[Rhodes22-list] Unbolted track

Mon Jul 26 11:28:16 EDT 2021

Just curious for those that have added backing plates in certain scenarios,
what material have you used for this?

I've used steel sheet metal from Home Depot that I cut to size with an
angle grinder and painted with Rustoleum primer and paint before
installation.  I didn't find stainless steel sheet metal at the hardware
store or home improvement stores.  I don't recall the gauge/thickness that
I used.  I also used fender washers on top of the backing plates.  I've
added backing plates for the bow cleat, two chocks that I installed towards
the bow, a flip up midship cleat that I installed, as well as the through
bolts for the anchor roller mount... so far so good.

Jesse Shumaker
S/V Zephyr

On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 9:48 AM Michael D. Weisner <mweisner at ebsmed.com>
wrote:

> I agree with Stan.
>
> The track was designed to support the stresses of the jib car. The forces
> experienced in such use are directed more fore and aft, for which the track
> is secured properly. A track mounted cleat, whether for spring line or
> docking, exerts significant forces upward and side to side, for which the
> track is not well suited. Such applications will likely result in damage to
> the track, as you have found. Lastly, the track may fail if significant
> force is applied, simply due to its age, which is not a necessarily a
> design flaw.
>
> By the way, I use the foredeck mounted docking cleat as part of my mast
> crane system. I have through bolted and spread the transmitted forces using
> a backing plate to accommodate the nearly 500 lbs of vertical force that is
> applied by the winch at the start and end of the mast erection process.
> This is quite different than the original purpose of the deck mounted
> docking cleat which was designed to sustain mostly lateral (horizontal)
> forces when docked or moored.
>
> Please do not assume that any fixture will withstand forces outside of its
> design parameters and remember to account for changes due to age of the
> device and boat.
>
> Mike
> s/v Wind Lass ('91)
> Nissequogue River, NY
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of
> THOMAS POLISE via Rhodes22-list
> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 10:28 AM
> To: Lewin <lewin at mail.com>
> Cc: stan <stan at generalboats.com>; The Rhodes 22 Email List <
> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Unbolted track
>
> It was being used as a spring line when it broke track
>
> > On Jul 26, 2021, at 9:50 AM, Lewin <lewin at mail.com> wrote:
> >
> > If a track mounted cleat were only used for bow and stern spring lines
> would it be less likely to fail?
> >
> > ------------------
> > Bernard
> >
> >
> > On Jul 25, 2021, at 9:27 PM, THOMAS POLISE via Rhodes22-list <
> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
> >
> > I only posted because there were previous posts about mounting cleats
> on the track. I have no complaints about the boat and enjoy everything
> about it.  I know now, the hard way, not to mount cleats on the tracks and
> wanted to make others aware. I will repair and continue on enjoying
> everything about the boat. No disrespect was intended, Stan, and I will
> continue to appreciate everything you did to create this incredible boat.
> >
> >> On Jul 25, 2021, at 6:47 PM, stan <stan at generalboats.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> 
> >> My O my, I am flattered when those Rhodies who praise the Rhodes
> engineering get pleasure out of finding what they think is a flaw.
> >>
> >> In the Rhodes 50 plus years, I have not heard of a single genoa track
> pull off - when used for what it was designed to do; carry the load of the
> giant 175 genoa sheets. That load is carried by a great number of machine
> screws; more than sufficient to carry the shear loading placed on them.  Of
> course Todd did not mean they should be bolted on to the gel coat.  But I
> think his comment that "I've found more than a few questionable things
> which needed to be properly "re"engineered." is gratuitously disingenuous.
> Personally my over the hill engineering mind would think it silly to mount
> docking cleats to genoa tracks. Even if those tracks had long enough
> machine screw passing all the way through the outerside of the hull and had
> fender washers and lock nuts on them, those shiftable docking cleats would
> distort the thin edges of the genoa tracks making the genoa cars a chore or
> even impossible to adjust.
> >> If you want to put on docking cleats, mount them to the boat proper.
> You want a spring line cleat, don't use it for a docking cleat.  You want a
> boat engineered for docking? Have I got a boat to sell you. No hands, no
> straps, just three little docking eyes. See attachment. Guaranteed to hold
> for any winds. Just stop putting moving docking cleats where they are not
> invited to go.
> >>
> >> stan
> >>
> >>
> >>>> On 7/25/21 12:00 PM, THOMAS POLISE via Rhodes22-list wrote:
> >>> I found that there are no nuts or nut plates, just curious if anyone
> else had a similar situation.
> >>>
> >>>>> On Jul 25, 2021, at 11:47 AM, Todd Tavares <tavares0947 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Those are machine screws. There should be nuts underneath or nut
> >>>>> plates embedded in the rail under the gelcoat.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But it wouldn't surprise me if the machine screws were just
> >>>>> threaded into wood or even threaded into epoxy. I've found more
> >>>>> than a few questionable things which needed to be properly
> "re"engineered.
> >>>>> Let us know what you find once you dig into this problem.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Todd T.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 11:10 AM Rick Lange <sloopblueheron at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi Thomas,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Would you prefer gelcoat damage?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Never mount a dockline holding cleat without a backing plate.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Rick Lange
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 11:02 AM THOMAS POLISE via Rhodes22-list
> >>>>>> < rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Anyone else notice that the jib track is just put in without
> >>>>>> bolts.  I added cleat to track which was yanked out in high winds.
> >>>>>>
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> >
>
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