> It might have been cracked when they loaded it onto a trailer to
>>>>> launch
>>>>> last
>>>>> spring and delivered it to me.
>>>>> It was a transport trailer.
>>>>> Sam replied that the pendant had to be cleated when trailered, or
>>>>> it would
>>>>> cause a crack.
>>>>> I'd like to understand the mechanics of that reply.
>>>>> Is the top or aft edge of the CB that close to the cap, and what
>>>>> component
>>>>> would allow it to move vertically, a hinge pin?
>>>>> Is there a CB diagram anywhere?
>>>>> I think it was leaking, but very little until later in the season
>>>>> then
>>>>> - after a storm, it got much worse.
>>>>> The boat may have been on the bottom or bounced on the bottom at a
>>>>> very
>>>>> low
>>>>> tide.
>>>>> I'll take it apart when it warms up.
>>>>> Pendant - Braided nylon is very stretchy - is that what we want?
>>>>> Ric
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 6, 2014, at 1:24 PM, Graham Stewart wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> _____________________________________________
>
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>
>>>>>
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>
>>>>>
>>>>
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>
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>
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