From jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com Sun Dec 1 12:21:30 2019 From: jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com (Jesse Shumaker) Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2019 10:21:30 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck In-Reply-To: <09dc4a01-8594-6f83-aa0c-dfdf1272b5f9@atlanticbb.net> References: <1575060602725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <09dc4a01-8594-6f83-aa0c-dfdf1272b5f9@atlanticbb.net> Message-ID: <1575220890684-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Graham, Peter, and Mary Lou, thanks for your replies. Mary Lou, you have an encyclopedic knowledge of R22 history. Thanks for continuing to post even after selling your R22. I read quite a bit about different pocket cruisers before deciding what type of boat I wanted and your chapter in the Sailing Small book helped steer me towards a Rhodes 22. Since I'm installing the solar vent fan in the anchor locker hole near the bow, I'll just see how sleeping in the v-birth goes with that in place. The former owner wired in a fan to the electrical connection for the light above the porta potty and I can point that towards the v-birth to help with airflow. The former owner also left onboard another 12v fan that I could plug in and use in the main part of the cabin if needed. I would be reluctant to cut another hole in the deck since each additional hole comes with it's own risk of water problems and adding a hatch would involve additional expense. It appears that use of solar vent fan in the existing 3" hole near the bow is a common approach. As I was installing mine, it occurred to me that this could affect anchoring since the bow cleat is aft of the solar vent. For those with a solar vent, I was wondering what approach you take for running the rode. Here are some approaches that came to mind initially: - Run the rode around the outside of the bow pulpit to avoid any pressure against the solar vent. With this approach, perhaps the rode could be run through the u-bolt on the hull on the bow to ensure the anchor rode extends directly in front of the boat -Run alongside and against the the solar vent. With this approach, perhaps it would be possible to put some sort of protection around the solar vent when anchoring. I was concerned that pressure from the rode against the solar vent could cause damage to the plastic solar vent or chafe against the sealant at the base of the solar vent. - Use some sort of bridal system that would go around both sides the solar vent and perhaps outside the bow pulpit. Any advice on this would be appreciated. I've done very little anchoring so I'm especially a novice in this area. -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ From peter at sunnybeeches.com Sun Dec 1 17:47:38 2019 From: peter at sunnybeeches.com (Peter Nyberg) Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2019 17:47:38 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck In-Reply-To: <1575220890684-0.post@n5.nabble.com> References: <1575060602725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <09dc4a01-8594-6f83-aa0c-dfdf1272b5f9@atlanticbb.net> <1575220890684-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Message-ID: <9ED00BDA-12ED-46B3-B43A-C6D8E920EFD0@sunnybeeches.com> Jesse, Probably the simplest solution for your anchor rode issue would be to install chocks on the toe rail in positions that would lead the rode away from the vent. My guess is that the toe rail is solid fiberglass, so you should be able to get a solid attachment. ?Peter > On Dec 1, 2019, at 12:21 PM, Jesse Shumaker wrote: > > Graham, Peter, and Mary Lou, thanks for your replies. Mary Lou, you have an > encyclopedic knowledge of R22 history. Thanks for continuing to post even > after selling your R22. I read quite a bit about different pocket cruisers > before deciding what type of boat I wanted and your chapter in the Sailing > Small book helped steer me towards a Rhodes 22. > > Since I'm installing the solar vent fan in the anchor locker hole near the > bow, I'll just see how sleeping in the v-birth goes with that in place. The > former owner wired in a fan to the electrical connection for the light above > the porta potty and I can point that towards the v-birth to help with > airflow. The former owner also left onboard another 12v fan that I could > plug in and use in the main part of the cabin if needed. I would be > reluctant to cut another hole in the deck since each additional hole comes > with it's own risk of water problems and adding a hatch would involve > additional expense. > > It appears that use of solar vent fan in the existing 3" hole near the bow > is a common approach. As I was installing mine, it occurred to me that this > could affect anchoring since the bow cleat is aft of the solar vent. For > those with a solar vent, I was wondering what approach you take for running > the rode. Here are some approaches that came to mind initially: > > - Run the rode around the outside of the bow pulpit to avoid any pressure > against the solar vent. With this approach, perhaps the rode could be run > through the u-bolt on the hull on the bow to ensure the anchor rode extends > directly in front of the boat > > -Run alongside and against the the solar vent. With this approach, perhaps > it would be possible to put some sort of protection around the solar vent > when anchoring. I was concerned that pressure from the rode against the > solar vent could cause damage to the plastic solar vent or chafe against the > sealant at the base of the solar vent. > > - Use some sort of bridal system that would go around both sides the solar > vent and perhaps outside the bow pulpit. > > Any advice on this would be appreciated. I've done very little anchoring so > I'm especially a novice in this area. > > > > -- > Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ From Colealexander at hotmail.com Sun Dec 1 18:49:24 2019 From: Colealexander at hotmail.com (S/V Lark) Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2019 16:49:24 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Long term cruising stowage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1575244164482-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Can you add detail about your cargo bars under the cockpit seat? I?ve been wanting to engineer something for this. I considered rope, which would put the cockpit casting under stress compared to your system. I didn?t want to add holes until I was sure. Have you ever weighed your gear? I assume you need your cockpit plug under ordinary conditions? Alex ----- Alex Cole S/V Lark -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ From gstewart8 at cogeco.ca Sun Dec 1 19:31:31 2019 From: gstewart8 at cogeco.ca (Graham Stewart) Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2019 19:31:31 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck In-Reply-To: <9ED00BDA-12ED-46B3-B43A-C6D8E920EFD0@sunnybeeches.com> References: <1575060602725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <09dc4a01-8594-6f83-aa0c-dfdf1272b5f9@atlanticbb.net> <1575220890684-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <9ED00BDA-12ED-46B3-B43A-C6D8E920EFD0@sunnybeeches.com> Message-ID: <003201d5a8a7$da7e9030$8f7bb090$@ca> The rub rails are not solid - as you can see in the attached photo - but the glass is probably thick enough to hold screws if they are installed properly. I my case I installed the chocks inboard of the rub rails where they were originally installed and could be bolted through the deck with fender washers and nuts on the inside. I don't trust screws for anything that takes a significant strain. However, I raised them up 1" on blocks of composite lumber so that the lines cleared the rub rails to avoid chafe and blemishes. The second photo shows where they were placed originally. Graham Graham Stewart Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 Kingston Ontario -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Peter Nyberg Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2019 5:48 PM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck Jesse, Probably the simplest solution for your anchor rode issue would be to install chocks on the toe rail in positions that would lead the rode away from the vent. My guess is that the toe rail is solid fiberglass, so you should be able to get a solid attachment. ?Peter > On Dec 1, 2019, at 12:21 PM, Jesse Shumaker wrote: > > Graham, Peter, and Mary Lou, thanks for your replies. Mary Lou, you have an > encyclopedic knowledge of R22 history. Thanks for continuing to post even > after selling your R22. I read quite a bit about different pocket cruisers > before deciding what type of boat I wanted and your chapter in the Sailing > Small book helped steer me towards a Rhodes 22. > > Since I'm installing the solar vent fan in the anchor locker hole near the > bow, I'll just see how sleeping in the v-birth goes with that in place. The > former owner wired in a fan to the electrical connection for the light above > the porta potty and I can point that towards the v-birth to help with > airflow. The former owner also left onboard another 12v fan that I could > plug in and use in the main part of the cabin if needed. I would be > reluctant to cut another hole in the deck since each additional hole comes > with it's own risk of water problems and adding a hatch would involve > additional expense. > > It appears that use of solar vent fan in the existing 3" hole near the bow > is a common approach. As I was installing mine, it occurred to me that this > could affect anchoring since the bow cleat is aft of the solar vent. For > those with a solar vent, I was wondering what approach you take for running > the rode. Here are some approaches that came to mind initially: > > - Run the rode around the outside of the bow pulpit to avoid any pressure > against the solar vent. With this approach, perhaps the rode could be run > through the u-bolt on the hull on the bow to ensure the anchor rode extends > directly in front of the boat > > -Run alongside and against the the solar vent. With this approach, perhaps > it would be possible to put some sort of protection around the solar vent > when anchoring. I was concerned that pressure from the rode against the > solar vent could cause damage to the plastic solar vent or chafe against the > sealant at the base of the solar vent. > > - Use some sort of bridal system that would go around both sides the solar > vent and perhaps outside the bow pulpit. > > Any advice on this would be appreciated. I've done very little anchoring so > I'm especially a novice in this area. > > > > -- > Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Deck reconstruction Aug 2011 (6).jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 179157 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: deck hardware (2).jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 176040 bytes Desc: not available URL: From peter at sunnybeeches.com Sun Dec 1 20:37:53 2019 From: peter at sunnybeeches.com (Peter Nyberg) Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2019 20:37:53 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck In-Reply-To: <003201d5a8a7$da7e9030$8f7bb090$@ca> References: <1575060602725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <09dc4a01-8594-6f83-aa0c-dfdf1272b5f9@atlanticbb.net> <1575220890684-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <9ED00BDA-12ED-46B3-B43A-C6D8E920EFD0@sunnybeeches.com> <003201d5a8a7$da7e9030$8f7bb090$@ca> Message-ID: I stand corrected. I?d follow Graham?s advice. I?m not sure what material he?s referring to when he mentions ?composite lumber?, but I think Starboard would be a good choice for raising the chocks off the deck. ?Peter > On Dec 1, 2019, at 7:31 PM, Graham Stewart wrote: > > The rub rails are not solid - as you can see in the attached photo - but the glass is probably thick enough to hold screws if they are installed properly. I my case I installed the chocks inboard of the rub rails where they were originally installed and could be bolted through the deck with fender washers and nuts on the inside. I don't trust screws for anything that takes a significant strain. However, I raised them up 1" on blocks of composite lumber so that the lines cleared the rub rails to avoid chafe and blemishes. > > The second photo shows where they were placed originally. > > Graham > > Graham Stewart > Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 > Kingston Ontario > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Peter Nyberg > Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2019 5:48 PM > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck > > Jesse, > > Probably the simplest solution for your anchor rode issue would be to install chocks on the toe rail in positions that would lead the rode away from the vent. My guess is that the toe rail is solid fiberglass, so you should be able to get a solid attachment. > > ?Peter From chrisgeankoplis at gmail.com Sun Dec 1 22:04:55 2019 From: chrisgeankoplis at gmail.com (Chris Geankoplis) Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2019 21:04:55 -0600 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Long term cruising stowage In-Reply-To: <1575244164482-0.post@n5.nabble.com> References: <1575244164482-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Message-ID: Hey Alex, I should have weighed it and considered it but each time when both parts came together, I didn't have a scale. I'll try to do it next time I am preping the boat next spring. One cargo bar were made from a clothes bar from an RV (oval in profile) 1/2 X 1 ", on the port side. Couldn't get anymore so I used square alum stock 3/4 or i" for the stb. side. I then cut the aft sockets to fit the profile of each. On the forward end I cut a "U" channel of appropriate dimensions. The sockets themselves were made of 1/2" HDPE. I also made cap plugs for each bar for both to avoid any sharp or scratchy ends. I use a Dremel to carve each cap. The sockets were secured with 4 SS screws and finishing washers for each. I've had them on board for the last 15 years with no issues. Be sure you settle on what dimensions you will use on the under seat storage containers including your fuel tank so you know how far to center line to place the bars. My port bar is a bit closer to center line than the stb. one based on what I stow under each seat. And yes, with all that stuff I do use a plug with an extra wrap of rescue tape to keep the water on the proper side of the hull. Good luck with the project. Chris G. ENOSIS On Sun, Dec 1, 2019 at 5:34 PM S/V Lark wrote: > Can you add detail about your cargo bars under the cockpit seat? I?ve > been > wanting to engineer something for this. I considered rope, which would > put > the cockpit casting under stress compared to your system. I didn?t want > to add holes until I was sure. > > Have you ever weighed your gear? I assume you need your cockpit plug under > ordinary conditions? > > Alex > > > > ----- > Alex Cole > S/V Lark > -- > Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ > From gstewart8 at cogeco.ca Sun Dec 1 22:59:19 2019 From: gstewart8 at cogeco.ca (Graham Stewart) Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2019 22:59:19 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck In-Reply-To: References: <1575060602725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <09dc4a01-8594-6f83-aa0c-dfdf1272b5f9@atlanticbb.net> <1575220890684-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <9ED00BDA-12ED-46B3-B43A-C6D8E920EFD0@sunnybeeches.com> <003201d5a8a7$da7e9030$8f7bb090$@ca> Message-ID: <003601d5a8c4$e23be490$a6b3adb0$@ca> Peter: When I refer to "composite lumber" I am just talking about composite deck boards. In my case I used some scrap pieces in a variety of places where I wanted a wood-like trim without any upkeep. This material has little strength and can't hold screws or be glued so it is relegated to situations where it can be bolted in place and has no structural purpose - like cockpit trim. I used it in a variety of places such as for blocks under the chocks. Starboard is a better product for sure in terms of strength but where strength isn't important then composite boards are much less expensive, come in a variety of colors and has a wood grain appearance on one side. It is easy to work with, is oblivious to UV and needs no maintenance. I used the composite to replace the cabin sliding hatch runners (see photo) and so far it has held up well. I don't know why it isn't used more on boats. Maybe others on the list can comment. Graham Stewart Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 Kingston Ontario -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Peter Nyberg Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2019 8:38 PM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck I stand corrected. I?d follow Graham?s advice. I?m not sure what material he?s referring to when he mentions ?composite lumber?, but I think Starboard would be a good choice for raising the chocks off the deck. ?Peter > On Dec 1, 2019, at 7:31 PM, Graham Stewart wrote: > > The rub rails are not solid - as you can see in the attached photo - but the glass is probably thick enough to hold screws if they are installed properly. I my case I installed the chocks inboard of the rub rails where they were originally installed and could be bolted through the deck with fender washers and nuts on the inside. I don't trust screws for anything that takes a significant strain. However, I raised them up 1" on blocks of composite lumber so that the lines cleared the rub rails to avoid chafe and blemishes. > > The second photo shows where they were placed originally. > > Graham > > Graham Stewart > Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 > Kingston Ontario > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Peter Nyberg > Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2019 5:48 PM > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck > > Jesse, > > Probably the simplest solution for your anchor rode issue would be to install chocks on the toe rail in positions that would lead the rode away from the vent. My guess is that the toe rail is solid fiberglass, so you should be able to get a solid attachment. > > ?Peter -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Sliding hatch with composite rails December 2013 (2).jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 326626 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jfn302 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 2 00:54:57 2019 From: jfn302 at yahoo.com (James Nichols) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 05:54:57 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck In-Reply-To: <003601d5a8c4$e23be490$a6b3adb0$@ca> References: <1575060602725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <09dc4a01-8594-6f83-aa0c-dfdf1272b5f9@atlanticbb.net> <1575220890684-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <9ED00BDA-12ED-46B3-B43A-C6D8E920EFD0@sunnybeeches.com> <003201d5a8a7$da7e9030$8f7bb090$@ca> <003601d5a8c4$e23be490$a6b3adb0$@ca> Message-ID: <981891048.4904675.1575266097828@mail.yahoo.com> Graham,? We are starting to see it more and more in products specially made for boats,? so of course they are expensive products rather than the fairly inexpensive composite decking.? Things like the faux teak cost nearly as much as three real thing.? Using composite decking instead would be a much better solution.? I have seen composite decking used for interior flooring a bit.?? James From jfn302 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 2 01:10:00 2019 From: jfn302 at yahoo.com (James Nichols) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 06:10:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Long term cruising stowage In-Reply-To: References: <1575244164482-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Message-ID: <687185153.1412567.1575267000653@mail.yahoo.com> I would recommend using a one way scupper instead of a plug.? Pretty cheap and you don't have to fumble for the plug if you take on water.? Search Flow Max scupper on Amazon or your favorite marine retailer,? $15.00 each,? and Stan might not void your unsinkable warranty.? James From roger_pihlaja at msn.com Mon Dec 2 07:09:30 2019 From: roger_pihlaja at msn.com (ROGER PIHLAJA) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 12:09:30 +0000 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck In-Reply-To: <003601d5a8c4$e23be490$a6b3adb0$@ca> References: <003601d5a8c4$e23be490$a6b3adb0$@ca> Message-ID: Hi All, S/V Dynamic Equilibrium has had black UV stabilized ultra high molecular weight polyethylene (ie Starboard although that brand wasn?t available back then) slides on the cabin top and the companionway hatch since 1992. I also use 2? wide Teflon tape under the companionway hatch slide as a wear surface so the hatch or cabin roof are not worn down. I had to replace the Teflon tape once in 2012, so I?m getting about 20 years of life on the wear surface. The UHMWPE slides still look new after 27+ seasons, are easy to clean, and completely maintenance free. I like the gloss black look; but, some people prefer the varnished wood look. Pound per pound UHMWPE is one of the most expensive polymers, which might explain why it isn?t used more by boat makers. The material is used a lot for whitewater kayak hulls, which are subject to tremendous abuse! The central hull on my Walker Bay RIB is made from UHMWPE. It came with a 10 year warranty, which is the longest warranty period in the inflatable industry. The RIB is now 7 years old. Except for a few minor scratches up on the bow, it still looks new Roger Pihlaja S/V Dynamic Equilibrium Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 1, 2019, at 10:59 PM, Graham Stewart wrote: > > ?Peter: > When I refer to "composite lumber" I am just talking about composite deck boards. In my case I used some scrap pieces in a variety of places where I wanted a wood-like trim without any upkeep. This material has little strength and can't hold screws or be glued so it is relegated to situations where it can be bolted in place and has no structural purpose - like cockpit trim. I used it in a variety of places such as for blocks under the chocks. > > Starboard is a better product for sure in terms of strength but where strength isn't important then composite boards are much less expensive, come in a variety of colors and has a wood grain appearance on one side. It is easy to work with, is oblivious to UV and needs no maintenance. > > I used the composite to replace the cabin sliding hatch runners (see photo) and so far it has held up well. > > I don't know why it isn't used more on boats. Maybe others on the list can comment. > > > Graham Stewart > Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 > Kingston Ontario > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Peter Nyberg > Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2019 8:38 PM > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck > > I stand corrected. I?d follow Graham?s advice. I?m not sure what material he?s referring to when he mentions ?composite lumber?, but I think Starboard would be a good choice for raising the chocks off the deck. > > ?Peter > >> On Dec 1, 2019, at 7:31 PM, Graham Stewart wrote: >> >> The rub rails are not solid - as you can see in the attached photo - but the glass is probably thick enough to hold screws if they are installed properly. I my case I installed the chocks inboard of the rub rails where they were originally installed and could be bolted through the deck with fender washers and nuts on the inside. I don't trust screws for anything that takes a significant strain. However, I raised them up 1" on blocks of composite lumber so that the lines cleared the rub rails to avoid chafe and blemishes. >> >> The second photo shows where they were placed originally. >> >> Graham >> >> Graham Stewart >> Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 >> Kingston Ontario >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Peter Nyberg >> Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2019 5:48 PM >> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck >> >> Jesse, >> >> Probably the simplest solution for your anchor rode issue would be to install chocks on the toe rail in positions that would lead the rode away from the vent. My guess is that the toe rail is solid fiberglass, so you should be able to get a solid attachment. >> >> ?Peter > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: Sliding hatch with composite rails December 2013 (2).jpg > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 326626 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: From jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com Mon Dec 2 09:58:26 2019 From: jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com (Jesse Shumaker) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 07:58:26 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck In-Reply-To: <003601d5a8c4$e23be490$a6b3adb0$@ca> References: <1575060602725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <09dc4a01-8594-6f83-aa0c-dfdf1272b5f9@atlanticbb.net> <1575220890684-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <9ED00BDA-12ED-46B3-B43A-C6D8E920EFD0@sunnybeeches.com> <003201d5a8a7$da7e9030$8f7bb090$@ca> <003601d5a8c4$e23be490$a6b3adb0$@ca> Message-ID: <1575298706725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Thanks for the replies and tips. I will proceed with adding chocks as suggested since that should address my concerns. I'll post a photo of the finished results on a related post (at the link below) about adding the solar vent. I've got one minor tweak to make and the solar vent installation will be done. http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/gasket-for-mounting-solar-vent-td56219.html Graham, your photos illustrate some major projects. Did you replace the foredeck yourself? If so, did you end up ordering a replacement foredeck from GB for the installation? -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ From jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com Mon Dec 2 10:02:57 2019 From: jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com (Jesse Shumaker) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 08:02:57 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Long term cruising stowage In-Reply-To: <687185153.1412567.1575267000653@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1575244164482-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <687185153.1412567.1575267000653@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1575298977846-0.post@n5.nabble.com> James, thanks for the tip on the one way scupper. From the reviews on these products at first glance, it sounds like this solution has worked well for others with this type of issue. I plan to give that a try and see how it goes. -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ From tavares0947 at gmail.com Mon Dec 2 10:14:06 2019 From: tavares0947 at gmail.com (Todd Tavares) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 10:14:06 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck In-Reply-To: <1575298706725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> References: <1575060602725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <09dc4a01-8594-6f83-aa0c-dfdf1272b5f9@atlanticbb.net> <1575220890684-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <9ED00BDA-12ED-46B3-B43A-C6D8E920EFD0@sunnybeeches.com> <003201d5a8a7$da7e9030$8f7bb090$@ca> <003601d5a8c4$e23be490$a6b3adb0$@ca> <1575298706725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Message-ID: Speaking of composites, has anyone had an opportunity to work with Coosa boards? https://www.boatoutfitters.com/coosa-composites-board?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIx8aVhKCX5gIVy8DACh0irAglEAAYASACEgLiDvD_BwE Maybe our resident engineer could get a sales sample and give his opinion? Hmmmm? Todd T. tavares0947 at gmail.com On Mon, Dec 2, 2019, 9:43 AM Jesse Shumaker wrote: > Thanks for the replies and tips. I will proceed with adding chocks as > suggested since that should address my concerns. I'll post a photo of the > finished results on a related post (at the link below) about adding the > solar vent. I've got one minor tweak to make and the solar vent > installation will be done. > > > http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/gasket-for-mounting-solar-vent-td56219.html > > Graham, your photos illustrate some major projects. Did you replace the > foredeck yourself? If so, did you end up ordering a replacement foredeck > from GB for the installation? > > > > -- > Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ > From peter at sunnybeeches.com Mon Dec 2 10:20:15 2019 From: peter at sunnybeeches.com (Peter Nyberg) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 10:20:15 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck In-Reply-To: References: <1575060602725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <09dc4a01-8594-6f83-aa0c-dfdf1272b5f9@atlanticbb.net> <1575220890684-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <9ED00BDA-12ED-46B3-B43A-C6D8E920EFD0@sunnybeeches.com> <003201d5a8a7$da7e9030$8f7bb090$@ca> <003601d5a8c4$e23be490$a6b3adb0$@ca> <1575298706725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Message-ID: The BoatworksToday YouTube channel has a couple of recent videos about working with Coosa. Here?s one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5-_fOPzlHM Peter Nyberg Coventry, CT s/v Silverheels (1988/2016) > On Dec 2, 2019, at 10:14 AM, Todd Tavares wrote: > > Speaking of composites, has anyone had an opportunity to work with Coosa > boards? > > https://www.boatoutfitters.com/coosa-composites-board?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIx8aVhKCX5gIVy8DACh0irAglEAAYASACEgLiDvD_BwE > > Maybe our resident engineer could get a sales sample and give his opinion? > Hmmmm? > > Todd T. > > tavares0947 at gmail.com > From chrisgeankoplis at gmail.com Mon Dec 2 11:17:36 2019 From: chrisgeankoplis at gmail.com (Chris Geankoplis) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 10:17:36 -0600 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Long term cruising stowage In-Reply-To: <687185153.1412567.1575267000653@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1575244164482-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <687185153.1412567.1575267000653@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hey James, Thanks for that piece of information, it sounds like the ticket. I'll check it out. A couple of times when the boat was docked, I didn't remove the plug and a thunderstorm added an inch of water that would have drained out if I hadn't left the plug in. Chris Geankoplis ENOSIS On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 12:10 AM James Nichols via Rhodes22-list < rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote: > I would recommend using a one way scupper instead of a plug. Pretty cheap > and you don't have to fumble for the plug if you take on water. > Search Flow Max scupper on Amazon or your favorite marine retailer, > $15.00 each, and Stan might not void your unsinkable warranty. > James > From gstewart8 at cogeco.ca Tue Dec 3 09:30:09 2019 From: gstewart8 at cogeco.ca (Graham Stewart) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2019 09:30:09 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck In-Reply-To: <1575298706725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> References: <1575060602725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <09dc4a01-8594-6f83-aa0c-dfdf1272b5f9@atlanticbb.net> <1575220890684-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <9ED00BDA-12ED-46B3-B43A-C6D8E920EFD0@sunnybeeches.com> <003201d5a8a7$da7e9030$8f7bb090$@ca> <003601d5a8c4$e23be490$a6b3adb0$@ca> <1575298706725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Message-ID: <00b701d5a9e6$2dade140$8909a3c0$@ca> Jesse: Yes, I did some major restoration work which showed in part in the photo of the foredeck being removed. I literally cut the deck in front of the cabin roof and removed it. I then separated the liner, removed the core material, replaced the core with multiple layers of epoxy-coated marine plywood, and then reinstalled the deck. It might sound like a simple 4-step process but it took me all summer just to do that. Refinishing the boat was another big project. Had I know then what I know now I would have realized that all that was unnecessary. I thought that the core was in very poor condition as I knew there had been a water leak into the core, the deck was very soft when I stood on I, and I had a nest of flying ants above the liner that I assumed was an indication of severe core damage. At the time was encouraged to be so adventurous because I thought that there was a very good chance that I would end up taking the boat to the dump as being unsalvageable. I was just curious to see what was happening between the deck skin and liner. As it turned out, there was very little damage to the core. The wet spot was relatively small with no sign of rot and there was no trace of damage from the flying ants. However, the core was made of regular indoor plywood that had dried out and delaminated from the deck and liner. It had only been attached with very little strands of sealant that in most areas hadn't even touched the skins. Hence it came apart and was removed mostly with my bare hands. The individual layers of the plywood had also separated. As a result the deck had lost virtually all of its rigidity. It would have been much, much, much less trouble and probably just as effective to have dried out the wet spot and then injected thickened epoxy into the entire core and between the core and the deck skin, but without being able to see what was happening I had no idea that epoxy injection would be effective. In fact, for the side decks I used this method of epoxy injection and got very good results. There are a few tricks to getting the epoxy into the right places and being able to see the core from the cut edge was essential to that process. I posted this work and my conclusions to the list so that all those contemplating the removal of their deck might avoid a lot of work. As it turned out there were not a lot of people contemplating doing that. However, It I think it might have been useful to some to be able to see what I discovered inside the deck. Getting the deck pack on and aligned turned out to be a very difficult process - for a complete novice like me. I had made a frame to hold the foredeck in its original shape while I replaced the core but, while it helped, it didn't work very well and the new deck did not align well with the rest of the boat. (The deck is much less symmetrical than I had expected it to be.) So fitting it back on the boat was very time-consuming and required a LOT of fairing and reinforcement. In the end, however, the surgery is not visible either on the inside or outside and I have a foredeck that could puncture a concrete wall. To finish the deck I had to grind off all of the non-skid gel coat on the foredeck and side decks, apply several layers of glass and endless fairing to the entire area, paint the entire deck and cockpit, and apply a new nonskid. All in all a ridiculous amount of work. It took about four years of summer work just to this repair - although I was doing a plethora of other repairs as well. The total restoration took seven years. I note that somewhere along the line Stan stopped using plywood as the core material for the R22 and as a result the problems I had would be avoided. My advice to anyone purchasing an older R22 would be to determine what the core material is before the purchase. Graham Stewart Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 Kingston Ontario -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Jesse Shumaker Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 9:58 AM To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck Thanks for the replies and tips. I will proceed with adding chocks as suggested since that should address my concerns. I'll post a photo of the finished results on a related post (at the link below) about adding the solar vent. I've got one minor tweak to make and the solar vent installation will be done. http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/gasket-for-mounting-solar-vent-td5621 9.html Graham, your photos illustrate some major projects. Did you replace the foredeck yourself? If so, did you end up ordering a replacement foredeck from GB for the installation? -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ From jfn302 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 3 10:44:30 2019 From: jfn302 at yahoo.com (James Nichols) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2019 15:44:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck In-Reply-To: <00b701d5a9e6$2dade140$8909a3c0$@ca> References: <1575060602725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <09dc4a01-8594-6f83-aa0c-dfdf1272b5f9@atlanticbb.net> <1575220890684-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <9ED00BDA-12ED-46B3-B43A-C6D8E920EFD0@sunnybeeches.com> <003201d5a8a7$da7e9030$8f7bb090$@ca> <003601d5a8c4$e23be490$a6b3adb0$@ca> <1575298706725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <00b701d5a9e6$2dade140$8909a3c0$@ca> Message-ID: <185718492.1623572.1575387870653@mail.yahoo.com> Graham,? I started a similar project on mine.? I've come close to deciding that it was best to abandon it a few times because of my lack of time to commit to the project,? but I'm sticking with it.? I have the interior skin removed from the fore deck.? And the core material as well.? It was much the same as yours.? Barely attached,? but mine had much more water damage to the core as the forward hatch was badly deteriorated and allowed water in around the edges.? I had considered removing the deck,? turning it over and working on it upside down,? but then I saw some videos of reinstalling a deck and the amount of work it took to get the hull and deck back into the same alignment as before and decided I didn't have the equipment for that.? So,? I'm working on mine still together. Considering turning the entire boat upside down right now.?I'm going back with 1/4 ? 1/2" strips of oak,? building it back from the inside.? Pretty certain I'm going to leave the oak exposed and give it a nice stained finish.? In the end,? I expect mine with pierce that same concrete wall right next to yours.? James On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 8:30 AM, Graham Stewart wrote: Jesse: Yes, I did some major restoration work which showed in part in the photo of the foredeck being removed. I literally cut the deck in front of the cabin roof and removed it. I then separated the liner, removed the core material, replaced the core with multiple layers of epoxy-coated marine plywood, and then reinstalled the deck. It might sound like a simple 4-step process but it took me all summer just to do that. Refinishing the boat was another big project. Had I know then what I know now I would have realized that all that was unnecessary. I thought that the core was in very poor condition as I knew there had been a water leak into the core, the deck was very soft when I stood on I, and I had a nest of flying ants above the liner that I assumed was an indication of severe core damage. At the time was encouraged to be so adventurous because I thought that there was a very good chance that I would end up taking the boat to the dump as being unsalvageable. I was just curious to see what was happening between the deck skin and liner. As it turned out, there was very little damage to the core. The wet spot was relatively small with no sign of rot and there was no trace of damage from the flying ants. However, the core was made of regular indoor plywood that had dried out and delaminated from the deck and liner. It had only been attached with very little strands of sealant that in most areas hadn't even touched the skins. Hence it came apart and was removed mostly with my bare hands. The individual layers of the plywood had also separated. As a result the deck had lost virtually all of its rigidity. It would have been much, much, much less trouble and probably just as effective to have dried out the wet spot and then injected thickened epoxy into the entire core and between the core and the deck skin, but without being able to see what was happening I had no idea that epoxy injection would be effective. In fact, for the side decks I used this method of epoxy injection and got very good results. There are a few tricks to getting the epoxy into the right places and being able to see the core from the cut edge was essential to that process. I posted this work and my conclusions to the list so that all those contemplating the removal of their deck might avoid a lot of work. As it turned out there were not? a lot of people contemplating doing that. However, It I think it might have been useful to some to be able to see what I discovered inside the deck. Getting the deck pack on and aligned turned out to be a very difficult process - for a complete novice like me. I had made a frame to hold the foredeck in its original shape while I replaced the core but, while it helped, it didn't work very well and the new deck did not align well with the rest of the boat. (The deck is much less symmetrical than I had expected it to be.) So fitting it back on the boat was very time-consuming and required a LOT of fairing and reinforcement. In the end, however, the surgery is not visible either on the inside or outside and I have a foredeck that could puncture a concrete wall. To finish the deck I had to grind off all of the non-skid gel coat on the foredeck and side decks, apply several layers of glass and endless fairing to the entire area, paint the entire deck and cockpit, and apply a new nonskid. All in all a ridiculous amount of work. It took about four years of summer work just to this repair - although I was doing a plethora of other repairs as well. The total restoration took seven years. I note that somewhere along the line Stan stopped using plywood as the core material for the R22 and as a result the problems I had would be avoided. My advice to anyone purchasing an older R22 would be to determine what the core material is before the purchase. Graham Stewart Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 Kingston Ontario -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Jesse Shumaker Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 9:58 AM To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck Thanks for the replies and tips.? I will proceed with adding chocks as suggested since that should address my concerns. I'll post a photo of the finished results on a related post (at the link below) about adding the solar vent.? I've got one minor tweak to make and the solar vent installation will be done. http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/gasket-for-mounting-solar-vent-td5621 9.html Graham, your photos illustrate some major projects.? Did you replace the foredeck yourself?? If so, did you end up ordering a replacement foredeck from GB for the installation? -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ From gstewart8 at cogeco.ca Tue Dec 3 11:37:14 2019 From: gstewart8 at cogeco.ca (Graham Stewart) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2019 11:37:14 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck In-Reply-To: <185718492.1623572.1575387870653@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1575060602725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <09dc4a01-8594-6f83-aa0c-dfdf1272b5f9@atlanticbb.net> <1575220890684-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <9ED00BDA-12ED-46B3-B43A-C6D8E920EFD0@sunnybeeches.com> <003201d5a8a7$da7e9030$8f7bb090$@ca> <003601d5a8c4$e23be490$a6b3adb0$@ca> <1575298706725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <00b701d5a9e6$2dade140$8909a3c0$@ca> <185718492.1623572.1575387870653@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00c601d5a9f7$ef036110$cd0a2330$@ca> James: Sounds like a good strategy that will have a number of advantages to my approach. With adequate core material properly bonded to the deck skin there should be no need for the liner. In fact, I found that with my boat the core and liner was not bonded anywhere making the liner of little structural use anyway. The hard part is finding a way to work in such a confined area. I had to do that to join and fair the liner at the seam and that was a pain even though it was where I had the most room. Because I had removed the main bulkhead I was able to place a strip of plywood to bridge the space between the V-birth and a chair in the main cabin and then use that as a bed to lay on. But that would not help you get into the bow. Just getting into the bow area to replace deck hardware nuts and to fiberglass the hull-deck joint was difficult. Turning the boat over would make it easier to work with but would not give you more headroom. Actually I did that for another boat restoration I did so flipping the boat is quite feasible. I built a big crate for the boat that held it steady while I then turned the boat using come along winches and foam blocks to cushion the fall once the boat passed the balance point. I have pictures if you are interested. I wonder if it wouldn't be more feasible to remove (and later replace) the flotation in the bow of the boat? You might then use some plywood for a platform to work from. Even a few inches would make a big difference. I think this would be the approach I would take if I were to lose my mind and do it again. Good luck. Let us know how it works out. Graham Stewart Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 Kingston Ontario -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of James Nichols via Rhodes22-list Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2019 10:45 AM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck Graham, I started a similar project on mine. I've come close to deciding that it was best to abandon it a few times because of my lack of time to commit to the project, but I'm sticking with it. I have the interior skin removed from the fore deck. And the core material as well. It was much the same as yours. Barely attached, but mine had much more water damage to the core as the forward hatch was badly deteriorated and allowed water in around the edges. I had considered removing the deck, turning it over and working on it upside down, but then I saw some videos of reinstalling a deck and the amount of work it took to get the hull and deck back into the same alignment as before and decided I didn't have the equipment for that. So, I'm working on mine still together. Considering turning the entire boat upside down right now. I'm going back with 1/4 ? 1/2" strips of oak, building it back from the inside. Pretty certain I'm going to leave the oak exposed and give it a nice stained finish. In the end, I expect mine with pierce that same concrete wall right next to yours. James On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 8:30 AM, Graham Stewart wrote: Jesse: Yes, I did some major restoration work which showed in part in the photo of the foredeck being removed. I literally cut the deck in front of the cabin roof and removed it. I then separated the liner, removed the core material, replaced the core with multiple layers of epoxy-coated marine plywood, and then reinstalled the deck. It might sound like a simple 4-step process but it took me all summer just to do that. Refinishing the boat was another big project. Had I know then what I know now I would have realized that all that was unnecessary. I thought that the core was in very poor condition as I knew there had been a water leak into the core, the deck was very soft when I stood on I, and I had a nest of flying ants above the liner that I assumed was an indication of severe core damage. At the time was encouraged to be so adventurous because I thought that there was a very good chance that I would end up taking the boat to the dump as being unsalvageable. I was just curious to see what was happening between the deck skin and liner. As it turned out, there was very little damage to the core. The wet spot was relatively small with no sign of rot and there was no trace of damage from the flying ants. However, the core was made of regular indoor plywood that had dried out and delaminated from the deck and liner. It had only been attached with very little strands of sealant that in most areas hadn't even touched the skins. Hence it came apart and was removed mostly with my bare hands. The individual layers of the plywood had also separated. As a result the deck had lost virtually all of its rigidity. It would have been much, much, much less trouble and probably just as effective to have dried out the wet spot and then injected thickened epoxy into the entire core and between the core and the deck skin, but without being able to see what was happening I had no idea that epoxy injection would be effective. In fact, for the side decks I used this method of epoxy injection and got very good results. There are a few tricks to getting the epoxy into the right places and being able to see the core from the cut edge was essential to that process. I posted this work and my conclusions to the list so that all those contemplating the removal of their deck might avoid a lot of work. As it turned out there were not a lot of people contemplating doing that. However, It I think it might have been useful to some to be able to see what I discovered inside the deck. Getting the deck pack on and aligned turned out to be a very difficult process - for a complete novice like me. I had made a frame to hold the foredeck in its original shape while I replaced the core but, while it helped, it didn't work very well and the new deck did not align well with the rest of the boat. (The deck is much less symmetrical than I had expected it to be.) So fitting it back on the boat was very time-consuming and required a LOT of fairing and reinforcement. In the end, however, the surgery is not visible either on the inside or outside and I have a foredeck that could puncture a concrete wall. To finish the deck I had to grind off all of the non-skid gel coat on the foredeck and side decks, apply several layers of glass and endless fairing to the entire area, paint the entire deck and cockpit, and apply a new nonskid. All in all a ridiculous amount of work. It took about four years of summer work just to this repair - although I was doing a plethora of other repairs as well. The total restoration took seven years. I note that somewhere along the line Stan stopped using plywood as the core material for the R22 and as a result the problems I had would be avoided. My advice to anyone purchasing an older R22 would be to determine what the core material is before the purchase. Graham Stewart Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 Kingston Ontario -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Jesse Shumaker Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 9:58 AM To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck Thanks for the replies and tips. I will proceed with adding chocks as suggested since that should address my concerns. I'll post a photo of the finished results on a related post (at the link below) about adding the solar vent. I've got one minor tweak to make and the solar vent installation will be done. http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/gasket-for-mounting-solar-vent-td5621 9.html Graham, your photos illustrate some major projects. Did you replace the foredeck yourself? If so, did you end up ordering a replacement foredeck from GB for the installation? -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ From mweisner at ebsmed.com Tue Dec 3 12:27:36 2019 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (mweisner at ebsmed.com) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2019 12:27:36 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck In-Reply-To: <00c601d5a9f7$ef036110$cd0a2330$@ca> References: <1575060602725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <09dc4a01-8594-6f83-aa0c-dfdf1272b5f9@atlanticbb.net> <1575220890684-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <9ED00BDA-12ED-46B3-B43A-C6D8E920EFD0@sunnybeeches.com> <003201d5a8a7$da7e9030$8f7bb090$@ca> <003601d5a8c4$e23be490$a6b3adb0$@ca> <1575298706725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <00b701d5a9e6$2dade140$8909a3c0$@ca> <185718492.1623572.1575387870653@mail.yahoo.com> <00c601d5a9f7$ef036110$cd0a2330$@ca> Message-ID: <002101d5a9fe$f57f84e0$e07e8ea0$@ebsmed.com> Graham & James, I agree on removing the floatation foam in the bow. At least you would have room to work. After rebuilding my '81 R22 (replacing the cabin sole, interior structural members as well as the cockpit floor due to oil canning and delamination), I swore that I would NEVER do that much work on an old boat again ... until I purchased my '91 Rhodes. The '91 had significant storm damage after being demasted and partially submerged in salt water for some time. She had rolled to port and was held under by the dock lines. Yes, I sold the '81 and started all over again on the new to me '91. She sails beautifully and was worth the restoration effort. The Rhodes 22 is virtually indestructible (with proper restoration) and we are totally bonkers. The moral of the story is to buy a Rhodes 22 in relatively good condition and GO SAILING ... life is too short to repeat such mistakes. Mike s/v Wind Lass ('91) Nissequogue River, NY -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of Graham Stewart Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2019 11:37 AM To: 'James Nichols' ; 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck James: Sounds like a good strategy that will have a number of advantages to my approach. With adequate core material properly bonded to the deck skin there should be no need for the liner. In fact, I found that with my boat the core and liner was not bonded anywhere making the liner of little structural use anyway. The hard part is finding a way to work in such a confined area. I had to do that to join and fair the liner at the seam and that was a pain even though it was where I had the most room. Because I had removed the main bulkhead I was able to place a strip of plywood to bridge the space between the V-birth and a chair in the main cabin and then use that as a bed to lay on. But that would not help you get into the bow. Just getting into the bow area to replace deck hardware nuts and to fiberglass the hull-deck joint was difficult. Turning the boat over would make it easier to work with but would not give you more headroom. Actually I did that for another boat restoration I did so flipping the boat is quite feasible. I built a big crate for the boat that held it steady while I then turned the boat using come along winches and foam blocks to cushion the fall once the boat passed the balance point. I have pictures if you are interested. I wonder if it wouldn't be more feasible to remove (and later replace) the flotation in the bow of the boat? You might then use some plywood for a platform to work from. Even a few inches would make a big difference. I think this would be the approach I would take if I were to lose my mind and do it again. Good luck. Let us know how it works out. Graham Stewart Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 Kingston Ontario From gstewart8 at cogeco.ca Tue Dec 3 13:12:53 2019 From: gstewart8 at cogeco.ca (Graham Stewart) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2019 13:12:53 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck In-Reply-To: <002101d5a9fe$f57f84e0$e07e8ea0$@ebsmed.com> References: <1575060602725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <09dc4a01-8594-6f83-aa0c-dfdf1272b5f9@atlanticbb.net> <1575220890684-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <9ED00BDA-12ED-46B3-B43A-C6D8E920EFD0@sunnybeeches.com> <003201d5a8a7$da7e9030$8f7bb090$@ca> <003601d5a8c4$e23be490$a6b3adb0$@ca> <1575298706725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <00b701d5a9e6$2dade140$8909a3c0$@ca> <185718492.1623572.1575387870653@mail.yahoo.com> <00c601d5a9f7$ef036110$cd0a2330$@ca> <002101d5a9fe$f57f84e0$e07e8ea0$@ebsmed.com> Message-ID: <00d601d5aa05$499fde70$dcdf9b50$@ca> Mike: Your advice is totally rational but, unfortunately, for some of us a rational approach to boat restoration just gets ignored. Hence, we do it - repeatedly. My advice is that you should not undertake a rebuild just because you want a better boat. If that is your motivation you probably will not finish. It takes forever and probably cost far more than simply buying a boat in better condition. There are only two good reasons to undertake a major restoration: 1. you actually enjoy the process regardless of how long, expensive and/or painful it is, or 2, you believe that boats feel pain and are unhappy in their current condition. If both conditions apply, you have no choice. We are more to be pitied than scorned. Graham -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of mweisner at ebsmed.com Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2019 12:28 PM To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck Graham & James, I agree on removing the floatation foam in the bow. At least you would have room to work. After rebuilding my '81 R22 (replacing the cabin sole, interior structural members as well as the cockpit floor due to oil canning and delamination), I swore that I would NEVER do that much work on an old boat again ... until I purchased my '91 Rhodes. The '91 had significant storm damage after being demasted and partially submerged in salt water for some time. She had rolled to port and was held under by the dock lines. Yes, I sold the '81 and started all over again on the new to me '91. She sails beautifully and was worth the restoration effort. The Rhodes 22 is virtually indestructible (with proper restoration) and we are totally bonkers. The moral of the story is to buy a Rhodes 22 in relatively good condition and GO SAILING ... life is too short to repeat such mistakes. Mike s/v Wind Lass ('91) Nissequogue River, NY -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of Graham Stewart Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2019 11:37 AM To: 'James Nichols' ; 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck James: Sounds like a good strategy that will have a number of advantages to my approach. With adequate core material properly bonded to the deck skin there should be no need for the liner. In fact, I found that with my boat the core and liner was not bonded anywhere making the liner of little structural use anyway. The hard part is finding a way to work in such a confined area. I had to do that to join and fair the liner at the seam and that was a pain even though it was where I had the most room. Because I had removed the main bulkhead I was able to place a strip of plywood to bridge the space between the V-birth and a chair in the main cabin and then use that as a bed to lay on. But that would not help you get into the bow. Just getting into the bow area to replace deck hardware nuts and to fiberglass the hull-deck joint was difficult. Turning the boat over would make it easier to work with but would not give you more headroom. Actually I did that for another boat restoration I did so flipping the boat is quite feasible. I built a big crate for the boat that held it steady while I then turned the boat using come along winches and foam blocks to cushion the fall once the boat passed the balance point. I have pictures if you are interested. I wonder if it wouldn't be more feasible to remove (and later replace) the flotation in the bow of the boat? You might then use some plywood for a platform to work from. Even a few inches would make a big difference. I think this would be the approach I would take if I were to lose my mind and do it again. Good luck. Let us know how it works out. Graham Stewart Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 Kingston Ontario From chrisgeankoplis at gmail.com Tue Dec 3 15:31:18 2019 From: chrisgeankoplis at gmail.com (Chris Geankoplis) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2019 14:31:18 -0600 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck In-Reply-To: <00d601d5aa05$499fde70$dcdf9b50$@ca> References: <1575060602725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <09dc4a01-8594-6f83-aa0c-dfdf1272b5f9@atlanticbb.net> <1575220890684-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <9ED00BDA-12ED-46B3-B43A-C6D8E920EFD0@sunnybeeches.com> <003201d5a8a7$da7e9030$8f7bb090$@ca> <003601d5a8c4$e23be490$a6b3adb0$@ca> <1575298706725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <00b701d5a9e6$2dade140$8909a3c0$@ca> <185718492.1623572.1575387870653@mail.yahoo.com> <00c601d5a9f7$ef036110$cd0a2330$@ca> <002101d5a9fe$f57f84e0$e07e8ea0$@ebsmed.com> <00d601d5aa05$499fde70$dcdf9b50$@ca> Message-ID: To all you restorers, I am in awe of all you guys. Amazing. I hadn't realized there were so many....what's the word.......inspired sailors out there. Chris Geankoplis Member: S.P.C.R..................Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Rhodes A.V.RA.................. Anti-Vivisection of Rhodes Association On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 12:12 PM Graham Stewart wrote: > Mike: > > Your advice is totally rational but, unfortunately, for some of us a > rational approach to boat restoration just gets ignored. Hence, we do it - > repeatedly. > > My advice is that you should not undertake a rebuild just because you want > a better boat. If that is your motivation you probably will not finish. It > takes forever and probably cost far more than simply buying a boat in > better condition. > > There are only two good reasons to undertake a major restoration: > 1. you actually enjoy the process regardless of how long, expensive and/or > painful it is, or > 2, you believe that boats feel pain and are unhappy in their current > condition. > > If both conditions apply, you have no choice. We are more to be pitied > than scorned. > > Graham > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf > Of mweisner at ebsmed.com > Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2019 12:28 PM > To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck > > Graham & James, > > I agree on removing the floatation foam in the bow. At least you would > have room to work. > > After rebuilding my '81 R22 (replacing the cabin sole, interior structural > members as well as the cockpit floor due to oil canning and delamination), > I swore that I would NEVER do that much work on an old boat again ... until > I purchased my '91 Rhodes. The '91 had significant storm damage after > being demasted and partially submerged in salt water for some time. She > had rolled to port and was held under by the dock lines. Yes, I sold the > '81 and started all over again on the new to me '91. She sails beautifully > and was worth the restoration effort. > > The Rhodes 22 is virtually indestructible (with proper restoration) and we > are totally bonkers. The moral of the story is to buy a Rhodes 22 in > relatively good condition and GO SAILING ... life is too short to repeat > such mistakes. > > Mike > s/v Wind Lass ('91) > Nissequogue River, NY > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of > Graham Stewart > Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2019 11:37 AM > To: 'James Nichols' ; 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' < > rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck > > James: > > Sounds like a good strategy that will have a number of advantages to my > approach. With adequate core material properly bonded to the deck skin > there should be no need for the liner. In fact, I found that with my boat > the core and liner was not bonded anywhere making the liner of little > structural use anyway. > > The hard part is finding a way to work in such a confined area. I had to > do that to join and fair the liner at the seam and that was a pain even > though it was where I had the most room. Because I had removed the main > bulkhead I was able to place a strip of plywood to bridge the space between > the V-birth and a chair in the main cabin and then use that as a bed to lay > on. But that would not help you get into the bow. Just getting into the bow > area to replace deck hardware nuts and to fiberglass the hull-deck joint > was difficult. > > Turning the boat over would make it easier to work with but would not give > you more headroom. Actually I did that for another boat restoration I did > so flipping the boat is quite feasible. I built a big crate for the boat > that held it steady while I then turned the boat using come along winches > and foam blocks to cushion the fall once the boat passed the balance point. > I have pictures if you are interested. > > I wonder if it wouldn't be more feasible to remove (and later replace) the > flotation in the bow of the boat? You might then use some plywood for a > platform to work from. Even a few inches would make a big difference. I > think this would be the approach I would take if I were to lose my mind and > do it again. > > Good luck. Let us know how it works out. > > > Graham Stewart > Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 > Kingston Ontario > > > > From jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com Tue Dec 3 20:52:49 2019 From: jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com (Jesse Shumaker) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2019 18:52:49 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck In-Reply-To: References: <003201d5a8a7$da7e9030$8f7bb090$@ca> <003601d5a8c4$e23be490$a6b3adb0$@ca> <1575298706725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <00b701d5a9e6$2dade140$8909a3c0$@ca> <185718492.1623572.1575387870653@mail.yahoo.com> <00c601d5a9f7$ef036110$cd0a2330$@ca> <002101d5a9fe$f57f84e0$e07e8ea0$@ebsmed.com> <00d601d5aa05$499fde70$dcdf9b50$@ca> Message-ID: <1575424369617-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Restorers, thanks for sharing all the hard won experience on the topic of overhauling the foredeck. Very impressive work on formidable projects! I echo Chris's sentiments. Count me in as another member of of the S.P.C.R. and A.V.R.A. -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ From a_czerwonky at yahoo.com Tue Dec 3 20:53:46 2019 From: a_czerwonky at yahoo.com (Art Czerwonky) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2019 01:53:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck In-Reply-To: <1575424369617-0.post@n5.nabble.com> References: <003201d5a8a7$da7e9030$8f7bb090$@ca> <003601d5a8c4$e23be490$a6b3adb0$@ca> <1575298706725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <00b701d5a9e6$2dade140$8909a3c0$@ca> <185718492.1623572.1575387870653@mail.yahoo.com> <00c601d5a9f7$ef036110$cd0a2330$@ca> <002101d5a9fe$f57f84e0$e07e8ea0$@ebsmed.com> <00d601d5aa05$499fde70$dcdf9b50$@ca> <1575424369617-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1022235561.5587557.1575424426935@mail.yahoo.com> The rebuild skills of this group of skippers bodes well for the future of our fleet when GB may eventually not have the capability.? The business model has thrived well under Stan's excellent leadership and business acumen. Think about it, just building one fixture, the boom room and covers has been totally satisfying for me, especially having such satisfaction of client skippers. Best,Art Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 8:37 PM, Jesse Shumaker wrote: Restorers, thanks for sharing all the hard won experience on the topic of overhauling the foredeck.? Very impressive work on formidable projects! I echo Chris's sentiments.? Count me in as another member of of the S.P.C.R. and A.V.R.A. -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ From tavares0947 at gmail.com Wed Dec 4 11:40:00 2019 From: tavares0947 at gmail.com (Todd Tavares) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2019 11:40:00 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck In-Reply-To: <1022235561.5587557.1575424426935@mail.yahoo.com> References: <003201d5a8a7$da7e9030$8f7bb090$@ca> <003601d5a8c4$e23be490$a6b3adb0$@ca> <1575298706725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <00b701d5a9e6$2dade140$8909a3c0$@ca> <185718492.1623572.1575387870653@mail.yahoo.com> <00c601d5a9f7$ef036110$cd0a2330$@ca> <002101d5a9fe$f57f84e0$e07e8ea0$@ebsmed.com> <00d601d5aa05$499fde70$dcdf9b50$@ca> <1575424369617-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <1022235561.5587557.1575424426935@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MJM gave me sound advice early on. I'm paraphrasing here (I saved the email but hsve time to look for it) He said.... If you consider the time, money and aggravation involved with rebuilding and restoring an older boat; especially a Rhodes 22 with all of its one-of-a-kind and one-off parts, your time and money would be better spent buying a new boat or at least, one that needs less work. I have taken two Rhodes 22s to the dump. I have videos saved somewhere of the guys on the big earth movers racing to see who could crush them first. tavares0947 at gmail.com On Tue, Dec 3, 2019, 8:53 PM Art Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list < rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote: > The rebuild skills of this group of skippers bodes well for the future of > our fleet when GB may eventually not have the capability. The business > model has thrived well under Stan's excellent leadership and business > acumen. Think about it, just building one fixture, the boom room and covers > has been totally satisfying for me, especially having such satisfaction of > client skippers. > Best,Art > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > > On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 8:37 PM, Jesse Shumaker< > jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com> wrote: Restorers, thanks for sharing > all the hard won experience on the topic of > overhauling the foredeck. Very impressive work on formidable projects! > > I echo Chris's sentiments. Count me in as another member of of the > S.P.C.R. > and A.V.R.A. > > > > -- > Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ > > From rlowe at vt.edu Wed Dec 4 11:40:19 2019 From: rlowe at vt.edu (Lowe, Rob) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2019 16:40:19 +0000 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Cabin Liner Message-ID: Speaking of removing liners, has anyone attempted/figured out how to remove the liner in in the cabin? I'm trying to run some wiring from my electrical panel to the mast area and would prefer not to cut into the liner. Thanks - rob -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of Art Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2019 8:54 PM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck The rebuild skills of this group of skippers bodes well for the future of our fleet when GB may eventually not have the capability.? The business model has thrived well under Stan's excellent leadership and business acumen. Think about it, just building one fixture, the boom room and covers has been totally satisfying for me, especially having such satisfaction of client skippers. Best,Art Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 8:37 PM, Jesse Shumaker wrote: Restorers, thanks for sharing all the hard won experience on the topic of overhauling the foredeck.? Very impressive work on formidable projects! I echo Chris's sentiments.? Count me in as another member of of the S.P.C.R. and A.V.R.A. -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ From a_czerwonky at yahoo.com Wed Dec 4 12:33:56 2019 From: a_czerwonky at yahoo.com (Art Czerwonky) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2019 17:33:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck In-Reply-To: References: <003201d5a8a7$da7e9030$8f7bb090$@ca> <003601d5a8c4$e23be490$a6b3adb0$@ca> <1575298706725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <00b701d5a9e6$2dade140$8909a3c0$@ca> <185718492.1623572.1575387870653@mail.yahoo.com> <00c601d5a9f7$ef036110$cd0a2330$@ca> <002101d5a9fe$f57f84e0$e07e8ea0$@ebsmed.com> <00d601d5aa05$499fde70$dcdf9b50$@ca> <1575424369617-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <1022235561.5587557.1575424426935@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1781701587.5805195.1575480836929@mail.yahoo.com> Todd, Considering MJM's advise, Stan must have been very foolish in pursuing his business commitment over many years.? He has succeeded in a significant way based on his vision and efforts.? No other boat manufacturer is focused on redoing their boats, but smaller scale boatyards can if the market demands. Even a limited market justified my building boom rooms, but partly due to my creative motivation to make a difference for the fleet skippers. R, Art Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 11:40 AM, Todd Tavares wrote: MJM gave me sound advice early on. I'm paraphrasing here (I saved the email but hsve time to look for it)He said.... If you consider the time, money and aggravation involved with rebuilding and restoring an older boat; especially a Rhodes 22 with all of its one-of-a-kind and one-off parts, your time and money would be better spent buying a new boat or at least, one that needs less work.? I have taken two Rhodes 22s to the dump. I have videos saved somewhere of the guys on the big earth movers racing to see who could crush them first. tavares0947 at gmail.com On Tue, Dec 3, 2019, 8:53 PM Art Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list wrote: The rebuild skills of this group of skippers bodes well for the future of our fleet when GB may eventually not have the capability.? The business model has thrived well under Stan's excellent leadership and business acumen. Think about it, just building one fixture, the boom room and covers has been totally satisfying for me, especially having such satisfaction of client skippers. Best,Art Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android ? On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 8:37 PM, Jesse Shumaker wrote:? ?Restorers, thanks for sharing all the hard won experience on the topic of overhauling the foredeck.? Very impressive work on formidable projects! I echo Chris's sentiments.? Count me in as another member of of the S.P.C.R. and A.V.R.A. -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ From gstewart8 at cogeco.ca Wed Dec 4 12:35:48 2019 From: gstewart8 at cogeco.ca (Graham Stewart) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2019 12:35:48 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Cabin Liner In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002c01d5aac9$455403e0$cffc0ba0$@ca> Rob: I don't think it is feasible to remove the liner in the cabin. Mine is bonded solidly to the core. I wasn't even able to pull out the existing cabin light wires as they were also bonded in. Even if to managed to remove the liner, getting it bak in place would be a devil of a job. I got around the problem by putting my electrical panel on the main bulkhead and running wires to the back inside the side bunk lockers, under the floor boards, and up to the panel tucked behind the compression post. One other advantage to having the panel on the bulkhead is that you have easy access to the back of the panel - where I seem to spend an inexplicable amount of time. I put my single battery aft of the Vbirth and ran the heavy cables under the floor boards. That way the weight is forward, access is easy and the length of the cables are relatively short. If running wires behind the liner is necessary, then I think you might be forced to cut a channel for the wires and then fill it in or cover the channel. I found a pure white filling compound that I used to patch seams and holes in my liner beautifully. I didn't even need to touch up with gel coat or paint. Although the surface is not gloss you really don't notice the difference unless you really look for it. It might also be possible to polish the surface to a gloss finish but I didn't think that was necessary. I can't remember the name of the stuff but if you are interested I can look it up. Of course I have to keep reminding myself and others that newer boats might be different and allow for wires to be fished through behind the liner. Graham Stewart Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 Kingston Ontario -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Lowe, Rob Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 11:40 AM To: Art Czerwonky; The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Cabin Liner Speaking of removing liners, has anyone attempted/figured out how to remove the liner in in the cabin? I'm trying to run some wiring from my electrical panel to the mast area and would prefer not to cut into the liner. Thanks - rob -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of Art Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2019 8:54 PM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck The rebuild skills of this group of skippers bodes well for the future of our fleet when GB may eventually not have the capability. The business model has thrived well under Stan's excellent leadership and business acumen. Think about it, just building one fixture, the boom room and covers has been totally satisfying for me, especially having such satisfaction of client skippers. Best,Art Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 8:37 PM, Jesse Shumaker wrote: Restorers, thanks for sharing all the hard won experience on the topic of overhauling the foredeck. Very impressive work on formidable projects! I echo Chris's sentiments. Count me in as another member of of the S.P.C.R. and A.V.R.A. -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Interior final June 2018 (2).jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 162742 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Holding tank installation (5).jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1029383 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mweisner at ebsmed.com Wed Dec 4 13:04:27 2019 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (mweisner at ebsmed.com) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2019 13:04:27 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Cabin Liner In-Reply-To: <002c01d5aac9$455403e0$cffc0ba0$@ca> References: <002c01d5aac9$455403e0$cffc0ba0$@ca> Message-ID: <001e01d5aacd$45837b80$d08a7280$@ebsmed.com> I found it much easier to run wires behind teak (or other wood) molding than to try to snake though the ceiling of the Rhodes 22. Nowadays, I am inclined to use a self adhesive, plastic wire raceway. They are available from a variety of sources (Home Depot, Lowes, Amazon, etc.) in many colors (white, almond, ivory, black) and are fairly inexpensive. Amazon features "One-Cord Cable Concealer, 157in Cord Cover, PVC Wire Molding, Paintable Wire Channel to Hide a Single Power Cord, Speaker Wire or TV Cables in Home or Office - 10X L15.7in, W0.59in, H0.4in" for $14.99 (https://www.amazon.com/One-Cord-Concealer-Management-Paintable-Ethernet/dp/B07GPBJV6K/ref=sr_1_18?crid=2AHRRTTLQS5A&keywords=wiring+channel+wall&qid=1575482093&sprefix=wiring+ch%2Caps%2C133&sr=8-18) They are available in several widths and heights depending on what you want to put inside. They are easily re-opened and you can add wires as needs arise. To ensure that the adhesive bonds properly, clean the wiring channel and the ceiling liner with alcohol prior to applying the double sided tape. Mike s/v Wind Lass ('91) Nissequogue River, NY -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of Graham Stewart Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 12:36 PM To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Cabin Liner Rob: I don't think it is feasible to remove the liner in the cabin. Mine is bonded solidly to the core. I wasn't even able to pull out the existing cabin light wires as they were also bonded in. Even if to managed to remove the liner, getting it bak in place would be a devil of a job. I got around the problem by putting my electrical panel on the main bulkhead and running wires to the back inside the side bunk lockers, under the floor boards, and up to the panel tucked behind the compression post. One other advantage to having the panel on the bulkhead is that you have easy access to the back of the panel - where I seem to spend an inexplicable amount of time. I put my single battery aft of the Vbirth and ran the heavy cables under the floor boards. That way the weight is forward, access is easy and the length of the cables are relatively short. If running wires behind the liner is necessary, then I think you might be forced to cut a channel for the wires and then fill it in or cover the channel. I found a pure white filling compound that I used to patch seams and holes in my liner beautifully. I didn't even need to touch up with gel coat or paint. Although the surface is not gloss you really don't notice the difference unless you really look for it. It might also be possible to polish the surface to a gloss finish but I didn't think that was necessary. I can't remember the name of the stuff but if you are interested I can look it up. Of course I have to keep reminding myself and others that newer boats might be different and allow for wires to be fished through behind the liner. Graham Stewart Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 Kingston Ontario > From peter at sunnybeeches.com Wed Dec 4 15:21:16 2019 From: peter at sunnybeeches.com (Peter Nyberg) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2019 15:21:16 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Cabin Liner In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I agree with Graham that removing the liner isn?t a practical solution. On my boat GB ran the wires for the mast from the electrical panel above the galley counter-top, down along the hull behind the icebox, under the cabinet base, then forward through a hole at the bottom of the bulkhead under the head floor, then up a chase along side the compression post. From the top of the compression post, the wires are exposed for a few inches before running into a hole in the overhead just forward of the mast. The boat has a semi-enclosed head layout. Peter Nyberg Coventry, CT s/v Silverheels (1988/2016) > On Dec 4, 2019, at 11:40 AM, Lowe, Rob wrote: > > Speaking of removing liners, has anyone attempted/figured out how to remove the liner in in the cabin? I'm trying to run some wiring from my electrical panel to the mast area and would prefer not to cut into the liner. Thanks - rob > From keywestseccorp at verizon.net Wed Dec 4 16:24:53 2019 From: keywestseccorp at verizon.net (Mark West) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2019 21:24:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Cabin Liner In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1397804692.5894061.1575494693338@mail.yahoo.com> I agree with Peter only difference the mast support bulkhead on my 1989 is hollow all wires are ran up bulkhead into the mast base concealed? -----Original Message----- From: Peter Nyberg To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Sent: Wed, Dec 4, 2019 3:21 pm Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Cabin Liner I agree with Graham that removing the liner isn?t a practical solution. On my boat GB ran the wires for the mast from the electrical panel above the galley counter-top, down along the hull behind the icebox, under the cabinet base, then forward through a hole at the bottom of the bulkhead under the head floor, then up a chase along side the compression post.? From the top of the compression post, the wires are exposed for a few inches before running into a hole in the overhead just forward of the mast.? The boat has a semi-enclosed head layout. Peter Nyberg Coventry, CT s/v Silverheels (1988/2016) > On Dec 4, 2019, at 11:40 AM, Lowe, Rob wrote: > > Speaking of removing liners, has anyone attempted/figured out how to remove the liner in in the cabin?? I'm trying to run some wiring from my electrical panel to the mast area and would prefer not to cut into the liner.? Thanks - rob > From mitchpadl at gmail.com Wed Dec 4 20:55:05 2019 From: mitchpadl at gmail.com (Mitch Mitchell) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2019 20:55:05 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard Message-ID: <886FFEBF-7FD2-4E66-ABF8-F68D18D21BFD@gmail.com> I?m planning on taking a long road trip with my R22 and wondering if those of you who tow do so with an outboard attached to the stern. I have an 8hp 2 stroke Merc and a 30 year old mount (image attached). This is my first trip with this boat and am picturing myself on I 95 with the motor dragging along behind me. I will be towing with a truck camper so nowhere to put motor if not on stern. Any suggestions or views would be appreciated, Mitch -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 31824 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hnw555 at gmail.com Wed Dec 4 21:02:19 2019 From: hnw555 at gmail.com (Hank) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2019 21:02:19 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard In-Reply-To: <886FFEBF-7FD2-4E66-ABF8-F68D18D21BFD@gmail.com> References: <886FFEBF-7FD2-4E66-ABF8-F68D18D21BFD@gmail.com> Message-ID: You can always put the motor in the cockpit... On Wed, Dec 4, 2019, 20:55 Mitch Mitchell wrote: > I?m planning on taking a long road trip with my R22 and wondering if those > of you who tow do so with an outboard attached to the stern. I have an 8hp > 2 stroke Merc and a 30 year old mount (image attached). This is my first > trip with this boat and am picturing myself on I 95 with the motor dragging > along behind me. I will be towing with a truck camper so nowhere to put > motor if not on stern. Any suggestions or views would be appreciated, > > Mitch > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: image1.jpeg > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 31824 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: < > http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20191204/7228515d/attachment.jpeg > > > From sjcclu at msn.com Wed Dec 4 21:16:25 2019 From: sjcclu at msn.com (Stephen CongdonCLU) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 02:16:25 +0000 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 4159, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: Rhodes22-list on behalf of rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 11:40:21 AM To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org Subject: Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 4159, Issue 1 Send Rhodes22-list mailing list submissions to rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org You can reach the person managing the list at rhodes22-list-owner at rhodes22.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Rhodes22-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Long term cruising stowage (S/V Lark) 2. Re: hatch on foredeck (Graham Stewart) 3. Re: hatch on foredeck (Peter Nyberg) 4. Re: Long term cruising stowage (Chris Geankoplis) 5. Re: hatch on foredeck (Graham Stewart) 6. Re: hatch on foredeck (James Nichols) 7. Re: Long term cruising stowage (James Nichols) 8. Re: hatch on foredeck (ROGER PIHLAJA) 9. Re: hatch on foredeck (Jesse Shumaker) 10. Re: Long term cruising stowage (Jesse Shumaker) 11. Re: hatch on foredeck (Todd Tavares) 12. Re: hatch on foredeck (Peter Nyberg) 13. Re: Long term cruising stowage (Chris Geankoplis) 14. Re: hatch on foredeck (Graham Stewart) 15. Re: hatch on foredeck (James Nichols) 16. Re: hatch on foredeck (Graham Stewart) 17. Re: hatch on foredeck (mweisner at ebsmed.com) 18. Re: hatch on foredeck (Graham Stewart) 19. Re: hatch on foredeck (Chris Geankoplis) 20. Re: hatch on foredeck (Jesse Shumaker) 21. Re: hatch on foredeck (Art Czerwonky) 22. Re: hatch on foredeck (Todd Tavares) 23. Cabin Liner (Lowe, Rob) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2019 16:49:24 -0700 (MST) From: S/V Lark To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Long term cruising stowage Message-ID: <1575244164482-0.post at n5.nabble.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Can you add detail about your cargo bars under the cockpit seat? I?ve been wanting to engineer something for this. I considered rope, which would put the cockpit casting under stress compared to your system. I didn?t want to add holes until I was sure. Have you ever weighed your gear? I assume you need your cockpit plug under ordinary conditions? Alex ----- Alex Cole S/V Lark -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2019 19:31:31 -0500 From: "Graham Stewart" To: "'The Rhodes 22 Email List'" Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck Message-ID: <003201d5a8a7$da7e9030$8f7bb090$@ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" The rub rails are not solid - as you can see in the attached photo - but the glass is probably thick enough to hold screws if they are installed properly. I my case I installed the chocks inboard of the rub rails where they were originally installed and could be bolted through the deck with fender washers and nuts on the inside. I don't trust screws for anything that takes a significant strain. However, I raised them up 1" on blocks of composite lumber so that the lines cleared the rub rails to avoid chafe and blemishes. The second photo shows where they were placed originally. Graham Graham Stewart Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 Kingston Ontario -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Peter Nyberg Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2019 5:48 PM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck Jesse, Probably the simplest solution for your anchor rode issue would be to install chocks on the toe rail in positions that would lead the rode away from the vent. My guess is that the toe rail is solid fiberglass, so you should be able to get a solid attachment. ?Peter > On Dec 1, 2019, at 12:21 PM, Jesse Shumaker wrote: > > Graham, Peter, and Mary Lou, thanks for your replies. Mary Lou, you have an > encyclopedic knowledge of R22 history. Thanks for continuing to post even > after selling your R22. I read quite a bit about different pocket cruisers > before deciding what type of boat I wanted and your chapter in the Sailing > Small book helped steer me towards a Rhodes 22. > > Since I'm installing the solar vent fan in the anchor locker hole near the > bow, I'll just see how sleeping in the v-birth goes with that in place. The > former owner wired in a fan to the electrical connection for the light above > the porta potty and I can point that towards the v-birth to help with > airflow. The former owner also left onboard another 12v fan that I could > plug in and use in the main part of the cabin if needed. I would be > reluctant to cut another hole in the deck since each additional hole comes > with it's own risk of water problems and adding a hatch would involve > additional expense. > > It appears that use of solar vent fan in the existing 3" hole near the bow > is a common approach. As I was installing mine, it occurred to me that this > could affect anchoring since the bow cleat is aft of the solar vent. For > those with a solar vent, I was wondering what approach you take for running > the rode. Here are some approaches that came to mind initially: > > - Run the rode around the outside of the bow pulpit to avoid any pressure > against the solar vent. With this approach, perhaps the rode could be run > through the u-bolt on the hull on the bow to ensure the anchor rode extends > directly in front of the boat > > -Run alongside and against the the solar vent. With this approach, perhaps > it would be possible to put some sort of protection around the solar vent > when anchoring. I was concerned that pressure from the rode against the > solar vent could cause damage to the plastic solar vent or chafe against the > sealant at the base of the solar vent. > > - Use some sort of bridal system that would go around both sides the solar > vent and perhaps outside the bow pulpit. > > Any advice on this would be appreciated. I've done very little anchoring so > I'm especially a novice in this area. > > > > -- > Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Deck reconstruction Aug 2011 (6).jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 179157 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: deck hardware (2).jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 176040 bytes Desc: not available URL: ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2019 20:37:53 -0500 From: Peter Nyberg To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I stand corrected. I?d follow Graham?s advice. I?m not sure what material he?s referring to when he mentions ?composite lumber?, but I think Starboard would be a good choice for raising the chocks off the deck. ?Peter > On Dec 1, 2019, at 7:31 PM, Graham Stewart wrote: > > The rub rails are not solid - as you can see in the attached photo - but the glass is probably thick enough to hold screws if they are installed properly. I my case I installed the chocks inboard of the rub rails where they were originally installed and could be bolted through the deck with fender washers and nuts on the inside. I don't trust screws for anything that takes a significant strain. However, I raised them up 1" on blocks of composite lumber so that the lines cleared the rub rails to avoid chafe and blemishes. > > The second photo shows where they were placed originally. > > Graham > > Graham Stewart > Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 > Kingston Ontario > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Peter Nyberg > Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2019 5:48 PM > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck > > Jesse, > > Probably the simplest solution for your anchor rode issue would be to install chocks on the toe rail in positions that would lead the rode away from the vent. My guess is that the toe rail is solid fiberglass, so you should be able to get a solid attachment. > > ?Peter ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2019 21:04:55 -0600 From: Chris Geankoplis To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Long term cruising stowage Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hey Alex, I should have weighed it and considered it but each time when both parts came together, I didn't have a scale. I'll try to do it next time I am preping the boat next spring. One cargo bar were made from a clothes bar from an RV (oval in profile) 1/2 X 1 ", on the port side. Couldn't get anymore so I used square alum stock 3/4 or i" for the stb. side. I then cut the aft sockets to fit the profile of each. On the forward end I cut a "U" channel of appropriate dimensions. The sockets themselves were made of 1/2" HDPE. I also made cap plugs for each bar for both to avoid any sharp or scratchy ends. I use a Dremel to carve each cap. The sockets were secured with 4 SS screws and finishing washers for each. I've had them on board for the last 15 years with no issues. Be sure you settle on what dimensions you will use on the under seat storage containers including your fuel tank so you know how far to center line to place the bars. My port bar is a bit closer to center line than the stb. one based on what I stow under each seat. And yes, with all that stuff I do use a plug with an extra wrap of rescue tape to keep the water on the proper side of the hull. Good luck with the project. Chris G. ENOSIS On Sun, Dec 1, 2019 at 5:34 PM S/V Lark wrote: > Can you add detail about your cargo bars under the cockpit seat? I?ve > been > wanting to engineer something for this. I considered rope, which would > put > the cockpit casting under stress compared to your system. I didn?t want > to add holes until I was sure. > > Have you ever weighed your gear? I assume you need your cockpit plug under > ordinary conditions? > > Alex > > > > ----- > Alex Cole > S/V Lark > -- > Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ > ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2019 22:59:19 -0500 From: "Graham Stewart" To: "'The Rhodes 22 Email List'" Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck Message-ID: <003601d5a8c4$e23be490$a6b3adb0$@ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Peter: When I refer to "composite lumber" I am just talking about composite deck boards. In my case I used some scrap pieces in a variety of places where I wanted a wood-like trim without any upkeep. This material has little strength and can't hold screws or be glued so it is relegated to situations where it can be bolted in place and has no structural purpose - like cockpit trim. I used it in a variety of places such as for blocks under the chocks. Starboard is a better product for sure in terms of strength but where strength isn't important then composite boards are much less expensive, come in a variety of colors and has a wood grain appearance on one side. It is easy to work with, is oblivious to UV and needs no maintenance. I used the composite to replace the cabin sliding hatch runners (see photo) and so far it has held up well. I don't know why it isn't used more on boats. Maybe others on the list can comment. Graham Stewart Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 Kingston Ontario -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Peter Nyberg Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2019 8:38 PM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck I stand corrected. I?d follow Graham?s advice. I?m not sure what material he?s referring to when he mentions ?composite lumber?, but I think Starboard would be a good choice for raising the chocks off the deck. ?Peter > On Dec 1, 2019, at 7:31 PM, Graham Stewart wrote: > > The rub rails are not solid - as you can see in the attached photo - but the glass is probably thick enough to hold screws if they are installed properly. I my case I installed the chocks inboard of the rub rails where they were originally installed and could be bolted through the deck with fender washers and nuts on the inside. I don't trust screws for anything that takes a significant strain. However, I raised them up 1" on blocks of composite lumber so that the lines cleared the rub rails to avoid chafe and blemishes. > > The second photo shows where they were placed originally. > > Graham > > Graham Stewart > Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 > Kingston Ontario > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Peter Nyberg > Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2019 5:48 PM > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck > > Jesse, > > Probably the simplest solution for your anchor rode issue would be to install chocks on the toe rail in positions that would lead the rode away from the vent. My guess is that the toe rail is solid fiberglass, so you should be able to get a solid attachment. > > ?Peter -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Sliding hatch with composite rails December 2013 (2).jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 326626 bytes Desc: not available URL: ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 05:54:57 +0000 (UTC) From: James Nichols To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck Message-ID: <981891048.4904675.1575266097828 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Graham,? We are starting to see it more and more in products specially made for boats,? so of course they are expensive products rather than the fairly inexpensive composite decking.? Things like the faux teak cost nearly as much as three real thing.? Using composite decking instead would be a much better solution.? I have seen composite decking used for interior flooring a bit.?? James ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 06:10:00 +0000 (UTC) From: James Nichols To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Long term cruising stowage Message-ID: <687185153.1412567.1575267000653 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I would recommend using a one way scupper instead of a plug.? Pretty cheap and you don't have to fumble for the plug if you take on water.? Search Flow Max scupper on Amazon or your favorite marine retailer,? $15.00 each,? and Stan might not void your unsinkable warranty.? James ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 12:09:30 +0000 From: ROGER PIHLAJA To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi All, S/V Dynamic Equilibrium has had black UV stabilized ultra high molecular weight polyethylene (ie Starboard although that brand wasn?t available back then) slides on the cabin top and the companionway hatch since 1992. I also use 2? wide Teflon tape under the companionway hatch slide as a wear surface so the hatch or cabin roof are not worn down. I had to replace the Teflon tape once in 2012, so I?m getting about 20 years of life on the wear surface. The UHMWPE slides still look new after 27+ seasons, are easy to clean, and completely maintenance free. I like the gloss black look; but, some people prefer the varnished wood look. Pound per pound UHMWPE is one of the most expensive polymers, which might explain why it isn?t used more by boat makers. The material is used a lot for whitewater kayak hulls, which are subject to tremendous abuse! The central hull on my Walker Bay RIB is made from UHMWPE. It came with a 10 year warranty, which is the longest warranty period in the inflatable industry. The RIB is now 7 years old. Except for a few minor scratches up on the bow, it still looks new Roger Pihlaja S/V Dynamic Equilibrium Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 1, 2019, at 10:59 PM, Graham Stewart wrote: > > ?Peter: > When I refer to "composite lumber" I am just talking about composite deck boards. In my case I used some scrap pieces in a variety of places where I wanted a wood-like trim without any upkeep. This material has little strength and can't hold screws or be glued so it is relegated to situations where it can be bolted in place and has no structural purpose - like cockpit trim. I used it in a variety of places such as for blocks under the chocks. > > Starboard is a better product for sure in terms of strength but where strength isn't important then composite boards are much less expensive, come in a variety of colors and has a wood grain appearance on one side. It is easy to work with, is oblivious to UV and needs no maintenance. > > I used the composite to replace the cabin sliding hatch runners (see photo) and so far it has held up well. > > I don't know why it isn't used more on boats. Maybe others on the list can comment. > > > Graham Stewart > Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 > Kingston Ontario > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Peter Nyberg > Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2019 8:38 PM > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck > > I stand corrected. I?d follow Graham?s advice. I?m not sure what material he?s referring to when he mentions ?composite lumber?, but I think Starboard would be a good choice for raising the chocks off the deck. > > ?Peter > >> On Dec 1, 2019, at 7:31 PM, Graham Stewart wrote: >> >> The rub rails are not solid - as you can see in the attached photo - but the glass is probably thick enough to hold screws if they are installed properly. I my case I installed the chocks inboard of the rub rails where they were originally installed and could be bolted through the deck with fender washers and nuts on the inside. I don't trust screws for anything that takes a significant strain. However, I raised them up 1" on blocks of composite lumber so that the lines cleared the rub rails to avoid chafe and blemishes. >> >> The second photo shows where they were placed originally. >> >> Graham >> >> Graham Stewart >> Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 >> Kingston Ontario >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Peter Nyberg >> Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2019 5:48 PM >> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck >> >> Jesse, >> >> Probably the simplest solution for your anchor rode issue would be to install chocks on the toe rail in positions that would lead the rode away from the vent. My guess is that the toe rail is solid fiberglass, so you should be able to get a solid attachment. >> >> ?Peter > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: Sliding hatch with composite rails December 2013 (2).jpg > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 326626 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 07:58:26 -0700 (MST) From: Jesse Shumaker To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck Message-ID: <1575298706725-0.post at n5.nabble.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Thanks for the replies and tips. I will proceed with adding chocks as suggested since that should address my concerns. I'll post a photo of the finished results on a related post (at the link below) about adding the solar vent. I've got one minor tweak to make and the solar vent installation will be done. http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/gasket-for-mounting-solar-vent-td56219.html Graham, your photos illustrate some major projects. Did you replace the foredeck yourself? If so, did you end up ordering a replacement foredeck from GB for the installation? -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 08:02:57 -0700 (MST) From: Jesse Shumaker To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Long term cruising stowage Message-ID: <1575298977846-0.post at n5.nabble.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii James, thanks for the tip on the one way scupper. From the reviews on these products at first glance, it sounds like this solution has worked well for others with this type of issue. I plan to give that a try and see how it goes. -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 10:14:06 -0500 From: Todd Tavares To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Speaking of composites, has anyone had an opportunity to work with Coosa boards? https://www.boatoutfitters.com/coosa-composites-board?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIx8aVhKCX5gIVy8DACh0irAglEAAYASACEgLiDvD_BwE Maybe our resident engineer could get a sales sample and give his opinion? Hmmmm? Todd T. tavares0947 at gmail.com On Mon, Dec 2, 2019, 9:43 AM Jesse Shumaker wrote: > Thanks for the replies and tips. I will proceed with adding chocks as > suggested since that should address my concerns. I'll post a photo of the > finished results on a related post (at the link below) about adding the > solar vent. I've got one minor tweak to make and the solar vent > installation will be done. > > > http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/gasket-for-mounting-solar-vent-td56219.html > > Graham, your photos illustrate some major projects. Did you replace the > foredeck yourself? If so, did you end up ordering a replacement foredeck > from GB for the installation? > > > > -- > Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ > ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 10:20:15 -0500 From: Peter Nyberg To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 The BoatworksToday YouTube channel has a couple of recent videos about working with Coosa. Here?s one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5-_fOPzlHM Peter Nyberg Coventry, CT s/v Silverheels (1988/2016) > On Dec 2, 2019, at 10:14 AM, Todd Tavares wrote: > > Speaking of composites, has anyone had an opportunity to work with Coosa > boards? > > https://www.boatoutfitters.com/coosa-composites-board?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIx8aVhKCX5gIVy8DACh0irAglEAAYASACEgLiDvD_BwE > > Maybe our resident engineer could get a sales sample and give his opinion? > Hmmmm? > > Todd T. > > tavares0947 at gmail.com > ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 10:17:36 -0600 From: Chris Geankoplis To: James Nichols , The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Long term cruising stowage Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hey James, Thanks for that piece of information, it sounds like the ticket. I'll check it out. A couple of times when the boat was docked, I didn't remove the plug and a thunderstorm added an inch of water that would have drained out if I hadn't left the plug in. Chris Geankoplis ENOSIS On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 12:10 AM James Nichols via Rhodes22-list < rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote: > I would recommend using a one way scupper instead of a plug. Pretty cheap > and you don't have to fumble for the plug if you take on water. > Search Flow Max scupper on Amazon or your favorite marine retailer, > $15.00 each, and Stan might not void your unsinkable warranty. > James > ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2019 09:30:09 -0500 From: "Graham Stewart" To: "'The Rhodes 22 Email List'" Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck Message-ID: <00b701d5a9e6$2dade140$8909a3c0$@ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jesse: Yes, I did some major restoration work which showed in part in the photo of the foredeck being removed. I literally cut the deck in front of the cabin roof and removed it. I then separated the liner, removed the core material, replaced the core with multiple layers of epoxy-coated marine plywood, and then reinstalled the deck. It might sound like a simple 4-step process but it took me all summer just to do that. Refinishing the boat was another big project. Had I know then what I know now I would have realized that all that was unnecessary. I thought that the core was in very poor condition as I knew there had been a water leak into the core, the deck was very soft when I stood on I, and I had a nest of flying ants above the liner that I assumed was an indication of severe core damage. At the time was encouraged to be so adventurous because I thought that there was a very good chance that I would end up taking the boat to the dump as being unsalvageable. I was just curious to see what was happening between the deck skin and liner. As it turned out, there was very little damage to the core. The wet spot was relatively small with no sign of rot and there was no trace of damage from the flying ants. However, the core was made of regular indoor plywood that had dried out and delaminated from the deck and liner. It had only been attached with very little strands of sealant that in most areas hadn't even touched the skins. Hence it came apart and was removed mostly with my bare hands. The individual layers of the plywood had also separated. As a result the deck had lost virtually all of its rigidity. It would have been much, much, much less trouble and probably just as effective to have dried out the wet spot and then injected thickened epoxy into the entire core and between the core and the deck skin, but without being able to see what was happening I had no idea that epoxy injection would be effective. In fact, for the side decks I used this method of epoxy injection and got very good results. There are a few tricks to getting the epoxy into the right places and being able to see the core from the cut edge was essential to that process. I posted this work and my conclusions to the list so that all those contemplating the removal of their deck might avoid a lot of work. As it turned out there were not a lot of people contemplating doing that. However, It I think it might have been useful to some to be able to see what I discovered inside the deck. Getting the deck pack on and aligned turned out to be a very difficult process - for a complete novice like me. I had made a frame to hold the foredeck in its original shape while I replaced the core but, while it helped, it didn't work very well and the new deck did not align well with the rest of the boat. (The deck is much less symmetrical than I had expected it to be.) So fitting it back on the boat was very time-consuming and required a LOT of fairing and reinforcement. In the end, however, the surgery is not visible either on the inside or outside and I have a foredeck that could puncture a concrete wall. To finish the deck I had to grind off all of the non-skid gel coat on the foredeck and side decks, apply several layers of glass and endless fairing to the entire area, paint the entire deck and cockpit, and apply a new nonskid. All in all a ridiculous amount of work. It took about four years of summer work just to this repair - although I was doing a plethora of other repairs as well. The total restoration took seven years. I note that somewhere along the line Stan stopped using plywood as the core material for the R22 and as a result the problems I had would be avoided. My advice to anyone purchasing an older R22 would be to determine what the core material is before the purchase. Graham Stewart Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 Kingston Ontario -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Jesse Shumaker Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 9:58 AM To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck Thanks for the replies and tips. I will proceed with adding chocks as suggested since that should address my concerns. I'll post a photo of the finished results on a related post (at the link below) about adding the solar vent. I've got one minor tweak to make and the solar vent installation will be done. http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/gasket-for-mounting-solar-vent-td5621 9.html Graham, your photos illustrate some major projects. Did you replace the foredeck yourself? If so, did you end up ordering a replacement foredeck from GB for the installation? -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2019 15:44:30 +0000 (UTC) From: James Nichols To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck Message-ID: <185718492.1623572.1575387870653 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Graham,? I started a similar project on mine.? I've come close to deciding that it was best to abandon it a few times because of my lack of time to commit to the project,? but I'm sticking with it.? I have the interior skin removed from the fore deck.? And the core material as well.? It was much the same as yours.? Barely attached,? but mine had much more water damage to the core as the forward hatch was badly deteriorated and allowed water in around the edges.? I had considered removing the deck,? turning it over and working on it upside down,? but then I saw some videos of reinstalling a deck and the amount of work it took to get the hull and deck back into the same alignment as before and decided I didn't have the equipment for that.? So,? I'm working on mine still together. Considering turning the entire boat upside down right now.?I'm going back with 1/4 ? 1/2" strips of oak,? building it back from the inside.? Pretty certain I'm going to leave the oak exposed and give it a nice stained finish.? In the end,? I expect mine with pierce that same concrete wall right next to yours.? James On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 8:30 AM, Graham Stewart wrote: Jesse: Yes, I did some major restoration work which showed in part in the photo of the foredeck being removed. I literally cut the deck in front of the cabin roof and removed it. I then separated the liner, removed the core material, replaced the core with multiple layers of epoxy-coated marine plywood, and then reinstalled the deck. It might sound like a simple 4-step process but it took me all summer just to do that. Refinishing the boat was another big project. Had I know then what I know now I would have realized that all that was unnecessary. I thought that the core was in very poor condition as I knew there had been a water leak into the core, the deck was very soft when I stood on I, and I had a nest of flying ants above the liner that I assumed was an indication of severe core damage. At the time was encouraged to be so adventurous because I thought that there was a very good chance that I would end up taking the boat to the dump as being unsalvageable. I was just curious to see what was happening between the deck skin and liner. As it turned out, there was very little damage to the core. The wet spot was relatively small with no sign of rot and there was no trace of damage from the flying ants. However, the core was made of regular indoor plywood that had dried out and delaminated from the deck and liner. It had only been attached with very little strands of sealant that in most areas hadn't even touched the skins. Hence it came apart and was removed mostly with my bare hands. The individual layers of the plywood had also separated. As a result the deck had lost virtually all of its rigidity. It would have been much, much, much less trouble and probably just as effective to have dried out the wet spot and then injected thickened epoxy into the entire core and between the core and the deck skin, but without being able to see what was happening I had no idea that epoxy injection would be effective. In fact, for the side decks I used this method of epoxy injection and got very good results. There are a few tricks to getting the epoxy into the right places and being able to see the core from the cut edge was essential to that process. I posted this work and my conclusions to the list so that all those contemplating the removal of their deck might avoid a lot of work. As it turned out there were not? a lot of people contemplating doing that. However, It I think it might have been useful to some to be able to see what I discovered inside the deck. Getting the deck pack on and aligned turned out to be a very difficult process - for a complete novice like me. I had made a frame to hold the foredeck in its original shape while I replaced the core but, while it helped, it didn't work very well and the new deck did not align well with the rest of the boat. (The deck is much less symmetrical than I had expected it to be.) So fitting it back on the boat was very time-consuming and required a LOT of fairing and reinforcement. In the end, however, the surgery is not visible either on the inside or outside and I have a foredeck that could puncture a concrete wall. To finish the deck I had to grind off all of the non-skid gel coat on the foredeck and side decks, apply several layers of glass and endless fairing to the entire area, paint the entire deck and cockpit, and apply a new nonskid. All in all a ridiculous amount of work. It took about four years of summer work just to this repair - although I was doing a plethora of other repairs as well. The total restoration took seven years. I note that somewhere along the line Stan stopped using plywood as the core material for the R22 and as a result the problems I had would be avoided. My advice to anyone purchasing an older R22 would be to determine what the core material is before the purchase. Graham Stewart Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 Kingston Ontario -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Jesse Shumaker Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 9:58 AM To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck Thanks for the replies and tips.? I will proceed with adding chocks as suggested since that should address my concerns. I'll post a photo of the finished results on a related post (at the link below) about adding the solar vent.? I've got one minor tweak to make and the solar vent installation will be done. http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/gasket-for-mounting-solar-vent-td5621 9.html Graham, your photos illustrate some major projects.? Did you replace the foredeck yourself?? If so, did you end up ordering a replacement foredeck from GB for the installation? -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2019 11:37:14 -0500 From: "Graham Stewart" To: "'James Nichols'" , "'The Rhodes 22 Email List'" Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck Message-ID: <00c601d5a9f7$ef036110$cd0a2330$@ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" James: Sounds like a good strategy that will have a number of advantages to my approach. With adequate core material properly bonded to the deck skin there should be no need for the liner. In fact, I found that with my boat the core and liner was not bonded anywhere making the liner of little structural use anyway. The hard part is finding a way to work in such a confined area. I had to do that to join and fair the liner at the seam and that was a pain even though it was where I had the most room. Because I had removed the main bulkhead I was able to place a strip of plywood to bridge the space between the V-birth and a chair in the main cabin and then use that as a bed to lay on. But that would not help you get into the bow. Just getting into the bow area to replace deck hardware nuts and to fiberglass the hull-deck joint was difficult. Turning the boat over would make it easier to work with but would not give you more headroom. Actually I did that for another boat restoration I did so flipping the boat is quite feasible. I built a big crate for the boat that held it steady while I then turned the boat using come along winches and foam blocks to cushion the fall once the boat passed the balance point. I have pictures if you are interested. I wonder if it wouldn't be more feasible to remove (and later replace) the flotation in the bow of the boat? You might then use some plywood for a platform to work from. Even a few inches would make a big difference. I think this would be the approach I would take if I were to lose my mind and do it again. Good luck. Let us know how it works out. Graham Stewart Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 Kingston Ontario -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of James Nichols via Rhodes22-list Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2019 10:45 AM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck Graham, I started a similar project on mine. I've come close to deciding that it was best to abandon it a few times because of my lack of time to commit to the project, but I'm sticking with it. I have the interior skin removed from the fore deck. And the core material as well. It was much the same as yours. Barely attached, but mine had much more water damage to the core as the forward hatch was badly deteriorated and allowed water in around the edges. I had considered removing the deck, turning it over and working on it upside down, but then I saw some videos of reinstalling a deck and the amount of work it took to get the hull and deck back into the same alignment as before and decided I didn't have the equipment for that. So, I'm working on mine still together. Considering turning the entire boat upside down right now. I'm going back with 1/4 ? 1/2" strips of oak, building it back from the inside. Pretty certain I'm going to leave the oak exposed and give it a nice stained finish. In the end, I expect mine with pierce that same concrete wall right next to yours. James On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 8:30 AM, Graham Stewart wrote: Jesse: Yes, I did some major restoration work which showed in part in the photo of the foredeck being removed. I literally cut the deck in front of the cabin roof and removed it. I then separated the liner, removed the core material, replaced the core with multiple layers of epoxy-coated marine plywood, and then reinstalled the deck. It might sound like a simple 4-step process but it took me all summer just to do that. Refinishing the boat was another big project. Had I know then what I know now I would have realized that all that was unnecessary. I thought that the core was in very poor condition as I knew there had been a water leak into the core, the deck was very soft when I stood on I, and I had a nest of flying ants above the liner that I assumed was an indication of severe core damage. At the time was encouraged to be so adventurous because I thought that there was a very good chance that I would end up taking the boat to the dump as being unsalvageable. I was just curious to see what was happening between the deck skin and liner. As it turned out, there was very little damage to the core. The wet spot was relatively small with no sign of rot and there was no trace of damage from the flying ants. However, the core was made of regular indoor plywood that had dried out and delaminated from the deck and liner. It had only been attached with very little strands of sealant that in most areas hadn't even touched the skins. Hence it came apart and was removed mostly with my bare hands. The individual layers of the plywood had also separated. As a result the deck had lost virtually all of its rigidity. It would have been much, much, much less trouble and probably just as effective to have dried out the wet spot and then injected thickened epoxy into the entire core and between the core and the deck skin, but without being able to see what was happening I had no idea that epoxy injection would be effective. In fact, for the side decks I used this method of epoxy injection and got very good results. There are a few tricks to getting the epoxy into the right places and being able to see the core from the cut edge was essential to that process. I posted this work and my conclusions to the list so that all those contemplating the removal of their deck might avoid a lot of work. As it turned out there were not a lot of people contemplating doing that. However, It I think it might have been useful to some to be able to see what I discovered inside the deck. Getting the deck pack on and aligned turned out to be a very difficult process - for a complete novice like me. I had made a frame to hold the foredeck in its original shape while I replaced the core but, while it helped, it didn't work very well and the new deck did not align well with the rest of the boat. (The deck is much less symmetrical than I had expected it to be.) So fitting it back on the boat was very time-consuming and required a LOT of fairing and reinforcement. In the end, however, the surgery is not visible either on the inside or outside and I have a foredeck that could puncture a concrete wall. To finish the deck I had to grind off all of the non-skid gel coat on the foredeck and side decks, apply several layers of glass and endless fairing to the entire area, paint the entire deck and cockpit, and apply a new nonskid. All in all a ridiculous amount of work. It took about four years of summer work just to this repair - although I was doing a plethora of other repairs as well. The total restoration took seven years. I note that somewhere along the line Stan stopped using plywood as the core material for the R22 and as a result the problems I had would be avoided. My advice to anyone purchasing an older R22 would be to determine what the core material is before the purchase. Graham Stewart Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 Kingston Ontario -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Jesse Shumaker Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 9:58 AM To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck Thanks for the replies and tips. I will proceed with adding chocks as suggested since that should address my concerns. I'll post a photo of the finished results on a related post (at the link below) about adding the solar vent. I've got one minor tweak to make and the solar vent installation will be done. http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/gasket-for-mounting-solar-vent-td5621 9.html Graham, your photos illustrate some major projects. Did you replace the foredeck yourself? If so, did you end up ordering a replacement foredeck from GB for the installation? -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2019 12:27:36 -0500 From: To: "'The Rhodes 22 Email List'" Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck Message-ID: <002101d5a9fe$f57f84e0$e07e8ea0$@ebsmed.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Graham & James, I agree on removing the floatation foam in the bow. At least you would have room to work. After rebuilding my '81 R22 (replacing the cabin sole, interior structural members as well as the cockpit floor due to oil canning and delamination), I swore that I would NEVER do that much work on an old boat again ... until I purchased my '91 Rhodes. The '91 had significant storm damage after being demasted and partially submerged in salt water for some time. She had rolled to port and was held under by the dock lines. Yes, I sold the '81 and started all over again on the new to me '91. She sails beautifully and was worth the restoration effort. The Rhodes 22 is virtually indestructible (with proper restoration) and we are totally bonkers. The moral of the story is to buy a Rhodes 22 in relatively good condition and GO SAILING ... life is too short to repeat such mistakes. Mike s/v Wind Lass ('91) Nissequogue River, NY -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of Graham Stewart Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2019 11:37 AM To: 'James Nichols' ; 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck James: Sounds like a good strategy that will have a number of advantages to my approach. With adequate core material properly bonded to the deck skin there should be no need for the liner. In fact, I found that with my boat the core and liner was not bonded anywhere making the liner of little structural use anyway. The hard part is finding a way to work in such a confined area. I had to do that to join and fair the liner at the seam and that was a pain even though it was where I had the most room. Because I had removed the main bulkhead I was able to place a strip of plywood to bridge the space between the V-birth and a chair in the main cabin and then use that as a bed to lay on. But that would not help you get into the bow. Just getting into the bow area to replace deck hardware nuts and to fiberglass the hull-deck joint was difficult. Turning the boat over would make it easier to work with but would not give you more headroom. Actually I did that for another boat restoration I did so flipping the boat is quite feasible. I built a big crate for the boat that held it steady while I then turned the boat using come along winches and foam blocks to cushion the fall once the boat passed the balance point. I have pictures if you are interested. I wonder if it wouldn't be more feasible to remove (and later replace) the flotation in the bow of the boat? You might then use some plywood for a platform to work from. Even a few inches would make a big difference. I think this would be the approach I would take if I were to lose my mind and do it again. Good luck. Let us know how it works out. Graham Stewart Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 Kingston Ontario ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2019 13:12:53 -0500 From: "Graham Stewart" To: "'The Rhodes 22 Email List'" Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck Message-ID: <00d601d5aa05$499fde70$dcdf9b50$@ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Mike: Your advice is totally rational but, unfortunately, for some of us a rational approach to boat restoration just gets ignored. Hence, we do it - repeatedly. My advice is that you should not undertake a rebuild just because you want a better boat. If that is your motivation you probably will not finish. It takes forever and probably cost far more than simply buying a boat in better condition. There are only two good reasons to undertake a major restoration: 1. you actually enjoy the process regardless of how long, expensive and/or painful it is, or 2, you believe that boats feel pain and are unhappy in their current condition. If both conditions apply, you have no choice. We are more to be pitied than scorned. Graham -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of mweisner at ebsmed.com Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2019 12:28 PM To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck Graham & James, I agree on removing the floatation foam in the bow. At least you would have room to work. After rebuilding my '81 R22 (replacing the cabin sole, interior structural members as well as the cockpit floor due to oil canning and delamination), I swore that I would NEVER do that much work on an old boat again ... until I purchased my '91 Rhodes. The '91 had significant storm damage after being demasted and partially submerged in salt water for some time. She had rolled to port and was held under by the dock lines. Yes, I sold the '81 and started all over again on the new to me '91. She sails beautifully and was worth the restoration effort. The Rhodes 22 is virtually indestructible (with proper restoration) and we are totally bonkers. The moral of the story is to buy a Rhodes 22 in relatively good condition and GO SAILING ... life is too short to repeat such mistakes. Mike s/v Wind Lass ('91) Nissequogue River, NY -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of Graham Stewart Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2019 11:37 AM To: 'James Nichols' ; 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck James: Sounds like a good strategy that will have a number of advantages to my approach. With adequate core material properly bonded to the deck skin there should be no need for the liner. In fact, I found that with my boat the core and liner was not bonded anywhere making the liner of little structural use anyway. The hard part is finding a way to work in such a confined area. I had to do that to join and fair the liner at the seam and that was a pain even though it was where I had the most room. Because I had removed the main bulkhead I was able to place a strip of plywood to bridge the space between the V-birth and a chair in the main cabin and then use that as a bed to lay on. But that would not help you get into the bow. Just getting into the bow area to replace deck hardware nuts and to fiberglass the hull-deck joint was difficult. Turning the boat over would make it easier to work with but would not give you more headroom. Actually I did that for another boat restoration I did so flipping the boat is quite feasible. I built a big crate for the boat that held it steady while I then turned the boat using come along winches and foam blocks to cushion the fall once the boat passed the balance point. I have pictures if you are interested. I wonder if it wouldn't be more feasible to remove (and later replace) the flotation in the bow of the boat? You might then use some plywood for a platform to work from. Even a few inches would make a big difference. I think this would be the approach I would take if I were to lose my mind and do it again. Good luck. Let us know how it works out. Graham Stewart Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 Kingston Ontario ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2019 14:31:18 -0600 From: Chris Geankoplis To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" To all you restorers, I am in awe of all you guys. Amazing. I hadn't realized there were so many....what's the word.......inspired sailors out there. Chris Geankoplis Member: S.P.C.R..................Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Rhodes A.V.RA.................. Anti-Vivisection of Rhodes Association On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 12:12 PM Graham Stewart wrote: > Mike: > > Your advice is totally rational but, unfortunately, for some of us a > rational approach to boat restoration just gets ignored. Hence, we do it - > repeatedly. > > My advice is that you should not undertake a rebuild just because you want > a better boat. If that is your motivation you probably will not finish. It > takes forever and probably cost far more than simply buying a boat in > better condition. > > There are only two good reasons to undertake a major restoration: > 1. you actually enjoy the process regardless of how long, expensive and/or > painful it is, or > 2, you believe that boats feel pain and are unhappy in their current > condition. > > If both conditions apply, you have no choice. We are more to be pitied > than scorned. > > Graham > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf > Of mweisner at ebsmed.com > Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2019 12:28 PM > To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck > > Graham & James, > > I agree on removing the floatation foam in the bow. At least you would > have room to work. > > After rebuilding my '81 R22 (replacing the cabin sole, interior structural > members as well as the cockpit floor due to oil canning and delamination), > I swore that I would NEVER do that much work on an old boat again ... until > I purchased my '91 Rhodes. The '91 had significant storm damage after > being demasted and partially submerged in salt water for some time. She > had rolled to port and was held under by the dock lines. Yes, I sold the > '81 and started all over again on the new to me '91. She sails beautifully > and was worth the restoration effort. > > The Rhodes 22 is virtually indestructible (with proper restoration) and we > are totally bonkers. The moral of the story is to buy a Rhodes 22 in > relatively good condition and GO SAILING ... life is too short to repeat > such mistakes. > > Mike > s/v Wind Lass ('91) > Nissequogue River, NY > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of > Graham Stewart > Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2019 11:37 AM > To: 'James Nichols' ; 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' < > rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck > > James: > > Sounds like a good strategy that will have a number of advantages to my > approach. With adequate core material properly bonded to the deck skin > there should be no need for the liner. In fact, I found that with my boat > the core and liner was not bonded anywhere making the liner of little > structural use anyway. > > The hard part is finding a way to work in such a confined area. I had to > do that to join and fair the liner at the seam and that was a pain even > though it was where I had the most room. Because I had removed the main > bulkhead I was able to place a strip of plywood to bridge the space between > the V-birth and a chair in the main cabin and then use that as a bed to lay > on. But that would not help you get into the bow. Just getting into the bow > area to replace deck hardware nuts and to fiberglass the hull-deck joint > was difficult. > > Turning the boat over would make it easier to work with but would not give > you more headroom. Actually I did that for another boat restoration I did > so flipping the boat is quite feasible. I built a big crate for the boat > that held it steady while I then turned the boat using come along winches > and foam blocks to cushion the fall once the boat passed the balance point. > I have pictures if you are interested. > > I wonder if it wouldn't be more feasible to remove (and later replace) the > flotation in the bow of the boat? You might then use some plywood for a > platform to work from. Even a few inches would make a big difference. I > think this would be the approach I would take if I were to lose my mind and > do it again. > > Good luck. Let us know how it works out. > > > Graham Stewart > Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 > Kingston Ontario > > > > ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2019 18:52:49 -0700 (MST) From: Jesse Shumaker To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck Message-ID: <1575424369617-0.post at n5.nabble.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Restorers, thanks for sharing all the hard won experience on the topic of overhauling the foredeck. Very impressive work on formidable projects! I echo Chris's sentiments. Count me in as another member of of the S.P.C.R. and A.V.R.A. -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2019 01:53:46 +0000 (UTC) From: Art Czerwonky To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck Message-ID: <1022235561.5587557.1575424426935 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 The rebuild skills of this group of skippers bodes well for the future of our fleet when GB may eventually not have the capability.? The business model has thrived well under Stan's excellent leadership and business acumen. Think about it, just building one fixture, the boom room and covers has been totally satisfying for me, especially having such satisfaction of client skippers. Best,Art Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 8:37 PM, Jesse Shumaker wrote: Restorers, thanks for sharing all the hard won experience on the topic of overhauling the foredeck.? Very impressive work on formidable projects! I echo Chris's sentiments.? Count me in as another member of of the S.P.C.R. and A.V.R.A. -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2019 11:40:00 -0500 From: Todd Tavares To: a_czerwonky at yahoo.com, The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" MJM gave me sound advice early on. I'm paraphrasing here (I saved the email but hsve time to look for it) He said.... If you consider the time, money and aggravation involved with rebuilding and restoring an older boat; especially a Rhodes 22 with all of its one-of-a-kind and one-off parts, your time and money would be better spent buying a new boat or at least, one that needs less work. I have taken two Rhodes 22s to the dump. I have videos saved somewhere of the guys on the big earth movers racing to see who could crush them first. tavares0947 at gmail.com On Tue, Dec 3, 2019, 8:53 PM Art Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list < rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote: > The rebuild skills of this group of skippers bodes well for the future of > our fleet when GB may eventually not have the capability. The business > model has thrived well under Stan's excellent leadership and business > acumen. Think about it, just building one fixture, the boom room and covers > has been totally satisfying for me, especially having such satisfaction of > client skippers. > Best,Art > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > > On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 8:37 PM, Jesse Shumaker< > jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com> wrote: Restorers, thanks for sharing > all the hard won experience on the topic of > overhauling the foredeck. Very impressive work on formidable projects! > > I echo Chris's sentiments. Count me in as another member of of the > S.P.C.R. > and A.V.R.A. > > > > -- > Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ > > ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2019 16:40:19 +0000 From: "Lowe, Rob" To: Art Czerwonky , The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Cabin Liner Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Speaking of removing liners, has anyone attempted/figured out how to remove the liner in in the cabin? I'm trying to run some wiring from my electrical panel to the mast area and would prefer not to cut into the liner. Thanks - rob -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of Art Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2019 8:54 PM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck The rebuild skills of this group of skippers bodes well for the future of our fleet when GB may eventually not have the capability.? The business model has thrived well under Stan's excellent leadership and business acumen. Think about it, just building one fixture, the boom room and covers has been totally satisfying for me, especially having such satisfaction of client skippers. Best,Art Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 8:37 PM, Jesse Shumaker wrote: Restorers, thanks for sharing all the hard won experience on the topic of overhauling the foredeck.? Very impressive work on formidable projects! I echo Chris's sentiments.? Count me in as another member of of the S.P.C.R. and A.V.R.A. -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Rhodes22-list mailing list Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org http://rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list ------------------------------ End of Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 4159, Issue 1 ********************************************** From peter at sunnybeeches.com Wed Dec 4 21:21:01 2019 From: peter at sunnybeeches.com (Peter Nyberg) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2019 21:21:01 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard In-Reply-To: <886FFEBF-7FD2-4E66-ABF8-F68D18D21BFD@gmail.com> References: <886FFEBF-7FD2-4E66-ABF8-F68D18D21BFD@gmail.com> Message-ID: Mitch, During the time my boat was being recycled by General Boats, I purchased an outboard online, and had it shipped to Edenton so Stan?s crew could rig up the tiller-motor connection. The model I chose was an 8 HP Mercury 4 stroke, with a weight of around 90 pounds as I recall. When I eventually arrived in Edenton to take possession, the outboard was mounted on the stern, in the proprietary General Boats outboard mounting gizmo. The GB crew told me that I should leave the motor mounted, but also to tie a line from the motor to the aft pulpit as a safety measure. They suggested that I arrange things so that the railing was taking about half the weight of the outboard. So, unless you have some reason to suspect that the structural integrity of the stern motor mount has been comprised in some way, I?d say that?s where it should stay. With the addition of the safety line, of course. If you do decide to put the outboard in the cockpit of the cabin, I?d use lots and lots of padding. Peter Nyberg Coventry, CT s/v Silverheels (1988/2016) > On Dec 4, 2019, at 8:55 PM, Mitch Mitchell wrote: > > I?m planning on taking a long road trip with my R22 and wondering if those of you who tow do so with an outboard attached to the stern. I have an 8hp 2 stroke Merc and a 30 year old mount (image attached). This is my first trip with this boat and am picturing myself on I 95 with the motor dragging along behind me. I will be towing with a truck camper so nowhere to put motor if not on stern. Any suggestions or views would be appreciated, > > Mitch > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: image1.jpeg > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 31824 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: From snstaum at gmail.com Wed Dec 4 21:24:12 2019 From: snstaum at gmail.com (Stephen Staum) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2019 21:24:12 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard In-Reply-To: <886FFEBF-7FD2-4E66-ABF8-F68D18D21BFD@gmail.com> References: <886FFEBF-7FD2-4E66-ABF8-F68D18D21BFD@gmail.com> Message-ID: I have always towed with the motor in place on ?87 & ?83 Rhodes (currently a 9.9 hp 2 stroke Johnson Sailmaster). I only go 20 miles @ way. Taking the weight off the stern & moving it forward does help with tongue weight & handling. I once tucked the outboard on the cabin floor when I needed more tongue weight to prevent swaying. Stephen Staum s/v Carol Lee 2 Needham, MA On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 8:55 PM Mitch Mitchell wrote: > I?m planning on taking a long road trip with my R22 and wondering if those > of you who tow do so with an outboard attached to the stern. I have an 8hp > 2 stroke Merc and a 30 year old mount (image attached). This is my first > trip with this boat and am picturing myself on I 95 with the motor dragging > along behind me. I will be towing with a truck camper so nowhere to put > motor if not on stern. Any suggestions or views would be appreciated, > > Mitch > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: image1.jpeg > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 31824 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: < > http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20191204/7228515d/attachment.jpeg > > > -- Stephen Staum Pariser Industries, Inc. From a_czerwonky at yahoo.com Wed Dec 4 21:49:57 2019 From: a_czerwonky at yahoo.com (Art Czerwonky) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 02:49:57 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard In-Reply-To: <886FFEBF-7FD2-4E66-ABF8-F68D18D21BFD@gmail.com> References: <886FFEBF-7FD2-4E66-ABF8-F68D18D21BFD@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2020270047.5962574.1575514197703@mail.yahoo.com> Mitch, What year Rhodes. I originally had a '76, and even with a backplate was uneasy on the road.Art Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 8:55 PM, Mitch Mitchell wrote: I?m planning on taking a long road trip with my R22 and wondering if those of you who tow do so with an outboard attached to the stern. I have an 8hp 2 stroke Merc and a 30 year old mount (image attached). This is my first trip with this boat and am picturing myself on I 95 with the motor dragging along behind me. I will be towing with a truck camper so nowhere to put motor if not on stern. Any suggestions or views would be appreciated, Mitch -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 31824 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gstewart8 at cogeco.ca Wed Dec 4 22:17:09 2019 From: gstewart8 at cogeco.ca (Graham Stewart) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2019 22:17:09 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard In-Reply-To: <2020270047.5962574.1575514197703@mail.yahoo.com> References: <886FFEBF-7FD2-4E66-ABF8-F68D18D21BFD@gmail.com> <2020270047.5962574.1575514197703@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005901d5ab1a$7da89fc0$78f9df40$@ca> I have done very little towing but the one time I did I was almost dragged off the road due to trailer sway. Very scary! I discovered that there was insufficient weight on the tongue but also that it was very difficult to move the boat any further forward. If I were to go on a longer trip I would measure the weight under the tongue once the boat was packed and if less than 10% of the total either move weight forward in the cabin or remove the motor from the stern. Graham Stewart Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 Kingston Ontario -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Art Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 9:50 PM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard Mitch, What year Rhodes. I originally had a '76, and even with a backplate was uneasy on the road.Art Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 8:55 PM, Mitch Mitchell wrote: I?m planning on taking a long road trip with my R22 and wondering if those of you who tow do so with an outboard attached to the stern. I have an 8hp 2 stroke Merc and a 30 year old mount (image attached). This is my first trip with this boat and am picturing myself on I 95 with the motor dragging along behind me. I will be towing with a truck camper so nowhere to put motor if not on stern. Any suggestions or views would be appreciated, Mitch -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 31824 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rlowe at vt.edu Thu Dec 5 10:07:11 2019 From: rlowe at vt.edu (Lowe, Rob) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 15:07:11 +0000 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard In-Reply-To: <005901d5ab1a$7da89fc0$78f9df40$@ca> References: <886FFEBF-7FD2-4E66-ABF8-F68D18D21BFD@gmail.com> <2020270047.5962574.1575514197703@mail.yahoo.com> <005901d5ab1a$7da89fc0$78f9df40$@ca> Message-ID: Mitch, Some good advice. I'm in the leave the motor mounted as long as it's supported and you don't need the weight forward crowd. I do run a strap from the two aft lifts eyes under the cavitation plate to help hold the motor up. Tying to the stern rail would also suffice. As long as you have sufficient tongue weight and don't need to remove it, I'd leave it. - rob -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of Graham Stewart Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 10:17 PM To: 'Art Czerwonky' ; 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard I have done very little towing but the one time I did I was almost dragged off the road due to trailer sway. Very scary! I discovered that there was insufficient weight on the tongue but also that it was very difficult to move the boat any further forward. If I were to go on a longer trip I would measure the weight under the tongue once the boat was packed and if less than 10% of the total either move weight forward in the cabin or remove the motor from the stern. Graham Stewart Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 Kingston Ontario -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Art Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 9:50 PM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard Mitch, What year Rhodes. I originally had a '76, and even with a backplate was uneasy on the road.Art Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 8:55 PM, Mitch Mitchell wrote: I?m planning on taking a long road trip with my R22 and wondering if those of you who tow do so with an outboard attached to the stern. I have an 8hp 2 stroke Merc and a 30 year old mount (image attached). This is my first trip with this boat and am picturing myself on I 95 with the motor dragging along behind me. I will be towing with a truck camper so nowhere to put motor if not on stern. Any suggestions or views would be appreciated, Mitch -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 31824 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mtroy at atlanticbb.net Thu Dec 5 10:17:09 2019 From: mtroy at atlanticbb.net (Mary Lou Troy) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 10:17:09 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard In-Reply-To: References: <886FFEBF-7FD2-4E66-ABF8-F68D18D21BFD@gmail.com> <2020270047.5962574.1575514197703@mail.yahoo.com> <005901d5ab1a$7da89fc0$78f9df40$@ca> Message-ID: <6e034caf-58f6-3398-eff6-69e3001bbea1@atlanticbb.net> Agree with everything said so far. The issue of tongue weight was raised. It is so important to get the boat far enough forward on the trailer so you have proper tongue weight. With our single axle trailer the boat always wanted to be about 6-8" aft of where it was supposed to be. We managed to find ways to get it as far forward as we wanted it but it wasn't always easy and it did take knowing the ramp and (in our case) the tide. If there are questions it probably ought to be a new thread but I believe there are many suggestions in the archives. Mary Lou ex-R22 now Rosborough RF-246? Tara On 12/5/2019 10:07 AM, Lowe, Rob wrote: > Mitch, > Some good advice. I'm in the leave the motor mounted as long as it's supported and you don't need the weight forward crowd. I do run a strap from the two aft lifts eyes under the cavitation plate to help hold the motor up. Tying to the stern rail would also suffice. As long as you have sufficient tongue weight and don't need to remove it, I'd leave it. - rob > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of Graham Stewart > Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 10:17 PM > To: 'Art Czerwonky' ; 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard > > I have done very little towing but the one time I did I was almost dragged off the road due to trailer sway. Very scary! I discovered that there was insufficient weight on the tongue but also that it was very difficult to move the boat any further forward. If I were to go on a longer trip I would measure the weight under the tongue once the boat was packed and if less than 10% of the total either move weight forward in the cabin or remove the motor from the stern. > > > Graham Stewart > Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 > Kingston Ontario > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Art Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list > Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 9:50 PM > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard > > Mitch, What year Rhodes. I originally had a '76, and even with a backplate was uneasy on the road.Art > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > > On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 8:55 PM, Mitch Mitchell wrote: I?m planning on taking a long road trip with my R22 and wondering if those of you who tow do so with an outboard attached to the stern. I have an 8hp 2 stroke Merc and a 30 year old mount (image attached). This is my first trip with this boat and am picturing myself on I 95 with the motor dragging along behind me. I will be towing with a truck camper so nowhere to put motor if not on stern. Any suggestions or views would be appreciated, > > Mitch > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: image1.jpeg > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 31824 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: > > From sloopblueheron at gmail.com Thu Dec 5 10:59:53 2019 From: sloopblueheron at gmail.com (Rick Lange) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 10:59:53 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck In-Reply-To: References: <003201d5a8a7$da7e9030$8f7bb090$@ca> <003601d5a8c4$e23be490$a6b3adb0$@ca> <1575298706725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <00b701d5a9e6$2dade140$8909a3c0$@ca> <185718492.1623572.1575387870653@mail.yahoo.com> <00c601d5a9f7$ef036110$cd0a2330$@ca> <002101d5a9fe$f57f84e0$e07e8ea0$@ebsmed.com> <00d601d5aa05$499fde70$dcdf9b50$@ca> <1575424369617-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <1022235561.5587557.1575424426935@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: For some, the greatest pleasure of a trip is the journey. For others, the greatest pleasure is reaching the destination. For the journey types, the process of rehabilitating an old boat can be its own reward. Regards, Rick Lange On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 11:40 AM Todd Tavares wrote: > MJM gave me sound advice early on. I'm paraphrasing here (I saved the email > but hsve time to look for it) > He said.... If you consider the time, money and aggravation involved with > rebuilding and restoring an older boat; especially a Rhodes 22 with all of > its one-of-a-kind and one-off parts, your time and money would be better > spent buying a new boat or at least, one that needs less work. > > I have taken two Rhodes 22s to the dump. I have videos saved somewhere of > the guys on the big earth movers racing to see who could crush them first. > > > tavares0947 at gmail.com > > On Tue, Dec 3, 2019, 8:53 PM Art Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list < > rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote: > > > The rebuild skills of this group of skippers bodes well for the future of > > our fleet when GB may eventually not have the capability. The business > > model has thrived well under Stan's excellent leadership and business > > acumen. Think about it, just building one fixture, the boom room and > covers > > has been totally satisfying for me, especially having such satisfaction > of > > client skippers. > > Best,Art > > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > > > > On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 8:37 PM, Jesse Shumaker< > > jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com> wrote: Restorers, thanks for sharing > > all the hard won experience on the topic of > > overhauling the foredeck. Very impressive work on formidable projects! > > > > I echo Chris's sentiments. Count me in as another member of of the > > S.P.C.R. > > and A.V.R.A. > > > > > > > > -- > > Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ > > > > > From mitchpadl at gmail.com Thu Dec 5 13:05:00 2019 From: mitchpadl at gmail.com (Mitch Mitchell) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:05:00 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard In-Reply-To: <005901d5ab1a$7da89fc0$78f9df40$@ca> References: <886FFEBF-7FD2-4E66-ABF8-F68D18D21BFD@gmail.com> <2020270047.5962574.1575514197703@mail.yahoo.com> <005901d5ab1a$7da89fc0$78f9df40$@ca> Message-ID: Yikes! On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 10:17 PM Graham Stewart wrote: > I have done very little towing but the one time I did I was almost dragged > off the road due to trailer sway. Very scary! I discovered that there was > insufficient weight on the tongue but also that it was very difficult to > move the boat any further forward. If I were to go on a longer trip I would > measure the weight under the tongue once the boat was packed and if less > than 10% of the total either move weight forward in the cabin or remove the > motor from the stern. > > > Graham Stewart > Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 > Kingston Ontario > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf > Of Art Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list > Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 9:50 PM > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard > > Mitch, What year Rhodes. I originally had a '76, and even with a backplate > was uneasy on the road.Art > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > > On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 8:55 PM, Mitch Mitchell > wrote: I?m planning on taking a long road trip with my R22 and wondering > if those of you who tow do so with an outboard attached to the stern. I > have an 8hp 2 stroke Merc and a 30 year old mount (image attached). This is > my first trip with this boat and am picturing myself on I 95 with the motor > dragging along behind me. I will be towing with a truck camper so nowhere > to put motor if not on stern. Any suggestions or views would be appreciated, > > Mitch > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: image1.jpeg > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 31824 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: < > http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20191204/7228515d/attachment.jpeg > > > > > From mitchpadl at gmail.com Thu Dec 5 13:16:52 2019 From: mitchpadl at gmail.com (Mitch Mitchell) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:16:52 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard In-Reply-To: References: <886FFEBF-7FD2-4E66-ABF8-F68D18D21BFD@gmail.com> <2020270047.5962574.1575514197703@mail.yahoo.com> <005901d5ab1a$7da89fc0$78f9df40$@ca> Message-ID: Thanks for all of the replies. I've driven the trailer on the highway and sway has not been a problem but I've always taken the motor and rudder off and put them in the truck. I'll definitely tie the motor to the railing and I like the idea of also running a strap from the two eyes to under the motor. I will try both. If anyone finds an 8hp Merc on I-95 please let me know. Thanks! MM BTW I've only launched the boat a few times since I haven't had it long and the last time I was bound and determined to get her all the way up on the trailer but to no avail. It seems to have something to do with the ramp angle. I'll check the archives to see if I can learn some tricks for that. On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 1:05 PM Mitch Mitchell wrote: > Yikes! > > On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 10:17 PM Graham Stewart > wrote: > >> I have done very little towing but the one time I did I was almost >> dragged off the road due to trailer sway. Very scary! I discovered that >> there was insufficient weight on the tongue but also that it was very >> difficult to move the boat any further forward. If I were to go on a longer >> trip I would measure the weight under the tongue once the boat was packed >> and if less than 10% of the total either move weight forward in the cabin >> or remove the motor from the stern. >> >> >> Graham Stewart >> Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 >> Kingston Ontario >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On >> Behalf Of Art Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list >> Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 9:50 PM >> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard >> >> Mitch, What year Rhodes. I originally had a '76, and even with a >> backplate was uneasy on the road.Art >> >> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android >> >> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 8:55 PM, Mitch Mitchell >> wrote: I?m planning on taking a long road trip with my R22 and wondering >> if those of you who tow do so with an outboard attached to the stern. I >> have an 8hp 2 stroke Merc and a 30 year old mount (image attached). This is >> my first trip with this boat and am picturing myself on I 95 with the motor >> dragging along behind me. I will be towing with a truck camper so nowhere >> to put motor if not on stern. Any suggestions or views would be appreciated, >> >> Mitch >> -------------- next part -------------- >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >> Name: image1.jpeg >> Type: image/jpeg >> Size: 31824 bytes >> Desc: not available >> URL: < >> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20191204/7228515d/attachment.jpeg >> > >> >> >> From mark at whipplefamily.com Thu Dec 5 13:55:56 2019 From: mark at whipplefamily.com (Mark Whipple) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:55:56 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck In-Reply-To: References: <003201d5a8a7$da7e9030$8f7bb090$@ca> <003601d5a8c4$e23be490$a6b3adb0$@ca> <1575298706725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <00b701d5a9e6$2dade140$8909a3c0$@ca> <185718492.1623572.1575387870653@mail.yahoo.com> <00c601d5a9f7$ef036110$cd0a2330$@ca> <002101d5a9fe$f57f84e0$e07e8ea0$@ebsmed.com> <00d601d5aa05$499fde70$dcdf9b50$@ca> <1575424369617-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <1022235561.5587557.1575424426935@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I've completely renovated a 28' Person Triton and done substantial work on numerous other boats. I think in most cases it's true that it's cheaper to buy someone else's renovations than to do them yourself, even if you don't consider the value of your time. The same is usually true of a house: if you redo your kitchen, it will probably increase the value of your house by not as much as you spent on your kitchen. An individual boat owner usually doesn't do renovations to make a profit, you do them because they provide some sort of value to you. Hey, if you look at it from a strictly economic perspective, owning a boat is never going to provide a monetary return on your investment. General Boats is in a very different position than an individual boat owner. GB has much more experience and some economies of scale, so it make more sense for Stan to renovate boats for resale. It would not surprise me if the profit margins were modest in any case. GB creates their own market for their unique product whereas an individual boat owner is just one of many selling a used boat. Many folks would rather have a business that will stand behind their product than a random individual. All boats need work. My dentist recently bought a new 42' sailboat and had a long list of items that need fixing. The calculation for me comes down to this: am I willing to do the work that the boat needs to bring it up to the condition you feel it should be in? When I asked myself this question regarding my 30' Nimble yawl, the answer was "no" so I put her up for sale and bought an R22 that I was willing to maintain. That calculation is different for everyone. Mark Whipple Boston, MA 2000 R22 1986 Nimble 30 yawl (for sale) 1987 Hutchins Compac 16 On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 10:59 AM Rick Lange wrote: > For some, the greatest pleasure of a trip is the journey. For others, the > greatest pleasure is reaching the destination. For the journey types, the > process of rehabilitating an old boat can be its own reward. > > Regards, > > Rick Lange > > > On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 11:40 AM Todd Tavares > wrote: > > > MJM gave me sound advice early on. I'm paraphrasing here (I saved the > email > > but hsve time to look for it) > > He said.... If you consider the time, money and aggravation involved with > > rebuilding and restoring an older boat; especially a Rhodes 22 with all > of > > its one-of-a-kind and one-off parts, your time and money would be better > > spent buying a new boat or at least, one that needs less work. > > > > I have taken two Rhodes 22s to the dump. I have videos saved somewhere of > > the guys on the big earth movers racing to see who could crush them > first. > > > > > > tavares0947 at gmail.com > > > > On Tue, Dec 3, 2019, 8:53 PM Art Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list < > > rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote: > > > > > The rebuild skills of this group of skippers bodes well for the future > of > > > our fleet when GB may eventually not have the capability. The business > > > model has thrived well under Stan's excellent leadership and business > > > acumen. Think about it, just building one fixture, the boom room and > > covers > > > has been totally satisfying for me, especially having such satisfaction > > of > > > client skippers. > > > Best,Art > > > > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 8:37 PM, Jesse Shumaker< > > > jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com> wrote: Restorers, thanks for sharing > > > all the hard won experience on the topic of > > > overhauling the foredeck. Very impressive work on formidable projects! > > > > > > I echo Chris's sentiments. Count me in as another member of of the > > > S.P.C.R. > > > and A.V.R.A. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ > > > > > > > > > From spreadgoodnews at gmail.com Thu Dec 5 22:12:39 2019 From: spreadgoodnews at gmail.com (Goodness) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 22:12:39 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <984109AC-B09A-4A93-92BD-7C1FA9BBBF68@gmail.com> Mitch: I never trail an outboard long distance without a ?motor toter? or better yet removing it from the transom. Repairs to the transom are costly and time consuming. Motors are expensive. The bouncing adds tremendous aging to your motormount. A nice solution i have for my trailer is a welded on motormount between the hitch and winch. It wont work for every trailer but the cockpit holds a 9.8 long shaft perfectly. I have a nice collection of roadside sailing gear. (Mainsail and boom for a common 18 foot boat in perfect condition, a rudder and tiller, a brand new diesel 5 gallon fuel can, a collapsible canvas bucket, a brand new 3 gallon gasoline can.). Arrive alive and preferably with all of your boat and equipment! Good luck! Bob (palatka) > On Dec 5, 2019, at 1:17 PM, Mitch Mitchell wrote: > > ?Thanks for all of the replies. I've driven the trailer on the highway and > sway has not been a problem but I've always taken the motor and rudder off > and put them in the truck. I'll definitely tie the motor to the railing and > I like the idea of also running a strap from the two eyes to under the > motor. I will try both. If anyone finds an 8hp Merc on I-95 please let me > know. Thanks! MM > BTW I've only launched the boat a few times since I haven't had it long and > the last time I was bound and determined to get her all the way up on the > trailer but to no avail. It seems to have something to do with the ramp > angle. I'll check the archives to see if I can learn some tricks for that. > >> On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 1:05 PM Mitch Mitchell wrote: >> >> Yikes! >> >> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 10:17 PM Graham Stewart >> wrote: >> >>> I have done very little towing but the one time I did I was almost >>> dragged off the road due to trailer sway. Very scary! I discovered that >>> there was insufficient weight on the tongue but also that it was very >>> difficult to move the boat any further forward. If I were to go on a longer >>> trip I would measure the weight under the tongue once the boat was packed >>> and if less than 10% of the total either move weight forward in the cabin >>> or remove the motor from the stern. >>> >>> >>> Graham Stewart >>> Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 >>> Kingston Ontario >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On >>> Behalf Of Art Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 9:50 PM >>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List >>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard >>> >>> Mitch, What year Rhodes. I originally had a '76, and even with a >>> backplate was uneasy on the road.Art >>> >>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android >>> >>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 8:55 PM, Mitch Mitchell >>> wrote: I?m planning on taking a long road trip with my R22 and wondering >>> if those of you who tow do so with an outboard attached to the stern. I >>> have an 8hp 2 stroke Merc and a 30 year old mount (image attached). This is >>> my first trip with this boat and am picturing myself on I 95 with the motor >>> dragging along behind me. I will be towing with a truck camper so nowhere >>> to put motor if not on stern. Any suggestions or views would be appreciated, >>> >>> Mitch >>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >>> Name: image1.jpeg >>> Type: image/jpeg >>> Size: 31824 bytes >>> Desc: not available >>> URL: < >>> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20191204/7228515d/attachment.jpeg >>>> >>> >>> >>> From gstewart8 at cogeco.ca Thu Dec 5 23:39:23 2019 From: gstewart8 at cogeco.ca (Graham Stewart) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 23:39:23 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck In-Reply-To: References: <003201d5a8a7$da7e9030$8f7bb090$@ca> <003601d5a8c4$e23be490$a6b3adb0$@ca> <1575298706725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <00b701d5a9e6$2dade140$8909a3c0$@ca> <185718492.1623572.1575387870653@mail.yahoo.com> <00c601d5a9f7$ef036110$cd0a2330$@ca> <002101d5a9fe$f57f84e0$e07e8ea0$@ebsmed.com> <00d601d5aa05$499fde70$dcdf9b50$@ca> <1575424369617-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <1022235561.5587557.1575424426935@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <008a01d5abef$2394b7a0$6abe26e0$@ca> Rick: Well said. For me restoring the boat was something I actually enjoyed. If I saw it as a chore I would have quit many years ago. In fact, my Rhodes was the second boat that I did an extensive restoration of. The first was a 19' 1960 mahogany lapstrake boat which required that I replace everything below the waterline (including steam bent oak ribs) and transom. That took me 10 years of summer free time with at least one year when I did nothing due to illness. Then, last year I reworked the deck using strips of mahogany. That took most of the year preparing the material during the winter and installing the deck in the summer. None of that activity reflected a sound financial calculation but it looks awesome. For me the work is like a hobby rather than a task and what hoppy reflects a justified rationale for the use of money or time? I don't follow sports and could not imagine spending hours every weekend watching games on my TV and, in the end, having absolutely nothing to show for it. But for those who do enjoy watching sports the time is well spent. I do it because it interests me, is a creative outlet, and provides something to be proud of. So I have spent the last 20 plus years of my free time working on two old boats - neither of which has much value even now but are sound, beautiful and will last another 40+ years. Given that I am in my mid 70s 40 years will probably suffice. I love the challenge of doing something that I think is way beyond my competence. Everything I have done I approached as a total novice often not having a clue at the beginning how to actually accomplish what I needed to do. If this was just about time and money no one would ever undertake a restoration twice. You can't be that na?ve twice. It seems to me that anyone I have had contact who had built a boat or done major restoration has done it on multiple occasions. Messing around in boats is often its own reward - if you are inclined that way. Graham Stewart Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 Kingston Ontario -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Rick Lange Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 11:00 AM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck For some, the greatest pleasure of a trip is the journey. For others, the greatest pleasure is reaching the destination. For the journey types, the process of rehabilitating an old boat can be its own reward. Regards, Rick Lange On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 11:40 AM Todd Tavares wrote: > MJM gave me sound advice early on. I'm paraphrasing here (I saved the email > but hsve time to look for it) > He said.... If you consider the time, money and aggravation involved with > rebuilding and restoring an older boat; especially a Rhodes 22 with all of > its one-of-a-kind and one-off parts, your time and money would be better > spent buying a new boat or at least, one that needs less work. > > I have taken two Rhodes 22s to the dump. I have videos saved somewhere of > the guys on the big earth movers racing to see who could crush them first. > > > tavares0947 at gmail.com > > On Tue, Dec 3, 2019, 8:53 PM Art Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list < > rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote: > > > The rebuild skills of this group of skippers bodes well for the future of > > our fleet when GB may eventually not have the capability. The business > > model has thrived well under Stan's excellent leadership and business > > acumen. Think about it, just building one fixture, the boom room and > covers > > has been totally satisfying for me, especially having such satisfaction > of > > client skippers. > > Best,Art > > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > > > > On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 8:37 PM, Jesse Shumaker< > > jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com> wrote: Restorers, thanks for sharing > > all the hard won experience on the topic of > > overhauling the foredeck. Very impressive work on formidable projects! > > > > I echo Chris's sentiments. Count me in as another member of of the > > S.P.C.R. > > and A.V.R.A. > > > > > > > > -- > > Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: First sail - finally - August 10, 2017 (1).jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 523386 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: New deck finished 2018.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 132757 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mitchpadl at gmail.com Fri Dec 6 08:44:14 2019 From: mitchpadl at gmail.com (Mitch Mitchell) Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 08:44:14 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard In-Reply-To: <984109AC-B09A-4A93-92BD-7C1FA9BBBF68@gmail.com> References: <984109AC-B09A-4A93-92BD-7C1FA9BBBF68@gmail.com> Message-ID: <33E30A16-B610-4033-A5FE-686B632F0174@gmail.com> That?s a great idea Bob! Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 5, 2019, at 10:12 PM, Goodness wrote: > > Mitch: I never trail an outboard long distance without a ?motor toter? or better yet removing it from the transom. Repairs to the transom are costly and time consuming. Motors are expensive. The bouncing adds tremendous aging to your motormount. > A nice solution i have for my trailer is a welded on motormount between the hitch and winch. It wont work for every trailer but the cockpit holds a 9.8 long shaft perfectly. > I have a nice collection of roadside sailing gear. (Mainsail and boom for a common 18 foot boat in perfect condition, a rudder and tiller, a brand new diesel 5 gallon fuel can, a collapsible canvas bucket, a brand new 3 gallon gasoline can.). Arrive alive and preferably with all of your boat and equipment! > Good luck! > > Bob (palatka) > >> On Dec 5, 2019, at 1:17 PM, Mitch Mitchell wrote: >> >> ?Thanks for all of the replies. I've driven the trailer on the highway and >> sway has not been a problem but I've always taken the motor and rudder off >> and put them in the truck. I'll definitely tie the motor to the railing and >> I like the idea of also running a strap from the two eyes to under the >> motor. I will try both. If anyone finds an 8hp Merc on I-95 please let me >> know. Thanks! MM >> BTW I've only launched the boat a few times since I haven't had it long and >> the last time I was bound and determined to get her all the way up on the >> trailer but to no avail. It seems to have something to do with the ramp >> angle. I'll check the archives to see if I can learn some tricks for that. >> >>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 1:05 PM Mitch Mitchell wrote: >>> >>> Yikes! >>> >>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 10:17 PM Graham Stewart >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I have done very little towing but the one time I did I was almost >>>> dragged off the road due to trailer sway. Very scary! I discovered that >>>> there was insufficient weight on the tongue but also that it was very >>>> difficult to move the boat any further forward. If I were to go on a longer >>>> trip I would measure the weight under the tongue once the boat was packed >>>> and if less than 10% of the total either move weight forward in the cabin >>>> or remove the motor from the stern. >>>> >>>> >>>> Graham Stewart >>>> Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 >>>> Kingston Ontario >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On >>>> Behalf Of Art Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list >>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 9:50 PM >>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard >>>> >>>> Mitch, What year Rhodes. I originally had a '76, and even with a >>>> backplate was uneasy on the road.Art >>>> >>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android >>>> >>>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 8:55 PM, Mitch Mitchell >>>> wrote: I?m planning on taking a long road trip with my R22 and wondering >>>> if those of you who tow do so with an outboard attached to the stern. I >>>> have an 8hp 2 stroke Merc and a 30 year old mount (image attached). This is >>>> my first trip with this boat and am picturing myself on I 95 with the motor >>>> dragging along behind me. I will be towing with a truck camper so nowhere >>>> to put motor if not on stern. Any suggestions or views would be appreciated, >>>> >>>> Mitch >>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >>>> Name: image1.jpeg >>>> Type: image/jpeg >>>> Size: 31824 bytes >>>> Desc: not available >>>> URL: < >>>> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20191204/7228515d/attachment.jpeg >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From a_czerwonky at yahoo.com Fri Dec 6 09:13:20 2019 From: a_czerwonky at yahoo.com (Art Czerwonky) Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 14:13:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck In-Reply-To: <008a01d5abef$2394b7a0$6abe26e0$@ca> References: <003201d5a8a7$da7e9030$8f7bb090$@ca> <003601d5a8c4$e23be490$a6b3adb0$@ca> <1575298706725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <00b701d5a9e6$2dade140$8909a3c0$@ca> <185718492.1623572.1575387870653@mail.yahoo.com> <00c601d5a9f7$ef036110$cd0a2330$@ca> <002101d5a9fe$f57f84e0$e07e8ea0$@ebsmed.com> <00d601d5aa05$499fde70$dcdf9b50$@ca> <1575424369617-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <1022235561.5587557.1575424426935@mail.yahoo.com> <008a01d5abef$2394b7a0$6abe26e0$@ca> Message-ID: <198453652.2652499.1575641600765@mail.yahoo.com> Graham, We are on the same page, my friend.? Is the R22 Rummy's boat. We can all recall when he had his bill redone in yellow. Art Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 11:39 PM, Graham Stewart wrote: Rick: Well said. For me restoring the boat was something I actually enjoyed. If I saw it as a chore I would have quit many years ago.? In fact, my Rhodes was the second boat that I did an extensive restoration of. The first was a 19' 1960 mahogany lapstrake boat which? required that I replace everything below the waterline (including steam bent oak ribs) and? transom. That took me 10 years of summer free time with at least one year when I did nothing due to illness. Then, last year I reworked the deck using strips of mahogany. That took most of the year preparing the material during the winter and installing the deck in the summer. None of that activity reflected a sound financial calculation but it looks awesome. For me the work is like a hobby rather than a task and what hoppy reflects a justified rationale for the use of money or time? I don't follow sports and could not imagine spending hours every weekend watching games on my TV and, in the end, having absolutely nothing to show for it. But for those who do enjoy watching sports the time is well spent. I do it because it interests me, is a creative outlet, and provides something to be proud of. So I have spent the last 20 plus years of my free time working on two old boats - neither of which has much value even now but are sound, beautiful and will last another 40+ years. Given that I am in my mid 70s 40 years will probably suffice. I love the challenge of doing something that I think is way beyond my competence. Everything I have done I approached as a total novice often not having a clue at the beginning how to actually accomplish what I needed to do. If this was just about time and money no one would ever undertake a restoration twice. You can't be that na?ve twice. It seems to me that anyone I have had contact who had built a boat or done major restoration has done it on multiple occasions. Messing around in boats is often its own reward - if you are inclined that way. Graham Stewart Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 Kingston Ontario -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Rick Lange Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 11:00 AM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck For some, the greatest pleasure of a trip is the journey.? For others, the greatest pleasure is reaching the destination.? For the journey types, the process of rehabilitating an old boat can be its own reward. Regards, Rick Lange On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 11:40 AM Todd Tavares wrote: > MJM gave me sound advice early on. I'm paraphrasing here (I saved the email > but hsve time to look for it) > He said.... If you consider the time, money and aggravation involved with > rebuilding and restoring an older boat; especially a Rhodes 22 with all of > its one-of-a-kind and one-off parts, your time and money would be better > spent buying a new boat or at least, one that needs less work. > > I have taken two Rhodes 22s to the dump. I have videos saved somewhere of > the guys on the big earth movers racing to see who could crush them first. > > > tavares0947 at gmail.com > > On Tue, Dec 3, 2019, 8:53 PM Art Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list < > rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote: > > > The rebuild skills of this group of skippers bodes well for the future of > > our fleet when GB may eventually not have the capability.? The business > > model has thrived well under Stan's excellent leadership and business > > acumen. Think about it, just building one fixture, the boom room and > covers > > has been totally satisfying for me, especially having such satisfaction > of > > client skippers. > > Best,Art > > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > > > >? On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 8:37 PM, Jesse Shumaker< > > jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com> wrote:? Restorers, thanks for sharing > > all the hard won experience on the topic of > > overhauling the foredeck.? Very impressive work on formidable projects! > > > > I echo Chris's sentiments.? Count me in as another member of of the > > S.P.C.R. > > and A.V.R.A. > > > > > > > > -- > > Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: First sail - finally - August 10, 2017 (1).jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 523386 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: New deck finished 2018.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 132757 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tavares0947 at gmail.com Fri Dec 6 09:45:39 2019 From: tavares0947 at gmail.com (Todd Tavares) Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 09:45:39 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck In-Reply-To: <008a01d5abef$2394b7a0$6abe26e0$@ca> References: <003201d5a8a7$da7e9030$8f7bb090$@ca> <003601d5a8c4$e23be490$a6b3adb0$@ca> <1575298706725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <00b701d5a9e6$2dade140$8909a3c0$@ca> <185718492.1623572.1575387870653@mail.yahoo.com> <00c601d5a9f7$ef036110$cd0a2330$@ca> <002101d5a9fe$f57f84e0$e07e8ea0$@ebsmed.com> <00d601d5aa05$499fde70$dcdf9b50$@ca> <1575424369617-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <1022235561.5587557.1575424426935@mail.yahoo.com> <008a01d5abef$2394b7a0$6abe26e0$@ca> Message-ID: I'm wondering if Mark wants to sell the rehabbed Triton... :) tavares0947 at gmail.com On Thu, Dec 5, 2019, 11:39 PM Graham Stewart wrote: > Rick: > > Well said. > > For me restoring the boat was something I actually enjoyed. If I saw it as > a chore I would have quit many years ago. In fact, my Rhodes was the > second boat that I did an extensive restoration of. The first was a 19' > 1960 mahogany lapstrake boat which required that I replace everything > below the waterline (including steam bent oak ribs) and transom. That took > me 10 years of summer free time with at least one year when I did nothing > due to illness. Then, last year I reworked the deck using strips of > mahogany. That took most of the year preparing the material during the > winter and installing the deck in the summer. None of that activity > reflected a sound financial calculation but it looks awesome. > > For me the work is like a hobby rather than a task and what hoppy reflects > a justified rationale for the use of money or time? I don't follow sports > and could not imagine spending hours every weekend watching games on my TV > and, in the end, having absolutely nothing to show for it. But for those > who do enjoy watching sports the time is well spent. > > I do it because it interests me, is a creative outlet, and provides > something to be proud of. So I have spent the last 20 plus years of my free > time working on two old boats - neither of which has much value even now > but are sound, beautiful and will last another 40+ years. Given that I am > in my mid 70s 40 years will probably suffice. I love the challenge of doing > something that I think is way beyond my competence. Everything I have done > I approached as a total novice often not having a clue at the beginning how > to actually accomplish what I needed to do. > > If this was just about time and money no one would ever undertake a > restoration twice. You can't be that na?ve twice. It seems to me that > anyone I have had contact who had built a boat or done major restoration > has done it on multiple occasions. > > Messing around in boats is often its own reward - if you are inclined that > way. > > > Graham Stewart > Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 > Kingston Ontario > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf > Of Rick Lange > Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 11:00 AM > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck > > For some, the greatest pleasure of a trip is the journey. For others, the > greatest pleasure is reaching the destination. For the journey types, the > process of rehabilitating an old boat can be its own reward. > > Regards, > > Rick Lange > > > On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 11:40 AM Todd Tavares > wrote: > > > MJM gave me sound advice early on. I'm paraphrasing here (I saved the > email > > but hsve time to look for it) > > He said.... If you consider the time, money and aggravation involved with > > rebuilding and restoring an older boat; especially a Rhodes 22 with all > of > > its one-of-a-kind and one-off parts, your time and money would be better > > spent buying a new boat or at least, one that needs less work. > > > > I have taken two Rhodes 22s to the dump. I have videos saved somewhere of > > the guys on the big earth movers racing to see who could crush them > first. > > > > > > tavares0947 at gmail.com > > > > On Tue, Dec 3, 2019, 8:53 PM Art Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list < > > rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote: > > > > > The rebuild skills of this group of skippers bodes well for the future > of > > > our fleet when GB may eventually not have the capability. The business > > > model has thrived well under Stan's excellent leadership and business > > > acumen. Think about it, just building one fixture, the boom room and > > covers > > > has been totally satisfying for me, especially having such satisfaction > > of > > > client skippers. > > > Best,Art > > > > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 8:37 PM, Jesse Shumaker< > > > jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com> wrote: Restorers, thanks for sharing > > > all the hard won experience on the topic of > > > overhauling the foredeck. Very impressive work on formidable projects! > > > > > > I echo Chris's sentiments. Count me in as another member of of the > > > S.P.C.R. > > > and A.V.R.A. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ > > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: First sail - finally - August 10, 2017 (1).jpg > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 523386 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: < > http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20191205/67d8edea/attachment.jpg > > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: New deck finished 2018.jpg > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 132757 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: < > http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20191205/67d8edea/attachment-0001.jpg > > > From mark at whipplefamily.com Fri Dec 6 09:55:09 2019 From: mark at whipplefamily.com (Mark Whipple) Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 09:55:09 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck In-Reply-To: References: <003201d5a8a7$da7e9030$8f7bb090$@ca> <003601d5a8c4$e23be490$a6b3adb0$@ca> <1575298706725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <00b701d5a9e6$2dade140$8909a3c0$@ca> <185718492.1623572.1575387870653@mail.yahoo.com> <00c601d5a9f7$ef036110$cd0a2330$@ca> <002101d5a9fe$f57f84e0$e07e8ea0$@ebsmed.com> <00d601d5aa05$499fde70$dcdf9b50$@ca> <1575424369617-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <1022235561.5587557.1575424426935@mail.yahoo.com> <008a01d5abef$2394b7a0$6abe26e0$@ca> Message-ID: Sorry, Todd, I sold the Triton several years ago. But you can see some pictures of the renovation here: https://tikvah59.wordpress.com/ Also, I have a Nimble 30 yawl for sale! New engine, new roller furler, like-new sails. Mark On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 9:45 AM Todd Tavares wrote: > I'm wondering if Mark wants to sell the rehabbed Triton... :) > > > tavares0947 at gmail.com > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2019, 11:39 PM Graham Stewart wrote: > > > Rick: > > > > Well said. > > > > For me restoring the boat was something I actually enjoyed. If I saw it > as > > a chore I would have quit many years ago. In fact, my Rhodes was the > > second boat that I did an extensive restoration of. The first was a 19' > > 1960 mahogany lapstrake boat which required that I replace everything > > below the waterline (including steam bent oak ribs) and transom. That > took > > me 10 years of summer free time with at least one year when I did nothing > > due to illness. Then, last year I reworked the deck using strips of > > mahogany. That took most of the year preparing the material during the > > winter and installing the deck in the summer. None of that activity > > reflected a sound financial calculation but it looks awesome. > > > > For me the work is like a hobby rather than a task and what hoppy > reflects > > a justified rationale for the use of money or time? I don't follow sports > > and could not imagine spending hours every weekend watching games on my > TV > > and, in the end, having absolutely nothing to show for it. But for those > > who do enjoy watching sports the time is well spent. > > > > I do it because it interests me, is a creative outlet, and provides > > something to be proud of. So I have spent the last 20 plus years of my > free > > time working on two old boats - neither of which has much value even now > > but are sound, beautiful and will last another 40+ years. Given that I am > > in my mid 70s 40 years will probably suffice. I love the challenge of > doing > > something that I think is way beyond my competence. Everything I have > done > > I approached as a total novice often not having a clue at the beginning > how > > to actually accomplish what I needed to do. > > > > If this was just about time and money no one would ever undertake a > > restoration twice. You can't be that na?ve twice. It seems to me that > > anyone I have had contact who had built a boat or done major restoration > > has done it on multiple occasions. > > > > Messing around in boats is often its own reward - if you are inclined > that > > way. > > > > > > Graham Stewart > > Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 > > Kingston Ontario > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On > Behalf > > Of Rick Lange > > Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 11:00 AM > > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck > > > > For some, the greatest pleasure of a trip is the journey. For others, > the > > greatest pleasure is reaching the destination. For the journey types, > the > > process of rehabilitating an old boat can be its own reward. > > > > Regards, > > > > Rick Lange > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 11:40 AM Todd Tavares > > wrote: > > > > > MJM gave me sound advice early on. I'm paraphrasing here (I saved the > > email > > > but hsve time to look for it) > > > He said.... If you consider the time, money and aggravation involved > with > > > rebuilding and restoring an older boat; especially a Rhodes 22 with all > > of > > > its one-of-a-kind and one-off parts, your time and money would be > better > > > spent buying a new boat or at least, one that needs less work. > > > > > > I have taken two Rhodes 22s to the dump. I have videos saved somewhere > of > > > the guys on the big earth movers racing to see who could crush them > > first. > > > > > > > > > tavares0947 at gmail.com > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 3, 2019, 8:53 PM Art Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list < > > > rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote: > > > > > > > The rebuild skills of this group of skippers bodes well for the > future > > of > > > > our fleet when GB may eventually not have the capability. The > business > > > > model has thrived well under Stan's excellent leadership and business > > > > acumen. Think about it, just building one fixture, the boom room and > > > covers > > > > has been totally satisfying for me, especially having such > satisfaction > > > of > > > > client skippers. > > > > Best,Art > > > > > > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > > > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 8:37 PM, Jesse Shumaker< > > > > jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com> wrote: Restorers, thanks for > sharing > > > > all the hard won experience on the topic of > > > > overhauling the foredeck. Very impressive work on formidable > projects! > > > > > > > > I echo Chris's sentiments. Count me in as another member of of the > > > > S.P.C.R. > > > > and A.V.R.A. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > > Name: First sail - finally - August 10, 2017 (1).jpg > > Type: image/jpeg > > Size: 523386 bytes > > Desc: not available > > URL: < > > > http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20191205/67d8edea/attachment.jpg > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > > Name: New deck finished 2018.jpg > > Type: image/jpeg > > Size: 132757 bytes > > Desc: not available > > URL: < > > > http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20191205/67d8edea/attachment-0001.jpg > > > > > > From mark at whipplefamily.com Fri Dec 6 09:57:40 2019 From: mark at whipplefamily.com (Mark Whipple) Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 09:57:40 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck In-Reply-To: References: <003201d5a8a7$da7e9030$8f7bb090$@ca> <003601d5a8c4$e23be490$a6b3adb0$@ca> <1575298706725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <00b701d5a9e6$2dade140$8909a3c0$@ca> <185718492.1623572.1575387870653@mail.yahoo.com> <00c601d5a9f7$ef036110$cd0a2330$@ca> <002101d5a9fe$f57f84e0$e07e8ea0$@ebsmed.com> <00d601d5aa05$499fde70$dcdf9b50$@ca> <1575424369617-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <1022235561.5587557.1575424426935@mail.yahoo.com> <008a01d5abef$2394b7a0$6abe26e0$@ca> Message-ID: Clearly I haven't looked at that site for a while. Lots of broken image links. At least the text is still there! On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 9:55 AM Mark Whipple wrote: > Sorry, Todd, I sold the Triton several years ago. But you can see some > pictures of the renovation here: https://tikvah59.wordpress.com/ > > Also, I have a Nimble 30 yawl for sale! New engine, new roller furler, > like-new sails. > > Mark > > On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 9:45 AM Todd Tavares wrote: > >> I'm wondering if Mark wants to sell the rehabbed Triton... :) >> >> >> tavares0947 at gmail.com >> >> On Thu, Dec 5, 2019, 11:39 PM Graham Stewart wrote: >> >> > Rick: >> > >> > Well said. >> > >> > For me restoring the boat was something I actually enjoyed. If I saw it >> as >> > a chore I would have quit many years ago. In fact, my Rhodes was the >> > second boat that I did an extensive restoration of. The first was a 19' >> > 1960 mahogany lapstrake boat which required that I replace everything >> > below the waterline (including steam bent oak ribs) and transom. That >> took >> > me 10 years of summer free time with at least one year when I did >> nothing >> > due to illness. Then, last year I reworked the deck using strips of >> > mahogany. That took most of the year preparing the material during the >> > winter and installing the deck in the summer. None of that activity >> > reflected a sound financial calculation but it looks awesome. >> > >> > For me the work is like a hobby rather than a task and what hoppy >> reflects >> > a justified rationale for the use of money or time? I don't follow >> sports >> > and could not imagine spending hours every weekend watching games on my >> TV >> > and, in the end, having absolutely nothing to show for it. But for those >> > who do enjoy watching sports the time is well spent. >> > >> > I do it because it interests me, is a creative outlet, and provides >> > something to be proud of. So I have spent the last 20 plus years of my >> free >> > time working on two old boats - neither of which has much value even now >> > but are sound, beautiful and will last another 40+ years. Given that I >> am >> > in my mid 70s 40 years will probably suffice. I love the challenge of >> doing >> > something that I think is way beyond my competence. Everything I have >> done >> > I approached as a total novice often not having a clue at the beginning >> how >> > to actually accomplish what I needed to do. >> > >> > If this was just about time and money no one would ever undertake a >> > restoration twice. You can't be that na?ve twice. It seems to me that >> > anyone I have had contact who had built a boat or done major restoration >> > has done it on multiple occasions. >> > >> > Messing around in boats is often its own reward - if you are inclined >> that >> > way. >> > >> > >> > Graham Stewart >> > Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 >> > Kingston Ontario >> > >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On >> Behalf >> > Of Rick Lange >> > Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 11:00 AM >> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List >> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck >> > >> > For some, the greatest pleasure of a trip is the journey. For others, >> the >> > greatest pleasure is reaching the destination. For the journey types, >> the >> > process of rehabilitating an old boat can be its own reward. >> > >> > Regards, >> > >> > Rick Lange >> > >> > >> > On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 11:40 AM Todd Tavares >> > wrote: >> > >> > > MJM gave me sound advice early on. I'm paraphrasing here (I saved the >> > email >> > > but hsve time to look for it) >> > > He said.... If you consider the time, money and aggravation involved >> with >> > > rebuilding and restoring an older boat; especially a Rhodes 22 with >> all >> > of >> > > its one-of-a-kind and one-off parts, your time and money would be >> better >> > > spent buying a new boat or at least, one that needs less work. >> > > >> > > I have taken two Rhodes 22s to the dump. I have videos saved >> somewhere of >> > > the guys on the big earth movers racing to see who could crush them >> > first. >> > > >> > > >> > > tavares0947 at gmail.com >> > > >> > > On Tue, Dec 3, 2019, 8:53 PM Art Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list < >> > > rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote: >> > > >> > > > The rebuild skills of this group of skippers bodes well for the >> future >> > of >> > > > our fleet when GB may eventually not have the capability. The >> business >> > > > model has thrived well under Stan's excellent leadership and >> business >> > > > acumen. Think about it, just building one fixture, the boom room and >> > > covers >> > > > has been totally satisfying for me, especially having such >> satisfaction >> > > of >> > > > client skippers. >> > > > Best,Art >> > > > >> > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android >> > > > >> > > > On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 8:37 PM, Jesse Shumaker< >> > > > jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com> wrote: Restorers, thanks for >> sharing >> > > > all the hard won experience on the topic of >> > > > overhauling the foredeck. Very impressive work on formidable >> projects! >> > > > >> > > > I echo Chris's sentiments. Count me in as another member of of the >> > > > S.P.C.R. >> > > > and A.V.R.A. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > -- >> > > > Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > -------------- next part -------------- >> > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >> > Name: First sail - finally - August 10, 2017 (1).jpg >> > Type: image/jpeg >> > Size: 523386 bytes >> > Desc: not available >> > URL: < >> > >> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20191205/67d8edea/attachment.jpg >> > > >> > -------------- next part -------------- >> > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >> > Name: New deck finished 2018.jpg >> > Type: image/jpeg >> > Size: 132757 bytes >> > Desc: not available >> > URL: < >> > >> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20191205/67d8edea/attachment-0001.jpg >> > > >> > >> > From keywestseccorp at verizon.net Thu Dec 5 11:58:21 2019 From: keywestseccorp at verizon.net (Mark West) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 16:58:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck In-Reply-To: <1539066736.6131452.1575564586761@mail.yahoo.com> References: <003201d5a8a7$da7e9030$8f7bb090$@ca> <003601d5a8c4$e23be490$a6b3adb0$@ca> <1575298706725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <00b701d5a9e6$2dade140$8909a3c0$@ca> <185718492.1623572.1575387870653@mail.yahoo.com> <00c601d5a9f7$ef036110$cd0a2330$@ca> <002101d5a9fe$f57f84e0$e07e8ea0$@ebsmed.com> <00d601d5aa05$499fde70$dcdf9b50$@ca> <1575424369617-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <1022235561.5587557.1575424426935@mail.yahoo.com> <1539066736.6131452.1575564586761@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1230947975.6150958.1575565101985@mail.yahoo.com> Well put Rick, I think if someone walks out into their garage and? find cars and a few neatly arranged yard tools the DYI might not be advisable .IF the garage is full tools in piles you have to step around and wife's car is out side it can be done especially with advice? from the R22 list and Stan GB You have help me I thank you? Happy Holidays to all? Mark? -----Original Message----- From: Rick Lange To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Sent: Thu, Dec 5, 2019 11:00 am Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck For some, the greatest pleasure of a trip is the journey.? For others, the greatest pleasure is reaching the destination.? For the journey types, the process of rehabilitating an old boat can be its own reward. Regards, Rick Lange On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 11:40 AM Todd Tavares wrote: > MJM gave me sound advice early on. I'm paraphrasing here (I saved the email > but hsve time to look for it) > He said.... If you consider the time, money and aggravation involved with > rebuilding and restoring an older boat; especially a Rhodes 22 with all of > its one-of-a-kind and one-off parts, your time and money would be better > spent buying a new boat or at least, one that needs less work. > > I have taken two Rhodes 22s to the dump. I have videos saved somewhere of > the guys on the big earth movers racing to see who could crush them first. > > > tavares0947 at gmail.com > > On Tue, Dec 3, 2019, 8:53 PM Art Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list < > rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote: > > > The rebuild skills of this group of skippers bodes well for the future of > > our fleet when GB may eventually not have the capability.? The business > > model has thrived well under Stan's excellent leadership and business > > acumen. Think about it, just building one fixture, the boom room and > covers > > has been totally satisfying for me, especially having such satisfaction > of > > client skippers. > > Best,Art > > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > > > >? On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 8:37 PM, Jesse Shumaker< > > jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com> wrote:? Restorers, thanks for sharing > > all the hard won experience on the topic of > > overhauling the foredeck.? Very impressive work on formidable projects! > > > > I echo Chris's sentiments.? Count me in as another member of of the > > S.P.C.R. > > and A.V.R.A. > > > > > > > > -- > > Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_1237 (2).JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 2640581 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_2542.JPEG Type: image/jpeg Size: 2447032 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_1308.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 1886416 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gstewart8 at cogeco.ca Thu Dec 5 13:19:01 2019 From: gstewart8 at cogeco.ca (Graham Stewart) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:19:01 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck In-Reply-To: References: <003201d5a8a7$da7e9030$8f7bb090$@ca> <003601d5a8c4$e23be490$a6b3adb0$@ca> <1575298706725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <00b701d5a9e6$2dade140$8909a3c0$@ca> <185718492.1623572.1575387870653@mail.yahoo.com> <00c601d5a9f7$ef036110$cd0a2330$@ca> <002101d5a9fe$f57f84e0$e07e8ea0$@ebsmed.com> <00d601d5aa05$499fde70$dcdf9b50$@ca> <1575424369617-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <1022235561.5587557.1575424426935@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005301d5ab98$7b511df0$71f359d0$@ca> Rick: Well said. For me restoring the boat was something I actually enjoyed. If I saw it as a chore I would have quit many years ago. In fact, my Rhodes was the second boat that I did an extensive restoration of. The first was a 19' 1960 mahogany lapstrake boat which required that I replace everything below the waterline (including steam bent oak ribs) and transom. That took me 10 years of summer free time with at least one year when I did nothing due to illness. Then, last year I reworked the deck using strips of mahogany. That took most of the year preparing the material during the winter and installing the deck in the summer. None of that activity reflected a sound financial calculation but it looks awesome. For me the work is like a hobby rather than a task and what hoppy reflects a justified rationale for the use of money or time? I don't follow sports and could not imagine spending hours every weekend watching games on my TV and, in the end, having absolutely nothing to show for it. But for those who do enjoy watching sports the time is well spent. I do it because it interests me, is a creative outlet, and provides something to be proud of. So I have spent the last 20 plus years of my free time working on two old boats - neither of which has much value even now but are sound, beautiful and will last another 40+ years. Given that I am in my mid 70s 40 years will probably suffice. I love the challenge of doing something that I think is way beyond my competence. Everything I have done I approached as a total novice often not having a clue at the beginning how to actually accomplish what I needed to do. If this was just about time and money no one would ever undertake a restoration twice. You can't be that na?ve twice. It seems to me that anyone I have had contact who had built a boat or done major restoration has done it on multiple occasions. Messing around in boats is often its own reward - if you are inclined that way. Graham Stewart Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 Kingston Ontario -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Rick Lange Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 11:00 AM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck For some, the greatest pleasure of a trip is the journey. For others, the greatest pleasure is reaching the destination. For the journey types, the process of rehabilitating an old boat can be its own reward. Regards, Rick Lange On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 11:40 AM Todd Tavares wrote: > MJM gave me sound advice early on. I'm paraphrasing here (I saved the email > but hsve time to look for it) > He said.... If you consider the time, money and aggravation involved with > rebuilding and restoring an older boat; especially a Rhodes 22 with all of > its one-of-a-kind and one-off parts, your time and money would be better > spent buying a new boat or at least, one that needs less work. > > I have taken two Rhodes 22s to the dump. I have videos saved somewhere of > the guys on the big earth movers racing to see who could crush them first. > > > tavares0947 at gmail.com > > On Tue, Dec 3, 2019, 8:53 PM Art Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list < > rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote: > > > The rebuild skills of this group of skippers bodes well for the future of > > our fleet when GB may eventually not have the capability. The business > > model has thrived well under Stan's excellent leadership and business > > acumen. Think about it, just building one fixture, the boom room and > covers > > has been totally satisfying for me, especially having such satisfaction > of > > client skippers. > > Best,Art > > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > > > > On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 8:37 PM, Jesse Shumaker< > > jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com> wrote: Restorers, thanks for sharing > > all the hard won experience on the topic of > > overhauling the foredeck. Very impressive work on formidable projects! > > > > I echo Chris's sentiments. Count me in as another member of of the > > S.P.C.R. > > and A.V.R.A. > > > > > > > > -- > > Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: First sail - finally - August 10, 2017 (1).jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 523386 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Photo 2019-12-05, 12 25 39 PM.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 5997029 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gstewart8 at cogeco.ca Thu Dec 5 13:21:05 2019 From: gstewart8 at cogeco.ca (Graham Stewart) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:21:05 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck In-Reply-To: References: <003201d5a8a7$da7e9030$8f7bb090$@ca> <003601d5a8c4$e23be490$a6b3adb0$@ca> <1575298706725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <00b701d5a9e6$2dade140$8909a3c0$@ca> <185718492.1623572.1575387870653@mail.yahoo.com> <00c601d5a9f7$ef036110$cd0a2330$@ca> <002101d5a9fe$f57f84e0$e07e8ea0$@ebsmed.com> <00d601d5aa05$499fde70$dcdf9b50$@ca> <1575424369617-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <1022235561.5587557.1575424426935@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005701d5ab98$c44c96b0$4ce5c410$@ca> Rick: Well said. For me restoring the boat was something I actually enjoyed. If I saw it as a chore I would have quit many years ago. In fact, my Rhodes was the second boat that I did an extensive restoration of. The first was a 19' 1960 mahogany lapstrake boat which required that I replace everything below the waterline (including steam bent oak ribs) and transom. That took me 10 years of summer free time with at least one year when I did nothing due to illness. Then, last year I reworked the deck using strips of mahogany. That took most of the year preparing the material during the winter and installing the deck in the summer. None of that activity reflected a sound financial calculation but it looks awesome. For me the work is like a hobby rather than a task and what hoppy reflects a justified rationale for the use of money or time? I don't follow sports and could not imagine spending hours every weekend watching games on my TV and, in the end, having absolutely nothing to show for it. But for those who do enjoy watching sports the time is well spent. I do it because it interests me, is a creative outlet, and provides something to be proud of. So I have spent the last 20 plus years of my free time working on two old boats - neither of which has much value even now but are sound, beautiful and will last another 40+ years. Given that I am in my mid 70s 40 years will probably suffice. I love the challenge of doing something that I think is way beyond my competence. Everything I have done I approached as a total novice often not having a clue at the beginning how to actually accomplish what I needed to do. If this was just about time and money no one would ever undertake a restoration twice. You can't be that na?ve twice. It seems to me that anyone I have had contact who had built a boat or done major restoration has done it on multiple occasions. Messing around in boats is often its own reward - if you are inclined that way. Graham Stewart Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 Kingston Ontario -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Rick Lange Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 11:00 AM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck For some, the greatest pleasure of a trip is the journey. For others, the greatest pleasure is reaching the destination. For the journey types, the process of rehabilitating an old boat can be its own reward. Regards, Rick Lange On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 11:40 AM Todd Tavares wrote: > MJM gave me sound advice early on. I'm paraphrasing here (I saved the email > but hsve time to look for it) > He said.... If you consider the time, money and aggravation involved with > rebuilding and restoring an older boat; especially a Rhodes 22 with all of > its one-of-a-kind and one-off parts, your time and money would be better > spent buying a new boat or at least, one that needs less work. > > I have taken two Rhodes 22s to the dump. I have videos saved somewhere of > the guys on the big earth movers racing to see who could crush them first. > > > tavares0947 at gmail.com > > On Tue, Dec 3, 2019, 8:53 PM Art Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list < > rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote: > > > The rebuild skills of this group of skippers bodes well for the future of > > our fleet when GB may eventually not have the capability. The business > > model has thrived well under Stan's excellent leadership and business > > acumen. Think about it, just building one fixture, the boom room and > covers > > has been totally satisfying for me, especially having such satisfaction > of > > client skippers. > > Best,Art > > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > > > > On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 8:37 PM, Jesse Shumaker< > > jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com> wrote: Restorers, thanks for sharing > > all the hard won experience on the topic of > > overhauling the foredeck. Very impressive work on formidable projects! > > > > I echo Chris's sentiments. Count me in as another member of of the > > S.P.C.R. > > and A.V.R.A. > > > > > > > > -- > > Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: First sail - finally - August 10, 2017 (1).jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 523386 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Photo 2019-12-05, 12 25 39 PM.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 5997029 bytes Desc: not available URL: From roger_pihlaja at msn.com Fri Dec 6 11:57:51 2019 From: roger_pihlaja at msn.com (ROGER PIHLAJA) Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 16:57:51 +0000 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Restoring Older Rhodes 22 In-Reply-To: <005701d5ab98$c44c96b0$4ce5c410$@ca> References: <003201d5a8a7$da7e9030$8f7bb090$@ca> <003601d5a8c4$e23be490$a6b3adb0$@ca> <1575298706725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <00b701d5a9e6$2dade140$8909a3c0$@ca> <185718492.1623572.1575387870653@mail.yahoo.com> <00c601d5a9f7$ef036110$cd0a2330$@ca> <002101d5a9fe$f57f84e0$e07e8ea0$@ebsmed.com> <00d601d5aa05$499fde70$dcdf9b50$@ca> <1575424369617-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <1022235561.5587557.1575424426935@mail.yahoo.com> , <005701d5ab98$c44c96b0$4ce5c410$@ca> Message-ID: Hi All, As anyone who?s looked at the Rhodes 22 Photo Archive knows, I?ve done a lot of work on my 1976 Rhodes 22 in the 32 years I?ve owned the boat. Many of the modifications were to facilitate cruising & safety with my family. Some of my home built modifications were truly over the top with no economic justification whatever, like the homemade stainless steel railings and the Bimini room. For the most part, I just enjoyed tinkering with and building stuff for the boat. As I?ve grown older (I?m currently 66 years old), I find I don?t enjoy contorting myself into uncomfortable positions to reach into unreachable spaces while breathing dust and toxic fumes anymore. Although I?ve logged thousands of trailering miles, trailering the boat long distances with the associated rigging and unrigging is becoming a royal PITA. Fortunately, over the years, I?ve gradually made S/V Dynamic Equilibrium nearly maintenance free. I can rig, unrig, launch, and retrieve singlehanded, although it takes quite a while to do it ? seemingly longer each year! These days, I just launch it into my home Sanford Lake and enjoy sailing it with my wife each summer without too much muss or fuss. The Rhodes 22 is certainly Great Lakes capable; but, my wife doesn?t enjoy blue water sailing on the Great Lakes (she?s scared of the waves & to be out of sight of land). My 2 sons have long since moved away from home (Gary is 33 years & Daniel is 36 years old) and my 3 grandchildren are still too young for small boat cruising. So, I tend to get my blue water sailing fix by sailing on other people?s boats. Roger Pihlaja S/V Dynamic Equilibrium Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Graham Stewart Sent: Friday, December 6, 2019 10:16 AM To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck Rick: Well said. For me restoring the boat was something I actually enjoyed. If I saw it as a chore I would have quit many years ago. In fact, my Rhodes was the second boat that I did an extensive restoration of. The first was a 19' 1960 mahogany lapstrake boat which required that I replace everything below the waterline (including steam bent oak ribs) and transom. That took me 10 years of summer free time with at least one year when I did nothing due to illness. Then, last year I reworked the deck using strips of mahogany. That took most of the year preparing the material during the winter and installing the deck in the summer. None of that activity reflected a sound financial calculation but it looks awesome. For me the work is like a hobby rather than a task and what hoppy reflects a justified rationale for the use of money or time? I don't follow sports and could not imagine spending hours every weekend watching games on my TV and, in the end, having absolutely nothing to show for it. But for those who do enjoy watching sports the time is well spent. I do it because it interests me, is a creative outlet, and provides something to be proud of. So I have spent the last 20 plus years of my free time working on two old boats - neither of which has much value even now but are sound, beautiful and will last another 40+ years. Given that I am in my mid 70s 40 years will probably suffice. I love the challenge of doing something that I think is way beyond my competence. Everything I have done I approached as a total novice often not having a clue at the beginning how to actually accomplish what I needed to do. If this was just about time and money no one would ever undertake a restoration twice. You can't be that na?ve twice. It seems to me that anyone I have had contact who had built a boat or done major restoration has done it on multiple occasions. Messing around in boats is often its own reward - if you are inclined that way. Graham Stewart Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 Kingston Ontario -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Rick Lange Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 11:00 AM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck For some, the greatest pleasure of a trip is the journey. For others, the greatest pleasure is reaching the destination. For the journey types, the process of rehabilitating an old boat can be its own reward. Regards, Rick Lange On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 11:40 AM Todd Tavares wrote: > MJM gave me sound advice early on. I'm paraphrasing here (I saved the email > but hsve time to look for it) > He said.... If you consider the time, money and aggravation involved with > rebuilding and restoring an older boat; especially a Rhodes 22 with all of > its one-of-a-kind and one-off parts, your time and money would be better > spent buying a new boat or at least, one that needs less work. > > I have taken two Rhodes 22s to the dump. I have videos saved somewhere of > the guys on the big earth movers racing to see who could crush them first. > > > tavares0947 at gmail.com > > On Tue, Dec 3, 2019, 8:53 PM Art Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list < > rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote: > > > The rebuild skills of this group of skippers bodes well for the future of > > our fleet when GB may eventually not have the capability. The business > > model has thrived well under Stan's excellent leadership and business > > acumen. Think about it, just building one fixture, the boom room and > covers > > has been totally satisfying for me, especially having such satisfaction > of > > client skippers. > > Best,Art > > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > > > > On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 8:37 PM, Jesse Shumaker< > > jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com> wrote: Restorers, thanks for sharing > > all the hard won experience on the topic of > > overhauling the foredeck. Very impressive work on formidable projects! > > > > I echo Chris's sentiments. Count me in as another member of of the > > S.P.C.R. > > and A.V.R.A. > > > > > > > > -- > > Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: First sail - finally - August 10, 2017 (1).jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 523386 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Photo 2019-12-05, 12 25 39 PM.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 5997029 bytes Desc: not available URL: From roger_pihlaja at msn.com Fri Dec 6 12:42:41 2019 From: roger_pihlaja at msn.com (ROGER PIHLAJA) Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 17:42:41 +0000 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard In-Reply-To: <33E30A16-B610-4033-A5FE-686B632F0174@gmail.com> References: <984109AC-B09A-4A93-92BD-7C1FA9BBBF68@gmail.com>, <33E30A16-B610-4033-A5FE-686B632F0174@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi All, S/V Dynamic Equilibrium?s trailer has had an anti sway damper mounted on the trailer hitch for 25+ years. The below attached picture shows this anti sway damper available from Harbor Freight. The device mounts between the tow bar hitch on the tow vehicle and the trailer tongue. The black body has friction material (i.e. brake pads) that clamps down on the silver part on the right. Clamping pressure is adjusted by turning the black handle on the top of the black body. The silver part is attached via a small extra ball joint on the tow bar alongside of the main hitch ball on the trailer hitch. The black body is attached to the trailer tongue via another ball joint alongside of the hitch. As the trailer sways, the silver part slides in and out of the black body. The clamped friction material turns the rotational momentum of the trailer into heat, thus damping out the swaying. This is absolutely the solution to worry free trailering! It completely eliminates trailer swaying due to crosswinds, semi truck shock waves, sudden turns, road hazards, tire failure, etc. It even helps prevent swaying if there is insufficient tongue weight, although it is still good practice to have at least 10% of the trailer weight on the tongue. It turns trailering into a relaxing experience. [cid:image003.png at 01D5AC32.A4FCC970] The only downside, is that you must remember to remove the anti sway damper before close quarters maneuvering in the boat yard or at the launch ramp. The anti sway device does not tolerate being jack knifed if the trailer must be turned very sharply. Normally, this is not an issue; but, you need to be aware of the anti sway device before attempting a sharp turn. I was able to move S/V Dynamic Equilibrium sufficiently far forward on my trailer such that the rudder and outboard motor can be left in place while trailering. Raising the motor to the top of the mount and lashing it in place prevents movement. There?s enough ?stuff? to rig and unrig while trailering without having to mess around with the motor and the rudder. Here?s a weight distribution tip: The 15 gallon water tank weighs ~125 lbs when full. This tank is up in the bow under the V-berth. So, if you are having issues with insufficient tongue weight, try filling the water tank. I don?t recommend trailering with anything in the holding tank. Although it would add more tongue weight, there is too much risk of a nasty, smelly spill due to sloshing! Roger Pihlaja S/V Dynamic Equilibrium Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Mitch Mitchell Sent: Friday, December 6, 2019 8:44 AM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard That?s a great idea Bob! Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 5, 2019, at 10:12 PM, Goodness wrote: > > Mitch: I never trail an outboard long distance without a ?motor toter? or better yet removing it from the transom. Repairs to the transom are costly and time consuming. Motors are expensive. The bouncing adds tremendous aging to your motormount. > A nice solution i have for my trailer is a welded on motormount between the hitch and winch. It wont work for every trailer but the cockpit holds a 9.8 long shaft perfectly. > I have a nice collection of roadside sailing gear. (Mainsail and boom for a common 18 foot boat in perfect condition, a rudder and tiller, a brand new diesel 5 gallon fuel can, a collapsible canvas bucket, a brand new 3 gallon gasoline can.). Arrive alive and preferably with all of your boat and equipment! > Good luck! > > Bob (palatka) > >> On Dec 5, 2019, at 1:17 PM, Mitch Mitchell wrote: >> >> ?Thanks for all of the replies. I've driven the trailer on the highway and >> sway has not been a problem but I've always taken the motor and rudder off >> and put them in the truck. I'll definitely tie the motor to the railing and >> I like the idea of also running a strap from the two eyes to under the >> motor. I will try both. If anyone finds an 8hp Merc on I-95 please let me >> know. Thanks! MM >> BTW I've only launched the boat a few times since I haven't had it long and >> the last time I was bound and determined to get her all the way up on the >> trailer but to no avail. It seems to have something to do with the ramp >> angle. I'll check the archives to see if I can learn some tricks for that. >> >>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 1:05 PM Mitch Mitchell wrote: >>> >>> Yikes! >>> >>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 10:17 PM Graham Stewart >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I have done very little towing but the one time I did I was almost >>>> dragged off the road due to trailer sway. Very scary! I discovered that >>>> there was insufficient weight on the tongue but also that it was very >>>> difficult to move the boat any further forward. If I were to go on a longer >>>> trip I would measure the weight under the tongue once the boat was packed >>>> and if less than 10% of the total either move weight forward in the cabin >>>> or remove the motor from the stern. >>>> >>>> >>>> Graham Stewart >>>> Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 >>>> Kingston Ontario >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On >>>> Behalf Of Art Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list >>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 9:50 PM >>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard >>>> >>>> Mitch, What year Rhodes. I originally had a '76, and even with a >>>> backplate was uneasy on the road.Art >>>> >>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android >>>> >>>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 8:55 PM, Mitch Mitchell >>>> wrote: I?m planning on taking a long road trip with my R22 and wondering >>>> if those of you who tow do so with an outboard attached to the stern. I >>>> have an 8hp 2 stroke Merc and a 30 year old mount (image attached). This is >>>> my first trip with this boat and am picturing myself on I 95 with the motor >>>> dragging along behind me. I will be towing with a truck camper so nowhere >>>> to put motor if not on stern. Any suggestions or views would be appreciated, >>>> >>>> Mitch >>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >>>> Name: image1.jpeg >>>> Type: image/jpeg >>>> Size: 31824 bytes >>>> Desc: not available >>>> URL: < >>>> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20191204/7228515d/attachment.jpeg >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 687DF483B1C343598D78F6F4D9ACBBB7.png Type: image/png Size: 177835 bytes Desc: 687DF483B1C343598D78F6F4D9ACBBB7.png URL: From gstewart8 at cogeco.ca Fri Dec 6 15:03:06 2019 From: gstewart8 at cogeco.ca (Graham Stewart) Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 15:03:06 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard In-Reply-To: References: <984109AC-B09A-4A93-92BD-7C1FA9BBBF68@gmail.com> <33E30A16-B610-4033-A5FE-686B632F0174@gmail.com> Message-ID: <00c801d5ac70$2fdaa2f0$8f8fe8d0$@ca> Roger: That is very helpful feedback on the anti-sway device. I always wondered about those things. I think they would be well worth the modest price. Graham -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of ROGER PIHLAJA Sent: Friday, December 6, 2019 12:43 PM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard Hi All, S/V Dynamic Equilibrium?s trailer has had an anti sway damper mounted on the trailer hitch for 25+ years. The below attached picture shows this anti sway damper available from Harbor Freight. The device mounts between the tow bar hitch on the tow vehicle and the trailer tongue. The black body has friction material (i.e. brake pads) that clamps down on the silver part on the right. Clamping pressure is adjusted by turning the black handle on the top of the black body. The silver part is attached via a small extra ball joint on the tow bar alongside of the main hitch ball on the trailer hitch. The black body is attached to the trailer tongue via another ball joint alongside of the hitch. As the trailer sways, the silver part slides in and out of the black body. The clamped friction material turns the rotational momentum of the trailer into heat, thus damping out the swaying. This is absolutely the solution to worry free trailering! It completely eliminates trailer swaying due to crosswinds, semi truck shock waves, sudden turns, road hazards, tire failure, etc. It even helps prevent swaying if there is insufficient tongue weight, although it is still good practice to have at least 10% of the trailer weight on the tongue. It turns trailering into a relaxing experience. [cid:image003.png at 01D5AC32.A4FCC970] The only downside, is that you must remember to remove the anti sway damper before close quarters maneuvering in the boat yard or at the launch ramp. The anti sway device does not tolerate being jack knifed if the trailer must be turned very sharply. Normally, this is not an issue; but, you need to be aware of the anti sway device before attempting a sharp turn. I was able to move S/V Dynamic Equilibrium sufficiently far forward on my trailer such that the rudder and outboard motor can be left in place while trailering. Raising the motor to the top of the mount and lashing it in place prevents movement. There?s enough ?stuff? to rig and unrig while trailering without having to mess around with the motor and the rudder. Here?s a weight distribution tip: The 15 gallon water tank weighs ~125 lbs when full. This tank is up in the bow under the V-berth. So, if you are having issues with insufficient tongue weight, try filling the water tank. I don?t recommend trailering with anything in the holding tank. Although it would add more tongue weight, there is too much risk of a nasty, smelly spill due to sloshing! Roger Pihlaja S/V Dynamic Equilibrium Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Mitch Mitchell Sent: Friday, December 6, 2019 8:44 AM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard That?s a great idea Bob! Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 5, 2019, at 10:12 PM, Goodness wrote: > > Mitch: I never trail an outboard long distance without a ?motor toter? or better yet removing it from the transom. Repairs to the transom are costly and time consuming. Motors are expensive. The bouncing adds tremendous aging to your motormount. > A nice solution i have for my trailer is a welded on motormount between the hitch and winch. It wont work for every trailer but the cockpit holds a 9.8 long shaft perfectly. > I have a nice collection of roadside sailing gear. (Mainsail and boom for a common 18 foot boat in perfect condition, a rudder and tiller, a brand new diesel 5 gallon fuel can, a collapsible canvas bucket, a brand new 3 gallon gasoline can.). Arrive alive and preferably with all of your boat and equipment! > Good luck! > > Bob (palatka) > >> On Dec 5, 2019, at 1:17 PM, Mitch Mitchell wrote: >> >> ?Thanks for all of the replies. I've driven the trailer on the highway and >> sway has not been a problem but I've always taken the motor and rudder off >> and put them in the truck. I'll definitely tie the motor to the railing and >> I like the idea of also running a strap from the two eyes to under the >> motor. I will try both. If anyone finds an 8hp Merc on I-95 please let me >> know. Thanks! MM >> BTW I've only launched the boat a few times since I haven't had it long and >> the last time I was bound and determined to get her all the way up on the >> trailer but to no avail. It seems to have something to do with the ramp >> angle. I'll check the archives to see if I can learn some tricks for that. >> >>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 1:05 PM Mitch Mitchell wrote: >>> >>> Yikes! >>> >>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 10:17 PM Graham Stewart >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I have done very little towing but the one time I did I was almost >>>> dragged off the road due to trailer sway. Very scary! I discovered that >>>> there was insufficient weight on the tongue but also that it was very >>>> difficult to move the boat any further forward. If I were to go on a longer >>>> trip I would measure the weight under the tongue once the boat was packed >>>> and if less than 10% of the total either move weight forward in the cabin >>>> or remove the motor from the stern. >>>> >>>> >>>> Graham Stewart >>>> Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 >>>> Kingston Ontario >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On >>>> Behalf Of Art Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list >>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 9:50 PM >>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard >>>> >>>> Mitch, What year Rhodes. I originally had a '76, and even with a >>>> backplate was uneasy on the road.Art >>>> >>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android >>>> >>>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 8:55 PM, Mitch Mitchell >>>> wrote: I?m planning on taking a long road trip with my R22 and wondering >>>> if those of you who tow do so with an outboard attached to the stern. I >>>> have an 8hp 2 stroke Merc and a 30 year old mount (image attached). This is >>>> my first trip with this boat and am picturing myself on I 95 with the motor >>>> dragging along behind me. I will be towing with a truck camper so nowhere >>>> to put motor if not on stern. Any suggestions or views would be appreciated, >>>> >>>> Mitch >>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >>>> Name: image1.jpeg >>>> Type: image/jpeg >>>> Size: 31824 bytes >>>> Desc: not available >>>> URL: < >>>> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20191204/7228515d/attachment.jpeg >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 687DF483B1C343598D78F6F4D9ACBBB7.png Type: image/png Size: 177835 bytes Desc: 687DF483B1C343598D78F6F4D9ACBBB7.png URL: From roger_pihlaja at msn.com Fri Dec 6 16:04:51 2019 From: roger_pihlaja at msn.com (ROGER PIHLAJA) Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 21:04:51 +0000 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard In-Reply-To: <00c801d5ac70$2fdaa2f0$8f8fe8d0$@ca> References: <984109AC-B09A-4A93-92BD-7C1FA9BBBF68@gmail.com> <33E30A16-B610-4033-A5FE-686B632F0174@gmail.com> , <00c801d5ac70$2fdaa2f0$8f8fe8d0$@ca> Message-ID: Graham, You?re welcome. I have 25+ years and many thousands of trailering miles on my anti sway damper. I actually wore the friction material out in my 1st unit and am now on my 2nd one. You get a loud scraping sound like worn out disk brake pads when you turn or the trailer sways when its time to replace the anti sway damper. They are not rebuildable. But, the cost of a new unit is so low that buying a new one is not much of an issue. The ball joints on each end of the damper don?t seem to wear out. My ball joints and the associated brackets are welded on. 25 years ago, when I 1st installed the anti sway damper, welding was the only option. But, I see new units can be bolted on. My trailer tongue needed a special bracket in order to provide clearance for the trailer?s surge brake master cylinder. Assuming you have this work done by a welding shop, you will still have only ~$125 sunk into the installation. That?s pretty cheap trailering insurance! Roger Pihlaja S/V Dynamic Equilibrium Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Graham Stewart Sent: Friday, December 6, 2019 3:03 PM To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard Roger: That is very helpful feedback on the anti-sway device. I always wondered about those things. I think they would be well worth the modest price. Graham -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of ROGER PIHLAJA Sent: Friday, December 6, 2019 12:43 PM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard Hi All, S/V Dynamic Equilibrium?s trailer has had an anti sway damper mounted on the trailer hitch for 25+ years. The below attached picture shows this anti sway damper available from Harbor Freight. The device mounts between the tow bar hitch on the tow vehicle and the trailer tongue. The black body has friction material (i.e. brake pads) that clamps down on the silver part on the right. Clamping pressure is adjusted by turning the black handle on the top of the black body. The silver part is attached via a small extra ball joint on the tow bar alongside of the main hitch ball on the trailer hitch. The black body is attached to the trailer tongue via another ball joint alongside of the hitch. As the trailer sways, the silver part slides in and out of the black body. The clamped friction material turns the rotational momentum of the trailer into heat, thus damping out the swaying. This is absolutely the solution to worry free trailering! It completely eliminates trailer swaying due to crosswinds, semi truck shock waves, sudden turns, road hazards, tire failure, etc. It even helps prevent swaying if there is insufficient tongue weight, although it is still good practice to have at least 10% of the trailer weight on the tongue. It turns trailering into a relaxing experience. [cid:image003.png at 01D5AC32.A4FCC970] The only downside, is that you must remember to remove the anti sway damper before close quarters maneuvering in the boat yard or at the launch ramp. The anti sway device does not tolerate being jack knifed if the trailer must be turned very sharply. Normally, this is not an issue; but, you need to be aware of the anti sway device before attempting a sharp turn. I was able to move S/V Dynamic Equilibrium sufficiently far forward on my trailer such that the rudder and outboard motor can be left in place while trailering. Raising the motor to the top of the mount and lashing it in place prevents movement. There?s enough ?stuff? to rig and unrig while trailering without having to mess around with the motor and the rudder. Here?s a weight distribution tip: The 15 gallon water tank weighs ~125 lbs when full. This tank is up in the bow under the V-berth. So, if you are having issues with insufficient tongue weight, try filling the water tank. I don?t recommend trailering with anything in the holding tank. Although it would add more tongue weight, there is too much risk of a nasty, smelly spill due to sloshing! Roger Pihlaja S/V Dynamic Equilibrium Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Mitch Mitchell Sent: Friday, December 6, 2019 8:44 AM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard That?s a great idea Bob! Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 5, 2019, at 10:12 PM, Goodness wrote: > > Mitch: I never trail an outboard long distance without a ?motor toter? or better yet removing it from the transom. Repairs to the transom are costly and time consuming. Motors are expensive. The bouncing adds tremendous aging to your motormount. > A nice solution i have for my trailer is a welded on motormount between the hitch and winch. It wont work for every trailer but the cockpit holds a 9.8 long shaft perfectly. > I have a nice collection of roadside sailing gear. (Mainsail and boom for a common 18 foot boat in perfect condition, a rudder and tiller, a brand new diesel 5 gallon fuel can, a collapsible canvas bucket, a brand new 3 gallon gasoline can.). Arrive alive and preferably with all of your boat and equipment! > Good luck! > > Bob (palatka) > >> On Dec 5, 2019, at 1:17 PM, Mitch Mitchell wrote: >> >> ?Thanks for all of the replies. I've driven the trailer on the highway and >> sway has not been a problem but I've always taken the motor and rudder off >> and put them in the truck. I'll definitely tie the motor to the railing and >> I like the idea of also running a strap from the two eyes to under the >> motor. I will try both. If anyone finds an 8hp Merc on I-95 please let me >> know. Thanks! MM >> BTW I've only launched the boat a few times since I haven't had it long and >> the last time I was bound and determined to get her all the way up on the >> trailer but to no avail. It seems to have something to do with the ramp >> angle. I'll check the archives to see if I can learn some tricks for that. >> >>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 1:05 PM Mitch Mitchell wrote: >>> >>> Yikes! >>> >>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 10:17 PM Graham Stewart >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I have done very little towing but the one time I did I was almost >>>> dragged off the road due to trailer sway. Very scary! I discovered that >>>> there was insufficient weight on the tongue but also that it was very >>>> difficult to move the boat any further forward. If I were to go on a longer >>>> trip I would measure the weight under the tongue once the boat was packed >>>> and if less than 10% of the total either move weight forward in the cabin >>>> or remove the motor from the stern. >>>> >>>> >>>> Graham Stewart >>>> Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 >>>> Kingston Ontario >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On >>>> Behalf Of Art Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list >>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 9:50 PM >>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard >>>> >>>> Mitch, What year Rhodes. I originally had a '76, and even with a >>>> backplate was uneasy on the road.Art >>>> >>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android >>>> >>>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 8:55 PM, Mitch Mitchell >>>> wrote: I?m planning on taking a long road trip with my R22 and wondering >>>> if those of you who tow do so with an outboard attached to the stern. I >>>> have an 8hp 2 stroke Merc and a 30 year old mount (image attached). This is >>>> my first trip with this boat and am picturing myself on I 95 with the motor >>>> dragging along behind me. I will be towing with a truck camper so nowhere >>>> to put motor if not on stern. Any suggestions or views would be appreciated, >>>> >>>> Mitch >>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >>>> Name: image1.jpeg >>>> Type: image/jpeg >>>> Size: 31824 bytes >>>> Desc: not available >>>> URL: < >>>> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20191204/7228515d/attachment.jpeg >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 687DF483B1C343598D78F6F4D9ACBBB7.png Type: image/png Size: 177835 bytes Desc: 687DF483B1C343598D78F6F4D9ACBBB7.png URL: From dlet3 at aol.com Fri Dec 6 20:31:15 2019 From: dlet3 at aol.com (Dana LeTendre) Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 19:31:15 -0600 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard In-Reply-To: References: <984109AC-B09A-4A93-92BD-7C1FA9BBBF68@gmail.com> <33E30A16-B610-4033-A5FE-686B632F0174@gmail.com> , <00c801d5ac70$2fdaa2f0$8f8fe8d0$@ca> Message-ID: <8A598E71-C09D-4D77-B2B6-527762756465@aol.com> Hi Folks, Been reading the various experiences about trailering with the outboard. We have hauled a Rhodes 22 through Mexico and all the way down to Belize City, which is about 2,000 miles whichever way you go. Actually, we hired a guy to haul three different Rhodes 22's down that same path. and each time I secured the motor in the cabin. I mean SECURED it. I also secured the rudder in the cockpit floor, well-padded and secured. This guy put the trailered boat on a big flatbed and hauled our boat and a bunch of other stuff with a big rig semi. I know this is not the same thing as trailering, and I didn't have to deal with any sway issued, but there was plenty of bumping and vibrating and the motor survived just fine. Everybody's situation is a bit different, but unless I was going only a very short distance I'd remove the motor and rudder to the cabin and cockpit, respectively. Dana LeTendre "Caye Dreams" San Pedro, Belize On Dec 6, 2019, at 3:04 PM, ROGER PIHLAJA wrote: > Graham, > > You?re welcome. I have 25+ years and many thousands of trailering miles on my anti sway damper. I actually wore the friction material out in my 1st unit and am now on my 2nd one. You get a loud scraping sound like worn out disk brake pads when you turn or the trailer sways when its time to replace the anti sway damper. They are not rebuildable. But, the cost of a new unit is so low that buying a new one is not much of an issue. The ball joints on each end of the damper don?t seem to wear out. > > My ball joints and the associated brackets are welded on. 25 years ago, when I 1st installed the anti sway damper, welding was the only option. But, I see new units can be bolted on. My trailer tongue needed a special bracket in order to provide clearance for the trailer?s surge brake master cylinder. Assuming you have this work done by a welding shop, you will still have only ~$125 sunk into the installation. That?s pretty cheap trailering insurance! > > Roger Pihlaja > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > From: Graham Stewart > Sent: Friday, December 6, 2019 3:03 PM > To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard > > Roger: That is very helpful feedback on the anti-sway device. I always wondered about those things. I think they would be well worth the modest price. > Graham > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of ROGER PIHLAJA > Sent: Friday, December 6, 2019 12:43 PM > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard > > Hi All, > > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium?s trailer has had an anti sway damper mounted on the trailer hitch for 25+ years. The below attached picture shows this anti sway damper available from Harbor Freight. The device mounts between the tow bar hitch on the tow vehicle and the trailer tongue. The black body has friction material (i.e. brake pads) that clamps down on the silver part on the right. Clamping pressure is adjusted by turning the black handle on the top of the black body. The silver part is attached via a small extra ball joint on the tow bar alongside of the main hitch ball on the trailer hitch. The black body is attached to the trailer tongue via another ball joint alongside of the hitch. As the trailer sways, the silver part slides in and out of the black body. The clamped friction material turns the rotational momentum of the trailer into heat, thus damping out the swaying. This is absolutely the solution to worry free trailering! It completely eliminates trailer swaying due to crosswinds, semi truck shock waves, sudden turns, road hazards, tire failure, etc. It even helps prevent swaying if there is insufficient tongue weight, although it is still good practice to have at least 10% of the trailer weight on the tongue. It turns trailering into a relaxing experience. > > [cid:image003.png at 01D5AC32.A4FCC970] > > The only downside, is that you must remember to remove the anti sway damper before close quarters maneuvering in the boat yard or at the launch ramp. The anti sway device does not tolerate being jack knifed if the trailer must be turned very sharply. Normally, this is not an issue; but, you need to be aware of the anti sway device before attempting a sharp turn. > > I was able to move S/V Dynamic Equilibrium sufficiently far forward on my trailer such that the rudder and outboard motor can be left in place while trailering. Raising the motor to the top of the mount and lashing it in place prevents movement. There?s enough ?stuff? to rig and unrig while trailering without having to mess around with the motor and the rudder. > > Here?s a weight distribution tip: The 15 gallon water tank weighs ~125 lbs when full. This tank is up in the bow under the V-berth. So, if you are having issues with insufficient tongue weight, try filling the water tank. > > I don?t recommend trailering with anything in the holding tank. Although it would add more tongue weight, there is too much risk of a nasty, smelly spill due to sloshing! > > Roger Pihlaja > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > From: Mitch Mitchell > Sent: Friday, December 6, 2019 8:44 AM > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard > > That?s a great idea Bob! > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Dec 5, 2019, at 10:12 PM, Goodness wrote: >> >> Mitch: I never trail an outboard long distance without a ?motor toter? or better yet removing it from the transom. Repairs to the transom are costly and time consuming. Motors are expensive. The bouncing adds tremendous aging to your motormount. >> A nice solution i have for my trailer is a welded on motormount between the hitch and winch. It wont work for every trailer but the cockpit holds a 9.8 long shaft perfectly. >> I have a nice collection of roadside sailing gear. (Mainsail and boom for a common 18 foot boat in perfect condition, a rudder and tiller, a brand new diesel 5 gallon fuel can, a collapsible canvas bucket, a brand new 3 gallon gasoline can.). Arrive alive and preferably with all of your boat and equipment! >> Good luck! >> >> Bob (palatka) >> >>> On Dec 5, 2019, at 1:17 PM, Mitch Mitchell wrote: >>> >>> ?Thanks for all of the replies. I've driven the trailer on the highway and >>> sway has not been a problem but I've always taken the motor and rudder off >>> and put them in the truck. I'll definitely tie the motor to the railing and >>> I like the idea of also running a strap from the two eyes to under the >>> motor. I will try both. If anyone finds an 8hp Merc on I-95 please let me >>> know. Thanks! MM >>> BTW I've only launched the boat a few times since I haven't had it long and >>> the last time I was bound and determined to get her all the way up on the >>> trailer but to no avail. It seems to have something to do with the ramp >>> angle. I'll check the archives to see if I can learn some tricks for that. >>> >>>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 1:05 PM Mitch Mitchell wrote: >>>> >>>> Yikes! >>>> >>>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 10:17 PM Graham Stewart >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I have done very little towing but the one time I did I was almost >>>>> dragged off the road due to trailer sway. Very scary! I discovered that >>>>> there was insufficient weight on the tongue but also that it was very >>>>> difficult to move the boat any further forward. If I were to go on a longer >>>>> trip I would measure the weight under the tongue once the boat was packed >>>>> and if less than 10% of the total either move weight forward in the cabin >>>>> or remove the motor from the stern. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Graham Stewart >>>>> Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 >>>>> Kingston Ontario >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On >>>>> Behalf Of Art Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 9:50 PM >>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List >>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard >>>>> >>>>> Mitch, What year Rhodes. I originally had a '76, and even with a >>>>> backplate was uneasy on the road.Art >>>>> >>>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 8:55 PM, Mitch Mitchell >>>>> wrote: I?m planning on taking a long road trip with my R22 and wondering >>>>> if those of you who tow do so with an outboard attached to the stern. I >>>>> have an 8hp 2 stroke Merc and a 30 year old mount (image attached). This is >>>>> my first trip with this boat and am picturing myself on I 95 with the motor >>>>> dragging along behind me. I will be towing with a truck camper so nowhere >>>>> to put motor if not on stern. Any suggestions or views would be appreciated, >>>>> >>>>> Mitch >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >>>>> Name: image1.jpeg >>>>> Type: image/jpeg >>>>> Size: 31824 bytes >>>>> Desc: not available >>>>> URL: < >>>>> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20191204/7228515d/attachment.jpeg >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: 687DF483B1C343598D78F6F4D9ACBBB7.png > Type: image/png > Size: 177835 bytes > Desc: 687DF483B1C343598D78F6F4D9ACBBB7.png > URL: > From mitchpadl at gmail.com Fri Dec 6 21:07:54 2019 From: mitchpadl at gmail.com (Mitch Mitchell) Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 21:07:54 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard In-Reply-To: <00c801d5ac70$2fdaa2f0$8f8fe8d0$@ca> References: <984109AC-B09A-4A93-92BD-7C1FA9BBBF68@gmail.com> <33E30A16-B610-4033-A5FE-686B632F0174@gmail.com> <00c801d5ac70$2fdaa2f0$8f8fe8d0$@ca> Message-ID: <3F51CBD1-3B06-4F8A-A01B-C32453CDEBCB@gmail.com> I?ll definitely have to check in to that anti-sway device. I?ve got a hitch extension so that it reaches beyond my truck camper so sway could be a problem. Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 6, 2019, at 3:03 PM, Graham Stewart wrote: > > Roger: That is very helpful feedback on the anti-sway device. I always wondered about those things. I think they would be well worth the modest price. > Graham > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of ROGER PIHLAJA > Sent: Friday, December 6, 2019 12:43 PM > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard > > Hi All, > > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium?s trailer has had an anti sway damper mounted on the trailer hitch for 25+ years. The below attached picture shows this anti sway damper available from Harbor Freight. The device mounts between the tow bar hitch on the tow vehicle and the trailer tongue. The black body has friction material (i.e. brake pads) that clamps down on the silver part on the right. Clamping pressure is adjusted by turning the black handle on the top of the black body. The silver part is attached via a small extra ball joint on the tow bar alongside of the main hitch ball on the trailer hitch. The black body is attached to the trailer tongue via another ball joint alongside of the hitch. As the trailer sways, the silver part slides in and out of the black body. The clamped friction material turns the rotational momentum of the trailer into heat, thus damping out the swaying. This is absolutely the solution to worry free trailering! It completely eliminates trailer swaying due to crosswinds, semi truck shock waves, sudden turns, road hazards, tire failure, etc. It even helps prevent swaying if there is insufficient tongue weight, although it is still good practice to have at least 10% of the trailer weight on the tongue. It turns trailering into a relaxing experience. > > [cid:image003.png at 01D5AC32.A4FCC970] > > The only downside, is that you must remember to remove the anti sway damper before close quarters maneuvering in the boat yard or at the launch ramp. The anti sway device does not tolerate being jack knifed if the trailer must be turned very sharply. Normally, this is not an issue; but, you need to be aware of the anti sway device before attempting a sharp turn. > > I was able to move S/V Dynamic Equilibrium sufficiently far forward on my trailer such that the rudder and outboard motor can be left in place while trailering. Raising the motor to the top of the mount and lashing it in place prevents movement. There?s enough ?stuff? to rig and unrig while trailering without having to mess around with the motor and the rudder. > > Here?s a weight distribution tip: The 15 gallon water tank weighs ~125 lbs when full. This tank is up in the bow under the V-berth. So, if you are having issues with insufficient tongue weight, try filling the water tank. > > I don?t recommend trailering with anything in the holding tank. Although it would add more tongue weight, there is too much risk of a nasty, smelly spill due to sloshing! > > Roger Pihlaja > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > From: Mitch Mitchell > Sent: Friday, December 6, 2019 8:44 AM > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard > > That?s a great idea Bob! > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Dec 5, 2019, at 10:12 PM, Goodness wrote: >> >> Mitch: I never trail an outboard long distance without a ?motor toter? or better yet removing it from the transom. Repairs to the transom are costly and time consuming. Motors are expensive. The bouncing adds tremendous aging to your motormount. >> A nice solution i have for my trailer is a welded on motormount between the hitch and winch. It wont work for every trailer but the cockpit holds a 9.8 long shaft perfectly. >> I have a nice collection of roadside sailing gear. (Mainsail and boom for a common 18 foot boat in perfect condition, a rudder and tiller, a brand new diesel 5 gallon fuel can, a collapsible canvas bucket, a brand new 3 gallon gasoline can.). Arrive alive and preferably with all of your boat and equipment! >> Good luck! >> >> Bob (palatka) >> >>> On Dec 5, 2019, at 1:17 PM, Mitch Mitchell wrote: >>> >>> ?Thanks for all of the replies. I've driven the trailer on the highway and >>> sway has not been a problem but I've always taken the motor and rudder off >>> and put them in the truck. I'll definitely tie the motor to the railing and >>> I like the idea of also running a strap from the two eyes to under the >>> motor. I will try both. If anyone finds an 8hp Merc on I-95 please let me >>> know. Thanks! MM >>> BTW I've only launched the boat a few times since I haven't had it long and >>> the last time I was bound and determined to get her all the way up on the >>> trailer but to no avail. It seems to have something to do with the ramp >>> angle. I'll check the archives to see if I can learn some tricks for that. >>> >>>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 1:05 PM Mitch Mitchell wrote: >>>> >>>> Yikes! >>>> >>>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 10:17 PM Graham Stewart >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I have done very little towing but the one time I did I was almost >>>>> dragged off the road due to trailer sway. Very scary! I discovered that >>>>> there was insufficient weight on the tongue but also that it was very >>>>> difficult to move the boat any further forward. If I were to go on a longer >>>>> trip I would measure the weight under the tongue once the boat was packed >>>>> and if less than 10% of the total either move weight forward in the cabin >>>>> or remove the motor from the stern. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Graham Stewart >>>>> Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 >>>>> Kingston Ontario >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On >>>>> Behalf Of Art Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 9:50 PM >>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List >>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard >>>>> >>>>> Mitch, What year Rhodes. I originally had a '76, and even with a >>>>> backplate was uneasy on the road.Art >>>>> >>>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 8:55 PM, Mitch Mitchell >>>>> wrote: I?m planning on taking a long road trip with my R22 and wondering >>>>> if those of you who tow do so with an outboard attached to the stern. I >>>>> have an 8hp 2 stroke Merc and a 30 year old mount (image attached). This is >>>>> my first trip with this boat and am picturing myself on I 95 with the motor >>>>> dragging along behind me. I will be towing with a truck camper so nowhere >>>>> to put motor if not on stern. Any suggestions or views would be appreciated, >>>>> >>>>> Mitch >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >>>>> Name: image1.jpeg >>>>> Type: image/jpeg >>>>> Size: 31824 bytes >>>>> Desc: not available >>>>> URL: < >>>>> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20191204/7228515d/attachment.jpeg >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: 687DF483B1C343598D78F6F4D9ACBBB7.png > Type: image/png > Size: 177835 bytes > Desc: 687DF483B1C343598D78F6F4D9ACBBB7.png > URL: > From peter at sunnybeeches.com Fri Dec 6 21:09:30 2019 From: peter at sunnybeeches.com (Peter Nyberg) Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 21:09:30 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard In-Reply-To: <8A598E71-C09D-4D77-B2B6-527762756465@aol.com> References: <984109AC-B09A-4A93-92BD-7C1FA9BBBF68@gmail.com> <33E30A16-B610-4033-A5FE-686B632F0174@gmail.com> <00c801d5ac70$2fdaa2f0$8f8fe8d0$@ca> <8A598E71-C09D-4D77-B2B6-527762756465@aol.com> Message-ID: Well, there?s an obvious lesson to be learned here. We need to put export restrictions on the Rhodes 22 immediately, or soon there won?t be any left in the USA. But seriously, I don?t have a glimmer of an idea of how I would go about moving a 90 pound outboard from the motor mount into the cabin, or even the cockpit. ?Peter > On Dec 6, 2019, at 8:31 PM, Dana LeTendre via Rhodes22-list wrote: > > Hi Folks, > > Been reading the various experiences about trailering with the outboard. We have hauled a Rhodes 22 through Mexico and all the way down to Belize City, which is about 2,000 miles whichever way you go. Actually, we hired a guy to haul three different Rhodes 22's down that same path. and each time I secured the motor in the cabin. I mean SECURED it. I also secured the rudder in the cockpit floor, well-padded and secured. This guy put the trailered boat on a big flatbed and hauled our boat and a bunch of other stuff with a big rig semi. I know this is not the same thing as trailering, and I didn't have to deal with any sway issued, but there was plenty of bumping and vibrating and the motor survived just fine. Everybody's situation is a bit different, but unless I was going only a very short distance I'd remove the motor and rudder to the cabin and cockpit, respectively. > > Dana LeTendre > "Caye Dreams" > San Pedro, Belize > From gstewart8 at cogeco.ca Fri Dec 6 22:32:27 2019 From: gstewart8 at cogeco.ca (Graham Stewart) Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 22:32:27 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck In-Reply-To: <198453652.2652499.1575641600765@mail.yahoo.com> References: <003201d5a8a7$da7e9030$8f7bb090$@ca> <003601d5a8c4$e23be490$a6b3adb0$@ca> <1575298706725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <00b701d5a9e6$2dade140$8909a3c0$@ca> <185718492.1623572.1575387870653@mail.yahoo.com> <00c601d5a9f7$ef036110$cd0a2330$@ca> <002101d5a9fe$f57f84e0$e07e8ea0$@ebsmed.com> <00d601d5aa05$499fde70$dcdf9b50$@ca> <1575424369617-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <1022235561.5587557.1575424426935@mail.yahoo.com> <008a01d5abef$2394b7a0$6abe26e0$@ca> <198453652.2652499.1575641600765@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00e101d5acae$f55a7210$e00f5630$@ca> Art: No, my boat and Rummy's were yellow and so far as I know the only yellow ones made. Graham -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Art Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list Sent: Friday, December 6, 2019 9:13 AM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck Graham, We are on the same page, my friend. Is the R22 Rummy's boat. We can all recall when he had his bill redone in yellow. Art Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 11:39 PM, Graham Stewart wrote: Rick: Well said. For me restoring the boat was something I actually enjoyed. If I saw it as a chore I would have quit many years ago. In fact, my Rhodes was the second boat that I did an extensive restoration of. The first was a 19' 1960 mahogany lapstrake boat which required that I replace everything below the waterline (including steam bent oak ribs) and transom. That took me 10 years of summer free time with at least one year when I did nothing due to illness. Then, last year I reworked the deck using strips of mahogany. That took most of the year preparing the material during the winter and installing the deck in the summer. None of that activity reflected a sound financial calculation but it looks awesome. For me the work is like a hobby rather than a task and what hoppy reflects a justified rationale for the use of money or time? I don't follow sports and could not imagine spending hours every weekend watching games on my TV and, in the end, having absolutely nothing to show for it. But for those who do enjoy watching sports the time is well spent. I do it because it interests me, is a creative outlet, and provides something to be proud of. So I have spent the last 20 plus years of my free time working on two old boats - neither of which has much value even now but are sound, beautiful and will last another 40+ years. Given that I am in my mid 70s 40 years will probably suffice. I love the challenge of doing something that I think is way beyond my competence. Everything I have done I approached as a total novice often not having a clue at the beginning how to actually accomplish what I needed to do. If this was just about time and money no one would ever undertake a restoration twice. You can't be that na?ve twice. It seems to me that anyone I have had contact who had built a boat or done major restoration has done it on multiple occasions. Messing around in boats is often its own reward - if you are inclined that way. Graham Stewart Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 Kingston Ontario -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Rick Lange Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 11:00 AM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck For some, the greatest pleasure of a trip is the journey. For others, the greatest pleasure is reaching the destination. For the journey types, the process of rehabilitating an old boat can be its own reward. Regards, Rick Lange On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 11:40 AM Todd Tavares wrote: > MJM gave me sound advice early on. I'm paraphrasing here (I saved the email > but hsve time to look for it) > He said.... If you consider the time, money and aggravation involved with > rebuilding and restoring an older boat; especially a Rhodes 22 with all of > its one-of-a-kind and one-off parts, your time and money would be better > spent buying a new boat or at least, one that needs less work. > > I have taken two Rhodes 22s to the dump. I have videos saved somewhere of > the guys on the big earth movers racing to see who could crush them first. > > > tavares0947 at gmail.com > > On Tue, Dec 3, 2019, 8:53 PM Art Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list < > rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote: > > > The rebuild skills of this group of skippers bodes well for the future of > > our fleet when GB may eventually not have the capability. The business > > model has thrived well under Stan's excellent leadership and business > > acumen. Think about it, just building one fixture, the boom room and > covers > > has been totally satisfying for me, especially having such satisfaction > of > > client skippers. > > Best,Art > > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > > > > On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 8:37 PM, Jesse Shumaker< > > jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com> wrote: Restorers, thanks for sharing > > all the hard won experience on the topic of > > overhauling the foredeck. Very impressive work on formidable projects! > > > > I echo Chris's sentiments. Count me in as another member of of the > > S.P.C.R. > > and A.V.R.A. > > > > > > > > -- > > Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: First sail - finally - August 10, 2017 (1).jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 523386 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: New deck finished 2018.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 132757 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gstewart8 at cogeco.ca Fri Dec 6 22:52:52 2019 From: gstewart8 at cogeco.ca (Graham Stewart) Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 22:52:52 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard In-Reply-To: <3F51CBD1-3B06-4F8A-A01B-C32453CDEBCB@gmail.com> References: <984109AC-B09A-4A93-92BD-7C1FA9BBBF68@gmail.com> <33E30A16-B610-4033-A5FE-686B632F0174@gmail.com> <00c801d5ac70$2fdaa2f0$8f8fe8d0$@ca> <3F51CBD1-3B06-4F8A-A01B-C32453CDEBCB@gmail.com> Message-ID: <00e201d5acb1$ce5e8ef0$6b1bacd0$@ca> The distance from the rear axle to the hitch makes a big difference in relation to sway. The greater the distance the more you will want to pay attention to sway. Graham -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Mitch Mitchell Sent: Friday, December 6, 2019 9:08 PM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard I?ll definitely have to check in to that anti-sway device. I?ve got a hitch extension so that it reaches beyond my truck camper so sway could be a problem. Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 6, 2019, at 3:03 PM, Graham Stewart wrote: > > Roger: That is very helpful feedback on the anti-sway device. I always wondered about those things. I think they would be well worth the modest price. > Graham > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of ROGER PIHLAJA > Sent: Friday, December 6, 2019 12:43 PM > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard > > Hi All, > > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium?s trailer has had an anti sway damper mounted on the trailer hitch for 25+ years. The below attached picture shows this anti sway damper available from Harbor Freight. The device mounts between the tow bar hitch on the tow vehicle and the trailer tongue. The black body has friction material (i.e. brake pads) that clamps down on the silver part on the right. Clamping pressure is adjusted by turning the black handle on the top of the black body. The silver part is attached via a small extra ball joint on the tow bar alongside of the main hitch ball on the trailer hitch. The black body is attached to the trailer tongue via another ball joint alongside of the hitch. As the trailer sways, the silver part slides in and out of the black body. The clamped friction material turns the rotational momentum of the trailer into heat, thus damping out the swaying. This is absolutely the solution to worry free trailering! It completely eliminates trailer swaying due to crosswinds, semi truck shock waves, sudden turns, road hazards, tire failure, etc. It even helps prevent swaying if there is insufficient tongue weight, although it is still good practice to have at least 10% of the trailer weight on the tongue. It turns trailering into a relaxing experience. > > [cid:image003.png at 01D5AC32.A4FCC970] > > The only downside, is that you must remember to remove the anti sway damper before close quarters maneuvering in the boat yard or at the launch ramp. The anti sway device does not tolerate being jack knifed if the trailer must be turned very sharply. Normally, this is not an issue; but, you need to be aware of the anti sway device before attempting a sharp turn. > > I was able to move S/V Dynamic Equilibrium sufficiently far forward on my trailer such that the rudder and outboard motor can be left in place while trailering. Raising the motor to the top of the mount and lashing it in place prevents movement. There?s enough ?stuff? to rig and unrig while trailering without having to mess around with the motor and the rudder. > > Here?s a weight distribution tip: The 15 gallon water tank weighs ~125 lbs when full. This tank is up in the bow under the V-berth. So, if you are having issues with insufficient tongue weight, try filling the water tank. > > I don?t recommend trailering with anything in the holding tank. Although it would add more tongue weight, there is too much risk of a nasty, smelly spill due to sloshing! > > Roger Pihlaja > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > From: Mitch Mitchell > Sent: Friday, December 6, 2019 8:44 AM > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard > > That?s a great idea Bob! > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Dec 5, 2019, at 10:12 PM, Goodness wrote: >> >> Mitch: I never trail an outboard long distance without a ?motor toter? or better yet removing it from the transom. Repairs to the transom are costly and time consuming. Motors are expensive. The bouncing adds tremendous aging to your motormount. >> A nice solution i have for my trailer is a welded on motormount between the hitch and winch. It wont work for every trailer but the cockpit holds a 9.8 long shaft perfectly. >> I have a nice collection of roadside sailing gear. (Mainsail and boom for a common 18 foot boat in perfect condition, a rudder and tiller, a brand new diesel 5 gallon fuel can, a collapsible canvas bucket, a brand new 3 gallon gasoline can.). Arrive alive and preferably with all of your boat and equipment! >> Good luck! >> >> Bob (palatka) >> >>> On Dec 5, 2019, at 1:17 PM, Mitch Mitchell wrote: >>> >>> ?Thanks for all of the replies. I've driven the trailer on the highway and >>> sway has not been a problem but I've always taken the motor and rudder off >>> and put them in the truck. I'll definitely tie the motor to the railing and >>> I like the idea of also running a strap from the two eyes to under the >>> motor. I will try both. If anyone finds an 8hp Merc on I-95 please let me >>> know. Thanks! MM >>> BTW I've only launched the boat a few times since I haven't had it long and >>> the last time I was bound and determined to get her all the way up on the >>> trailer but to no avail. It seems to have something to do with the ramp >>> angle. I'll check the archives to see if I can learn some tricks for that. >>> >>>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 1:05 PM Mitch Mitchell wrote: >>>> >>>> Yikes! >>>> >>>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 10:17 PM Graham Stewart >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I have done very little towing but the one time I did I was almost >>>>> dragged off the road due to trailer sway. Very scary! I discovered that >>>>> there was insufficient weight on the tongue but also that it was very >>>>> difficult to move the boat any further forward. If I were to go on a longer >>>>> trip I would measure the weight under the tongue once the boat was packed >>>>> and if less than 10% of the total either move weight forward in the cabin >>>>> or remove the motor from the stern. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Graham Stewart >>>>> Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 >>>>> Kingston Ontario >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On >>>>> Behalf Of Art Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 9:50 PM >>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List >>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard >>>>> >>>>> Mitch, What year Rhodes. I originally had a '76, and even with a >>>>> backplate was uneasy on the road.Art >>>>> >>>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 8:55 PM, Mitch Mitchell >>>>> wrote: I?m planning on taking a long road trip with my R22 and wondering >>>>> if those of you who tow do so with an outboard attached to the stern. I >>>>> have an 8hp 2 stroke Merc and a 30 year old mount (image attached). This is >>>>> my first trip with this boat and am picturing myself on I 95 with the motor >>>>> dragging along behind me. I will be towing with a truck camper so nowhere >>>>> to put motor if not on stern. Any suggestions or views would be appreciated, >>>>> >>>>> Mitch >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >>>>> Name: image1.jpeg >>>>> Type: image/jpeg >>>>> Size: 31824 bytes >>>>> Desc: not available >>>>> URL: < >>>>> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20191204/7228515d/attachment.jpeg >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: 687DF483B1C343598D78F6F4D9ACBBB7.png > Type: image/png > Size: 177835 bytes > Desc: 687DF483B1C343598D78F6F4D9ACBBB7.png > URL: > From jbconnolly at comcast.net Fri Dec 6 23:39:16 2019 From: jbconnolly at comcast.net (Jim Connolly) Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 23:39:16 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard Message-ID: All, I had good luck with an equal-i-zer weight distributing sway control hitch towing my (former) '85 (recycled '03) with relatively lightweight tow vehicles ('98 S Blazer and then an '08 Toyota Highlander). Disconnected quickly and easily at ramp to extend trailer tongue. Jim Connolly currently boatless Sent from my Verizon Motorola Smartphone On Dec 6, 2019 4:04 PM, ROGER PIHLAJA wrote: > > Graham, > > You?re welcome.? I have 25+ years and many thousands of trailering miles on my anti sway damper.? I actually wore the friction material out in my 1st unit and am now on my 2nd one.? You get a loud scraping sound like worn out disk brake pads when you turn or the trailer sways when its time to replace the anti sway damper.? They are not rebuildable.? But, the cost of a new unit is so low that buying a new one is not much of an issue.? The ball joints on each end of the damper don?t seem to wear out. > > My ball joints and the associated brackets are welded on.? 25 years ago, when I 1st installed the anti sway damper, welding was the only option.? But, I see new units can be bolted on.? My trailer tongue needed a special bracket in order to provide clearance for the trailer?s surge brake master cylinder.? Assuming you have this work done by a welding shop, you will still have only ~$125 sunk into the installation. That?s pretty cheap trailering insurance! > > Roger Pihlaja > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > From: Graham Stewart > Sent: Friday, December 6, 2019 3:03 PM > To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard > > Roger: That is very helpful feedback on the anti-sway device. I always wondered about those things. I think they would be well worth the modest price. > Graham > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of ROGER PIHLAJA > Sent: Friday, December 6, 2019 12:43 PM > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard > > Hi All, > > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium?s trailer has had an anti sway damper mounted on the trailer hitch for 25+ years.? The below attached picture shows this anti sway damper available from Harbor Freight.? The device mounts between the tow bar hitch on the tow vehicle and the trailer tongue.? The black body has friction material (i.e. brake pads) that clamps down on the silver part on the right.? Clamping pressure is adjusted by turning the black handle on the top of the black body.? The silver part is attached via a small extra ball joint on the tow bar alongside of the main hitch ball on the trailer hitch.? The black body is attached to the trailer tongue via another ball joint alongside of the hitch.? As the trailer sways, the silver part slides in and out of the black body.? The clamped friction material turns the rotational momentum of the trailer into heat, thus damping out the swaying.? This is absolutely the solution to worry free trailering!? It completely eliminates trailer swaying due to crosswinds, semi truck shock waves, sudden turns, road hazards, tire failure, etc.? It even helps prevent swaying if there is insufficient tongue weight, although it is still good practice to have at least 10% of the trailer weight on the tongue.? It turns trailering into a relaxing experience. > > [cid:image003.png at 01D5AC32.A4FCC970] > > The only downside, is that you must remember to remove the anti sway damper before close quarters maneuvering in the boat yard or at the launch ramp.? The anti sway device does not tolerate being jack knifed if the trailer must be turned very sharply.? Normally, this is not an issue; but, you need to be aware of the anti sway device before attempting a sharp turn. > > I was able to move S/V Dynamic Equilibrium sufficiently far forward on my trailer such that the rudder and outboard motor can be left in place while trailering.? Raising the motor to the top of the mount and lashing it in place prevents movement.? There?s enough ?stuff? to rig and unrig while trailering without having to mess around with the motor and the rudder. > > Here?s a weight distribution tip: The 15 gallon water tank weighs ~125 lbs when full.? This tank is up in the bow under the V-berth.? So, if you are having issues with insufficient tongue weight, try filling the water tank. > > I don?t recommend trailering with anything in the holding tank.? Although it would add more tongue weight, there is too much risk of a nasty, smelly spill due to sloshing! > > Roger Pihlaja > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > From: Mitch Mitchell > Sent: Friday, December 6, 2019 8:44 AM > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard > > That?s a great idea Bob! > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Dec 5, 2019, at 10:12 PM, Goodness wrote: > > > > Mitch:? I never trail an outboard long distance without a ?motor toter? or better yet removing it from the transom.? Repairs to the transom are costly and time consuming.? Motors are expensive.? The bouncing adds tremendous aging to your motormount. > > A nice solution i have for my trailer is a welded on motormount between the hitch and winch.? It wont work for every trailer but the cockpit holds a 9.8 long shaft perfectly. > > I have a nice collection of roadside sailing gear.? (Mainsail and boom for a common 18 foot boat in perfect condition, a rudder and tiller, a brand new diesel 5 gallon fuel can, a collapsible canvas bucket, a brand new 3 gallon gasoline can.). Arrive alive and preferably with all of your boat and equipment! > > Good luck! > > > > Bob (palatka) > > > >> On Dec 5, 2019, at 1:17 PM, Mitch Mitchell wrote: > >> > >> ?Thanks for all of the replies. I've driven the trailer on the highway and > >> sway has not been a problem but I've always taken the motor and rudder off > >> and put them in the truck. I'll definitely tie the motor to the railing and > >> I like the idea of also running a strap from the two eyes? to under the > >> motor. I will try both. If anyone finds an 8hp Merc on I-95 please let me > >> know.? Thanks! MM > >> BTW I've only launched the boat a few times since I haven't had it long and > >> the last time I was bound and determined to get her all the way up on the > >> trailer but to no avail. It seems to have something to do with the ramp > >> angle. I'll check the archives to see if I can learn some tricks for that. > >> > >>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 1:05 PM Mitch Mitchell wrote: > >>> > >>> Yikes! > >>> > >>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 10:17 PM Graham Stewart > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> I have done very little towing but the one time I did I was almost > >>>> dragged off the road due to trailer sway. Very scary! I discovered that > >>>> there was insufficient weight on the tongue but also that it was very > >>>> difficult to move the boat any further forward. If I were to go on a longer > >>>> trip I would measure the weight under the tongue once the boat was packed > >>>> and if less than 10% of the total either move weight forward in the cabin > >>>> or remove the motor from the stern. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Graham Stewart > >>>> Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 > >>>> Kingston Ontario > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On > >>>> Behalf Of Art Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 9:50 PM > >>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List > >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard > >>>> > >>>> Mitch, What year Rhodes. I originally had a '76, and even with a > >>>> backplate was uneasy on the road.Art > >>>> > >>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > >>>> > >>>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 8:55 PM, Mitch Mitchell > >>>> wrote:?? I?m planning on taking a long road trip with my R22 and wondering > >>>> if those of you who tow do so with an outboard attached to the stern. I > >>>> have an 8hp 2 stroke Merc and a 30 year old mount (image attached). This is > >>>> my first trip with this boat and am picturing myself on I 95 with the motor > >>>> dragging along behind me. I will be towing with a truck camper so nowhere > >>>> to put motor if not on stern. Any suggestions or views would be appreciated, > >>>> > >>>> Mitch > >>>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > >>>> Name: image1.jpeg > >>>> Type: image/jpeg > >>>> Size: 31824 bytes > >>>> Desc: not available > >>>> URL: < > >>>> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20191204/7228515d/attachment.jpeg > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: 687DF483B1C343598D78F6F4D9ACBBB7.png > Type: image/png > Size: 177835 bytes > Desc: 687DF483B1C343598D78F6F4D9ACBBB7.png > URL: > From roger_pihlaja at msn.com Sat Dec 7 00:06:20 2019 From: roger_pihlaja at msn.com (ROGER PIHLAJA) Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2019 05:06:20 +0000 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard In-Reply-To: <8A598E71-C09D-4D77-B2B6-527762756465@aol.com> References: <984109AC-B09A-4A93-92BD-7C1FA9BBBF68@gmail.com> <33E30A16-B610-4033-A5FE-686B632F0174@gmail.com> , <00c801d5ac70$2fdaa2f0$8f8fe8d0$@ca> , <8A598E71-C09D-4D77-B2B6-527762756465@aol.com> Message-ID: Dana, How many outboards on power boats do you see being trailered down the road? How many do you see with the outboard removed and secured inside the hull? The Rhodes 22 transom is built like a tank. Having the rudder and motor mounted won?t hurt anything. As long as the weight of the motor and rudder don?t affect the trailer tongue weight too much and cause instability on the highway, removing them for trailering is waste of time and energy. Getting the tongue weight correct is simply a matter of moving the boat fore and aft on the bunks until at least 10% of the total weight is on the tongue. It?s an adjustment you do once and it?s done. While it doesn?t hurt anything to remove the rudder and motor, there is plenty involved with rigging and unrigging the boat without messing around with the rudder and motor too. Roger Pihlaja S/V Dynamic Equilibrium Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Dana LeTendre via Rhodes22-list Sent: Friday, December 6, 2019 8:31 PM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard Hi Folks, Been reading the various experiences about trailering with the outboard. We have hauled a Rhodes 22 through Mexico and all the way down to Belize City, which is about 2,000 miles whichever way you go. Actually, we hired a guy to haul three different Rhodes 22's down that same path. and each time I secured the motor in the cabin. I mean SECURED it. I also secured the rudder in the cockpit floor, well-padded and secured. This guy put the trailered boat on a big flatbed and hauled our boat and a bunch of other stuff with a big rig semi. I know this is not the same thing as trailering, and I didn't have to deal with any sway issued, but there was plenty of bumping and vibrating and the motor survived just fine. Everybody's situation is a bit different, but unless I was going only a very short distance I'd remove the motor and rudder to the cabin and cockpit, respectively. Dana LeTendre "Caye Dreams" San Pedro, Belize On Dec 6, 2019, at 3:04 PM, ROGER PIHLAJA wrote: > Graham, > > You?re welcome. I have 25+ years and many thousands of trailering miles on my anti sway damper. I actually wore the friction material out in my 1st unit and am now on my 2nd one. You get a loud scraping sound like worn out disk brake pads when you turn or the trailer sways when its time to replace the anti sway damper. They are not rebuildable. But, the cost of a new unit is so low that buying a new one is not much of an issue. The ball joints on each end of the damper don?t seem to wear out. > > My ball joints and the associated brackets are welded on. 25 years ago, when I 1st installed the anti sway damper, welding was the only option. But, I see new units can be bolted on. My trailer tongue needed a special bracket in order to provide clearance for the trailer?s surge brake master cylinder. Assuming you have this work done by a welding shop, you will still have only ~$125 sunk into the installation. That?s pretty cheap trailering insurance! > > Roger Pihlaja > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > From: Graham Stewart > Sent: Friday, December 6, 2019 3:03 PM > To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard > > Roger: That is very helpful feedback on the anti-sway device. I always wondered about those things. I think they would be well worth the modest price. > Graham > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of ROGER PIHLAJA > Sent: Friday, December 6, 2019 12:43 PM > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard > > Hi All, > > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium?s trailer has had an anti sway damper mounted on the trailer hitch for 25+ years. The below attached picture shows this anti sway damper available from Harbor Freight. The device mounts between the tow bar hitch on the tow vehicle and the trailer tongue. The black body has friction material (i.e. brake pads) that clamps down on the silver part on the right. Clamping pressure is adjusted by turning the black handle on the top of the black body. The silver part is attached via a small extra ball joint on the tow bar alongside of the main hitch ball on the trailer hitch. The black body is attached to the trailer tongue via another ball joint alongside of the hitch. As the trailer sways, the silver part slides in and out of the black body. The clamped friction material turns the rotational momentum of the trailer into heat, thus damping out the swaying. This is absolutely the solution to worry free trailering! It completely eliminates trailer swaying due to crosswinds, semi truck shock waves, sudden turns, road hazards, tire failure, etc. It even helps prevent swaying if there is insufficient tongue weight, although it is still good practice to have at least 10% of the trailer weight on the tongue. It turns trailering into a relaxing experience. > > [cid:image003.png at 01D5AC32.A4FCC970] > > The only downside, is that you must remember to remove the anti sway damper before close quarters maneuvering in the boat yard or at the launch ramp. The anti sway device does not tolerate being jack knifed if the trailer must be turned very sharply. Normally, this is not an issue; but, you need to be aware of the anti sway device before attempting a sharp turn. > > I was able to move S/V Dynamic Equilibrium sufficiently far forward on my trailer such that the rudder and outboard motor can be left in place while trailering. Raising the motor to the top of the mount and lashing it in place prevents movement. There?s enough ?stuff? to rig and unrig while trailering without having to mess around with the motor and the rudder. > > Here?s a weight distribution tip: The 15 gallon water tank weighs ~125 lbs when full. This tank is up in the bow under the V-berth. So, if you are having issues with insufficient tongue weight, try filling the water tank. > > I don?t recommend trailering with anything in the holding tank. Although it would add more tongue weight, there is too much risk of a nasty, smelly spill due to sloshing! > > Roger Pihlaja > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > From: Mitch Mitchell > Sent: Friday, December 6, 2019 8:44 AM > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard > > That?s a great idea Bob! > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Dec 5, 2019, at 10:12 PM, Goodness wrote: >> >> Mitch: I never trail an outboard long distance without a ?motor toter? or better yet removing it from the transom. Repairs to the transom are costly and time consuming. Motors are expensive. The bouncing adds tremendous aging to your motormount. >> A nice solution i have for my trailer is a welded on motormount between the hitch and winch. It wont work for every trailer but the cockpit holds a 9.8 long shaft perfectly. >> I have a nice collection of roadside sailing gear. (Mainsail and boom for a common 18 foot boat in perfect condition, a rudder and tiller, a brand new diesel 5 gallon fuel can, a collapsible canvas bucket, a brand new 3 gallon gasoline can.). Arrive alive and preferably with all of your boat and equipment! >> Good luck! >> >> Bob (palatka) >> >>> On Dec 5, 2019, at 1:17 PM, Mitch Mitchell wrote: >>> >>> ?Thanks for all of the replies. I've driven the trailer on the highway and >>> sway has not been a problem but I've always taken the motor and rudder off >>> and put them in the truck. I'll definitely tie the motor to the railing and >>> I like the idea of also running a strap from the two eyes to under the >>> motor. I will try both. If anyone finds an 8hp Merc on I-95 please let me >>> know. Thanks! MM >>> BTW I've only launched the boat a few times since I haven't had it long and >>> the last time I was bound and determined to get her all the way up on the >>> trailer but to no avail. It seems to have something to do with the ramp >>> angle. I'll check the archives to see if I can learn some tricks for that. >>> >>>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 1:05 PM Mitch Mitchell wrote: >>>> >>>> Yikes! >>>> >>>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 10:17 PM Graham Stewart >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I have done very little towing but the one time I did I was almost >>>>> dragged off the road due to trailer sway. Very scary! I discovered that >>>>> there was insufficient weight on the tongue but also that it was very >>>>> difficult to move the boat any further forward. If I were to go on a longer >>>>> trip I would measure the weight under the tongue once the boat was packed >>>>> and if less than 10% of the total either move weight forward in the cabin >>>>> or remove the motor from the stern. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Graham Stewart >>>>> Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 >>>>> Kingston Ontario >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On >>>>> Behalf Of Art Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 9:50 PM >>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List >>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard >>>>> >>>>> Mitch, What year Rhodes. I originally had a '76, and even with a >>>>> backplate was uneasy on the road.Art >>>>> >>>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 8:55 PM, Mitch Mitchell >>>>> wrote: I?m planning on taking a long road trip with my R22 and wondering >>>>> if those of you who tow do so with an outboard attached to the stern. I >>>>> have an 8hp 2 stroke Merc and a 30 year old mount (image attached). This is >>>>> my first trip with this boat and am picturing myself on I 95 with the motor >>>>> dragging along behind me. I will be towing with a truck camper so nowhere >>>>> to put motor if not on stern. Any suggestions or views would be appreciated, >>>>> >>>>> Mitch >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >>>>> Name: image1.jpeg >>>>> Type: image/jpeg >>>>> Size: 31824 bytes >>>>> Desc: not available >>>>> URL: < >>>>> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20191204/7228515d/attachment.jpeg >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: 687DF483B1C343598D78F6F4D9ACBBB7.png > Type: image/png > Size: 177835 bytes > Desc: 687DF483B1C343598D78F6F4D9ACBBB7.png > URL: > From gstewart8 at cogeco.ca Sat Dec 7 11:44:34 2019 From: gstewart8 at cogeco.ca (Graham Stewart) Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2019 11:44:34 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] placing the boat on trailer In-Reply-To: References: <984109AC-B09A-4A93-92BD-7C1FA9BBBF68@gmail.com> <33E30A16-B610-4033-A5FE-686B632F0174@gmail.com> <00c801d5ac70$2fdaa2f0$8f8fe8d0$@ca> <8A598E71-C09D-4D77-B2B6-527762756465@aol.com> Message-ID: <011f01d5ad1d$9c9c8d60$d5d5a820$@ca> Roger says that placing the boat in the correct location "is an adjustment you do once". I can adjust the bow bracket into what would seem to be the correct position but have had a devil of a time actually placing the boat that far forward. While the boat is still in the water I can draw the bow into the bracket but as the boat is drawn out of the water and the stern lowers onto the bunk there is enormous pressure exerted onto the hull at the forward end of the bunks and as soon as the winch is released the bow springs up and away from the bracket. When I stripped the bottom of paint I found a mass of hairline cracks and permanent depressions on either side of the hull where the front posts of the bunks are located. That didn't seem right to me and now that it has been repaired I am reluctant to risk damaging the hull again. I only tow my boat a few miles to the ramp and back going a low speed so I don't worry about getting the boat forward but if I were to take it on a longer trip at highway speeds I would be much more concerned to get the boat properly balanced on the trailer. Others have mentioned the same problem and I am wondering if those who have solved this problem might give advice on how they balance the boat on the trailer. Thanks, Graham Stewart Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 Kingston Ontario -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of ROGER PIHLAJA Sent: Saturday, December 7, 2019 12:06 AM To: Dana LeTendre; The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard Dana, How many outboards on power boats do you see being trailered down the road? How many do you see with the outboard removed and secured inside the hull? The Rhodes 22 transom is built like a tank. Having the rudder and motor mounted won?t hurt anything. As long as the weight of the motor and rudder don?t affect the trailer tongue weight too much and cause instability on the highway, removing them for trailering is waste of time and energy. Getting the tongue weight correct is simply a matter of moving the boat fore and aft on the bunks until at least 10% of the total weight is on the tongue. It?s an adjustment you do once and it?s done. While it doesn?t hurt anything to remove the rudder and motor, there is plenty involved with rigging and unrigging the boat without messing around with the rudder and motor too. Roger Pihlaja S/V Dynamic Equilibrium From roger_pihlaja at msn.com Sat Dec 7 13:50:11 2019 From: roger_pihlaja at msn.com (ROGER PIHLAJA) Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2019 18:50:11 +0000 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] placing the boat on trailer In-Reply-To: <011f01d5ad1d$9c9c8d60$d5d5a820$@ca> References: <984109AC-B09A-4A93-92BD-7C1FA9BBBF68@gmail.com> <33E30A16-B610-4033-A5FE-686B632F0174@gmail.com> <00c801d5ac70$2fdaa2f0$8f8fe8d0$@ca> <8A598E71-C09D-4D77-B2B6-527762756465@aol.com> , <011f01d5ad1d$9c9c8d60$d5d5a820$@ca> Message-ID: Graham, There should be a means to adjust the vertical position of each of the posts that support the bunks on your trailer. As the boat is moved fore and aft, the shape of the bunks must be adjusted at each support post to conform to the new position and shape of the hull. In your case, it sounds like the front most post needs to be lowered and the rear most post needs to be raised at the very least. You are correct, assuming the trailer is on level ground and there isn?t a lot of weight in the stern, when the trailer bow winch is released, the bow should not spring back from the bracket. If you are uncomfortable attempting these adjustments, I suggest you take the boat on its trailer to a reputable boat dealer. They will have technicians that will position the boat on the trailer for proper tongue weight and then adjust the bunks to fit the hull. They will charge you for this service; but, at least you will be assured the trailer is properly adjusted to fit your boat. It will be money well spent. Roger Pihlaja S/V Dynamic Equilibrium Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Graham Stewart Sent: Saturday, December 7, 2019 11:44 AM To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' Subject: [Rhodes22-list] placing the boat on trailer Roger says that placing the boat in the correct location "is an adjustment you do once". I can adjust the bow bracket into what would seem to be the correct position but have had a devil of a time actually placing the boat that far forward. While the boat is still in the water I can draw the bow into the bracket but as the boat is drawn out of the water and the stern lowers onto the bunk there is enormous pressure exerted onto the hull at the forward end of the bunks and as soon as the winch is released the bow springs up and away from the bracket. When I stripped the bottom of paint I found a mass of hairline cracks and permanent depressions on either side of the hull where the front posts of the bunks are located. That didn't seem right to me and now that it has been repaired I am reluctant to risk damaging the hull again. I only tow my boat a few miles to the ramp and back going a low speed so I don't worry about getting the boat forward but if I were to take it on a longer trip at highway speeds I would be much more concerned to get the boat properly balanced on the trailer. Others have mentioned the same problem and I am wondering if those who have solved this problem might give advice on how they balance the boat on the trailer. Thanks, Graham Stewart Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 Kingston Ontario -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of ROGER PIHLAJA Sent: Saturday, December 7, 2019 12:06 AM To: Dana LeTendre; The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard Dana, How many outboards on power boats do you see being trailered down the road? How many do you see with the outboard removed and secured inside the hull? The Rhodes 22 transom is built like a tank. Having the rudder and motor mounted won?t hurt anything. As long as the weight of the motor and rudder don?t affect the trailer tongue weight too much and cause instability on the highway, removing them for trailering is waste of time and energy. Getting the tongue weight correct is simply a matter of moving the boat fore and aft on the bunks until at least 10% of the total weight is on the tongue. It?s an adjustment you do once and it?s done. While it doesn?t hurt anything to remove the rudder and motor, there is plenty involved with rigging and unrigging the boat without messing around with the rudder and motor too. Roger Pihlaja S/V Dynamic Equilibrium From sloopblueheron at gmail.com Sat Dec 7 14:32:16 2019 From: sloopblueheron at gmail.com (Rick Lange) Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2019 14:32:16 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] placing the boat on trailer In-Reply-To: <011f01d5ad1d$9c9c8d60$d5d5a820$@ca> References: <984109AC-B09A-4A93-92BD-7C1FA9BBBF68@gmail.com> <33E30A16-B610-4033-A5FE-686B632F0174@gmail.com> <00c801d5ac70$2fdaa2f0$8f8fe8d0$@ca> <8A598E71-C09D-4D77-B2B6-527762756465@aol.com> <011f01d5ad1d$9c9c8d60$d5d5a820$@ca> Message-ID: Hi Graham, Do you have a trailer with a tongue extension? If so, you should be able to motor on so the bow hits the fully retracted post at the shallowest of ramps. Then when you pull out with a loose strap, the boat will settle back onto the bunks perfectly. Regards, Rick Lange On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 11:44 AM Graham Stewart wrote: > Roger says that placing the boat in the correct location "is an adjustment > you do once". I can adjust the bow bracket into what would seem to be the > correct position but have had a devil of a time actually placing the boat > that far forward. While the boat is still in the water I can draw the bow > into the bracket but as the boat is drawn out of the water and the stern > lowers onto the bunk there is enormous pressure exerted onto the hull at > the forward end of the bunks and as soon as the winch is released the bow > springs up and away from the bracket. > > When I stripped the bottom of paint I found a mass of hairline cracks and > permanent depressions on either side of the hull where the front posts of > the bunks are located. That didn't seem right to me and now that it has > been repaired I am reluctant to risk damaging the hull again. > > I only tow my boat a few miles to the ramp and back going a low speed so I > don't worry about getting the boat forward but if I were to take it on a > longer trip at highway speeds I would be much more concerned to get the > boat properly balanced on the trailer. > > Others have mentioned the same problem and I am wondering if those who > have solved this problem might give advice on how they balance the boat on > the trailer. > > Thanks, > > Graham Stewart > Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 > Kingston Ontario > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf > Of ROGER PIHLAJA > Sent: Saturday, December 7, 2019 12:06 AM > To: Dana LeTendre; The Rhodes 22 Email List > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard > > Dana, > > How many outboards on power boats do you see being trailered down the > road? How many do you see with the outboard removed and secured inside the > hull? The Rhodes 22 transom is built like a tank. Having the rudder and > motor mounted won?t hurt anything. As long as the weight of the motor and > rudder don?t affect the trailer tongue weight too much and cause > instability on the highway, removing them for trailering is waste of time > and energy. Getting the tongue weight correct is simply a matter of moving > the boat fore and aft on the bunks until at least 10% of the total weight > is on the tongue. It?s an adjustment you do once and it?s done. While it > doesn?t hurt anything to remove the rudder and motor, there is plenty > involved with rigging and unrigging the boat without messing around with > the rudder and motor too. > > Roger Pihlaja > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium > > From mtroy at atlanticbb.net Sat Dec 7 15:05:59 2019 From: mtroy at atlanticbb.net (Mary Lou Troy) Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2019 15:05:59 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] placing the boat on trailer In-Reply-To: <011f01d5ad1d$9c9c8d60$d5d5a820$@ca> References: <984109AC-B09A-4A93-92BD-7C1FA9BBBF68@gmail.com> <33E30A16-B610-4033-A5FE-686B632F0174@gmail.com> <00c801d5ac70$2fdaa2f0$8f8fe8d0$@ca> <8A598E71-C09D-4D77-B2B6-527762756465@aol.com> <011f01d5ad1d$9c9c8d60$d5d5a820$@ca> Message-ID: <838e3380-0ea6-e7e8-4541-9f9f3fc7af29@atlanticbb.net> I did a search in the archives and lo and behold I found the "Fred/Mary Lou" boat recovery technique. I forgot that a departed but fondly remembered Rhodie named Alex had inadvertently named it after us. I've copied a couple of pertinent entries here and given some links to other entries that I found in the search. All are from 2000-2002. This entry from Alex and the next one from me are on the Rhodes owner's site in the FAQ (http://www.rhodes22.org/blew_skies/recovery.html) I will add that whenever we retrieved the boat, we moved the bow stop on the trailer all the way forward to give the bow room to move and then moved it back when the boat was in position. We painted a vertical line on the bow stop arm to mark the spot where the bow stop would rest against the boat if the boat is ideally positioned on the trailer and used this as a check when retrieving the boat to make sure it was where we wanted it. And note that this varies by ramp and probably by trailer - ours was a single axle Triad. Alex said: "Pamela and I used the Fred and Mary Lou technique several times with very good results. They were dry sailors and launched and recovered many more times than most of us. To review: Bring the boat up as far as it will come. We usually have about 6" of the support bunks showing. If we submerge the bunk all the way, the boat floats all over as you mentioned. As one person drives and pulls v-e-r-y- slowly, a second person can crank the winch as the bow comes down from on high. We would move maybe a foot and crank, then another foot and crank and so on. The result the last time we pulled the boat was that the boat was against the stop all the way forward, which I felt was too far forward and we backed her down again and let the boat slip enough to allow the bow stop to be moved 4" from the post. This method works well for our Triad trailer and the R22. As I said, we had the boat all the way forward with no space between the bow stop and winch support post. That probably would be fine, but I think it might give excessive tongue weight at that point. It seems that the launch and recovery procedures might be different based on the trailer. My old Rhodes had a 1987 Triad that was not as difficult to recover and launch as the newer (1996) Triad that supports Blue Daze. I don't recall anything major in the way of differences, but there was something different. It might be that the older trailers let the boat sit a bit lower to the ground than the newer ones?? Alex" and I replied "Wow, what an honor to have a technique named after us! It is, however, patented so you can send the royalties to... Glad to hear it works for others but I truly believe that you have to adapt the technique (ours or others) to the ramp. The ramp at Bowley's is relatively steep which is one of the reasons we developed the (ahem) Fred/Mary Lou technique. For the last haulout of this year the tide was way WAY out. We could drop the centerboard and have it hit bottom long before it was fully deployed. With the tide that far out the angle of the ramp was not nearly as steep as usual. We've never used the tongue extender at Bowley's and didn't this time but we could have, as the tailpipe of the Blazer was bubbling away. We normally have the bunks just breaking the surface of the water. This time, with the Blazer backed as far as we could without it drowning (or giving up and actually using the extender) the best we could do was leave about 6" to 8" showing. Fred was able to winch it all the way forward because the angle was less steep. We did take up a little slack as we pulled her out but not nearly as much as usual because the stern was already mostly supported by the bunks. We've marked the ideal position of the bow support with a bit of red paint. We were right on the money this time and could really tell the difference trailering her home. She was only about an inch and a half further forward than she was last year but what a difference it made in the ride. We also took the rudder off and stowed it in the car and took the anchor out of the lazarette to lighten the load aft. Now that we are taking a slip I guess we'll get out of practice. Mary Lou ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hope this is helpful to someone. There is more at the link above and Roger's and Stan's comments are here: http://www.rhodes22.org/blew_skies/tip001.html? also from the Rhodes owner's FAQ Former Rhodie Rik Sandber had this to say in 2002 On 12/7/2019 11:44 AM, Graham Stewart wrote: > Roger says that placing the boat in the correct location "is an adjustment you do once". I can adjust the bow bracket into what would seem to be the correct position but have had a devil of a time actually placing the boat that far forward. While the boat is still in the water I can draw the bow into the bracket but as the boat is drawn out of the water and the stern lowers onto the bunk there is enormous pressure exerted onto the hull at the forward end of the bunks and as soon as the winch is released the bow springs up and away from the bracket. > > When I stripped the bottom of paint I found a mass of hairline cracks and permanent depressions on either side of the hull where the front posts of the bunks are located. That didn't seem right to me and now that it has been repaired I am reluctant to risk damaging the hull again. > > I only tow my boat a few miles to the ramp and back going a low speed so I don't worry about getting the boat forward but if I were to take it on a longer trip at highway speeds I would be much more concerned to get the boat properly balanced on the trailer. > > Others have mentioned the same problem and I am wondering if those who have solved this problem might give advice on how they balance the boat on the trailer. > > Thanks, > > Graham Stewart > Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 > Kingston Ontario > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of ROGER PIHLAJA > Sent: Saturday, December 7, 2019 12:06 AM > To: Dana LeTendre; The Rhodes 22 Email List > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard > > Dana, > > How many outboards on power boats do you see being trailered down the road? How many do you see with the outboard removed and secured inside the hull? The Rhodes 22 transom is built like a tank. Having the rudder and motor mounted won?t hurt anything. As long as the weight of the motor and rudder don?t affect the trailer tongue weight too much and cause instability on the highway, removing them for trailering is waste of time and energy. Getting the tongue weight correct is simply a matter of moving the boat fore and aft on the bunks until at least 10% of the total weight is on the tongue. It?s an adjustment you do once and it?s done. While it doesn?t hurt anything to remove the rudder and motor, there is plenty involved with rigging and unrigging the boat without messing around with the rudder and motor too. > > Roger Pihlaja > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium > From gstewart8 at cogeco.ca Sat Dec 7 22:57:00 2019 From: gstewart8 at cogeco.ca (Graham Stewart) Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2019 22:57:00 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] placing the boat on trailer In-Reply-To: <838e3380-0ea6-e7e8-4541-9f9f3fc7af29@atlanticbb.net> References: <984109AC-B09A-4A93-92BD-7C1FA9BBBF68@gmail.com> <33E30A16-B610-4033-A5FE-686B632F0174@gmail.com> <00c801d5ac70$2fdaa2f0$8f8fe8d0$@ca> <8A598E71-C09D-4D77-B2B6-527762756465@aol.com> <011f01d5ad1d$9c9c8d60$d5d5a820$@ca> <838e3380-0ea6-e7e8-4541-9f9f3fc7af29@atlanticbb.net> Message-ID: <013d01d5ad7b$8e9cefd0$abd6cf70$@ca> Thanks to all for their feedback on loading the boat on the trailer. Given that I have had the boat for 30 years or so I should have figured this out by now but given that I don't have another 30 years to work on the problem your suggestions are invaluable. Graham -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Mary Lou Troy Sent: Saturday, December 7, 2019 3:06 PM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] placing the boat on trailer I did a search in the archives and lo and behold I found the "Fred/Mary Lou" boat recovery technique. I forgot that a departed but fondly remembered Rhodie named Alex had inadvertently named it after us. I've copied a couple of pertinent entries here and given some links to other entries that I found in the search. All are from 2000-2002. This entry from Alex and the next one from me are on the Rhodes owner's site in the FAQ (http://www.rhodes22.org/blew_skies/recovery.html) I will add that whenever we retrieved the boat, we moved the bow stop on the trailer all the way forward to give the bow room to move and then moved it back when the boat was in position. We painted a vertical line on the bow stop arm to mark the spot where the bow stop would rest against the boat if the boat is ideally positioned on the trailer and used this as a check when retrieving the boat to make sure it was where we wanted it. And note that this varies by ramp and probably by trailer - ours was a single axle Triad. Alex said: "Pamela and I used the Fred and Mary Lou technique several times with very good results. They were dry sailors and launched and recovered many more times than most of us. To review: Bring the boat up as far as it will come. We usually have about 6" of the support bunks showing. If we submerge the bunk all the way, the boat floats all over as you mentioned. As one person drives and pulls v-e-r-y- slowly, a second person can crank the winch as the bow comes down from on high. We would move maybe a foot and crank, then another foot and crank and so on. The result the last time we pulled the boat was that the boat was against the stop all the way forward, which I felt was too far forward and we backed her down again and let the boat slip enough to allow the bow stop to be moved 4" from the post. This method works well for our Triad trailer and the R22. As I said, we had the boat all the way forward with no space between the bow stop and winch support post. That probably would be fine, but I think it might give excessive tongue weight at that point. It seems that the launch and recovery procedures might be different based on the trailer. My old Rhodes had a 1987 Triad that was not as difficult to recover and launch as the newer (1996) Triad that supports Blue Daze. I don't recall anything major in the way of differences, but there was something different. It might be that the older trailers let the boat sit a bit lower to the ground than the newer ones?? Alex" and I replied "Wow, what an honor to have a technique named after us! It is, however, patented so you can send the royalties to... Glad to hear it works for others but I truly believe that you have to adapt the technique (ours or others) to the ramp. The ramp at Bowley's is relatively steep which is one of the reasons we developed the (ahem) Fred/Mary Lou technique. For the last haulout of this year the tide was way WAY out. We could drop the centerboard and have it hit bottom long before it was fully deployed. With the tide that far out the angle of the ramp was not nearly as steep as usual. We've never used the tongue extender at Bowley's and didn't this time but we could have, as the tailpipe of the Blazer was bubbling away. We normally have the bunks just breaking the surface of the water. This time, with the Blazer backed as far as we could without it drowning (or giving up and actually using the extender) the best we could do was leave about 6" to 8" showing. Fred was able to winch it all the way forward because the angle was less steep. We did take up a little slack as we pulled her out but not nearly as much as usual because the stern was already mostly supported by the bunks. We've marked the ideal position of the bow support with a bit of red paint. We were right on the money this time and could really tell the difference trailering her home. She was only about an inch and a half further forward than she was last year but what a difference it made in the ride. We also took the rudder off and stowed it in the car and took the anchor out of the lazarette to lighten the load aft. Now that we are taking a slip I guess we'll get out of practice. Mary Lou ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hope this is helpful to someone. There is more at the link above and Roger's and Stan's comments are here: http://www.rhodes22.org/blew_skies/tip001.html also from the Rhodes owner's FAQ Former Rhodie Rik Sandber had this to say in 2002 On 12/7/2019 11:44 AM, Graham Stewart wrote: > Roger says that placing the boat in the correct location "is an adjustment you do once". I can adjust the bow bracket into what would seem to be the correct position but have had a devil of a time actually placing the boat that far forward. While the boat is still in the water I can draw the bow into the bracket but as the boat is drawn out of the water and the stern lowers onto the bunk there is enormous pressure exerted onto the hull at the forward end of the bunks and as soon as the winch is released the bow springs up and away from the bracket. > > When I stripped the bottom of paint I found a mass of hairline cracks and permanent depressions on either side of the hull where the front posts of the bunks are located. That didn't seem right to me and now that it has been repaired I am reluctant to risk damaging the hull again. > > I only tow my boat a few miles to the ramp and back going a low speed so I don't worry about getting the boat forward but if I were to take it on a longer trip at highway speeds I would be much more concerned to get the boat properly balanced on the trailer. > > Others have mentioned the same problem and I am wondering if those who have solved this problem might give advice on how they balance the boat on the trailer. > > Thanks, > > Graham Stewart > Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 > Kingston Ontario > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of ROGER PIHLAJA > Sent: Saturday, December 7, 2019 12:06 AM > To: Dana LeTendre; The Rhodes 22 Email List > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard > > Dana, > > How many outboards on power boats do you see being trailered down the road? How many do you see with the outboard removed and secured inside the hull? The Rhodes 22 transom is built like a tank. Having the rudder and motor mounted won?t hurt anything. As long as the weight of the motor and rudder don?t affect the trailer tongue weight too much and cause instability on the highway, removing them for trailering is waste of time and energy. Getting the tongue weight correct is simply a matter of moving the boat fore and aft on the bunks until at least 10% of the total weight is on the tongue. It?s an adjustment you do once and it?s done. While it doesn?t hurt anything to remove the rudder and motor, there is plenty involved with rigging and unrigging the boat without messing around with the rudder and motor too. > > Roger Pihlaja > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium > From mtroy at atlanticbb.net Sun Dec 8 10:56:48 2019 From: mtroy at atlanticbb.net (Mary Lou Troy) Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2019 10:56:48 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] placing the boat on trailer In-Reply-To: <838e3380-0ea6-e7e8-4541-9f9f3fc7af29@atlanticbb.net> References: <984109AC-B09A-4A93-92BD-7C1FA9BBBF68@gmail.com> <33E30A16-B610-4033-A5FE-686B632F0174@gmail.com> <00c801d5ac70$2fdaa2f0$8f8fe8d0$@ca> <8A598E71-C09D-4D77-B2B6-527762756465@aol.com> <011f01d5ad1d$9c9c8d60$d5d5a820$@ca> <838e3380-0ea6-e7e8-4541-9f9f3fc7af29@atlanticbb.net> Message-ID: Looks like I left off the last part of the post. It should have continued: Hope this is helpful to someone. There is more at the link above including Roger's and Stan's comments: http://www.rhodes22.org/blew_skies/tip001.html Former Rhodie Rik Sandberg had this to say in 2002. http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/2002-December/004100.html Mary Lou ex Rhodes 22 now the trailerless Rosborough RF-246 Tara Rock Hall, MD On 12/7/2019 3:05 PM, Mary Lou Troy wrote: > I did a search in the archives and lo and behold I found the > "Fred/Mary Lou" boat recovery technique. I forgot that a departed but > fondly remembered Rhodie named Alex had inadvertently named it after > us. I've copied a couple of pertinent entries here and given some > links to other entries that I found in the search. All are from > 2000-2002. > > This entry from Alex and the next one from me are on the Rhodes > owner's site in the FAQ > (http://www.rhodes22.org/blew_skies/recovery.html) > > I will add that whenever we retrieved the boat, we moved the bow stop > on the trailer all the way forward to give the bow room to move and > then moved it back when the boat was in position. We painted a > vertical line on the bow stop arm to mark the spot where the bow stop > would rest against the boat if the boat is ideally positioned on the > trailer and used this as a check when retrieving the boat to make sure > it was where we wanted it. And note that this varies by ramp and > probably by trailer - ours was a single axle Triad. > > Alex said: > "Pamela and I used the Fred and Mary Lou technique several times with > very good results. They were dry sailors and launched and recovered > many more times than most of us. To review: > > Bring the boat up as far as it will come. We usually have about 6" of > the support bunks showing. If we submerge the bunk all the way, the > boat floats all over as you mentioned. > > As one person drives and pulls v-e-r-y- slowly, a second person can > crank the winch as the bow comes down from on high. We would move > maybe a foot and crank, then another foot and crank and so on. The > result the last time we pulled the boat was that the boat was against > the stop all the way forward, which I felt was too far forward and we > backed her down again and let the boat slip enough to allow the bow > stop to be moved 4" from the post. > > This method works well for our Triad trailer and the R22. As I said, > we had the boat all the way forward with no space between the bow stop > and winch support post. That probably would be fine, but I think it > might give excessive tongue weight at that point. > > It seems that the launch and recovery procedures might be different > based on the trailer. My old Rhodes had a 1987 Triad that was not as > difficult to recover and launch as the newer (1996) Triad that > supports Blue Daze. I don't recall anything major in the way of > differences, but there was something different. It might be that the > older trailers let the boat sit a bit lower to the ground than the > newer ones?? > > Alex" > > and I replied > > "Wow, what an honor to have a technique named after us! It is, > however, patented so you can send the royalties to... > > Glad to hear it works for others but I truly believe that you have to > adapt the technique (ours or others) to the ramp. The ramp at Bowley's > is relatively steep which is one of the reasons we developed the > (ahem) Fred/Mary Lou technique. For the last haulout of this year the > tide was way WAY out. We could drop the centerboard and have it hit > bottom long before it was fully deployed. With the tide that far out > the angle of the ramp was not nearly as steep as usual. We've never > used the tongue extender at Bowley's and didn't this time but we could > have, as the tailpipe of the Blazer was bubbling away. We normally > have the bunks just breaking the surface of the water. This time, with > the Blazer backed as far as we could without it drowning (or giving up > and actually using the extender) the best we could do was leave about > 6" to 8" showing. Fred was able to winch it all the way forward > because the angle was less steep. We did take up a little slack as we > pulled her out but not nearly as much as usual because the stern was > already mostly supported by the bunks. > > We've marked the ideal position of the bow support with a bit of red > paint. We were right on the money this time and could really tell the > difference trailering her home. She was only about an inch and a half > further forward than she was last year but what a difference it made > in the ride. We also took the rudder off and stowed it in the car and > took the anchor out of the lazarette to lighten the load aft. > > Now that we are taking a slip I guess we'll get out of practice. > > Mary Lou > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Hope this is helpful to someone. > > There is more at the link above and Roger's and Stan's comments are > here: http://www.rhodes22.org/blew_skies/tip001.html? also from the > Rhodes owner's FAQ > > Former Rhodie Rik Sandber had this to say in 2002 > > > > > On 12/7/2019 11:44 AM, Graham Stewart wrote: >> Roger says that placing the boat in the correct location "is an >> adjustment you do once". I can adjust the bow bracket into what would >> seem to be the correct position but have had a devil of a time >> actually placing the boat that far forward. While the boat is still >> in the water I can draw the bow into the bracket but as the boat is >> drawn out of the water and the stern lowers onto the bunk there is >> enormous pressure exerted onto the hull at the forward end of the >> bunks and as soon as the winch is released the bow springs up and >> away from the bracket. >> ? When I stripped the bottom of paint I found a mass of hairline >> cracks and permanent depressions on either side of the hull where the >> front posts of the bunks are located. That didn't seem right to me >> and now that it has been repaired I am reluctant to risk damaging the >> hull again. >> ? I only tow my boat a few miles to the ramp and back going a low >> speed so I don't worry about getting the boat forward but if I were >> to take it on a longer trip at highway speeds I would be much more >> concerned to get the boat properly balanced on the trailer. >> ? Others have mentioned the same problem and I am wondering if those >> who have solved this problem might give advice on how they balance >> the boat on the trailer. >> ? Thanks, >> ? Graham Stewart >> Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 >> Kingston Ontario >> ? ? ? -----Original Message----- >> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On >> Behalf Of ROGER PIHLAJA >> Sent: Saturday, December 7, 2019 12:06 AM >> To: Dana LeTendre; The Rhodes 22 Email List >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard >> ? Dana, >> ? How many outboards on power boats do you see being trailered down >> the road?? How many do you see with the outboard removed and secured >> inside the hull?? The Rhodes 22 transom is built like a tank.? Having >> the rudder and motor mounted won?t hurt anything.? As long as the >> weight of the motor and rudder don?t affect the trailer tongue weight >> too much and cause instability on the highway, removing them for >> trailering is waste of time and energy.? Getting the tongue weight >> correct is simply a matter of moving the boat fore and aft on the >> bunks until at least 10% of the total weight is on the tongue.? It?s >> an adjustment you do once and it?s done.? While it doesn?t hurt >> anything to remove the rudder and motor, there is plenty involved >> with rigging and unrigging the boat without messing around with the >> rudder and motor too. >> ? Roger Pihlaja >> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium > From roger_pihlaja at msn.com Sun Dec 8 16:21:03 2019 From: roger_pihlaja at msn.com (ROGER PIHLAJA) Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2019 21:21:03 +0000 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] placing the boat on trailer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mary Lou, Thanks for finding and posting that article. I?d forgotten writing it. I still stand behind what it says to do regarding boat recovery. Roger Pihlaja S/V Dynamic Equilibrium Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 8, 2019, at 10:57 AM, Mary Lou Troy wrote: > > ?Looks like I left off the last part of the post. > It should have continued: > > Hope this is helpful to someone. > There is more at the link above including Roger's and Stan's comments: http://www.rhodes22.org/blew_skies/tip001.html > Former Rhodie Rik Sandberg had this to say in 2002. http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/2002-December/004100.html > > Mary Lou > ex Rhodes 22 > now the trailerless Rosborough RF-246 Tara > Rock Hall, MD > > > > > > > > > > >> On 12/7/2019 3:05 PM, Mary Lou Troy wrote: >> I did a search in the archives and lo and behold I found the "Fred/Mary Lou" boat recovery technique. I forgot that a departed but fondly remembered Rhodie named Alex had inadvertently named it after us. I've copied a couple of pertinent entries here and given some links to other entries that I found in the search. All are from 2000-2002. >> >> This entry from Alex and the next one from me are on the Rhodes owner's site in the FAQ (http://www.rhodes22.org/blew_skies/recovery.html) >> >> I will add that whenever we retrieved the boat, we moved the bow stop on the trailer all the way forward to give the bow room to move and then moved it back when the boat was in position. We painted a vertical line on the bow stop arm to mark the spot where the bow stop would rest against the boat if the boat is ideally positioned on the trailer and used this as a check when retrieving the boat to make sure it was where we wanted it. And note that this varies by ramp and probably by trailer - ours was a single axle Triad. >> >> Alex said: >> "Pamela and I used the Fred and Mary Lou technique several times with very good results. They were dry sailors and launched and recovered many more times than most of us. To review: >> >> Bring the boat up as far as it will come. We usually have about 6" of the support bunks showing. If we submerge the bunk all the way, the boat floats all over as you mentioned. >> >> As one person drives and pulls v-e-r-y- slowly, a second person can crank the winch as the bow comes down from on high. We would move maybe a foot and crank, then another foot and crank and so on. The result the last time we pulled the boat was that the boat was against the stop all the way forward, which I felt was too far forward and we backed her down again and let the boat slip enough to allow the bow stop to be moved 4" from the post. >> >> This method works well for our Triad trailer and the R22. As I said, we had the boat all the way forward with no space between the bow stop and winch support post. That probably would be fine, but I think it might give excessive tongue weight at that point. >> >> It seems that the launch and recovery procedures might be different based on the trailer. My old Rhodes had a 1987 Triad that was not as difficult to recover and launch as the newer (1996) Triad that supports Blue Daze. I don't recall anything major in the way of differences, but there was something different. It might be that the older trailers let the boat sit a bit lower to the ground than the newer ones?? >> >> Alex" >> >> and I replied >> >> "Wow, what an honor to have a technique named after us! It is, however, patented so you can send the royalties to... >> >> Glad to hear it works for others but I truly believe that you have to adapt the technique (ours or others) to the ramp. The ramp at Bowley's is relatively steep which is one of the reasons we developed the (ahem) Fred/Mary Lou technique. For the last haulout of this year the tide was way WAY out. We could drop the centerboard and have it hit bottom long before it was fully deployed. With the tide that far out the angle of the ramp was not nearly as steep as usual. We've never used the tongue extender at Bowley's and didn't this time but we could have, as the tailpipe of the Blazer was bubbling away. We normally have the bunks just breaking the surface of the water. This time, with the Blazer backed as far as we could without it drowning (or giving up and actually using the extender) the best we could do was leave about 6" to 8" showing. Fred was able to winch it all the way forward because the angle was less steep. We did take up a little slack as we pulled her out but not nearly as much as usual because the stern was already mostly supported by the bunks. >> >> We've marked the ideal position of the bow support with a bit of red paint. We were right on the money this time and could really tell the difference trailering her home. She was only about an inch and a half further forward than she was last year but what a difference it made in the ride. We also took the rudder off and stowed it in the car and took the anchor out of the lazarette to lighten the load aft. >> >> Now that we are taking a slip I guess we'll get out of practice. >> >> Mary Lou >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> Hope this is helpful to someone. >> >> There is more at the link above and Roger's and Stan's comments are here: http://www.rhodes22.org/blew_skies/tip001.html also from the Rhodes owner's FAQ >> >> Former Rhodie Rik Sandber had this to say in 2002 >> >> >> >> >>> On 12/7/2019 11:44 AM, Graham Stewart wrote: >>> Roger says that placing the boat in the correct location "is an adjustment you do once". I can adjust the bow bracket into what would seem to be the correct position but have had a devil of a time actually placing the boat that far forward. While the boat is still in the water I can draw the bow into the bracket but as the boat is drawn out of the water and the stern lowers onto the bunk there is enormous pressure exerted onto the hull at the forward end of the bunks and as soon as the winch is released the bow springs up and away from the bracket. >>> When I stripped the bottom of paint I found a mass of hairline cracks and permanent depressions on either side of the hull where the front posts of the bunks are located. That didn't seem right to me and now that it has been repaired I am reluctant to risk damaging the hull again. >>> I only tow my boat a few miles to the ramp and back going a low speed so I don't worry about getting the boat forward but if I were to take it on a longer trip at highway speeds I would be much more concerned to get the boat properly balanced on the trailer. >>> Others have mentioned the same problem and I am wondering if those who have solved this problem might give advice on how they balance the boat on the trailer. >>> Thanks, >>> Graham Stewart >>> Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 >>> Kingston Ontario >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of ROGER PIHLAJA >>> Sent: Saturday, December 7, 2019 12:06 AM >>> To: Dana LeTendre; The Rhodes 22 Email List >>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard >>> Dana, >>> How many outboards on power boats do you see being trailered down the road? How many do you see with the outboard removed and secured inside the hull? The Rhodes 22 transom is built like a tank. Having the rudder and motor mounted won?t hurt anything. As long as the weight of the motor and rudder don?t affect the trailer tongue weight too much and cause instability on the highway, removing them for trailering is waste of time and energy. Getting the tongue weight correct is simply a matter of moving the boat fore and aft on the bunks until at least 10% of the total weight is on the tongue. It?s an adjustment you do once and it?s done. While it doesn?t hurt anything to remove the rudder and motor, there is plenty involved with rigging and unrigging the boat without messing around with the rudder and motor too. >>> Roger Pihlaja >>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium >> > From alexis.seigneurin at gmail.com Sun Dec 8 19:55:18 2019 From: alexis.seigneurin at gmail.com (Alexis Seigneurin) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 00:55:18 +0000 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Water tank Message-ID: Hi there, Water doesn?t flow properly from the faucet in my boat. The pump seems to be working fine, but I suspect the water intake is clogged somehow. Well, that?s problem 1, and problem 2 is that I now have a tank full of water that I need to empty before it gets too cold, and I can?t seem to find a way to open the tank to stick a hose in there and use a transfer pump. Looking at the tank, I am seeing a large fitting (3-4 inches wide) with 6-7 screws. Any idea what this is? Going back to problem 1, you can see on the picture attached a fitting that looks like it?s made of aluminum (top right of the picture). Is this a tube that goes to the bottom of the tank? I am unable to unscrew it. Is this bonded to the tank? Should I consider replacing the tank altogether? Water was very stinky before the whole thing clogged up. I am thinking something grew in there... Thanks, Alexis [Image] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1695965 bytes Desc: Image.jpeg URL: From jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com Sun Dec 8 20:50:39 2019 From: jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com (Jesse Shumaker) Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2019 18:50:39 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Long term cruising stowage In-Reply-To: <687185153.1412567.1575267000653@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1575244164482-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <687185153.1412567.1575267000653@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1575856239250-0.post@n5.nabble.com> James, I looked a bit more at the one way scuppers online and it appears that they install on the outside of the hull and would need to be attached with screws. I'm reluctant to add any holes to the hull below the water line for the mounting screws. Did you add a one way scupper to your boat? If so, could you mention what model and how you installed that? Thanks -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ From jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com Sun Dec 8 21:00:55 2019 From: jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com (Jesse Shumaker) Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2019 19:00:55 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Rhodes22-list] board at front of cockpit below companionway Message-ID: <1575856855894-0.post@n5.nabble.com> There is a board at the front of the cockpit just above the sole and below the companionway. The area in front of it is slightly raised. Is there a specific purpose for this board? The placement seems deliberate and I'm guessing there is a specific reason for it that I haven't figured out yet. This isn't causing any problems, but I was just curious. There are so many features on the boat that I'm still learning. Thanks -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ From snstaum at gmail.com Sun Dec 8 21:30:32 2019 From: snstaum at gmail.com (Stephen Staum) Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2019 21:30:32 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] board at front of cockpit below companionway In-Reply-To: <1575856855894-0.post@n5.nabble.com> References: <1575856855894-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Message-ID: This is where you stow the centerboard line (if you roll it up it stows neatly in the slot). *Stephen Staum* *s/v Carol Lee 2* *Needham, MA* On Sun, Dec 8, 2019 at 8:45 PM Jesse Shumaker < jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com> wrote: > There is a board at the front of the cockpit just above the sole and below > the companionway. The area in front of it is slightly raised. Is there a > specific purpose for this board? The placement seems deliberate and I'm > guessing there is a specific reason for it that I haven't figured out yet. > This isn't causing any problems, but I was just curious. There are so many > features on the boat that I'm still learning. Thanks > > > > > > > -- > Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ > From shawn.sustain at gmail.com Sun Dec 8 21:38:17 2019 From: shawn.sustain at gmail.com (Shawn Boles) Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2019 18:38:17 -0800 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] board at front of cockpit below companionway In-Reply-To: References: <1575856855894-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Message-ID: Agreed, although I just flake the line in the slot. Cheers, Shawn s/v Sweet Baboo On Sun, Dec 8, 2019, 6:30 PM Stephen Staum wrote: > This is where you stow the centerboard line (if you roll it up it stows > neatly in the slot). > > > *Stephen Staum* > *s/v Carol Lee 2* > > *Needham, MA* > > > On Sun, Dec 8, 2019 at 8:45 PM Jesse Shumaker < > jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com> wrote: > > > There is a board at the front of the cockpit just above the sole and > below > > the companionway. The area in front of it is slightly raised. Is there > a > > specific purpose for this board? The placement seems deliberate and I'm > > guessing there is a specific reason for it that I haven't figured out > yet. > > This isn't causing any problems, but I was just curious. There are so > many > > features on the boat that I'm still learning. Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ > > > From gstewart8 at cogeco.ca Sun Dec 8 22:21:42 2019 From: gstewart8 at cogeco.ca (Graham Stewart) Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2019 22:21:42 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Water tank In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <017101d5ae3f$c9fad7d0$5df08770$@ca> Alexis: You might get and install a tank cleanout Kit (https://www.defender.com/category.jsp?name=tank-fitting-kits&path=-1|51|223 4299&id=2234304 ). That would give you a new 3" hole with removable cap. Graham -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Alexis Seigneurin Sent: Sunday, December 8, 2019 7:55 PM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Water tank Hi there, Water doesn't flow properly from the faucet in my boat. The pump seems to be working fine, but I suspect the water intake is clogged somehow. Well, that's problem 1, and problem 2 is that I now have a tank full of water that I need to empty before it gets too cold, and I can't seem to find a way to open the tank to stick a hose in there and use a transfer pump. Looking at the tank, I am seeing a large fitting (3-4 inches wide) with 6-7 screws. Any idea what this is? Going back to problem 1, you can see on the picture attached a fitting that looks like it's made of aluminum (top right of the picture). Is this a tube that goes to the bottom of the tank? I am unable to unscrew it. Is this bonded to the tank? Should I consider replacing the tank altogether? Water was very stinky before the whole thing clogged up. I am thinking something grew in there... Thanks, Alexis [Image] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1695965 bytes Desc: Image.jpeg URL: From jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com Mon Dec 9 07:37:01 2019 From: jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com (Jesse Shumaker) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 05:37:01 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Rhodes22-list] board at front of cockpit below companionway In-Reply-To: References: <1575856855894-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1575895021405-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Thanks Stephen and Shawn. I had done that sometimes but not when I had taken this photo. For some reason, I thought there may be more to it than that. -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ From jfn302 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 9 09:34:10 2019 From: jfn302 at yahoo.com (James Nichols) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 14:34:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Long term cruising stowage In-Reply-To: <1575856239250-0.post@n5.nabble.com> References: <1575244164482-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <687185153.1412567.1575267000653@mail.yahoo.com> <1575856239250-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Message-ID: <663596959.3594120.1575902050949@mail.yahoo.com> Jesse, I haven't installed them myself.? It was on my "before she goes in the water" list of things to install. There is an alternate solution that would work for you.? An in-line check value would allow the same type of protection without holes in the hull.?? This one works for both 1" and 1 1/2" drain hose.https://amzn.to/2Rz4XSX James On Sunday, December 8, 2019, 07:34:55 PM CST, Jesse Shumaker wrote: James, I looked a bit more at the one way scuppers online and it appears that they install on the outside of the hull and would need to be attached with screws.? I'm reluctant to add any holes to the hull below the water line for the mounting screws.? Did you add a one way scupper to your boat?? If so, could you mention what model and how you installed that?? Thanks -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ From alexis.seigneurin at gmail.com Mon Dec 9 09:51:18 2019 From: alexis.seigneurin at gmail.com (Alexis Seigneurin) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 14:51:18 +0000 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Water tank In-Reply-To: <017101d5ae3f$c9fad7d0$5df08770$@ca> References: , <017101d5ae3f$c9fad7d0$5df08770$@ca> Message-ID: Oh, that?s a nice idea. Thanks Graham! ________________________________ From: Rhodes22-list on behalf of Graham Stewart Sent: Sunday, December 8, 2019 10:21 PM To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Water tank Alexis: You might get and install a tank cleanout Kit (https://www.defender.com/category.jsp?name=tank-fitting-kits&path=-1|51|223 4299&id=2234304 ). That would give you a new 3" hole with removable cap. Graham -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Alexis Seigneurin Sent: Sunday, December 8, 2019 7:55 PM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Water tank Hi there, Water doesn't flow properly from the faucet in my boat. The pump seems to be working fine, but I suspect the water intake is clogged somehow. Well, that's problem 1, and problem 2 is that I now have a tank full of water that I need to empty before it gets too cold, and I can't seem to find a way to open the tank to stick a hose in there and use a transfer pump. Looking at the tank, I am seeing a large fitting (3-4 inches wide) with 6-7 screws. Any idea what this is? Going back to problem 1, you can see on the picture attached a fitting that looks like it's made of aluminum (top right of the picture). Is this a tube that goes to the bottom of the tank? I am unable to unscrew it. Is this bonded to the tank? Should I consider replacing the tank altogether? Water was very stinky before the whole thing clogged up. I am thinking something grew in there... Thanks, Alexis [Image] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1695965 bytes Desc: Image.jpeg URL: From mike at traildesign.com Mon Dec 9 10:13:29 2019 From: mike at traildesign.com (Mike Riter) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 10:13:29 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Water tank In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That large fitting with the screws looks like a sending unit for measuring how much water is in the tank. Its almost exactly like one I have on a piece of equipment for measuring fuel. The screw in the middle would attach to a wire which is then attached to the gauge. The fitting also looks suspiciously like a fuel line port. In which case it would be attached to a tube that draws from the bottom of the tank. Is it possible someone used a (hopefully new) fuel tank as a water tank? Michael Riter SV Emma B mike at traildesign.com On Sun, Dec 8, 2019 at 7:55 PM Alexis Seigneurin < alexis.seigneurin at gmail.com> wrote: > Hi there, > > Water doesn?t flow properly from the faucet in my boat. The pump seems to > be working fine, but I suspect the water intake is clogged somehow. > > Well, that?s problem 1, and problem 2 is that I now have a tank full of > water that I need to empty before it gets too cold, and I can?t seem to > find a way to open the tank to stick a hose in there and use a transfer > pump. > > Looking at the tank, I am seeing a large fitting (3-4 inches wide) with > 6-7 screws. Any idea what this is? > > Going back to problem 1, you can see on the picture attached a fitting > that looks like it?s made of aluminum (top right of the picture). Is this a > tube that goes to the bottom of the tank? I am unable to unscrew it. Is > this bonded to the tank? > > Should I consider replacing the tank altogether? Water was very stinky > before the whole thing clogged up. I am thinking something grew in there... > > Thanks, > Alexis > [Image] > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: Image.jpeg > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 1695965 bytes > Desc: Image.jpeg > URL: < > http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20191209/3fcb7020/attachment.jpeg > > > From alexis.seigneurin at gmail.com Mon Dec 9 10:22:14 2019 From: alexis.seigneurin at gmail.com (Alexis Seigneurin) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 15:22:14 +0000 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Water tank In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Mike, that is exactly what I had in mind when seeing this. I saw this type of installation on fuel tanks and was wondering if that was normal on a water tank. For a water tank, I would expect the pump to be connected to a fitting at the bottom of the tank, not at the top... Alexis ________________________________ From: Rhodes22-list on behalf of Mike Riter Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 10:14 AM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Water tank That large fitting with the screws looks like a sending unit for measuring how much water is in the tank. Its almost exactly like one I have on a piece of equipment for measuring fuel. The screw in the middle would attach to a wire which is then attached to the gauge. The fitting also looks suspiciously like a fuel line port. In which case it would be attached to a tube that draws from the bottom of the tank. Is it possible someone used a (hopefully new) fuel tank as a water tank? Michael Riter SV Emma B mike at traildesign.com On Sun, Dec 8, 2019 at 7:55 PM Alexis Seigneurin < alexis.seigneurin at gmail.com> wrote: > Hi there, > > Water doesn?t flow properly from the faucet in my boat. The pump seems to > be working fine, but I suspect the water intake is clogged somehow. > > Well, that?s problem 1, and problem 2 is that I now have a tank full of > water that I need to empty before it gets too cold, and I can?t seem to > find a way to open the tank to stick a hose in there and use a transfer > pump. > > Looking at the tank, I am seeing a large fitting (3-4 inches wide) with > 6-7 screws. Any idea what this is? > > Going back to problem 1, you can see on the picture attached a fitting > that looks like it?s made of aluminum (top right of the picture). Is this a > tube that goes to the bottom of the tank? I am unable to unscrew it. Is > this bonded to the tank? > > Should I consider replacing the tank altogether? Water was very stinky > before the whole thing clogged up. I am thinking something grew in there... > > Thanks, > Alexis > [Image] > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: Image.jpeg > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 1695965 bytes > Desc: Image.jpeg > URL: < > http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20191209/3fcb7020/attachment.jpeg > > > From luis.guzman.ve at gmail.com Mon Dec 9 11:10:26 2019 From: luis.guzman.ve at gmail.com (luis.guzman.ve) Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2019 11:10:26 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Long term cruising stowage In-Reply-To: <663596959.3594120.1575902050949@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5dee71f4.1c69fb81.6f1d9.0c20@mx.google.com> A check valve requires some pressure to operate. I'm not sure that this would work.Luis GuzmanS/V AquetxaliSent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device -------- Original message --------From: James Nichols via Rhodes22-list Date: 12/9/19 9:34 AM (GMT-05:00) To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Long term cruising stowage Jesse,I haven't installed them myself.? It was on my "before she goes in the water" list of things to install.There is an alternate solution that would work for you.? An in-line check value would allow the same type of protection without holes in the hull.??This one works for both 1" and 1 1/2" drain hose.https://amzn.to/2Rz4XSXJames??? On Sunday, December 8, 2019, 07:34:55 PM CST, Jesse Shumaker wrote:? James, I looked a bit more at the one way scuppers online and it appears thatthey install on the outside of the hull and would need to be attached withscrews.? I'm reluctant to add any holes to the hull below the water line forthe mounting screws.? Did you add a one way scupper to your boat?? If so,could you mention what model and how you installed that?? Thanks--Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/? From gstewart8 at cogeco.ca Mon Dec 9 11:13:04 2019 From: gstewart8 at cogeco.ca (Graham Stewart) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 11:13:04 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Water tank In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <019a01d5aeab$8b88b2d0$a29a1870$@ca> Alexis: The pump need not be at the bottom of the tank and, personally, I would prefer that it is not. Most systems that I am familiar with have the pump built into the faucet - whether manual or electric. I just use a large water-designated jerry can with a tube that goes to the bottom of the tank. I don't need a gauge because I can see the tank. It is held in place with a strap so to clean it or to store it over the winter I just take it into the house. I think that this might be one of those situations where simple is better - depending, of course, on your circumstances and use. It looks to me like you have a perfectly good tank that just needs a thorough cleaning. If the water gauge system installed in the tank is not being used, I would be tempted to remove it and install the cleanout in its place. The gauge hardwareis just a place for crud to get deposited. Graham -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Alexis Seigneurin Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 10:22 AM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Water tank Mike, that is exactly what I had in mind when seeing this. I saw this type of installation on fuel tanks and was wondering if that was normal on a water tank. For a water tank, I would expect the pump to be connected to a fitting at the bottom of the tank, not at the top... Alexis ________________________________ From: Rhodes22-list on behalf of Mike Riter Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 10:14 AM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Water tank That large fitting with the screws looks like a sending unit for measuring how much water is in the tank. Its almost exactly like one I have on a piece of equipment for measuring fuel. The screw in the middle would attach to a wire which is then attached to the gauge. The fitting also looks suspiciously like a fuel line port. In which case it would be attached to a tube that draws from the bottom of the tank. Is it possible someone used a (hopefully new) fuel tank as a water tank? Michael Riter SV Emma B mike at traildesign.com On Sun, Dec 8, 2019 at 7:55 PM Alexis Seigneurin < alexis.seigneurin at gmail.com> wrote: > Hi there, > > Water doesn't flow properly from the faucet in my boat. The pump seems to > be working fine, but I suspect the water intake is clogged somehow. > > Well, that's problem 1, and problem 2 is that I now have a tank full of > water that I need to empty before it gets too cold, and I can't seem to > find a way to open the tank to stick a hose in there and use a transfer > pump. > > Looking at the tank, I am seeing a large fitting (3-4 inches wide) with > 6-7 screws. Any idea what this is? > > Going back to problem 1, you can see on the picture attached a fitting > that looks like it's made of aluminum (top right of the picture). Is this a > tube that goes to the bottom of the tank? I am unable to unscrew it. Is > this bonded to the tank? > > Should I consider replacing the tank altogether? Water was very stinky > before the whole thing clogged up. I am thinking something grew in there... > > Thanks, > Alexis > [Image] > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: Image.jpeg > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 1695965 bytes > Desc: Image.jpeg > URL: < > http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20191209/3fcb7020/at tachment.jpeg > > > From jfn302 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 9 11:31:39 2019 From: jfn302 at yahoo.com (James Nichols) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 16:31:39 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Rhodes22-list] placing the boat on trailer References: <744729604.3361209.1575909099123.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <744729604.3361209.1575909099123@mail.yahoo.com> I have found that the boat doesn't need tp be perfectly snugged up to the bow rest.? As long as my boat was within a few inches of it, it went down the road without problem.? When it was more than 6 inches back, I noticed that the trailer began to sway. Typically I load and unload the boat myself, so I've worked out just how close I need to get the boat to the trailer's bow rest for it to ride correctly. because snugging it up in the water always seems to be over tight when i pull the trailer out of the water. Ever since I discovered that I didn't have to have the bow resting inside the trailer bow rest perfectly, loading has gotten easier.? My biggest problem that I struggle with now is when ramps are deep and the boat wants to drift sideways while I am in the truck pulling forward. James On Sunday, December 8, 2019, 03:21:15 PM CST, ROGER PIHLAJA wrote: Mary Lou, Thanks for finding and posting that article.? I?d forgotten writing it.? I still stand behind what it says to do regarding boat recovery. Roger Pihlaja S/V Dynamic Equilibrium Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 8, 2019, at 10:57 AM, Mary Lou Troy wrote: > > ?Looks like I left off the last part of the post. > It should have continued: > > Hope this is helpful to someone. > There is more at the link above including Roger's and Stan's comments: http://www.rhodes22.org/blew_skies/tip001.html > Former Rhodie Rik Sandberg had this to say in 2002. http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/2002-December/004100.html > > Mary Lou > ex Rhodes 22 > now the trailerless Rosborough RF-246 Tara > Rock Hall, MD > > > > > > > > > > >> On 12/7/2019 3:05 PM, Mary Lou Troy wrote: >> I did a search in the archives and lo and behold I found the "Fred/Mary Lou" boat recovery technique. I forgot that a departed but fondly remembered Rhodie named Alex had inadvertently named it after us. I've copied a couple of pertinent entries here and given some links to other entries that I found in the search. All are from 2000-2002. >> >> This entry from Alex and the next one from me are on the Rhodes owner's site in the FAQ (http://www.rhodes22.org/blew_skies/recovery.html) >> >> I will add that whenever we retrieved the boat, we moved the bow stop on the trailer all the way forward to give the bow room to move and then moved it back when the boat was in position. We painted a vertical line on the bow stop arm to mark the spot where the bow stop would rest against the boat if the boat is ideally positioned on the trailer and used this as a check when retrieving the boat to make sure it was where we wanted it. And note that this varies by ramp and probably by trailer - ours was a single axle Triad. >> >> Alex said: >> "Pamela and I used the Fred and Mary Lou technique several times with very good results. They were dry sailors and launched and recovered many more times than most of us. To review: >> >> Bring the boat up as far as it will come. We usually have about 6" of the support bunks showing. If we submerge the bunk all the way, the boat floats all over as you mentioned. >> >> As one person drives and pulls v-e-r-y- slowly, a second person can crank the winch as the bow comes down from on high. We would move maybe a foot and crank, then another foot and crank and so on. The result the last time we pulled the boat was that the boat was against the stop all the way forward, which I felt was too far forward and we backed her down again and let the boat slip enough to allow the bow stop to be moved 4" from the post. >> >> This method works well for our Triad trailer and the R22. As I said, we had the boat all the way forward with no space between the bow stop and winch support post. That probably would be fine, but I think it might give excessive tongue weight at that point. >> >> It seems that the launch and recovery procedures might be different based on the trailer. My old Rhodes had a 1987 Triad that was not as difficult to recover and launch as the newer (1996) Triad that supports Blue Daze. I don't recall anything major in the way of differences, but there was something different. It might be that the older trailers let the boat sit a bit lower to the ground than the newer ones?? >> >> Alex" >> >> and I replied >> >> "Wow, what an honor to have a technique named after us! It is, however, patented so you can send the royalties to... >> >> Glad to hear it works for others but I truly believe that you have to adapt the technique (ours or others) to the ramp. The ramp at Bowley's is relatively steep which is one of the reasons we developed the (ahem) Fred/Mary Lou technique. For the last haulout of this year the tide was way WAY out. We could drop the centerboard and have it hit bottom long before it was fully deployed. With the tide that far out the angle of the ramp was not nearly as steep as usual. We've never used the tongue extender at Bowley's and didn't this time but we could have, as the tailpipe of the Blazer was bubbling away. We normally have the bunks just breaking the surface of the water. This time, with the Blazer backed as far as we could without it drowning (or giving up and actually using the extender) the best we could do was leave about 6" to 8" showing. Fred was able to winch it all the way forward because the angle was less steep. We did take up a little slack as we pulled her out but not nearly as much as usual because the stern was already mostly supported by the bunks. >> >> We've marked the ideal position of the bow support with a bit of red paint. We were right on the money this time and could really tell the difference trailering her home. She was only about an inch and a half further forward than she was last year but what a difference it made in the ride. We also took the rudder off and stowed it in the car and took the anchor out of the lazarette to lighten the load aft. >> >> Now that we are taking a slip I guess we'll get out of practice. >> >> Mary Lou >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> Hope this is helpful to someone. >> >> There is more at the link above and Roger's and Stan's comments are here: http://www.rhodes22.org/blew_skies/tip001.html also from the Rhodes owner's FAQ >> >> Former Rhodie Rik Sandber had this to say in 2002 >> >> >> >> >>> On 12/7/2019 11:44 AM, Graham Stewart wrote: >>> Roger says that placing the boat in the correct location "is an adjustment you do once". I can adjust the bow bracket into what would seem to be the correct position but have had a devil of a time actually placing the boat that far forward. While the boat is still in the water I can draw the bow into the bracket but as the boat is drawn out of the water and the stern lowers onto the bunk there is enormous pressure exerted onto the hull at the forward end of the bunks and as soon as the winch is released the bow springs up and away from the bracket. >>>? When I stripped the bottom of paint I found a mass of hairline cracks and permanent depressions on either side of the hull where the front posts of the bunks are located. That didn't seem right to me and now that it has been repaired I am reluctant to risk damaging the hull again. >>>? I only tow my boat a few miles to the ramp and back going a low speed so I don't worry about getting the boat forward but if I were to take it on a longer trip at highway speeds I would be much more concerned to get the boat properly balanced on the trailer. >>>? Others have mentioned the same problem and I am wondering if those who have solved this problem might give advice on how they balance the boat on the trailer. >>>? Thanks, >>>? Graham Stewart >>> Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 >>> Kingston Ontario >>>? ? ? -----Original Message----- >>> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of ROGER PIHLAJA >>> Sent: Saturday, December 7, 2019 12:06 AM >>> To: Dana LeTendre; The Rhodes 22 Email List >>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard >>>? Dana, >>>? How many outboards on power boats do you see being trailered down the road?? How many do you see with the outboard removed and secured inside the hull?? The Rhodes 22 transom is built like a tank.? Having the rudder and motor mounted won?t hurt anything.? As long as the weight of the motor and rudder don?t affect the trailer tongue weight too much and cause instability on the highway, removing them for trailering is waste of time and energy.? Getting the tongue weight correct is simply a matter of moving the boat fore and aft on the bunks until at least 10% of the total weight is on the tongue.? It?s an adjustment you do once and it?s done.? While it doesn?t hurt anything to remove the rudder and motor, there is plenty involved with rigging and unrigging the boat without messing around with the rudder and motor too. >>>? Roger Pihlaja >>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium >> > From mweisner at ebsmed.com Mon Dec 9 11:55:31 2019 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 11:55:31 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Water tank In-Reply-To: <019a01d5aeab$8b88b2d0$a29a1870$@ca> References: <019a01d5aeab$8b88b2d0$a29a1870$@ca> Message-ID: <015201d5aeb1$782c47f0$6884d7d0$@ebsmed.com> The fitting is usually at the bottom of the tank unless there is a pickup tube on the inside of the tank that reaches the bottom. Mike s/v Wind Lass ('91) Nissequogue River, NY -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of Graham Stewart Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 11:13 AM To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Water tank Alexis: The pump need not be at the bottom of the tank and, personally, I would prefer that it is not. Most systems that I am familiar with have the pump built into the faucet - whether manual or electric. I just use a large water-designated jerry can with a tube that goes to the bottom of the tank. I don't need a gauge because I can see the tank. It is held in place with a strap so to clean it or to store it over the winter I just take it into the house. I think that this might be one of those situations where simple is better - depending, of course, on your circumstances and use. It looks to me like you have a perfectly good tank that just needs a thorough cleaning. If the water gauge system installed in the tank is not being used, I would be tempted to remove it and install the cleanout in its place. The gauge hardwareis just a place for crud to get deposited. Graham -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Alexis Seigneurin Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 10:22 AM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Water tank Mike, that is exactly what I had in mind when seeing this. I saw this type of installation on fuel tanks and was wondering if that was normal on a water tank. For a water tank, I would expect the pump to be connected to a fitting at the bottom of the tank, not at the top... Alexis ________________________________ From: Rhodes22-list on behalf of Mike Riter Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 10:14 AM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Water tank That large fitting with the screws looks like a sending unit for measuring how much water is in the tank. Its almost exactly like one I have on a piece of equipment for measuring fuel. The screw in the middle would attach to a wire which is then attached to the gauge. The fitting also looks suspiciously like a fuel line port. In which case it would be attached to a tube that draws from the bottom of the tank. Is it possible someone used a (hopefully new) fuel tank as a water tank? Michael Riter SV Emma B mike at traildesign.com On Sun, Dec 8, 2019 at 7:55 PM Alexis Seigneurin < alexis.seigneurin at gmail.com> wrote: > Hi there, > > Water doesn't flow properly from the faucet in my boat. The pump seems > to be working fine, but I suspect the water intake is clogged somehow. > > Well, that's problem 1, and problem 2 is that I now have a tank full > of water that I need to empty before it gets too cold, and I can't > seem to find a way to open the tank to stick a hose in there and use a > transfer pump. > > Looking at the tank, I am seeing a large fitting (3-4 inches wide) > with > 6-7 screws. Any idea what this is? > > Going back to problem 1, you can see on the picture attached a fitting > that looks like it's made of aluminum (top right of the picture). Is > this a > tube that goes to the bottom of the tank? I am unable to unscrew it. > Is this bonded to the tank? > > Should I consider replacing the tank altogether? Water was very stinky > before the whole thing clogged up. I am thinking something grew in there... > > Thanks, > Alexis > [Image] > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was > scrubbed... > Name: Image.jpeg > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 1695965 bytes > Desc: Image.jpeg > URL: < > http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20191209/3fcb7020/at tachment.jpeg > > > From joedempsey at hughes.net Mon Dec 9 12:48:37 2019 From: joedempsey at hughes.net (Joe Dempsey) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 10:48:37 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Rhodes22-list] cockpit filler planks for outdoor sleeping In-Reply-To: <1574388039532-0.post@n5.nabble.com> References: <1574388039532-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1575913717633-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Just viewed your photos. Nice job on the cockpit fillers. My R22 came with 1/2" MDO boards supported with legs in the middle. See photo. Very awkward to put in place. Is the 3/4" okay without sagging? I think i'd like to switch. At least I've already got templates! ----- Joe Dempsey s/v Respite Rhodes 22 1989/2005 Deltaville,VA -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ From joedempsey at hughes.net Mon Dec 9 13:44:03 2019 From: joedempsey at hughes.net (Joe Dempsey) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 11:44:03 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Water tank In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1575917043198-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Alex, First of all, from reading on the List, there seem to be as many different water tanks as there are R22s! Mine is, of all things, a plastic Rubbermaid storage box!. Yours seems to be a more substantial and APPROVED type of container. I'd consider changing the pump. They're not expensive. You can probably get the old one out much easier, test it and if needed change it out. ----- Joe Dempsey s/v Respite Rhodes 22 1989/2005 Deltaville,VA -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ From scranevmd at verizon.net Mon Dec 9 13:47:50 2019 From: scranevmd at verizon.net (scranevmd at verizon.net) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 13:47:50 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Unsubscribe References: <011f01d5aec1$2897b610$79c72230$.ref@verizon.net> Message-ID: <011f01d5aec1$2897b610$79c72230$@verizon.net> Could someone remind me as to how I unsubscribe from this list. I sold my boat and thought I would enjoy continuing to read postings, but they are just too numerous now. Susan From cjbrooke at ymail.com Mon Dec 9 14:08:37 2019 From: cjbrooke at ymail.com (Cheryl Brooke) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 12:08:37 -0700 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Unsubscribe In-Reply-To: <011f01d5aec1$2897b610$79c72230$@verizon.net> References: <011f01d5aec1$2897b610$79c72230$.ref@verizon.net> <011f01d5aec1$2897b610$79c72230$@verizon.net> Message-ID: <6EA3B4D7-6683-4EC4-8C53-0861DF719097@ymail.com> Me too! I would like to unsubscribe Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 9, 2019, at 11:47 AM, Susan via Rhodes22-list wrote: > > Could someone remind me as to how I unsubscribe from this list. I sold my > boat and thought I would enjoy continuing to read postings, but they are > just too numerous now. > > Susan > From peter at sunnybeeches.com Mon Dec 9 14:09:54 2019 From: peter at sunnybeeches.com (Peter Nyberg) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 14:09:54 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Unsubscribe In-Reply-To: <011f01d5aec1$2897b610$79c72230$@verizon.net> References: <011f01d5aec1$2897b610$79c72230$.ref@verizon.net> <011f01d5aec1$2897b610$79c72230$@verizon.net> Message-ID: Susan, Sorry to see you go. The list does seem more lively lately, which I view as a good thing. But if you must go, go to http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list and follow the instructions at the bottom of the page. ?Peter > On Dec 9, 2019, at 1:47 PM, Susan via Rhodes22-list wrote: > > Could someone remind me as to how I unsubscribe from this list. I sold my > boat and thought I would enjoy continuing to read postings, but they are > just too numerous now. > > Susan > From jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com Mon Dec 9 14:36:45 2019 From: jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com (Jesse Shumaker) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 13:36:45 -0600 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] cockpit filler planks for outdoor sleeping In-Reply-To: <1575913717633-0.post@n5.nabble.com> References: <1574388039532-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <1575913717633-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Message-ID: Hi Joe, the 3/4" plywood is quite solid. I can stand on the planks with just a little flex and no concern of them breaking (I weigh around 170 lbs). When laying the weight is distributed and the 3/4" plywood is more than enough support. The plywood is a bit heavy, but cutting them into 1' segments makes them easy to move around. Getting the templates is half the battle so make new planks should be an easy task for you. Good luck! On Mon, Dec 9, 2019 at 11:32 AM Joe Dempsey wrote: > Just viewed your photos. Nice job on the cockpit fillers. My R22 came with > 1/2" MDO boards supported with legs in the middle. See photo. Very awkward > to put in place. Is the 3/4" okay without sagging? I think i'd like to > switch. At least I've already got templates! > > > < > http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/file/t752/Cockpit_Filler_Boards_and_Cushions.jpg> > > > > > ----- > Joe Dempsey > s/v Respite > Rhodes 22 1989/2005 > Deltaville,VA > -- > Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ > From joedempsey at hughes.net Mon Dec 9 15:17:39 2019 From: joedempsey at hughes.net (Joe Dempsey) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 13:17:39 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Rhodes22-list] masthead light - steaming vs. all around In-Reply-To: <1573351662108-0.post@n5.nabble.com> References: <1573351662108-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1575922659054-0.post@n5.nabble.com> What you're showing in your photos is a combination steaming/mast head. Under sail, there is no white light visible forward of the stern of the vessel. The stern light displays 135 degrees of white light. The purpose of a steaming light is to provide the forward 225 degree white light. Combined with the 135 degree stern light, there is a full 360 degrees of white light displayed along with the port and starboard navigation lights which are 112.5 degrees on each side of the bow respectively while underway. If you have the capability with the combination steaming/masthead light to operate them separately, it can also be used as an anchor light with 360 degrees using both, but the port and starboard lights must then be extinguished. You cannot use the combination 360 degrees masthead light while steaming if you also have a 135 degree stern light, which if also used underway would be showing two white lights from the stern which could be viewed as a large vessel at anchor or a tug pushing barges. if you use the combination white steaming light, remove your stern light. ----- Joe Dempsey s/v Respite Rhodes 22 1989/2005 Deltaville,VA -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ From jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com Mon Dec 9 21:52:22 2019 From: jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com (Jesse Shumaker) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 19:52:22 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Long term cruising stowage In-Reply-To: <5dee71f4.1c69fb81.6f1d9.0c20@mx.google.com> References: <1575244164482-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <687185153.1412567.1575267000653@mail.yahoo.com> <1575856239250-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <663596959.3594120.1575902050949@mail.yahoo.com> <5dee71f4.1c69fb81.6f1d9.0c20@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1575946342383-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Some googling on this topic led to a similar discussion on another forum. If you go to the bottom of the page at http://forum.chaparralboats.com/index.php?/topic/28850-any-ideas-on-a-scupper-or-check-valve-244-rear-cockpit-drain-issue/ someone demonstrated how they installed an in-line scupper check valve. This approach is more appealing to me since I'm more inclined to modify the hose that connects the thru hull and the cockpit drain and insert a check valve along with some hose clamps. That seems less risky than adding screw holes in the hull. Here's another model of an inline scupper: https://www.amazon.com/Five-Oceans-Nylon-Check-FO-2056/dp/B00HYEXLVU/ Later this week I'm going to take another look in the lazarette to see how easy this would be to tackle. -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ From alexis.seigneurin at gmail.com Mon Dec 9 22:19:41 2019 From: alexis.seigneurin at gmail.com (Alexis Seigneurin) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 22:19:41 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Water tank In-Reply-To: <1575917043198-0.post@n5.nabble.com> References: <1575917043198-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Message-ID: Thanks all for the suggestions. This gives me a few things to try. I will let you know of my progress fixing this problem. Alexis On Mon, Dec 9, 2019 at 1:28 PM Joe Dempsey wrote: > Alex, > First of all, from reading on the List, there seem to be as many different > water tanks as there are R22s! Mine is, of all things, a plastic Rubbermaid > storage box!. Yours seems to be a more substantial and APPROVED type of > container. I'd consider changing the pump. They're not expensive. You can > probably get the old one out much easier, test it and if needed change it > out. > > > > > > > > > > ----- > Joe Dempsey > s/v Respite > Rhodes 22 1989/2005 > Deltaville,VA > -- > Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ > From roger_pihlaja at msn.com Tue Dec 10 13:48:32 2019 From: roger_pihlaja at msn.com (ROGER PIHLAJA) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 18:48:32 +0000 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] placing the boat on trailer In-Reply-To: <744729604.3361209.1575909099123@mail.yahoo.com> References: <744729604.3361209.1575909099123@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Mary Lou, If you trailer your Rhodes 22 W/O having the bow up against the stop on the trailer, what would happen in a sudden emergency stop or accident? What stops the boat from sliding forward forcefully into the bow stop in such a scenario? This adds impact forces to the other issues the boat and trailer would have to endure. Besides greater damage to the boat and trailer, the additional impact also might cause loss of control of the tow vehicle, potentially causing all manner of bad consequences. Although, you?ve gotten away with it so far, it seems like bad practice to me. Roger Pihlaja S/V Dynamic Equilibrium Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 9, 2019, at 11:31 AM, James Nichols via Rhodes22-list wrote: > > ? > I have found that the boat doesn't need tp be perfectly snugged up to the bow rest. As long as my boat was within a few inches of it, it went down the road without problem. When it was more than 6 inches back, I noticed that the trailer began to sway. > > Typically I load and unload the boat myself, so I've worked out just how close I need to get the boat to the trailer's bow rest for it to ride correctly. because snugging it up in the water always seems to be over tight when i pull the trailer out of the water. > > Ever since I discovered that I didn't have to have the bow resting inside the trailer bow rest perfectly, loading has gotten easier. My biggest problem that I struggle with now is when ramps are deep and the boat wants to drift sideways while I am in the truck pulling forward. > James On Sunday, December 8, 2019, 03:21:15 PM CST, ROGER PIHLAJA wrote: > > Mary Lou, > > Thanks for finding and posting that article. I?d forgotten writing it. I still stand behind what it says to do regarding boat recovery. > > Roger Pihlaja > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Dec 8, 2019, at 10:57 AM, Mary Lou Troy wrote: >> >> ?Looks like I left off the last part of the post. >> It should have continued: >> >> Hope this is helpful to someone. >> There is more at the link above including Roger's and Stan's comments: http://www.rhodes22.org/blew_skies/tip001.html >> Former Rhodie Rik Sandberg had this to say in 2002. http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/2002-December/004100.html >> >> Mary Lou >> ex Rhodes 22 >> now the trailerless Rosborough RF-246 Tara >> Rock Hall, MD >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> On 12/7/2019 3:05 PM, Mary Lou Troy wrote: >>> I did a search in the archives and lo and behold I found the "Fred/Mary Lou" boat recovery technique. I forgot that a departed but fondly remembered Rhodie named Alex had inadvertently named it after us. I've copied a couple of pertinent entries here and given some links to other entries that I found in the search. All are from 2000-2002. >>> >>> This entry from Alex and the next one from me are on the Rhodes owner's site in the FAQ (http://www.rhodes22.org/blew_skies/recovery.html) >>> >>> I will add that whenever we retrieved the boat, we moved the bow stop on the trailer all the way forward to give the bow room to move and then moved it back when the boat was in position. We painted a vertical line on the bow stop arm to mark the spot where the bow stop would rest against the boat if the boat is ideally positioned on the trailer and used this as a check when retrieving the boat to make sure it was where we wanted it. And note that this varies by ramp and probably by trailer - ours was a single axle Triad. >>> >>> Alex said: >>> "Pamela and I used the Fred and Mary Lou technique several times with very good results. They were dry sailors and launched and recovered many more times than most of us. To review: >>> >>> Bring the boat up as far as it will come. We usually have about 6" of the support bunks showing. If we submerge the bunk all the way, the boat floats all over as you mentioned. >>> >>> As one person drives and pulls v-e-r-y- slowly, a second person can crank the winch as the bow comes down from on high. We would move maybe a foot and crank, then another foot and crank and so on. The result the last time we pulled the boat was that the boat was against the stop all the way forward, which I felt was too far forward and we backed her down again and let the boat slip enough to allow the bow stop to be moved 4" from the post. >>> >>> This method works well for our Triad trailer and the R22. As I said, we had the boat all the way forward with no space between the bow stop and winch support post. That probably would be fine, but I think it might give excessive tongue weight at that point. >>> >>> It seems that the launch and recovery procedures might be different based on the trailer. My old Rhodes had a 1987 Triad that was not as difficult to recover and launch as the newer (1996) Triad that supports Blue Daze. I don't recall anything major in the way of differences, but there was something different. It might be that the older trailers let the boat sit a bit lower to the ground than the newer ones?? >>> >>> Alex" >>> >>> and I replied >>> >>> "Wow, what an honor to have a technique named after us! It is, however, patented so you can send the royalties to... >>> >>> Glad to hear it works for others but I truly believe that you have to adapt the technique (ours or others) to the ramp. The ramp at Bowley's is relatively steep which is one of the reasons we developed the (ahem) Fred/Mary Lou technique. For the last haulout of this year the tide was way WAY out. We could drop the centerboard and have it hit bottom long before it was fully deployed. With the tide that far out the angle of the ramp was not nearly as steep as usual. We've never used the tongue extender at Bowley's and didn't this time but we could have, as the tailpipe of the Blazer was bubbling away. We normally have the bunks just breaking the surface of the water. This time, with the Blazer backed as far as we could without it drowning (or giving up and actually using the extender) the best we could do was leave about 6" to 8" showing. Fred was able to winch it all the way forward because the angle was less steep. We did take up a little slack as we pulled her out but not nearly as much as usual because the stern was already mostly supported by the bunks. >>> >>> We've marked the ideal position of the bow support with a bit of red paint. We were right on the money this time and could really tell the difference trailering her home. She was only about an inch and a half further forward than she was last year but what a difference it made in the ride. We also took the rudder off and stowed it in the car and took the anchor out of the lazarette to lighten the load aft. >>> >>> Now that we are taking a slip I guess we'll get out of practice. >>> >>> Mary Lou >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> Hope this is helpful to someone. >>> >>> There is more at the link above and Roger's and Stan's comments are here: http://www.rhodes22.org/blew_skies/tip001.html also from the Rhodes owner's FAQ >>> >>> Former Rhodie Rik Sandber had this to say in 2002 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 12/7/2019 11:44 AM, Graham Stewart wrote: >>>> Roger says that placing the boat in the correct location "is an adjustment you do once". I can adjust the bow bracket into what would seem to be the correct position but have had a devil of a time actually placing the boat that far forward. While the boat is still in the water I can draw the bow into the bracket but as the boat is drawn out of the water and the stern lowers onto the bunk there is enormous pressure exerted onto the hull at the forward end of the bunks and as soon as the winch is released the bow springs up and away from the bracket. >>>> When I stripped the bottom of paint I found a mass of hairline cracks and permanent depressions on either side of the hull where the front posts of the bunks are located. That didn't seem right to me and now that it has been repaired I am reluctant to risk damaging the hull again. >>>> I only tow my boat a few miles to the ramp and back going a low speed so I don't worry about getting the boat forward but if I were to take it on a longer trip at highway speeds I would be much more concerned to get the boat properly balanced on the trailer. >>>> Others have mentioned the same problem and I am wondering if those who have solved this problem might give advice on how they balance the boat on the trailer. >>>> Thanks, >>>> Graham Stewart >>>> Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 >>>> Kingston Ontario >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of ROGER PIHLAJA >>>> Sent: Saturday, December 7, 2019 12:06 AM >>>> To: Dana LeTendre; The Rhodes 22 Email List >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard >>>> Dana, >>>> How many outboards on power boats do you see being trailered down the road? How many do you see with the outboard removed and secured inside the hull? The Rhodes 22 transom is built like a tank. Having the rudder and motor mounted won?t hurt anything. As long as the weight of the motor and rudder don?t affect the trailer tongue weight too much and cause instability on the highway, removing them for trailering is waste of time and energy. Getting the tongue weight correct is simply a matter of moving the boat fore and aft on the bunks until at least 10% of the total weight is on the tongue. It?s an adjustment you do once and it?s done. While it doesn?t hurt anything to remove the rudder and motor, there is plenty involved with rigging and unrigging the boat without messing around with the rudder and motor too. >>>> Roger Pihlaja >>>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium >>> >> > From roger_pihlaja at msn.com Tue Dec 10 13:54:24 2019 From: roger_pihlaja at msn.com (ROGER PIHLAJA) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 18:54:24 +0000 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] placing the boat on trailer Message-ID: Sorry, that last post about the potential consequences of the boat not being snugged up against the trailer bow stop should have been addressed to James Nichols, not Mary Lou. Roger Pihlaja S/V Dynamic Equilibrium Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 10, 2019, at 1:48 PM, ROGER PIHLAJA wrote: > From mtroy at atlanticbb.net Tue Dec 10 14:29:59 2019 From: mtroy at atlanticbb.net (Mary Lou Troy) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 14:29:59 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] placing the boat on trailer In-Reply-To: References: <744729604.3361209.1575909099123@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Roger,? Note below is from James not me. Our trailer (and most of the Triads) had an adjustable stop. We always trailered with the stop almost against the bow but not touching. This was on the advice of General Boats when we picked it up at the plant in 1998. Under your scenario the boat would have slipped an inch or so before engaging the stop. We moved it further forward away from the bow when launching. Mary Lou On 12/10/2019 1:48 PM, ROGER PIHLAJA wrote: > Mary Lou, > > If you trailer your Rhodes 22 W/O having the bow up against the stop on the trailer, what would happen in a sudden emergency stop or accident? What stops the boat from sliding forward forcefully into the bow stop in such a scenario? This adds impact forces to the other issues the boat and trailer would have to endure. Besides greater damage to the boat and trailer, the additional impact also might cause loss of control of the tow vehicle, potentially causing all manner of bad consequences. Although, you?ve gotten away with it so far, it seems like bad practice to me. > > Roger Pihlaja > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Dec 9, 2019, at 11:31 AM, James Nichols via Rhodes22-list wrote: >> >> ? >> I have found that the boat doesn't need tp be perfectly snugged up to the bow rest. As long as my boat was within a few inches of it, it went down the road without problem. When it was more than 6 inches back, I noticed that the trailer began to sway. >> >> Typically I load and unload the boat myself, so I've worked out just how close I need to get the boat to the trailer's bow rest for it to ride correctly. because snugging it up in the water always seems to be over tight when i pull the trailer out of the water. >> >> Ever since I discovered that I didn't have to have the bow resting inside the trailer bow rest perfectly, loading has gotten easier. My biggest problem that I struggle with now is when ramps are deep and the boat wants to drift sideways while I am in the truck pulling forward. >> James On Sunday, December 8, 2019, 03:21:15 PM CST, ROGER PIHLAJA wrote: >> >> Mary Lou, >> >> Thanks for finding and posting that article. I?d forgotten writing it. I still stand behind what it says to do regarding boat recovery. >> >> Roger Pihlaja >> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Dec 8, 2019, at 10:57 AM, Mary Lou Troy wrote: >>> >>> ?Looks like I left off the last part of the post. >>> It should have continued: >>> >>> Hope this is helpful to someone. >>> There is more at the link above including Roger's and Stan's comments: http://www.rhodes22.org/blew_skies/tip001.html >>> Former Rhodie Rik Sandberg had this to say in 2002. http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/2002-December/004100.html >>> >>> Mary Lou >>> ex Rhodes 22 >>> now the trailerless Rosborough RF-246 Tara >>> Rock Hall, MD >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>> On 12/7/2019 3:05 PM, Mary Lou Troy wrote: >>>> I did a search in the archives and lo and behold I found the "Fred/Mary Lou" boat recovery technique. I forgot that a departed but fondly remembered Rhodie named Alex had inadvertently named it after us. I've copied a couple of pertinent entries here and given some links to other entries that I found in the search. All are from 2000-2002. >>>> >>>> This entry from Alex and the next one from me are on the Rhodes owner's site in the FAQ (http://www.rhodes22.org/blew_skies/recovery.html) >>>> >>>> I will add that whenever we retrieved the boat, we moved the bow stop on the trailer all the way forward to give the bow room to move and then moved it back when the boat was in position. We painted a vertical line on the bow stop arm to mark the spot where the bow stop would rest against the boat if the boat is ideally positioned on the trailer and used this as a check when retrieving the boat to make sure it was where we wanted it. And note that this varies by ramp and probably by trailer - ours was a single axle Triad. >>>> >>>> Alex said: >>>> "Pamela and I used the Fred and Mary Lou technique several times with very good results. They were dry sailors and launched and recovered many more times than most of us. To review: >>>> >>>> Bring the boat up as far as it will come. We usually have about 6" of the support bunks showing. If we submerge the bunk all the way, the boat floats all over as you mentioned. >>>> >>>> As one person drives and pulls v-e-r-y- slowly, a second person can crank the winch as the bow comes down from on high. We would move maybe a foot and crank, then another foot and crank and so on. The result the last time we pulled the boat was that the boat was against the stop all the way forward, which I felt was too far forward and we backed her down again and let the boat slip enough to allow the bow stop to be moved 4" from the post. >>>> >>>> This method works well for our Triad trailer and the R22. As I said, we had the boat all the way forward with no space between the bow stop and winch support post. That probably would be fine, but I think it might give excessive tongue weight at that point. >>>> >>>> It seems that the launch and recovery procedures might be different based on the trailer. My old Rhodes had a 1987 Triad that was not as difficult to recover and launch as the newer (1996) Triad that supports Blue Daze. I don't recall anything major in the way of differences, but there was something different. It might be that the older trailers let the boat sit a bit lower to the ground than the newer ones?? >>>> >>>> Alex" >>>> >>>> and I replied >>>> >>>> "Wow, what an honor to have a technique named after us! It is, however, patented so you can send the royalties to... >>>> >>>> Glad to hear it works for others but I truly believe that you have to adapt the technique (ours or others) to the ramp. The ramp at Bowley's is relatively steep which is one of the reasons we developed the (ahem) Fred/Mary Lou technique. For the last haulout of this year the tide was way WAY out. We could drop the centerboard and have it hit bottom long before it was fully deployed. With the tide that far out the angle of the ramp was not nearly as steep as usual. We've never used the tongue extender at Bowley's and didn't this time but we could have, as the tailpipe of the Blazer was bubbling away. We normally have the bunks just breaking the surface of the water. This time, with the Blazer backed as far as we could without it drowning (or giving up and actually using the extender) the best we could do was leave about 6" to 8" showing. Fred was able to winch it all the way forward because the angle was less steep. We did take up a little slack as we pulled her out but not nearly as much as usual because the stern was already mostly supported by the bunks. >>>> >>>> We've marked the ideal position of the bow support with a bit of red paint. We were right on the money this time and could really tell the difference trailering her home. She was only about an inch and a half further forward than she was last year but what a difference it made in the ride. We also took the rudder off and stowed it in the car and took the anchor out of the lazarette to lighten the load aft. >>>> >>>> Now that we are taking a slip I guess we'll get out of practice. >>>> >>>> Mary Lou >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Hope this is helpful to someone. >>>> >>>> There is more at the link above and Roger's and Stan's comments are here: http://www.rhodes22.org/blew_skies/tip001.html also from the Rhodes owner's FAQ >>>> >>>> Former Rhodie Rik Sandber had this to say in 2002 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 12/7/2019 11:44 AM, Graham Stewart wrote: >>>>> Roger says that placing the boat in the correct location "is an adjustment you do once". I can adjust the bow bracket into what would seem to be the correct position but have had a devil of a time actually placing the boat that far forward. While the boat is still in the water I can draw the bow into the bracket but as the boat is drawn out of the water and the stern lowers onto the bunk there is enormous pressure exerted onto the hull at the forward end of the bunks and as soon as the winch is released the bow springs up and away from the bracket. >>>>> When I stripped the bottom of paint I found a mass of hairline cracks and permanent depressions on either side of the hull where the front posts of the bunks are located. That didn't seem right to me and now that it has been repaired I am reluctant to risk damaging the hull again. >>>>> I only tow my boat a few miles to the ramp and back going a low speed so I don't worry about getting the boat forward but if I were to take it on a longer trip at highway speeds I would be much more concerned to get the boat properly balanced on the trailer. >>>>> Others have mentioned the same problem and I am wondering if those who have solved this problem might give advice on how they balance the boat on the trailer. >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Graham Stewart >>>>> Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 >>>>> Kingston Ontario >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of ROGER PIHLAJA >>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 7, 2019 12:06 AM >>>>> To: Dana LeTendre; The Rhodes 22 Email List >>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard >>>>> Dana, >>>>> How many outboards on power boats do you see being trailered down the road? How many do you see with the outboard removed and secured inside the hull? The Rhodes 22 transom is built like a tank. Having the rudder and motor mounted won?t hurt anything. As long as the weight of the motor and rudder don?t affect the trailer tongue weight too much and cause instability on the highway, removing them for trailering is waste of time and energy. Getting the tongue weight correct is simply a matter of moving the boat fore and aft on the bunks until at least 10% of the total weight is on the tongue. It?s an adjustment you do once and it?s done. While it doesn?t hurt anything to remove the rudder and motor, there is plenty involved with rigging and unrigging the boat without messing around with the rudder and motor too. >>>>> Roger Pihlaja >>>>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium From roger_pihlaja at msn.com Tue Dec 10 15:09:18 2019 From: roger_pihlaja at msn.com (ROGER PIHLAJA) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 20:09:18 +0000 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] placing the boat on trailer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mary Lou, Sorry about that. I didn?t notice the error re who sent the post until after I replied. Roger Pihlaja Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 10, 2019, at 2:30 PM, Mary Lou Troy wrote: > > ?Roger, Note below is from James not me. Our trailer (and most of the Triads) had an adjustable stop. We always trailered with the stop almost against the bow but not touching. This was on the advice of General Boats when we picked it up at the plant in 1998. Under your scenario the boat would have slipped an inch or so before engaging the stop. We moved it further forward away from the bow when launching. > > Mary Lou > > > >> On 12/10/2019 1:48 PM, ROGER PIHLAJA wrote: >> Mary Lou, >> >> If you trailer your Rhodes 22 W/O having the bow up against the stop on the trailer, what would happen in a sudden emergency stop or accident? What stops the boat from sliding forward forcefully into the bow stop in such a scenario? This adds impact forces to the other issues the boat and trailer would have to endure. Besides greater damage to the boat and trailer, the additional impact also might cause loss of control of the tow vehicle, potentially causing all manner of bad consequences. Although, you?ve gotten away with it so far, it seems like bad practice to me. >> >> Roger Pihlaja >> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>>> On Dec 9, 2019, at 11:31 AM, James Nichols via Rhodes22-list wrote: >>> >>> ? >>> I have found that the boat doesn't need tp be perfectly snugged up to the bow rest. As long as my boat was within a few inches of it, it went down the road without problem. When it was more than 6 inches back, I noticed that the trailer began to sway. >>> >>> Typically I load and unload the boat myself, so I've worked out just how close I need to get the boat to the trailer's bow rest for it to ride correctly. because snugging it up in the water always seems to be over tight when i pull the trailer out of the water. >>> >>> Ever since I discovered that I didn't have to have the bow resting inside the trailer bow rest perfectly, loading has gotten easier. My biggest problem that I struggle with now is when ramps are deep and the boat wants to drift sideways while I am in the truck pulling forward. >>> James On Sunday, December 8, 2019, 03:21:15 PM CST, ROGER PIHLAJA wrote: >>> >>> Mary Lou, >>> >>> Thanks for finding and posting that article. I?d forgotten writing it. I still stand behind what it says to do regarding boat recovery. >>> >>> Roger Pihlaja >>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Dec 8, 2019, at 10:57 AM, Mary Lou Troy wrote: >>>> >>>> ?Looks like I left off the last part of the post. >>>> It should have continued: >>>> >>>> Hope this is helpful to someone. >>>> There is more at the link above including Roger's and Stan's comments: http://www.rhodes22.org/blew_skies/tip001.html >>>> Former Rhodie Rik Sandberg had this to say in 2002. http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/2002-December/004100.html >>>> >>>> Mary Lou >>>> ex Rhodes 22 >>>> now the trailerless Rosborough RF-246 Tara >>>> Rock Hall, MD >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> On 12/7/2019 3:05 PM, Mary Lou Troy wrote: >>>>> I did a search in the archives and lo and behold I found the "Fred/Mary Lou" boat recovery technique. I forgot that a departed but fondly remembered Rhodie named Alex had inadvertently named it after us. I've copied a couple of pertinent entries here and given some links to other entries that I found in the search. All are from 2000-2002. >>>>> >>>>> This entry from Alex and the next one from me are on the Rhodes owner's site in the FAQ (http://www.rhodes22.org/blew_skies/recovery.html) >>>>> >>>>> I will add that whenever we retrieved the boat, we moved the bow stop on the trailer all the way forward to give the bow room to move and then moved it back when the boat was in position. We painted a vertical line on the bow stop arm to mark the spot where the bow stop would rest against the boat if the boat is ideally positioned on the trailer and used this as a check when retrieving the boat to make sure it was where we wanted it. And note that this varies by ramp and probably by trailer - ours was a single axle Triad. >>>>> >>>>> Alex said: >>>>> "Pamela and I used the Fred and Mary Lou technique several times with very good results. They were dry sailors and launched and recovered many more times than most of us. To review: >>>>> >>>>> Bring the boat up as far as it will come. We usually have about 6" of the support bunks showing. If we submerge the bunk all the way, the boat floats all over as you mentioned. >>>>> >>>>> As one person drives and pulls v-e-r-y- slowly, a second person can crank the winch as the bow comes down from on high. We would move maybe a foot and crank, then another foot and crank and so on. The result the last time we pulled the boat was that the boat was against the stop all the way forward, which I felt was too far forward and we backed her down again and let the boat slip enough to allow the bow stop to be moved 4" from the post. >>>>> >>>>> This method works well for our Triad trailer and the R22. As I said, we had the boat all the way forward with no space between the bow stop and winch support post. That probably would be fine, but I think it might give excessive tongue weight at that point. >>>>> >>>>> It seems that the launch and recovery procedures might be different based on the trailer. My old Rhodes had a 1987 Triad that was not as difficult to recover and launch as the newer (1996) Triad that supports Blue Daze. I don't recall anything major in the way of differences, but there was something different. It might be that the older trailers let the boat sit a bit lower to the ground than the newer ones?? >>>>> >>>>> Alex" >>>>> >>>>> and I replied >>>>> >>>>> "Wow, what an honor to have a technique named after us! It is, however, patented so you can send the royalties to... >>>>> >>>>> Glad to hear it works for others but I truly believe that you have to adapt the technique (ours or others) to the ramp. The ramp at Bowley's is relatively steep which is one of the reasons we developed the (ahem) Fred/Mary Lou technique. For the last haulout of this year the tide was way WAY out. We could drop the centerboard and have it hit bottom long before it was fully deployed. With the tide that far out the angle of the ramp was not nearly as steep as usual. We've never used the tongue extender at Bowley's and didn't this time but we could have, as the tailpipe of the Blazer was bubbling away. We normally have the bunks just breaking the surface of the water. This time, with the Blazer backed as far as we could without it drowning (or giving up and actually using the extender) the best we could do was leave about 6" to 8" showing. Fred was able to winch it all the way forward because the angle was less steep. We did take up a little slack as we pulled her out but not nearly as much as usual because the stern was already mostly supported by the bunks. >>>>> >>>>> We've marked the ideal position of the bow support with a bit of red paint. We were right on the money this time and could really tell the difference trailering her home. She was only about an inch and a half further forward than she was last year but what a difference it made in the ride. We also took the rudder off and stowed it in the car and took the anchor out of the lazarette to lighten the load aft. >>>>> >>>>> Now that we are taking a slip I guess we'll get out of practice. >>>>> >>>>> Mary Lou >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Hope this is helpful to someone. >>>>> >>>>> There is more at the link above and Roger's and Stan's comments are here: http://www.rhodes22.org/blew_skies/tip001.html also from the Rhodes owner's FAQ >>>>> >>>>> Former Rhodie Rik Sandber had this to say in 2002 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 12/7/2019 11:44 AM, Graham Stewart wrote: >>>>>> Roger says that placing the boat in the correct location "is an adjustment you do once". I can adjust the bow bracket into what would seem to be the correct position but have had a devil of a time actually placing the boat that far forward. While the boat is still in the water I can draw the bow into the bracket but as the boat is drawn out of the water and the stern lowers onto the bunk there is enormous pressure exerted onto the hull at the forward end of the bunks and as soon as the winch is released the bow springs up and away from the bracket. >>>>>> When I stripped the bottom of paint I found a mass of hairline cracks and permanent depressions on either side of the hull where the front posts of the bunks are located. That didn't seem right to me and now that it has been repaired I am reluctant to risk damaging the hull again. >>>>>> I only tow my boat a few miles to the ramp and back going a low speed so I don't worry about getting the boat forward but if I were to take it on a longer trip at highway speeds I would be much more concerned to get the boat properly balanced on the trailer. >>>>>> Others have mentioned the same problem and I am wondering if those who have solved this problem might give advice on how they balance the boat on the trailer. >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Graham Stewart >>>>>> Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 >>>>>> Kingston Ontario >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of ROGER PIHLAJA >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 7, 2019 12:06 AM >>>>>> To: Dana LeTendre; The Rhodes 22 Email List >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailering with outboard >>>>>> Dana, >>>>>> How many outboards on power boats do you see being trailered down the road? How many do you see with the outboard removed and secured inside the hull? The Rhodes 22 transom is built like a tank. Having the rudder and motor mounted won?t hurt anything. As long as the weight of the motor and rudder don?t affect the trailer tongue weight too much and cause instability on the highway, removing them for trailering is waste of time and energy. Getting the tongue weight correct is simply a matter of moving the boat fore and aft on the bunks until at least 10% of the total weight is on the tongue. It?s an adjustment you do once and it?s done. While it doesn?t hurt anything to remove the rudder and motor, there is plenty involved with rigging and unrigging the boat without messing around with the rudder and motor too. >>>>>> Roger Pihlaja >>>>>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium > > From peter at sunnybeeches.com Tue Dec 10 15:52:12 2019 From: peter at sunnybeeches.com (Peter Nyberg) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 15:52:12 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] placing the boat on trailer In-Reply-To: References: <744729604.3361209.1575909099123@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2483B704-1493-4A77-AE3A-6FCD92DB4690@sunnybeeches.com> Roger, I use a pair of 2? ratchet straps to secure the boat to the trailer, which I?m pretty sure would prevent the boat from shifting forward during a hard stop. My trailer has several safety stickers on it stating: WARNING: BOAT MUST BE SECURED TO TRAILER AT ALL TIMES. I have to chuckle every time I try to imaging what it would be like to follow that advice very literally. ?Peter > On Dec 10, 2019, at 1:48 PM, ROGER PIHLAJA wrote: > > Mary Lou, > > If you trailer your Rhodes 22 W/O having the bow up against the stop on the trailer, what would happen in a sudden emergency stop or accident? What stops the boat from sliding forward forcefully into the bow stop in such a scenario? This adds impact forces to the other issues the boat and trailer would have to endure. Besides greater damage to the boat and trailer, the additional impact also might cause loss of control of the tow vehicle, potentially causing all manner of bad consequences. Although, you?ve gotten away with it so far, it seems like bad practice to me. > > Roger Pihlaja > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium > From roger_pihlaja at msn.com Tue Dec 10 16:10:26 2019 From: roger_pihlaja at msn.com (ROGER PIHLAJA) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 21:10:26 +0000 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] placing the boat on trailer In-Reply-To: <2483B704-1493-4A77-AE3A-6FCD92DB4690@sunnybeeches.com> References: <2483B704-1493-4A77-AE3A-6FCD92DB4690@sunnybeeches.com> Message-ID: Peter, Besides the trailer?s bow winch, I use a back-up nylon strap in case of trailer winch or cable failure. Then, I have another 2? nylon strap from the trailer frame angled up to the boat?s bow eye to prevent forward motion and keep the boat on the trailer even if it should flip over. At the stern, I attach two 2? nylon straps to the stern eyes and run them criss cross under the hull to pad eyes on the trailer frame. These prevent the stern from shifting side to side and also keep the boat with the trailer. I used to use 2 long nylon straps over the gunnels to the trailer frame. But, I didn?t like the way they loaded up the hull when they were tightened. The stern straps secure the boat to the trailer very securely and they are more gentle on the hull. So, all my trailer tie down points are made using the designed in strong points at the bow and stern eyes. Roger Pihlaja S/V Dynamic Equilibrium Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 10, 2019, at 3:52 PM, Peter Nyberg wrote: > > ?Roger, > > I use a pair of 2? ratchet straps to secure the boat to the trailer, which I?m pretty sure would prevent the boat from shifting forward during a hard stop. > > My trailer has several safety stickers on it stating: WARNING: BOAT MUST BE SECURED TO TRAILER AT ALL TIMES. I have to chuckle every time I try to imaging what it would be like to follow that advice very literally. > > ?Peter > >> On Dec 10, 2019, at 1:48 PM, ROGER PIHLAJA wrote: >> >> Mary Lou, >> >> If you trailer your Rhodes 22 W/O having the bow up against the stop on the trailer, what would happen in a sudden emergency stop or accident? What stops the boat from sliding forward forcefully into the bow stop in such a scenario? This adds impact forces to the other issues the boat and trailer would have to endure. Besides greater damage to the boat and trailer, the additional impact also might cause loss of control of the tow vehicle, potentially causing all manner of bad consequences. Although, you?ve gotten away with it so far, it seems like bad practice to me. >> >> Roger Pihlaja >> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium >> From jfn302 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 10 17:03:06 2019 From: jfn302 at yahoo.com (James Nichols) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 22:03:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Rhodes22-list] placing the boat on trailer In-Reply-To: <2483B704-1493-4A77-AE3A-6FCD92DB4690@sunnybeeches.com> References: <744729604.3361209.1575909099123@mail.yahoo.com> <2483B704-1493-4A77-AE3A-6FCD92DB4690@sunnybeeches.com> Message-ID: <1635277409.7635148.1576015386687@mail.yahoo.com> Peter, My 2 trailerable sailboats that I have only came with the eye ring, so no transom eyes for strapping down the boat the way I have seen fishing boats strapped.?? When I first started hauling them, I thought it needed to be strapped has well as the fishing boats I saw and used a 4" strap over the stern of the boat. What I found was that the strap rubbed finish of the boat and didn't stop it from shifting slightly due to the normal movement that road vibration causes. The weight of the boat, the friction of the bunks and driving like I have a load behind me instead of like I'm in the Indy 500 got me the same or better results with just the bow strap compared to having the additional strapping. I've also done the math on the collision forces involved.? I'm not likely to strap the boat down sufficiently to keep the boat on the trailer should I get in a collision.? So you are right, the literal and the practical meaning of securing your boat are two different things. Regards, James On Tuesday, December 10, 2019, 02:52:35 PM CST, Peter Nyberg wrote: Roger, I use a pair of 2? ratchet straps to secure the boat to the trailer, which I?m pretty sure would prevent the boat from shifting forward during a hard stop.? My trailer has several safety stickers on it stating: WARNING: BOAT MUST BE SECURED TO TRAILER AT ALL TIMES.? I have to chuckle every time I try to imaging what it would be like to follow that advice very literally. ?Peter > On Dec 10, 2019, at 1:48 PM, ROGER PIHLAJA wrote: > > Mary Lou, > > If you trailer your Rhodes 22 W/O having the bow up against the stop on the trailer, what would happen in a sudden emergency stop or accident?? What stops the boat from sliding forward forcefully into the bow stop in such a scenario?? This adds impact forces to the other issues the boat and trailer would have to endure.? Besides greater damage to the boat and trailer, the additional impact also might cause loss of control of the tow vehicle, potentially causing all manner of bad consequences.? Although, you?ve gotten away with it so far, it seems like bad practice to me. > > Roger Pihlaja > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium > From mweisner at ebsmed.com Tue Dec 10 17:27:22 2019 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (mweisner at ebsmed.com) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 17:27:22 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] placing the boat on trailer In-Reply-To: <1635277409.7635148.1576015386687@mail.yahoo.com> References: <744729604.3361209.1575909099123@mail.yahoo.com> <2483B704-1493-4A77-AE3A-6FCD92DB4690@sunnybeeches.com> <1635277409.7635148.1576015386687@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004a01d5afa8$ff302710$fd907530$@ebsmed.com> Don't forget the safety chains! Mike s/v Wind Lass ('91) Nissequogue River, NY -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Faulty trailer hitch.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2186477 bytes Desc: not available URL: From chrisgeankoplis at gmail.com Tue Dec 10 23:30:38 2019 From: chrisgeankoplis at gmail.com (Chris Geankoplis) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 23:30:38 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Pt. 5 2019 Rhodes in the Med Message-ID: So, here is part 5 of sailing in the Mediterranean. It covers only about 165 nm, but there were a lot of interesting things to see and do during this trip down the east coast of Sicily. Enjoy the link and the trip: https://drive.google.com/file/d/14aYOc6U0PDIPmX3I2eyIK-4CAGUmV5Ik/view?usp=sharing Chris & Alice S/V ENOSIS P.S. I also attached the PDF also -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Pt. 5 2019 Rhodes in the Med June thru August.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 4768209 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tavares0947 at gmail.com Wed Dec 11 07:13:10 2019 From: tavares0947 at gmail.com (Todd Tavares) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 07:13:10 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck In-Reply-To: References: <003201d5a8a7$da7e9030$8f7bb090$@ca> <003601d5a8c4$e23be490$a6b3adb0$@ca> <1575298706725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <00b701d5a9e6$2dade140$8909a3c0$@ca> <185718492.1623572.1575387870653@mail.yahoo.com> <00c601d5a9f7$ef036110$cd0a2330$@ca> <002101d5a9fe$f57f84e0$e07e8ea0$@ebsmed.com> <00d601d5aa05$499fde70$dcdf9b50$@ca> <1575424369617-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <1022235561.5587557.1575424426935@mail.yahoo.com> <008a01d5abef$2394b7a0$6abe26e0$@ca> Message-ID: Mark, She was a beautiful boat and! I'd never seen a Triton with a yawl rig before. Thanks for sharing the repair logs. A very very interesting read. Todd T. tavares0947 at gmail.com On Wed, Dec 11, 2019, 2:41 AM Mark Whipple wrote: > Sorry, Todd, I sold the Triton several years ago. But you can see some > pictures of the renovation here: https://tikvah59.wordpress.com/ > > Also, I have a Nimble 30 yawl for sale! New engine, new roller furler, > like-new sails. > > Mark > > On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 9:45 AM Todd Tavares wrote: > > > I'm wondering if Mark wants to sell the rehabbed Triton... :) > > > > > > tavares0947 at gmail.com > > > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2019, 11:39 PM Graham Stewart > wrote: > > > > > Rick: > > > > > > Well said. > > > > > > For me restoring the boat was something I actually enjoyed. If I saw it > > as > > > a chore I would have quit many years ago. In fact, my Rhodes was the > > > second boat that I did an extensive restoration of. The first was a 19' > > > 1960 mahogany lapstrake boat which required that I replace everything > > > below the waterline (including steam bent oak ribs) and transom. That > > took > > > me 10 years of summer free time with at least one year when I did > nothing > > > due to illness. Then, last year I reworked the deck using strips of > > > mahogany. That took most of the year preparing the material during the > > > winter and installing the deck in the summer. None of that activity > > > reflected a sound financial calculation but it looks awesome. > > > > > > For me the work is like a hobby rather than a task and what hoppy > > reflects > > > a justified rationale for the use of money or time? I don't follow > sports > > > and could not imagine spending hours every weekend watching games on my > > TV > > > and, in the end, having absolutely nothing to show for it. But for > those > > > who do enjoy watching sports the time is well spent. > > > > > > I do it because it interests me, is a creative outlet, and provides > > > something to be proud of. So I have spent the last 20 plus years of my > > free > > > time working on two old boats - neither of which has much value even > now > > > but are sound, beautiful and will last another 40+ years. Given that I > am > > > in my mid 70s 40 years will probably suffice. I love the challenge of > > doing > > > something that I think is way beyond my competence. Everything I have > > done > > > I approached as a total novice often not having a clue at the beginning > > how > > > to actually accomplish what I needed to do. > > > > > > If this was just about time and money no one would ever undertake a > > > restoration twice. You can't be that na?ve twice. It seems to me that > > > anyone I have had contact who had built a boat or done major > restoration > > > has done it on multiple occasions. > > > > > > Messing around in boats is often its own reward - if you are inclined > > that > > > way. > > > > > > > > > Graham Stewart > > > Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 > > > Kingston Ontario > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On > > Behalf > > > Of Rick Lange > > > Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 11:00 AM > > > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck > > > > > > For some, the greatest pleasure of a trip is the journey. For others, > > the > > > greatest pleasure is reaching the destination. For the journey types, > > the > > > process of rehabilitating an old boat can be its own reward. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Rick Lange > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 11:40 AM Todd Tavares > > > wrote: > > > > > > > MJM gave me sound advice early on. I'm paraphrasing here (I saved the > > > email > > > > but hsve time to look for it) > > > > He said.... If you consider the time, money and aggravation involved > > with > > > > rebuilding and restoring an older boat; especially a Rhodes 22 with > all > > > of > > > > its one-of-a-kind and one-off parts, your time and money would be > > better > > > > spent buying a new boat or at least, one that needs less work. > > > > > > > > I have taken two Rhodes 22s to the dump. I have videos saved > somewhere > > of > > > > the guys on the big earth movers racing to see who could crush them > > > first. > > > > > > > > > > > > tavares0947 at gmail.com > > > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 3, 2019, 8:53 PM Art Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list < > > > > rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > > The rebuild skills of this group of skippers bodes well for the > > future > > > of > > > > > our fleet when GB may eventually not have the capability. The > > business > > > > > model has thrived well under Stan's excellent leadership and > business > > > > > acumen. Think about it, just building one fixture, the boom room > and > > > > covers > > > > > has been totally satisfying for me, especially having such > > satisfaction > > > > of > > > > > client skippers. > > > > > Best,Art > > > > > > > > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 8:37 PM, Jesse Shumaker< > > > > > jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com> wrote: Restorers, thanks for > > sharing > > > > > all the hard won experience on the topic of > > > > > overhauling the foredeck. Very impressive work on formidable > > projects! > > > > > > > > > > I echo Chris's sentiments. Count me in as another member of of the > > > > > S.P.C.R. > > > > > and A.V.R.A. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > > > Name: First sail - finally - August 10, 2017 (1).jpg > > > Type: image/jpeg > > > Size: 523386 bytes > > > Desc: not available > > > URL: < > > > > > > http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20191205/67d8edea/attachment.jpg > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > > > Name: New deck finished 2018.jpg > > > Type: image/jpeg > > > Size: 132757 bytes > > > Desc: not available > > > URL: < > > > > > > http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20191205/67d8edea/attachment-0001.jpg > > > > > > > > > > From mark at whipplefamily.com Wed Dec 11 08:04:43 2019 From: mark at whipplefamily.com (Mark Whipple) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 08:04:43 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck In-Reply-To: References: <003201d5a8a7$da7e9030$8f7bb090$@ca> <003601d5a8c4$e23be490$a6b3adb0$@ca> <1575298706725-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <00b701d5a9e6$2dade140$8909a3c0$@ca> <185718492.1623572.1575387870653@mail.yahoo.com> <00c601d5a9f7$ef036110$cd0a2330$@ca> <002101d5a9fe$f57f84e0$e07e8ea0$@ebsmed.com> <00d601d5aa05$499fde70$dcdf9b50$@ca> <1575424369617-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <1022235561.5587557.1575424426935@mail.yahoo.com> <008a01d5abef$2394b7a0$6abe26e0$@ca> Message-ID: Thanks, Todd! The Triton yawl was a rare bird. Yawls were popular early in the production run (starting in 1959) because one of the racing rules favored yawls - maybe the IOR? Pearson didn't sell many yawls after the first couple of years because they didn't perform as well as sloops and the rule changed. My 30' Nimble is also a yawl. When the wind pipes up it's great to sail with the jib and mizzen. Thanks, Mark On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 7:13 AM Todd Tavares wrote: > Mark, > > She was a beautiful boat and! I'd never seen a Triton with a yawl rig > before. > Thanks for sharing the repair logs. A very very interesting read. > > Todd T. > > tavares0947 at gmail.com > > > On Wed, Dec 11, 2019, 2:41 AM Mark Whipple wrote: > > > Sorry, Todd, I sold the Triton several years ago. But you can see some > > pictures of the renovation here: https://tikvah59.wordpress.com/ > > > > Also, I have a Nimble 30 yawl for sale! New engine, new roller furler, > > like-new sails. > > > > Mark > > > > On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 9:45 AM Todd Tavares > wrote: > > > > > I'm wondering if Mark wants to sell the rehabbed Triton... :) > > > > > > > > > tavares0947 at gmail.com > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2019, 11:39 PM Graham Stewart > > wrote: > > > > > > > Rick: > > > > > > > > Well said. > > > > > > > > For me restoring the boat was something I actually enjoyed. If I saw > it > > > as > > > > a chore I would have quit many years ago. In fact, my Rhodes was the > > > > second boat that I did an extensive restoration of. The first was a > 19' > > > > 1960 mahogany lapstrake boat which required that I replace > everything > > > > below the waterline (including steam bent oak ribs) and transom. > That > > > took > > > > me 10 years of summer free time with at least one year when I did > > nothing > > > > due to illness. Then, last year I reworked the deck using strips of > > > > mahogany. That took most of the year preparing the material during > the > > > > winter and installing the deck in the summer. None of that activity > > > > reflected a sound financial calculation but it looks awesome. > > > > > > > > For me the work is like a hobby rather than a task and what hoppy > > > reflects > > > > a justified rationale for the use of money or time? I don't follow > > sports > > > > and could not imagine spending hours every weekend watching games on > my > > > TV > > > > and, in the end, having absolutely nothing to show for it. But for > > those > > > > who do enjoy watching sports the time is well spent. > > > > > > > > I do it because it interests me, is a creative outlet, and provides > > > > something to be proud of. So I have spent the last 20 plus years of > my > > > free > > > > time working on two old boats - neither of which has much value even > > now > > > > but are sound, beautiful and will last another 40+ years. Given that > I > > am > > > > in my mid 70s 40 years will probably suffice. I love the challenge of > > > doing > > > > something that I think is way beyond my competence. Everything I have > > > done > > > > I approached as a total novice often not having a clue at the > beginning > > > how > > > > to actually accomplish what I needed to do. > > > > > > > > If this was just about time and money no one would ever undertake a > > > > restoration twice. You can't be that na?ve twice. It seems to me that > > > > anyone I have had contact who had built a boat or done major > > restoration > > > > has done it on multiple occasions. > > > > > > > > Messing around in boats is often its own reward - if you are inclined > > > that > > > > way. > > > > > > > > > > > > Graham Stewart > > > > Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 > > > > Kingston Ontario > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On > > > Behalf > > > > Of Rick Lange > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 11:00 AM > > > > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List > > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck > > > > > > > > For some, the greatest pleasure of a trip is the journey. For > others, > > > the > > > > greatest pleasure is reaching the destination. For the journey > types, > > > the > > > > process of rehabilitating an old boat can be its own reward. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Rick Lange > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 11:40 AM Todd Tavares > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > MJM gave me sound advice early on. I'm paraphrasing here (I saved > the > > > > email > > > > > but hsve time to look for it) > > > > > He said.... If you consider the time, money and aggravation > involved > > > with > > > > > rebuilding and restoring an older boat; especially a Rhodes 22 with > > all > > > > of > > > > > its one-of-a-kind and one-off parts, your time and money would be > > > better > > > > > spent buying a new boat or at least, one that needs less work. > > > > > > > > > > I have taken two Rhodes 22s to the dump. I have videos saved > > somewhere > > > of > > > > > the guys on the big earth movers racing to see who could crush them > > > > first. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tavares0947 at gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 3, 2019, 8:53 PM Art Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list < > > > > > rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > The rebuild skills of this group of skippers bodes well for the > > > future > > > > of > > > > > > our fleet when GB may eventually not have the capability. The > > > business > > > > > > model has thrived well under Stan's excellent leadership and > > business > > > > > > acumen. Think about it, just building one fixture, the boom room > > and > > > > > covers > > > > > > has been totally satisfying for me, especially having such > > > satisfaction > > > > > of > > > > > > client skippers. > > > > > > Best,Art > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 8:37 PM, Jesse Shumaker< > > > > > > jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com> wrote: Restorers, thanks for > > > sharing > > > > > > all the hard won experience on the topic of > > > > > > overhauling the foredeck. Very impressive work on formidable > > > projects! > > > > > > > > > > > > I echo Chris's sentiments. Count me in as another member of of > the > > > > > > S.P.C.R. > > > > > > and A.V.R.A. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > > > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > > > > Name: First sail - finally - August 10, 2017 (1).jpg > > > > Type: image/jpeg > > > > Size: 523386 bytes > > > > Desc: not available > > > > URL: < > > > > > > > > > > http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20191205/67d8edea/attachment.jpg > > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > > > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > > > > Name: New deck finished 2018.jpg > > > > Type: image/jpeg > > > > Size: 132757 bytes > > > > Desc: not available > > > > URL: < > > > > > > > > > > http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20191205/67d8edea/attachment-0001.jpg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From rlowe at vt.edu Wed Dec 11 09:57:15 2019 From: rlowe at vt.edu (Lowe, Rob) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 14:57:15 +0000 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] placing the boat on trailer In-Reply-To: <004a01d5afa8$ff302710$fd907530$@ebsmed.com> References: <744729604.3361209.1575909099123@mail.yahoo.com> <2483B704-1493-4A77-AE3A-6FCD92DB4690@sunnybeeches.com> <1635277409.7635148.1576015386687@mail.yahoo.com> <004a01d5afa8$ff302710$fd907530$@ebsmed.com> Message-ID: Mike, Remind of us what this story was all about? I'm seem to recall this from some time back. - rob -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of mweisner at ebsmed.com Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2019 5:27 PM To: 'James Nichols' ; 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] placing the boat on trailer Don't forget the safety chains! Mike s/v Wind Lass ('91) Nissequogue River, NY -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Faulty trailer hitch.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2186477 bytes Desc: not available URL: From 4cgabriel at gmail.com Wed Dec 11 19:16:50 2019 From: 4cgabriel at gmail.com (C Gabriel) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 19:16:50 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] A Special Full Moon Message-ID: Dear Rhodes Family, Tonight in just a few hours (EDT) a special full moon will come, the winter or Cold Christmas Moon. It occurs on December 12 at 12:12 am, a rare and most auspicious combination of days and times. It is a time remember all those who have gone before us and those who walk or sail beside us as family. Blessings on your water journeys and your years ahead. Cecilia and Charles From chrisgeankoplis at gmail.com Wed Dec 11 22:13:52 2019 From: chrisgeankoplis at gmail.com (Chris Geankoplis) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 22:13:52 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] A Special Full Moon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for the kind thoughts,I promise to go outside and howl at the moon. 12 times. Wish I was out on the Rhodes this evening. Chris Geankoplis Enosis On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 7:17 PM C Gabriel <4cgabriel at gmail.com> wrote: > Dear Rhodes Family, > > Tonight in just a few hours (EDT) a special full moon will come, the winter > or Cold Christmas Moon. It occurs on December 12 at 12:12 am, a rare and > most auspicious combination of days and times. It is a time remember all > those who have gone before us and those who walk or sail beside us as > family. > > Blessings on your water journeys and your years ahead. Cecilia and Charles > From michael.4591 at gmail.com Thu Dec 12 15:44:35 2019 From: michael.4591 at gmail.com (Michael Corley) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2019 15:44:35 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] A Special Full Moon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I may not howl at the moon, but I will definitely stare in awe. Moonlight sails are special . . . Mike S/V Ranger On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 10:14 PM Chris Geankoplis wrote: > Thanks for the kind thoughts,I promise to go outside and howl at the moon. > 12 times. Wish I was out on the Rhodes this evening. > Chris Geankoplis > Enosis > > > On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 7:17 PM C Gabriel <4cgabriel at gmail.com> wrote: > > > Dear Rhodes Family, > > > > Tonight in just a few hours (EDT) a special full moon will come, the > winter > > or Cold Christmas Moon. It occurs on December 12 at 12:12 am, a rare and > > most auspicious combination of days and times. It is a time remember all > > those who have gone before us and those who walk or sail beside us as > > family. > > > > Blessings on your water journeys and your years ahead. Cecilia and > Charles > > > From dlet3 at aol.com Thu Dec 12 18:52:14 2019 From: dlet3 at aol.com (Dana LeTendre) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2019 17:52:14 -0600 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] A Special Full Moon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <490D17B2-10BD-4A66-BF82-A036384D7995@aol.com> Okay, okay, I know it sounds like bragging, but every full moon with weather permitting, we have a pizza delivered to the dock, motor 5 minutes out to the reef, pick up a mooring ball, then eat pizza while we watch the sun go down and the full moon come up. Wednesday night the weather permitted and it was GREAT. I didn?t howl at the moon, but I did honk my conch. Dana ?Caye Dreams? San Pedro, Belize Sent from my iPad ???????? On Dec 12, 2019, at 2:44 PM, Michael Corley wrote: I may not howl at the moon, but I will definitely stare in awe. Moonlight sails are special . . . Mike S/V Ranger On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 10:14 PM Chris Geankoplis wrote: > Thanks for the kind thoughts,I promise to go outside and howl at the moon. > 12 times. Wish I was out on the Rhodes this evening. > Chris Geankoplis > Enosis > > >> On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 7:17 PM C Gabriel <4cgabriel at gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Dear Rhodes Family, >> >> Tonight in just a few hours (EDT) a special full moon will come, the > winter >> or Cold Christmas Moon. It occurs on December 12 at 12:12 am, a rare and >> most auspicious combination of days and times. It is a time remember all >> those who have gone before us and those who walk or sail beside us as >> family. >> >> Blessings on your water journeys and your years ahead. Cecilia and > Charles >> > From shawn.sustain at gmail.com Thu Dec 12 19:02:19 2019 From: shawn.sustain at gmail.com (Shawn Boles) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2019 16:02:19 -0800 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] A Special Full Moon In-Reply-To: <490D17B2-10BD-4A66-BF82-A036384D7995@aol.com> References: <490D17B2-10BD-4A66-BF82-A036384D7995@aol.com> Message-ID: It is not bragging. We are blessed. Enjoy it while it lasts... https://www.ipcc.ch/reports/ Shawn s/v Sweet Baboo On Thu, Dec 12, 2019, 3:52 PM Dana LeTendre via Rhodes22-list < rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote: > Okay, okay, I know it sounds like bragging, but every full moon with > weather permitting, we have a pizza delivered to the dock, motor 5 minutes > out to the reef, pick up a mooring ball, then eat pizza while we watch the > sun go down and the full moon come up. Wednesday night the weather > permitted and it was GREAT. I didn?t howl at the moon, but I did honk my > conch. > > Dana > ?Caye Dreams? > San Pedro, Belize > > Sent from my iPad > ???????? > > On Dec 12, 2019, at 2:44 PM, Michael Corley > wrote: > > I may not howl at the moon, but I will definitely stare in awe. > Moonlight sails are special . . . > > Mike > S/V Ranger > > On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 10:14 PM Chris Geankoplis < > chrisgeankoplis at gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Thanks for the kind thoughts,I promise to go outside and howl at the > moon. > > 12 times. Wish I was out on the Rhodes this evening. > > Chris Geankoplis > > Enosis > > > > > >> On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 7:17 PM C Gabriel <4cgabriel at gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> Dear Rhodes Family, > >> > >> Tonight in just a few hours (EDT) a special full moon will come, the > > winter > >> or Cold Christmas Moon. It occurs on December 12 at 12:12 am, a rare and > >> most auspicious combination of days and times. It is a time remember all > >> those who have gone before us and those who walk or sail beside us as > >> family. > >> > >> Blessings on your water journeys and your years ahead. Cecilia and > > Charles > >> > > > > From 4cgabriel at gmail.com Thu Dec 12 21:07:37 2019 From: 4cgabriel at gmail.com (C Gabriel) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2019 21:07:37 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] A Special Full Moon In-Reply-To: <490D17B2-10BD-4A66-BF82-A036384D7995@aol.com> References: <490D17B2-10BD-4A66-BF82-A036384D7995@aol.com> Message-ID: Hi Dana, What a great idea.Ok now bragging a bit. With year round weather, 1 hour Amazon deliveries (yes!), and Grubhub etc. food deliveries, I have no excuse for not starting that tradition here. We live in an instant gratification zipcode. Your views are more spectacular than mine and I think everyone would enjoy a few views of your Belize in the winter. Thanks Cecilia On Thu, Dec 12, 2019, 6:52 PM Dana LeTendre via Rhodes22-list < rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote: > Okay, okay, I know it sounds like bragging, but every full moon with > weather permitting, we have a pizza delivered to the dock, motor 5 minutes > out to the reef, pick up a mooring ball, then eat pizza while we watch the > sun go down and the full moon come up. Wednesday night the weather > permitted and it was GREAT. I didn?t howl at the moon, but I did honk my > conch. > > Dana > ?Caye Dreams? > San Pedro, Belize > > Sent from my iPad > ???????? > > On Dec 12, 2019, at 2:44 PM, Michael Corley > wrote: > > I may not howl at the moon, but I will definitely stare in awe. > Moonlight sails are special . . . > > Mike > S/V Ranger > > On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 10:14 PM Chris Geankoplis < > chrisgeankoplis at gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Thanks for the kind thoughts,I promise to go outside and howl at the > moon. > > 12 times. Wish I was out on the Rhodes this evening. > > Chris Geankoplis > > Enosis > > > > > >> On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 7:17 PM C Gabriel <4cgabriel at gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> Dear Rhodes Family, > >> > >> Tonight in just a few hours (EDT) a special full moon will come, the > > winter > >> or Cold Christmas Moon. It occurs on December 12 at 12:12 am, a rare and > >> most auspicious combination of days and times. It is a time remember all > >> those who have gone before us and those who walk or sail beside us as > >> family. > >> > >> Blessings on your water journeys and your years ahead. Cecilia and > > Charles > >> > > > > From luis.guzman.ve at gmail.com Fri Dec 13 08:30:19 2019 From: luis.guzman.ve at gmail.com (Luis Guzman) Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2019 08:30:19 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] A Special Full Moon In-Reply-To: References: <490D17B2-10BD-4A66-BF82-A036384D7995@aol.com> Message-ID: <8FEA60D8-F350-410D-8B3C-C8A375FAC1F0@gmail.com> My boat is in my back yard getting prepped for a bottom job. Though, I?m still going to order pizza and watch the moon from inside the cockpit. S/V Aquetzali Luis A. Guzm?n II http://www.TropicalMinds.com 941 580-1577 > On Dec 12, 2019, at 9:07 PM, C Gabriel <4cgabriel at gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Dana, > > What a great idea.Ok now bragging a bit. With year round weather, 1 hour > Amazon deliveries (yes!), and Grubhub etc. food deliveries, I have no > excuse for not starting that tradition here. We live in an instant > gratification zipcode. Your views are more spectacular than mine and I > think everyone would enjoy a few views of your Belize in the winter. > > Thanks Cecilia > > On Thu, Dec 12, 2019, 6:52 PM Dana LeTendre via Rhodes22-list < > rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote: > >> Okay, okay, I know it sounds like bragging, but every full moon with >> weather permitting, we have a pizza delivered to the dock, motor 5 minutes >> out to the reef, pick up a mooring ball, then eat pizza while we watch the >> sun go down and the full moon come up. Wednesday night the weather >> permitted and it was GREAT. I didn?t howl at the moon, but I did honk my >> conch. >> >> Dana >> ?Caye Dreams? >> San Pedro, Belize >> >> Sent from my iPad >> ???????? >> >> On Dec 12, 2019, at 2:44 PM, Michael Corley >> wrote: >> >> I may not howl at the moon, but I will definitely stare in awe. >> Moonlight sails are special . . . >> >> Mike >> S/V Ranger >> >> On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 10:14 PM Chris Geankoplis < >> chrisgeankoplis at gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Thanks for the kind thoughts,I promise to go outside and howl at the >> moon. >>> 12 times. Wish I was out on the Rhodes this evening. >>> Chris Geankoplis >>> Enosis >>> >>> >>>> On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 7:17 PM C Gabriel <4cgabriel at gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear Rhodes Family, >>>> >>>> Tonight in just a few hours (EDT) a special full moon will come, the >>> winter >>>> or Cold Christmas Moon. It occurs on December 12 at 12:12 am, a rare and >>>> most auspicious combination of days and times. It is a time remember all >>>> those who have gone before us and those who walk or sail beside us as >>>> family. >>>> >>>> Blessings on your water journeys and your years ahead. Cecilia and >>> Charles >>>> >>> >> >> From jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com Fri Dec 13 12:11:10 2019 From: jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com (Jesse Shumaker) Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2019 10:11:10 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Rhodes22-list] A Special Full Moon In-Reply-To: <8FEA60D8-F350-410D-8B3C-C8A375FAC1F0@gmail.com> References: <490D17B2-10BD-4A66-BF82-A036384D7995@aol.com> <8FEA60D8-F350-410D-8B3C-C8A375FAC1F0@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1576257070418-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Since you mentioned bottom job, I'm curious if you (or anyone on the list) have had to sand down the original bottom paint from before and apply a sealer before reapplying bottom paint. I was able to secure a slip next year so bottom paint has become a consideration for me. Fortunately my boat already has the bottom paint from GB (it's the orange ablative) in fair condition since it hasn't ever sat in the water for an extended period: it has always been on a trailer or on a lift. The owner of the local sailboat shop took a look at my boat and he mentioned that it did not appear there was sealer under the bottom paint. He mentioned that if blisters show up when I haul it out next year, then it would be best to sand off the bottom paint and apply sealer and then bottom paint on top of that. Just curious if any one else has had to go back and apply sealer before applying more bottom paint. Thanks for any insight on this. -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ From gstewart8 at cogeco.ca Fri Dec 13 16:20:08 2019 From: gstewart8 at cogeco.ca (Graham Stewart) Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2019 16:20:08 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] A Special Full Moon In-Reply-To: <1576257070418-0.post@n5.nabble.com> References: <490D17B2-10BD-4A66-BF82-A036384D7995@aol.com> <8FEA60D8-F350-410D-8B3C-C8A375FAC1F0@gmail.com> <1576257070418-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Message-ID: <002401d5b1fb$1a2c5bc0$4e851340$@ca> Jesse: I redid the bottom of my boat a few years back and, so far as I can tell it was the first complete strip and repair in its 40 year life. It can be a big and unpleasant task if you have osmotic blistering. I did. I used MANY layers of paint stripper for boats and a scraper to remove the old paint. I really didn't want to sand the old antifouling paint because the dust is so toxic. Even so, you want to protect the ground and you so that you can clean the site thoroughly afterwards. Once the paint is mostly removed any osmotic blistering will become very obvious as the tops of the bumps will come clean before the valleys between them. I then used a dremmel with an abrasive drum to grind out all of the disks down through the gel coat to the substrate - all 100 million of them. Ok, that is an exaggeration but if the bottom is too bad it might be worth having a professional soda blast the bottom to completely remove the gel coat and then have the surface rebuilt by a professional - preferably in epoxy. Once the bottom is stripped it needs to dry out thoroughly and that can take months. It is best to strip it in the fall and let it dry all winter. Once dry all of the blister holes need to be filled with epoxy paste. There are a tone of YouTube videos and online instructions about this part of the process and you would be well advised to take the time to become familiar with the process. Once the bottom is ready it is essential to give it a very thick epoxy barrier coat. This is far more than a "sealer" coat. The two major options are epoxy from a supplier like West system or use Interlux 2000E. Although I have a lot of experience with West System epoxy I chose to go with the Interlux 200E and I am glad I did. It is also an epoxy but also contains tiny metal disks. It looks and goes on like paint easily with a roller. It comes in white and grey. Get both and alternate the colors. Otherwise you will miss areas very easily. I bought a gallon of each and used it all. I think they recommend 5 coats but I applied 6 because I had the paint. As soon as the coating tacks up you can apply another so over a day you can apply at least three coats. No sanding is required between coats so long as you apply each coat before the previous one cures. Applying the coating is trivial compared to the work involved in preparing the bottom so I think it would be insane to skip the barrier coat. If your bottom has no osmosis consider yourself blessed. Even so I would definitely adding an epoxy barrier coat. I have attached a few photos of the process. Graham Stewart Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 Kingston Ontario -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Jesse Shumaker Sent: Friday, December 13, 2019 12:11 PM To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] A Special Full Moon Since you mentioned bottom job, I'm curious if you (or anyone on the list) have had to sand down the original bottom paint from before and apply a sealer before reapplying bottom paint. I was able to secure a slip next year so bottom paint has become a consideration for me. Fortunately my boat already has the bottom paint from GB (it's the orange ablative) in fair condition since it hasn't ever sat in the water for an extended period: it has always been on a trailer or on a lift. The owner of the local sailboat shop took a look at my boat and he mentioned that it did not appear there was sealer under the bottom paint. He mentioned that if blisters show up when I haul it out next year, then it would be best to sand off the bottom paint and apply sealer and then bottom paint on top of that. Just curious if any one else has had to go back and apply sealer before applying more bottom paint. Thanks for any insight on this. -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Bottom showing blisters July 2014.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 368625 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Fairing completed August 2014.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 335353 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Osmosis repair Aug 2014.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 190981 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SafeStrip.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 150542 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com Sat Dec 14 09:56:18 2019 From: jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com (Jesse Shumaker) Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2019 07:56:18 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Rhodes22-list] A Special Full Moon In-Reply-To: <002401d5b1fb$1a2c5bc0$4e851340$@ca> References: <490D17B2-10BD-4A66-BF82-A036384D7995@aol.com> <8FEA60D8-F350-410D-8B3C-C8A375FAC1F0@gmail.com> <1576257070418-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <002401d5b1fb$1a2c5bc0$4e851340$@ca> Message-ID: <1576335378679-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Graham, thanks for the detailed explanation and photos. It sounds like the strip and repair was a major project! I'll have to see how the bottom of my boat looks after the first season in a slip and determine next steps from there. I see from the photos that you built a frame in your driveway to support your boat while you worked on the bottom. How did you get your boat up onto that? -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ From alexis.seigneurin at gmail.com Sat Dec 14 10:06:19 2019 From: alexis.seigneurin at gmail.com (Alexis Seigneurin) Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2019 15:06:19 +0000 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] A Special Full Moon In-Reply-To: <1576335378679-0.post@n5.nabble.com> References: <490D17B2-10BD-4A66-BF82-A036384D7995@aol.com> <8FEA60D8-F350-410D-8B3C-C8A375FAC1F0@gmail.com> <1576257070418-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <002401d5b1fb$1a2c5bc0$4e851340$@ca>,<1576335378679-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Message-ID: I kept my boat in the water (Deltaville, VA) for 8 months this year and just hauled out a couple of weeks ago. The paint was VC17, which is an ablative paint. All it takes is cleaning with a hose, lightly sanding then a fresh coat of paint! Alexis Alexis ________________________________ From: Rhodes22-list on behalf of Jesse Shumaker Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2019 9:39 AM To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] A Special Full Moon Graham, thanks for the detailed explanation and photos. It sounds like the strip and repair was a major project! I'll have to see how the bottom of my boat looks after the first season in a slip and determine next steps from there. I see from the photos that you built a frame in your driveway to support your boat while you worked on the bottom. How did you get your boat up onto that? -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ From gstewart8 at cogeco.ca Sat Dec 14 10:45:15 2019 From: gstewart8 at cogeco.ca (Graham Stewart) Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2019 10:45:15 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] boat lift In-Reply-To: <1576335378679-0.post@n5.nabble.com> References: <490D17B2-10BD-4A66-BF82-A036384D7995@aol.com> <8FEA60D8-F350-410D-8B3C-C8A375FAC1F0@gmail.com> <1576257070418-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <002401d5b1fb$1a2c5bc0$4e851340$@ca> <1576335378679-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Message-ID: <003b01d5b295$7c73c210$755b4630$@ca> Jesse: I built a large boat lift to enable me to work on the bottom as I knew it would be a big job and I wanted to be able to get under the boat while sitting. I also had to do some major reconstruction of the keel that required that I get right under the bottom of the keel. I further justified the lift by virtue of the fact that I have two other boats and I can use it to clean and bottom paint them as well. Otherwise, the lift would be overkill. I simply back the boat into the lift on its trailer, lift the boat (I use two 2-ton chain hoists) and remove the trailer. I then place a cross member under the hull with a vertical support for insurance should the boat drop on my head while I am under the keel as that would likely ruin my whole day. The cross piece also stabilizes the boat and avoids having it rock back and forth as I work on the hull. It is surprising how much the boat will swing just with a sanding or scrubbing action if the cross piece is not in place. It is like a pendulum and each swing gets bidder as the momentum increases. The rig has removable wheels so I can store it in my neighbors' field. I have attached a better picture of the lift. The vertical legs are 6x6" 12' long. I made the space between the verticals 9'. It works but 10' or greater would have been better. The diagonal bracing was placed on the exterior in order to be able to lift the boat higher. For regular bottom work where the lift does not need to be so high the bracing could be left inside the main frame saving space and material. My neighbors call the lift the "gallows" and wonder what I use it for. I like to keep them guessing. Graham Stewart Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 Kingston Ontario -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Jesse Shumaker Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2019 9:56 AM To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] A Special Full Moon Graham, thanks for the detailed explanation and photos. It sounds like the strip and repair was a major project! I'll have to see how the bottom of my boat looks after the first season in a slip and determine next steps from there. I see from the photos that you built a frame in your driveway to support your boat while you worked on the bottom. How did you get your boat up onto that? -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Ariel in lift June 17, 2014.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 223467 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gstewart8 at cogeco.ca Sat Dec 14 10:54:03 2019 From: gstewart8 at cogeco.ca (Graham Stewart) Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2019 10:54:03 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] A Special Full Moon In-Reply-To: References: <490D17B2-10BD-4A66-BF82-A036384D7995@aol.com> <8FEA60D8-F350-410D-8B3C-C8A375FAC1F0@gmail.com> <1576257070418-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <002401d5b1fb$1a2c5bc0$4e851340$@ca> <1576335378679-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Message-ID: <003f01d5b296$b709a9c0$251cfd40$@ca> Alex: The work on the bottom I described is a once-in-lifetime project made necessary by 40 years of annual bottom paint and the development of extensive blistering in the gel coat. My normal routine is exactly as you describe. When I say "lifetime", I am referring to my lifetime. I think the boat can last forever. Even in another 40 years I probably won't be interested in doing the work again. Graham -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Alexis Seigneurin Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2019 10:06 AM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List; The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] A Special Full Moon I kept my boat in the water (Deltaville, VA) for 8 months this year and just hauled out a couple of weeks ago. The paint was VC17, which is an ablative paint. All it takes is cleaning with a hose, lightly sanding then a fresh coat of paint! Alexis Alexis ________________________________ From: Rhodes22-list on behalf of Jesse Shumaker Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2019 9:39 AM To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] A Special Full Moon Graham, thanks for the detailed explanation and photos. It sounds like the strip and repair was a major project! I'll have to see how the bottom of my boat looks after the first season in a slip and determine next steps from there. I see from the photos that you built a frame in your driveway to support your boat while you worked on the bottom. How did you get your boat up onto that? -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ From jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com Sat Dec 14 10:54:34 2019 From: jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com (Jesse Shumaker) Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2019 09:54:34 -0600 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] boat lift In-Reply-To: <003b01d5b295$7c73c210$755b4630$@ca> References: <490D17B2-10BD-4A66-BF82-A036384D7995@aol.com> <8FEA60D8-F350-410D-8B3C-C8A375FAC1F0@gmail.com> <1576257070418-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <002401d5b1fb$1a2c5bc0$4e851340$@ca> <1576335378679-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <003b01d5b295$7c73c210$755b4630$@ca> Message-ID: Wow, that is impressive! Seems like a helpful and safe setup. I can see why your neighbors named it. Without a boat, it would look a bit ominous. On Sat, Dec 14, 2019, 9:45 AM Graham Stewart wrote: > Jesse: > I built a large boat lift to enable me to work on the bottom as I knew it > would be a big job and I wanted to be able to get under the boat while > sitting. I also had to do some major reconstruction of the keel that > required that I get right under the bottom of the keel. I further justified > the lift by virtue of the fact that I have two other boats and I can use it > to clean and bottom paint them as well. Otherwise, the lift would be > overkill. > > I simply back the boat into the lift on its trailer, lift the boat (I use > two 2-ton chain hoists) and remove the trailer. I then place a cross member > under the hull with a vertical support for insurance should the boat drop > on > my head while I am under the keel as that would likely ruin my whole day. > The cross piece also stabilizes the boat and avoids having it rock back and > forth as I work on the hull. It is surprising how much the boat will swing > just with a sanding or scrubbing action if the cross piece is not in place. > It is like a pendulum and each swing gets bidder as the momentum increases. > > > The rig has removable wheels so I can store it in my neighbors' field. > > I have attached a better picture of the lift. The vertical legs are 6x6" > 12' > long. I made the space between the verticals 9'. It works but 10' or > greater > would have been better. The diagonal bracing was placed on the exterior in > order to be able to lift the boat higher. For regular bottom work where the > lift does not need to be so high the bracing could be left inside the main > frame saving space and material. > > My neighbors call the lift the "gallows" and wonder what I use it for. I > like to keep them guessing. > > > Graham Stewart > Agile 1976 Rhodes 22 > Kingston Ontario > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf > Of > Jesse Shumaker > Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2019 9:56 AM > To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] A Special Full Moon > > Graham, thanks for the detailed explanation and photos. It sounds like the > strip and repair was a major project! I'll have to see how the bottom of > my > boat looks after the first season in a slip and determine next steps from > there. > > I see from the photos that you built a frame in your driveway to support > your boat while you worked on the bottom. How did you get your boat up > onto > that? > > > > -- > Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: Ariel in lift June 17, 2014.jpg > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 223467 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: < > http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20191214/75e7d267/attachment.jpg > > > From alexis.seigneurin at gmail.com Sat Dec 14 17:58:01 2019 From: alexis.seigneurin at gmail.com (Alexis Seigneurin) Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2019 22:58:01 +0000 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] A Special Full Moon In-Reply-To: <003f01d5b296$b709a9c0$251cfd40$@ca> References: <490D17B2-10BD-4A66-BF82-A036384D7995@aol.com> <8FEA60D8-F350-410D-8B3C-C8A375FAC1F0@gmail.com> <1576257070418-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <002401d5b1fb$1a2c5bc0$4e851340$@ca> <1576335378679-0.post@n5.nabble.com> , <003f01d5b296$b709a9c0$251cfd40$@ca> Message-ID: Oh, yes, Graham, I certainly didn?t mean to say what you went through was not worth it. I guess it just depends on the condition of the boat and the work that needs to be done. Your setup to lift the boat is seriously impressive. I?d be scared to go through such a large project myself! Alexis ________________________________ From: Rhodes22-list on behalf of Graham Stewart Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2019 10:54 AM To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] A Special Full Moon Alex: The work on the bottom I described is a once-in-lifetime project made necessary by 40 years of annual bottom paint and the development of extensive blistering in the gel coat. My normal routine is exactly as you describe. When I say "lifetime", I am referring to my lifetime. I think the boat can last forever. Even in another 40 years I probably won't be interested in doing the work again. Graham -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Alexis Seigneurin Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2019 10:06 AM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List; The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] A Special Full Moon I kept my boat in the water (Deltaville, VA) for 8 months this year and just hauled out a couple of weeks ago. The paint was VC17, which is an ablative paint. All it takes is cleaning with a hose, lightly sanding then a fresh coat of paint! Alexis Alexis ________________________________ From: Rhodes22-list on behalf of Jesse Shumaker Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2019 9:39 AM To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] A Special Full Moon Graham, thanks for the detailed explanation and photos. It sounds like the strip and repair was a major project! I'll have to see how the bottom of my boat looks after the first season in a slip and determine next steps from there. I see from the photos that you built a frame in your driveway to support your boat while you worked on the bottom. How did you get your boat up onto that? -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ From mweisner at ebsmed.com Sat Dec 14 18:14:59 2019 From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner) Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2019 18:14:59 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] New electric propulsion for boats Message-ID: <033a01d5b2d4$511996a0$f34cc3e0$@ebsmed.com> I just read a story about an electric propulsion system for boats based on the way a fish fin moves: https://plugboats.com/amazing-new-electric-boat-motor-based-on-fish-fins/ OK Stan, I will expect to see one fitted in a Rhodes 22 at the Annapolis US Sailboat 2020 show. Mike s/v Wind Lass ('91) Nissequogue River, NY From sloopblueheron at gmail.com Sat Dec 14 18:55:21 2019 From: sloopblueheron at gmail.com (Rick Lange) Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2019 18:55:21 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] New electric propulsion for boats In-Reply-To: <033a01d5b2d4$511996a0$f34cc3e0$@ebsmed.com> References: <033a01d5b2d4$511996a0$f34cc3e0$@ebsmed.com> Message-ID: Mike, The R22 already has this feature, called sculling the rudder. Kick up the rudder blade and swing it back and forth with the tiller. Although not electric, it gives you a good cardio instead. Regards, Rick Lange On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 6:15 PM Michael D. Weisner wrote: > I just read a story about an electric propulsion system for boats based on > the way a fish fin moves: > > https://plugboats.com/amazing-new-electric-boat-motor-based-on-fish-fins/ > > > > OK Stan, I will expect to see one fitted in a Rhodes 22 at the Annapolis US > Sailboat 2020 show. > > > > Mike > > s/v Wind Lass ('91) > > Nissequogue River, NY > > > > > > From a_czerwonky at yahoo.com Sat Dec 14 19:31:32 2019 From: a_czerwonky at yahoo.com (Art Czerwonky) Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2019 00:31:32 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Rhodes22-list] New electric propulsion for boats In-Reply-To: References: <033a01d5b2d4$511996a0$f34cc3e0$@ebsmed.com> Message-ID: <2143291666.8951649.1576369892352@mail.yahoo.com> Not a revolutionary option, Mike. I developed a skulling fin on my rudder in '07, no electricity needed.? Flipping the rudder is more difficult and makes directional control somewhat sloppy.Art Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 6:56 PM, Rick Lange wrote: Mike, The R22 already has this feature, called sculling the rudder.? Kick up the rudder blade and swing it back and forth with the tiller.? Although not electric, it gives you a good cardio instead. Regards, Rick Lange On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 6:15 PM Michael D. Weisner wrote: > I just read a story about an electric propulsion system for boats based on > the way a fish fin moves: > > https://plugboats.com/amazing-new-electric-boat-motor-based-on-fish-fins/ > > > > OK Stan, I will expect to see one fitted in a Rhodes 22 at the Annapolis US > Sailboat 2020 show. > > > > Mike > > s/v Wind Lass ('91) > > Nissequogue River, NY > > > > > > From stan at generalboats.com Sat Dec 14 20:15:05 2019 From: stan at generalboats.com (stan) Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2019 20:15:05 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] New electric propulsion for boats In-Reply-To: <033a01d5b2d4$511996a0$f34cc3e0$@ebsmed.com> References: <033a01d5b2d4$511996a0$f34cc3e0$@ebsmed.com> Message-ID: <2a4f677a-b18e-5172-f10b-5f947abc1859@generalboats.com> Yeah Mike, Thanks to my elite staff, already tuned into it and it will be at the show Oct 8th - if it proves to be the way to go. Got one of my fishy friends looking into it. On 12/14/19 6:14 PM, Michael D. Weisner wrote: > I just read a story about an electric propulsion system for boats based on > the way a fish fin moves: > > https://plugboats.com/amazing-new-electric-boat-motor-based-on-fish-fins/ > > > > OK Stan, I will expect to see one fitted in a Rhodes 22 at the Annapolis US > Sailboat 2020 show. > > > > Mike > > s/v Wind Lass ('91) > > Nissequogue River, NY > > > > > > > From cjlowe at sssnet.com Sat Dec 14 20:27:55 2019 From: cjlowe at sssnet.com (cjlowe at sssnet.com) Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2019 20:27:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Rhodes22-list] A Special Full Moon In-Reply-To: References: <490D17B2-10BD-4A66-BF82-A036384D7995@aol.com> <8FEA60D8-F350-410D-8B3C-C8A375FAC1F0@gmail.com> <1576257070418-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <002401d5b1fb$1a2c5bc0$4e851340$@ca> <1576335378679-0.post@n5.nabble.com> , <003f01d5b296$b709a9c0$251cfd40$@ca> Message-ID: <51563.24.140.30.102.1576373275.squirrel@quickpop.sssnet.com> I cam up with a more compact set up . If you look in the archives June 2010 under the story-- It was a dark and stormy night is a link to it. Jerry Lowe Oh, yes, Graham, I certainly didn?t mean to say what you went through was > not worth it. I guess it just depends on the condition of the boat and the > work that needs to be done. > > Your setup to lift the boat is seriously impressive. I?d be scared to go > through such a large project myself! > > Alexis > > > ________________________________ > From: Rhodes22-list on behalf of > Graham Stewart > Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2019 10:54 AM > To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] A Special Full Moon > > Alex: > > The work on the bottom I described is a once-in-lifetime project made > necessary by 40 years of annual bottom paint and the development of > extensive blistering in the gel coat. My normal routine is exactly as you > describe. > > When I say "lifetime", I am referring to my lifetime. I think the boat can > last forever. Even in another 40 years I probably won't be interested in > doing the work again. > > Graham > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf > Of > Alexis Seigneurin > Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2019 10:06 AM > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List; The Rhodes 22 Email List > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] A Special Full Moon > > I kept my boat in the water (Deltaville, VA) for 8 months this year and > just > hauled out a couple of weeks ago. The paint was VC17, which is an ablative > paint. All it takes is cleaning with a hose, lightly sanding then a fresh > coat of paint! > > Alexis > > Alexis > > ________________________________ > From: Rhodes22-list on behalf of > Jesse > Shumaker > Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2019 9:39 AM > To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] A Special Full Moon > > Graham, thanks for the detailed explanation and photos. It sounds like the > strip and repair was a major project! I'll have to see how the bottom of > my > boat looks after the first season in a slip and determine next steps from > there. > > I see from the photos that you built a frame in your driveway to support > your boat while you worked on the bottom. How did you get your boat up > onto > that? > > > > -- > Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ > > From Roger_Pihlaja at msn.com Mon Dec 16 11:35:49 2019 From: Roger_Pihlaja at msn.com (ROGER PIHLAJA) Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 16:35:49 +0000 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Protective Tie-Down Pads For Trailering Straps Message-ID: Hi All, This thread was from at least a week ago and I apologize for the delay in finding the information. The attached file shows a product designed to prevent chafing damage to the hull and tie-down straps while you are trailering. The pads are made of a very soft durometer PVC rubber that is designed to slip onto the tie-down strap. Once installed, the pad can be slid along the strap to wherever it needs to go. The soft rubber pad goes between the strap and the part of the hull or trailer you want to protect. I use two of these pads on each of the stern tie down straps on my trailer. My pads have many years and many miles of use and they don?t seem to be suffering any signs UV damage like cracking or embrittlement. More important, the pads have completely eliminated any chafing damage on the hull from trailering. I found these at Overton?s; but, I?ve seen them at other venders and in other sizes as well. Vender: Overton?s (800) 334-6541 www.Overtons.com Protective Tie-Down Pads ? Pair Item No: 315293 $5.69/Pair + S&H [cid:image002.png at 01D5B404.F2DC7260] Roger Pihlaja S/V Dynamic Equilibrium Sent from Mail for Windows 10 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: FD7DD37D03164B2C8068E46E066BCBF5.png Type: image/png Size: 147255 bytes Desc: FD7DD37D03164B2C8068E46E066BCBF5.png URL: From gramille at tds.net Tue Dec 17 13:09:33 2019 From: gramille at tds.net (gramille) Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 11:09:33 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Rhodes22-list] R22 capsize in Force 10 Message-ID: <1576606173616-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Did any of you read the article in the latest issue of Small Craft Advisor about the loss of a R22 in Long Islands Great South Bay? Sobering reading! Have a Happy New Year full of safe sailing adventures. Graham in snowy Vermont -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ From rlowe at vt.edu Tue Dec 17 13:26:29 2019 From: rlowe at vt.edu (Lowe, Rob) Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 18:26:29 +0000 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] R22 capsize in Force 10 In-Reply-To: <1576606173616-0.post@n5.nabble.com> References: <1576606173616-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Message-ID: First I've heard of it. Anyone have any details? - rob -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of gramille Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2019 1:10 PM To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org Subject: [Rhodes22-list] R22 capsize in Force 10 Did any of you read the article in the latest issue of Small Craft Advisor about the loss of a R22 in Long Islands Great South Bay? Sobering reading! Have a Happy New Year full of safe sailing adventures. Graham in snowy Vermont -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ From keywestseccorp at verizon.net Tue Dec 17 13:38:03 2019 From: keywestseccorp at verizon.net (Mark West) Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 18:38:03 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Rhodes22-list] R22 capsize in Force 10 In-Reply-To: <1576606173616-0.post@n5.nabble.com> References: <1576606173616-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Message-ID: <769810679.280849.1576607883282@mail.yahoo.com> is that in issue #119? -----Original Message----- From: gramille To: rhodes22-list Sent: Tue, Dec 17, 2019 12:52 pm Subject: [Rhodes22-list] R22 capsize in Force 10 Did any of you read the article in the latest issue of Small Craft Advisor about the loss of a R22 in Long Islands Great South Bay? Sobering reading! Have a Happy New Year full of safe sailing adventures. Graham in snowy Vermont -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ From chrisgeankoplis at gmail.com Thu Dec 19 08:49:09 2019 From: chrisgeankoplis at gmail.com (Chris Geankoplis) Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 08:49:09 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] R22 capsize in Force 10 In-Reply-To: <1576606173616-0.post@n5.nabble.com> References: <1576606173616-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Message-ID: details? On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 12:53 PM gramille wrote: > Did any of you read the article in the latest issue of Small Craft Advisor > about the loss of a R22 in Long Islands Great South Bay? Sobering reading! > Have a Happy New Year full of safe sailing adventures. > Graham in snowy Vermont > > > > -- > Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ > From stan at generalboats.com Thu Dec 19 12:07:35 2019 From: stan at generalboats.com (stan) Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 12:07:35 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] R22 capsize in Force 10 In-Reply-To: References: <1576606173616-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Message-ID: Force 10.? That is 55 mph, and up, winds with giant waves.? I guess we will have to lower any claims to 50 mph winds. I have spent most off my sailing days on the Great South Bay.? It is so shallow it is impossible to lose anything. And although on the ocean side of Long Island, there never was anything close to a force 10 storm in my day.? Global warming? We did list once in the middle of the night when low tide had the family sleeping stacked up on top of each other. On 12/19/19 8:49 AM, Chris Geankoplis wrote: > details? > > On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 12:53 PM gramille wrote: > >> Did any of you read the article in the latest issue of Small Craft Advisor >> about the loss of a R22 in Long Islands Great South Bay? Sobering reading! >> Have a Happy New Year full of safe sailing adventures. >> Graham in snowy Vermont >> >> >> >> -- >> Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ >> > From sloopblueheron at gmail.com Thu Dec 19 13:58:07 2019 From: sloopblueheron at gmail.com (Rick Lange) Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 13:58:07 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] R22 capsize in Force 10 In-Reply-To: References: <1576606173616-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Message-ID: Was the boat sailing or laying to? Rick Lange On Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 12:07 PM stan wrote: > > Force 10. That is 55 mph, and up, winds with giant waves. I guess we > will have to lower any claims to 50 mph winds. > > I have spent most off my sailing days on the Great South Bay. It is so > shallow it is impossible to lose anything. And although on the ocean > side of Long Island, there never was anything close to a force 10 storm > in my day. Global warming? > > We did list once in the middle of the night when low tide had the family > sleeping stacked up on top of each other. > > > On 12/19/19 8:49 AM, Chris Geankoplis wrote: > > details? > > > > On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 12:53 PM gramille wrote: > > > >> Did any of you read the article in the latest issue of Small Craft > Advisor > >> about the loss of a R22 in Long Islands Great South Bay? Sobering > reading! > >> Have a Happy New Year full of safe sailing adventures. > >> Graham in snowy Vermont > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ > >> > > > > From retiredtoby at gmail.com Fri Dec 20 11:33:31 2019 From: retiredtoby at gmail.com (Cary Tolbert) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 11:33:31 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] R22 capsize in Force 10 In-Reply-To: References: <1576606173616-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Message-ID: This popped up on my phone. The Rhodes 22 is in good company. Donna Lang on her second solo circumnavigation trip in her Southern Cross 28 , 1982 vintage, got caught in 50 mph winds and was knocked down and dis-masted. This is a Blue Water boat with a Dis./Bal. of 40%. It can happen to anyone. You can't mess with mother nature; well you can but your playing against the house. Cary Whisper '86 Radford,VA On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:58 PM Rick Lange wrote: > Was the boat sailing or laying to? > > Rick Lange > > On Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 12:07 PM stan wrote: > > > > > Force 10. That is 55 mph, and up, winds with giant waves. I guess we > > will have to lower any claims to 50 mph winds. > > > > I have spent most off my sailing days on the Great South Bay. It is so > > shallow it is impossible to lose anything. And although on the ocean > > side of Long Island, there never was anything close to a force 10 storm > > in my day. Global warming? > > > > We did list once in the middle of the night when low tide had the family > > sleeping stacked up on top of each other. > > > > > > On 12/19/19 8:49 AM, Chris Geankoplis wrote: > > > details? > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 12:53 PM gramille wrote: > > > > > >> Did any of you read the article in the latest issue of Small Craft > > Advisor > > >> about the loss of a R22 in Long Islands Great South Bay? Sobering > > reading! > > >> Have a Happy New Year full of safe sailing adventures. > > >> Graham in snowy Vermont > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ > > >> > > > > > > > > From mtroy at atlanticbb.net Fri Dec 20 17:29:49 2019 From: mtroy at atlanticbb.net (Mary Lou Troy) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 17:29:49 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] R22 capsize in Force 10 In-Reply-To: References: <1576606173616-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Message-ID: So I just read the Small Craft Advisor article (Issue #121, p20) article and I'm rather annoyed. I'll need to read the article again when I have more time but here is a quick and somewhat careful synopsis. The author writes about sailing his Sailmaster 22 (good boat, Sparkman & Stephens design) and getting caught in the same storm that capsized the R22. In many ways, it's a good article about what he did in the face of the storm and what he should have done better. He gets onto shaky ground when he starts talking about why the R22 capsized (he doesn't seem to have direct knowledge in spite of talking to the skipper of the R22 and is just speculating on how the design may have contributed to the capsize) and why his boat didn't. He makes at least one error and a couple errors of omission in talking about the design of the R22. Early on in the article the author quotes me from my chapter in "Sailing Small" quoting GB's website about the R22 being "uncapsizeable under sail." It's irrelevant as the R22 was motoring at the time as was the Sailmaster. Both evidently saw the storm while near the mouth of their home creek and both elected to make a run for the dock or at least sheltered water. The R22 was capsized. dismasted and "the salvage crew couldn't refloat the boat, so a crane was used to lift it onto a small barge." The Rhodes evidently had extensive damage to the bow and was uninsured. I'm planning on writing a letter to SCA correcting a couple of statements by the author and adding some thoughts of my own having had the R22 out in a significant squall as described in Sailing Small. If any Long Island Rhodies know more about the incident, I'd love to hear it. Mary Lou ex-R22 now Rosborough RF-246 Rock Hall, MD . On 12/20/2019 11:33 AM, Cary Tolbert wrote: > This popped up on my phone. The Rhodes 22 is in good company. > Donna Lang on her second solo circumnavigation trip in her Southern Cross > 28 , 1982 vintage, > got caught in 50 mph winds and was knocked down and dis-masted. This is a > Blue Water boat > with a Dis./Bal. of 40%. It can happen to anyone. You can't mess with > mother nature; well you can but your playing against the house. > > Cary > Whisper '86 > Radford,VA > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:58 PM Rick Lange wrote: > >> Was the boat sailing or laying to? >> >> Rick Lange >> >> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 12:07 PM stan wrote: >> >>> Force 10. That is 55 mph, and up, winds with giant waves. I guess we >>> will have to lower any claims to 50 mph winds. >>> >>> I have spent most off my sailing days on the Great South Bay. It is so >>> shallow it is impossible to lose anything. And although on the ocean >>> side of Long Island, there never was anything close to a force 10 storm >>> in my day. Global warming? >>> >>> We did list once in the middle of the night when low tide had the family >>> sleeping stacked up on top of each other. >>> >>> >>> On 12/19/19 8:49 AM, Chris Geankoplis wrote: >>>> details? >>>> >>>> On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 12:53 PM gramille wrote: >>>> >>>>> Did any of you read the article in the latest issue of Small Craft >>> Advisor >>>>> about the loss of a R22 in Long Islands Great South Bay? Sobering >>> reading! >>>>> Have a Happy New Year full of safe sailing adventures. >>>>> Graham in snowy Vermont >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ >>>>> >>> From rbeytagh at gmail.com Fri Dec 20 20:02:15 2019 From: rbeytagh at gmail.com (Richard Beytagh) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 20:02:15 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] R22 capsize in Force 10 In-Reply-To: References: <1576606173616-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Message-ID: If anyone has concerns about the Rhodes 22 being able to withstand extreme weather conditions have a look the attached. This was a boat I delivered to Port St Joe a couple of years ago. This area was hit by hurricane Mike head-on and this was the only boat in the marina that survived intact. I know it's not the same as being out at sea in a force 10, but it speaks spades when all others had been washed a way or sunk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOfAtfXoJ44&authuser=0 Go to around 2:30min to see the lone dark blue R22 still floating... ~~~ _/) ~~~ Richard Beytagh Phone: 828 337 0180 On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 5:30 PM Mary Lou Troy wrote: > So I just read the Small Craft Advisor article (Issue #121, p20) article > and I'm rather annoyed. I'll need to read the article again when I have > more time but here is a quick and somewhat careful synopsis. > > The author writes about sailing his Sailmaster 22 (good boat, Sparkman & > Stephens design) and getting caught in the same storm that capsized the > R22. In many ways, it's a good article about what he did in the face of > the storm and what he should have done better. He gets onto shaky ground > when he starts talking about why the R22 capsized (he doesn't seem to > have direct knowledge in spite of talking to the skipper of the R22 and > is just speculating on how the design may have contributed to the > capsize) and why his boat didn't. He makes at least one error and a > couple errors of omission in talking about the design of the R22. > > Early on in the article the author quotes me from my chapter in "Sailing > Small" quoting GB's website about the R22 being "uncapsizeable under > sail." It's irrelevant as the R22 was motoring at the time as was the > Sailmaster. Both evidently saw the storm while near the mouth of their > home creek and both elected to make a run for the dock or at least > sheltered water. The R22 was capsized. dismasted and "the salvage crew > couldn't refloat the boat, so a crane was used to lift it onto a small > barge." The Rhodes evidently had extensive damage to the bow and was > uninsured. > > I'm planning on writing a letter to SCA correcting a couple of > statements by the author and adding some thoughts of my own having had > the R22 out in a significant squall as described in Sailing Small. If > any Long Island Rhodies know more about the incident, I'd love to hear it. > > Mary Lou > ex-R22 > now Rosborough RF-246 > Rock Hall, MD > > . > > > On 12/20/2019 11:33 AM, Cary Tolbert wrote: > > This popped up on my phone. The Rhodes 22 is in good company. > > Donna Lang on her second solo circumnavigation trip in her Southern Cross > > 28 , 1982 vintage, > > got caught in 50 mph winds and was knocked down and dis-masted. This is a > > Blue Water boat > > with a Dis./Bal. of 40%. It can happen to anyone. You can't mess with > > mother nature; well you can but your playing against the house. > > > > Cary > > Whisper '86 > > Radford,VA > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:58 PM Rick Lange > wrote: > > > >> Was the boat sailing or laying to? > >> > >> Rick Lange > >> > >> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 12:07 PM stan wrote: > >> > >>> Force 10. That is 55 mph, and up, winds with giant waves. I guess we > >>> will have to lower any claims to 50 mph winds. > >>> > >>> I have spent most off my sailing days on the Great South Bay. It is so > >>> shallow it is impossible to lose anything. And although on the ocean > >>> side of Long Island, there never was anything close to a force 10 storm > >>> in my day. Global warming? > >>> > >>> We did list once in the middle of the night when low tide had the > family > >>> sleeping stacked up on top of each other. > >>> > >>> > >>> On 12/19/19 8:49 AM, Chris Geankoplis wrote: > >>>> details? > >>>> > >>>> On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 12:53 PM gramille wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Did any of you read the article in the latest issue of Small Craft > >>> Advisor > >>>>> about the loss of a R22 in Long Islands Great South Bay? Sobering > >>> reading! > >>>>> Have a Happy New Year full of safe sailing adventures. > >>>>> Graham in snowy Vermont > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ > >>>>> > >>> > > From mtroy at atlanticbb.net Sat Dec 21 07:45:28 2019 From: mtroy at atlanticbb.net (Mary Lou Troy) Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2019 07:45:28 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] R22 capsize in Force 10 In-Reply-To: References: <1576606173616-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Message-ID: <0c0af8ba-e8ae-7e24-2116-ef6519c6ebf3@atlanticbb.net> Thanks Richard. I had forgotten that one. I'll add it to the list I will cite in my letter to SCA. I'm probably not going to get to it until after the New Year so if anyone else would like to remind me of examples of how the R22 can handle squalls and storms. I've got the ones from the owners group FAQ. My point will be that any boat can be overcome by the right set of conditions but to attribute the loss of this R22 to supposed design flaws is a real stretch. Thanks, Mary Lou On 12/20/2019 8:02 PM, Richard Beytagh wrote: > If anyone has concerns about the Rhodes 22 being able to withstand extreme > weather conditions have a look the attached. This was a boat I delivered to > Port St Joe a couple of years ago. This area was hit by hurricane Mike > head-on and this was the only boat in the marina that survived intact. I > know it's not the same as being out at sea in a force 10, but it speaks > spades when all others had been washed a way or sunk: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOfAtfXoJ44&authuser=0 > > Go to around 2:30min to see the lone dark blue R22 still floating... > > > ~~~ _/) ~~~ > > Richard Beytagh > Phone: 828 337 0180 > > > On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 5:30 PM Mary Lou Troy wrote: > >> So I just read the Small Craft Advisor article (Issue #121, p20) article >> and I'm rather annoyed. I'll need to read the article again when I have >> more time but here is a quick and somewhat careful synopsis. >> >> The author writes about sailing his Sailmaster 22 (good boat, Sparkman & >> Stephens design) and getting caught in the same storm that capsized the >> R22. In many ways, it's a good article about what he did in the face of >> the storm and what he should have done better. He gets onto shaky ground >> when he starts talking about why the R22 capsized (he doesn't seem to >> have direct knowledge in spite of talking to the skipper of the R22 and >> is just speculating on how the design may have contributed to the >> capsize) and why his boat didn't. He makes at least one error and a >> couple errors of omission in talking about the design of the R22. >> >> Early on in the article the author quotes me from my chapter in "Sailing >> Small" quoting GB's website about the R22 being "uncapsizeable under >> sail." It's irrelevant as the R22 was motoring at the time as was the >> Sailmaster. Both evidently saw the storm while near the mouth of their >> home creek and both elected to make a run for the dock or at least >> sheltered water. The R22 was capsized. dismasted and "the salvage crew >> couldn't refloat the boat, so a crane was used to lift it onto a small >> barge." The Rhodes evidently had extensive damage to the bow and was >> uninsured. >> >> I'm planning on writing a letter to SCA correcting a couple of >> statements by the author and adding some thoughts of my own having had >> the R22 out in a significant squall as described in Sailing Small. If >> any Long Island Rhodies know more about the incident, I'd love to hear it. >> >> Mary Lou >> ex-R22 >> now Rosborough RF-246 >> Rock Hall, MD >> >> . >> >> >> On 12/20/2019 11:33 AM, Cary Tolbert wrote: >>> This popped up on my phone. The Rhodes 22 is in good company. >>> Donna Lang on her second solo circumnavigation trip in her Southern Cross >>> 28 , 1982 vintage, >>> got caught in 50 mph winds and was knocked down and dis-masted. This is a >>> Blue Water boat >>> with a Dis./Bal. of 40%. It can happen to anyone. You can't mess with >>> mother nature; well you can but your playing against the house. >>> >>> Cary >>> Whisper '86 >>> Radford,VA >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:58 PM Rick Lange >> wrote: >>>> Was the boat sailing or laying to? >>>> >>>> Rick Lange >>>> >>>> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 12:07 PM stan wrote: >>>> >>>>> Force 10. That is 55 mph, and up, winds with giant waves. I guess we >>>>> will have to lower any claims to 50 mph winds. >>>>> >>>>> I have spent most off my sailing days on the Great South Bay. It is so >>>>> shallow it is impossible to lose anything. And although on the ocean >>>>> side of Long Island, there never was anything close to a force 10 storm >>>>> in my day. Global warming? >>>>> >>>>> We did list once in the middle of the night when low tide had the >> family >>>>> sleeping stacked up on top of each other. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 12/19/19 8:49 AM, Chris Geankoplis wrote: >>>>>> details? >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 12:53 PM gramille wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Did any of you read the article in the latest issue of Small Craft >>>>> Advisor >>>>>>> about the loss of a R22 in Long Islands Great South Bay? Sobering >>>>> reading! >>>>>>> Have a Happy New Year full of safe sailing adventures. >>>>>>> Graham in snowy Vermont >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ >>>>>>> >> From chrisgeankoplis at gmail.com Sat Dec 21 10:24:45 2019 From: chrisgeankoplis at gmail.com (Chris Geankoplis) Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2019 10:24:45 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] R22 capsize in Force 10 In-Reply-To: <0c0af8ba-e8ae-7e24-2116-ef6519c6ebf3@atlanticbb.net> References: <1576606173616-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <0c0af8ba-e8ae-7e24-2116-ef6519c6ebf3@atlanticbb.net> Message-ID: If the Rhodes has as ?design? flaw then lots of Rhodes would have had these problems over the last 60 years. Anybody? Anybody? I?ve owned a Rhodes since 1976. Mine did actually capsize. Of course it took a tornado to knock it over while anchored in the ?pot? on Poplar Island. According to my buddy who was aboard and another eyewitness off the boat: The mast hit the mud (12 ft deep) and the boat ?pole vaulted? up then slowly drove the mast into the mud. Did the boat right itself? Nope, So technically a capsize. It popped right back up when we detached the stays and tabernacle pin. The entire weight of the boat was focused on the mast step. No structural damage. Design flaw? Can?t think of any other boat that would have survived as well as the Rhodes. Do I trust the Rhodes? With my life. 43 years and more than 10,000 miles of ocean, river. bay, and lake sailing I still am sailing the Rhodes. Chris Geankoplis ENOSIS On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 at 07:45, Mary Lou Troy wrote: > Thanks Richard. I had forgotten that one. I'll add it to the list I will > cite in my letter to SCA. > > I'm probably not going to get to it until after the New Year so if > anyone else would like to remind me of examples of how the R22 can > handle squalls and storms. I've got the ones from the owners group FAQ. > > My point will be that any boat can be overcome by the right set of > conditions but to attribute the loss of this R22 to supposed design > flaws is a real stretch. > > Thanks, > Mary Lou > > On 12/20/2019 8:02 PM, Richard Beytagh wrote: > > If anyone has concerns about the Rhodes 22 being able to withstand > extreme > > weather conditions have a look the attached. This was a boat I delivered > to > > Port St Joe a couple of years ago. This area was hit by hurricane Mike > > head-on and this was the only boat in the marina that survived intact. I > > know it's not the same as being out at sea in a force 10, but it speaks > > spades when all others had been washed a way or sunk: > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOfAtfXoJ44&authuser=0 > > > > Go to around 2:30min to see the lone dark blue R22 still floating... > > > > > > ~~~ _/) ~~~ > > > > Richard Beytagh > > Phone: 828 337 0180 > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 5:30 PM Mary Lou Troy > wrote: > > > >> So I just read the Small Craft Advisor article (Issue #121, p20) article > >> and I'm rather annoyed. I'll need to read the article again when I have > >> more time but here is a quick and somewhat careful synopsis. > >> > >> The author writes about sailing his Sailmaster 22 (good boat, Sparkman & > >> Stephens design) and getting caught in the same storm that capsized the > >> R22. In many ways, it's a good article about what he did in the face of > >> the storm and what he should have done better. He gets onto shaky ground > >> when he starts talking about why the R22 capsized (he doesn't seem to > >> have direct knowledge in spite of talking to the skipper of the R22 and > >> is just speculating on how the design may have contributed to the > >> capsize) and why his boat didn't. He makes at least one error and a > >> couple errors of omission in talking about the design of the R22. > >> > >> Early on in the article the author quotes me from my chapter in "Sailing > >> Small" quoting GB's website about the R22 being "uncapsizeable under > >> sail." It's irrelevant as the R22 was motoring at the time as was the > >> Sailmaster. Both evidently saw the storm while near the mouth of their > >> home creek and both elected to make a run for the dock or at least > >> sheltered water. The R22 was capsized. dismasted and "the salvage crew > >> couldn't refloat the boat, so a crane was used to lift it onto a small > >> barge." The Rhodes evidently had extensive damage to the bow and was > >> uninsured. > >> > >> I'm planning on writing a letter to SCA correcting a couple of > >> statements by the author and adding some thoughts of my own having had > >> the R22 out in a significant squall as described in Sailing Small. If > >> any Long Island Rhodies know more about the incident, I'd love to hear > it. > >> > >> Mary Lou > >> ex-R22 > >> now Rosborough RF-246 > >> Rock Hall, MD > >> > >> . > >> > >> > >> On 12/20/2019 11:33 AM, Cary Tolbert wrote: > >>> This popped up on my phone. The Rhodes 22 is in good company. > >>> Donna Lang on her second solo circumnavigation trip in her Southern > Cross > >>> 28 , 1982 vintage, > >>> got caught in 50 mph winds and was knocked down and dis-masted. This > is a > >>> Blue Water boat > >>> with a Dis./Bal. of 40%. It can happen to anyone. You can't mess with > >>> mother nature; well you can but your playing against the house. > >>> > >>> Cary > >>> Whisper '86 > >>> Radford,VA > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:58 PM Rick Lange > >> wrote: > >>>> Was the boat sailing or laying to? > >>>> > >>>> Rick Lange > >>>> > >>>> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 12:07 PM stan wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Force 10. That is 55 mph, and up, winds with giant waves. I guess > we > >>>>> will have to lower any claims to 50 mph winds. > >>>>> > >>>>> I have spent most off my sailing days on the Great South Bay. It is > so > >>>>> shallow it is impossible to lose anything. And although on the ocean > >>>>> side of Long Island, there never was anything close to a force 10 > storm > >>>>> in my day. Global warming? > >>>>> > >>>>> We did list once in the middle of the night when low tide had the > >> family > >>>>> sleeping stacked up on top of each other. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On 12/19/19 8:49 AM, Chris Geankoplis wrote: > >>>>>> details? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 12:53 PM gramille wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Did any of you read the article in the latest issue of Small Craft > >>>>> Advisor > >>>>>>> about the loss of a R22 in Long Islands Great South Bay? Sobering > >>>>> reading! > >>>>>>> Have a Happy New Year full of safe sailing adventures. > >>>>>>> Graham in snowy Vermont > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>> Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ > >>>>>>> > >> > > From stan at generalboats.com Sat Dec 21 10:51:54 2019 From: stan at generalboats.com (stan) Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2019 10:51:54 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Fwd: NJ and NY HURRICANE SANDY In-Reply-To: <657201bf-12d4-f094-881b-a98fc0a1a896@generalboats.com> References: <657201bf-12d4-f094-881b-a98fc0a1a896@generalboats.com> Message-ID: Hurricane Sandy - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org ? wiki ? Hurricane_Sandy 1. 2. /Hurricane Sandy/was the deadliest and most destructive, as well as the strongest , hurricane of the 2012 Atlantic hurricane season. Inflicting nearly $70 billion?... go to: http://www.usedrhodes.com/owners-coop.html and scroll down to the last to pictures with their captions, on this page. I rest the honorable Judge Robert Baldi's case. stan and that is *not* all I have to say about that. From spreadgoodnews at gmail.com Sat Dec 21 13:39:23 2019 From: spreadgoodnews at gmail.com (Goodness) Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2019 13:39:23 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] R22 capsize in Force 10 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <67F0DEAB-B946-4F7A-8020-730ABDE8CDA6@gmail.com> Stan: Global warming is over since Trump became president. LOL I didnt read the article yet but makes you wonder if it pitch poled in shallow water and opened up the bow. > On Dec 19, 2019, at 12:07 PM, stan wrote: > > ? > Force 10. That is 55 mph, and up, winds with giant waves. I guess we will have to lower any claims to 50 mph winds. > > I have spent most off my sailing days on the Great South Bay. It is so shallow it is impossible to lose anything. And although on the ocean side of Long Island, there never was anything close to a force 10 storm in my day. Global warming? > > We did list once in the middle of the night when low tide had the family sleeping stacked up on top of each other. > > >> On 12/19/19 8:49 AM, Chris Geankoplis wrote: >> details? >> >>> On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 12:53 PM gramille wrote: >>> >>> Did any of you read the article in the latest issue of Small Craft Advisor >>> about the loss of a R22 in Long Islands Great South Bay? Sobering reading! >>> Have a Happy New Year full of safe sailing adventures. >>> Graham in snowy Vermont >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ >>> >> > From alexis.seigneurin at gmail.com Sun Dec 22 22:11:43 2019 From: alexis.seigneurin at gmail.com (Alexis Seigneurin) Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2019 03:11:43 +0000 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Water tank In-Reply-To: References: <1575917043198-0.post@n5.nabble.com>, Message-ID: Hi all, I just wanted to follow up on my water tank situation. I pulled the water tank from the boat today and... the label says it?s meant to be a gas tank! I also activated my water pump to pump antifreeze directly, and it worked fine, so this confirms the pump itself is fine, and the intake from the tank is clogged. While emptying the tank, I saw lots of (smelly) debris. I think I am just going to replace the tank at this point. It?s cheap enough to do so. Alexis [Image][Image] ________________________________ From: Alexis Seigneurin Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 10:19 PM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Water tank Thanks all for the suggestions. This gives me a few things to try. I will let you know of my progress fixing this problem. Alexis On Mon, Dec 9, 2019 at 1:28 PM Joe Dempsey > wrote: Alex, First of all, from reading on the List, there seem to be as many different water tanks as there are R22s! Mine is, of all things, a plastic Rubbermaid storage box!. Yours seems to be a more substantial and APPROVED type of container. I'd consider changing the pump. They're not expensive. You can probably get the old one out much easier, test it and if needed change it out. ----- Joe Dempsey s/v Respite Rhodes 22 1989/2005 Deltaville,VA -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1748179 bytes Desc: Image.jpeg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1094315 bytes Desc: Image.jpeg URL: From stan at generalboats.com Mon Dec 23 11:59:09 2019 From: stan at generalboats.com (stan) Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2019 11:59:09 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] not too late Message-ID: <511ab026-cc73-a311-a629-90f5053330c5@generalboats.com> For last minute shoppers: The Rhodes official parts site is up and running, even though it can never ever be finished. ??? ??? ??? ? ? < www.rhodes22parts.com > Still, it might suggest some stocking filler promissory note for you to be announcing to your spouse (or to yourself) about the great Rhodes gift the recipient will be sailing with this new season. True, a lot of the pricing is not posted yet but what the hell, it's Christmas. Whatever the price we agree on it will be lower than any other Rhodes parts store. May this turn our to be the happiest of all memorable Happy Christmases for all Rhodies this year. stan at generalboats.com From tavares0947 at gmail.com Mon Dec 23 18:26:21 2019 From: tavares0947 at gmail.com (Todd Tavares) Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2019 18:26:21 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] not too late In-Reply-To: <511ab026-cc73-a311-a629-90f5053330c5@generalboats.com> References: <511ab026-cc73-a311-a629-90f5053330c5@generalboats.com> Message-ID: But the main site is still down? Todd Tavares tavares0947 at gmail.com On Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 11:59 AM stan wrote: > > For last minute shoppers: > > The Rhodes official parts site is up and running, even though it can > never ever be finished. > > < www.rhodes22parts.com > > > Still, it might suggest some stocking filler promissory note for you to > be announcing to your spouse (or to yourself) about the great Rhodes > gift the recipient will be sailing with this new season. > > True, a lot of the pricing is not posted yet but what the hell, it's > Christmas. Whatever the price we agree on it will be lower than any > other Rhodes parts store. > > May this turn our to be the happiest of all memorable Happy Christmases > for all Rhodies this year. > > stan at generalboats.com > > > > From chrisgeankoplis at gmail.com Mon Dec 23 19:40:44 2019 From: chrisgeankoplis at gmail.com (Chris Geankoplis) Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2019 19:40:44 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] not too late In-Reply-To: <511ab026-cc73-a311-a629-90f5053330c5@generalboats.com> References: <511ab026-cc73-a311-a629-90f5053330c5@generalboats.com> Message-ID: What a Cool site! It is so.....what's the word I am looking for?........Stanish! It may not have been conceived as a stand alone fun read, but it is. However on a more serious note. It is so expandable, and will always be growing. Great job Stan! Wish I could grab up a bunch of stuff including cushions but they would all have to fit in my one piece of luggage. Maybe I need a "stateside Rhodes" to take advantage of this site! Chris Geankoplis Enosis On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 11:59 AM stan wrote: > > For last minute shoppers: > > The Rhodes official parts site is up and running, even though it can > never ever be finished. > > < www.rhodes22parts.com > > > Still, it might suggest some stocking filler promissory note for you to > be announcing to your spouse (or to yourself) about the great Rhodes > gift the recipient will be sailing with this new season. > > True, a lot of the pricing is not posted yet but what the hell, it's > Christmas. Whatever the price we agree on it will be lower than any > other Rhodes parts store. > > May this turn our to be the happiest of all memorable Happy Christmases > for all Rhodies this year. > > stan at generalboats.com > > > > From 4cgabriel at gmail.com Mon Dec 23 20:12:24 2019 From: 4cgabriel at gmail.com (C Gabriel) Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2019 20:12:24 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] not too late In-Reply-To: References: <511ab026-cc73-a311-a629-90f5053330c5@generalboats.com> Message-ID: Todd, I agree. From newer cell phones and newer computers the sites appear to be down but if you fully qualify the site name (www.generalboats.com or http://www.generalboats.com) AND use a Browser and NOT an Android Google Search bar the sites are live. Many have tried to offer real working design changes. Without feedback, Stan writes his websites as they are..... Cecilia On Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 6:26 PM Todd Tavares wrote: > But the main site is still down? > > Todd Tavares > > tavares0947 at gmail.com > > On Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 11:59 AM stan wrote: > > > > > For last minute shoppers: > > > > The Rhodes official parts site is up and running, even though it can > > never ever be finished. > > > > < www.rhodes22parts.com > > > > > Still, it might suggest some stocking filler promissory note for you to > > be announcing to your spouse (or to yourself) about the great Rhodes > > gift the recipient will be sailing with this new season. > > > > True, a lot of the pricing is not posted yet but what the hell, it's > > Christmas. Whatever the price we agree on it will be lower than any > > other Rhodes parts store. > > > > May this turn our to be the happiest of all memorable Happy Christmases > > for all Rhodies this year. > > > > stan at generalboats.com > > > > > > > > > From stan at generalboats.com Mon Dec 23 20:30:51 2019 From: stan at generalboats.com (stan) Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2019 20:30:51 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] not too late In-Reply-To: References: <511ab026-cc73-a311-a629-90f5053330c5@generalboats.com> Message-ID: Thanks Chris.? Whenever I need someone to make my day I know where to find you somewhere in this world, that is at least my emails do. I think I forget to tell you, you have the entire Med surrounds. Have had several emails from an English speaking Israeli? couple (don't know how they know of the Rhodes) who want to buy one but want to sail one first.? I told them you would drop in when you were doing your next Med rounds.?? It will get you your standby State's Rhodes to do the Atlantic, Mississippi loop next time you are in the neighborhood. Love to join you on that one but too busy; have two new sites waiting in the wings to get into publishing condition, that will really change the marketing of direct buying and selling of used Rhodes. Stanish? (I'll drink to that, anyone have any organic tomato juice handy) On 12/23/19 7:40 PM, Chris Geankoplis wrote: > What a Cool site! It is so.....what's the word I am looking > for?........Stanish! It may not have been conceived as a stand alone fun > read, but it is. However on a more serious note. It is so expandable, and > will always be growing. Great job Stan! Wish I could grab up a bunch of > stuff including cushions but they would all have to fit in my one piece of > luggage. Maybe I need a "stateside Rhodes" to take advantage of this site! > > Chris Geankoplis > Enosis > > > On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 11:59 AM stan wrote: > >> For last minute shoppers: >> >> The Rhodes official parts site is up and running, even though it can >> never ever be finished. >> >> < www.rhodes22parts.com > >> >> Still, it might suggest some stocking filler promissory note for you to >> be announcing to your spouse (or to yourself) about the great Rhodes >> gift the recipient will be sailing with this new season. >> >> True, a lot of the pricing is not posted yet but what the hell, it's >> Christmas. Whatever the price we agree on it will be lower than any >> other Rhodes parts store. >> >> May this turn our to be the happiest of all memorable Happy Christmases >> for all Rhodies this year. >> >> stan at generalboats.com >> >> >> >> > From 4cgabriel at gmail.com Mon Dec 23 20:31:27 2019 From: 4cgabriel at gmail.com (C Gabriel) Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2019 20:31:27 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] not too late In-Reply-To: References: <511ab026-cc73-a311-a629-90f5053330c5@generalboats.com> Message-ID: More on site issues. If you just touch the links I sent, they fail with an "Internal Error." Try this: use the same links and on Android press and long hold then touch Open in Browser. I agree we shouldn't have to do this but it's a Stan-ism. Unless you all can convince Stan to let us fix it.... Cecilia On Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 8:12 PM C Gabriel <4cgabriel at gmail.com> wrote: > Todd, I agree. From newer cell phones and newer computers the sites appear > to be down but if you fully qualify the site name (www.generalboats.com > or http://www.generalboats.com) AND use a Browser and NOT an Android > Google Search bar the sites are live. > > Many have tried to offer real working design changes. Without feedback, > Stan writes his websites as they are..... > Cecilia > > > On Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 6:26 PM Todd Tavares wrote: > >> But the main site is still down? >> >> Todd Tavares >> >> tavares0947 at gmail.com >> >> On Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 11:59 AM stan wrote: >> >> > >> > For last minute shoppers: >> > >> > The Rhodes official parts site is up and running, even though it can >> > never ever be finished. >> > >> > < www.rhodes22parts.com > >> > >> > Still, it might suggest some stocking filler promissory note for you to >> > be announcing to your spouse (or to yourself) about the great Rhodes >> > gift the recipient will be sailing with this new season. >> > >> > True, a lot of the pricing is not posted yet but what the hell, it's >> > Christmas. Whatever the price we agree on it will be lower than any >> > other Rhodes parts store. >> > >> > May this turn our to be the happiest of all memorable Happy Christmases >> > for all Rhodies this year. >> > >> > stan at generalboats.com >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > From alexis.seigneurin at gmail.com Mon Dec 23 23:44:22 2019 From: alexis.seigneurin at gmail.com (Alexis Seigneurin) Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2019 04:44:22 +0000 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] not too late In-Reply-To: References: <511ab026-cc73-a311-a629-90f5053330c5@generalboats.com> , Message-ID: I think it?s great to make the prices publicly available. Great for transparency, and great to just check how much it would cost to improve our boats. Well done, Stan. Alexis ________________________________ From: Rhodes22-list on behalf of C Gabriel <4cgabriel at gmail.com> Sent: Monday, December 23, 2019 8:31 PM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] not too late More on site issues. If you just touch the links I sent, they fail with an "Internal Error." Try this: use the same links and on Android press and long hold then touch Open in Browser. I agree we shouldn't have to do this but it's a Stan-ism. Unless you all can convince Stan to let us fix it.... Cecilia On Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 8:12 PM C Gabriel <4cgabriel at gmail.com> wrote: > Todd, I agree. From newer cell phones and newer computers the sites appear > to be down but if you fully qualify the site name (www.generalboats.com > or http://www.generalboats.com) AND use a Browser and NOT an Android > Google Search bar the sites are live. > > Many have tried to offer real working design changes. Without feedback, > Stan writes his websites as they are..... > Cecilia > > > On Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 6:26 PM Todd Tavares wrote: > >> But the main site is still down? >> >> Todd Tavares >> >> tavares0947 at gmail.com >> >> On Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 11:59 AM stan wrote: >> >> > >> > For last minute shoppers: >> > >> > The Rhodes official parts site is up and running, even though it can >> > never ever be finished. >> > >> > < www.rhodes22parts.com > >> > >> > Still, it might suggest some stocking filler promissory note for you to >> > be announcing to your spouse (or to yourself) about the great Rhodes >> > gift the recipient will be sailing with this new season. >> > >> > True, a lot of the pricing is not posted yet but what the hell, it's >> > Christmas. Whatever the price we agree on it will be lower than any >> > other Rhodes parts store. >> > >> > May this turn our to be the happiest of all memorable Happy Christmases >> > for all Rhodies this year. >> > >> > stan at generalboats.com >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > From chrisgeankoplis at gmail.com Tue Dec 24 16:05:41 2019 From: chrisgeankoplis at gmail.com (Chris Geankoplis) Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2019 16:05:41 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] not too late In-Reply-To: References: <511ab026-cc73-a311-a629-90f5053330c5@generalboats.com> Message-ID: Love you Stan. Can?t wait to see the new sites. Chris G. On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 at 20:30, stan wrote: > > Thanks Chris. Whenever I need someone to make my day I know where to > find you somewhere in this world, that is at least my emails do. > > I think I forget to tell you, you have the entire Med surrounds. Have > had several emails from an English speaking Israeli couple (don't know > how they know of the Rhodes) who want to buy one but want to sail one > first. I told them you would drop in when you were doing your next Med > rounds. It will get you your standby State's Rhodes to do the > Atlantic, Mississippi loop next time you are in the neighborhood. > > Love to join you on that one but too busy; have two new sites waiting in > the wings to get into publishing condition, that will really change the > marketing of direct buying and selling of used Rhodes. > > Stanish (I'll drink to that, anyone have any organic tomato juice handy) > > > On 12/23/19 7:40 PM, Chris Geankoplis wrote: > > What a Cool site! It is so.....what's the word I am looking > > for?........Stanish! It may not have been conceived as a stand alone fun > > read, but it is. However on a more serious note. It is so expandable, > and > > will always be growing. Great job Stan! Wish I could grab up a bunch of > > stuff including cushions but they would all have to fit in my one piece > of > > luggage. Maybe I need a "stateside Rhodes" to take advantage of this > site! > > > > Chris Geankoplis > > Enosis > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 11:59 AM stan wrote: > > > >> For last minute shoppers: > >> > >> The Rhodes official parts site is up and running, even though it can > >> never ever be finished. > >> > >> < www.rhodes22parts.com > > >> > >> Still, it might suggest some stocking filler promissory note for you to > >> be announcing to your spouse (or to yourself) about the great Rhodes > >> gift the recipient will be sailing with this new season. > >> > >> True, a lot of the pricing is not posted yet but what the hell, it's > >> Christmas. Whatever the price we agree on it will be lower than any > >> other Rhodes parts store. > >> > >> May this turn our to be the happiest of all memorable Happy Christmases > >> for all Rhodies this year. > >> > >> stan at generalboats.com > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > From mtroy at atlanticbb.net Thu Dec 26 20:12:21 2019 From: mtroy at atlanticbb.net (Mary Lou Troy) Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2019 20:12:21 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Thanks Chris G. Re: R22 capsize in Force 10 In-Reply-To: References: <1576606173616-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <0c0af8ba-e8ae-7e24-2116-ef6519c6ebf3@atlanticbb.net> Message-ID: <80230332-cfc7-8add-924e-b69984ffe76b@atlanticbb.net> Thanks Chris. I remember a similar story from somewhere in the Carolinas with a microburst. I've got it detailed somewhere in the files and I'll add your story to the mix. Mary Lou On 12/21/2019 10:24 AM, Chris Geankoplis wrote: > If the Rhodes has as ?design? flaw then lots of Rhodes would have had these > problems over the last 60 years. Anybody? Anybody? I?ve owned a Rhodes > since 1976. Mine did actually capsize. Of course it took a tornado to knock > it over while anchored in the ?pot? on Poplar Island. According to my buddy > who was aboard and another eyewitness off the boat: The mast hit the mud > (12 ft deep) and the boat ?pole vaulted? up then slowly drove the mast into > the mud. Did the boat right itself? Nope, So technically a capsize. It > popped right back up when we detached the stays and tabernacle pin. The > entire weight of the boat was focused on the mast step. No structural > damage. Design flaw? Can?t think of any other boat that would have > survived as well as the Rhodes. Do I trust the Rhodes? With my life. 43 > years and more than 10,000 miles of ocean, river. bay, and lake sailing I > still am sailing the Rhodes. > Chris Geankoplis > ENOSIS > > On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 at 07:45, Mary Lou Troy wrote: > >> Thanks Richard. I had forgotten that one. I'll add it to the list I will >> cite in my letter to SCA. >> >> I'm probably not going to get to it until after the New Year so if >> anyone else would like to remind me of examples of how the R22 can >> handle squalls and storms. I've got the ones from the owners group FAQ. >> >> My point will be that any boat can be overcome by the right set of >> conditions but to attribute the loss of this R22 to supposed design >> flaws is a real stretch. >> >> Thanks, >> Mary Lou >> >> On 12/20/2019 8:02 PM, Richard Beytagh wrote: >>> If anyone has concerns about the Rhodes 22 being able to withstand >> extreme >>> weather conditions have a look the attached. This was a boat I delivered >> to >>> Port St Joe a couple of years ago. This area was hit by hurricane Mike >>> head-on and this was the only boat in the marina that survived intact. I >>> know it's not the same as being out at sea in a force 10, but it speaks >>> spades when all others had been washed a way or sunk: >>> >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOfAtfXoJ44&authuser=0 >>> >>> Go to around 2:30min to see the lone dark blue R22 still floating... >>> >>> >>> ~~~ _/) ~~~ >>> >>> Richard Beytagh >>> Phone: 828 337 0180 >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 5:30 PM Mary Lou Troy >> wrote: >>>> So I just read the Small Craft Advisor article (Issue #121, p20) article >>>> and I'm rather annoyed. I'll need to read the article again when I have >>>> more time but here is a quick and somewhat careful synopsis. >>>> >>>> The author writes about sailing his Sailmaster 22 (good boat, Sparkman & >>>> Stephens design) and getting caught in the same storm that capsized the >>>> R22. In many ways, it's a good article about what he did in the face of >>>> the storm and what he should have done better. He gets onto shaky ground >>>> when he starts talking about why the R22 capsized (he doesn't seem to >>>> have direct knowledge in spite of talking to the skipper of the R22 and >>>> is just speculating on how the design may have contributed to the >>>> capsize) and why his boat didn't. He makes at least one error and a >>>> couple errors of omission in talking about the design of the R22. >>>> >>>> Early on in the article the author quotes me from my chapter in "Sailing >>>> Small" quoting GB's website about the R22 being "uncapsizeable under >>>> sail." It's irrelevant as the R22 was motoring at the time as was the >>>> Sailmaster. Both evidently saw the storm while near the mouth of their >>>> home creek and both elected to make a run for the dock or at least >>>> sheltered water. The R22 was capsized. dismasted and "the salvage crew >>>> couldn't refloat the boat, so a crane was used to lift it onto a small >>>> barge." The Rhodes evidently had extensive damage to the bow and was >>>> uninsured. >>>> >>>> I'm planning on writing a letter to SCA correcting a couple of >>>> statements by the author and adding some thoughts of my own having had >>>> the R22 out in a significant squall as described in Sailing Small. If >>>> any Long Island Rhodies know more about the incident, I'd love to hear >> it. >>>> Mary Lou >>>> ex-R22 >>>> now Rosborough RF-246 >>>> Rock Hall, MD >>>> >>>> . >>>> >>>> >>>> On 12/20/2019 11:33 AM, Cary Tolbert wrote: >>>>> This popped up on my phone. The Rhodes 22 is in good company. >>>>> Donna Lang on her second solo circumnavigation trip in her Southern >> Cross >>>>> 28 , 1982 vintage, >>>>> got caught in 50 mph winds and was knocked down and dis-masted. This >> is a >>>>> Blue Water boat >>>>> with a Dis./Bal. of 40%. It can happen to anyone. You can't mess with >>>>> mother nature; well you can but your playing against the house. >>>>> >>>>> Cary >>>>> Whisper '86 >>>>> Radford,VA >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:58 PM Rick Lange >>>> wrote: >>>>>> Was the boat sailing or laying to? >>>>>> >>>>>> Rick Lange >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 12:07 PM stan wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Force 10. That is 55 mph, and up, winds with giant waves. I guess >> we >>>>>>> will have to lower any claims to 50 mph winds. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have spent most off my sailing days on the Great South Bay. It is >> so >>>>>>> shallow it is impossible to lose anything. And although on the ocean >>>>>>> side of Long Island, there never was anything close to a force 10 >> storm >>>>>>> in my day. Global warming? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We did list once in the middle of the night when low tide had the >>>> family >>>>>>> sleeping stacked up on top of each other. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 12/19/19 8:49 AM, Chris Geankoplis wrote: >>>>>>>> details? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 12:53 PM gramille wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Did any of you read the article in the latest issue of Small Craft >>>>>>> Advisor >>>>>>>>> about the loss of a R22 in Long Islands Great South Bay? Sobering >>>>>>> reading! >>>>>>>>> Have a Happy New Year full of safe sailing adventures. >>>>>>>>> Graham in snowy Vermont >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ >>>>>>>>> >> From chrisgeankoplis at gmail.com Fri Dec 27 07:54:28 2019 From: chrisgeankoplis at gmail.com (Chris Geankoplis) Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2019 07:54:28 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Thanks Chris G. Re: R22 capsize in Force 10 In-Reply-To: <80230332-cfc7-8add-924e-b69984ffe76b@atlanticbb.net> References: <1576606173616-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <0c0af8ba-e8ae-7e24-2116-ef6519c6ebf3@atlanticbb.net> <80230332-cfc7-8add-924e-b69984ffe76b@atlanticbb.net> Message-ID: I?m so glad that the group has you Mary Lou, we all benefit from your wisdom and continuing involvement. Thanks! Chris Geankoplis ENOSIS On Thu, 26 Dec 2019 at 20:12, Mary Lou Troy wrote: > Thanks Chris. I remember a similar story from somewhere in the Carolinas > with a microburst. I've got it detailed somewhere in the files and I'll > add your story to the mix. > Mary Lou > > On 12/21/2019 10:24 AM, Chris Geankoplis wrote: > > If the Rhodes has as ?design? flaw then lots of Rhodes would have had > these > > problems over the last 60 years. Anybody? Anybody? I?ve owned a Rhodes > > since 1976. Mine did actually capsize. Of course it took a tornado to > knock > > it over while anchored in the ?pot? on Poplar Island. According to my > buddy > > who was aboard and another eyewitness off the boat: The mast hit the mud > > (12 ft deep) and the boat ?pole vaulted? up then slowly drove the mast > into > > the mud. Did the boat right itself? Nope, So technically a capsize. It > > popped right back up when we detached the stays and tabernacle pin. The > > entire weight of the boat was focused on the mast step. No structural > > damage. Design flaw? Can?t think of any other boat that would have > > survived as well as the Rhodes. Do I trust the Rhodes? With my life. 43 > > years and more than 10,000 miles of ocean, river. bay, and lake sailing I > > still am sailing the Rhodes. > > Chris Geankoplis > > ENOSIS > > > > On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 at 07:45, Mary Lou Troy > wrote: > > > >> Thanks Richard. I had forgotten that one. I'll add it to the list I will > >> cite in my letter to SCA. > >> > >> I'm probably not going to get to it until after the New Year so if > >> anyone else would like to remind me of examples of how the R22 can > >> handle squalls and storms. I've got the ones from the owners group FAQ. > >> > >> My point will be that any boat can be overcome by the right set of > >> conditions but to attribute the loss of this R22 to supposed design > >> flaws is a real stretch. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Mary Lou > >> > >> On 12/20/2019 8:02 PM, Richard Beytagh wrote: > >>> If anyone has concerns about the Rhodes 22 being able to withstand > >> extreme > >>> weather conditions have a look the attached. This was a boat I > delivered > >> to > >>> Port St Joe a couple of years ago. This area was hit by hurricane Mike > >>> head-on and this was the only boat in the marina that survived intact. > I > >>> know it's not the same as being out at sea in a force 10, but it speaks > >>> spades when all others had been washed a way or sunk: > >>> > >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOfAtfXoJ44&authuser=0 > >>> > >>> Go to around 2:30min to see the lone dark blue R22 still floating... > >>> > >>> > >>> ~~~ _/) ~~~ > >>> > >>> Richard Beytagh > >>> Phone: 828 337 0180 > >>> > >>> > >>> On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 5:30 PM Mary Lou Troy > >> wrote: > >>>> So I just read the Small Craft Advisor article (Issue #121, p20) > article > >>>> and I'm rather annoyed. I'll need to read the article again when I > have > >>>> more time but here is a quick and somewhat careful synopsis. > >>>> > >>>> The author writes about sailing his Sailmaster 22 (good boat, > Sparkman & > >>>> Stephens design) and getting caught in the same storm that capsized > the > >>>> R22. In many ways, it's a good article about what he did in the face > of > >>>> the storm and what he should have done better. He gets onto shaky > ground > >>>> when he starts talking about why the R22 capsized (he doesn't seem to > >>>> have direct knowledge in spite of talking to the skipper of the R22 > and > >>>> is just speculating on how the design may have contributed to the > >>>> capsize) and why his boat didn't. He makes at least one error and a > >>>> couple errors of omission in talking about the design of the R22. > >>>> > >>>> Early on in the article the author quotes me from my chapter in > "Sailing > >>>> Small" quoting GB's website about the R22 being "uncapsizeable under > >>>> sail." It's irrelevant as the R22 was motoring at the time as was the > >>>> Sailmaster. Both evidently saw the storm while near the mouth of their > >>>> home creek and both elected to make a run for the dock or at least > >>>> sheltered water. The R22 was capsized. dismasted and "the salvage crew > >>>> couldn't refloat the boat, so a crane was used to lift it onto a small > >>>> barge." The Rhodes evidently had extensive damage to the bow and was > >>>> uninsured. > >>>> > >>>> I'm planning on writing a letter to SCA correcting a couple of > >>>> statements by the author and adding some thoughts of my own having had > >>>> the R22 out in a significant squall as described in Sailing Small. If > >>>> any Long Island Rhodies know more about the incident, I'd love to hear > >> it. > >>>> Mary Lou > >>>> ex-R22 > >>>> now Rosborough RF-246 > >>>> Rock Hall, MD > >>>> > >>>> . > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 12/20/2019 11:33 AM, Cary Tolbert wrote: > >>>>> This popped up on my phone. The Rhodes 22 is in good company. > >>>>> Donna Lang on her second solo circumnavigation trip in her Southern > >> Cross > >>>>> 28 , 1982 vintage, > >>>>> got caught in 50 mph winds and was knocked down and dis-masted. This > >> is a > >>>>> Blue Water boat > >>>>> with a Dis./Bal. of 40%. It can happen to anyone. You can't mess with > >>>>> mother nature; well you can but your playing against the house. > >>>>> > >>>>> Cary > >>>>> Whisper '86 > >>>>> Radford,VA > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:58 PM Rick Lange > > >>>> wrote: > >>>>>> Was the boat sailing or laying to? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Rick Lange > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 12:07 PM stan wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Force 10. That is 55 mph, and up, winds with giant waves. I guess > >> we > >>>>>>> will have to lower any claims to 50 mph winds. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I have spent most off my sailing days on the Great South Bay. It > is > >> so > >>>>>>> shallow it is impossible to lose anything. And although on the > ocean > >>>>>>> side of Long Island, there never was anything close to a force 10 > >> storm > >>>>>>> in my day. Global warming? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> We did list once in the middle of the night when low tide had the > >>>> family > >>>>>>> sleeping stacked up on top of each other. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On 12/19/19 8:49 AM, Chris Geankoplis wrote: > >>>>>>>> details? > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 12:53 PM gramille > wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Did any of you read the article in the latest issue of Small > Craft > >>>>>>> Advisor > >>>>>>>>> about the loss of a R22 in Long Islands Great South Bay? Sobering > >>>>>>> reading! > >>>>>>>>> Have a Happy New Year full of safe sailing adventures. > >>>>>>>>> Graham in snowy Vermont > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>> Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > From robert at pamayared.com Mon Dec 30 07:16:44 2019 From: robert at pamayared.com (Robert@ Pamaya Red) Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2019 13:16:44 +0100 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] New to Rhodes22 Message-ID: Hi, I'm Robert and I recently purchased a 2012 Rhodes 22. It's presently on trailer and shrink wrapped on Long Beach Island, NJ. In April it will be set up and ready to sail. I plan on bringing her to Haverstraw, NY on the Hudson or Manhasset Bay on the LI Sound. Have only been sailing for a couple of years and will need someone experienced to bring her North with me so I can learn more about the Rhodes and coastal sailing. Hope to move her early May. Anyone interested in doing this with me or have any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Robert Weinberg From keywestseccorp at verizon.net Mon Dec 30 09:01:33 2019 From: keywestseccorp at verizon.net (Mark West) Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2019 14:01:33 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Rhodes22-list] New to Rhodes22 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1064877537.3131511.1577714493859@mail.yahoo.com> Congregations, It sounds as if you bought R22 with out sailing it, was in winter storage mode? I would run a complete shakes down on everything rigging , motor ,sails ,safety? equipment. Then sail her? get use to? it then make costal trip weather permitting? Mark s/v fairwinds? Hertford NC -----Original Message----- From: Robert@ Pamaya Red To: rhodes22-list Sent: Mon, Dec 30, 2019 7:16 am Subject: [Rhodes22-list] New to Rhodes22 Hi, I'm Robert and I recently purchased a 2012 Rhodes 22. It's presently on trailer and shrink wrapped on Long Beach Island, NJ. In April it will be set up and ready to sail. I plan on bringing her to Haverstraw, NY on the Hudson or Manhasset Bay on the LI Sound. Have only been sailing for a couple of years and will need someone experienced to bring her North with me so I can learn more about the Rhodes and coastal sailing. Hope to move her early May. Anyone interested in doing this with me or have any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Robert Weinberg From robert at pamayared.com Mon Dec 30 09:06:02 2019 From: robert at pamayared.com (Robert@ Pamaya Red) Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2019 15:06:02 +0100 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] New to Rhodes22 In-Reply-To: <1064877537.3131511.1577714493859@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1064877537.3131511.1577714493859@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Mark. I checked her out best I could, but didn't sail her. So will definitely check out when on the water. Robert On Mon, Dec 30, 2019, 3:01 PM Mark West via Rhodes22-list < rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote: > Congregations, It sounds as if you bought R22 with out sailing it, was in > winter storage mode? I would run a complete shakes down on everything > rigging , motor ,sails ,safety equipment. Then sail her get use to it > then make costal trip weather permitting > > Mark s/v fairwinds Hertford NC > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert@ Pamaya Red > To: rhodes22-list > Sent: Mon, Dec 30, 2019 7:16 am > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] New to Rhodes22 > > Hi, I'm Robert and I recently purchased a 2012 Rhodes 22. > It's presently on trailer and shrink wrapped on Long Beach Island, NJ. In > April it will be set up and ready to sail. I plan on bringing her to > Haverstraw, NY on the Hudson or Manhasset Bay on the LI Sound. Have only > been sailing for a couple of years and will need someone experienced to > bring her North with me so I can learn more about the Rhodes and coastal > sailing. > Hope to move her early May. > Anyone interested in doing this with me or have any suggestions would be > greatly appreciated. > Thanks > Robert Weinberg > From lsr3 at nyu.edu Mon Dec 30 14:24:13 2019 From: lsr3 at nyu.edu (Lou Rosenberg) Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2019 12:24:13 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Rhodes22-list] R22 capsize in Force 10 In-Reply-To: <769810679.280849.1576607883282@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1576606173616-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <769810679.280849.1576607883282@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1577733853458-0.post@n5.nabble.com> 1981 Rhodes with Standard rigging hits 26mph wind from nowhere On Sept 1, 2012 outside of Sheepshead Bay Brooklyn I was quietly motoring with only my main up. I was out alone, the day was extremely hot with average temps in the mid 90sF, almost NO wind all day. I had met up with a NEW Rhodes22 owner, I believe out of Sheepshead Bay with a full crew about 45 minutes before I got near the buoys for the Sheepshead channel when out of nowhere and from the EAST, I noticed the water getting churned up quickly. In no more than 3 seconds the wind hit my boat amidships. My motor was still running and I was pointed southeast as I struggled to head up and drop my main. I had NOT installed a jiffy reef and was relying on the ability to roll up my main if needed to reef. That option was not even conceivable to me as I needed to be on the windward side of the helm. My motor was cavitating as the waves picked up, and was barely able to assist me getting into this heavy wind. I was also too close to an anchored construction barge which was being used for the maintenance of the Knapp St sewer outlet at the time. My memory was seared with the image of my rail deep in the water, the boom just about to get wet also. I had just let the traveler out all the way as it took seconds using John Locke?s design upgrade which was posted on ?da list? back then. But I was still way to abeam of this heavy air. My heart was pounding in my chest and I knew I just had to stay with the boat and sure enough I got my break and eased the tiller windward, stood up and used my quick release Lewmar rope clutch to let down the main. I still had to stand and was glad I had put my PFD back on before all this happened. Remember it was 90F+ and no wind just seconds ago! My point: The R22 with just the standard rig, a fairly new mainsail, and the standard CB did not come near capsizing or taking on water. It was confirmed to me later that week that the winds went up to 26mph that afternoon. Moral: The next weekend I bought myself all the essential blocks and 1/4? line to rig a Jiffy Reefing system which helped me out many times later especially singlehanding in Rockaway Inlet and the Lower Bay of NY Harbor. Since most of Rhodies have IMF the ease of taking in sail should never be an issue and I believe the R22 could withstand 45 mph broadside and still survive. It may take some water, but she would not sink. Lou Rosenberg Former owner of Miracles out of Mill Basin Brooklyn -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ From sloopblueheron at gmail.com Mon Dec 30 14:36:49 2019 From: sloopblueheron at gmail.com (Rick Lange) Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2019 14:36:49 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] R22 capsize in Force 10 In-Reply-To: <1577733853458-0.post@n5.nabble.com> References: <1576606173616-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <769810679.280849.1576607883282@mail.yahoo.com> <1577733853458-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Message-ID: Lou, A reassuring tale. Lesson learned: when under power on port tack and you see a squall approaching rapidly, tack to starboard to minimize the motor cavitating. Regards, Rick Lange On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 2:05 PM Lou Rosenberg wrote: > 1981 Rhodes with Standard rigging hits 26mph wind from nowhere > > On Sept 1, 2012 outside of Sheepshead Bay Brooklyn I was quietly motoring > with only my main up. > I was out alone, the day was extremely hot with average temps in the mid > 90sF, almost NO wind all day. I had met up with a NEW Rhodes22 owner, I > believe out of Sheepshead Bay with a full crew about 45 minutes before I > got > near the buoys for the Sheepshead channel when out of nowhere and from the > EAST, I noticed the water getting churned up quickly. In no more than 3 > seconds the wind hit my boat amidships. My motor was still running and I > was pointed southeast as I struggled to head up and drop my main. I had > NOT > installed a jiffy reef and was relying on the ability to roll up my main if > needed to reef. That option was not even conceivable to me as I needed to > be on the windward side of the helm. My motor was cavitating as the waves > picked up, and was barely able to assist me getting into this heavy wind. > I > was also too close to an anchored construction barge which was being used > for the maintenance of the Knapp St sewer outlet at the time. > My memory was seared with the image of my rail deep in the water, the boom > just about to get wet also. I had just let the traveler out all the way as > it took seconds using John Locke?s design upgrade which was posted on ?da > list? back then. But I was still way to abeam of this heavy air. My heart > was pounding in my chest and I knew I just had to stay with the boat and > sure enough I got my break and eased the tiller windward, stood up and used > my quick release Lewmar rope clutch to let down the main. I still had to > stand and was glad I had put my PFD back on before all this happened. > Remember it was 90F+ and no wind just seconds ago! > My point: The R22 with just the standard rig, a fairly new mainsail, and > the > standard CB did not come near capsizing or taking on water. It was > confirmed > to me later that week that the winds went up to 26mph that afternoon. > Moral: The next weekend I bought myself all the essential blocks and 1/4? > line to rig a Jiffy Reefing system which helped me out many times later > especially singlehanding in Rockaway Inlet and the Lower Bay of NY Harbor. > Since most of Rhodies have IMF the ease of taking in sail should never be > an > issue and I believe the R22 could withstand 45 mph broadside and still > survive. It may take some water, but she would not sink. > > Lou Rosenberg > Former owner of > Miracles > out of Mill Basin Brooklyn > > > > -- > Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ > From michael.4591 at gmail.com Mon Dec 30 15:28:59 2019 From: michael.4591 at gmail.com (Michael Corley) Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2019 15:28:59 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] New to Rhodes22 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Welcome to the Rhodes family Robert! Excellent choice of boats, and it sounds like you got a plan; you are off to a great start. Haverstraw and Manhasset are both beautiful spots, but I prefer costal sailing. Don't know what your situation is, but my advice is keep the boat close to where you live. The closer it is the more likely and frequently you are to use it. Mike Corley S/V Ranger Hampton Roads, VA On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 7:16 AM Robert@ Pamaya Red wrote: > Hi, I'm Robert and I recently purchased a 2012 Rhodes 22. > It's presently on trailer and shrink wrapped on Long Beach Island, NJ. In > April it will be set up and ready to sail. I plan on bringing her to > Haverstraw, NY on the Hudson or Manhasset Bay on the LI Sound. Have only > been sailing for a couple of years and will need someone experienced to > bring her North with me so I can learn more about the Rhodes and coastal > sailing. > Hope to move her early May. > Anyone interested in doing this with me or have any suggestions would be > greatly appreciated. > Thanks > Robert Weinberg > From mtroy at atlanticbb.net Mon Dec 30 16:57:36 2019 From: mtroy at atlanticbb.net (Mary Lou Troy) Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2019 16:57:36 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] R22 capsize in Force 10 In-Reply-To: <1577733853458-0.post@n5.nabble.com> References: <1576606173616-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <769810679.280849.1576607883282@mail.yahoo.com> <1577733853458-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Message-ID: Thanks Lou. Appreciate the narrative and the time it took to write it. Mary Lou On 12/30/2019 2:24 PM, Lou Rosenberg wrote: > 1981 Rhodes with Standard rigging hits 26mph wind from nowhere > > On Sept 1, 2012 outside of Sheepshead Bay Brooklyn I was quietly motoring > with only my main up. > I was out alone, the day was extremely hot with average temps in the mid > 90sF, almost NO wind all day. I had met up with a NEW Rhodes22 owner, I > believe out of Sheepshead Bay with a full crew about 45 minutes before I got > near the buoys for the Sheepshead channel when out of nowhere and from the > EAST, I noticed the water getting churned up quickly. In no more than 3 > seconds the wind hit my boat amidships. My motor was still running and I > was pointed southeast as I struggled to head up and drop my main. I had NOT > installed a jiffy reef and was relying on the ability to roll up my main if > needed to reef. That option was not even conceivable to me as I needed to > be on the windward side of the helm. My motor was cavitating as the waves > picked up, and was barely able to assist me getting into this heavy wind. I > was also too close to an anchored construction barge which was being used > for the maintenance of the Knapp St sewer outlet at the time. > My memory was seared with the image of my rail deep in the water, the boom > just about to get wet also. I had just let the traveler out all the way as > it took seconds using John Locke?s design upgrade which was posted on ?da > list? back then. But I was still way to abeam of this heavy air. My heart > was pounding in my chest and I knew I just had to stay with the boat and > sure enough I got my break and eased the tiller windward, stood up and used > my quick release Lewmar rope clutch to let down the main. I still had to > stand and was glad I had put my PFD back on before all this happened. > Remember it was 90F+ and no wind just seconds ago! > My point: The R22 with just the standard rig, a fairly new mainsail, and the > standard CB did not come near capsizing or taking on water. It was confirmed > to me later that week that the winds went up to 26mph that afternoon. > Moral: The next weekend I bought myself all the essential blocks and 1/4? > line to rig a Jiffy Reefing system which helped me out many times later > especially singlehanding in Rockaway Inlet and the Lower Bay of NY Harbor. > Since most of Rhodies have IMF the ease of taking in sail should never be an > issue and I believe the R22 could withstand 45 mph broadside and still > survive. It may take some water, but she would not sink. > > Lou Rosenberg > Former owner of > Miracles > out of Mill Basin Brooklyn > > > > -- > Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ From blue66corvette at hotmail.com Mon Dec 30 17:36:53 2019 From: blue66corvette at hotmail.com (Charles Nieman) Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2019 22:36:53 +0000 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Electric Motor Message-ID: There has been discussion regarding the use of the new electric motors and I know Stan outfitted one boat with a slick mounting inside the laz. I?m thinking it may be time to join the revolution. Trying to figure out how much motor I need for lake sailing. I?ve been using a Honda 5hp quiet successfully Any advise from the fleet? Sent from my iPhone Charles Nieman SV Daydreams 98 R22 Arlington, TX From shawn.sustain at gmail.com Mon Dec 30 18:31:41 2019 From: shawn.sustain at gmail.com (Shawn Boles) Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2019 15:31:41 -0800 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Electric Motor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi: I have used a torqeedo electric for the last 10 years on Fern Ridge Lake in Oregon. I have a long shaft 3 horsepower equivalent and find it it's sufficient for getting in and out of the slip. Not too good against serious winds and waves but can push the boat at low speeds up to 15 km. Easy to recharge and Bulletproof. Cheers, Shawn s/v Sweet Baboo On Mon, Dec 30, 2019, 2:36 PM Charles Nieman wrote: > There has been discussion regarding the use of the new electric motors and > I know Stan outfitted one boat with a slick mounting inside the laz. I?m > thinking it may be time to join the revolution. Trying to figure out how > much motor I need for lake sailing. I?ve been using a Honda 5hp quiet > successfully > > Any advise from the fleet? > > Sent from my iPhone > > Charles Nieman > SV Daydreams 98 R22 > Arlington, TX > > From jose.faraldo at gmail.com Mon Dec 30 19:23:19 2019 From: jose.faraldo at gmail.com (Jose Faraldo-Gomez) Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2019 19:23:19 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Electric Motor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B5421EF-2575-4F7E-8694-9D8B1EAA3AC8@gmail.com> Hello Charles We?ve had a Torqueedo Cruise 4.0R for a few years and in terms of power I can?t tell it apart from the (admittedly rather old) Yamaha T9.9 we had before. This particular Torqueedo motor is advertised as equivalent to 8 HP, so this seems accurate. If you get by with a Honda 5 HP, one of the Cruise 2.0 models (either with remote throttle or with tiller) would likely be the equivalent. Jose s/v Steady State Rose Haven, MD > On Dec 30, 2019, at 6:31 PM, Shawn Boles wrote: > > ?Hi: > > I have used a torqeedo electric for the last 10 years on Fern Ridge Lake in > Oregon. I have a long shaft 3 horsepower equivalent and find it it's > sufficient for getting in and out of the slip. Not too good against serious > winds and waves but can push the boat at low speeds up to 15 km. Easy to > recharge and Bulletproof. > > Cheers, > > Shawn > > s/v Sweet Baboo > >> On Mon, Dec 30, 2019, 2:36 PM Charles Nieman >> wrote: >> >> There has been discussion regarding the use of the new electric motors and >> I know Stan outfitted one boat with a slick mounting inside the laz. I?m >> thinking it may be time to join the revolution. Trying to figure out how >> much motor I need for lake sailing. I?ve been using a Honda 5hp quiet >> successfully >> >> Any advise from the fleet? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> Charles Nieman >> SV Daydreams 98 R22 >> Arlington, TX >> >> From roger_pihlaja at msn.com Tue Dec 31 07:41:47 2019 From: roger_pihlaja at msn.com (ROGER PIHLAJA) Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2019 12:41:47 +0000 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] New to Rhodes22 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Robert, I?m a semi retired chemical engineer. I?ve been sailing all my adult life and have owned S/V Dynamic Equilibrium, our 1976 Rhodes 22 since 1987. I live in Sanford, MI. I may be able to help you move your boat next spring. Please contact me off the list so we can discuss the particulars of this trip. Roger Pihlaja S/V Dynamic Equilibrium (989) 859-5478 Roger_Pihlaja at msn.com Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Robert@ Pamaya Red Sent: Monday, December 30, 2019 7:16 AM To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org Subject: [Rhodes22-list] New to Rhodes22 Hi, I'm Robert and I recently purchased a 2012 Rhodes 22. It's presently on trailer and shrink wrapped on Long Beach Island, NJ. In April it will be set up and ready to sail. I plan on bringing her to Haverstraw, NY on the Hudson or Manhasset Bay on the LI Sound. Have only been sailing for a couple of years and will need someone experienced to bring her North with me so I can learn more about the Rhodes and coastal sailing. Hope to move her early May. Anyone interested in doing this with me or have any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Robert Weinberg From lsr3 at nyu.edu Tue Dec 31 13:17:48 2019 From: lsr3 at nyu.edu (Lou Rosenberg) Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2019 11:17:48 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Rhodes22-list] R22 capsize in Force 10 In-Reply-To: References: <1576606173616-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <769810679.280849.1576607883282@mail.yahoo.com> <1577733853458-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1577816268497-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Rick, The strange thing about this anomoly if I can call it that was there was NO squall! This was simply a freak strong wind not just a gust. It kept blowing hard even after I was into the wind with the sail down and motoring east into it. We didn't even get many clouds. Considering that we usually got the On Shore Winds around this time from the SE or SW, this could've been the same winds from a very unusual direction. I miss my boat but just had my right knee replaced last Oct24. Still in recovery mode may have to forgo sailing one more year.bummer! fair winds Lou -- Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ From chrisgeankoplis at gmail.com Tue Dec 31 14:51:58 2019 From: chrisgeankoplis at gmail.com (Chris Geankoplis) Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2019 14:51:58 -0500 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] R22 capsize in Force 10 In-Reply-To: <1577816268497-0.post@n5.nabble.com> References: <1576606173616-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <769810679.280849.1576607883282@mail.yahoo.com> <1577733853458-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <1577816268497-0.post@n5.nabble.com> Message-ID: Hey Lou, Thanks for the insight and take care of the knee. Maybe get someone to be a first mat Ed and you can sit back and command. Chris Geankoplis ENOSIS On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 at 12:59, Lou Rosenberg wrote: > Rick, > > The strange thing about this anomoly if I can call it that was there was > NO > squall! This was simply a > freak strong wind not just a gust. It kept blowing hard even after I was > into the wind with the sail down and motoring east into it. We didn't even > get many clouds. Considering that we usually got the On Shore Winds around > this time from the SE or SW, this could've been the same winds from a very > unusual direction. > > I miss my boat but > just had my right knee replaced last Oct24. Still in recovery mode > may have to forgo sailing one more year.bummer! > > fair winds > Lou > > > > -- > Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/ >