[Rhodes22-list] spongy cockpit sole

Sat Oct 17 12:30:55 EDT 2015

This is extremely helpful. Thanks for posting.

Larry Allen
Makai
Sarasota

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From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
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Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 12:15 PM
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Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] spongy cockpit sole

Steve:

I would expect, but don't know for certain, that the raised area of the sole
is plywood and under that is the foam flotation. 

Yesterday I was too quick to jump to the conclusion that you need to remove
the entire sole. Before you cut out the cockpit sole I would try to
determine whether the spongy floor is because the plywood core is rotten or
just delaminated from the skin. I had that problem with my foredeck and
assumed the core was rotten so I cut the deck off and removed the core only
to find that except in one small area the core was solid - just delaminated
from the skin. I could have saved myself a ton of work had I known to check
for delamination first. I think that older boats in particular are subject
to delamination as the sealant used to attach the skin to the core material
was spotty to say the least. 

If the core is rotten then you need to replace it but if it is just
delaminated you can drill holes through the skin into the space above the
core material into which you inject a thickened epoxy mix.

The only way to know which problem you have that I know of is to drill test
holes into the core and see what comes up. First see if you can feel a space
under the skin and then see if the plywood feels solid. If there is any
doubt about the core drill into it - but NOT through the core - and examine
the sawdust that comes up. You wil probably need to use a larger bit (i.e.,
1/4") to get sufficient material to examine. You want it to be dry good
wood. Start in the area that is most suspect and if the core is wet or punky
work your way out from there to determine whether the problem is localized
or throughout the sole. One suspect area would be under the table stand
where screws into the core might have allowed water to enter. Also check any
other place where there might be significant cracks or holes. If the core is
wet or punky you need to replace the wood core in that area. If the punky
area is large you would be best to remove the core entire for the entire
sole.

You can use a router or rotary tool or circular saw to cut the skin well
outside the problem area. Keep the piece that you removed for the repair.
With the section removed you will be able to examine the core more carefully
and then decide if you need to remove more of the skin. If a small area is
bad remove it back to solid wood. An oscillating tool with a cutting blade
would probably work well for that purpose.

If you need to remove the entire sole I would use a circular saw to cut
through the skin about 3' in from the edge. Whether you will need to dig out
the plywood remaining under the lip will depend on its condition. An
oscillating tool with cutting blade would probably work well. As I mentioned
yesterday, you will want to keep an edge that can be ground down so layers
of cloth and epoxy can be applied to cover the join while remaining below
the surface of the rest of the sole.

If you are lucky you will find that the problem is just delamination. To fix
delamination drill through the skin ONLY - not through the core - with a
1/4" bit in a pattern of holes spaced about 3 to 4 inches apart. If you
drill through the core you will just inject the epoxy into the foam where it
serves no purpose. Using a large syringe, cut the tip so the tip will fit
snug in the holes. The best size of syring I fond were the ones what are
about 1" diameter and about 5" long with a plastic tip. I got mine at an
automotive store. They are reusable if cleaned before the epoxy sets. 

You then inject epoxy thickened with Colloidal Silica to the consistency of
ketchup into the hole until you see it coming up through the neighbouring
holes. If the mix is too thick it will not flow and if it is too thin it
mill not fill the gap properly. Work your way around the entire area
checking back regularly to add epoxy mix to any holes where it appears the
mix is receding. You might try placing some heavy weights such as cement
blocks on the sole to hold it down while the epoxy cures. Put plastic or
waxed paper under the blocks so that you don't glue them to the sole. As
soon as the epoxy sets but before it fully cures, remove the blocks and use
a sharp chisel to remove any epoxy from the surface. This is much easier
than sanding off hardened epoxy as it is very difficult to remove the epoxy
bumps without sanding down the much softer gel coat around them
necessitating a considerable amount of hand fairing. The proper time to do
this is when the epoxy is no longer sticky but can still be marked with your
fingernail. 

Once the epoxy cures you should have a very solid sole. You will need to
sand it smooth and add a new non-skid surface.

I used this method to reattach the side decks on my boat and it seems to
have worked very well and was just a fraction of the work that core
replacement would have entailed. Don't be tempted to inject epoxy into punky
wood. It won't work and will make eventual removal more difficult.

 I decided to cover the entire area with a layer of cloth and epoxy, faired
it all and then added the non-skid. If you go the route of injection, a
layer of cloth is optional but if you remove the entire core a few layers of
cloth over the entire area will strengthen the join and hide the scar.
Again, you will need to fair the surface, and apply non-skid. I didn't have
to remove my sole but because I had to apply non-skid to the deck of my boat
I also applied it to the sole for a consistent appearance. I have attached a
picture of the sole with the non-skid applied. I used KiwiGrip.

Good luck,

Graham Stewart
Agile. R22, 1976
Kingston Ontario Canada

-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of The Rhodes 22 Email
List
Sent: October 15, 2015 2:46 PM
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] spongy cockpit sole

I am thinking about opening up the cockpit sole and replacing the core (what
is it - wood, foam?). I will need to open up most if not all of the raised
portion in the cockpit. Any tips like how to cut the skin to get to the
core? Thanks! Steve

-----
Fair winds and following seas .....  Steve Raye
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