[Rhodes22-list] Soul of the sole - and Stan's info

The Rhodes 22 Email List rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Sat Jan 17 16:40:21 EST 2015


   Graham, et al,
   The stringer construction I described was in a 1974 hull.
   Todd T.
   --
   Sent from my Android phone with [1]mail.com Mail. Please excuse my
   brevity.

   The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:

     Thanks Rick.
     I didn't think this would be such a difficult question but given
     that a
     number of us are in the process of rebuilding the floor structure
     and others
     have had to do so in the past, it would be great to get a
     definitive answer
     about how the boats of different vintage were built, or should be
     built.
     I think, however, I have found my answer from a message that Stan
     posted on
     June 5, 2013 with the subject "Educational Rebuttal" in which he
     very
     helpfully detailed much of the evolution of the R22 over the years.
     Here is
     the section of that message dealing with hull stiffness and floor
     stringers:
     "In those days of simplified pricing, it was by the pound - glass
     and resin
     used. The lighter the boat the more competitive, price wise. The
     Ventures
     came along and made this building, an art form. In water it did not
     seem to
     matter - on land the art form had its weak points, particularly on
     trailers.
     In my fifties standing in the lazaret, feeling the flexing hull
     bottom
     underfoot, was unnerving. Molding the Rhodes keel as an integrated
     part of
     the hull itself, made the Rhodes mid-ship bottom, naturally stiff,
     whereas
     competitive boats bolted on their keels. Few boats had flotation.
     Those
     that did accomplished it with chunks of bought foam planks, as we
     ourselves
     did - in our early days; until it dawned on us to marry the two by
     molding
     the foam to fit the hull, then glass it in to stiffen the cockpit
     and bow
     sections of the boat bottom. It also dawned on us that a modest
     redesign of
     the floor unit stringers and their glassing in, added more bottom
     stiffness.
     By the time we moved the making of the hulls to our own shop, we
     had matured
     enough to have given up on the price wars. We started to lay up the
     port
     side hull glass so it continued on across the bottom, and the
     starboard side
     glass lay up so it too continued on across the bottom. With the
     hull sides
     extraordinarily stiff from the Rhodes unusual compound curved
     flared hull
     shape, now its bottom was extraordinarily stiff from being twice
     the
     thickness of the sides. The hulls we build today in our own
     facility are so
     extraordinarily stiff that we lift the boats by their bow eye and
     transom
     eyes and boat shape shows no deflection. This amazing difference
     from our
     early boats /is/ probably overkill because I do not know of any
     other
     builder who moves their boats around supported at only its two
     extremes."
     So it seems that hull stiffness is a good thing and that older
     boats might
     benefit from glassed-in stringers more than the newer ones.
     I wish Stan would write the book he keeps musing about. He is a
     great writer
     and has a story to tell that few could equal.
     Graham
     -----Original Message-----
     From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
     [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of The Rhodes
     22 Email
     List
     Sent: January-16-15 2:19 PM
     To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
     Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Soul of the sole
     Graham,
     Glassing stringers to the hull is common in the industry. The resin
     used to
     fill the glass mat is the same resin used to build the outer hull,
     thus
     matching elasticity. Often the purpose of the wood is just to
     establish
     form while glassing. I helped a friend cut into a stringer of his
     25 year
     old Jeneau to box around space needed for a new A/C compressor. The
     wood
     had turned to cardboard, but the stringer was fine.
     In Todd's case, I expect his stringers are attached not with epoxy,
     but with
     an adhesive for that purpose, like 3M 5200.
     Rick
     On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 12:40 PM, The Rhodes 22 Email List <
     rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
     > Rick:
     >
     > Are not the stringers glassed to the hull already? Certainly mine
     were
     > so I have assumed that was the original construction. If not, I
     would
     > like to know how they were installed.
     >
     > You are right about sealing all holes with epoxy.
     >
     > Graham
     >
     >
     > -----Original Message-----
     > From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
     > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of The
     Rhodes 22
     > Email List
     > Sent: January-15-15 8:10 PM
     > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
     > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Soul of the sole
     >
     > Graham,
     >
     > I don't think any quality boat builder has ever bonded a
     fiberglass
     > hull to stringers with epoxy. Stringers are rigid, fiberglass
     hulls are
     flexible.
     > Since epoxy cannot absorb flex, the hull would be prone to crack
     along
     > the edges of the stringers bonded with epoxy.
     >
     > Another caveat on epoxy is using it to coat wood. Anything that
     keeps
     > water out, keeps water in. If you coat stringers with epoxy, you
     will
     > need to follow the same sealing protocol when drilling holes into
     > epoxied stringers as you do with the wood cored deck. It would be
     > more convenient to coat your new stringers with a bilge
     primer/sealer.
     >
     > Rick
     >
     > On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 1:39 PM, The Rhodes 22 Email List <
     > rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
     >
     > > Bob:
     > > I think any of your alternatives might work but when I install
     mine
     > > next summer I intend to use epoxy with fibreglass tape for
     these
     reasons:
     > > 1, I have done a lot of work with epoxy and am comfortable
     using it
     > > and I have it along with the fillers on hand, 2, wood
     adequately
     > > encapsulated in epoxy (3+ coats) should be impervious to rot
     > > permitting the use of less expensive wood, 3, bonded to the
     hull the
     > > stringers would add very significantly to the rigidity of the
     hull,
     > > and 4, the stringers will not flex and therefore will not come
     loose.
     > >
     > > I don't know how important point three is but given that the
     > > original stringers were boned to the hull with cloth and
     polyester
     > > resin, I would feel safer doing the same. Polyester is the
     other
     > > choice. It is much cheaper than epoxy but not a strong and not
     > > impervious to water vapour.
     > >
     > > Graham
     > >
     > >
     > > -----Original Message-----
     > > From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
     > > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of The
     Rhodes
     > > 22 Email List
     > > Sent: January-15-15 1:05 PM
     > > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
     > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Soul of the sole
     > >
     > > Ok let me stir the pot again. Should i bed my new stringers in
     5200
     > > or epoxy them in or fiberglass tape and resin??
     > > Thoughts anyone?
     > > Bob
     > >
     > > > On Jan 15, 2015, at 12:07 PM, The Rhodes 22 Email List
     > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
     > > >
     > > > 5200 is also permanent! Don't use it if you think you might
     ever
     > > > want or need to remove it.
     > > >
     > > > Graham
     > > >
     > > >
     > > >
     > > > -----Original Message-----
     > > > From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
     > > > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of The
     > > > Rhodes
     > > > 22 Email List
     > > > Sent: January-15-15 10:04 AM
     > > > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
     > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Soul of the sole
     > > >
     > > > Bob,
     > > >
     > > > 3M 5200 is an adhesive, not a sealant. A silicone sealant
     will
     > > > give you better results.
     > > >
     > > > Rick
     > > >
     > > > On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 9:55 AM, The Rhodes 22 Email List <
     > > > rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
     > > >
     > > >> Graham: Yes that is what i meant. These boats have a
     notoriously
     > > >> leaky hull to deck joint. Stan explained it was due to the
     > > >> workers ineptitude he had applying the joint caulk during
     those
     years.
     > > >> They probably caulked the seam after the hull and deck were
     > > >> fastened instead of caulking both sides then putting the
     sandwich
     > > >> together and just
     > > > wiping away the excess.
     > > >> I am going to remove the rail, clean out as much old caulk
     as i
     > > >> can and then seal it with 3m 5200 and re-attach the rub
     rail. It
     > > >> shouldnt leak any more. I did this once before on an 80's
     era
     > > >> boat and it worked
     > > > great.
     > > >> Shortcuts were happening in every industry back then.
     > > >>
     > > >>>> On Jan 15, 2015, at 9:43 AM, The Rhodes 22 Email List <
     > > >>> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
     > > >>>
     > > >>> I doubt that it is the rub rail that is leaking. If it is
     > > >>> leaking through the screw holes you might get away with
     just
     > > >>> removing the screws one at a time and reinserting with
     sealant.
     > > >>> It is more likely that the leak is
     > > >> behind
     > > >>> the rub rail where the deck and hull join.
     > > >>>
     > > >>> Graham
     > > >>>
     > > >>>
     > > >>> -----Original Message-----
     > > >>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
     > > >>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of
     The
     > > >>> Rhodes
     > > >>> 22
     > > >> Email
     > > >>> List
     > > >>> Sent: January-15-15 6:56 AM
     > > >>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
     > > >>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Soul of the sole
     > > >>>
     > > >>> Thanks Rummy.
     > > >>> Yes i already have the bleach and scrub brush out there. I
     am
     > > >>> going to
     > > >> do
     > > >>> the rub rail first though. Very leaky boat!
     > > >>> Bob
     > > >>>
     > > >>>>> On Jan 15, 2015, at 5:06 AM, The Rhodes 22 Email List
     > > >>>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
     > > >>>>
     > > >>>> I'm sure you are aware of this,but the photo shows a great
     deal
     > > >>>> of
     > > > mold.
     > > >>>> You might want to clean the area really good with a soapy
     > > >>>> bleach solution prior to installing the new stringers.
     > > >>>>
     > > >>>> Rummy
     > > >>>>
     > > >>>>
     > > >>>> In a message dated 1/14/2015 9:29:05 P.M. Eastern Standard
     > > >>>> Time, rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org writes:
     > > >>>>
     > > >>>>[2]
     http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/201
     > > >>>> 50
     > > >>>> 11
     > > >>>> 4/6
     > > >>>> 474727
     > > >>>> 0/attachment.JPG
     > > >>>> __________________________________________________
     > > >>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
     > > >>>>[3] http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
     > > >>>>
     > > >>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list
     and
     > > >>>> archives go to[4] http://www.rhodes22.org/list
     > > >>>> __________________________________________________
     > > >>>
     > > >>> __________________________________________________
     > > >>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
     > > >>>[5] http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
     > > >>>
     > > >>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list
     and
     > > >>> archives
     > > >> go to
     > > >>>[6] http://www.rhodes22.org/list
     > > >>> __________________________________________________
     > > >>>
     > > >>> __________________________________________________
     > > >>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
     > > >>[7] http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
     > > >>>
     > > >>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list
     and
     > > >>> archives
     > > >> go to[8] http://www.rhodes22.org/list
     > > >>> __________________________________________________
     > > >>
     > > >> __________________________________________________
     > > >> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
     > > >>[9] http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
     > > >>
     > > >> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list
     and
     > > >> archives go to[10] http://www.rhodes22.org/list
     > > >> __________________________________________________
     > > > __________________________________________________
     > > > To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
     > > >[11] http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
     > > >
     > > > For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
     > > > archives go to[12] http://www.rhodes22.org/list
     > > > __________________________________________________
     > > >
     > > > __________________________________________________
     > > > To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
     > > >[13] http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
     > > >
     > > > For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
     > > > archives go to[14] http://www.rhodes22.org/list
     > > > __________________________________________________
     > >
     > > __________________________________________________
     > > To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
     > >[15] http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
     > >
     > > For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
     > > archives go to[16] http://www.rhodes22.org/list
     > > __________________________________________________
     > >
     > > __________________________________________________
     > > To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
     > >[17] http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
     > >
     > > For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
     > > archives go to[18] http://www.rhodes22.org/list
     > > __________________________________________________
     > >
     > __________________________________________________
     > To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
     >[19] http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
     >
     > For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
     archives
     > go to[20] http://www.rhodes22.org/list
     > __________________________________________________
     >
     > __________________________________________________
     > To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
     >[21] http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
     >
     > For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
     archives
     > go to[22] http://www.rhodes22.org/list
     > __________________________________________________
     >
     __________________________________________________
     To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
     [23]http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
     For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
     archives go to
     [24]http://www.rhodes22.org/list
     __________________________________________________
     __________________________________________________
     To subscribe/unsubscribe go to[25]
     http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
     For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
     archives go to[26] http://www.rhodes22.org/list
     __________________________________________________

References

   1. http://mail.com/
   2. http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/201
   3. http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
   4. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
   5. http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
   6. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
   7. http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
   8. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
   9. http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
  10. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
  11. http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
  12. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
  13. http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
  14. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
  15. http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
  16. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
  17. http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
  18. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
  19. http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
  20. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
  21. http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
  22. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
  23. http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
  24. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
  25. http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
  26. http://www.rhodes22.org/list


More information about the Rhodes22-list mailing list