From lvjkuhn at gmail.com  Thu Dec  1 11:20:16 2022
From: lvjkuhn at gmail.com (Lee Kuhn)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2022 11:20:16 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Removing Gas from Fuel Line
In-Reply-To: <55562.24.140.30.102.1669863415.squirrel@quickpop.sssnet.com>
References: <CAPgvAEmLX7eK5u+y+CKO1chXfn-2HMT1WPSNuo40riptahb_fQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CY8PR10MB668383056F98D5A9E6BA561880159@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
 <55562.24.140.30.102.1669863415.squirrel@quickpop.sssnet.com>
Message-ID: <CAPgvAEmEw1T0F=j6vm7_B41=v2qw5quKvjERcOc08r2D+zUFrA@mail.gmail.com>

I like Roger's idea to release the ball-spring with something that won't
cause damage.  If I place the tank on the cockpit seat I and pull the hose
down tight I should be able to get most of the gas out, and on me.

I like Peter's idea to do nothing.  I'm really good at that.  I'll probably
use this method along with Jerry's idea to drink a beer.

Thanks guys!

Lee

On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 10:02 PM <cjlowe at sssnet.com> wrote:

> >Lee,
>
>   I bought a replacement for my motor connection, and keep on board in
> spare parts. End of season, I put the gas tank in the bed of the truck ,
> put the spare connector on the end of the hose and stick it in a five
> gallon gas can, pump the bulb a couple times and drink a beer.
>
>
> Jerry Lowe SV Country Rhodes '86
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Lee,
> >
> > As long as you push on the ball check valve with something soft, like a
> > piece of plastic, you are unlikely to damage it.  I always drain the gas
> > line at the end of the season.
> >
> > Roger Pihlaja
> > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Nov 30, 2022, at 5:11 PM, Lee Kuhn <lvjkuhn at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> ?What's the easiest way to remove gas from the fuel hose?  The hose
> >> has a
> >> ball spring valve at both ends.  I was told not to push the valve open
> >> with
> >> some type of tool because I could damage the valve.
> >>
> >> I disconnected the tank and put it in the lazarette and then reran the
> >> hose
> >> into the lazarette and reconnected the hose to the tank which opened
> >> the
> >> valve on that end.  I then disconnected the hose from the outboard and
> >> held it up as high as I could (gravity) and squeezed the primer.  The
> >> primer pumps gas in the opposite direction than I wanted but if you
> >> squeeze
> >> it hard and slow the gas will eventually drain into the tank.
> >>
> >> Seems like there must be a better way.  The gas was ethanol-free with a
> >> stabilizer.  Should I just leave it in the hose and hope I won't have
> >> any
> >> problems starting the outboard in the Spring?
> >>
> >> Lee
> >> 1999 Rhodes22  AT EASE
> >> Claytor Lake, VA
> >
>
>
>

From cknell at vt.edu  Sun Dec  4 09:34:31 2022
From: cknell at vt.edu (Chris on LBI)
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2022 09:34:31 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
In-Reply-To: <f0d18634-48d9-7382-498d-3774198dc6de@vt.edu>
References: <63821e4f.020a0220.9bd25.39b5@mx.google.com>
 <c5674348-daad-0878-9b7e-814b9df175c8@vt.edu>
 <000201d9041e$513b6fc0$f3b24f40$@gmail.com>
 <CY8PR10MB6683D4528620D2943A4CEFFF80129@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
 <f0d18634-48d9-7382-498d-3774198dc6de@vt.edu>
Message-ID: <9d4c38a9-5e00-a0a0-7528-73c2e3aa8422@vt.edu>

I was able to take a look at the rudder yesterday. In hindsight, I can't 
believe that it took me 5 full seasons of sailing to recognize that this 
was a potential problem. Attached are three photos. The first gives a 
sense of how far the rudder swings under the hull when the down-haul is 
used to pull the rudder against the "stop".? In the second photo I have 
placed a white piece of plastic vertically to make more obvious how much 
past vertical the rudder is when it is against the stop. The forward 
edge of the white plastic is parallel with the forward edge of the 
rudder head. The third photo shows the "stop" which is the forward side 
of the rudder head (as Roger stated).

As Roger predicted in his previous email, it appears that the mechanical 
variations of this particular rudder and rudder head allow the rudder to 
rotate too far forward. As he suggested, I will experiment with a shim 
to correct this. If this does not work out easily, I will place a mark 
on the up-haul so that I know how far to deploy it to keep the rudder 
from over-rotating, and then tension the down-haul against it.

Chris
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From mtroy at atlanticbb.net  Sun Dec  4 10:14:48 2022
From: mtroy at atlanticbb.net (Mary Lou Troy)
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2022 10:14:48 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
In-Reply-To: <9d4c38a9-5e00-a0a0-7528-73c2e3aa8422@vt.edu>
References: <63821e4f.020a0220.9bd25.39b5@mx.google.com>
 <c5674348-daad-0878-9b7e-814b9df175c8@vt.edu>
 <000201d9041e$513b6fc0$f3b24f40$@gmail.com>
 <CY8PR10MB6683D4528620D2943A4CEFFF80129@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
 <f0d18634-48d9-7382-498d-3774198dc6de@vt.edu>
 <9d4c38a9-5e00-a0a0-7528-73c2e3aa8422@vt.edu>
Message-ID: <01193a8d-1d85-3485-05a1-959ac2b949a7@atlanticbb.net>

I have not been following this discussion closely and I am relying on 
memory here so take these statements with a grain of salt.

When we purchased Fretless (recycled) in 1998 we had a number of 
discussions with Stan about rigging, helm and the rudder. He was quite 
clear that the proper position for the rudder underway was pulled 
forward of vertical so it was somewhat under the hull. Fred and I both 
remember the boat as being somewhat sluggish and less responsive if the 
rudder was not pulled far enough forward. Helm was also affected by the 
position of the rudder.

I'll keep an eye out the results of your testing as I suppose it is 
indeed possible to have it too far forward if the fittings have changed 
but Stan set up our boat and we always pulled it as far forward as it 
would go.

When doing your tests, make sure all the other variables are the same - 
for example the boat is very affected, usually positively, by weight in 
the bow. As our water tank was nearly centerline, we usually had it 
filled more than half way.

All our best,
Mary Lou (and Fred)
ex Rhodes 22
now Rosborough RF-246? Tara
Rock Hall, MD

On 12/4/2022 9:34 AM, Chris on LBI wrote:
> I was able to take a look at the rudder yesterday. In hindsight, I 
> can't believe that it took me 5 full seasons of sailing to recognize 
> that this was a potential problem. Attached are three photos. The 
> first gives a sense of how far the rudder swings under the hull when 
> the down-haul is used to pull the rudder against the "stop". In the 
> second photo I have placed a white piece of plastic vertically to make 
> more obvious how much past vertical the rudder is when it is against 
> the stop. The forward edge of the white plastic is parallel with the 
> forward edge of the rudder head. The third photo shows the "stop" 
> which is the forward side of the rudder head (as Roger stated).
>
> As Roger predicted in his previous email, it appears that the 
> mechanical variations of this particular rudder and rudder head allow 
> the rudder to rotate too far forward. As he suggested, I will 
> experiment with a shim to correct this. If this does not work out 
> easily, I will place a mark on the up-haul so that I know how far to 
> deploy it to keep the rudder from over-rotating, and then tension the 
> down-haul against it.
>
> Chris
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From tavares0947 at gmail.com  Sun Dec  4 10:38:22 2022
From: tavares0947 at gmail.com (Todd Tavares)
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2022 10:38:22 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
In-Reply-To: <9d4c38a9-5e00-a0a0-7528-73c2e3aa8422@vt.edu>
References: <63821e4f.020a0220.9bd25.39b5@mx.google.com>
 <c5674348-daad-0878-9b7e-814b9df175c8@vt.edu>
 <000201d9041e$513b6fc0$f3b24f40$@gmail.com>
 <CY8PR10MB6683D4528620D2943A4CEFFF80129@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
 <f0d18634-48d9-7382-498d-3774198dc6de@vt.edu>
 <9d4c38a9-5e00-a0a0-7528-73c2e3aa8422@vt.edu>
Message-ID: <CAB-twMN_dJb0-eHOQC9j3P_2TPx5a=EjrHrOfCMLguGGZLiq=A@mail.gmail.com>

Chris,
Rather than trying to mess around with making and securing a shim, would it
be easier to re-fabricate that entire forward vertical blocking between the
rudderhead faces?

Todd T

On Sun, Dec 4, 2022, 9:34 AM Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu> wrote:

> I was able to take a look at the rudder yesterday. In hindsight, I can't
> believe that it took me 5 full seasons of sailing to recognize that this
> was a potential problem. Attached are three photos. The first gives a
> sense of how far the rudder swings under the hull when the down-haul is
> used to pull the rudder against the "stop".  In the second photo I have
> placed a white piece of plastic vertically to make more obvious how much
> past vertical the rudder is when it is against the stop. The forward
> edge of the white plastic is parallel with the forward edge of the
> rudder head. The third photo shows the "stop" which is the forward side
> of the rudder head (as Roger stated).
>
> As Roger predicted in his previous email, it appears that the mechanical
> variations of this particular rudder and rudder head allow the rudder to
> rotate too far forward. As he suggested, I will experiment with a shim
> to correct this. If this does not work out easily, I will place a mark
> on the up-haul so that I know how far to deploy it to keep the rudder
> from over-rotating, and then tension the down-haul against it.
>
> Chris
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From scott at hypnosisconnection.com  Sun Dec  4 10:41:33 2022
From: scott at hypnosisconnection.com (Scott McFall)
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2022 10:41:33 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 4477, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1847.1670168315.2787.rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
References: <mailman.1847.1670168315.2787.rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
Message-ID: <73FF65F2-2F3B-4AEE-8480-ECDCA845F924@hypnosisconnection.com>

I am selling my 2008 Rhodes 22 if anyone is looking.  I am wanting 17500. Not sure if we do that in this feed or not

> On Dec 4, 2022, at 10:38 AM, rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org wrote:
> 
> Send Rhodes22-list mailing list submissions to
> 	rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	rhodes22-list-owner at rhodes22.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Rhodes22-list digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (jpd9668)
>   2. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (jpd9668)
>   3. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (jpd9668)
>   4. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Chris on LBI)
>   5. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (jpd9668 at gmail.com)
>   6. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (ROGER PIHLAJA)
>   7. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Chris on LBI)
>   8. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Chris on LBI)
>   9. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (jpd9668)
>  10. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Chris on LBI)
>  11. Removing Gas from Fuel Line (Lee Kuhn)
>  12. Re: Removing Gas from Fuel Line (Peter Nyberg)
>  13. Re: Removing Gas from Fuel Line (ROGER PIHLAJA)
>  14. Re: Removing Gas from Fuel Line (cjlowe at sssnet.com)
>  15. Re: Removing Gas from Fuel Line (Lee Kuhn)
>  16. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Chris on LBI)
>  17. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Mary Lou Troy)
>  18. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Todd Tavares)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2022 09:03:58 -0500
> From: jpd9668 <jpd9668 at gmail.com>
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> Message-ID: <63821cdb.020a0220.9bd25.399c at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> I don't know what definition of curve is, but there is none unless it's in the plane of the surface which is probably the result of the layup of the fibreglass.Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone
> -------- Original message --------From: ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com> Date: 11/25/22  5:48 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 Bob,I agree with Peter.? If there are any differences between the two rudders, they are not readily apparent in the photos.? Is there any measurable difference in parameters like maximum thickness, chord length from the leading edge to point of maximum thickness, etc?? Is there any asymetery in the curvature of the hydrofoil on each side? Both rudders appear to be straight.? What do you mean by ?curved??Roger PihlajaS/V Dynamic EquilibriumSent from my iPhone> On Nov 25, 2022, at 5:26 PM, Peter Nyberg <peter at sunnybeeches.com> wrote:> > ?Bob,> > You seem happy with your new rudder, and so I'm happy for you as well, but those two rudders look pretty much the same to me.> > --Peter> >> On 2022-11-25, at 17:09:29 EST, C. Robert Lester wrote:>> >> I'm the
>  new owner of a rudder off an '82 R22.>> Cannot wait to sail / race next sailing season.>> Took some pics of my '84 Rudder (curved, black/red) and '82 Rudder (white) side >> by side. >> The boats are only 2 years apart but the rudder heads as well as the rudders are >> not similar at all. >> I was going to buy the '82 stern rail as well but that is even a different mount >> and size from my '84. >> Comments, questions?>> >> Thanks all,>> Bob>> '84 ORION>> >> >> >> >> <a >> href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7C%7Cd09861f000784a7cb42808dacf340f30%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638050119754738534%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=2%2FlYlSVnEpTnaNqcJ6KcohYH5Mp6bJicXQXi5es2bCg%3D&amp;reserved=0" >> target="_blank">Rudder 1a.jpg</a> >> >> <a 
>>> href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0001.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7C%7Cd09861f000784a7cb42808dacf340f30%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638050119754738534%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=jb%2FqyXGnRhbl%2B96mT3YAC7z6k%2FGWx16Nu09%2Bv%2BBz3pU%3D&amp;reserved=0" >> target="_blank">Rudder 2a.jpg</a> >> >> <a >> href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0002.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7C%7Cd09861f000784a7cb42808dacf340f30%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638050119754738534%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=1gLAUSJD%2FLJHorQ5gSy79T%2B9EPYD3M5%2Bf6hkidjNvnY%3D&a
> mp;reserved=0" >> target="_blank">Rudder 3a.jpg</a> >> > 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2022 09:10:09 -0500
> From: jpd9668 <jpd9668 at gmail.com>
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> Message-ID: <63821e4f.020a0220.9bd25.39b5 at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Well, that's not good. Its bent! Don't know what would cause that, but I would think that it will affect performance through increased drag. Roger would know better than I.?Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone
> -------- Original message --------From: "C. Robert Lester" <C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu> Date: 11/25/22  7:17 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 Thanks Peter.Forgive me for not being able to capture the differences in shape with the first pics.Here is the original pic that I posted. (Yes, that is snow on the ground when I pulled her at end of season.).Note:Tiller handle was placed, centerline.Rudder head at top you can see bolts & nuts both sides.Rudder is twisted to port, but curved to Starboard.I hope this is helpful.Not the pics yesterday show the "patches" of repair that were exposed by pressure washing off the red and black paint this summer.Bob'84 Orion-----Original Message-----From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of Peter NybergSent: Friday, November 25, 2022 5:26 PMTo: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.orgSubject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84
>  Rhodes 22Bob,You seem happy with your new rudder, and so I'm happy for you as well, but those two rudders look pretty much the same to me.--Peter> On 2022-11-25, at 17:09:29 EST, C. Robert Lester wrote:>> I'm the new owner of a rudder off an '82 R22.> Cannot wait to sail / race next sailing season.> Took some pics of my '84 Rudder (curved, black/red) and '82 Rudder > (white) side by side.> The boats are only 2 years apart but the rudder heads as well as the > rudders are not similar at all.> I was going to buy the '82 stern rail as well but that is even a > different mount and size from my '84.> Comments, questions?> > Thanks all,> Bob> '84 ORION> > > > > <a> href="https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C91e9c5d0f0f848ba822108dacf340ef6%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050119769164077%7CUnk
> nown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=jAH1SgjXpqNVYA9DFo%2BOaW51Yru7cRlFl1y%2Fk5WFwDs%3D&amp;reserved=0" > target="_blank">Rudder 1a.jpg</a>> > <a> href="https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0001.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C91e9c5d0f0f848ba822108dacf340ef6%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050119769164077%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=bhZbS3G14v5gWsMzgfXiKpbleK6dYLGM5Kfquowb1Kg%3D&amp;reserved=0" > target="_blank">Rudder 2a.jpg</a>> > <a> href="https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0002.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C9
> 1e9c5d0f0f848ba822108dacf340ef6%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050119769164077%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=vjTwF84WbZig1mFjUzfjKx6C0y9II68CqjER8ceXTfU%3D&amp;reserved=0" > target="_blank">Rudder 3a.jpg</a>> -------------- next part --------------A non-text attachment was scrubbed...Name: Rudder 4a.jpgType: image/jpegSize: 413162 bytesDesc: Rudder 4a.jpgURL: <http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221126/a02587b5/attachment.jpg>
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2022 09:13:30 -0500
> From: jpd9668 <jpd9668 at gmail.com>
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> Message-ID: <63821f0f.020a0220.9bd25.39be at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> ?I don't think there's any difference between 82 and 84 or any other year rudders. Don't stigmatize '84 rudders!Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone
> -------- Original message --------From: "C. Robert Lester" <C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu> Date: 11/25/22  9:31 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 Thanks Roger.Sailing the last 10 yrs of ORION has been favored port tack, with a Catalina 22 rudder tiller.It will be nice next season to see how this '82 rudder tacks?Bob'84 ORION-----Original Message-----From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of ROGER PIHLAJASent: Friday, November 25, 2022 8:33 PMTo: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22Hi Bob,OK, now I see what you mean.? Is that much misalignment noticeable under sail??? Is the tiller position different to go straight ahead on port tack vs starboard tack?Anyway, I don?t think there is any way to fix that rudder blade.? So, you did the right thing to replace it.Roger PihlajaS/V Dynami
> c EquilibriumSent from my iPhone> On Nov 25, 2022, at 7:17 PM, C. Robert Lester <C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu> wrote:> > ?Thanks Peter.> Forgive me for not being able to capture the differences in shape with the first pics.> Here is the original pic that I posted. (Yes, that is snow on the ground when I pulled her at end of season.).> Note:> Tiller handle was placed, centerline.> Rudder head at top you can see bolts & nuts both sides.> Rudder is twisted to port, but curved to Starboard.> I hope this is helpful.> Not the pics yesterday show the "patches" of repair that were exposed by pressure washing off the red and black paint this summer.> Bob> '84 Orion> > > -----Original Message-----> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of > Peter Nyberg> Sent: Friday, November 25, 2022 5:26 PM> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Bob,> > You seem happy with your new rudder, and so I'm happy for you 
> as well, but those two rudders look pretty much the same to me.> > --Peter> >> On 2022-11-25, at 17:09:29 EST, C. Robert Lester wrote:>> >> I'm the new owner of a rudder off an '82 R22.>> Cannot wait to sail / race next sailing season.>> Took some pics of my '84 Rudder (curved, black/red) and '82 Rudder>> (white) side by side.>> The boats are only 2 years apart but the rudder heads as well as the >> rudders are not similar at all.>> I was going to buy the '82 stern rail as well but that is even a >> different mount and size from my '84.>> Comments, questions?>> >> Thanks all,>> Bob>> '84 ORION>> >> >> >> >> <a>> href="https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C1dde6b93ce3d4e739c2d08dacf4e2bfa%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050231897795227%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2
> luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=5%2FvGDzW4lyDlY8bxd8C0SnVIagsqenG%2FNl74DWRsU24%3D&amp;reserved=0" >> target="_blank">Rudder 1a.jpg</a>>> >> <a>> href="https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0001.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C1dde6b93ce3d4e739c2d08dacf4e2bfa%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050231897795227%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=6%2FVPk0Yz0raPaBiMYAaNVBCs6BuuLQqJ4yaULWKtmH8%3D&amp;reserved=0" >> target="_blank">Rudder 2a.jpg</a>>> >> <a>> href="https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0002.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C1dde6b93ce3d4e739c2d08dacf4e2bfa%7C995b0
> 93648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050231897795227%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=falg7p83u8J%2FJM8rsVG3WYzN2JmNaPn06t2a0pbB0bA%3D&amp;reserved=0" >> target="_blank">Rudder 3a.jpg</a>>> > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was > scrubbed...> Name: Rudder 4a.jpg> Type: image/jpeg> Size: 413162 bytes> Desc: Rudder 4a.jpg> URL: <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221126%2Fa02587b5%2Fattachment.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C1dde6b93ce3d4e739c2d08dacf4e2bfa%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050231897795227%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=%2FfotS3oaMoPJ49l2BJvvTqJIHg7PKELw63aG5D1ORAY%3D&amp;reserved=0>
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 11:37:24 -0500
> From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu>
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> Message-ID: <c5674348-daad-0878-9b7e-814b9df175c8 at vt.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
> 
> It is so interesting that to me that this topic just came up. I've been 
> thinking about posting some late-season observations about my Rhodes 
> that are closely related to this thread.
> 
> After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be excessive lee 
> helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the forward edge 
> of my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white rudder shown in 
> Bob's photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to rectify this, I 
> changed how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than pull it tight, 
> I eased off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the leading 
> edge of the rudder close to vertical.
> 
> I only had the opportunity to try this twice before we had to take the 
> boat out for the season, but in both outings, I was able to much more 
> easily balance the helm and was able to tack very close to 90 degrees 
> (something that eluded me on this boat since we purchased her). Attached 
> is a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while 
> sailing as close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were 
> about 95 degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so 
> I consider this a great improvement.
> 
> Also, prior to trying this adjustment with the rudder, we frequently had 
> difficulty bringing the bow through the wind; we had to be very precise 
> with our timing of releasing sheets. I did not have the opportunity to 
> test the change in high wind conditions, but she seemed to be much more 
> responsive to a turn to windward.
> 
> I'll continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a 
> way to be sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.
> 
> Chris
> 
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 13:13:33 -0500
> From: <jpd9668 at gmail.com>
> To: "'The Rhodes 22 Email List'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> Message-ID: <000201d9041e$513b6fc0$f3b24f40$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="utf-8"
> 
> Chris,
> Yours is much different than my experience. Until Stan instructed me how to use the downhaul on the rudder, I had severe lee helm. Once I pulled the downhaul tight my helm has been balanced ever since. If you're getting 95 deg. or less on point, that's pretty good. Do you have roller furling jib?
> 
> Joe Dempsey
> S/V Respite
> Deltaville, VA
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of Chris on LBI
> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2022 11:37 AM
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> 
> It is so interesting that to me that this topic just came up. I've been thinking about posting some late-season observations about my Rhodes that are closely related to this thread.
> 
> After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be excessive lee helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the forward edge of my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white rudder shown in Bob's photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to rectify this, I changed how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than pull it tight, I eased off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the leading edge of the rudder close to vertical.
> 
> I only had the opportunity to try this twice before we had to take the boat out for the season, but in both outings, I was able to much more easily balance the helm and was able to tack very close to 90 degrees (something that eluded me on this boat since we purchased her). Attached is a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while sailing as close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were about 95 degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so I consider this a great improvement.
> 
> Also, prior to trying this adjustment with the rudder, we frequently had difficulty bringing the bow through the wind; we had to be very precise with our timing of releasing sheets. I did not have the opportunity to test the change in high wind conditions, but she seemed to be much more responsive to a turn to windward.
> 
> I'll continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a way to be sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.
> 
> Chris
> 
> -------------- next part --------------
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> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 19:55:21 +0000
> From: ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com>
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> Message-ID:
> 	<CY8PR10MB6683D4528620D2943A4CEFFF80129 at CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
> 	
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Chris,
> 
> After reading your post, I went out and looked my boat?s rudder.  On my R-22, the rudder blade pivots until it comes up against the underside of the rudder head.  On my boat, the leading edge of the rudder blade makes a straight line with the leading edge of the rudder head when the rudder blade is all the way down against this positive mechanical stop.  However, there are several manufacturing tolerances that can affect this geometry.  The exact size and shape of the rudder head and rudder blade relative to the location of the rudder blade?s pivot are critical.  If your rudder blade pivots too far forward, probably the easiest way to fix it will be to install a shim in between the bottom of the rudder head and the top of the rudder blade.
> 
> I know from experience; that, pivoting the rudder blade up tends to increase weather helm.  But, in my experience, the helm is not that sensitive to this adjustment, especially when the rudder blade is nearly fully down.  How much did you have to move the rudder blade in order to get rid of your lee helm?
> 
> By the way, what was your angle of heel when you were doing your tacking angle experiment?  As you may know, the wetted surface area of the R-22 hull becomes very asymmetric as the hull heels over.  The asymmetry tends to produce weather helm, becoming more pronounced as the angle of heel increases.  You may find your boat has lee helm when sailed flat, transitioning to neutral helm, and then weather helm as you heel over.  Before you modify your rudder, be certain you are not introducing heavy weather helm when the boat?s rail is in the water.
> 
> Roger Pihlaja
> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
>> On Nov 29, 2022, at 1:13 PM, jpd9668 at gmail.com wrote:
>> 
>> ?Chris,
>> Yours is much different than my experience. Until Stan instructed me how to use the downhaul on the rudder, I had severe lee helm. Once I pulled the downhaul tight my helm has been balanced ever since. If you're getting 95 deg. or less on point, that's pretty good. Do you have roller furling jib?
>> 
>> Joe Dempsey
>> S/V Respite
>> Deltaville, VA
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of Chris on LBI
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2022 11:37 AM
>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
>> 
>> It is so interesting that to me that this topic just came up. I've been thinking about posting some late-season observations about my Rhodes that are closely related to this thread.
>> 
>> After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be excessive lee helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the forward edge of my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white rudder shown in Bob's photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to rectify this, I changed how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than pull it tight, I eased off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the leading edge of the rudder close to vertical.
>> 
>> I only had the opportunity to try this twice before we had to take the boat out for the season, but in both outings, I was able to much more easily balance the helm and was able to tack very close to 90 degrees (something that eluded me on this boat since we purchased her). Attached is a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while sailing as close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were about 95 degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so I consider this a great improvement.
>> 
>> Also, prior to trying this adjustment with the rudder, we frequently had difficulty bringing the bow through the wind; we had to be very precise with our timing of releasing sheets. I did not have the opportunity to test the change in high wind conditions, but she seemed to be much more responsive to a turn to windward.
>> 
>> I'll continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a way to be sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.
>> 
>> Chris
>> 
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 23:25:59 -0500
> From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu>
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> Message-ID: <b482d3ee-6fbb-a590-0f60-6b2eccf7982f at vt.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> 
> Joe,
> I do have a roller furling jib. On this particular day, when I was 
> experimenting, I had my 130 genoa unfurled to the upper shrouds.
> Chris
> 
> On 11/29/2022 1:13 PM, jpd9668 at gmail.com wrote:
>> Chris,
>> Yours is much different than my experience. Until Stan instructed me how to use the downhaul on the rudder, I had severe lee helm. Once I pulled the downhaul tight my helm has been balanced ever since. If you're getting 95 deg. or less on point, that's pretty good. Do you have roller furling jib?
>> 
>> Joe Dempsey
>> S/V Respite
>> Deltaville, VA
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of Chris on LBI
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2022 11:37 AM
>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
>> 
>> It is so interesting that to me that this topic just came up. I've been thinking about posting some late-season observations about my Rhodes that are closely related to this thread.
>> 
>> After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be excessive lee helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the forward edge of my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white rudder shown in Bob's photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to rectify this, I changed how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than pull it tight, I eased off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the leading edge of the rudder close to vertical.
>> 
>> I only had the opportunity to try this twice before we had to take the boat out for the season, but in both outings, I was able to much more easily balance the helm and was able to tack very close to 90 degrees (something that eluded me on this boat since we purchased her). Attached is a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while sailing as close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were about 95 degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so I consider this a great improvement.
>> 
>> Also, prior to trying this adjustment with the rudder, we frequently had difficulty bringing the bow through the wind; we had to be very precise with our timing of releasing sheets. I did not have the opportunity to test the change in high wind conditions, but she seemed to be much more responsive to a turn to windward.
>> 
>> I'll continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a way to be sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.
>> 
>> Chris
>> 
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>> URL: <http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221129/2624e7f9/attachment.png>
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 00:04:49 -0500
> From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu>
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> Message-ID: <f0d18634-48d9-7382-498d-3774198dc6de at vt.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> 
> Roger,
> 
> I don't have a sense for how much I moved the rudder blade on my two 
> trials. I was just hoping that some change would be noticeable. I'll pay 
> more attention next season, and, next time I have a chance, I'll try to 
> measure the difference between the "full down haul" position and the 
> vertical position. I'll also look at the mechanical stop to get a sense 
> for how a shim might be implemented. But for now, I think just using the 
> tension between the down-haul and the up-haul will be best for 
> experimenting so that I can convince myself that helm behavior really 
> does change.
> 
> On the two days that I experimented, I was intentionally keeping the 
> heel angle minimal, attempting to keep it flat. The winds were around 10 
> kts. I had the 130 genoa unfurled to the upper shrouds. So the luff of 
> the headsail was not shaped well due to the sail furled on the headstay.
> 
> On many days, we find ourselves sailing in 18 to 20 kts. We tend to be 
> timid about heeling too much and generally either fall off to a more 
> comfortable (flatter) reach or reduce sail. I've never really 
> experienced the transition to weather helm due to heeling - even when we 
> are heeled past our comfort angle. We probably head up before heeling 
> sufficiently to cause the hull shape to induce weather helm.
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> On 11/29/2022 2:55 PM, ROGER PIHLAJA wrote:
>> Chris,
>> 
>> After reading your post, I went out and looked my boat?s rudder.  On my R-22, the rudder blade pivots until it comes up against the underside of the rudder head.  On my boat, the leading edge of the rudder blade makes a straight line with the leading edge of the rudder head when the rudder blade is all the way down against this positive mechanical stop.  However, there are several manufacturing tolerances that can affect this geometry.  The exact size and shape of the rudder head and rudder blade relative to the location of the rudder blade?s pivot are critical.  If your rudder blade pivots too far forward, probably the easiest way to fix it will be to install a shim in between the bottom of the rudder head and the top of the rudder blade.
>> 
>> I know from experience; that, pivoting the rudder blade up tends to increase weather helm.  But, in my experience, the helm is not that sensitive to this adjustment, especially when the rudder blade is nearly fully down.  How much did you have to move the rudder blade in order to get rid of your lee helm?
>> 
>> By the way, what was your angle of heel when you were doing your tacking angle experiment?  As you may know, the wetted surface area of the R-22 hull becomes very asymmetric as the hull heels over.  The asymmetry tends to produce weather helm, becoming more pronounced as the angle of heel increases.  You may find your boat has lee helm when sailed flat, transitioning to neutral helm, and then weather helm as you heel over.  Before you modify your rudder, be certain you are not introducing heavy weather helm when the boat?s rail is in the water.
>> 
>> Roger Pihlaja
>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> On Nov 29, 2022, at 1:13 PM, jpd9668 at gmail.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?Chris,
>>> Yours is much different than my experience. Until Stan instructed me how to use the downhaul on the rudder, I had severe lee helm. Once I pulled the downhaul tight my helm has been balanced ever since. If you're getting 95 deg. or less on point, that's pretty good. Do you have roller furling jib?
>>> 
>>> Joe Dempsey
>>> S/V Respite
>>> Deltaville, VA
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of Chris on LBI
>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2022 11:37 AM
>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
>>> 
>>> It is so interesting that to me that this topic just came up. I've been thinking about posting some late-season observations about my Rhodes that are closely related to this thread.
>>> 
>>> After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be excessive lee helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the forward edge of my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white rudder shown in Bob's photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to rectify this, I changed how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than pull it tight, I eased off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the leading edge of the rudder close to vertical.
>>> 
>>> I only had the opportunity to try this twice before we had to take the boat out for the season, but in both outings, I was able to much more easily balance the helm and was able to tack very close to 90 degrees (something that eluded me on this boat since we purchased her). Attached is a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while sailing as close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were about 95 degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so I consider this a great improvement.
>>> 
>>> Also, prior to trying this adjustment with the rudder, we frequently had difficulty bringing the bow through the wind; we had to be very precise with our timing of releasing sheets. I did not have the opportunity to test the change in high wind conditions, but she seemed to be much more responsive to a turn to windward.
>>> 
>>> I'll continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a way to be sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.
>>> 
>>> Chris
>>> 
>>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 9
> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 08:13:30 -0500
> From: jpd9668 <jpd9668 at gmail.com>
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> Message-ID: <63875705.020a0220.7c723.105e at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Chris,I was very un-clear. The 95 degrees i was referring to was from 45+ degrees on either side of the wind. Was that your point of reference as well? I can get 45 degrees on Port tack? but have trouble getting that close on on starboard tack.Joe DempseySent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone
> -------- Original message --------From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu> Date: 11/29/22  11:26 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 Joe,I do have a roller furling jib. On this particular day, when I was experimenting, I had my 130 genoa unfurled to the upper shrouds.ChrisOn 11/29/2022 1:13 PM, jpd9668 at gmail.com wrote:> Chris,> Yours is much different than my experience. Until Stan instructed me how to use the downhaul on the rudder, I had severe lee helm. Once I pulled the downhaul tight my helm has been balanced ever since. If you're getting 95 deg. or less on point, that's pretty good. Do you have roller furling jib?>> Joe Dempsey> S/V Respite> Deltaville, VA>> -----Original Message-----> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of Chris on LBI> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2022 11:37 AM> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> Subject: Re: 
> [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22>> It is so interesting that to me that this topic just came up. I've been thinking about posting some late-season observations about my Rhodes that are closely related to this thread.>> After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be excessive lee helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the forward edge of my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white rudder shown in Bob's photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to rectify this, I changed how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than pull it tight, I eased off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the leading edge of the rudder close to vertical.>> I only had the opportunity to try this twice before we had to take the boat out for the season, but in both outings, I was able to much more easily balance the helm and was able to tack very close to 90 degrees (something that eluded me on this boat since we purchased her). Attached 
> is a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while sailing as close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were about 95 degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so I consider this a great improvement.>> Also, prior to trying this adjustment with the rudder, we frequently had difficulty bringing the bow through the wind; we had to be very precise with our timing of releasing sheets. I did not have the opportunity to test the change in high wind conditions, but she seemed to be much more responsive to a turn to windward.>> I'll continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a way to be sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.>> Chris>> -------------- next part --------------> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> Name: IMG_4528.PNG> Type: image/png> Size: 460057 bytes> Desc: not available> URL: <http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221129/2624e7f9/attachment.png>>
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 10
> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 09:51:19 -0500
> From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu>
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> Message-ID: <6d06f513-d256-ca5d-0877-3e0065372fc7 at vt.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> 
> Joe,
> 
> I'm not sure which tack I do better on. I'll have to try to check next 
> season. I'm afraid that it might be difficult for me to know for sure 
> since I am always dealing with significant tidal currents that make 
> precise measurements like that nearly impossible.
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 11
> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 17:11:30 -0500
> From: Lee Kuhn <lvjkuhn at gmail.com>
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Removing Gas from Fuel Line
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAPgvAEmLX7eK5u+y+CKO1chXfn-2HMT1WPSNuo40riptahb_fQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> What's the easiest way to remove gas from the fuel hose?  The hose has a
> ball spring valve at both ends.  I was told not to push the valve open with
> some type of tool because I could damage the valve.
> 
> I disconnected the tank and put it in the lazarette and then reran the hose
> into the lazarette and reconnected the hose to the tank which opened the
> valve on that end.  I then disconnected the hose from the outboard and
> held it up as high as I could (gravity) and squeezed the primer.  The
> primer pumps gas in the opposite direction than I wanted but if you squeeze
> it hard and slow the gas will eventually drain into the tank.
> 
> Seems like there must be a better way.  The gas was ethanol-free with a
> stabilizer.  Should I just leave it in the hose and hope I won't have any
> problems starting the outboard in the Spring?
> 
> Lee
> 1999 Rhodes22  AT EASE
> Claytor Lake, VA
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 12
> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 14:30:19 -0800
> From: Peter Nyberg <peter at sunnybeeches.com> 
> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Removing Gas from Fuel Line
> Message-ID: <E1p0Vat-0063j5-BP at s152.servername.online>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> 
> Lee,
> 
> It never occurred to me to worry about this.  I do empty my boat fuel tanks into a vehicle in the fall, and I do use a stabilizer for all my boat fuel.  But, I don't have a convenient source for ethanol-free fuel, so I use the universal 90/10 mix.  
> 
> Long story short, I've never had a problem getting my outboard running in the spring. 
> 
> Peter Nyberg
> Coventry, CT
> s/v Silverheels (1988/2016)
> 
>> On 2022-11-30, at 17:11:30 EST, Lee Kuhn wrote:
>> 
>> What's the easiest way to remove gas from the fuel hose?  The hose has a ball 
>> spring valve at both ends.  I was told not to push the valve open with some type 
>> of tool because I could damage the valve. 
>> 
>> I disconnected the tank and put it in the lazarette and then reran the hose into 
>> the lazarette and reconnected the hose to the tank which opened the valve on 
>> that end.  I then disconnected the hose from the outboard and held it up as high 
>> as I could (gravity) and squeezed the primer.  The primer pumps gas in the 
>> opposite direction than I wanted but if you squeeze it hard and slow the gas 
>> will eventually drain into the tank. 
>> 
>> Seems like there must be a better way.  The gas was ethanol-free with a 
>> stabilizer.  Should I just leave it in the hose and hope I won't have any 
>> problems starting the outboard in the Spring? 
>> 
>> Lee
>> 1999 Rhodes22  AT EASE
>> Claytor Lake, VA
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 13
> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 22:34:37 +0000
> From: ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com>
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Removing Gas from Fuel Line
> Message-ID:
> 	<CY8PR10MB668383056F98D5A9E6BA561880159 at CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
> 	
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Lee,
> 
> As long as you push on the ball check valve with something soft, like a piece of plastic, you are unlikely to damage it.  I always drain the gas line at the end of the season.
> 
> Roger Pihlaja
> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Nov 30, 2022, at 5:11 PM, Lee Kuhn <lvjkuhn at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> ?What's the easiest way to remove gas from the fuel hose?  The hose has a
>> ball spring valve at both ends.  I was told not to push the valve open with
>> some type of tool because I could damage the valve.
>> 
>> I disconnected the tank and put it in the lazarette and then reran the hose
>> into the lazarette and reconnected the hose to the tank which opened the
>> valve on that end.  I then disconnected the hose from the outboard and
>> held it up as high as I could (gravity) and squeezed the primer.  The
>> primer pumps gas in the opposite direction than I wanted but if you squeeze
>> it hard and slow the gas will eventually drain into the tank.
>> 
>> Seems like there must be a better way.  The gas was ethanol-free with a
>> stabilizer.  Should I just leave it in the hose and hope I won't have any
>> problems starting the outboard in the Spring?
>> 
>> Lee
>> 1999 Rhodes22  AT EASE
>> Claytor Lake, VA
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 14
> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 21:56:55 -0500 (EST)
> From: cjlowe at sssnet.com
> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Removing Gas from Fuel Line
> Message-ID:
> 	<55562.24.140.30.102.1669863415.squirrel at quickpop.sssnet.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
> 
>> Lee,
> 
>  I bought a replacement for my motor connection, and keep on board in
> spare parts. End of season, I put the gas tank in the bed of the truck ,
> put the spare connector on the end of the hose and stick it in a five
> gallon gas can, pump the bulb a couple times and drink a beer.
> 
> 
> Jerry Lowe SV Country Rhodes '86
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lee,
>> 
>> As long as you push on the ball check valve with something soft, like a
>> piece of plastic, you are unlikely to damage it.  I always drain the gas
>> line at the end of the season.
>> 
>> Roger Pihlaja
>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Nov 30, 2022, at 5:11 PM, Lee Kuhn <lvjkuhn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ???What's the easiest way to remove gas from the fuel hose?  The hose
>>> has a
>>> ball spring valve at both ends.  I was told not to push the valve open
>>> with
>>> some type of tool because I could damage the valve.
>>> 
>>> I disconnected the tank and put it in the lazarette and then reran the
>>> hose
>>> into the lazarette and reconnected the hose to the tank which opened
>>> the
>>> valve on that end.  I then disconnected the hose from the outboard and
>>> held it up as high as I could (gravity) and squeezed the primer.  The
>>> primer pumps gas in the opposite direction than I wanted but if you
>>> squeeze
>>> it hard and slow the gas will eventually drain into the tank.
>>> 
>>> Seems like there must be a better way.  The gas was ethanol-free with a
>>> stabilizer.  Should I just leave it in the hose and hope I won't have
>>> any
>>> problems starting the outboard in the Spring?
>>> 
>>> Lee
>>> 1999 Rhodes22  AT EASE
>>> Claytor Lake, VA
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 15
> Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2022 11:20:16 -0500
> From: Lee Kuhn <lvjkuhn at gmail.com>
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Removing Gas from Fuel Line
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAPgvAEmEw1T0F=j6vm7_B41=v2qw5quKvjERcOc08r2D+zUFrA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> I like Roger's idea to release the ball-spring with something that won't
> cause damage.  If I place the tank on the cockpit seat I and pull the hose
> down tight I should be able to get most of the gas out, and on me.
> 
> I like Peter's idea to do nothing.  I'm really good at that.  I'll probably
> use this method along with Jerry's idea to drink a beer.
> 
> Thanks guys!
> 
> Lee
> 
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 10:02 PM <cjlowe at sssnet.com> wrote:
> 
>>> Lee,
>> 
>>  I bought a replacement for my motor connection, and keep on board in
>> spare parts. End of season, I put the gas tank in the bed of the truck ,
>> put the spare connector on the end of the hose and stick it in a five
>> gallon gas can, pump the bulb a couple times and drink a beer.
>> 
>> 
>> Jerry Lowe SV Country Rhodes '86
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Lee,
>>> 
>>> As long as you push on the ball check valve with something soft, like a
>>> piece of plastic, you are unlikely to damage it.  I always drain the gas
>>> line at the end of the season.
>>> 
>>> Roger Pihlaja
>>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Nov 30, 2022, at 5:11 PM, Lee Kuhn <lvjkuhn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?What's the easiest way to remove gas from the fuel hose?  The hose
>>>> has a
>>>> ball spring valve at both ends.  I was told not to push the valve open
>>>> with
>>>> some type of tool because I could damage the valve.
>>>> 
>>>> I disconnected the tank and put it in the lazarette and then reran the
>>>> hose
>>>> into the lazarette and reconnected the hose to the tank which opened
>>>> the
>>>> valve on that end.  I then disconnected the hose from the outboard and
>>>> held it up as high as I could (gravity) and squeezed the primer.  The
>>>> primer pumps gas in the opposite direction than I wanted but if you
>>>> squeeze
>>>> it hard and slow the gas will eventually drain into the tank.
>>>> 
>>>> Seems like there must be a better way.  The gas was ethanol-free with a
>>>> stabilizer.  Should I just leave it in the hose and hope I won't have
>>>> any
>>>> problems starting the outboard in the Spring?
>>>> 
>>>> Lee
>>>> 1999 Rhodes22  AT EASE
>>>> Claytor Lake, VA
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 16
> Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2022 09:34:31 -0500
> From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu>
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> Message-ID: <9d4c38a9-5e00-a0a0-7528-73c2e3aa8422 at vt.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
> 
> I was able to take a look at the rudder yesterday. In hindsight, I can't 
> believe that it took me 5 full seasons of sailing to recognize that this 
> was a potential problem. Attached are three photos. The first gives a 
> sense of how far the rudder swings under the hull when the down-haul is 
> used to pull the rudder against the "stop".? In the second photo I have 
> placed a white piece of plastic vertically to make more obvious how much 
> past vertical the rudder is when it is against the stop. The forward 
> edge of the white plastic is parallel with the forward edge of the 
> rudder head. The third photo shows the "stop" which is the forward side 
> of the rudder head (as Roger stated).
> 
> As Roger predicted in his previous email, it appears that the mechanical 
> variations of this particular rudder and rudder head allow the rudder to 
> rotate too far forward. As he suggested, I will experiment with a shim 
> to correct this. If this does not work out easily, I will place a mark 
> on the up-haul so that I know how far to deploy it to keep the rudder 
> from over-rotating, and then tension the down-haul against it.
> 
> Chris
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 17
> Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2022 10:14:48 -0500
> From: Mary Lou Troy <mtroy at atlanticbb.net>
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> Message-ID: <01193a8d-1d85-3485-05a1-959ac2b949a7 at atlanticbb.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> 
> I have not been following this discussion closely and I am relying on 
> memory here so take these statements with a grain of salt.
> 
> When we purchased Fretless (recycled) in 1998 we had a number of 
> discussions with Stan about rigging, helm and the rudder. He was quite 
> clear that the proper position for the rudder underway was pulled 
> forward of vertical so it was somewhat under the hull. Fred and I both 
> remember the boat as being somewhat sluggish and less responsive if the 
> rudder was not pulled far enough forward. Helm was also affected by the 
> position of the rudder.
> 
> I'll keep an eye out the results of your testing as I suppose it is 
> indeed possible to have it too far forward if the fittings have changed 
> but Stan set up our boat and we always pulled it as far forward as it 
> would go.
> 
> When doing your tests, make sure all the other variables are the same - 
> for example the boat is very affected, usually positively, by weight in 
> the bow. As our water tank was nearly centerline, we usually had it 
> filled more than half way.
> 
> All our best,
> Mary Lou (and Fred)
> ex Rhodes 22
> now Rosborough RF-246? Tara
> Rock Hall, MD
> 
> On 12/4/2022 9:34 AM, Chris on LBI wrote:
>> I was able to take a look at the rudder yesterday. In hindsight, I 
>> can't believe that it took me 5 full seasons of sailing to recognize 
>> that this was a potential problem. Attached are three photos. The 
>> first gives a sense of how far the rudder swings under the hull when 
>> the down-haul is used to pull the rudder against the "stop". In the 
>> second photo I have placed a white piece of plastic vertically to make 
>> more obvious how much past vertical the rudder is when it is against 
>> the stop. The forward edge of the white plastic is parallel with the 
>> forward edge of the rudder head. The third photo shows the "stop" 
>> which is the forward side of the rudder head (as Roger stated).
>> 
>> As Roger predicted in his previous email, it appears that the 
>> mechanical variations of this particular rudder and rudder head allow 
>> the rudder to rotate too far forward. As he suggested, I will 
>> experiment with a shim to correct this. If this does not work out 
>> easily, I will place a mark on the up-haul so that I know how far to 
>> deploy it to keep the rudder from over-rotating, and then tension the 
>> down-haul against it.
>> 
>> Chris
>> -------------- next part --------------
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> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 18
> Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2022 10:38:22 -0500
> From: Todd Tavares <tavares0947 at gmail.com>
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAB-twMN_dJb0-eHOQC9j3P_2TPx5a=EjrHrOfCMLguGGZLiq=A at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Chris,
> Rather than trying to mess around with making and securing a shim, would it
> be easier to re-fabricate that entire forward vertical blocking between the
> rudderhead faces?
> 
> Todd T
> 
> On Sun, Dec 4, 2022, 9:34 AM Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu> wrote:
> 
>> I was able to take a look at the rudder yesterday. In hindsight, I can't
>> believe that it took me 5 full seasons of sailing to recognize that this
>> was a potential problem. Attached are three photos. The first gives a
>> sense of how far the rudder swings under the hull when the down-haul is
>> used to pull the rudder against the "stop".  In the second photo I have
>> placed a white piece of plastic vertically to make more obvious how much
>> past vertical the rudder is when it is against the stop. The forward
>> edge of the white plastic is parallel with the forward edge of the
>> rudder head. The third photo shows the "stop" which is the forward side
>> of the rudder head (as Roger stated).
>> 
>> As Roger predicted in his previous email, it appears that the mechanical
>> variations of this particular rudder and rudder head allow the rudder to
>> rotate too far forward. As he suggested, I will experiment with a shim
>> to correct this. If this does not work out easily, I will place a mark
>> on the up-haul so that I know how far to deploy it to keep the rudder
>> from over-rotating, and then tension the down-haul against it.
>> 
>> Chris
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rhodes22-list mailing list
> Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> http://rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 4477, Issue 1
> **********************************************


From snstaum at gmail.com  Sun Dec  4 12:07:31 2022
From: snstaum at gmail.com (Stephen Staum)
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2022 12:07:31 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 4477, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <73FF65F2-2F3B-4AEE-8480-ECDCA845F924@hypnosisconnection.com>
References: <mailman.1847.1670168315.2787.rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
 <73FF65F2-2F3B-4AEE-8480-ECDCA845F924@hypnosisconnection.com>
Message-ID: <CAOo_FjeRzGYzBbK7LVwspyy2h6LHc6k8ubhmq-OVaYwEQrCpfA@mail.gmail.com>

Can we get more info?  Is there an ad posted somewhere?  Pictures?
Where is the boat located?
I may be in the market.

*Thanks and Stay Well,*

*Stephen Staum*
*s/v Pinafore (I hope)*

*Needham, MA*



On Sun, Dec 4, 2022 at 10:41 AM Scott McFall <scott at hypnosisconnection.com>
wrote:

> I am selling my 2008 Rhodes 22 if anyone is looking.  I am wanting 17500.
> Not sure if we do that in this feed or not
>
> > On Dec 4, 2022, at 10:38 AM, rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org wrote:
> >
> > Send Rhodes22-list mailing list submissions to
> >       rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >       http://rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >       rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> >       rhodes22-list-owner at rhodes22.org
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Rhodes22-list digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >   1. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (jpd9668)
> >   2. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (jpd9668)
> >   3. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (jpd9668)
> >   4. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Chris on LBI)
> >   5. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (jpd9668 at gmail.com)
> >   6. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (ROGER PIHLAJA)
> >   7. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Chris on LBI)
> >   8. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Chris on LBI)
> >   9. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (jpd9668)
> >  10. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Chris on LBI)
> >  11. Removing Gas from Fuel Line (Lee Kuhn)
> >  12. Re: Removing Gas from Fuel Line (Peter Nyberg)
> >  13. Re: Removing Gas from Fuel Line (ROGER PIHLAJA)
> >  14. Re: Removing Gas from Fuel Line (cjlowe at sssnet.com)
> >  15. Re: Removing Gas from Fuel Line (Lee Kuhn)
> >  16. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Chris on LBI)
> >  17. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Mary Lou Troy)
> >  18. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Todd Tavares)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2022 09:03:58 -0500
> > From: jpd9668 <jpd9668 at gmail.com>
> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> > Message-ID: <63821cdb.020a0220.9bd25.399c at mx.google.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > I don't know what definition of curve is, but there is none unless it's
> in the plane of the surface which is probably the result of the layup of
> the fibreglass.Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone
> > -------- Original message --------From: ROGER PIHLAJA <
> roger_pihlaja at msn.com> Date: 11/25/22  5:48 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: The
> Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re:
> [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 Bob,I agree with Peter.? If
> there are any differences between the two rudders, they are not readily
> apparent in the photos.? Is there any measurable difference in parameters
> like maximum thickness, chord length from the leading edge to point of
> maximum thickness, etc?? Is there any asymetery in the curvature of the
> hydrofoil on each side? Both rudders appear to be straight.? What do you
> mean by ?curved??Roger PihlajaS/V Dynamic EquilibriumSent from my iPhone>
> On Nov 25, 2022, at 5:26 PM, Peter Nyberg <peter at sunnybeeches.com>
> wrote:> > ?Bob,> > You seem happy with your new rudder, and so I'm happy
> for you as well, but those two rudders look pretty much the same to me.> >
> --Peter> >> On 2022-11-25, at 17:09:29 EST, C. Robert Lester wrote:>> >>
> I'm the
> >  new owner of a rudder off an '82 R22.>> Cannot wait to sail / race next
> sailing season.>> Took some pics of my '84 Rudder (curved, black/red) and
> '82 Rudder (white) side >> by side. >> The boats are only 2 years apart but
> the rudder heads as well as the rudders are >> not similar at all. >> I was
> going to buy the '82 stern rail as well but that is even a different mount
> >> and size from my '84. >> Comments, questions?>> >> Thanks all,>> Bob>>
> '84 ORION>> >> >> >> >> <a >> href="
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7C%7Cd09861f000784a7cb42808dacf340f30%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638050119754738534%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=2%2FlYlSVnEpTnaNqcJ6KcohYH5Mp6bJicXQXi5es2bCg%3D&amp;reserved=0"
> >> target="_blank">Rudder 1a.jpg</a> >> >> <a
> >>> href="
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0001.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7C%7Cd09861f000784a7cb42808dacf340f30%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638050119754738534%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=jb%2FqyXGnRhbl%2B96mT3YAC7z6k%2FGWx16Nu09%2Bv%2BBz3pU%3D&amp;reserved=0"
> >> target="_blank">Rudder 2a.jpg</a> >> >> <a >> href="
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0002.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7C%7Cd09861f000784a7cb42808dacf340f30%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638050119754738534%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=1gLAUSJD%2FLJHorQ5gSy79T%2B9EPYD3M5%2Bf6hkidjNvnY%3D&a
> > mp;reserved=0" >> target="_blank">Rudder 3a.jpg</a> >> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2022 09:10:09 -0500
> > From: jpd9668 <jpd9668 at gmail.com>
> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> > Message-ID: <63821e4f.020a0220.9bd25.39b5 at mx.google.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Well, that's not good. Its bent! Don't know what would cause that, but I
> would think that it will affect performance through increased drag. Roger
> would know better than I.?Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G
> smartphone
> > -------- Original message --------From: "C. Robert Lester" <
> C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu> Date: 11/25/22  7:17 PM  (GMT-05:00) To:
> The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re:
> [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 Thanks Peter.Forgive me for
> not being able to capture the differences in shape with the first pics.Here
> is the original pic that I posted. (Yes, that is snow on the ground when I
> pulled her at end of season.).Note:Tiller handle was placed,
> centerline.Rudder head at top you can see bolts & nuts both sides.Rudder is
> twisted to port, but curved to Starboard.I hope this is helpful.Not the
> pics yesterday show the "patches" of repair that were exposed by pressure
> washing off the red and black paint this summer.Bob'84 Orion-----Original
> Message-----From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On
> Behalf Of Peter NybergSent: Friday, November 25, 2022 5:26 PMTo:
> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.orgSubject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84
> >  Rhodes 22Bob,You seem happy with your new rudder, and so I'm happy for
> you as well, but those two rudders look pretty much the same to me.--Peter>
> On 2022-11-25, at 17:09:29 EST, C. Robert Lester wrote:>> I'm the new owner
> of a rudder off an '82 R22.> Cannot wait to sail / race next sailing
> season.> Took some pics of my '84 Rudder (curved, black/red) and '82 Rudder
> > (white) side by side.> The boats are only 2 years apart but the rudder
> heads as well as the > rudders are not similar at all.> I was going to buy
> the '82 stern rail as well but that is even a > different mount and size
> from my '84.> Comments, questions?> > Thanks all,> Bob> '84 ORION> > > > >
> <a> href="
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C91e9c5d0f0f848ba822108dacf340ef6%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050119769164077%7CUnk
> >
> nown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=jAH1SgjXpqNVYA9DFo%2BOaW51Yru7cRlFl1y%2Fk5WFwDs%3D&amp;reserved=0"
> > target="_blank">Rudder 1a.jpg</a>> > <a> href="
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0001.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C91e9c5d0f0f848ba822108dacf340ef6%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050119769164077%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=bhZbS3G14v5gWsMzgfXiKpbleK6dYLGM5Kfquowb1Kg%3D&amp;reserved=0"
> > target="_blank">Rudder 2a.jpg</a>> > <a> href="
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0002.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C9
> >
> 1e9c5d0f0f848ba822108dacf340ef6%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050119769164077%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=vjTwF84WbZig1mFjUzfjKx6C0y9II68CqjER8ceXTfU%3D&amp;reserved=0"
> > target="_blank">Rudder 3a.jpg</a>> -------------- next part
> --------------A non-text attachment was scrubbed...Name: Rudder 4a.jpgType:
> image/jpegSize: 413162 bytesDesc: Rudder 4a.jpgURL: <
> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221126/a02587b5/attachment.jpg
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2022 09:13:30 -0500
> > From: jpd9668 <jpd9668 at gmail.com>
> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> > Message-ID: <63821f0f.020a0220.9bd25.39be at mx.google.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > ?I don't think there's any difference between 82 and 84 or any other
> year rudders. Don't stigmatize '84 rudders!Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S22
> 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone
> > -------- Original message --------From: "C. Robert Lester" <
> C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu> Date: 11/25/22  9:31 PM  (GMT-05:00) To:
> The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re:
> [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 Thanks Roger.Sailing the last
> 10 yrs of ORION has been favored port tack, with a Catalina 22 rudder
> tiller.It will be nice next season to see how this '82 rudder tacks?Bob'84
> ORION-----Original Message-----From: Rhodes22-list <
> rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of ROGER PIHLAJASent:
> Friday, November 25, 2022 8:33 PMTo: The Rhodes 22 Email List <
> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder |
> 84 Rhodes 22Hi Bob,OK, now I see what you mean.? Is that much misalignment
> noticeable under sail??? Is the tiller position different to go straight
> ahead on port tack vs starboard tack?Anyway, I don?t think there is any way
> to fix that rudder blade.? So, you did the right thing to replace it.Roger
> PihlajaS/V Dynami
> > c EquilibriumSent from my iPhone> On Nov 25, 2022, at 7:17 PM, C. Robert
> Lester <C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu> wrote:> > ?Thanks Peter.> Forgive
> me for not being able to capture the differences in shape with the first
> pics.> Here is the original pic that I posted. (Yes, that is snow on the
> ground when I pulled her at end of season.).> Note:> Tiller handle was
> placed, centerline.> Rudder head at top you can see bolts & nuts both
> sides.> Rudder is twisted to port, but curved to Starboard.> I hope this is
> helpful.> Not the pics yesterday show the "patches" of repair that were
> exposed by pressure washing off the red and black paint this summer.> Bob>
> '84 Orion> > > -----Original Message-----> From: Rhodes22-list <
> rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of > Peter Nyberg> Sent:
> Friday, November 25, 2022 5:26 PM> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Bob,> > You
> seem happy with your new rudder, and so I'm happy for you
> > as well, but those two rudders look pretty much the same to me.> >
> --Peter> >> On 2022-11-25, at 17:09:29 EST, C. Robert Lester wrote:>> >>
> I'm the new owner of a rudder off an '82 R22.>> Cannot wait to sail / race
> next sailing season.>> Took some pics of my '84 Rudder (curved, black/red)
> and '82 Rudder>> (white) side by side.>> The boats are only 2 years apart
> but the rudder heads as well as the >> rudders are not similar at all.>> I
> was going to buy the '82 stern rail as well but that is even a >> different
> mount and size from my '84.>> Comments, questions?>> >> Thanks all,>> Bob>>
> '84 ORION>> >> >> >> >> <a>> href="
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C1dde6b93ce3d4e739c2d08dacf4e2bfa%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050231897795227%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2
> >
> luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=5%2FvGDzW4lyDlY8bxd8C0SnVIagsqenG%2FNl74DWRsU24%3D&amp;reserved=0"
> >> target="_blank">Rudder 1a.jpg</a>>> >> <a>> href="
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0001.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C1dde6b93ce3d4e739c2d08dacf4e2bfa%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050231897795227%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=6%2FVPk0Yz0raPaBiMYAaNVBCs6BuuLQqJ4yaULWKtmH8%3D&amp;reserved=0"
> >> target="_blank">Rudder 2a.jpg</a>>> >> <a>> href="
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0002.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C1dde6b93ce3d4e739c2d08dacf4e2bfa%7C995b0
> >
> 93648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050231897795227%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=falg7p83u8J%2FJM8rsVG3WYzN2JmNaPn06t2a0pbB0bA%3D&amp;reserved=0"
> >> target="_blank">Rudder 3a.jpg</a>>> > > -------------- next part
> -------------- A non-text attachment was > scrubbed...> Name: Rudder
> 4a.jpg> Type: image/jpeg> Size: 413162 bytes> Desc: Rudder 4a.jpg> URL: <
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221126%2Fa02587b5%2Fattachment.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C1dde6b93ce3d4e739c2d08dacf4e2bfa%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050231897795227%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=%2FfotS3oaMoPJ49l2BJvvTqJIHg7PKELw63aG5D1ORAY%3D&amp;reserved=0
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 11:37:24 -0500
> > From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu>
> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> > Message-ID: <c5674348-daad-0878-9b7e-814b9df175c8 at vt.edu>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
> >
> > It is so interesting that to me that this topic just came up. I've been
> > thinking about posting some late-season observations about my Rhodes
> > that are closely related to this thread.
> >
> > After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be excessive lee
> > helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the forward edge
> > of my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white rudder shown in
> > Bob's photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to rectify this, I
> > changed how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than pull it tight,
> > I eased off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the leading
> > edge of the rudder close to vertical.
> >
> > I only had the opportunity to try this twice before we had to take the
> > boat out for the season, but in both outings, I was able to much more
> > easily balance the helm and was able to tack very close to 90 degrees
> > (something that eluded me on this boat since we purchased her). Attached
> > is a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while
> > sailing as close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were
> > about 95 degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so
> > I consider this a great improvement.
> >
> > Also, prior to trying this adjustment with the rudder, we frequently had
> > difficulty bringing the bow through the wind; we had to be very precise
> > with our timing of releasing sheets. I did not have the opportunity to
> > test the change in high wind conditions, but she seemed to be much more
> > responsive to a turn to windward.
> >
> > I'll continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a
> > way to be sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
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> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 13:13:33 -0500
> > From: <jpd9668 at gmail.com>
> > To: "'The Rhodes 22 Email List'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> > Message-ID: <000201d9041e$513b6fc0$f3b24f40$@gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain;     charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Chris,
> > Yours is much different than my experience. Until Stan instructed me how
> to use the downhaul on the rudder, I had severe lee helm. Once I pulled the
> downhaul tight my helm has been balanced ever since. If you're getting 95
> deg. or less on point, that's pretty good. Do you have roller furling jib?
> >
> > Joe Dempsey
> > S/V Respite
> > Deltaville, VA
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of
> Chris on LBI
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2022 11:37 AM
> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> >
> > It is so interesting that to me that this topic just came up. I've been
> thinking about posting some late-season observations about my Rhodes that
> are closely related to this thread.
> >
> > After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be excessive lee
> helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the forward edge of
> my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white rudder shown in Bob's
> photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to rectify this, I changed
> how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than pull it tight, I eased
> off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the leading edge of the
> rudder close to vertical.
> >
> > I only had the opportunity to try this twice before we had to take the
> boat out for the season, but in both outings, I was able to much more
> easily balance the helm and was able to tack very close to 90 degrees
> (something that eluded me on this boat since we purchased her). Attached is
> a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while sailing as
> close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were about 95
> degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so I consider
> this a great improvement.
> >
> > Also, prior to trying this adjustment with the rudder, we frequently had
> difficulty bringing the bow through the wind; we had to be very precise
> with our timing of releasing sheets. I did not have the opportunity to test
> the change in high wind conditions, but she seemed to be much more
> responsive to a turn to windward.
> >
> > I'll continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a
> way to be sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
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> > URL: <
> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221129/2624e7f9/attachment.png
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 6
> > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 19:55:21 +0000
> > From: ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com>
> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> > Message-ID:
> >       <
> CY8PR10MB6683D4528620D2943A4CEFFF80129 at CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com
> >
> >
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Chris,
> >
> > After reading your post, I went out and looked my boat?s rudder.  On my
> R-22, the rudder blade pivots until it comes up against the underside of
> the rudder head.  On my boat, the leading edge of the rudder blade makes a
> straight line with the leading edge of the rudder head when the rudder
> blade is all the way down against this positive mechanical stop.  However,
> there are several manufacturing tolerances that can affect this geometry.
> The exact size and shape of the rudder head and rudder blade relative to
> the location of the rudder blade?s pivot are critical.  If your rudder
> blade pivots too far forward, probably the easiest way to fix it will be to
> install a shim in between the bottom of the rudder head and the top of the
> rudder blade.
> >
> > I know from experience; that, pivoting the rudder blade up tends to
> increase weather helm.  But, in my experience, the helm is not that
> sensitive to this adjustment, especially when the rudder blade is nearly
> fully down.  How much did you have to move the rudder blade in order to get
> rid of your lee helm?
> >
> > By the way, what was your angle of heel when you were doing your tacking
> angle experiment?  As you may know, the wetted surface area of the R-22
> hull becomes very asymmetric as the hull heels over.  The asymmetry tends
> to produce weather helm, becoming more pronounced as the angle of heel
> increases.  You may find your boat has lee helm when sailed flat,
> transitioning to neutral helm, and then weather helm as you heel over.
> Before you modify your rudder, be certain you are not introducing heavy
> weather helm when the boat?s rail is in the water.
> >
> > Roger Pihlaja
> > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >> On Nov 29, 2022, at 1:13 PM, jpd9668 at gmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >> ?Chris,
> >> Yours is much different than my experience. Until Stan instructed me
> how to use the downhaul on the rudder, I had severe lee helm. Once I pulled
> the downhaul tight my helm has been balanced ever since. If you're getting
> 95 deg. or less on point, that's pretty good. Do you have roller furling
> jib?
> >>
> >> Joe Dempsey
> >> S/V Respite
> >> Deltaville, VA
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of
> Chris on LBI
> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2022 11:37 AM
> >> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> >>
> >> It is so interesting that to me that this topic just came up. I've been
> thinking about posting some late-season observations about my Rhodes that
> are closely related to this thread.
> >>
> >> After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be excessive
> lee helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the forward
> edge of my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white rudder shown
> in Bob's photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to rectify this, I
> changed how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than pull it tight, I
> eased off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the leading edge of
> the rudder close to vertical.
> >>
> >> I only had the opportunity to try this twice before we had to take the
> boat out for the season, but in both outings, I was able to much more
> easily balance the helm and was able to tack very close to 90 degrees
> (something that eluded me on this boat since we purchased her). Attached is
> a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while sailing as
> close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were about 95
> degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so I consider
> this a great improvement.
> >>
> >> Also, prior to trying this adjustment with the rudder, we frequently
> had difficulty bringing the bow through the wind; we had to be very precise
> with our timing of releasing sheets. I did not have the opportunity to test
> the change in high wind conditions, but she seemed to be much more
> responsive to a turn to windward.
> >>
> >> I'll continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a
> way to be sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.
> >>
> >> Chris
> >>
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> >> Name: IMG_4528.PNG
> >> Type: image/png
> >> Size: 460057 bytes
> >> Desc: not available
> >> URL: <
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221129%2F2624e7f9%2Fattachment.png&amp;data=05%7C01%7C%7C14e50c603e664400598208dad235763f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638053424313125675%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=sddmh3HKnm78KH1y%2BWXGh63%2Fqy8FvY4X1TDKohWJ1Ng%3D&amp;reserved=0
> >
> >>
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 7
> > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 23:25:59 -0500
> > From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu>
> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> > Message-ID: <b482d3ee-6fbb-a590-0f60-6b2eccf7982f at vt.edu>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> >
> > Joe,
> > I do have a roller furling jib. On this particular day, when I was
> > experimenting, I had my 130 genoa unfurled to the upper shrouds.
> > Chris
> >
> > On 11/29/2022 1:13 PM, jpd9668 at gmail.com wrote:
> >> Chris,
> >> Yours is much different than my experience. Until Stan instructed me
> how to use the downhaul on the rudder, I had severe lee helm. Once I pulled
> the downhaul tight my helm has been balanced ever since. If you're getting
> 95 deg. or less on point, that's pretty good. Do you have roller furling
> jib?
> >>
> >> Joe Dempsey
> >> S/V Respite
> >> Deltaville, VA
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of
> Chris on LBI
> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2022 11:37 AM
> >> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> >>
> >> It is so interesting that to me that this topic just came up. I've been
> thinking about posting some late-season observations about my Rhodes that
> are closely related to this thread.
> >>
> >> After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be excessive
> lee helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the forward
> edge of my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white rudder shown
> in Bob's photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to rectify this, I
> changed how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than pull it tight, I
> eased off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the leading edge of
> the rudder close to vertical.
> >>
> >> I only had the opportunity to try this twice before we had to take the
> boat out for the season, but in both outings, I was able to much more
> easily balance the helm and was able to tack very close to 90 degrees
> (something that eluded me on this boat since we purchased her). Attached is
> a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while sailing as
> close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were about 95
> degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so I consider
> this a great improvement.
> >>
> >> Also, prior to trying this adjustment with the rudder, we frequently
> had difficulty bringing the bow through the wind; we had to be very precise
> with our timing of releasing sheets. I did not have the opportunity to test
> the change in high wind conditions, but she seemed to be much more
> responsive to a turn to windward.
> >>
> >> I'll continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a
> way to be sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.
> >>
> >> Chris
> >>
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> >> Name: IMG_4528.PNG
> >> Type: image/png
> >> Size: 460057 bytes
> >> Desc: not available
> >> URL: <
> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221129/2624e7f9/attachment.png
> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 8
> > Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 00:04:49 -0500
> > From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu>
> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> > Message-ID: <f0d18634-48d9-7382-498d-3774198dc6de at vt.edu>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> >
> > Roger,
> >
> > I don't have a sense for how much I moved the rudder blade on my two
> > trials. I was just hoping that some change would be noticeable. I'll pay
> > more attention next season, and, next time I have a chance, I'll try to
> > measure the difference between the "full down haul" position and the
> > vertical position. I'll also look at the mechanical stop to get a sense
> > for how a shim might be implemented. But for now, I think just using the
> > tension between the down-haul and the up-haul will be best for
> > experimenting so that I can convince myself that helm behavior really
> > does change.
> >
> > On the two days that I experimented, I was intentionally keeping the
> > heel angle minimal, attempting to keep it flat. The winds were around 10
> > kts. I had the 130 genoa unfurled to the upper shrouds. So the luff of
> > the headsail was not shaped well due to the sail furled on the headstay.
> >
> > On many days, we find ourselves sailing in 18 to 20 kts. We tend to be
> > timid about heeling too much and generally either fall off to a more
> > comfortable (flatter) reach or reduce sail. I've never really
> > experienced the transition to weather helm due to heeling - even when we
> > are heeled past our comfort angle. We probably head up before heeling
> > sufficiently to cause the hull shape to induce weather helm.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> > On 11/29/2022 2:55 PM, ROGER PIHLAJA wrote:
> >> Chris,
> >>
> >> After reading your post, I went out and looked my boat?s rudder.  On my
> R-22, the rudder blade pivots until it comes up against the underside of
> the rudder head.  On my boat, the leading edge of the rudder blade makes a
> straight line with the leading edge of the rudder head when the rudder
> blade is all the way down against this positive mechanical stop.  However,
> there are several manufacturing tolerances that can affect this geometry.
> The exact size and shape of the rudder head and rudder blade relative to
> the location of the rudder blade?s pivot are critical.  If your rudder
> blade pivots too far forward, probably the easiest way to fix it will be to
> install a shim in between the bottom of the rudder head and the top of the
> rudder blade.
> >>
> >> I know from experience; that, pivoting the rudder blade up tends to
> increase weather helm.  But, in my experience, the helm is not that
> sensitive to this adjustment, especially when the rudder blade is nearly
> fully down.  How much did you have to move the rudder blade in order to get
> rid of your lee helm?
> >>
> >> By the way, what was your angle of heel when you were doing your
> tacking angle experiment?  As you may know, the wetted surface area of the
> R-22 hull becomes very asymmetric as the hull heels over.  The asymmetry
> tends to produce weather helm, becoming more pronounced as the angle of
> heel increases.  You may find your boat has lee helm when sailed flat,
> transitioning to neutral helm, and then weather helm as you heel over.
> Before you modify your rudder, be certain you are not introducing heavy
> weather helm when the boat?s rail is in the water.
> >>
> >> Roger Pihlaja
> >> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>> On Nov 29, 2022, at 1:13 PM, jpd9668 at gmail.com wrote:
> >>>
> >>> ?Chris,
> >>> Yours is much different than my experience. Until Stan instructed me
> how to use the downhaul on the rudder, I had severe lee helm. Once I pulled
> the downhaul tight my helm has been balanced ever since. If you're getting
> 95 deg. or less on point, that's pretty good. Do you have roller furling
> jib?
> >>>
> >>> Joe Dempsey
> >>> S/V Respite
> >>> Deltaville, VA
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of
> Chris on LBI
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2022 11:37 AM
> >>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> >>>
> >>> It is so interesting that to me that this topic just came up. I've
> been thinking about posting some late-season observations about my Rhodes
> that are closely related to this thread.
> >>>
> >>> After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be excessive
> lee helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the forward
> edge of my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white rudder shown
> in Bob's photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to rectify this, I
> changed how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than pull it tight, I
> eased off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the leading edge of
> the rudder close to vertical.
> >>>
> >>> I only had the opportunity to try this twice before we had to take the
> boat out for the season, but in both outings, I was able to much more
> easily balance the helm and was able to tack very close to 90 degrees
> (something that eluded me on this boat since we purchased her). Attached is
> a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while sailing as
> close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were about 95
> degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so I consider
> this a great improvement.
> >>>
> >>> Also, prior to trying this adjustment with the rudder, we frequently
> had difficulty bringing the bow through the wind; we had to be very precise
> with our timing of releasing sheets. I did not have the opportunity to test
> the change in high wind conditions, but she seemed to be much more
> responsive to a turn to windward.
> >>>
> >>> I'll continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a
> way to be sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.
> >>>
> >>> Chris
> >>>
> >>> -------------- next part --------------
> >>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> >>> Name: IMG_4528.PNG
> >>> Type: image/png
> >>> Size: 460057 bytes
> >>> Desc: not available
> >>> URL: <
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221129%2F2624e7f9%2Fattachment.png&amp;data=05%7C01%7C%7C14e50c603e664400598208dad235763f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638053424313125675%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=sddmh3HKnm78KH1y%2BWXGh63%2Fqy8FvY4X1TDKohWJ1Ng%3D&amp;reserved=0
> >
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 9
> > Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 08:13:30 -0500
> > From: jpd9668 <jpd9668 at gmail.com>
> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> > Message-ID: <63875705.020a0220.7c723.105e at mx.google.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Chris,I was very un-clear. The 95 degrees i was referring to was from
> 45+ degrees on either side of the wind. Was that your point of reference as
> well? I can get 45 degrees on Port tack? but have trouble getting that
> close on on starboard tack.Joe DempseySent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G,
> an AT&T 5G smartphone
> > -------- Original message --------From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu>
> Date: 11/29/22  11:26 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <
> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder |
> 84 Rhodes 22 Joe,I do have a roller furling jib. On this particular day,
> when I was experimenting, I had my 130 genoa unfurled to the upper
> shrouds.ChrisOn 11/29/2022 1:13 PM, jpd9668 at gmail.com wrote:> Chris,>
> Yours is much different than my experience. Until Stan instructed me how to
> use the downhaul on the rudder, I had severe lee helm. Once I pulled the
> downhaul tight my helm has been balanced ever since. If you're getting 95
> deg. or less on point, that's pretty good. Do you have roller furling
> jib?>> Joe Dempsey> S/V Respite> Deltaville, VA>> -----Original
> Message-----> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On
> Behalf Of Chris on LBI> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2022 11:37 AM> To: The
> Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> Subject: Re:
> > [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22>> It is so interesting that
> to me that this topic just came up. I've been thinking about posting some
> late-season observations about my Rhodes that are closely related to this
> thread.>> After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be
> excessive lee helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the
> forward edge of my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white
> rudder shown in Bob's photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to
> rectify this, I changed how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than
> pull it tight, I eased off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the
> leading edge of the rudder close to vertical.>> I only had the opportunity
> to try this twice before we had to take the boat out for the season, but in
> both outings, I was able to much more easily balance the helm and was able
> to tack very close to 90 degrees (something that eluded me on this boat
> since we purchased her). Attached
> > is a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while
> sailing as close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were
> about 95 degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so I
> consider this a great improvement.>> Also, prior to trying this adjustment
> with the rudder, we frequently had difficulty bringing the bow through the
> wind; we had to be very precise with our timing of releasing sheets. I did
> not have the opportunity to test the change in high wind conditions, but
> she seemed to be much more responsive to a turn to windward.>> I'll
> continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a way to be
> sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.>> Chris>>
> -------------- next part --------------> A non-text attachment was
> scrubbed...> Name: IMG_4528.PNG> Type: image/png> Size: 460057 bytes> Desc:
> not available> URL: <
> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221129/2624e7f9/attachment.png
> >>
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 10
> > Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 09:51:19 -0500
> > From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu>
> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> > Message-ID: <6d06f513-d256-ca5d-0877-3e0065372fc7 at vt.edu>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> >
> > Joe,
> >
> > I'm not sure which tack I do better on. I'll have to try to check next
> > season. I'm afraid that it might be difficult for me to know for sure
> > since I am always dealing with significant tidal currents that make
> > precise measurements like that nearly impossible.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 11
> > Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 17:11:30 -0500
> > From: Lee Kuhn <lvjkuhn at gmail.com>
> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Removing Gas from Fuel Line
> > Message-ID:
> >       <
> CAPgvAEmLX7eK5u+y+CKO1chXfn-2HMT1WPSNuo40riptahb_fQ at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > What's the easiest way to remove gas from the fuel hose?  The hose has a
> > ball spring valve at both ends.  I was told not to push the valve open
> with
> > some type of tool because I could damage the valve.
> >
> > I disconnected the tank and put it in the lazarette and then reran the
> hose
> > into the lazarette and reconnected the hose to the tank which opened the
> > valve on that end.  I then disconnected the hose from the outboard and
> > held it up as high as I could (gravity) and squeezed the primer.  The
> > primer pumps gas in the opposite direction than I wanted but if you
> squeeze
> > it hard and slow the gas will eventually drain into the tank.
> >
> > Seems like there must be a better way.  The gas was ethanol-free with a
> > stabilizer.  Should I just leave it in the hose and hope I won't have any
> > problems starting the outboard in the Spring?
> >
> > Lee
> > 1999 Rhodes22  AT EASE
> > Claytor Lake, VA
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 12
> > Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 14:30:19 -0800
> > From: Peter Nyberg <peter at sunnybeeches.com>
> > To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Removing Gas from Fuel Line
> > Message-ID: <E1p0Vat-0063j5-BP at s152.servername.online>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> >
> > Lee,
> >
> > It never occurred to me to worry about this.  I do empty my boat fuel
> tanks into a vehicle in the fall, and I do use a stabilizer for all my boat
> fuel.  But, I don't have a convenient source for ethanol-free fuel, so I
> use the universal 90/10 mix.
> >
> > Long story short, I've never had a problem getting my outboard running
> in the spring.
> >
> > Peter Nyberg
> > Coventry, CT
> > s/v Silverheels (1988/2016)
> >
> >> On 2022-11-30, at 17:11:30 EST, Lee Kuhn wrote:
> >>
> >> What's the easiest way to remove gas from the fuel hose?  The hose has
> a ball
> >> spring valve at both ends.  I was told not to push the valve open with
> some type
> >> of tool because I could damage the valve.
> >>
> >> I disconnected the tank and put it in the lazarette and then reran the
> hose into
> >> the lazarette and reconnected the hose to the tank which opened the
> valve on
> >> that end.  I then disconnected the hose from the outboard and held it
> up as high
> >> as I could (gravity) and squeezed the primer.  The primer pumps gas in
> the
> >> opposite direction than I wanted but if you squeeze it hard and slow
> the gas
> >> will eventually drain into the tank.
> >>
> >> Seems like there must be a better way.  The gas was ethanol-free with a
> >> stabilizer.  Should I just leave it in the hose and hope I won't have
> any
> >> problems starting the outboard in the Spring?
> >>
> >> Lee
> >> 1999 Rhodes22  AT EASE
> >> Claytor Lake, VA
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 13
> > Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 22:34:37 +0000
> > From: ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com>
> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Removing Gas from Fuel Line
> > Message-ID:
> >       <
> CY8PR10MB668383056F98D5A9E6BA561880159 at CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com
> >
> >
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Lee,
> >
> > As long as you push on the ball check valve with something soft, like a
> piece of plastic, you are unlikely to damage it.  I always drain the gas
> line at the end of the season.
> >
> > Roger Pihlaja
> > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Nov 30, 2022, at 5:11 PM, Lee Kuhn <lvjkuhn at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> ?What's the easiest way to remove gas from the fuel hose?  The hose has
> a
> >> ball spring valve at both ends.  I was told not to push the valve open
> with
> >> some type of tool because I could damage the valve.
> >>
> >> I disconnected the tank and put it in the lazarette and then reran the
> hose
> >> into the lazarette and reconnected the hose to the tank which opened the
> >> valve on that end.  I then disconnected the hose from the outboard and
> >> held it up as high as I could (gravity) and squeezed the primer.  The
> >> primer pumps gas in the opposite direction than I wanted but if you
> squeeze
> >> it hard and slow the gas will eventually drain into the tank.
> >>
> >> Seems like there must be a better way.  The gas was ethanol-free with a
> >> stabilizer.  Should I just leave it in the hose and hope I won't have
> any
> >> problems starting the outboard in the Spring?
> >>
> >> Lee
> >> 1999 Rhodes22  AT EASE
> >> Claytor Lake, VA
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 14
> > Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 21:56:55 -0500 (EST)
> > From: cjlowe at sssnet.com
> > To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Removing Gas from Fuel Line
> > Message-ID:
> >       <55562.24.140.30.102.1669863415.squirrel at quickpop.sssnet.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
> >
> >> Lee,
> >
> >  I bought a replacement for my motor connection, and keep on board in
> > spare parts. End of season, I put the gas tank in the bed of the truck ,
> > put the spare connector on the end of the hose and stick it in a five
> > gallon gas can, pump the bulb a couple times and drink a beer.
> >
> >
> > Jerry Lowe SV Country Rhodes '86
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Lee,
> >>
> >> As long as you push on the ball check valve with something soft, like a
> >> piece of plastic, you are unlikely to damage it.  I always drain the gas
> >> line at the end of the season.
> >>
> >> Roger Pihlaja
> >> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>> On Nov 30, 2022, at 5:11 PM, Lee Kuhn <lvjkuhn at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> ???What's the easiest way to remove gas from the fuel hose?  The hose
> >>> has a
> >>> ball spring valve at both ends.  I was told not to push the valve open
> >>> with
> >>> some type of tool because I could damage the valve.
> >>>
> >>> I disconnected the tank and put it in the lazarette and then reran the
> >>> hose
> >>> into the lazarette and reconnected the hose to the tank which opened
> >>> the
> >>> valve on that end.  I then disconnected the hose from the outboard and
> >>> held it up as high as I could (gravity) and squeezed the primer.  The
> >>> primer pumps gas in the opposite direction than I wanted but if you
> >>> squeeze
> >>> it hard and slow the gas will eventually drain into the tank.
> >>>
> >>> Seems like there must be a better way.  The gas was ethanol-free with a
> >>> stabilizer.  Should I just leave it in the hose and hope I won't have
> >>> any
> >>> problems starting the outboard in the Spring?
> >>>
> >>> Lee
> >>> 1999 Rhodes22  AT EASE
> >>> Claytor Lake, VA
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 15
> > Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2022 11:20:16 -0500
> > From: Lee Kuhn <lvjkuhn at gmail.com>
> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Removing Gas from Fuel Line
> > Message-ID:
> >       <CAPgvAEmEw1T0F=j6vm7_B41=
> v2qw5quKvjERcOc08r2D+zUFrA at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > I like Roger's idea to release the ball-spring with something that won't
> > cause damage.  If I place the tank on the cockpit seat I and pull the
> hose
> > down tight I should be able to get most of the gas out, and on me.
> >
> > I like Peter's idea to do nothing.  I'm really good at that.  I'll
> probably
> > use this method along with Jerry's idea to drink a beer.
> >
> > Thanks guys!
> >
> > Lee
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 10:02 PM <cjlowe at sssnet.com> wrote:
> >
> >>> Lee,
> >>
> >>  I bought a replacement for my motor connection, and keep on board in
> >> spare parts. End of season, I put the gas tank in the bed of the truck ,
> >> put the spare connector on the end of the hose and stick it in a five
> >> gallon gas can, pump the bulb a couple times and drink a beer.
> >>
> >>
> >> Jerry Lowe SV Country Rhodes '86
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Lee,
> >>>
> >>> As long as you push on the ball check valve with something soft, like a
> >>> piece of plastic, you are unlikely to damage it.  I always drain the
> gas
> >>> line at the end of the season.
> >>>
> >>> Roger Pihlaja
> >>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>>> On Nov 30, 2022, at 5:11 PM, Lee Kuhn <lvjkuhn at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> ?What's the easiest way to remove gas from the fuel hose?  The hose
> >>>> has a
> >>>> ball spring valve at both ends.  I was told not to push the valve open
> >>>> with
> >>>> some type of tool because I could damage the valve.
> >>>>
> >>>> I disconnected the tank and put it in the lazarette and then reran the
> >>>> hose
> >>>> into the lazarette and reconnected the hose to the tank which opened
> >>>> the
> >>>> valve on that end.  I then disconnected the hose from the outboard and
> >>>> held it up as high as I could (gravity) and squeezed the primer.  The
> >>>> primer pumps gas in the opposite direction than I wanted but if you
> >>>> squeeze
> >>>> it hard and slow the gas will eventually drain into the tank.
> >>>>
> >>>> Seems like there must be a better way.  The gas was ethanol-free with
> a
> >>>> stabilizer.  Should I just leave it in the hose and hope I won't have
> >>>> any
> >>>> problems starting the outboard in the Spring?
> >>>>
> >>>> Lee
> >>>> 1999 Rhodes22  AT EASE
> >>>> Claytor Lake, VA
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 16
> > Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2022 09:34:31 -0500
> > From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu>
> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> > Message-ID: <9d4c38a9-5e00-a0a0-7528-73c2e3aa8422 at vt.edu>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
> >
> > I was able to take a look at the rudder yesterday. In hindsight, I can't
> > believe that it took me 5 full seasons of sailing to recognize that this
> > was a potential problem. Attached are three photos. The first gives a
> > sense of how far the rudder swings under the hull when the down-haul is
> > used to pull the rudder against the "stop".? In the second photo I have
> > placed a white piece of plastic vertically to make more obvious how much
> > past vertical the rudder is when it is against the stop. The forward
> > edge of the white plastic is parallel with the forward edge of the
> > rudder head. The third photo shows the "stop" which is the forward side
> > of the rudder head (as Roger stated).
> >
> > As Roger predicted in his previous email, it appears that the mechanical
> > variations of this particular rudder and rudder head allow the rudder to
> > rotate too far forward. As he suggested, I will experiment with a shim
> > to correct this. If this does not work out easily, I will place a mark
> > on the up-haul so that I know how far to deploy it to keep the rudder
> > from over-rotating, and then tension the down-haul against it.
> >
> > Chris
> > -------------- next part --------------
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> >
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> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 17
> > Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2022 10:14:48 -0500
> > From: Mary Lou Troy <mtroy at atlanticbb.net>
> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> > Message-ID: <01193a8d-1d85-3485-05a1-959ac2b949a7 at atlanticbb.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> >
> > I have not been following this discussion closely and I am relying on
> > memory here so take these statements with a grain of salt.
> >
> > When we purchased Fretless (recycled) in 1998 we had a number of
> > discussions with Stan about rigging, helm and the rudder. He was quite
> > clear that the proper position for the rudder underway was pulled
> > forward of vertical so it was somewhat under the hull. Fred and I both
> > remember the boat as being somewhat sluggish and less responsive if the
> > rudder was not pulled far enough forward. Helm was also affected by the
> > position of the rudder.
> >
> > I'll keep an eye out the results of your testing as I suppose it is
> > indeed possible to have it too far forward if the fittings have changed
> > but Stan set up our boat and we always pulled it as far forward as it
> > would go.
> >
> > When doing your tests, make sure all the other variables are the same -
> > for example the boat is very affected, usually positively, by weight in
> > the bow. As our water tank was nearly centerline, we usually had it
> > filled more than half way.
> >
> > All our best,
> > Mary Lou (and Fred)
> > ex Rhodes 22
> > now Rosborough RF-246? Tara
> > Rock Hall, MD
> >
> > On 12/4/2022 9:34 AM, Chris on LBI wrote:
> >> I was able to take a look at the rudder yesterday. In hindsight, I
> >> can't believe that it took me 5 full seasons of sailing to recognize
> >> that this was a potential problem. Attached are three photos. The
> >> first gives a sense of how far the rudder swings under the hull when
> >> the down-haul is used to pull the rudder against the "stop". In the
> >> second photo I have placed a white piece of plastic vertically to make
> >> more obvious how much past vertical the rudder is when it is against
> >> the stop. The forward edge of the white plastic is parallel with the
> >> forward edge of the rudder head. The third photo shows the "stop"
> >> which is the forward side of the rudder head (as Roger stated).
> >>
> >> As Roger predicted in his previous email, it appears that the
> >> mechanical variations of this particular rudder and rudder head allow
> >> the rudder to rotate too far forward. As he suggested, I will
> >> experiment with a shim to correct this. If this does not work out
> >> easily, I will place a mark on the up-haul so that I know how far to
> >> deploy it to keep the rudder from over-rotating, and then tension the
> >> down-haul against it.
> >>
> >> Chris
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
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> >> Size: 77096 bytes
> >> Desc: not available
> >> URL:
> >> <
> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment.jpg
> >
> >> -------------- next part --------------
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> >> URL:
> >> <
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> >
> >> -------------- next part --------------
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> >> URL:
> >> <
> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment-0002.jpg
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 18
> > Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2022 10:38:22 -0500
> > From: Todd Tavares <tavares0947 at gmail.com>
> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> > Message-ID:
> >       <CAB-twMN_dJb0-eHOQC9j3P_2TPx5a=EjrHrOfCMLguGGZLiq=
> A at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Chris,
> > Rather than trying to mess around with making and securing a shim, would
> it
> > be easier to re-fabricate that entire forward vertical blocking between
> the
> > rudderhead faces?
> >
> > Todd T
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 4, 2022, 9:34 AM Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> I was able to take a look at the rudder yesterday. In hindsight, I can't
> >> believe that it took me 5 full seasons of sailing to recognize that this
> >> was a potential problem. Attached are three photos. The first gives a
> >> sense of how far the rudder swings under the hull when the down-haul is
> >> used to pull the rudder against the "stop".  In the second photo I have
> >> placed a white piece of plastic vertically to make more obvious how much
> >> past vertical the rudder is when it is against the stop. The forward
> >> edge of the white plastic is parallel with the forward edge of the
> >> rudder head. The third photo shows the "stop" which is the forward side
> >> of the rudder head (as Roger stated).
> >>
> >> As Roger predicted in his previous email, it appears that the mechanical
> >> variations of this particular rudder and rudder head allow the rudder to
> >> rotate too far forward. As he suggested, I will experiment with a shim
> >> to correct this. If this does not work out easily, I will place a mark
> >> on the up-haul so that I know how far to deploy it to keep the rudder
> >> from over-rotating, and then tension the down-haul against it.
> >>
> >> Chris
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> >> Name: IMG_4808.jpg
> >> Type: image/jpeg
> >> Size: 77096 bytes
> >> Desc: not available
> >> URL: <
> >>
> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment.jpg
> >>>
> >> -------------- next part --------------
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> >> URL: <
> >>
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> >>>
> >> -------------- next part --------------
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> >> URL: <
> >>
> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment-0002.jpg
> >>>
> >>
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Subject: Digest Footer
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rhodes22-list mailing list
> > Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> > http://rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > End of Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 4477, Issue 1
> > **********************************************
>
>

From mweisner at ebsmed.com  Sun Dec  4 12:20:38 2022
From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner)
Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2022 12:20:38 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 4477, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <CAOo_FjeRzGYzBbK7LVwspyy2h6LHc6k8ubhmq-OVaYwEQrCpfA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.1850.1670174445.2787.rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1965860183639772/permalink/4020732424819194/?mibextid=Nif5ozMikes/v Wind Lass ('91)Nissequogue River, NY
-------- Original message --------From: Stephen Staum <snstaum at gmail.com> Date: 12/4/22  12:07 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 4477, Issue 1 Can we get more info?? Is there an ad posted somewhere?? Pictures?Where is the boat located?I may be in the market.*Thanks and Stay Well,**Stephen Staum**s/v Pinafore (I hope)**Needham, MA*On Sun, Dec 4, 2022 at 10:41 AM Scott McFall <scott at hypnosisconnection.com>wrote:> I am selling my 2008 Rhodes 22 if anyone is looking.? I am wanting 17500.> Not sure if we do that in this feed or not>> > On Dec 4, 2022, at 10:38 AM, rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org wrote:> >> > Send Rhodes22-list mailing list submissions to> >?????? rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> >> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit> >?????? http://rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to> >?????? rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org> >> > You can reach the person managing the list at> >?????? rhodes22-list-owner at rhodes22.org> >> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific> > than "Re: Contents of Rhodes22-list digest..."> >> >> > Today's Topics:> >> >?? 1. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (jpd9668)> >?? 2. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (jpd9668)> >?? 3. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (jpd9668)> >?? 4. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Chris on LBI)> >?? 5. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (jpd9668 at gmail.com)> >?? 6. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (ROGER PIHLAJA)> >?? 7. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Chris on LBI)> >?? 8. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Chris on LBI)> >?? 9. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (jpd9668)> >? 10. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Chris on LBI)> >? 11. Removing Gas from Fuel Line (Lee Kuhn)> >? 12. Re: Removing Gas from Fuel Line (Peter Nyberg)> >? 13. Re: Removing Gas from Fuel Line (ROGER PIHLAJA)> >? 14. Re: Removing Gas from Fuel Line (cjlowe at sssnet.com)> >? 15. Re: Removing Gas from Fuel Line (Lee Kuhn)> >? 16. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Chris on LBI)> >? 17. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Mary Lou Troy)> >? 18. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Todd Tavares)> >> >> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------> >> > Message: 1> > Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2022 09:03:58 -0500> > From: jpd9668 <jpd9668 at gmail.com>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Message-ID: <63821cdb.020a0220.9bd25.399c at mx.google.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"> >> > I don't know what definition of curve is, but there is none unless it's> in the plane of the surface which is probably the result of the layup of> the fibreglass.Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone> > -------- Original message --------From: ROGER PIHLAJA <> roger_pihlaja at msn.com> Date: 11/25/22? 5:48 PM? (GMT-05:00) To: The> Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re:> [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 Bob,I agree with Peter.? If> there are any differences between the two rudders, they are not readily> apparent in the photos.? Is there any measurable difference in parameters> like maximum thickness, chord length from the leading edge to point of> maximum thickness, etc?? Is there any asymetery in the curvature of the> hydrofoil on each side? Both rudders appear to be straight.? What do you> mean by ?curved??Roger PihlajaS/V Dynamic EquilibriumSent from my iPhone>> On Nov 25, 2022, at 5:26 PM, Peter Nyberg <peter at sunnybeeches.com>> wrote:> > ?Bob,> > You seem happy with your new rudder, and so I'm happy> for you as well, but those two rudders look pretty much the same to me.> >> --Peter> >> On 2022-11-25, at 17:09:29 EST, C. Robert Lester wrote:>> >>> I'm the> >? new owner of a rudder off an '82 R22.>> Cannot wait to sail / race next> sailing season.>> Took some pics of my '84 Rudder (curved, black/red) and> '82 Rudder (white) side >> by side. >> The boats are only 2 years apart but> the rudder heads as well as the rudders are >> not similar at all. >> I was> going to buy the '82 stern rail as well but that is even a different mount> >> and size from my '84. >> Comments, questions?>> >> Thanks all,>> Bob>>> '84 ORION>> >> >> >> >> <a >> href="> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7C%7Cd09861f000784a7cb42808dacf340f30%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638050119754738534%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=2%2FlYlSVnEpTnaNqcJ6KcohYH5Mp6bJicXQXi5es2bCg%3D&amp;reserved=0"> >> target="_blank">Rudder 1a.jpg</a> >> >> <a> >>> href="> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0001.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7C%7Cd09861f000784a7cb42808dacf340f30%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638050119754738534%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=jb%2FqyXGnRhbl%2B96mT3YAC7z6k%2FGWx16Nu09%2Bv%2BBz3pU%3D&amp;reserved=0"> >> target="_blank">Rudder 2a.jpg</a> >> >> <a >> href="> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0002.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7C%7Cd09861f000784a7cb42808dacf340f30%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638050119754738534%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=1gLAUSJD%2FLJHorQ5gSy79T%2B9EPYD3M5%2Bf6hkidjNvnY%3D&a> > mp;reserved=0" >> target="_blank">Rudder 3a.jpg</a> >> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 2> > Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2022 09:10:09 -0500> > From: jpd9668 <jpd9668 at gmail.com>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Message-ID: <63821e4f.020a0220.9bd25.39b5 at mx.google.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"> >> > Well, that's not good. Its bent! Don't know what would cause that, but I> would think that it will affect performance through increased drag. Roger> would know better than I.?Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G> smartphone> > -------- Original message --------From: "C. Robert Lester" <> C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu> Date: 11/25/22? 7:17 PM? (GMT-05:00) To:> The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re:> [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 Thanks Peter.Forgive me for> not being able to capture the differences in shape with the first pics.Here> is the original pic that I posted. (Yes, that is snow on the ground when I> pulled her at end of season.).Note:Tiller handle was placed,> centerline.Rudder head at top you can see bolts & nuts both sides.Rudder is> twisted to port, but curved to Starboard.I hope this is helpful.Not the> pics yesterday show the "patches" of repair that were exposed by pressure> washing off the red and black paint this summer.Bob'84 Orion-----Original> Message-----From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On> Behalf Of Peter NybergSent: Friday, November 25, 2022 5:26 PMTo:> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.orgSubject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84> >? Rhodes 22Bob,You seem happy with your new rudder, and so I'm happy for> you as well, but those two rudders look pretty much the same to me.--Peter>> On 2022-11-25, at 17:09:29 EST, C. Robert Lester wrote:>> I'm the new owner> of a rudder off an '82 R22.> Cannot wait to sail / race next sailing> season.> Took some pics of my '84 Rudder (curved, black/red) and '82 Rudder> > (white) side by side.> The boats are only 2 years apart but the rudder> heads as well as the > rudders are not similar at all.> I was going to buy> the '82 stern rail as well but that is even a > different mount and size> from my '84.> Comments, questions?> > Thanks all,> Bob> '84 ORION> > > > >> <a> href="> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C91e9c5d0f0f848ba822108dacf340ef6%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050119769164077%7CUnk> >> nown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=jAH1SgjXpqNVYA9DFo%2BOaW51Yru7cRlFl1y%2Fk5WFwDs%3D&amp;reserved=0"> > target="_blank">Rudder 1a.jpg</a>> > <a> href="> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0001.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C91e9c5d0f0f848ba822108dacf340ef6%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050119769164077%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=bhZbS3G14v5gWsMzgfXiKpbleK6dYLGM5Kfquowb1Kg%3D&amp;reserved=0"> > target="_blank">Rudder 2a.jpg</a>> > <a> href="> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0002.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C9> >> 1e9c5d0f0f848ba822108dacf340ef6%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050119769164077%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=vjTwF84WbZig1mFjUzfjKx6C0y9II68CqjER8ceXTfU%3D&amp;reserved=0"> > target="_blank">Rudder 3a.jpg</a>> -------------- next part> --------------A non-text attachment was scrubbed...Name: Rudder 4a.jpgType:> image/jpegSize: 413162 bytesDesc: Rudder 4a.jpgURL: <> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221126/a02587b5/attachment.jpg> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 3> > Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2022 09:13:30 -0500> > From: jpd9668 <jpd9668 at gmail.com>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Message-ID: <63821f0f.020a0220.9bd25.39be at mx.google.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"> >> > ?I don't think there's any difference between 82 and 84 or any other> year rudders. Don't stigmatize '84 rudders!Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S22> 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone> > -------- Original message --------From: "C. Robert Lester" <> C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu> Date: 11/25/22? 9:31 PM? (GMT-05:00) To:> The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re:> [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 Thanks Roger.Sailing the last> 10 yrs of ORION has been favored port tack, with a Catalina 22 rudder> tiller.It will be nice next season to see how this '82 rudder tacks?Bob'84> ORION-----Original Message-----From: Rhodes22-list <> rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of ROGER PIHLAJASent:> Friday, November 25, 2022 8:33 PMTo: The Rhodes 22 Email List <> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder |> 84 Rhodes 22Hi Bob,OK, now I see what you mean.? Is that much misalignment> noticeable under sail??? Is the tiller position different to go straight> ahead on port tack vs starboard tack?Anyway, I don?t think there is any way> to fix that rudder blade.? So, you did the right thing to replace it.Roger> PihlajaS/V Dynami> > c EquilibriumSent from my iPhone> On Nov 25, 2022, at 7:17 PM, C. Robert> Lester <C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu> wrote:> > ?Thanks Peter.> Forgive> me for not being able to capture the differences in shape with the first> pics.> Here is the original pic that I posted. (Yes, that is snow on the> ground when I pulled her at end of season.).> Note:> Tiller handle was> placed, centerline.> Rudder head at top you can see bolts & nuts both> sides.> Rudder is twisted to port, but curved to Starboard.> I hope this is> helpful.> Not the pics yesterday show the "patches" of repair that were> exposed by pressure washing off the red and black paint this summer.> Bob>> '84 Orion> > > -----Original Message-----> From: Rhodes22-list <> rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of > Peter Nyberg> Sent:> Friday, November 25, 2022 5:26 PM> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Bob,> > You> seem happy with your new rudder, and so I'm happy for you> > as well, but those two rudders look pretty much the same to me.> >> --Peter> >> On 2022-11-25, at 17:09:29 EST, C. Robert Lester wrote:>> >>> I'm the new owner of a rudder off an '82 R22.>> Cannot wait to sail / race> next sailing season.>> Took some pics of my '84 Rudder (curved, black/red)> and '82 Rudder>> (white) side by side.>> The boats are only 2 years apart> but the rudder heads as well as the >> rudders are not similar at all.>> I> was going to buy the '82 stern rail as well but that is even a >> different> mount and size from my '84.>> Comments, questions?>> >> Thanks all,>> Bob>>> '84 ORION>> >> >> >> >> <a>> href="> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C1dde6b93ce3d4e739c2d08dacf4e2bfa%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050231897795227%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2> >> luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=5%2FvGDzW4lyDlY8bxd8C0SnVIagsqenG%2FNl74DWRsU24%3D&amp;reserved=0"> >> target="_blank">Rudder 1a.jpg</a>>> >> <a>> href="> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0001.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C1dde6b93ce3d4e739c2d08dacf4e2bfa%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050231897795227%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=6%2FVPk0Yz0raPaBiMYAaNVBCs6BuuLQqJ4yaULWKtmH8%3D&amp;reserved=0"> >> target="_blank">Rudder 2a.jpg</a>>> >> <a>> href="> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0002.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C1dde6b93ce3d4e739c2d08dacf4e2bfa%7C995b0> >> 93648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050231897795227%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=falg7p83u8J%2FJM8rsVG3WYzN2JmNaPn06t2a0pbB0bA%3D&amp;reserved=0"> >> target="_blank">Rudder 3a.jpg</a>>> > > -------------- next part> -------------- A non-text attachment was > scrubbed...> Name: Rudder> 4a.jpg> Type: image/jpeg> Size: 413162 bytes> Desc: Rudder 4a.jpg> URL: <> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221126%2Fa02587b5%2Fattachment.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C1dde6b93ce3d4e739c2d08dacf4e2bfa%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050231897795227%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=%2FfotS3oaMoPJ49l2BJvvTqJIHg7PKELw63aG5D1ORAY%3D&amp;reserved=0> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 4> > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 11:37:24 -0500> > From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Message-ID: <c5674348-daad-0878-9b7e-814b9df175c8 at vt.edu>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"> >> > It is so interesting that to me that this topic just came up. I've been> > thinking about posting some late-season observations about my Rhodes> > that are closely related to this thread.> >> > After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be excessive lee> > helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the forward edge> > of my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white rudder shown in> > Bob's photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to rectify this, I> > changed how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than pull it tight,> > I eased off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the leading> > edge of the rudder close to vertical.> >> > I only had the opportunity to try this twice before we had to take the> > boat out for the season, but in both outings, I was able to much more> > easily balance the helm and was able to tack very close to 90 degrees> > (something that eluded me on this boat since we purchased her). Attached> > is a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while> > sailing as close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were> > about 95 degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so> > I consider this a great improvement.> >> > Also, prior to trying this adjustment with the rudder, we frequently had> > difficulty bringing the bow through the wind; we had to be very precise> > with our timing of releasing sheets. I did not have the opportunity to> > test the change in high wind conditions, but she seemed to be much more> > responsive to a turn to windward.> >> > I'll continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a> > way to be sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.> >> > Chris> >> > -------------- next part --------------> > A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> > Name: IMG_4528.PNG> > Type: image/png> > Size: 460057 bytes> > Desc: not available> > URL: <> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221129/2624e7f9/attachment.png> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 5> > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 13:13:33 -0500> > From: <jpd9668 at gmail.com>> > To: "'The Rhodes 22 Email List'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Message-ID: <000201d9041e$513b6fc0$f3b24f40$@gmail.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain;???? charset="utf-8"> >> > Chris,> > Yours is much different than my experience. Until Stan instructed me how> to use the downhaul on the rudder, I had severe lee helm. Once I pulled the> downhaul tight my helm has been balanced ever since. If you're getting 95> deg. or less on point, that's pretty good. Do you have roller furling jib?> >> > Joe Dempsey> > S/V Respite> > Deltaville, VA> >> > -----Original Message-----> > From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of> Chris on LBI> > Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2022 11:37 AM> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> >> > It is so interesting that to me that this topic just came up. I've been> thinking about posting some late-season observations about my Rhodes that> are closely related to this thread.> >> > After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be excessive lee> helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the forward edge of> my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white rudder shown in Bob's> photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to rectify this, I changed> how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than pull it tight, I eased> off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the leading edge of the> rudder close to vertical.> >> > I only had the opportunity to try this twice before we had to take the> boat out for the season, but in both outings, I was able to much more> easily balance the helm and was able to tack very close to 90 degrees> (something that eluded me on this boat since we purchased her). Attached is> a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while sailing as> close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were about 95> degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so I consider> this a great improvement.> >> > Also, prior to trying this adjustment with the rudder, we frequently had> difficulty bringing the bow through the wind; we had to be very precise> with our timing of releasing sheets. I did not have the opportunity to test> the change in high wind conditions, but she seemed to be much more> responsive to a turn to windward.> >> > I'll continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a> way to be sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.> >> > Chris> >> > -------------- next part --------------> > A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> > Name: IMG_4528.PNG> > Type: image/png> > Size: 460057 bytes> > Desc: not available> > URL: <> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221129/2624e7f9/attachment.png> >> >> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 6> > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 19:55:21 +0000> > From: ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Message-ID:> >?????? <> CY8PR10MB6683D4528620D2943A4CEFFF80129 at CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com> >> >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"> >> > Chris,> >> > After reading your post, I went out and looked my boat?s rudder.? On my> R-22, the rudder blade pivots until it comes up against the underside of> the rudder head.? On my boat, the leading edge of the rudder blade makes a> straight line with the leading edge of the rudder head when the rudder> blade is all the way down against this positive mechanical stop.? However,> there are several manufacturing tolerances that can affect this geometry.> The exact size and shape of the rudder head and rudder blade relative to> the location of the rudder blade?s pivot are critical.? If your rudder> blade pivots too far forward, probably the easiest way to fix it will be to> install a shim in between the bottom of the rudder head and the top of the> rudder blade.> >> > I know from experience; that, pivoting the rudder blade up tends to> increase weather helm.? But, in my experience, the helm is not that> sensitive to this adjustment, especially when the rudder blade is nearly> fully down.? How much did you have to move the rudder blade in order to get> rid of your lee helm?> >> > By the way, what was your angle of heel when you were doing your tacking> angle experiment?? As you may know, the wetted surface area of the R-22> hull becomes very asymmetric as the hull heels over.? The asymmetry tends> to produce weather helm, becoming more pronounced as the angle of heel> increases.? You may find your boat has lee helm when sailed flat,> transitioning to neutral helm, and then weather helm as you heel over.> Before you modify your rudder, be certain you are not introducing heavy> weather helm when the boat?s rail is in the water.> >> > Roger Pihlaja> > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium> >> > Sent from my iPhone> >> On Nov 29, 2022, at 1:13 PM, jpd9668 at gmail.com wrote:> >>> >> ?Chris,> >> Yours is much different than my experience. Until Stan instructed me> how to use the downhaul on the rudder, I had severe lee helm. Once I pulled> the downhaul tight my helm has been balanced ever since. If you're getting> 95 deg. or less on point, that's pretty good. Do you have roller furling> jib?> >>> >> Joe Dempsey> >> S/V Respite> >> Deltaville, VA> >>> >> -----Original Message-----> >> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of> Chris on LBI> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2022 11:37 AM> >> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> >>> >> It is so interesting that to me that this topic just came up. I've been> thinking about posting some late-season observations about my Rhodes that> are closely related to this thread.> >>> >> After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be excessive> lee helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the forward> edge of my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white rudder shown> in Bob's photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to rectify this, I> changed how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than pull it tight, I> eased off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the leading edge of> the rudder close to vertical.> >>> >> I only had the opportunity to try this twice before we had to take the> boat out for the season, but in both outings, I was able to much more> easily balance the helm and was able to tack very close to 90 degrees> (something that eluded me on this boat since we purchased her). Attached is> a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while sailing as> close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were about 95> degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so I consider> this a great improvement.> >>> >> Also, prior to trying this adjustment with the rudder, we frequently> had difficulty bringing the bow through the wind; we had to be very precise> with our timing of releasing sheets. I did not have the opportunity to test> the change in high wind conditions, but she seemed to be much more> responsive to a turn to windward.> >>> >> I'll continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a> way to be sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.> >>> >> Chris> >>> >> -------------- next part --------------> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> >> Name: IMG_4528.PNG> >> Type: image/png> >> Size: 460057 bytes> >> Desc: not available> >> URL: <> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221129%2F2624e7f9%2Fattachment.png&amp;data=05%7C01%7C%7C14e50c603e664400598208dad235763f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638053424313125675%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=sddmh3HKnm78KH1y%2BWXGh63%2Fqy8FvY4X1TDKohWJ1Ng%3D&amp;reserved=0> >> >>> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 7> > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 23:25:59 -0500> > From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Message-ID: <b482d3ee-6fbb-a590-0f60-6b2eccf7982f at vt.edu>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed> >> > Joe,> > I do have a roller furling jib. On this particular day, when I was> > experimenting, I had my 130 genoa unfurled to the upper shrouds.> > Chris> >> > On 11/29/2022 1:13 PM, jpd9668 at gmail.com wrote:> >> Chris,> >> Yours is much different than my experience. Until Stan instructed me> how to use the downhaul on the rudder, I had severe lee helm. Once I pulled> the downhaul tight my helm has been balanced ever since. If you're getting> 95 deg. or less on point, that's pretty good. Do you have roller furling> jib?> >>> >> Joe Dempsey> >> S/V Respite> >> Deltaville, VA> >>> >> -----Original Message-----> >> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of> Chris on LBI> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2022 11:37 AM> >> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> >>> >> It is so interesting that to me that this topic just came up. I've been> thinking about posting some late-season observations about my Rhodes that> are closely related to this thread.> >>> >> After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be excessive> lee helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the forward> edge of my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white rudder shown> in Bob's photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to rectify this, I> changed how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than pull it tight, I> eased off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the leading edge of> the rudder close to vertical.> >>> >> I only had the opportunity to try this twice before we had to take the> boat out for the season, but in both outings, I was able to much more> easily balance the helm and was able to tack very close to 90 degrees> (something that eluded me on this boat since we purchased her). Attached is> a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while sailing as> close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were about 95> degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so I consider> this a great improvement.> >>> >> Also, prior to trying this adjustment with the rudder, we frequently> had difficulty bringing the bow through the wind; we had to be very precise> with our timing of releasing sheets. I did not have the opportunity to test> the change in high wind conditions, but she seemed to be much more> responsive to a turn to windward.> >>> >> I'll continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a> way to be sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.> >>> >> Chris> >>> >> -------------- next part --------------> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> >> Name: IMG_4528.PNG> >> Type: image/png> >> Size: 460057 bytes> >> Desc: not available> >> URL: <> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221129/2624e7f9/attachment.png> >> >>> >> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 8> > Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 00:04:49 -0500> > From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Message-ID: <f0d18634-48d9-7382-498d-3774198dc6de at vt.edu>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed> >> > Roger,> >> > I don't have a sense for how much I moved the rudder blade on my two> > trials. I was just hoping that some change would be noticeable. I'll pay> > more attention next season, and, next time I have a chance, I'll try to> > measure the difference between the "full down haul" position and the> > vertical position. I'll also look at the mechanical stop to get a sense> > for how a shim might be implemented. But for now, I think just using the> > tension between the down-haul and the up-haul will be best for> > experimenting so that I can convince myself that helm behavior really> > does change.> >> > On the two days that I experimented, I was intentionally keeping the> > heel angle minimal, attempting to keep it flat. The winds were around 10> > kts. I had the 130 genoa unfurled to the upper shrouds. So the luff of> > the headsail was not shaped well due to the sail furled on the headstay.> >> > On many days, we find ourselves sailing in 18 to 20 kts. We tend to be> > timid about heeling too much and generally either fall off to a more> > comfortable (flatter) reach or reduce sail. I've never really> > experienced the transition to weather helm due to heeling - even when we> > are heeled past our comfort angle. We probably head up before heeling> > sufficiently to cause the hull shape to induce weather helm.> >> > Chris> >> >> >> > On 11/29/2022 2:55 PM, ROGER PIHLAJA wrote:> >> Chris,> >>> >> After reading your post, I went out and looked my boat?s rudder.? On my> R-22, the rudder blade pivots until it comes up against the underside of> the rudder head.? On my boat, the leading edge of the rudder blade makes a> straight line with the leading edge of the rudder head when the rudder> blade is all the way down against this positive mechanical stop.? However,> there are several manufacturing tolerances that can affect this geometry.> The exact size and shape of the rudder head and rudder blade relative to> the location of the rudder blade?s pivot are critical.? If your rudder> blade pivots too far forward, probably the easiest way to fix it will be to> install a shim in between the bottom of the rudder head and the top of the> rudder blade.> >>> >> I know from experience; that, pivoting the rudder blade up tends to> increase weather helm.? But, in my experience, the helm is not that> sensitive to this adjustment, especially when the rudder blade is nearly> fully down.? How much did you have to move the rudder blade in order to get> rid of your lee helm?> >>> >> By the way, what was your angle of heel when you were doing your> tacking angle experiment?? As you may know, the wetted surface area of the> R-22 hull becomes very asymmetric as the hull heels over.? The asymmetry> tends to produce weather helm, becoming more pronounced as the angle of> heel increases.? You may find your boat has lee helm when sailed flat,> transitioning to neutral helm, and then weather helm as you heel over.> Before you modify your rudder, be certain you are not introducing heavy> weather helm when the boat?s rail is in the water.> >>> >> Roger Pihlaja> >> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium> >>> >> Sent from my iPhone> >>> On Nov 29, 2022, at 1:13 PM, jpd9668 at gmail.com wrote:> >>>> >>> ?Chris,> >>> Yours is much different than my experience. Until Stan instructed me> how to use the downhaul on the rudder, I had severe lee helm. Once I pulled> the downhaul tight my helm has been balanced ever since. If you're getting> 95 deg. or less on point, that's pretty good. Do you have roller furling> jib?> >>>> >>> Joe Dempsey> >>> S/V Respite> >>> Deltaville, VA> >>>> >>> -----Original Message-----> >>> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of> Chris on LBI> >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2022 11:37 AM> >>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> >>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> >>>> >>> It is so interesting that to me that this topic just came up. I've> been thinking about posting some late-season observations about my Rhodes> that are closely related to this thread.> >>>> >>> After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be excessive> lee helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the forward> edge of my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white rudder shown> in Bob's photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to rectify this, I> changed how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than pull it tight, I> eased off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the leading edge of> the rudder close to vertical.> >>>> >>> I only had the opportunity to try this twice before we had to take the> boat out for the season, but in both outings, I was able to much more> easily balance the helm and was able to tack very close to 90 degrees> (something that eluded me on this boat since we purchased her). Attached is> a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while sailing as> close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were about 95> degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so I consider> this a great improvement.> >>>> >>> Also, prior to trying this adjustment with the rudder, we frequently> had difficulty bringing the bow through the wind; we had to be very precise> with our timing of releasing sheets. I did not have the opportunity to test> the change in high wind conditions, but she seemed to be much more> responsive to a turn to windward.> >>>> >>> I'll continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a> way to be sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.> >>>> >>> Chris> >>>> >>> -------------- next part --------------> >>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> >>> Name: IMG_4528.PNG> >>> Type: image/png> >>> Size: 460057 bytes> >>> Desc: not available> >>> URL: <> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221129%2F2624e7f9%2Fattachment.png&amp;data=05%7C01%7C%7C14e50c603e664400598208dad235763f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638053424313125675%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=sddmh3HKnm78KH1y%2BWXGh63%2Fqy8FvY4X1TDKohWJ1Ng%3D&amp;reserved=0> >> >>>> >> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 9> > Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 08:13:30 -0500> > From: jpd9668 <jpd9668 at gmail.com>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Message-ID: <63875705.020a0220.7c723.105e at mx.google.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"> >> > Chris,I was very un-clear. The 95 degrees i was referring to was from> 45+ degrees on either side of the wind. Was that your point of reference as> well? I can get 45 degrees on Port tack? but have trouble getting that> close on on starboard tack.Joe DempseySent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G,> an AT&T 5G smartphone> > -------- Original message --------From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu>> Date: 11/29/22? 11:26 PM? (GMT-05:00) To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder |> 84 Rhodes 22 Joe,I do have a roller furling jib. On this particular day,> when I was experimenting, I had my 130 genoa unfurled to the upper> shrouds.ChrisOn 11/29/2022 1:13 PM, jpd9668 at gmail.com wrote:> Chris,>> Yours is much different than my experience. Until Stan instructed me how to> use the downhaul on the rudder, I had severe lee helm. Once I pulled the> downhaul tight my helm has been balanced ever since. If you're getting 95> deg. or less on point, that's pretty good. Do you have roller furling> jib?>> Joe Dempsey> S/V Respite> Deltaville, VA>> -----Original> Message-----> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On> Behalf Of Chris on LBI> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2022 11:37 AM> To: The> Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> Subject: Re:> > [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22>> It is so interesting that> to me that this topic just came up. I've been thinking about posting some> late-season observations about my Rhodes that are closely related to this> thread.>> After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be> excessive lee helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the> forward edge of my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white> rudder shown in Bob's photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to> rectify this, I changed how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than> pull it tight, I eased off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the> leading edge of the rudder close to vertical.>> I only had the opportunity> to try this twice before we had to take the boat out for the season, but in> both outings, I was able to much more easily balance the helm and was able> to tack very close to 90 degrees (something that eluded me on this boat> since we purchased her). Attached> > is a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while> sailing as close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were> about 95 degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so I> consider this a great improvement.>> Also, prior to trying this adjustment> with the rudder, we frequently had difficulty bringing the bow through the> wind; we had to be very precise with our timing of releasing sheets. I did> not have the opportunity to test the change in high wind conditions, but> she seemed to be much more responsive to a turn to windward.>> I'll> continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a way to be> sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.>> Chris>>> -------------- next part --------------> A non-text attachment was> scrubbed...> Name: IMG_4528.PNG> Type: image/png> Size: 460057 bytes> Desc:> not available> URL: <> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221129/2624e7f9/attachment.png> >>> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 10> > Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 09:51:19 -0500> > From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Message-ID: <6d06f513-d256-ca5d-0877-3e0065372fc7 at vt.edu>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed> >> > Joe,> >> > I'm not sure which tack I do better on. I'll have to try to check next> > season. I'm afraid that it might be difficult for me to know for sure> > since I am always dealing with significant tidal currents that make> > precise measurements like that nearly impossible.> >> > Chris> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 11> > Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 17:11:30 -0500> > From: Lee Kuhn <lvjkuhn at gmail.com>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Removing Gas from Fuel Line> > Message-ID:> >?????? <> CAPgvAEmLX7eK5u+y+CKO1chXfn-2HMT1WPSNuo40riptahb_fQ at mail.gmail.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"> >> > What's the easiest way to remove gas from the fuel hose?? The hose has a> > ball spring valve at both ends.? I was told not to push the valve open> with> > some type of tool because I could damage the valve.> >> > I disconnected the tank and put it in the lazarette and then reran the> hose> > into the lazarette and reconnected the hose to the tank which opened the> > valve on that end.? I then disconnected the hose from the outboard and> > held it up as high as I could (gravity) and squeezed the primer.? The> > primer pumps gas in the opposite direction than I wanted but if you> squeeze> > it hard and slow the gas will eventually drain into the tank.> >> > Seems like there must be a better way.? The gas was ethanol-free with a> > stabilizer.? Should I just leave it in the hose and hope I won't have any> > problems starting the outboard in the Spring?> >> > Lee> > 1999 Rhodes22? AT EASE> > Claytor Lake, VA> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 12> > Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 14:30:19 -0800> > From: Peter Nyberg <peter at sunnybeeches.com>> > To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Removing Gas from Fuel Line> > Message-ID: <E1p0Vat-0063j5-BP at s152.servername.online>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"> >> > Lee,> >> > It never occurred to me to worry about this.? I do empty my boat fuel> tanks into a vehicle in the fall, and I do use a stabilizer for all my boat> fuel.? But, I don't have a convenient source for ethanol-free fuel, so I> use the universal 90/10 mix.> >> > Long story short, I've never had a problem getting my outboard running> in the spring.> >> > Peter Nyberg> > Coventry, CT> > s/v Silverheels (1988/2016)> >> >> On 2022-11-30, at 17:11:30 EST, Lee Kuhn wrote:> >>> >> What's the easiest way to remove gas from the fuel hose?? The hose has> a ball> >> spring valve at both ends.? I was told not to push the valve open with> some type> >> of tool because I could damage the valve.> >>> >> I disconnected the tank and put it in the lazarette and then reran the> hose into> >> the lazarette and reconnected the hose to the tank which opened the> valve on> >> that end.? I then disconnected the hose from the outboard and held it> up as high> >> as I could (gravity) and squeezed the primer.? The primer pumps gas in> the> >> opposite direction than I wanted but if you squeeze it hard and slow> the gas> >> will eventually drain into the tank.> >>> >> Seems like there must be a better way.? The gas was ethanol-free with a> >> stabilizer.? Should I just leave it in the hose and hope I won't have> any> >> problems starting the outboard in the Spring?> >>> >> Lee> >> 1999 Rhodes22? AT EASE> >> Claytor Lake, VA> >>> >> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 13> > Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 22:34:37 +0000> > From: ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Removing Gas from Fuel Line> > Message-ID:> >?????? <> CY8PR10MB668383056F98D5A9E6BA561880159 at CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com> >> >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"> >> > Lee,> >> > As long as you push on the ball check valve with something soft, like a> piece of plastic, you are unlikely to damage it.? I always drain the gas> line at the end of the season.> >> > Roger Pihlaja> > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium> >> > Sent from my iPhone> >> >> On Nov 30, 2022, at 5:11 PM, Lee Kuhn <lvjkuhn at gmail.com> wrote:> >>> >> ?What's the easiest way to remove gas from the fuel hose?? The hose has> a> >> ball spring valve at both ends.? I was told not to push the valve open> with> >> some type of tool because I could damage the valve.> >>> >> I disconnected the tank and put it in the lazarette and then reran the> hose> >> into the lazarette and reconnected the hose to the tank which opened the> >> valve on that end.? I then disconnected the hose from the outboard and> >> held it up as high as I could (gravity) and squeezed the primer.? The> >> primer pumps gas in the opposite direction than I wanted but if you> squeeze> >> it hard and slow the gas will eventually drain into the tank.> >>> >> Seems like there must be a better way.? The gas was ethanol-free with a> >> stabilizer.? Should I just leave it in the hose and hope I won't have> any> >> problems starting the outboard in the Spring?> >>> >> Lee> >> 1999 Rhodes22? AT EASE> >> Claytor Lake, VA> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 14> > Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 21:56:55 -0500 (EST)> > From: cjlowe at sssnet.com> > To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Removing Gas from Fuel Line> > Message-ID:> >?????? <55562.24.140.30.102.1669863415.squirrel at quickpop.sssnet.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1> >> >> Lee,> >> >? I bought a replacement for my motor connection, and keep on board in> > spare parts. End of season, I put the gas tank in the bed of the truck ,> > put the spare connector on the end of the hose and stick it in a five> > gallon gas can, pump the bulb a couple times and drink a beer.> >> >> > Jerry Lowe SV Country Rhodes '86> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Lee,> >>> >> As long as you push on the ball check valve with something soft, like a> >> piece of plastic, you are unlikely to damage it.? I always drain the gas> >> line at the end of the season.> >>> >> Roger Pihlaja> >> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium> >>> >> Sent from my iPhone> >>> >>> On Nov 30, 2022, at 5:11 PM, Lee Kuhn <lvjkuhn at gmail.com> wrote:> >>>> >>> ???What's the easiest way to remove gas from the fuel hose?? The hose> >>> has a> >>> ball spring valve at both ends.? I was told not to push the valve open> >>> with> >>> some type of tool because I could damage the valve.> >>>> >>> I disconnected the tank and put it in the lazarette and then reran the> >>> hose> >>> into the lazarette and reconnected the hose to the tank which opened> >>> the> >>> valve on that end.? I then disconnected the hose from the outboard and> >>> held it up as high as I could (gravity) and squeezed the primer.? The> >>> primer pumps gas in the opposite direction than I wanted but if you> >>> squeeze> >>> it hard and slow the gas will eventually drain into the tank.> >>>> >>> Seems like there must be a better way.? The gas was ethanol-free with a> >>> stabilizer.? Should I just leave it in the hose and hope I won't have> >>> any> >>> problems starting the outboard in the Spring?> >>>> >>> Lee> >>> 1999 Rhodes22? AT EASE> >>> Claytor Lake, VA> >>> >> >> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 15> > Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2022 11:20:16 -0500> > From: Lee Kuhn <lvjkuhn at gmail.com>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Removing Gas from Fuel Line> > Message-ID:> >?????? <CAPgvAEmEw1T0F=j6vm7_B41=> v2qw5quKvjERcOc08r2D+zUFrA at mail.gmail.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"> >> > I like Roger's idea to release the ball-spring with something that won't> > cause damage.? If I place the tank on the cockpit seat I and pull the> hose> > down tight I should be able to get most of the gas out, and on me.> >> > I like Peter's idea to do nothing.? I'm really good at that.? I'll> probably> > use this method along with Jerry's idea to drink a beer.> >> > Thanks guys!> >> > Lee> >> > On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 10:02 PM <cjlowe at sssnet.com> wrote:> >> >>> Lee,> >>> >>? I bought a replacement for my motor connection, and keep on board in> >> spare parts. End of season, I put the gas tank in the bed of the truck ,> >> put the spare connector on the end of the hose and stick it in a five> >> gallon gas can, pump the bulb a couple times and drink a beer.> >>> >>> >> Jerry Lowe SV Country Rhodes '86> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> Lee,> >>>> >>> As long as you push on the ball check valve with something soft, like a> >>> piece of plastic, you are unlikely to damage it.? I always drain the> gas> >>> line at the end of the season.> >>>> >>> Roger Pihlaja> >>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium> >>>> >>> Sent from my iPhone> >>>> >>>> On Nov 30, 2022, at 5:11 PM, Lee Kuhn <lvjkuhn at gmail.com> wrote:> >>>>> >>>> ?What's the easiest way to remove gas from the fuel hose?? The hose> >>>> has a> >>>> ball spring valve at both ends.? I was told not to push the valve open> >>>> with> >>>> some type of tool because I could damage the valve.> >>>>> >>>> I disconnected the tank and put it in the lazarette and then reran the> >>>> hose> >>>> into the lazarette and reconnected the hose to the tank which opened> >>>> the> >>>> valve on that end.? I then disconnected the hose from the outboard and> >>>> held it up as high as I could (gravity) and squeezed the primer.? The> >>>> primer pumps gas in the opposite direction than I wanted but if you> >>>> squeeze> >>>> it hard and slow the gas will eventually drain into the tank.> >>>>> >>>> Seems like there must be a better way.? The gas was ethanol-free with> a> >>>> stabilizer.? Should I just leave it in the hose and hope I won't have> >>>> any> >>>> problems starting the outboard in the Spring?> >>>>> >>>> Lee> >>>> 1999 Rhodes22? AT EASE> >>>> Claytor Lake, VA> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 16> > Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2022 09:34:31 -0500> > From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Message-ID: <9d4c38a9-5e00-a0a0-7528-73c2e3aa8422 at vt.edu>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"> >> > I was able to take a look at the rudder yesterday. In hindsight, I can't> > believe that it took me 5 full seasons of sailing to recognize that this> > was a potential problem. Attached are three photos. The first gives a> > sense of how far the rudder swings under the hull when the down-haul is> > used to pull the rudder against the "stop".? In the second photo I have> > placed a white piece of plastic vertically to make more obvious how much> > past vertical the rudder is when it is against the stop. The forward> > edge of the white plastic is parallel with the forward edge of the> > rudder head. The third photo shows the "stop" which is the forward side> > of the rudder head (as Roger stated).> >> > As Roger predicted in his previous email, it appears that the mechanical> > variations of this particular rudder and rudder head allow the rudder to> > rotate too far forward. As he suggested, I will experiment with a shim> > to correct this. If this does not work out easily, I will place a mark> > on the up-haul so that I know how far to deploy it to keep the rudder> > from over-rotating, and then tension the down-haul against it.> >> > Chris> > -------------- next part --------------> > A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> > Name: IMG_4808.jpg> > Type: image/jpeg> > Size: 77096 bytes> > Desc: not available> > URL: <> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment.jpg> >> > -------------- next part --------------> > A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> > Name: IMG_4810.jpg> > Type: image/jpeg> > Size: 65366 bytes> > Desc: not available> > URL: <> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment-0001.jpg> >> > -------------- next part --------------> > A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> > Name: IMG_4811.jpg> > Type: image/jpeg> > Size: 81121 bytes> > Desc: not available> > URL: <> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment-0002.jpg> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 17> > Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2022 10:14:48 -0500> > From: Mary Lou Troy <mtroy at atlanticbb.net>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Message-ID: <01193a8d-1d85-3485-05a1-959ac2b949a7 at atlanticbb.net>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed> >> > I have not been following this discussion closely and I am relying on> > memory here so take these statements with a grain of salt.> >> > When we purchased Fretless (recycled) in 1998 we had a number of> > discussions with Stan about rigging, helm and the rudder. He was quite> > clear that the proper position for the rudder underway was pulled> > forward of vertical so it was somewhat under the hull. Fred and I both> > remember the boat as being somewhat sluggish and less responsive if the> > rudder was not pulled far enough forward. Helm was also affected by the> > position of the rudder.> >> > I'll keep an eye out the results of your testing as I suppose it is> > indeed possible to have it too far forward if the fittings have changed> > but Stan set up our boat and we always pulled it as far forward as it> > would go.> >> > When doing your tests, make sure all the other variables are the same -> > for example the boat is very affected, usually positively, by weight in> > the bow. As our water tank was nearly centerline, we usually had it> > filled more than half way.> >> > All our best,> > Mary Lou (and Fred)> > ex Rhodes 22> > now Rosborough RF-246? Tara> > Rock Hall, MD> >> > On 12/4/2022 9:34 AM, Chris on LBI wrote:> >> I was able to take a look at the rudder yesterday. In hindsight, I> >> can't believe that it took me 5 full seasons of sailing to recognize> >> that this was a potential problem. Attached are three photos. The> >> first gives a sense of how far the rudder swings under the hull when> >> the down-haul is used to pull the rudder against the "stop". In the> >> second photo I have placed a white piece of plastic vertically to make> >> more obvious how much past vertical the rudder is when it is against> >> the stop. The forward edge of the white plastic is parallel with the> >> forward edge of the rudder head. The third photo shows the "stop"> >> which is the forward side of the rudder head (as Roger stated).> >>> >> As Roger predicted in his previous email, it appears that the> >> mechanical variations of this particular rudder and rudder head allow> >> the rudder to rotate too far forward. As he suggested, I will> >> experiment with a shim to correct this. If this does not work out> >> easily, I will place a mark on the up-haul so that I know how far to> >> deploy it to keep the rudder from over-rotating, and then tension the> >> down-haul against it.> >>> >> Chris> >> -------------- next part --------------> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> >> Name: IMG_4808.jpg> >> Type: image/jpeg> >> Size: 77096 bytes> >> Desc: not available> >> URL:> >> <> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment.jpg> >> >> -------------- next part --------------> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> >> Name: IMG_4810.jpg> >> Type: image/jpeg> >> Size: 65366 bytes> >> Desc: not available> >> URL:> >> <> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment-0001.jpg> >> >> -------------- next part --------------> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> >> Name: IMG_4811.jpg> >> Type: image/jpeg> >> Size: 81121 bytes> >> Desc: not available> >> URL:> >> <> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment-0002.jpg> >> >> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 18> > Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2022 10:38:22 -0500> > From: Todd Tavares <tavares0947 at gmail.com>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Message-ID:> >?????? <CAB-twMN_dJb0-eHOQC9j3P_2TPx5a=EjrHrOfCMLguGGZLiq=> A at mail.gmail.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"> >> > Chris,> > Rather than trying to mess around with making and securing a shim, would> it> > be easier to re-fabricate that entire forward vertical blocking between> the> > rudderhead faces?> >> > Todd T> >> > On Sun, Dec 4, 2022, 9:34 AM Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu> wrote:> >> >> I was able to take a look at the rudder yesterday. In hindsight, I can't> >> believe that it took me 5 full seasons of sailing to recognize that this> >> was a potential problem. Attached are three photos. The first gives a> >> sense of how far the rudder swings under the hull when the down-haul is> >> used to pull the rudder against the "stop".? In the second photo I have> >> placed a white piece of plastic vertically to make more obvious how much> >> past vertical the rudder is when it is against the stop. The forward> >> edge of the white plastic is parallel with the forward edge of the> >> rudder head. The third photo shows the "stop" which is the forward side> >> of the rudder head (as Roger stated).> >>> >> As Roger predicted in his previous email, it appears that the mechanical> >> variations of this particular rudder and rudder head allow the rudder to> >> rotate too far forward. As he suggested, I will experiment with a shim> >> to correct this. If this does not work out easily, I will place a mark> >> on the up-haul so that I know how far to deploy it to keep the rudder> >> from over-rotating, and then tension the down-haul against it.> >>> >> Chris> >> -------------- next part --------------> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> >> Name: IMG_4808.jpg> >> Type: image/jpeg> >> Size: 77096 bytes> >> Desc: not available> >> URL: <> >>> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment.jpg> >>>> >> -------------- next part --------------> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> >> Name: IMG_4810.jpg> >> Type: image/jpeg> >> Size: 65366 bytes> >> Desc: not available> >> URL: <> >>> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment-0001.jpg> >>>> >> -------------- next part --------------> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> >> Name: IMG_4811.jpg> >> Type: image/jpeg> >> Size: 81121 bytes> >> Desc: not available> >> URL: <> >>> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment-0002.jpg> >>>> >>> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Subject: Digest Footer> >> > _______________________________________________> > Rhodes22-list mailing list> > Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> > http://rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > End of Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 4477, Issue 1> > **********************************************>>

From mweisner at ebsmed.com  Sun Dec  4 12:24:47 2022
From: mweisner at ebsmed.com (Michael D. Weisner)
Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2022 12:24:47 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Rhodes 22 for sail on facebook
In-Reply-To: <CAOo_FjeRzGYzBbK7LVwspyy2h6LHc6k8ubhmq-OVaYwEQrCpfA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.1851.1670174693.2787.rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1965860183639772/permalink/4020732424819194/?mibextid=Nif5ozRegards,Mikes/v Wind Lass ('91)Nissequogue River, NY
-------- Original message --------From: Stephen Staum <snstaum at gmail.com> Date: 12/4/22  12:07 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 4477, Issue 1 Can we get more info?? Is there an ad posted somewhere?? Pictures?Where is the boat located?I may be in the market.*Thanks and Stay Well,**Stephen Staum**s/v Pinafore (I hope)**Needham, MA*On Sun, Dec 4, 2022 at 10:41 AM Scott McFall <scott at hypnosisconnection.com>wrote:> I am selling my 2008 Rhodes 22 if anyone is looking.? I am wanting 17500.> Not sure if we do that in this feed or not>> > On Dec 4, 2022, at 10:38 AM, rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org wrote:> >> > Send Rhodes22-list mailing list submissions to> >?????? rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> >> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit> >?????? http://rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to> >?????? rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org> >> > You can reach the person managing the list at> >?????? rhodes22-list-owner at rhodes22.org> >> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific> > than "Re: Contents of Rhodes22-list digest..."> >> >> > Today's Topics:> >> >?? 1. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (jpd9668)> >?? 2. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (jpd9668)> >?? 3. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (jpd9668)> >?? 4. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Chris on LBI)> >?? 5. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (jpd9668 at gmail.com)> >?? 6. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (ROGER PIHLAJA)> >?? 7. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Chris on LBI)> >?? 8. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Chris on LBI)> >?? 9. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (jpd9668)> >? 10. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Chris on LBI)> >? 11. Removing Gas from Fuel Line (Lee Kuhn)> >? 12. Re: Removing Gas from Fuel Line (Peter Nyberg)> >? 13. Re: Removing Gas from Fuel Line (ROGER PIHLAJA)> >? 14. Re: Removing Gas from Fuel Line (cjlowe at sssnet.com)> >? 15. Re: Removing Gas from Fuel Line (Lee Kuhn)> >? 16. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Chris on LBI)> >? 17. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Mary Lou Troy)> >? 18. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Todd Tavares)> >> >> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------> >> > Message: 1> > Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2022 09:03:58 -0500> > From: jpd9668 <jpd9668 at gmail.com>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Message-ID: <63821cdb.020a0220.9bd25.399c at mx.google.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"> >> > I don't know what definition of curve is, but there is none unless it's> in the plane of the surface which is probably the result of the layup of> the fibreglass.Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone> > -------- Original message --------From: ROGER PIHLAJA <> roger_pihlaja at msn.com> Date: 11/25/22? 5:48 PM? (GMT-05:00) To: The> Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re:> [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 Bob,I agree with Peter.? If> there are any differences between the two rudders, they are not readily> apparent in the photos.? Is there any measurable difference in parameters> like maximum thickness, chord length from the leading edge to point of> maximum thickness, etc?? Is there any asymetery in the curvature of the> hydrofoil on each side? Both rudders appear to be straight.? What do you> mean by ?curved??Roger PihlajaS/V Dynamic EquilibriumSent from my iPhone>> On Nov 25, 2022, at 5:26 PM, Peter Nyberg <peter at sunnybeeches.com>> wrote:> > ?Bob,> > You seem happy with your new rudder, and so I'm happy> for you as well, but those two rudders look pretty much the same to me.> >> --Peter> >> On 2022-11-25, at 17:09:29 EST, C. Robert Lester wrote:>> >>> I'm the> >? new owner of a rudder off an '82 R22.>> Cannot wait to sail / race next> sailing season.>> Took some pics of my '84 Rudder (curved, black/red) and> '82 Rudder (white) side >> by side. >> The boats are only 2 years apart but> the rudder heads as well as the rudders are >> not similar at all. >> I was> going to buy the '82 stern rail as well but that is even a different mount> >> and size from my '84. >> Comments, questions?>> >> Thanks all,>> Bob>>> '84 ORION>> >> >> >> >> <a >> href="> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7C%7Cd09861f000784a7cb42808dacf340f30%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638050119754738534%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=2%2FlYlSVnEpTnaNqcJ6KcohYH5Mp6bJicXQXi5es2bCg%3D&amp;reserved=0"> >> target="_blank">Rudder 1a.jpg</a> >> >> <a> >>> href="> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0001.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7C%7Cd09861f000784a7cb42808dacf340f30%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638050119754738534%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=jb%2FqyXGnRhbl%2B96mT3YAC7z6k%2FGWx16Nu09%2Bv%2BBz3pU%3D&amp;reserved=0"> >> target="_blank">Rudder 2a.jpg</a> >> >> <a >> href="> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0002.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7C%7Cd09861f000784a7cb42808dacf340f30%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638050119754738534%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=1gLAUSJD%2FLJHorQ5gSy79T%2B9EPYD3M5%2Bf6hkidjNvnY%3D&a> > mp;reserved=0" >> target="_blank">Rudder 3a.jpg</a> >> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 2> > Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2022 09:10:09 -0500> > From: jpd9668 <jpd9668 at gmail.com>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Message-ID: <63821e4f.020a0220.9bd25.39b5 at mx.google.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"> >> > Well, that's not good. Its bent! Don't know what would cause that, but I> would think that it will affect performance through increased drag. Roger> would know better than I.?Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G> smartphone> > -------- Original message --------From: "C. Robert Lester" <> C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu> Date: 11/25/22? 7:17 PM? (GMT-05:00) To:> The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re:> [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 Thanks Peter.Forgive me for> not being able to capture the differences in shape with the first pics.Here> is the original pic that I posted. (Yes, that is snow on the ground when I> pulled her at end of season.).Note:Tiller handle was placed,> centerline.Rudder head at top you can see bolts & nuts both sides.Rudder is> twisted to port, but curved to Starboard.I hope this is helpful.Not the> pics yesterday show the "patches" of repair that were exposed by pressure> washing off the red and black paint this summer.Bob'84 Orion-----Original> Message-----From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On> Behalf Of Peter NybergSent: Friday, November 25, 2022 5:26 PMTo:> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.orgSubject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84> >? Rhodes 22Bob,You seem happy with your new rudder, and so I'm happy for> you as well, but those two rudders look pretty much the same to me.--Peter>> On 2022-11-25, at 17:09:29 EST, C. Robert Lester wrote:>> I'm the new owner> of a rudder off an '82 R22.> Cannot wait to sail / race next sailing> season.> Took some pics of my '84 Rudder (curved, black/red) and '82 Rudder> > (white) side by side.> The boats are only 2 years apart but the rudder> heads as well as the > rudders are not similar at all.> I was going to buy> the '82 stern rail as well but that is even a > different mount and size> from my '84.> Comments, questions?> > Thanks all,> Bob> '84 ORION> > > > >> <a> href="> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C91e9c5d0f0f848ba822108dacf340ef6%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050119769164077%7CUnk> >> nown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=jAH1SgjXpqNVYA9DFo%2BOaW51Yru7cRlFl1y%2Fk5WFwDs%3D&amp;reserved=0"> > target="_blank">Rudder 1a.jpg</a>> > <a> href="> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0001.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C91e9c5d0f0f848ba822108dacf340ef6%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050119769164077%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=bhZbS3G14v5gWsMzgfXiKpbleK6dYLGM5Kfquowb1Kg%3D&amp;reserved=0"> > target="_blank">Rudder 2a.jpg</a>> > <a> href="> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0002.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C9> >> 1e9c5d0f0f848ba822108dacf340ef6%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050119769164077%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=vjTwF84WbZig1mFjUzfjKx6C0y9II68CqjER8ceXTfU%3D&amp;reserved=0"> > target="_blank">Rudder 3a.jpg</a>> -------------- next part> --------------A non-text attachment was scrubbed...Name: Rudder 4a.jpgType:> image/jpegSize: 413162 bytesDesc: Rudder 4a.jpgURL: <> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221126/a02587b5/attachment.jpg> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 3> > Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2022 09:13:30 -0500> > From: jpd9668 <jpd9668 at gmail.com>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Message-ID: <63821f0f.020a0220.9bd25.39be at mx.google.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"> >> > ?I don't think there's any difference between 82 and 84 or any other> year rudders. Don't stigmatize '84 rudders!Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S22> 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone> > -------- Original message --------From: "C. Robert Lester" <> C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu> Date: 11/25/22? 9:31 PM? (GMT-05:00) To:> The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re:> [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 Thanks Roger.Sailing the last> 10 yrs of ORION has been favored port tack, with a Catalina 22 rudder> tiller.It will be nice next season to see how this '82 rudder tacks?Bob'84> ORION-----Original Message-----From: Rhodes22-list <> rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of ROGER PIHLAJASent:> Friday, November 25, 2022 8:33 PMTo: The Rhodes 22 Email List <> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder |> 84 Rhodes 22Hi Bob,OK, now I see what you mean.? Is that much misalignment> noticeable under sail??? Is the tiller position different to go straight> ahead on port tack vs starboard tack?Anyway, I don?t think there is any way> to fix that rudder blade.? So, you did the right thing to replace it.Roger> PihlajaS/V Dynami> > c EquilibriumSent from my iPhone> On Nov 25, 2022, at 7:17 PM, C. Robert> Lester <C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu> wrote:> > ?Thanks Peter.> Forgive> me for not being able to capture the differences in shape with the first> pics.> Here is the original pic that I posted. (Yes, that is snow on the> ground when I pulled her at end of season.).> Note:> Tiller handle was> placed, centerline.> Rudder head at top you can see bolts & nuts both> sides.> Rudder is twisted to port, but curved to Starboard.> I hope this is> helpful.> Not the pics yesterday show the "patches" of repair that were> exposed by pressure washing off the red and black paint this summer.> Bob>> '84 Orion> > > -----Original Message-----> From: Rhodes22-list <> rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of > Peter Nyberg> Sent:> Friday, November 25, 2022 5:26 PM> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Bob,> > You> seem happy with your new rudder, and so I'm happy for you> > as well, but those two rudders look pretty much the same to me.> >> --Peter> >> On 2022-11-25, at 17:09:29 EST, C. Robert Lester wrote:>> >>> I'm the new owner of a rudder off an '82 R22.>> Cannot wait to sail / race> next sailing season.>> Took some pics of my '84 Rudder (curved, black/red)> and '82 Rudder>> (white) side by side.>> The boats are only 2 years apart> but the rudder heads as well as the >> rudders are not similar at all.>> I> was going to buy the '82 stern rail as well but that is even a >> different> mount and size from my '84.>> Comments, questions?>> >> Thanks all,>> Bob>>> '84 ORION>> >> >> >> >> <a>> href="> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C1dde6b93ce3d4e739c2d08dacf4e2bfa%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050231897795227%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2> >> luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=5%2FvGDzW4lyDlY8bxd8C0SnVIagsqenG%2FNl74DWRsU24%3D&amp;reserved=0"> >> target="_blank">Rudder 1a.jpg</a>>> >> <a>> href="> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0001.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C1dde6b93ce3d4e739c2d08dacf4e2bfa%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050231897795227%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=6%2FVPk0Yz0raPaBiMYAaNVBCs6BuuLQqJ4yaULWKtmH8%3D&amp;reserved=0"> >> target="_blank">Rudder 2a.jpg</a>>> >> <a>> href="> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0002.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C1dde6b93ce3d4e739c2d08dacf4e2bfa%7C995b0> >> 93648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050231897795227%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=falg7p83u8J%2FJM8rsVG3WYzN2JmNaPn06t2a0pbB0bA%3D&amp;reserved=0"> >> target="_blank">Rudder 3a.jpg</a>>> > > -------------- next part> -------------- A non-text attachment was > scrubbed...> Name: Rudder> 4a.jpg> Type: image/jpeg> Size: 413162 bytes> Desc: Rudder 4a.jpg> URL: <> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221126%2Fa02587b5%2Fattachment.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C1dde6b93ce3d4e739c2d08dacf4e2bfa%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050231897795227%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=%2FfotS3oaMoPJ49l2BJvvTqJIHg7PKELw63aG5D1ORAY%3D&amp;reserved=0> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 4> > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 11:37:24 -0500> > From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Message-ID: <c5674348-daad-0878-9b7e-814b9df175c8 at vt.edu>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"> >> > It is so interesting that to me that this topic just came up. I've been> > thinking about posting some late-season observations about my Rhodes> > that are closely related to this thread.> >> > After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be excessive lee> > helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the forward edge> > of my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white rudder shown in> > Bob's photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to rectify this, I> > changed how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than pull it tight,> > I eased off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the leading> > edge of the rudder close to vertical.> >> > I only had the opportunity to try this twice before we had to take the> > boat out for the season, but in both outings, I was able to much more> > easily balance the helm and was able to tack very close to 90 degrees> > (something that eluded me on this boat since we purchased her). Attached> > is a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while> > sailing as close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were> > about 95 degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so> > I consider this a great improvement.> >> > Also, prior to trying this adjustment with the rudder, we frequently had> > difficulty bringing the bow through the wind; we had to be very precise> > with our timing of releasing sheets. I did not have the opportunity to> > test the change in high wind conditions, but she seemed to be much more> > responsive to a turn to windward.> >> > I'll continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a> > way to be sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.> >> > Chris> >> > -------------- next part --------------> > A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> > Name: IMG_4528.PNG> > Type: image/png> > Size: 460057 bytes> > Desc: not available> > URL: <> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221129/2624e7f9/attachment.png> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 5> > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 13:13:33 -0500> > From: <jpd9668 at gmail.com>> > To: "'The Rhodes 22 Email List'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Message-ID: <000201d9041e$513b6fc0$f3b24f40$@gmail.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain;???? charset="utf-8"> >> > Chris,> > Yours is much different than my experience. Until Stan instructed me how> to use the downhaul on the rudder, I had severe lee helm. Once I pulled the> downhaul tight my helm has been balanced ever since. If you're getting 95> deg. or less on point, that's pretty good. Do you have roller furling jib?> >> > Joe Dempsey> > S/V Respite> > Deltaville, VA> >> > -----Original Message-----> > From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of> Chris on LBI> > Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2022 11:37 AM> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> >> > It is so interesting that to me that this topic just came up. I've been> thinking about posting some late-season observations about my Rhodes that> are closely related to this thread.> >> > After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be excessive lee> helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the forward edge of> my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white rudder shown in Bob's> photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to rectify this, I changed> how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than pull it tight, I eased> off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the leading edge of the> rudder close to vertical.> >> > I only had the opportunity to try this twice before we had to take the> boat out for the season, but in both outings, I was able to much more> easily balance the helm and was able to tack very close to 90 degrees> (something that eluded me on this boat since we purchased her). Attached is> a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while sailing as> close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were about 95> degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so I consider> this a great improvement.> >> > Also, prior to trying this adjustment with the rudder, we frequently had> difficulty bringing the bow through the wind; we had to be very precise> with our timing of releasing sheets. I did not have the opportunity to test> the change in high wind conditions, but she seemed to be much more> responsive to a turn to windward.> >> > I'll continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a> way to be sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.> >> > Chris> >> > -------------- next part --------------> > A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> > Name: IMG_4528.PNG> > Type: image/png> > Size: 460057 bytes> > Desc: not available> > URL: <> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221129/2624e7f9/attachment.png> >> >> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 6> > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 19:55:21 +0000> > From: ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Message-ID:> >?????? <> CY8PR10MB6683D4528620D2943A4CEFFF80129 at CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com> >> >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"> >> > Chris,> >> > After reading your post, I went out and looked my boat?s rudder.? On my> R-22, the rudder blade pivots until it comes up against the underside of> the rudder head.? On my boat, the leading edge of the rudder blade makes a> straight line with the leading edge of the rudder head when the rudder> blade is all the way down against this positive mechanical stop.? However,> there are several manufacturing tolerances that can affect this geometry.> The exact size and shape of the rudder head and rudder blade relative to> the location of the rudder blade?s pivot are critical.? If your rudder> blade pivots too far forward, probably the easiest way to fix it will be to> install a shim in between the bottom of the rudder head and the top of the> rudder blade.> >> > I know from experience; that, pivoting the rudder blade up tends to> increase weather helm.? But, in my experience, the helm is not that> sensitive to this adjustment, especially when the rudder blade is nearly> fully down.? How much did you have to move the rudder blade in order to get> rid of your lee helm?> >> > By the way, what was your angle of heel when you were doing your tacking> angle experiment?? As you may know, the wetted surface area of the R-22> hull becomes very asymmetric as the hull heels over.? The asymmetry tends> to produce weather helm, becoming more pronounced as the angle of heel> increases.? You may find your boat has lee helm when sailed flat,> transitioning to neutral helm, and then weather helm as you heel over.> Before you modify your rudder, be certain you are not introducing heavy> weather helm when the boat?s rail is in the water.> >> > Roger Pihlaja> > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium> >> > Sent from my iPhone> >> On Nov 29, 2022, at 1:13 PM, jpd9668 at gmail.com wrote:> >>> >> ?Chris,> >> Yours is much different than my experience. Until Stan instructed me> how to use the downhaul on the rudder, I had severe lee helm. Once I pulled> the downhaul tight my helm has been balanced ever since. If you're getting> 95 deg. or less on point, that's pretty good. Do you have roller furling> jib?> >>> >> Joe Dempsey> >> S/V Respite> >> Deltaville, VA> >>> >> -----Original Message-----> >> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of> Chris on LBI> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2022 11:37 AM> >> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> >>> >> It is so interesting that to me that this topic just came up. I've been> thinking about posting some late-season observations about my Rhodes that> are closely related to this thread.> >>> >> After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be excessive> lee helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the forward> edge of my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white rudder shown> in Bob's photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to rectify this, I> changed how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than pull it tight, I> eased off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the leading edge of> the rudder close to vertical.> >>> >> I only had the opportunity to try this twice before we had to take the> boat out for the season, but in both outings, I was able to much more> easily balance the helm and was able to tack very close to 90 degrees> (something that eluded me on this boat since we purchased her). Attached is> a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while sailing as> close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were about 95> degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so I consider> this a great improvement.> >>> >> Also, prior to trying this adjustment with the rudder, we frequently> had difficulty bringing the bow through the wind; we had to be very precise> with our timing of releasing sheets. I did not have the opportunity to test> the change in high wind conditions, but she seemed to be much more> responsive to a turn to windward.> >>> >> I'll continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a> way to be sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.> >>> >> Chris> >>> >> -------------- next part --------------> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> >> Name: IMG_4528.PNG> >> Type: image/png> >> Size: 460057 bytes> >> Desc: not available> >> URL: <> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221129%2F2624e7f9%2Fattachment.png&amp;data=05%7C01%7C%7C14e50c603e664400598208dad235763f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638053424313125675%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=sddmh3HKnm78KH1y%2BWXGh63%2Fqy8FvY4X1TDKohWJ1Ng%3D&amp;reserved=0> >> >>> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 7> > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 23:25:59 -0500> > From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Message-ID: <b482d3ee-6fbb-a590-0f60-6b2eccf7982f at vt.edu>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed> >> > Joe,> > I do have a roller furling jib. On this particular day, when I was> > experimenting, I had my 130 genoa unfurled to the upper shrouds.> > Chris> >> > On 11/29/2022 1:13 PM, jpd9668 at gmail.com wrote:> >> Chris,> >> Yours is much different than my experience. Until Stan instructed me> how to use the downhaul on the rudder, I had severe lee helm. Once I pulled> the downhaul tight my helm has been balanced ever since. If you're getting> 95 deg. or less on point, that's pretty good. Do you have roller furling> jib?> >>> >> Joe Dempsey> >> S/V Respite> >> Deltaville, VA> >>> >> -----Original Message-----> >> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of> Chris on LBI> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2022 11:37 AM> >> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> >>> >> It is so interesting that to me that this topic just came up. I've been> thinking about posting some late-season observations about my Rhodes that> are closely related to this thread.> >>> >> After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be excessive> lee helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the forward> edge of my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white rudder shown> in Bob's photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to rectify this, I> changed how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than pull it tight, I> eased off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the leading edge of> the rudder close to vertical.> >>> >> I only had the opportunity to try this twice before we had to take the> boat out for the season, but in both outings, I was able to much more> easily balance the helm and was able to tack very close to 90 degrees> (something that eluded me on this boat since we purchased her). Attached is> a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while sailing as> close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were about 95> degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so I consider> this a great improvement.> >>> >> Also, prior to trying this adjustment with the rudder, we frequently> had difficulty bringing the bow through the wind; we had to be very precise> with our timing of releasing sheets. I did not have the opportunity to test> the change in high wind conditions, but she seemed to be much more> responsive to a turn to windward.> >>> >> I'll continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a> way to be sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.> >>> >> Chris> >>> >> -------------- next part --------------> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> >> Name: IMG_4528.PNG> >> Type: image/png> >> Size: 460057 bytes> >> Desc: not available> >> URL: <> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221129/2624e7f9/attachment.png> >> >>> >> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 8> > Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 00:04:49 -0500> > From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Message-ID: <f0d18634-48d9-7382-498d-3774198dc6de at vt.edu>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed> >> > Roger,> >> > I don't have a sense for how much I moved the rudder blade on my two> > trials. I was just hoping that some change would be noticeable. I'll pay> > more attention next season, and, next time I have a chance, I'll try to> > measure the difference between the "full down haul" position and the> > vertical position. I'll also look at the mechanical stop to get a sense> > for how a shim might be implemented. But for now, I think just using the> > tension between the down-haul and the up-haul will be best for> > experimenting so that I can convince myself that helm behavior really> > does change.> >> > On the two days that I experimented, I was intentionally keeping the> > heel angle minimal, attempting to keep it flat. The winds were around 10> > kts. I had the 130 genoa unfurled to the upper shrouds. So the luff of> > the headsail was not shaped well due to the sail furled on the headstay.> >> > On many days, we find ourselves sailing in 18 to 20 kts. We tend to be> > timid about heeling too much and generally either fall off to a more> > comfortable (flatter) reach or reduce sail. I've never really> > experienced the transition to weather helm due to heeling - even when we> > are heeled past our comfort angle. We probably head up before heeling> > sufficiently to cause the hull shape to induce weather helm.> >> > Chris> >> >> >> > On 11/29/2022 2:55 PM, ROGER PIHLAJA wrote:> >> Chris,> >>> >> After reading your post, I went out and looked my boat?s rudder.? On my> R-22, the rudder blade pivots until it comes up against the underside of> the rudder head.? On my boat, the leading edge of the rudder blade makes a> straight line with the leading edge of the rudder head when the rudder> blade is all the way down against this positive mechanical stop.? However,> there are several manufacturing tolerances that can affect this geometry.> The exact size and shape of the rudder head and rudder blade relative to> the location of the rudder blade?s pivot are critical.? If your rudder> blade pivots too far forward, probably the easiest way to fix it will be to> install a shim in between the bottom of the rudder head and the top of the> rudder blade.> >>> >> I know from experience; that, pivoting the rudder blade up tends to> increase weather helm.? But, in my experience, the helm is not that> sensitive to this adjustment, especially when the rudder blade is nearly> fully down.? How much did you have to move the rudder blade in order to get> rid of your lee helm?> >>> >> By the way, what was your angle of heel when you were doing your> tacking angle experiment?? As you may know, the wetted surface area of the> R-22 hull becomes very asymmetric as the hull heels over.? The asymmetry> tends to produce weather helm, becoming more pronounced as the angle of> heel increases.? You may find your boat has lee helm when sailed flat,> transitioning to neutral helm, and then weather helm as you heel over.> Before you modify your rudder, be certain you are not introducing heavy> weather helm when the boat?s rail is in the water.> >>> >> Roger Pihlaja> >> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium> >>> >> Sent from my iPhone> >>> On Nov 29, 2022, at 1:13 PM, jpd9668 at gmail.com wrote:> >>>> >>> ?Chris,> >>> Yours is much different than my experience. Until Stan instructed me> how to use the downhaul on the rudder, I had severe lee helm. Once I pulled> the downhaul tight my helm has been balanced ever since. If you're getting> 95 deg. or less on point, that's pretty good. Do you have roller furling> jib?> >>>> >>> Joe Dempsey> >>> S/V Respite> >>> Deltaville, VA> >>>> >>> -----Original Message-----> >>> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of> Chris on LBI> >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2022 11:37 AM> >>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> >>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> >>>> >>> It is so interesting that to me that this topic just came up. I've> been thinking about posting some late-season observations about my Rhodes> that are closely related to this thread.> >>>> >>> After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be excessive> lee helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the forward> edge of my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white rudder shown> in Bob's photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to rectify this, I> changed how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than pull it tight, I> eased off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the leading edge of> the rudder close to vertical.> >>>> >>> I only had the opportunity to try this twice before we had to take the> boat out for the season, but in both outings, I was able to much more> easily balance the helm and was able to tack very close to 90 degrees> (something that eluded me on this boat since we purchased her). Attached is> a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while sailing as> close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were about 95> degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so I consider> this a great improvement.> >>>> >>> Also, prior to trying this adjustment with the rudder, we frequently> had difficulty bringing the bow through the wind; we had to be very precise> with our timing of releasing sheets. I did not have the opportunity to test> the change in high wind conditions, but she seemed to be much more> responsive to a turn to windward.> >>>> >>> I'll continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a> way to be sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.> >>>> >>> Chris> >>>> >>> -------------- next part --------------> >>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> >>> Name: IMG_4528.PNG> >>> Type: image/png> >>> Size: 460057 bytes> >>> Desc: not available> >>> URL: <> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221129%2F2624e7f9%2Fattachment.png&amp;data=05%7C01%7C%7C14e50c603e664400598208dad235763f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638053424313125675%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=sddmh3HKnm78KH1y%2BWXGh63%2Fqy8FvY4X1TDKohWJ1Ng%3D&amp;reserved=0> >> >>>> >> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 9> > Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 08:13:30 -0500> > From: jpd9668 <jpd9668 at gmail.com>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Message-ID: <63875705.020a0220.7c723.105e at mx.google.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"> >> > Chris,I was very un-clear. The 95 degrees i was referring to was from> 45+ degrees on either side of the wind. Was that your point of reference as> well? I can get 45 degrees on Port tack? but have trouble getting that> close on on starboard tack.Joe DempseySent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G,> an AT&T 5G smartphone> > -------- Original message --------From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu>> Date: 11/29/22? 11:26 PM? (GMT-05:00) To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder |> 84 Rhodes 22 Joe,I do have a roller furling jib. On this particular day,> when I was experimenting, I had my 130 genoa unfurled to the upper> shrouds.ChrisOn 11/29/2022 1:13 PM, jpd9668 at gmail.com wrote:> Chris,>> Yours is much different than my experience. Until Stan instructed me how to> use the downhaul on the rudder, I had severe lee helm. Once I pulled the> downhaul tight my helm has been balanced ever since. If you're getting 95> deg. or less on point, that's pretty good. Do you have roller furling> jib?>> Joe Dempsey> S/V Respite> Deltaville, VA>> -----Original> Message-----> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On> Behalf Of Chris on LBI> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2022 11:37 AM> To: The> Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> Subject: Re:> > [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22>> It is so interesting that> to me that this topic just came up. I've been thinking about posting some> late-season observations about my Rhodes that are closely related to this> thread.>> After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be> excessive lee helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the> forward edge of my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white> rudder shown in Bob's photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to> rectify this, I changed how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than> pull it tight, I eased off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the> leading edge of the rudder close to vertical.>> I only had the opportunity> to try this twice before we had to take the boat out for the season, but in> both outings, I was able to much more easily balance the helm and was able> to tack very close to 90 degrees (something that eluded me on this boat> since we purchased her). Attached> > is a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while> sailing as close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were> about 95 degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so I> consider this a great improvement.>> Also, prior to trying this adjustment> with the rudder, we frequently had difficulty bringing the bow through the> wind; we had to be very precise with our timing of releasing sheets. I did> not have the opportunity to test the change in high wind conditions, but> she seemed to be much more responsive to a turn to windward.>> I'll> continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a way to be> sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.>> Chris>>> -------------- next part --------------> A non-text attachment was> scrubbed...> Name: IMG_4528.PNG> Type: image/png> Size: 460057 bytes> Desc:> not available> URL: <> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221129/2624e7f9/attachment.png> >>> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 10> > Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 09:51:19 -0500> > From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Message-ID: <6d06f513-d256-ca5d-0877-3e0065372fc7 at vt.edu>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed> >> > Joe,> >> > I'm not sure which tack I do better on. I'll have to try to check next> > season. I'm afraid that it might be difficult for me to know for sure> > since I am always dealing with significant tidal currents that make> > precise measurements like that nearly impossible.> >> > Chris> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 11> > Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 17:11:30 -0500> > From: Lee Kuhn <lvjkuhn at gmail.com>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Removing Gas from Fuel Line> > Message-ID:> >?????? <> CAPgvAEmLX7eK5u+y+CKO1chXfn-2HMT1WPSNuo40riptahb_fQ at mail.gmail.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"> >> > What's the easiest way to remove gas from the fuel hose?? The hose has a> > ball spring valve at both ends.? I was told not to push the valve open> with> > some type of tool because I could damage the valve.> >> > I disconnected the tank and put it in the lazarette and then reran the> hose> > into the lazarette and reconnected the hose to the tank which opened the> > valve on that end.? I then disconnected the hose from the outboard and> > held it up as high as I could (gravity) and squeezed the primer.? The> > primer pumps gas in the opposite direction than I wanted but if you> squeeze> > it hard and slow the gas will eventually drain into the tank.> >> > Seems like there must be a better way.? The gas was ethanol-free with a> > stabilizer.? Should I just leave it in the hose and hope I won't have any> > problems starting the outboard in the Spring?> >> > Lee> > 1999 Rhodes22? AT EASE> > Claytor Lake, VA> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 12> > Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 14:30:19 -0800> > From: Peter Nyberg <peter at sunnybeeches.com>> > To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Removing Gas from Fuel Line> > Message-ID: <E1p0Vat-0063j5-BP at s152.servername.online>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"> >> > Lee,> >> > It never occurred to me to worry about this.? I do empty my boat fuel> tanks into a vehicle in the fall, and I do use a stabilizer for all my boat> fuel.? But, I don't have a convenient source for ethanol-free fuel, so I> use the universal 90/10 mix.> >> > Long story short, I've never had a problem getting my outboard running> in the spring.> >> > Peter Nyberg> > Coventry, CT> > s/v Silverheels (1988/2016)> >> >> On 2022-11-30, at 17:11:30 EST, Lee Kuhn wrote:> >>> >> What's the easiest way to remove gas from the fuel hose?? The hose has> a ball> >> spring valve at both ends.? I was told not to push the valve open with> some type> >> of tool because I could damage the valve.> >>> >> I disconnected the tank and put it in the lazarette and then reran the> hose into> >> the lazarette and reconnected the hose to the tank which opened the> valve on> >> that end.? I then disconnected the hose from the outboard and held it> up as high> >> as I could (gravity) and squeezed the primer.? The primer pumps gas in> the> >> opposite direction than I wanted but if you squeeze it hard and slow> the gas> >> will eventually drain into the tank.> >>> >> Seems like there must be a better way.? The gas was ethanol-free with a> >> stabilizer.? Should I just leave it in the hose and hope I won't have> any> >> problems starting the outboard in the Spring?> >>> >> Lee> >> 1999 Rhodes22? AT EASE> >> Claytor Lake, VA> >>> >> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 13> > Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 22:34:37 +0000> > From: ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Removing Gas from Fuel Line> > Message-ID:> >?????? <> CY8PR10MB668383056F98D5A9E6BA561880159 at CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com> >> >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"> >> > Lee,> >> > As long as you push on the ball check valve with something soft, like a> piece of plastic, you are unlikely to damage it.? I always drain the gas> line at the end of the season.> >> > Roger Pihlaja> > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium> >> > Sent from my iPhone> >> >> On Nov 30, 2022, at 5:11 PM, Lee Kuhn <lvjkuhn at gmail.com> wrote:> >>> >> ?What's the easiest way to remove gas from the fuel hose?? The hose has> a> >> ball spring valve at both ends.? I was told not to push the valve open> with> >> some type of tool because I could damage the valve.> >>> >> I disconnected the tank and put it in the lazarette and then reran the> hose> >> into the lazarette and reconnected the hose to the tank which opened the> >> valve on that end.? I then disconnected the hose from the outboard and> >> held it up as high as I could (gravity) and squeezed the primer.? The> >> primer pumps gas in the opposite direction than I wanted but if you> squeeze> >> it hard and slow the gas will eventually drain into the tank.> >>> >> Seems like there must be a better way.? The gas was ethanol-free with a> >> stabilizer.? Should I just leave it in the hose and hope I won't have> any> >> problems starting the outboard in the Spring?> >>> >> Lee> >> 1999 Rhodes22? AT EASE> >> Claytor Lake, VA> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 14> > Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 21:56:55 -0500 (EST)> > From: cjlowe at sssnet.com> > To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Removing Gas from Fuel Line> > Message-ID:> >?????? <55562.24.140.30.102.1669863415.squirrel at quickpop.sssnet.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1> >> >> Lee,> >> >? I bought a replacement for my motor connection, and keep on board in> > spare parts. End of season, I put the gas tank in the bed of the truck ,> > put the spare connector on the end of the hose and stick it in a five> > gallon gas can, pump the bulb a couple times and drink a beer.> >> >> > Jerry Lowe SV Country Rhodes '86> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Lee,> >>> >> As long as you push on the ball check valve with something soft, like a> >> piece of plastic, you are unlikely to damage it.? I always drain the gas> >> line at the end of the season.> >>> >> Roger Pihlaja> >> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium> >>> >> Sent from my iPhone> >>> >>> On Nov 30, 2022, at 5:11 PM, Lee Kuhn <lvjkuhn at gmail.com> wrote:> >>>> >>> ???What's the easiest way to remove gas from the fuel hose?? The hose> >>> has a> >>> ball spring valve at both ends.? I was told not to push the valve open> >>> with> >>> some type of tool because I could damage the valve.> >>>> >>> I disconnected the tank and put it in the lazarette and then reran the> >>> hose> >>> into the lazarette and reconnected the hose to the tank which opened> >>> the> >>> valve on that end.? I then disconnected the hose from the outboard and> >>> held it up as high as I could (gravity) and squeezed the primer.? The> >>> primer pumps gas in the opposite direction than I wanted but if you> >>> squeeze> >>> it hard and slow the gas will eventually drain into the tank.> >>>> >>> Seems like there must be a better way.? The gas was ethanol-free with a> >>> stabilizer.? Should I just leave it in the hose and hope I won't have> >>> any> >>> problems starting the outboard in the Spring?> >>>> >>> Lee> >>> 1999 Rhodes22? AT EASE> >>> Claytor Lake, VA> >>> >> >> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 15> > Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2022 11:20:16 -0500> > From: Lee Kuhn <lvjkuhn at gmail.com>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Removing Gas from Fuel Line> > Message-ID:> >?????? <CAPgvAEmEw1T0F=j6vm7_B41=> v2qw5quKvjERcOc08r2D+zUFrA at mail.gmail.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"> >> > I like Roger's idea to release the ball-spring with something that won't> > cause damage.? If I place the tank on the cockpit seat I and pull the> hose> > down tight I should be able to get most of the gas out, and on me.> >> > I like Peter's idea to do nothing.? I'm really good at that.? I'll> probably> > use this method along with Jerry's idea to drink a beer.> >> > Thanks guys!> >> > Lee> >> > On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 10:02 PM <cjlowe at sssnet.com> wrote:> >> >>> Lee,> >>> >>? I bought a replacement for my motor connection, and keep on board in> >> spare parts. End of season, I put the gas tank in the bed of the truck ,> >> put the spare connector on the end of the hose and stick it in a five> >> gallon gas can, pump the bulb a couple times and drink a beer.> >>> >>> >> Jerry Lowe SV Country Rhodes '86> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> Lee,> >>>> >>> As long as you push on the ball check valve with something soft, like a> >>> piece of plastic, you are unlikely to damage it.? I always drain the> gas> >>> line at the end of the season.> >>>> >>> Roger Pihlaja> >>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium> >>>> >>> Sent from my iPhone> >>>> >>>> On Nov 30, 2022, at 5:11 PM, Lee Kuhn <lvjkuhn at gmail.com> wrote:> >>>>> >>>> ?What's the easiest way to remove gas from the fuel hose?? The hose> >>>> has a> >>>> ball spring valve at both ends.? I was told not to push the valve open> >>>> with> >>>> some type of tool because I could damage the valve.> >>>>> >>>> I disconnected the tank and put it in the lazarette and then reran the> >>>> hose> >>>> into the lazarette and reconnected the hose to the tank which opened> >>>> the> >>>> valve on that end.? I then disconnected the hose from the outboard and> >>>> held it up as high as I could (gravity) and squeezed the primer.? The> >>>> primer pumps gas in the opposite direction than I wanted but if you> >>>> squeeze> >>>> it hard and slow the gas will eventually drain into the tank.> >>>>> >>>> Seems like there must be a better way.? The gas was ethanol-free with> a> >>>> stabilizer.? Should I just leave it in the hose and hope I won't have> >>>> any> >>>> problems starting the outboard in the Spring?> >>>>> >>>> Lee> >>>> 1999 Rhodes22? AT EASE> >>>> Claytor Lake, VA> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 16> > Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2022 09:34:31 -0500> > From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Message-ID: <9d4c38a9-5e00-a0a0-7528-73c2e3aa8422 at vt.edu>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"> >> > I was able to take a look at the rudder yesterday. In hindsight, I can't> > believe that it took me 5 full seasons of sailing to recognize that this> > was a potential problem. Attached are three photos. The first gives a> > sense of how far the rudder swings under the hull when the down-haul is> > used to pull the rudder against the "stop".? In the second photo I have> > placed a white piece of plastic vertically to make more obvious how much> > past vertical the rudder is when it is against the stop. The forward> > edge of the white plastic is parallel with the forward edge of the> > rudder head. The third photo shows the "stop" which is the forward side> > of the rudder head (as Roger stated).> >> > As Roger predicted in his previous email, it appears that the mechanical> > variations of this particular rudder and rudder head allow the rudder to> > rotate too far forward. As he suggested, I will experiment with a shim> > to correct this. If this does not work out easily, I will place a mark> > on the up-haul so that I know how far to deploy it to keep the rudder> > from over-rotating, and then tension the down-haul against it.> >> > Chris> > -------------- next part --------------> > A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> > Name: IMG_4808.jpg> > Type: image/jpeg> > Size: 77096 bytes> > Desc: not available> > URL: <> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment.jpg> >> > -------------- next part --------------> > A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> > Name: IMG_4810.jpg> > Type: image/jpeg> > Size: 65366 bytes> > Desc: not available> > URL: <> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment-0001.jpg> >> > -------------- next part --------------> > A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> > Name: IMG_4811.jpg> > Type: image/jpeg> > Size: 81121 bytes> > Desc: not available> > URL: <> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment-0002.jpg> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 17> > Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2022 10:14:48 -0500> > From: Mary Lou Troy <mtroy at atlanticbb.net>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Message-ID: <01193a8d-1d85-3485-05a1-959ac2b949a7 at atlanticbb.net>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed> >> > I have not been following this discussion closely and I am relying on> > memory here so take these statements with a grain of salt.> >> > When we purchased Fretless (recycled) in 1998 we had a number of> > discussions with Stan about rigging, helm and the rudder. He was quite> > clear that the proper position for the rudder underway was pulled> > forward of vertical so it was somewhat under the hull. Fred and I both> > remember the boat as being somewhat sluggish and less responsive if the> > rudder was not pulled far enough forward. Helm was also affected by the> > position of the rudder.> >> > I'll keep an eye out the results of your testing as I suppose it is> > indeed possible to have it too far forward if the fittings have changed> > but Stan set up our boat and we always pulled it as far forward as it> > would go.> >> > When doing your tests, make sure all the other variables are the same -> > for example the boat is very affected, usually positively, by weight in> > the bow. As our water tank was nearly centerline, we usually had it> > filled more than half way.> >> > All our best,> > Mary Lou (and Fred)> > ex Rhodes 22> > now Rosborough RF-246? Tara> > Rock Hall, MD> >> > On 12/4/2022 9:34 AM, Chris on LBI wrote:> >> I was able to take a look at the rudder yesterday. In hindsight, I> >> can't believe that it took me 5 full seasons of sailing to recognize> >> that this was a potential problem. Attached are three photos. The> >> first gives a sense of how far the rudder swings under the hull when> >> the down-haul is used to pull the rudder against the "stop". In the> >> second photo I have placed a white piece of plastic vertically to make> >> more obvious how much past vertical the rudder is when it is against> >> the stop. The forward edge of the white plastic is parallel with the> >> forward edge of the rudder head. The third photo shows the "stop"> >> which is the forward side of the rudder head (as Roger stated).> >>> >> As Roger predicted in his previous email, it appears that the> >> mechanical variations of this particular rudder and rudder head allow> >> the rudder to rotate too far forward. As he suggested, I will> >> experiment with a shim to correct this. If this does not work out> >> easily, I will place a mark on the up-haul so that I know how far to> >> deploy it to keep the rudder from over-rotating, and then tension the> >> down-haul against it.> >>> >> Chris> >> -------------- next part --------------> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> >> Name: IMG_4808.jpg> >> Type: image/jpeg> >> Size: 77096 bytes> >> Desc: not available> >> URL:> >> <> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment.jpg> >> >> -------------- next part --------------> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> >> Name: IMG_4810.jpg> >> Type: image/jpeg> >> Size: 65366 bytes> >> Desc: not available> >> URL:> >> <> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment-0001.jpg> >> >> -------------- next part --------------> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> >> Name: IMG_4811.jpg> >> Type: image/jpeg> >> Size: 81121 bytes> >> Desc: not available> >> URL:> >> <> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment-0002.jpg> >> >> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 18> > Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2022 10:38:22 -0500> > From: Todd Tavares <tavares0947 at gmail.com>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Message-ID:> >?????? <CAB-twMN_dJb0-eHOQC9j3P_2TPx5a=EjrHrOfCMLguGGZLiq=> A at mail.gmail.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"> >> > Chris,> > Rather than trying to mess around with making and securing a shim, would> it> > be easier to re-fabricate that entire forward vertical blocking between> the> > rudderhead faces?> >> > Todd T> >> > On Sun, Dec 4, 2022, 9:34 AM Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu> wrote:> >> >> I was able to take a look at the rudder yesterday. In hindsight, I can't> >> believe that it took me 5 full seasons of sailing to recognize that this> >> was a potential problem. Attached are three photos. The first gives a> >> sense of how far the rudder swings under the hull when the down-haul is> >> used to pull the rudder against the "stop".? In the second photo I have> >> placed a white piece of plastic vertically to make more obvious how much> >> past vertical the rudder is when it is against the stop. The forward> >> edge of the white plastic is parallel with the forward edge of the> >> rudder head. The third photo shows the "stop" which is the forward side> >> of the rudder head (as Roger stated).> >>> >> As Roger predicted in his previous email, it appears that the mechanical> >> variations of this particular rudder and rudder head allow the rudder to> >> rotate too far forward. As he suggested, I will experiment with a shim> >> to correct this. If this does not work out easily, I will place a mark> >> on the up-haul so that I know how far to deploy it to keep the rudder> >> from over-rotating, and then tension the down-haul against it.> >>> >> Chris> >> -------------- next part --------------> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> >> Name: IMG_4808.jpg> >> Type: image/jpeg> >> Size: 77096 bytes> >> Desc: not available> >> URL: <> >>> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment.jpg> >>>> >> -------------- next part --------------> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> >> Name: IMG_4810.jpg> >> Type: image/jpeg> >> Size: 65366 bytes> >> Desc: not available> >> URL: <> >>> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment-0001.jpg> >>>> >> -------------- next part --------------> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> >> Name: IMG_4811.jpg> >> Type: image/jpeg> >> Size: 81121 bytes> >> Desc: not available> >> URL: <> >>> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment-0002.jpg> >>>> >>> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Subject: Digest Footer> >> > _______________________________________________> > Rhodes22-list mailing list> > Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> > http://rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > End of Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 4477, Issue 1> > **********************************************>>

From cknell at vt.edu  Sun Dec  4 14:56:00 2022
From: cknell at vt.edu (Chris on LBI)
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2022 14:56:00 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
In-Reply-To: <01193a8d-1d85-3485-05a1-959ac2b949a7@atlanticbb.net>
References: <63821e4f.020a0220.9bd25.39b5@mx.google.com>
 <c5674348-daad-0878-9b7e-814b9df175c8@vt.edu>
 <000201d9041e$513b6fc0$f3b24f40$@gmail.com>
 <CY8PR10MB6683D4528620D2943A4CEFFF80129@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
 <f0d18634-48d9-7382-498d-3774198dc6de@vt.edu>
 <9d4c38a9-5e00-a0a0-7528-73c2e3aa8422@vt.edu>
 <01193a8d-1d85-3485-05a1-959ac2b949a7@atlanticbb.net>
Message-ID: <ea01eb37-828c-772d-629d-f65a0a858c70@vt.edu>

Thank you Mary Lou (and Fred). That is really interesting. Especially 
since some of the R-22 rudders (at least Roger's and one of Bob's) don't 
go past vertical. I have to wonder if a change to some other component 
of the boat led to a change in the way Stan was configuring the rudder.

This thread was started by Bob who noticed that the two rudders/heads 
that he owns are different. It would be really interesting to know what 
motivated the change at the factory. My rudder is on an '86 that was 
reconditioned in '07.

I think my experimenting next season will involve, with the rudder 
forward, sailing as hard a beat as possible and tacking a few times, 
then setting the rudder vertical and, while still beating, tacking a few 
more times while using the tracking app on my phone to record the 
results. I'll then be able to analyze the tacking angles when I get 
home. My hypothesis is that the tacking angle will be tighter with a 
vertical rudder.

As a thought experiment, if I were to move the rudder forward of the 
transom, the bow would tend to want to rotate more to leeward (resulting 
in lee helm). Conversely, if I were to move the rudder aft of the 
transom, the tendency would be for the bow to rotate to windward 
(weather helm). If the rudder were too far aft of the transom, I'd have 
to steer too hard to lee, probably making the boat feel sluggish since 
the rudder would be acting as a brake.

Chris



From cknell at vt.edu  Sun Dec  4 16:46:59 2022
From: cknell at vt.edu (Chris on LBI)
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2022 16:46:59 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
In-Reply-To: <CAB-twMN_dJb0-eHOQC9j3P_2TPx5a=EjrHrOfCMLguGGZLiq=A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <63821e4f.020a0220.9bd25.39b5@mx.google.com>
 <c5674348-daad-0878-9b7e-814b9df175c8@vt.edu>
 <000201d9041e$513b6fc0$f3b24f40$@gmail.com>
 <CY8PR10MB6683D4528620D2943A4CEFFF80129@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
 <f0d18634-48d9-7382-498d-3774198dc6de@vt.edu>
 <9d4c38a9-5e00-a0a0-7528-73c2e3aa8422@vt.edu>
 <CAB-twMN_dJb0-eHOQC9j3P_2TPx5a=EjrHrOfCMLguGGZLiq=A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7f1370ba-8bc4-69b6-cd58-1ebc3bb27a1a@vt.edu>

Todd,

In thinking about it further, I'll probably not put a stop in place ... 
at least not for a full season. I still want to convince myself that any 
permanent change would be worthwhile. There is a lot of flexibility in 
using the up and down hauls to control the angle of the rudder.

Chris


From roger_pihlaja at msn.com  Mon Dec  5 08:19:27 2022
From: roger_pihlaja at msn.com (ROGER PIHLAJA)
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2022 13:19:27 +0000
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
In-Reply-To: <7f1370ba-8bc4-69b6-cd58-1ebc3bb27a1a@vt.edu>
References: <63821e4f.020a0220.9bd25.39b5@mx.google.com>
 <c5674348-daad-0878-9b7e-814b9df175c8@vt.edu>
 <000201d9041e$513b6fc0$f3b24f40$@gmail.com>
 <CY8PR10MB6683D4528620D2943A4CEFFF80129@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
 <f0d18634-48d9-7382-498d-3774198dc6de@vt.edu>
 <9d4c38a9-5e00-a0a0-7528-73c2e3aa8422@vt.edu>
 <CAB-twMN_dJb0-eHOQC9j3P_2TPx5a=EjrHrOfCMLguGGZLiq=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <7f1370ba-8bc4-69b6-cd58-1ebc3bb27a1a@vt.edu>
Message-ID: <CY8PR10MB6683BB3DF1A51EFF939EBA5D80189@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Chris,

There were a couple of very significant changes in that time period.  The IMF mainsail became available and very popular.  The centerboard was changed from the original high aspect ratio hydrofoil blade to the present ?Diamond Board?.  Both changes would tend to increase weather helm.  I?m not convinced a few degrees of forward tilt on the rudder blade would fix these issues.  But, the rudder blade has a lot of wetted surface area to generate side force and its moment arm relative to the hull?s center of lateral resistance is several feet.  So, small changes in the rudder blade tilt angle might be noticeable in the weather helm/lee helm balance.

Two questions, do you have the IMF mainsail and do you have the Diamond Board?  S/V Dynamic Equilibrium has a conventional mainsail and the older style blade centerboard.  As my thesis advisor in grad school always admonished me, ?Theory guides; but, the experiment decides.?  I can always be persuaded by good data.  Unfortunately, Sanford Lake is not scheduled to be refilled until the summer of 2024.  So, I don?t have a good venue to run this experiment.

Roger Pihlaja
S/V Dynamic Equilibrium 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 4, 2022, at 4:47 PM, Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu> wrote:
> 
> ?Todd,
> 
> In thinking about it further, I'll probably not put a stop in place ... at least not for a full season. I still want to convince myself that any permanent change would be worthwhile. There is a lot of flexibility in using the up and down hauls to control the angle of the rudder.
> 
> Chris
> 

From cknell at vt.edu  Mon Dec  5 10:51:34 2022
From: cknell at vt.edu (Chris on LBI)
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2022 10:51:34 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
In-Reply-To: <CY8PR10MB6683BB3DF1A51EFF939EBA5D80189@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
References: <63821e4f.020a0220.9bd25.39b5@mx.google.com>
 <c5674348-daad-0878-9b7e-814b9df175c8@vt.edu>
 <000201d9041e$513b6fc0$f3b24f40$@gmail.com>
 <CY8PR10MB6683D4528620D2943A4CEFFF80129@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
 <f0d18634-48d9-7382-498d-3774198dc6de@vt.edu>
 <9d4c38a9-5e00-a0a0-7528-73c2e3aa8422@vt.edu>
 <CAB-twMN_dJb0-eHOQC9j3P_2TPx5a=EjrHrOfCMLguGGZLiq=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <7f1370ba-8bc4-69b6-cd58-1ebc3bb27a1a@vt.edu>
 <CY8PR10MB6683BB3DF1A51EFF939EBA5D80189@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <f0328b66-295b-bdf5-193c-54bd81fafda9@vt.edu>

Roger,

I have the IMF mainsail and the old-style blade centerboard.

I, too, was thinking about that relatively large moment arm of the 
rudder blade. The resulting leverage would magnify slight changes at the 
rudder, which, in combination with the relatively flat bottom of the 
R-22 hull, would make the force applied at the rudder all the more 
effective (if there were more of a keel, slight changes in the rudder 
would have much less an overall effect).

On a related note:
I also sail a Laser (which has a very flat bottom). A few years ago I 
discovered that I can steer the Laser with the daggerboard. I lock the 
tiller in a central position and ease the daggerboard up to fall off, 
down to head up. A change of an inch or so in depth is enough to change 
the heading a few degrees. This works best when sailing anywhere from a 
tight reach to a hard beat.

I spent a good amount of time this past season working to balance the 
R-22 helm with sail adjustments. Next season I'm going to start 
balancing helm with the rudder up-haul. I've never been so anxious for 
the season to start (I'll also learn if I put my centerboard back 
together properly).

Chris



From jpd9668 at gmail.com  Mon Dec  5 10:56:40 2022
From: jpd9668 at gmail.com (jpd9668)
Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2022 10:56:40 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
In-Reply-To: <01193a8d-1d85-3485-05a1-959ac2b949a7@atlanticbb.net>
Message-ID: <638e14ca.920a0220.119d1.9bdc@mx.google.com>

The photos I posted last week show that the leading edge of the rudder is forward of vertical when in the "locked down" position, in accordance with Stan's instructions. The photo may be deceptive because of the counter of the transom. Page 19 of the Rhodes Manual states "With the rudder blade down and slightly forward (as far as it can possibly go), The tiller has such a light "power steering" touch, there is a tendency..? to over steer."?Joe DempseyS/V RespiteDeltaville, VASent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: Mary Lou Troy <mtroy at atlanticbb.net> Date: 12/4/22  10:15 AM  (GMT-05:00) To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 I have not been following this discussion closely and I am relying on memory here so take these statements with a grain of salt.When we purchased Fretless (recycled) in 1998 we had a number of discussions with Stan about rigging, helm and the rudder. He was quite clear that the proper position for the rudder underway was pulled forward of vertical so it was somewhat under the hull. Fred and I both remember the boat as being somewhat sluggish and less responsive if the rudder was not pulled far enough forward. Helm was also affected by the position of the rudder.I'll keep an eye out the results of your testing as I suppose it is indeed possible to have it too far forward if the fittings have changed but Stan set up our boat and we always pulled it as far forward as it would go.When doing your tests, make sure all the other variables are the same - for example the boat is very affected, usually positively, by weight in the bow. As our water tank was nearly centerline, we usually had it filled more than half way.All our best,Mary Lou (and Fred)ex Rhodes 22now Rosborough RF-246? TaraRock Hall, MDOn 12/4/2022 9:34 AM, Chris on LBI wrote:> I was able to take a look at the rudder yesterday. In hindsight, I > can't believe that it took me 5 full seasons of sailing to recognize > that this was a potential problem. Attached are three photos. The > first gives a sense of how far the rudder swings under the hull when > the down-haul is used to pull the rudder against the "stop". In the > second photo I have placed a white piece of plastic vertically to make > more obvious how much past vertical the rudder is when it is against > the stop. The forward edge of the white plastic is parallel with the > forward edge of the rudder head. The third photo shows the "stop" > which is the forward side of the rudder head (as Roger stated).>> As Roger predicted in his previous email, it appears that the > mechanical variations of this particular rudder and rudder head allow > the rudder to rotate too far forward. As he suggested, I will > experiment with a shim to correct this. If this does not work out > easily, I will place a mark on the up-haul so that I know how far to > deploy it to keep the rudder from over-rotating, and then tension the > down-haul against it.>> Chris> -------------- next part --------------> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> Name: IMG_4808.jpg> Type: image/jpeg> Size: 77096 bytes> Desc: not available> URL: > <http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment.jpg>> -------------- next part --------------> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> Name: IMG_4810.jpg> Type: image/jpeg> Size: 65366 bytes> Desc: not available> URL: > <http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment-0001.jpg>> -------------- next part --------------> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> Name: IMG_4811.jpg> Type: image/jpeg> Size: 81121 bytes> Desc: not available> URL: > <http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment-0002.jpg>

From roger_pihlaja at msn.com  Mon Dec  5 12:37:58 2022
From: roger_pihlaja at msn.com (ROGER PIHLAJA)
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2022 17:37:58 +0000
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
In-Reply-To: <f0328b66-295b-bdf5-193c-54bd81fafda9@vt.edu>
References: <63821e4f.020a0220.9bd25.39b5@mx.google.com>
 <c5674348-daad-0878-9b7e-814b9df175c8@vt.edu>
 <000201d9041e$513b6fc0$f3b24f40$@gmail.com>
 <CY8PR10MB6683D4528620D2943A4CEFFF80129@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
 <f0d18634-48d9-7382-498d-3774198dc6de@vt.edu>
 <9d4c38a9-5e00-a0a0-7528-73c2e3aa8422@vt.edu>
 <CAB-twMN_dJb0-eHOQC9j3P_2TPx5a=EjrHrOfCMLguGGZLiq=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <7f1370ba-8bc4-69b6-cd58-1ebc3bb27a1a@vt.edu>
 <CY8PR10MB6683BB3DF1A51EFF939EBA5D80189@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
 <f0328b66-295b-bdf5-193c-54bd81fafda9@vt.edu>
Message-ID: <CY8PR10MB6683566EFE0A80AE89CA4D7480189@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>

Chris,

There were a few years where the IMF mainsail was available; but, the centerboard was the old blade style.  Your boat appears to be one of those.  We would need Stan to say for sure.  But, I think the Diamond Board was introduced to correct the helm balance when the IMF mainsail became so popular.  You may find you need the slight forward tilt of the rudder blade.  I?ve never seen this topic discussed before.

Roger Pihlaja
S/V Dynamic Equilibrium

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 5, 2022, at 10:51 AM, Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu> wrote:
> 
> ?Roger,
> 
> I have the IMF mainsail and the old-style blade centerboard.
> 
> I, too, was thinking about that relatively large moment arm of the rudder blade. The resulting leverage would magnify slight changes at the rudder, which, in combination with the relatively flat bottom of the R-22 hull, would make the force applied at the rudder all the more effective (if there were more of a keel, slight changes in the rudder would have much less an overall effect).
> 
> On a related note:
> I also sail a Laser (which has a very flat bottom). A few years ago I discovered that I can steer the Laser with the daggerboard. I lock the tiller in a central position and ease the daggerboard up to fall off, down to head up. A change of an inch or so in depth is enough to change the heading a few degrees. This works best when sailing anywhere from a tight reach to a hard beat.
> 
> I spent a good amount of time this past season working to balance the R-22 helm with sail adjustments. Next season I'm going to start balancing helm with the rudder up-haul. I've never been so anxious for the season to start (I'll also learn if I put my centerboard back together properly).
> 
> Chris
> 
> 

From michael.4591 at gmail.com  Thu Dec  8 09:57:10 2022
From: michael.4591 at gmail.com (Michael Corley)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2022 09:57:10 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Removing Gas from Fuel Line
In-Reply-To: <CAPgvAEmEw1T0F=j6vm7_B41=v2qw5quKvjERcOc08r2D+zUFrA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPgvAEmLX7eK5u+y+CKO1chXfn-2HMT1WPSNuo40riptahb_fQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CY8PR10MB668383056F98D5A9E6BA561880159@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
 <55562.24.140.30.102.1669863415.squirrel@quickpop.sssnet.com>
 <CAPgvAEmEw1T0F=j6vm7_B41=v2qw5quKvjERcOc08r2D+zUFrA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACSd1jJVZa5aQx_6-vxtrUJ9rn7kGZa6NP6NoYm6-CLqu_M=Aw@mail.gmail.com>

I disconnect the fuel line from the tank, but leave it connected to the
motor and run the engine till it sputters out.

-Mike
S/V Ranger
Hampton Roads

On Thu, Dec 1, 2022 at 11:20 AM Lee Kuhn <lvjkuhn at gmail.com> wrote:

> I like Roger's idea to release the ball-spring with something that won't
> cause damage.  If I place the tank on the cockpit seat I and pull the hose
> down tight I should be able to get most of the gas out, and on me.
>
> I like Peter's idea to do nothing.  I'm really good at that.  I'll probably
> use this method along with Jerry's idea to drink a beer.
>
> Thanks guys!
>
> Lee
>
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 10:02 PM <cjlowe at sssnet.com> wrote:
>
> > >Lee,
> >
> >   I bought a replacement for my motor connection, and keep on board in
> > spare parts. End of season, I put the gas tank in the bed of the truck ,
> > put the spare connector on the end of the hose and stick it in a five
> > gallon gas can, pump the bulb a couple times and drink a beer.
> >
> >
> > Jerry Lowe SV Country Rhodes '86
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Lee,
> > >
> > > As long as you push on the ball check valve with something soft, like a
> > > piece of plastic, you are unlikely to damage it.  I always drain the
> gas
> > > line at the end of the season.
> > >
> > > Roger Pihlaja
> > > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > >> On Nov 30, 2022, at 5:11 PM, Lee Kuhn <lvjkuhn at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> ?What's the easiest way to remove gas from the fuel hose?  The hose
> > >> has a
> > >> ball spring valve at both ends.  I was told not to push the valve open
> > >> with
> > >> some type of tool because I could damage the valve.
> > >>
> > >> I disconnected the tank and put it in the lazarette and then reran the
> > >> hose
> > >> into the lazarette and reconnected the hose to the tank which opened
> > >> the
> > >> valve on that end.  I then disconnected the hose from the outboard and
> > >> held it up as high as I could (gravity) and squeezed the primer.  The
> > >> primer pumps gas in the opposite direction than I wanted but if you
> > >> squeeze
> > >> it hard and slow the gas will eventually drain into the tank.
> > >>
> > >> Seems like there must be a better way.  The gas was ethanol-free with
> a
> > >> stabilizer.  Should I just leave it in the hose and hope I won't have
> > >> any
> > >> problems starting the outboard in the Spring?
> > >>
> > >> Lee
> > >> 1999 Rhodes22  AT EASE
> > >> Claytor Lake, VA
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>

From mwhornblower at gmail.com  Thu Dec  8 10:23:46 2022
From: mwhornblower at gmail.com (Matt Wilson)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2022 09:23:46 -0600
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Winterizing my 4 stroke
Message-ID: <CANbEFCsWSseJOXnm2Lb8G4rOZe3U=3rXWqJmhECcb5wkwC37LQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everyone,

I have a brand new Honda 5HP 4 stroke that has been used very lightly for
just one season.  I shut off the fuel supply and ran out the gas at the end
of the season.  It is stored in my heated basement and will sit idle for
6mos.  Do I need to do a full winterizing or can I get away with just
changing the oil next Spring?   Appreciate your help as always.

Matt Wilson
Hornblower II
White Bear Lake, MN

From gstewart.gm at gmail.com  Thu Dec  8 10:29:14 2022
From: gstewart.gm at gmail.com (Graham Stewart)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2022 10:29:14 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Winterizing my 4 stroke
In-Reply-To: <CANbEFCsWSseJOXnm2Lb8G4rOZe3U=3rXWqJmhECcb5wkwC37LQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANbEFCsWSseJOXnm2Lb8G4rOZe3U=3rXWqJmhECcb5wkwC37LQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACdaeT6-oh_58VNMfndZSczTV6Yjp174PM9P88+Zm4GJOvxzCg@mail.gmail.com>

I prefer to change the gear oil in the fall. That way I can inspect the oil
for water and replace the oil that has become acidic. I also fog the
cylinders. In the spring she is ready to go.

On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 10:24 AM Matt Wilson <mwhornblower at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> I have a brand new Honda 5HP 4 stroke that has been used very lightly for
> just one season.  I shut off the fuel supply and ran out the gas at the end
> of the season.  It is stored in my heated basement and will sit idle for
> 6mos.  Do I need to do a full winterizing or can I get away with just
> changing the oil next Spring?   Appreciate your help as always.
>
> Matt Wilson
> Hornblower II
> White Bear Lake, MN
>


-- 
Graham Stewart
Agile 76

From roger_pihlaja at msn.com  Thu Dec  8 11:54:11 2022
From: roger_pihlaja at msn.com (ROGER PIHLAJA)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2022 16:54:11 +0000
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Winterizing my 4 stroke
In-Reply-To: <CACdaeT6-oh_58VNMfndZSczTV6Yjp174PM9P88+Zm4GJOvxzCg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACdaeT6-oh_58VNMfndZSczTV6Yjp174PM9P88+Zm4GJOvxzCg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CY8PR10MB66832143C97DF517E21FC759801D9@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Matt,

I usually disconnect the fuel line and run the engine until the carburetor runs dry.  Then, while the engine is still warm, I change the engine oil and gearbox oil.  Then, I pull the spark plugs and squirt some engine oil into each cylinder.  Turn the engine over by hand with the spark plugs out to distribute the oil and then reinstall the spark plugs.  If the engine has been used in saltwater, flush the cooling passages with fresh water and let it drain out.  That?s about all you need to do.

Roger Pihlaja
S/V Dynamic Equilibrium 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 8, 2022, at 10:29 AM, Graham Stewart <gstewart.gm at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?I prefer to change the gear oil in the fall. That way I can inspect the oil
> for water and replace the oil that has become acidic. I also fog the
> cylinders. In the spring she is ready to go.
> 
>> On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 10:24 AM Matt Wilson <mwhornblower at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello everyone,
>> 
>> I have a brand new Honda 5HP 4 stroke that has been used very lightly for
>> just one season.  I shut off the fuel supply and ran out the gas at the end
>> of the season.  It is stored in my heated basement and will sit idle for
>> 6mos.  Do I need to do a full winterizing or can I get away with just
>> changing the oil next Spring?   Appreciate your help as always.
>> 
>> Matt Wilson
>> Hornblower II
>> White Bear Lake, MN
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Graham Stewart
> Agile 76

From jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com  Thu Dec  8 12:04:51 2022
From: jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com (Jesse Shumaker)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2022 11:04:51 -0600
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Winterizing my 4 stroke
In-Reply-To: <CY8PR10MB66832143C97DF517E21FC759801D9@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CACdaeT6-oh_58VNMfndZSczTV6Yjp174PM9P88+Zm4GJOvxzCg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CY8PR10MB66832143C97DF517E21FC759801D9@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAMc-3fqks9S07UXw-q5WA_qzRrZkOnRs-7i5XWLNUmHmYuutUQ@mail.gmail.com>

While on the topic of end of season maintenance, I'm curious how frequently
people change their impeller.

Jesse Shumaker
S/V Zephyr

On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 10:54 AM ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com> wrote:

> Hi Matt,
>
> I usually disconnect the fuel line and run the engine until the carburetor
> runs dry.  Then, while the engine is still warm, I change the engine oil
> and gearbox oil.  Then, I pull the spark plugs and squirt some engine oil
> into each cylinder.  Turn the engine over by hand with the spark plugs out
> to distribute the oil and then reinstall the spark plugs.  If the engine
> has been used in saltwater, flush the cooling passages with fresh water and
> let it drain out.  That?s about all you need to do.
>
> Roger Pihlaja
> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>
>

From roger_pihlaja at msn.com  Thu Dec  8 12:30:38 2022
From: roger_pihlaja at msn.com (ROGER PIHLAJA)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2022 17:30:38 +0000
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Winterizing my 4 stroke
In-Reply-To: <CAMc-3fqks9S07UXw-q5WA_qzRrZkOnRs-7i5XWLNUmHmYuutUQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACdaeT6-oh_58VNMfndZSczTV6Yjp174PM9P88+Zm4GJOvxzCg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CY8PR10MB66832143C97DF517E21FC759801D9@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAMc-3fqks9S07UXw-q5WA_qzRrZkOnRs-7i5XWLNUmHmYuutUQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CY8PR10MB66836691DE373F169CED026B801D9@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>

Jessie,

I keep a spare water pump impeller + the gasket on board.  My Honda 8 outboard is a 1996 and has only needed 1 impeller in all those years.  Note, I also keep spare ignition black boxes, a coil, and spark plugs on board although I?ve never needed them.

Roger Pihlaja
S/V Dynamic Equilibrium 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 8, 2022, at 12:05 PM, Jesse Shumaker <jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?While on the topic of end of season maintenance, I'm curious how frequently
> people change their impeller.
> 
> Jesse Shumaker
> S/V Zephyr
> 
>> On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 10:54 AM ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Matt,
>> 
>> I usually disconnect the fuel line and run the engine until the carburetor
>> runs dry.  Then, while the engine is still warm, I change the engine oil
>> and gearbox oil.  Then, I pull the spark plugs and squirt some engine oil
>> into each cylinder.  Turn the engine over by hand with the spark plugs out
>> to distribute the oil and then reinstall the spark plugs.  If the engine
>> has been used in saltwater, flush the cooling passages with fresh water and
>> let it drain out.  That?s about all you need to do.
>> 
>> Roger Pihlaja
>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>> 
>> 

From jpd9668 at gmail.com  Thu Dec  8 15:52:32 2022
From: jpd9668 at gmail.com (jpd9668 at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2022 15:52:32 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Winterizing my 4 stroke
In-Reply-To: <CANbEFCsWSseJOXnm2Lb8G4rOZe3U=3rXWqJmhECcb5wkwC37LQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANbEFCsWSseJOXnm2Lb8G4rOZe3U=3rXWqJmhECcb5wkwC37LQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <019801d90b47$05fb7750$11f265f0$@gmail.com>

Matt,
All of the recommendations given are good, sound advice. Two things that are paramount: Do not run ethanol fuel in your outboard, inboard (or anything else if you can help it!). I use ethanol free ("no corn") and also add StaBil 360. (2). Flush your engine with fresh water every time you go out. Changing the oil at the end of the season is best, but if you're keeping yours indoors, you can get away with waiting until Spring. Same for your lower unit.  I'd at least fog your intake and squirt some oil in the cylinder.  I run my engine dry of fuel which you can do while its running out the fuel in the lines.

Good luck,

Joe Dempsey
S/V Respite
Deltaville, VA 

-----Original Message-----
From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of Matt Wilson
Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2022 10:24 AM
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Winterizing my 4 stroke

Hello everyone,

I have a brand new Honda 5HP 4 stroke that has been used very lightly for just one season.  I shut off the fuel supply and ran out the gas at the end of the season.  It is stored in my heated basement and will sit idle for 6mos.  Do I need to do a full winterizing or can I get away with just
changing the oil next Spring?   Appreciate your help as always.

Matt Wilson
Hornblower II
White Bear Lake, MN


From mwhornblower at gmail.com  Thu Dec  8 16:01:55 2022
From: mwhornblower at gmail.com (Matt Wilson)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2022 15:01:55 -0600
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Winterizing my 4 stroke
In-Reply-To: <019801d90b47$05fb7750$11f265f0$@gmail.com>
References: <CANbEFCsWSseJOXnm2Lb8G4rOZe3U=3rXWqJmhECcb5wkwC37LQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <019801d90b47$05fb7750$11f265f0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANbEFCtNC0WcpSm7N-QRsakCqzLiiRaq7Ja72DcaVz6kMrXKzg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks everyone!

Joe, do I need to flush the engine regularly even in fresh water?
Matt

On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 2:52 PM <jpd9668 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Matt,
> All of the recommendations given are good, sound advice. Two things that
> are paramount: Do not run ethanol fuel in your outboard, inboard (or
> anything else if you can help it!). I use ethanol free ("no corn") and also
> add StaBil 360. (2). Flush your engine with fresh water every time you go
> out. Changing the oil at the end of the season is best, but if you're
> keeping yours indoors, you can get away with waiting until Spring. Same for
> your lower unit.  I'd at least fog your intake and squirt some oil in the
> cylinder.  I run my engine dry of fuel which you can do while its running
> out the fuel in the lines.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Joe Dempsey
> S/V Respite
> Deltaville, VA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of
> Matt Wilson
> Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2022 10:24 AM
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Winterizing my 4 stroke
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I have a brand new Honda 5HP 4 stroke that has been used very lightly for
> just one season.  I shut off the fuel supply and ran out the gas at the end
> of the season.  It is stored in my heated basement and will sit idle for
> 6mos.  Do I need to do a full winterizing or can I get away with just
> changing the oil next Spring?   Appreciate your help as always.
>
> Matt Wilson
> Hornblower II
> White Bear Lake, MN
>
>

From jpd9668 at gmail.com  Thu Dec  8 16:03:38 2022
From: jpd9668 at gmail.com (jpd9668 at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2022 16:03:38 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] S/V RESPITE IS FOR SALE
Message-ID: <019901d90b48$919a0000$b4ce0000$@gmail.com>

There comes a time in every sailor's life that he faces the reality that he
can no longer serve as captain and crew of his vessel. That time has finally
come for me and The Admiral.  We are selling S/V Respite, 1989 Factory
recycled in 2005, interior re-built 2019, ALMOST NEW CONDITION! Was a
candidate for the GBI exhibit at the Annapolis Boat Show. New Suzuki 9.9 EFI
4 stroke engine in 2017. (less than 80 hours). Includes 2010 Triad Trailer
(less than 2000 miles, never submerged!)  Asking $21,500. We have thoroughly
enjoyed the Rhodes and believe it to be one of the best thought out small
boat sailing designs. Not a day on her has gone by without her receiving
compliments from passersby in our marina. It is a testament to Stan and GBI
for his vision of building and continually improving a design that has
continued for fifty plus years. The fervent loyalty of members of the fleet
on this List is also a testament to the longevity of the manufacturing and
design of this fine sailing vessel. I will continue to be a contributor the
The List in the future. Several photos are attached.  A complete list of
options and features will be posted at a future date. Serious inquires may
be addressed to me offline at jpd9668atgmail.com.

 

Joe Dempsey

S/V Respite

Deltaville, VA

 

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From jpd9668 at gmail.com  Thu Dec  8 16:07:33 2022
From: jpd9668 at gmail.com (jpd9668 at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2022 16:07:33 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Winterizing my 4 stroke
In-Reply-To: <CANbEFCtNC0WcpSm7N-QRsakCqzLiiRaq7Ja72DcaVz6kMrXKzg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANbEFCsWSseJOXnm2Lb8G4rOZe3U=3rXWqJmhECcb5wkwC37LQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <019801d90b47$05fb7750$11f265f0$@gmail.com>
 <CANbEFCtNC0WcpSm7N-QRsakCqzLiiRaq7Ja72DcaVz6kMrXKzg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <01a101d90b49$1e988350$5bc989f0$@gmail.com>

If you're in fresh water, probably not, but I adhere to the old adage "Some is good, more is better"!

-----Original Message-----
From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of Matt Wilson
Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2022 4:02 PM
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Winterizing my 4 stroke

Thanks everyone!

Joe, do I need to flush the engine regularly even in fresh water?
Matt

On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 2:52 PM <jpd9668 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Matt,
> All of the recommendations given are good, sound advice. Two things 
> that are paramount: Do not run ethanol fuel in your outboard, inboard 
> (or anything else if you can help it!). I use ethanol free ("no corn") 
> and also add StaBil 360. (2). Flush your engine with fresh water every 
> time you go out. Changing the oil at the end of the season is best, 
> but if you're keeping yours indoors, you can get away with waiting 
> until Spring. Same for your lower unit.  I'd at least fog your intake 
> and squirt some oil in the cylinder.  I run my engine dry of fuel 
> which you can do while its running out the fuel in the lines.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Joe Dempsey
> S/V Respite
> Deltaville, VA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of 
> Matt Wilson
> Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2022 10:24 AM
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Winterizing my 4 stroke
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I have a brand new Honda 5HP 4 stroke that has been used very lightly 
> for just one season.  I shut off the fuel supply and ran out the gas 
> at the end of the season.  It is stored in my heated basement and will 
> sit idle for 6mos.  Do I need to do a full winterizing or can I get away with just
> changing the oil next Spring?   Appreciate your help as always.
>
> Matt Wilson
> Hornblower II
> White Bear Lake, MN
>
>


From jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com  Thu Dec  8 17:57:56 2022
From: jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com (Jesse Shumaker)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2022 16:57:56 -0600
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] S/V RESPITE IS FOR SALE
In-Reply-To: <019901d90b48$919a0000$b4ce0000$@gmail.com>
References: <019901d90b48$919a0000$b4ce0000$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMc-3fqUL-=uao45e63rG9DYZ1GW6cbaSQJ_dz=-JZ8VZsMk-Q@mail.gmail.com>

Joe, that is a great looking boat!

Jesse Shumaker
S/V Zephyr

On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 3:04 PM <jpd9668 at gmail.com> wrote:

> There comes a time in every sailor's life that he faces the reality that he
> can no longer serve as captain and crew of his vessel. That time has
> finally
> come for me and The Admiral.  We are selling S/V Respite, 1989 Factory
> recycled in 2005, interior re-built 2019, ALMOST NEW CONDITION! Was a
> candidate for the GBI exhibit at the Annapolis Boat Show. New Suzuki 9.9
> EFI
> 4 stroke engine in 2017. (less than 80 hours). Includes 2010 Triad Trailer
> (less than 2000 miles, never submerged!)  Asking $21,500. We have
> thoroughly
> enjoyed the Rhodes and believe it to be one of the best thought out small
> boat sailing designs. Not a day on her has gone by without her receiving
> compliments from passersby in our marina. It is a testament to Stan and GBI
> for his vision of building and continually improving a design that has
> continued for fifty plus years. The fervent loyalty of members of the fleet
> on this List is also a testament to the longevity of the manufacturing and
> design of this fine sailing vessel. I will continue to be a contributor the
> The List in the future. Several photos are attached.  A complete list of
> options and features will be posted at a future date. Serious inquires may
> be addressed to me offline at jpd9668atgmail.com.
>
>
>
> Joe Dempsey
>
> S/V Respite
>
> Deltaville, VA
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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> >
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> >
>

From jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com  Thu Dec  8 17:59:34 2022
From: jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com (Jesse Shumaker)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2022 16:59:34 -0600
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Winterizing my 4 stroke
In-Reply-To: <CY8PR10MB66836691DE373F169CED026B801D9@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CACdaeT6-oh_58VNMfndZSczTV6Yjp174PM9P88+Zm4GJOvxzCg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CY8PR10MB66832143C97DF517E21FC759801D9@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAMc-3fqks9S07UXw-q5WA_qzRrZkOnRs-7i5XWLNUmHmYuutUQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CY8PR10MB66836691DE373F169CED026B801D9@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAMc-3fr_K9dKnHA5UaXF3Jarv_UnQsUVx3J=tOXdVjGe=dG-4w@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Roger for the info.  Keeping spares on board is a sure way to keep
things from breaking :)

-Jesse

On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 11:30 AM ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com> wrote:

> Jessie,
>
> I keep a spare water pump impeller + the gasket on board.  My Honda 8
> outboard is a 1996 and has only needed 1 impeller in all those years.
> Note, I also keep spare ignition black boxes, a coil, and spark plugs on
> board although I?ve never needed them.
>
> Roger Pihlaja
> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Dec 8, 2022, at 12:05 PM, Jesse Shumaker <
> jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > ?While on the topic of end of season maintenance, I'm curious how
> frequently
> > people change their impeller.
> >
> > Jesse Shumaker
> > S/V Zephyr
> >
> >> On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 10:54 AM ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Matt,
> >>
> >> I usually disconnect the fuel line and run the engine until the
> carburetor
> >> runs dry.  Then, while the engine is still warm, I change the engine oil
> >> and gearbox oil.  Then, I pull the spark plugs and squirt some engine
> oil
> >> into each cylinder.  Turn the engine over by hand with the spark plugs
> out
> >> to distribute the oil and then reinstall the spark plugs.  If the engine
> >> has been used in saltwater, flush the cooling passages with fresh water
> and
> >> let it drain out.  That?s about all you need to do.
> >>
> >> Roger Pihlaja
> >> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >>
> >>
>

From jpd9668 at gmail.com  Fri Dec  9 10:08:06 2022
From: jpd9668 at gmail.com (jpd9668 at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2022 10:08:06 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Winterizing my 4 stroke
In-Reply-To: <CAMc-3fr_K9dKnHA5UaXF3Jarv_UnQsUVx3J=tOXdVjGe=dG-4w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACdaeT6-oh_58VNMfndZSczTV6Yjp174PM9P88+Zm4GJOvxzCg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CY8PR10MB66832143C97DF517E21FC759801D9@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAMc-3fqks9S07UXw-q5WA_qzRrZkOnRs-7i5XWLNUmHmYuutUQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CY8PR10MB66836691DE373F169CED026B801D9@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAMc-3fr_K9dKnHA5UaXF3Jarv_UnQsUVx3J=tOXdVjGe=dG-4w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <022001d90be0$0d1a7d80$274f7880$@gmail.com>

I don't think the spares will prevent things from breaking but will help getting them fixed!  LOL! Thanks for your kind words about "Respite". Have already had several inquiries.

Joe Dempsey
S/V Respite
Deltaville, VA

-----Original Message-----
From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of Jesse Shumaker
Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2022 6:00 PM
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Winterizing my 4 stroke

Thanks Roger for the info.  Keeping spares on board is a sure way to keep things from breaking :)

-Jesse

On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 11:30 AM ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com> wrote:

> Jessie,
>
> I keep a spare water pump impeller + the gasket on board.  My Honda 8 
> outboard is a 1996 and has only needed 1 impeller in all those years.
> Note, I also keep spare ignition black boxes, a coil, and spark plugs 
> on board although I?ve never needed them.
>
> Roger Pihlaja
> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Dec 8, 2022, at 12:05 PM, Jesse Shumaker <
> jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > ?While on the topic of end of season maintenance, I'm curious how
> frequently
> > people change their impeller.
> >
> > Jesse Shumaker
> > S/V Zephyr
> >
> >> On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 10:54 AM ROGER PIHLAJA 
> >> <roger_pihlaja at msn.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Matt,
> >>
> >> I usually disconnect the fuel line and run the engine until the
> carburetor
> >> runs dry.  Then, while the engine is still warm, I change the 
> >> engine oil and gearbox oil.  Then, I pull the spark plugs and 
> >> squirt some engine
> oil
> >> into each cylinder.  Turn the engine over by hand with the spark 
> >> plugs
> out
> >> to distribute the oil and then reinstall the spark plugs.  If the 
> >> engine has been used in saltwater, flush the cooling passages with 
> >> fresh water
> and
> >> let it drain out.  That?s about all you need to do.
> >>
> >> Roger Pihlaja
> >> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >>
> >>
>


From chrisgeankoplis at gmail.com  Sat Dec 10 01:17:13 2022
From: chrisgeankoplis at gmail.com (Chris Geankoplis)
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2022 00:17:13 -0600
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] S/V RESPITE IS FOR SALE
In-Reply-To: <CAMc-3fqUL-=uao45e63rG9DYZ1GW6cbaSQJ_dz=-JZ8VZsMk-Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <019901d90b48$919a0000$b4ce0000$@gmail.com>
 <CAMc-3fqUL-=uao45e63rG9DYZ1GW6cbaSQJ_dz=-JZ8VZsMk-Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADNTwiXadEaBX1xj2WG8WX1nO8R0y+BUSU6MQtLoxFVHshsuzA@mail.gmail.com>

A beauty.  Glad you will remain a Rhodie. It?s like the mafia, you can?t
quit. Grin.
Chris GeankopliS/V Xenos

On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 4:58 PM Jesse Shumaker <
jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com> wrote:

> Joe, that is a great looking boat!
>
> Jesse Shumaker
> S/V Zephyr
>
> On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 3:04 PM <jpd9668 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > There comes a time in every sailor's life that he faces the reality that
> he
> > can no longer serve as captain and crew of his vessel. That time has
> > finally
> > come for me and The Admiral.  We are selling S/V Respite, 1989 Factory
> > recycled in 2005, interior re-built 2019, ALMOST NEW CONDITION! Was a
> > candidate for the GBI exhibit at the Annapolis Boat Show. New Suzuki 9.9
> > EFI
> > 4 stroke engine in 2017. (less than 80 hours). Includes 2010 Triad
> Trailer
> > (less than 2000 miles, never submerged!)  Asking $21,500. We have
> > thoroughly
> > enjoyed the Rhodes and believe it to be one of the best thought out small
> > boat sailing designs. Not a day on her has gone by without her receiving
> > compliments from passersby in our marina. It is a testament to Stan and
> GBI
> > for his vision of building and continually improving a design that has
> > continued for fifty plus years. The fervent loyalty of members of the
> fleet
> > on this List is also a testament to the longevity of the manufacturing
> and
> > design of this fine sailing vessel. I will continue to be a contributor
> the
> > The List in the future. Several photos are attached.  A complete list of
> > options and features will be posted at a future date. Serious inquires
> may
> > be addressed to me offline at jpd9668atgmail.com.
> >
> >
> >
> > Joe Dempsey
> >
> > S/V Respite
> >
> > Deltaville, VA
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> > Name: Respite on Fishing Bay 9-19 Fix.jpeg
> > Type: image/jpeg
> > Size: 108476 bytes
> > Desc: not available
> > URL: <
> >
> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221208/7c307f88/attachment.jpeg
> > >
> > -------------- next part --------------
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> > URL: <
> >
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> > >
> > -------------- next part --------------
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> > URL: <
> >
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> > >
> >
>

From ric at stottarchitecture.com  Sat Dec 10 14:25:13 2022
From: ric at stottarchitecture.com (Ric Stott)
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2022 14:25:13 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] S/V RESPITE IS FOR SALE
In-Reply-To: <CADNTwiXadEaBX1xj2WG8WX1nO8R0y+BUSU6MQtLoxFVHshsuzA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <019901d90b48$919a0000$b4ce0000$@gmail.com>
 <CAMc-3fqUL-=uao45e63rG9DYZ1GW6cbaSQJ_dz=-JZ8VZsMk-Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADNTwiXadEaBX1xj2WG8WX1nO8R0y+BUSU6MQtLoxFVHshsuzA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F2DBCE5-3CC0-4238-9714-D5BF38D27A04@stottarchitecture.com>

? . . . you can check out any time you want, but you  can never leave . . . ? 
SV Dadventure 

Richard F. Stott, AIA, LEED AP 
ric at stottarchitecture.com
O -631-283-1777
C- 516-965-3164



> On Dec 10, 2022, at 1:17 AM, Chris Geankoplis <chrisgeankoplis at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> A beauty.  Glad you will remain a Rhodie. It?s like the mafia, you can?t
> quit. Grin.
> Chris GeankopliS/V Xenos
> 
> On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 4:58 PM Jesse Shumaker <
> jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Joe, that is a great looking boat!
>> 
>> Jesse Shumaker
>> S/V Zephyr
>> 
>> On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 3:04 PM <jpd9668 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> There comes a time in every sailor's life that he faces the reality that
>> he
>>> can no longer serve as captain and crew of his vessel. That time has
>>> finally
>>> come for me and The Admiral.  We are selling S/V Respite, 1989 Factory
>>> recycled in 2005, interior re-built 2019, ALMOST NEW CONDITION! Was a
>>> candidate for the GBI exhibit at the Annapolis Boat Show. New Suzuki 9.9
>>> EFI
>>> 4 stroke engine in 2017. (less than 80 hours). Includes 2010 Triad
>> Trailer
>>> (less than 2000 miles, never submerged!)  Asking $21,500. We have
>>> thoroughly
>>> enjoyed the Rhodes and believe it to be one of the best thought out small
>>> boat sailing designs. Not a day on her has gone by without her receiving
>>> compliments from passersby in our marina. It is a testament to Stan and
>> GBI
>>> for his vision of building and continually improving a design that has
>>> continued for fifty plus years. The fervent loyalty of members of the
>> fleet
>>> on this List is also a testament to the longevity of the manufacturing
>> and
>>> design of this fine sailing vessel. I will continue to be a contributor
>> the
>>> The List in the future. Several photos are attached.  A complete list of
>>> options and features will be posted at a future date. Serious inquires
>> may
>>> be addressed to me offline at jpd9668atgmail.com.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Joe Dempsey
>>> 
>>> S/V Respite
>>> 
>>> Deltaville, VA
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -------------- next part --------------
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>> 


From jeffsmithphoto at gmail.com  Sun Dec 11 12:33:49 2022
From: jeffsmithphoto at gmail.com (Jeff Smith Photo)
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2022 12:33:49 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] R 22 National Rendezvous?
Message-ID: <CAM0HAm=sWSS+TRC7zCUOMdRjBHSOpB22yzNyRK83xR4w61OtMg@mail.gmail.com>

WindCheck magazine had a nice article about the Mariner National Rendezvous
in the November/December 2022 issue.

 <
https://www.windcheckmagazine.com/article/the-2022-mariner-national-rendezvous/
>

If there is interest, I would be happy to help organize one for us
somewhere on the East Coast.

Jeff Smith
R22 #255
Radiant
Atlantic Highlands, NJ
732-236-1368

From jpd9668 at gmail.com  Sun Dec 11 14:04:41 2022
From: jpd9668 at gmail.com (jpd9668 at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2022 14:04:41 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] R 22 National Rendezvous?
In-Reply-To: <CAM0HAm=sWSS+TRC7zCUOMdRjBHSOpB22yzNyRK83xR4w61OtMg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM0HAm=sWSS+TRC7zCUOMdRjBHSOpB22yzNyRK83xR4w61OtMg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <010601d90d93$76ef7b20$64ce7160$@gmail.com>

Sounds like a great idea! I'm wistful, we probably won't still have "Respite" as there is building interest in purchasing her. Would try to attend with our classic 1968 Trojan 42 motor yacht if it is held somewhere on the Chesapeake.

Joe Dempsey
S/V Respite (currently for sale)
Deltaville, VA

-----Original Message-----
From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of Jeff Smith Photo
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2022 12:34 PM
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] R 22 National Rendezvous?

WindCheck magazine had a nice article about the Mariner National Rendezvous in the November/December 2022 issue.

 <
https://www.windcheckmagazine.com/article/the-2022-mariner-national-rendezvous/
>

If there is interest, I would be happy to help organize one for us somewhere on the East Coast.

Jeff Smith
R22 #255
Radiant
Atlantic Highlands, NJ
732-236-1368


From tavares0947 at gmail.com  Sun Dec 11 14:08:49 2022
From: tavares0947 at gmail.com (Todd Tavares)
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2022 14:08:49 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] R 22 National Rendezvous?
In-Reply-To: <CAM0HAm=sWSS+TRC7zCUOMdRjBHSOpB22yzNyRK83xR4w61OtMg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM0HAm=sWSS+TRC7zCUOMdRjBHSOpB22yzNyRK83xR4w61OtMg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB-twMMg+mrmz-jtVZz-b54BmRokq3tKagxamgk-BVn3J-8fpQ@mail.gmail.com>

It would have to be next year when it's warm....brrrr

On Sun, Dec 11, 2022, 12:34 PM Jeff Smith Photo <jeffsmithphoto at gmail.com>
wrote:

> WindCheck magazine had a nice article about the Mariner National Rendezvous
> in the November/December 2022 issue.
>
>  <
>
> https://www.windcheckmagazine.com/article/the-2022-mariner-national-rendezvous/
> >
>
> If there is interest, I would be happy to help organize one for us
> somewhere on the East Coast.
>
> Jeff Smith
> R22 #255
> Radiant
> Atlantic Highlands, NJ
> 732-236-1368
>

From jpd9668 at gmail.com  Sun Dec 11 14:52:55 2022
From: jpd9668 at gmail.com (jpd9668 at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2022 14:52:55 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] RHODES 22 BURGEES AND CAPS
Message-ID: <017901d90d9a$31430220$93c90660$@gmail.com>

I was just recently notified by the Burgee Shoppe that there is still an
inventory of R22 burgees. This is good timing if there is going to be a
Rhodes Rendezvous this year. They are available to our owners for $29.95
with FREE SHIPPING IN U.S. If you don't have one, Click on "Community News"
on the Rhodes 22 Owner's website to view the burgee. 

 

TO ORDER, CUT AND PASTE THE FOLLOWING ONTO AN EMAIL:

Please send ____ 15" X 18" RHODES 22 Burgee(s) at $29.95 to:

<NAME, SHIPPING ADDRESS>

Your phone number (for Cindy to call for your payment information)

Send the above to email: cindy.halling1 at gmail.com
<mailto:cindy.halling1 at gmail.com> 

Expect a return call from Cindy Halling : (562) 252-6005 for your payment
information.

No need to notify me, as we met our initial minimum.

I have a few Rhodes 22 caps if you are interested. They are $27.00 + $5.00
shipping. If you want one, let me know at this address. Choose either White
or Navy color and included your BILLING AND SHIPPING addresses.  You'll get
a PayPal invoice to pay.

Joe Dempsey 

S/V Respite

Deltaville, VA

 

 


From jeffsmithphoto at gmail.com  Mon Dec 12 06:24:09 2022
From: jeffsmithphoto at gmail.com (Jeff Smith Photo)
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2022 06:24:09 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] R 22 National Rendezvous
Message-ID: <CAM0HAmmthQCosmKJd_d-ggf_NJuWGxTd=R8GkvA3tZuym2pXtg@mail.gmail.com>

Last year my wife Emily and I trailered our boat to the Cambridge launch
ramp and sailed the Choptank River in September. The weather and winds were
great and there was plenty of stuff to see and do. Including the maritime
museum at St Michael's.
The Narragansett Bay including Newport and Penobscot Bay in Maine are other
possibilities.

Best Regards
Jeff Smith
www.http://JeffSmithPhoto.Net
732-236-1368

From chrisgeankoplis at gmail.com  Mon Dec 12 08:43:40 2022
From: chrisgeankoplis at gmail.com (Chris Geankoplis)
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2022 07:43:40 -0600
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] R 22 National Rendezvous
In-Reply-To: <CAM0HAmmthQCosmKJd_d-ggf_NJuWGxTd=R8GkvA3tZuym2pXtg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM0HAmmthQCosmKJd_d-ggf_NJuWGxTd=R8GkvA3tZuym2pXtg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADNTwiXOFKRiBgiKqOHu2MVWQGB51iDgRO0uaT6KUBi1Au+kfQ@mail.gmail.com>

At first, Alice and I figured we would not be able to participate in the
concept of an east coast rally as we now live in Kansas in the summer and
fall. But if we were to AirBnB during the sept football season for K State
it just might work out. So, tentatively, count us in for September.
Chris & Alice Geankoplis
Xenos

On Mon, Dec 12, 2022 at 5:24 AM Jeff Smith Photo <jeffsmithphoto at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Last year my wife Emily and I trailered our boat to the Cambridge launch
> ramp and sailed the Choptank River in September. The weather and winds were
> great and there was plenty of stuff to see and do. Including the maritime
> museum at St Michael's.
> The Narragansett Bay including Newport and Penobscot Bay in Maine are other
> possibilities.
>
> Best Regards
> Jeff Smith
> www.http://JeffSmithPhoto.Net
> 732-236-1368
>

From mtroy at atlanticbb.net  Mon Dec 12 13:30:19 2022
From: mtroy at atlanticbb.net (Mary Lou Troy)
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2022 13:30:19 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] R 22 National Rendezvous
In-Reply-To: <CAM0HAmmthQCosmKJd_d-ggf_NJuWGxTd=R8GkvA3tZuym2pXtg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM0HAmmthQCosmKJd_d-ggf_NJuWGxTd=R8GkvA3tZuym2pXtg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fe0c4575-f451-00d9-bd61-a38d7dde1118@atlanticbb.net>

The Choptank is one of our favorite cruising grounds as are the Miles 
(home of the Chesapeake Bay Maritime Museum) and the Chester further 
north. If the rendezvous (or is it a Rhendezvous?) ends up on Upper 
Chesapeake, we'd be happy to provide some local knowledge. If the timing 
works, we might even see you all somewhere.

Mary Lou
ex Rhodes 22
now Rosborough RF-246,? Tara
Rock Hall, MD

On 12/12/2022 6:24 AM, Jeff Smith Photo wrote:
> Last year my wife Emily and I trailered our boat to the Cambridge launch
> ramp and sailed the Choptank River in September. The weather and winds were
> great and there was plenty of stuff to see and do. Including the maritime
> museum at St Michael's.
> The Narragansett Bay including Newport and Penobscot Bay in Maine are other
> possibilities.
>
> Best Regards
> Jeff Smith
> www.http://JeffSmithPhoto.Net
> 732-236-1368


From sea20 at verizon.net  Mon Dec 12 16:22:38 2022
From: sea20 at verizon.net (sea20 at verizon.net)
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2022 21:22:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] R 22 National Rendezvous
In-Reply-To: <fe0c4575-f451-00d9-bd61-a38d7dde1118@atlanticbb.net>
References: <CAM0HAmmthQCosmKJd_d-ggf_NJuWGxTd=R8GkvA3tZuym2pXtg@mail.gmail.com>
 <fe0c4575-f451-00d9-bd61-a38d7dde1118@atlanticbb.net>
Message-ID: <1544979609.2594351.1670880158993@mail.yahoo.com>

We?would be interested in any rendezvous on the Upper Chesapeake.
Scott and Rebecca AndrewsPantalaimon '86


-----Original Message-----
From: Mary Lou Troy <mtroy at atlanticbb.net>
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Mon, Dec 12, 2022 1:30 pm
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] R 22 National Rendezvous

The Choptank is one of our favorite cruising grounds as are the Miles 
(home of the Chesapeake Bay Maritime Museum) and the Chester further 
north. If the rendezvous (or is it a Rhendezvous?) ends up on Upper 
Chesapeake, we'd be happy to provide some local knowledge. If the timing 
works, we might even see you all somewhere.

Mary Lou
ex Rhodes 22
now Rosborough RF-246,? Tara
Rock Hall, MD

On 12/12/2022 6:24 AM, Jeff Smith Photo wrote:
> Last year my wife Emily and I trailered our boat to the Cambridge launch
> ramp and sailed the Choptank River in September. The weather and winds were
> great and there was plenty of stuff to see and do. Including the maritime
> museum at St Michael's.
> The Narragansett Bay including Newport and Penobscot Bay in Maine are other
> possibilities.
>
> Best Regards
> Jeff Smith
> www.http://JeffSmithPhoto.Net
> 732-236-1368


From jpd9668 at gmail.com  Mon Dec 12 16:31:04 2022
From: jpd9668 at gmail.com (jpd9668 at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2022 16:31:04 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] R 22 National Rendezvous
In-Reply-To: <fe0c4575-f451-00d9-bd61-a38d7dde1118@atlanticbb.net>
References: <CAM0HAmmthQCosmKJd_d-ggf_NJuWGxTd=R8GkvA3tZuym2pXtg@mail.gmail.com>
 <fe0c4575-f451-00d9-bd61-a38d7dde1118@atlanticbb.net>
Message-ID: <002d01d90e71$10501f80$30f05e80$@gmail.com>

Hey Mary Lou,
We can have the stink pot raft! LOL!

-----Original Message-----
From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of Mary Lou Troy
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2022 1:30 PM
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] R 22 National Rendezvous

The Choptank is one of our favorite cruising grounds as are the Miles (home of the Chesapeake Bay Maritime Museum) and the Chester further north. If the rendezvous (or is it a Rhendezvous?) ends up on Upper Chesapeake, we'd be happy to provide some local knowledge. If the timing works, we might even see you all somewhere.

Mary Lou
ex Rhodes 22
now Rosborough RF-246,  Tara
Rock Hall, MD

On 12/12/2022 6:24 AM, Jeff Smith Photo wrote:
> Last year my wife Emily and I trailered our boat to the Cambridge 
> launch ramp and sailed the Choptank River in September. The weather 
> and winds were great and there was plenty of stuff to see and do. 
> Including the maritime museum at St Michael's.
> The Narragansett Bay including Newport and Penobscot Bay in Maine are 
> other possibilities.
>
> Best Regards
> Jeff Smith
> www.http://JeffSmithPhoto.Net
> 732-236-1368



From chrisgeankoplis at gmail.com  Mon Dec 12 23:28:33 2022
From: chrisgeankoplis at gmail.com (Chris Geankoplis)
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2022 22:28:33 -0600
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] R 22 National Rendezvous
In-Reply-To: <fe0c4575-f451-00d9-bd61-a38d7dde1118@atlanticbb.net>
References: <CAM0HAmmthQCosmKJd_d-ggf_NJuWGxTd=R8GkvA3tZuym2pXtg@mail.gmail.com>
 <fe0c4575-f451-00d9-bd61-a38d7dde1118@atlanticbb.net>
Message-ID: <CADNTwiXYhs9XjBZeVqa-DYUhUNQEd+s7xtHmK6hmu9V7EM0TPQ@mail.gmail.com>

Starting to look like fun.

On Mon, Dec 12, 2022 at 12:30 PM Mary Lou Troy <mtroy at atlanticbb.net> wrote:

> The Choptank is one of our favorite cruising grounds as are the Miles
> (home of the Chesapeake Bay Maritime Museum) and the Chester further
> north. If the rendezvous (or is it a Rhendezvous?) ends up on Upper
> Chesapeake, we'd be happy to provide some local knowledge. If the timing
> works, we might even see you all somewhere.
>
> Mary Lou
> ex Rhodes 22
> now Rosborough RF-246,  Tara
> Rock Hall, MD
>
> On 12/12/2022 6:24 AM, Jeff Smith Photo wrote:
> > Last year my wife Emily and I trailered our boat to the Cambridge launch
> > ramp and sailed the Choptank River in September. The weather and winds
> were
> > great and there was plenty of stuff to see and do. Including the maritime
> > museum at St Michael's.
> > The Narragansett Bay including Newport and Penobscot Bay in Maine are
> other
> > possibilities.
> >
> > Best Regards
> > Jeff Smith
> > www.http://JeffSmithPhoto.Net
> > 732-236-1368
>
>

From jeffsmithphoto at gmail.com  Tue Dec 13 06:20:49 2022
From: jeffsmithphoto at gmail.com (Jeff Smith Photo)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2022 06:20:49 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] R 22 National Rhendezvous
Message-ID: <CAM0HAmneRrWf0D7=3J3BTVdL0EPvep8GgwV2ZMp22Uh4NO1_Zw@mail.gmail.com>

I like Rhendezvous!
Let's plan for a long weekend (and/or more) in September on the Chesapeake.
Preparation could include reading James Michner's  great novel Chesapeake.
Best Regards
Jeff Smith
www.http://JeffSmithPhoto.Net
732-236-1368

From C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu  Tue Dec 13 15:29:17 2022
From: C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu (C. Robert Lester)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2022 20:29:17 +0000
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
In-Reply-To: <CY8PR10MB6683566EFE0A80AE89CA4D7480189@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
References: <63821e4f.020a0220.9bd25.39b5@mx.google.com>
 <c5674348-daad-0878-9b7e-814b9df175c8@vt.edu>
 <000201d9041e$513b6fc0$f3b24f40$@gmail.com>
 <CY8PR10MB6683D4528620D2943A4CEFFF80129@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
 <f0d18634-48d9-7382-498d-3774198dc6de@vt.edu>
 <9d4c38a9-5e00-a0a0-7528-73c2e3aa8422@vt.edu>
 <CAB-twMN_dJb0-eHOQC9j3P_2TPx5a=EjrHrOfCMLguGGZLiq=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <7f1370ba-8bc4-69b6-cd58-1ebc3bb27a1a@vt.edu>
 <CY8PR10MB6683BB3DF1A51EFF939EBA5D80189@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
 <f0328b66-295b-bdf5-193c-54bd81fafda9@vt.edu>
 <CY8PR10MB6683566EFE0A80AE89CA4D7480189@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <pqj8661eve8i37bki1a1is09.1670963354708@dartmouth.edu>

I'm finally posting a picture of the new rudder on the stern of our boat.
This was after we pulled the boat last week for the season.
You'll notice our old rudder ( for comparison) posted in earlier parts of this thread.
Thank you, Bob

Sent via BlackBerry Hub+ Inbox for Android<http://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.blackberry.hub>
From: roger_pihlaja at msn.com
Sent: December 5, 2022 12:38 PM
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Reply-to: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22

Chris,

There were a few years where the IMF mainsail was available; but, the centerboard was the old blade style.  Your boat appears to be one of those.  We would need Stan to say for sure.  But, I think the Diamond Board was introduced to correct the helm balance when the IMF mainsail became so popular.  You may find you need the slight forward tilt of the rudder blade.  I?ve never seen this topic discussed before.

Roger Pihlaja
S/V Dynamic Equilibrium

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 5, 2022, at 10:51 AM, Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu> wrote:
>
> ?Roger,
>
> I have the IMF mainsail and the old-style blade centerboard.
>
> I, too, was thinking about that relatively large moment arm of the rudder blade. The resulting leverage would magnify slight changes at the rudder, which, in combination with the relatively flat bottom of the R-22 hull, would make the force applied at the rudder all the more effective (if there were more of a keel, slight changes in the rudder would have much less an overall effect).
>
> On a related note:
> I also sail a Laser (which has a very flat bottom). A few years ago I discovered that I can steer the Laser with the daggerboard. I lock the tiller in a central position and ease the daggerboard up to fall off, down to head up. A change of an inch or so in depth is enough to change the heading a few degrees. This works best when sailing anywhere from a tight reach to a hard beat.
>
> I spent a good amount of time this past season working to balance the R-22 helm with sail adjustments. Next season I'm going to start balancing helm with the rudder up-haul. I've never been so anxious for the season to start (I'll also learn if I put my centerboard back together properly).
>
> Chris
>
>
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From C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu  Tue Dec 13 23:40:47 2022
From: C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu (C. Robert Lester)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2022 04:40:47 +0000
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
In-Reply-To: <pqj8661eve8i37bki1a1is09.1670963354708@dartmouth.edu>
References: <63821e4f.020a0220.9bd25.39b5@mx.google.com>
 <c5674348-daad-0878-9b7e-814b9df175c8@vt.edu>
 <000201d9041e$513b6fc0$f3b24f40$@gmail.com>
 <CY8PR10MB6683D4528620D2943A4CEFFF80129@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
 <f0d18634-48d9-7382-498d-3774198dc6de@vt.edu>
 <9d4c38a9-5e00-a0a0-7528-73c2e3aa8422@vt.edu>
 <CAB-twMN_dJb0-eHOQC9j3P_2TPx5a=EjrHrOfCMLguGGZLiq=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <7f1370ba-8bc4-69b6-cd58-1ebc3bb27a1a@vt.edu>
 <CY8PR10MB6683BB3DF1A51EFF939EBA5D80189@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
 <f0328b66-295b-bdf5-193c-54bd81fafda9@vt.edu>
 <CY8PR10MB6683566EFE0A80AE89CA4D7480189@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
 <pqj8661eve8i37bki1a1is09.1670963354708@dartmouth.edu>
Message-ID: <MW5PR03MB68798807CDAA955C9B1E5A07AEE09@MW5PR03MB6879.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>

...forgive me, resized attachment.
Bob
'84 R22, ORION


-----Original Message-----
From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of C. Robert Lester
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2022 3:29 PM
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22

I'm finally posting a picture of the new rudder on the stern of our boat.
This was after we pulled the boat last week for the season.
You'll notice our old rudder ( for comparison) posted in earlier parts of this thread.
Thank you, Bob

Sent via BlackBerry Hub+ Inbox for Android<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fplay.google.com%2Fstore%2Fapps%2Fdetails%3Fid%3Dcom.blackberry.hub&amp;data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7Cbe7c309c43c041cedee608dadd48b8ae%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638065601647638273%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=lSaB4gbJ3CZ%2FOyjTDsQkaMBT67CB2S4DbWddL%2FEyV%2FM%3D&amp;reserved=0>
From: roger_pihlaja at msn.com
Sent: December 5, 2022 12:38 PM
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Reply-to: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22

Chris,

There were a few years where the IMF mainsail was available; but, the centerboard was the old blade style.  Your boat appears to be one of those.  We would need Stan to say for sure.  But, I think the Diamond Board was introduced to correct the helm balance when the IMF mainsail became so popular.  You may find you need the slight forward tilt of the rudder blade.  I?ve never seen this topic discussed before.

Roger Pihlaja
S/V Dynamic Equilibrium

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 5, 2022, at 10:51 AM, Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu> wrote:
>
> ?Roger,
>
> I have the IMF mainsail and the old-style blade centerboard.
>
> I, too, was thinking about that relatively large moment arm of the rudder blade. The resulting leverage would magnify slight changes at the rudder, which, in combination with the relatively flat bottom of the R-22 hull, would make the force applied at the rudder all the more effective (if there were more of a keel, slight changes in the rudder would have much less an overall effect).
>
> On a related note:
> I also sail a Laser (which has a very flat bottom). A few years ago I discovered that I can steer the Laser with the daggerboard. I lock the tiller in a central position and ease the daggerboard up to fall off, down to head up. A change of an inch or so in depth is enough to change the heading a few degrees. This works best when sailing anywhere from a tight reach to a hard beat.
>
> I spent a good amount of time this past season working to balance the R-22 helm with sail adjustments. Next season I'm going to start balancing helm with the rudder up-haul. I've never been so anxious for the season to start (I'll also learn if I put my centerboard back together properly).
>
> Chris
>
>
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From michael.4591 at gmail.com  Fri Dec 16 14:53:34 2022
From: michael.4591 at gmail.com (Michael Corley)
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2022 14:53:34 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] R 22 National Rhendezvous
In-Reply-To: <CAM0HAmneRrWf0D7=3J3BTVdL0EPvep8GgwV2ZMp22Uh4NO1_Zw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM0HAmneRrWf0D7=3J3BTVdL0EPvep8GgwV2ZMp22Uh4NO1_Zw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACSd1jL70N614iAig894LNmuJpNn1zuEpd2HaCm4hxRoMmBWhQ@mail.gmail.com>

I vote for Southern Chesapeake or Albemarle Sound, but have trailer - will
travel!  May or Sept preferred.  We could do the Albemarle Loop with maybe
a stop in Edenton.  See link below.

 https://albemarleloop.com

-Mike
s/v Ranger
Hampton Roads

On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 6:21 AM Jeff Smith Photo <jeffsmithphoto at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I like Rhendezvous!
> Let's plan for a long weekend (and/or more) in September on the Chesapeake.
> Preparation could include reading James Michner's  great novel Chesapeake.
> Best Regards
> Jeff Smith
> www.http://JeffSmithPhoto.Net
> 732-236-1368
>

From jpd9668 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 17 11:37:50 2022
From: jpd9668 at gmail.com (jpd9668 at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2022 11:37:50 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] R 22 National Rhendezvous
In-Reply-To: <CACSd1jL70N614iAig894LNmuJpNn1zuEpd2HaCm4hxRoMmBWhQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM0HAmneRrWf0D7=3J3BTVdL0EPvep8GgwV2ZMp22Uh4NO1_Zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACSd1jL70N614iAig894LNmuJpNn1zuEpd2HaCm4hxRoMmBWhQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00bd01d91235$ea8ebd10$bfac3730$@gmail.com>

Deltaville is located at the mouth of the Rappahannock River on the mid-Chesapeake about halfway between Annapolis and Norfolk. Regatta Point Yachting Center on Broad Creek about two miles from the mouth, has a club house offering great views and a large meeting room for social gatherings. There is a fee, of course, and if there is interest, I can find out what it is. There are about 10-14 transient slips as well as additional bulkhead tie ups as well as pump out station. The Rappahannock is wide enough for fine sailing and the famous Tides Inn is on Carter's Creek about 11 miles up river that would be a nice lunch location following by a morning sail.

Joe Dempsey
S/V Respite
Deltaville, VA

-----Original Message-----
From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of Michael Corley
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2022 2:54 PM
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] R 22 National Rhendezvous

I vote for Southern Chesapeake or Albemarle Sound, but have trailer - will travel!  May or Sept preferred.  We could do the Albemarle Loop with maybe a stop in Edenton.  See link below.

 https://albemarleloop.com

-Mike
s/v Ranger
Hampton Roads

On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 6:21 AM Jeff Smith Photo <jeffsmithphoto at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I like Rhendezvous!
> Let's plan for a long weekend (and/or more) in September on the Chesapeake.
> Preparation could include reading James Michner's  great novel Chesapeake.
> Best Regards
> Jeff Smith
> www.http://JeffSmithPhoto.Net
> 732-236-1368
>


From keywestseccorp at verizon.net  Mon Dec 19 09:37:58 2022
From: keywestseccorp at verizon.net (Mark West)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2022 14:37:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] R 22 National Rhendezvous
In-Reply-To: <00bd01d91235$ea8ebd10$bfac3730$@gmail.com>
References: <CAM0HAmneRrWf0D7=3J3BTVdL0EPvep8GgwV2ZMp22Uh4NO1_Zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACSd1jL70N614iAig894LNmuJpNn1zuEpd2HaCm4hxRoMmBWhQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <00bd01d91235$ea8ebd10$bfac3730$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1666578580.986066.1671460678286@mail.yahoo.com>

Joe and Mike, the Albemarle sound is my vote also have trailer can travel. Connie and I would like to meetup with other Rodies Mark West FairWinds 2 Hertford NC

-----Original Message-----
From: jpd9668 at gmail.com
To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Sat, Dec 17, 2022 11:37 am
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] R 22 National Rhendezvous

Deltaville is located at the mouth of the Rappahannock River on the mid-Chesapeake about halfway between Annapolis and Norfolk. Regatta Point Yachting Center on Broad Creek about two miles from the mouth, has a club house offering great views and a large meeting room for social gatherings. There is a fee, of course, and if there is interest, I can find out what it is. There are about 10-14 transient slips as well as additional bulkhead tie ups as well as pump out station. The Rappahannock is wide enough for fine sailing and the famous Tides Inn is on Carter's Creek about 11 miles up river that would be a nice lunch location following by a morning sail.

Joe Dempsey
S/V Respite
Deltaville, VA

-----Original Message-----
From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of Michael Corley
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2022 2:54 PM
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] R 22 National Rhendezvous

I vote for Southern Chesapeake or Albemarle Sound, but have trailer - will travel!? May or Sept preferred.? We could do the Albemarle Loop with maybe a stop in Edenton.? See link below.

 https://albemarleloop.com

-Mike
s/v Ranger
Hampton Roads

On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 6:21 AM Jeff Smith Photo <jeffsmithphoto at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I like Rhendezvous!
> Let's plan for a long weekend (and/or more) in September on the Chesapeake.
> Preparation could include reading James Michner's? great novel Chesapeake.
> Best Regards
> Jeff Smith
> www.http://JeffSmithPhoto.Net
> 732-236-1368
>


From mm.bizlist1 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 21 22:58:26 2022
From: mm.bizlist1 at gmail.com (Michael McKay)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2022 22:58:26 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Round batten and wrinkles in new main?
Message-ID: <DE244AD5-EBCA-42D3-805D-3A0F1EFF6455@gmail.com>

?Happy Holiday Fellow Rhodies!

I just installed a new IMF mainsail I ordered from Doyle Barbados.  It came with a round batten which was way too short for the batten pocket.  I installed my old batten which is flat and fit well, although it protrudes about 1/2? out of the pocket. 

Doyle claims that round battens became standard for R22 mainsails about 8-10 years ago. Can anyone confirm that?

In addition, the sail has prominent wrinkles behind and below the draft stripe (see attached photo).  Doyle gave me the following explanation?does this sound credible to you?

> The wrinkles you are seeing in the cloth are from shipping creases and impacts from shipping with the sail while being folded. (For example, a package gets dropped on end when in transit and the sail hits the edge of the box with a bit of force on a crease and therefore creates a pinch). This will smooth and flatten out with some use.  I can say that with absolute confidence as you can see from the picture that the wrinkles are not emanating from any  panel seams but instead are coming out of the fold lines. Woven Dacron is sealed with a resin which makes a porous weave closed and therefore efficient for use as a sail. That resin is initially quite hard but softens with use and time, as the sail gets used it will smooth out quite a bit. 




Thanks,

Michael McKay
s/v Liber, 2006/2108

Sent from my iPhone
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From gstewart.gm at gmail.com  Wed Dec 21 23:42:08 2022
From: gstewart.gm at gmail.com (Graham Stewart)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2022 23:42:08 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Round batten and wrinkles in new main?
In-Reply-To: <DE244AD5-EBCA-42D3-805D-3A0F1EFF6455@gmail.com>
References: <DE244AD5-EBCA-42D3-805D-3A0F1EFF6455@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACdaeT484XqXdciEV13zUeF7T1Ew8fxN6DpRoyKCwPTXv7oxrw@mail.gmail.com>

Personally, I would be very skeptical of that explanation.


On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 10:58 PM Michael McKay <mm.bizlist1 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Happy Holiday Fellow Rhodies!
>
> I just installed a new IMF mainsail I ordered from Doyle Barbados.  It
> came with a round batten which was way too short for the batten pocket.  I
> installed my old batten which is flat and fit well, although it protrudes
> about 1/2? out of the pocket.
>
> Doyle claims that round battens became standard for R22 mainsails about
> 8-10 years ago. Can anyone confirm that?
>
> In addition, the sail has prominent wrinkles behind and below the draft
> stripe (see attached photo).  Doyle gave me the following explanation?does
> this sound credible to you?
>
> > The wrinkles you are seeing in the cloth are from shipping creases and
> impacts from shipping with the sail while being folded. (For example, a
> package gets dropped on end when in transit and the sail hits the edge of
> the box with a bit of force on a crease and therefore creates a pinch).
> This will smooth and flatten out with some use.  I can say that with
> absolute confidence as you can see from the picture that the wrinkles are
> not emanating from any  panel seams but instead are coming out of the fold
> lines. Woven Dacron is sealed with a resin which makes a porous weave
> closed and therefore efficient for use as a sail. That resin is initially
> quite hard but softens with use and time, as the sail gets used it will
> smooth out quite a bit.
>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Michael McKay
> s/v Liber, 2006/2108
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> -------------- next part --------------
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> Name: image.jpg
> Type: image/jpeg
> Size: 814857 bytes
> Desc: not available
> URL: <
> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221221/9b02ad0e/attachment.jpg
> >
>


-- 
Graham Stewart
Agile 76


-- 
Graham Stewart
Agile 76

From pbryanriley at gmail.com  Thu Dec 22 08:36:51 2022
From: pbryanriley at gmail.com (PBR)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2022 08:36:51 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Round batten and wrinkles in new main?
In-Reply-To: <CACdaeT484XqXdciEV13zUeF7T1Ew8fxN6DpRoyKCwPTXv7oxrw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <DE244AD5-EBCA-42D3-805D-3A0F1EFF6455@gmail.com>
 <CACdaeT484XqXdciEV13zUeF7T1Ew8fxN6DpRoyKCwPTXv7oxrw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGJx+Bo21F26248+jNQS77zcJ5Lq-0rF7CGbAwMBnB_4JZB6A@mail.gmail.com>

I got my sails through Stan and received them early 2021.  I was surprised
to see a round batten and it was shorter than I expected.  Unfortunately,
I have not yet had the opportunity to install either so I can't compare
batten length to pocket length yet.
-Patrick


On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 11:42 PM Graham Stewart <gstewart.gm at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Personally, I would be very skeptical of that explanation.
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 10:58 PM Michael McKay <mm.bizlist1 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Happy Holiday Fellow Rhodies!
> >
> > I just installed a new IMF mainsail I ordered from Doyle Barbados.  It
> > came with a round batten which was way too short for the batten pocket.
> I
> > installed my old batten which is flat and fit well, although it protrudes
> > about 1/2? out of the pocket.
> >
> > Doyle claims that round battens became standard for R22 mainsails about
> > 8-10 years ago. Can anyone confirm that?
> >
> > In addition, the sail has prominent wrinkles behind and below the draft
> > stripe (see attached photo).  Doyle gave me the following
> explanation?does
> > this sound credible to you?
> >
> > > The wrinkles you are seeing in the cloth are from shipping creases and
> > impacts from shipping with the sail while being folded. (For example, a
> > package gets dropped on end when in transit and the sail hits the edge of
> > the box with a bit of force on a crease and therefore creates a pinch).
> > This will smooth and flatten out with some use.  I can say that with
> > absolute confidence as you can see from the picture that the wrinkles are
> > not emanating from any  panel seams but instead are coming out of the
> fold
> > lines. Woven Dacron is sealed with a resin which makes a porous weave
> > closed and therefore efficient for use as a sail. That resin is initially
> > quite hard but softens with use and time, as the sail gets used it will
> > smooth out quite a bit.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Michael McKay
> > s/v Liber, 2006/2108
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> > Name: image.jpg
> > Type: image/jpeg
> > Size: 814857 bytes
> > Desc: not available
> > URL: <
> >
> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221221/9b02ad0e/attachment.jpg
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
> Graham Stewart
> Agile 76
>
>
> --
> Graham Stewart
> Agile 76
>

From roger_pihlaja at msn.com  Thu Dec 22 08:42:00 2022
From: roger_pihlaja at msn.com (ROGER PIHLAJA)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2022 13:42:00 +0000
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Round batten and wrinkles in new main?
In-Reply-To: <CACdaeT484XqXdciEV13zUeF7T1Ew8fxN6DpRoyKCwPTXv7oxrw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <DE244AD5-EBCA-42D3-805D-3A0F1EFF6455@gmail.com>
 <CACdaeT484XqXdciEV13zUeF7T1Ew8fxN6DpRoyKCwPTXv7oxrw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CY8PR10MB6683CF60869F164B8A10AA2780E89@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Mike,

To my eye, although the overall sail shape at the draft stripe looks pretty good, the vertical wrinkles in the aft 2/3 of the sail suggest insufficient horizontal tension.  On my fully battened mainsail, the batten pockets have a couple of overlapping Velcro straps.  These straps are used to compress the battens and pre stretch the fabric.  If I don?t get the tension correct, the result is vertical wrinkles similar to your sail.  What does the sail look like with the Doyle supplied round batten installed?  Because it fits inside the batten pocket, I?m thinking it might provide the horizontal tension the sail needs.

Alsi, it looks like you might have your leech cord a little too tight because the leech has some curl.  But, less leech tension probably won?t cure the vertical wrinkles.

Another experiment you can try, grab the leech up as high as you can reach and pull aft.  If the vertical wrinkles go away; then, this is pretty definitive that you need more horizontal tension.  You may need to cut your old batten until it just fits inside the batten pocket .

As far as wrinkles from shipping, I?m skeptical. it?s true the resin used to seal the porosity in the sailcloth makes it much stiffer and the resin will soften with use.  But, it?s been my experience that a new sail fits the best and has the best sail shape on the day you get it from the sailmaker.  After that, it?s a challenge to maintain that new shape as it slowly degrades.

Roger Pihlaja
S/V Dynamic Equilibrium 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 21, 2022, at 11:42 PM, Graham Stewart <gstewart.gm at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?Personally, I would be very skeptical of that explanation.
> 
> 
>> On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 10:58 PM Michael McKay <mm.bizlist1 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Happy Holiday Fellow Rhodies!
>> 
>> I just installed a new IMF mainsail I ordered from Doyle Barbados.  It
>> came with a round batten which was way too short for the batten pocket.  I
>> installed my old batten which is flat and fit well, although it protrudes
>> about 1/2? out of the pocket.
>> 
>> Doyle claims that round battens became standard for R22 mainsails about
>> 8-10 years ago. Can anyone confirm that?
>> 
>> In addition, the sail has prominent wrinkles behind and below the draft
>> stripe (see attached photo).  Doyle gave me the following explanation?does
>> this sound credible to you?
>> 
>>> The wrinkles you are seeing in the cloth are from shipping creases and
>> impacts from shipping with the sail while being folded. (For example, a
>> package gets dropped on end when in transit and the sail hits the edge of
>> the box with a bit of force on a crease and therefore creates a pinch).
>> This will smooth and flatten out with some use.  I can say that with
>> absolute confidence as you can see from the picture that the wrinkles are
>> not emanating from any  panel seams but instead are coming out of the fold
>> lines. Woven Dacron is sealed with a resin which makes a porous weave
>> closed and therefore efficient for use as a sail. That resin is initially
>> quite hard but softens with use and time, as the sail gets used it will
>> smooth out quite a bit.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Michael McKay
>> s/v Liber, 2006/2108
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>> Name: image.jpg
>> Type: image/jpeg
>> Size: 814857 bytes
>> Desc: not available
>> URL: <
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221221%2F9b02ad0e%2Fattachment.jpg&data=05%7C01%7C%7C5f88feb3425640badfa108dae3d6fa6a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638072809722202148%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=HAKWAUju2raKibp4BRfxWx3UAOOOxHrUoHOaZaKGpa8%3D&reserved=0
>>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Graham Stewart
> Agile 76
> 
> 
> -- 
> Graham Stewart
> Agile 76

From jpd9668 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 22 10:36:55 2022
From: jpd9668 at gmail.com (jpd9668)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2022 10:36:55 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Round batten and wrinkles in new main?
In-Reply-To: <DE244AD5-EBCA-42D3-805D-3A0F1EFF6455@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <63a4799f.4a0a0220.b4df6.1873@mx.google.com>

Mike,?Probably doesn't help much but my 2010 Doyle Main has a flat batten but the bottom is a large sort of know that sometimes drops into the large portion of the boom slot preventing deployment until its pushed back up into the sails pocket.Joe Dempseys/v RespiteDeltaville, VASent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: Michael McKay <mm.bizlist1 at gmail.com> Date: 12/21/22  10:58 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Round batten and wrinkles in new main? Happy Holiday Fellow Rhodies!I just installed a new IMF mainsail I ordered from Doyle Barbados.? It came with a round batten which was way too short for the batten pocket.? I installed my old batten which is flat and fit well, although it protrudes about 1/2? out of the pocket. Doyle claims that round battens became standard for R22 mainsails about 8-10 years ago. Can anyone confirm that?In addition, the sail has prominent wrinkles behind and below the draft stripe (see attached photo).? Doyle gave me the following explanation?does this sound credible to you?> The wrinkles you are seeing in the cloth are from shipping creases and impacts from shipping with the sail while being folded. (For example, a package gets dropped on end when in transit and the sail hits the edge of the box with a bit of force on a crease and therefore creates a pinch). This will smooth and flatten out with some use.? I can say that with absolute confidence as you can see from the picture that the wrinkles are not emanating from any? panel seams but instead are coming out of the fold lines. Woven Dacron is sealed with a resin which makes a porous weave closed and therefore efficient for use as a sail. That resin is initially quite hard but softens with use and time, as the sail gets used it will smooth out quite a bit. Thanks,Michael McKays/v Liber, 2006/2108Sent from my iPhone-------------- next part --------------A non-text attachment was scrubbed...Name: image.jpgType: image/jpegSize: 814857 bytesDesc: not availableURL: <http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221221/9b02ad0e/attachment.jpg>

From edmc18 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 22 11:00:36 2022
From: edmc18 at gmail.com (Ed McNamara)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2022 11:00:36 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Round batten and wrinkles in new main?
In-Reply-To: <63a4799f.4a0a0220.b4df6.1873@mx.google.com>
References: <DE244AD5-EBCA-42D3-805D-3A0F1EFF6455@gmail.com>
 <63a4799f.4a0a0220.b4df6.1873@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAC-_suQ8JWpLUEW7BYWpzf4o9YNyRPvNvcX+GGoEGZe4n6WVdw@mail.gmail.com>

This thread reminds me of a question I've had ever since purchasing
"Scholar", my 1988/2001 Rhodes 22, with Doyle IMF Mainsail.
It has the flat batten with a loop of bungee cord at the base. I've never
been able to figure out how it fits into the pocket, how the bungee loop
functions or, more importantly, what value that short length of vertical
batten serves. I just leave it in the cabin. What am I missing? My boat may
be a Rhodes Scholar but I definitely am not! Help me!!!!!!

Ed McNamara
S/V Scholar

On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 10:37 AM jpd9668 <jpd9668 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Mike, Probably doesn't help much but my 2010 Doyle Main has a flat batten
> but the bottom is a large sort of know that sometimes drops into the large
> portion of the boom slot preventing deployment until its pushed back up
> into the sails pocket.Joe Dempseys/v RespiteDeltaville, VASent via the
> Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone
> -------- Original message --------From: Michael McKay <
> mm.bizlist1 at gmail.com> Date: 12/21/22  10:58 PM  (GMT-05:00) To:
> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Round batten and
> wrinkles in new main? Happy Holiday Fellow Rhodies!I just installed a new
> IMF mainsail I ordered from Doyle Barbados.  It came with a round batten
> which was way too short for the batten pocket.  I installed my old batten
> which is flat and fit well, although it protrudes about 1/2? out of the
> pocket. Doyle claims that round battens became standard for R22 mainsails
> about 8-10 years ago. Can anyone confirm that?In addition, the sail has
> prominent wrinkles behind and below the draft stripe (see attached photo).
> Doyle gave me the following explanation?does this sound credible to you?>
> The wrinkles you are seeing in the cloth are from shipping creases and
> impacts from shipping with the sail while being folded. (For example, a
> package gets dropped on end when in transit and the sail hits the edge of
> the box with a bit of force on a crease and therefore creates a pinch).
> This will smooth and flatten out with some use.  I can say that with
> absolute confidence as you can see from the picture that the wrinkles are
> not emanating from any  panel seams but instead are coming out of the fold
> lines. Woven Dacron is sealed with a resin which makes a porous weave
> closed and therefore efficient for use as a sail. That resin is initially
> quite hard but softens with use and time, as the sail gets used it will
> smooth out quite a bit. Thanks,Michael McKays/v Liber, 2006/2108Sent from
> my iPhone-------------- next part --------------A non-text attachment was
> scrubbed...Name: image.jpgType: image/jpegSize: 814857 bytesDesc: not
> availableURL: <
> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221221/9b02ad0e/attachment.jpg
> >
>

From edmc18 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 22 11:02:40 2022
From: edmc18 at gmail.com (Ed McNamara)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2022 11:02:40 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] R 22 National Rhendezvous
In-Reply-To: <1666578580.986066.1671460678286@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CAM0HAmneRrWf0D7=3J3BTVdL0EPvep8GgwV2ZMp22Uh4NO1_Zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACSd1jL70N614iAig894LNmuJpNn1zuEpd2HaCm4hxRoMmBWhQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <00bd01d91235$ea8ebd10$bfac3730$@gmail.com>
 <1666578580.986066.1671460678286@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAC-_suRS8gcVSX4ijvNuEfcrjjVL0xSEC4-7DsUY8wgk-yQxZg@mail.gmail.com>

Sounds like fun. I might would make the trek from SW Virginia for a meet up
somewhere on the Chesapeake. Sounds like fun.

On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 9:38 AM Mark West via Rhodes22-list <
rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:

> Joe and Mike, the Albemarle sound is my vote also have trailer can travel.
> Connie and I would like to meetup with other Rodies Mark West FairWinds 2
> Hertford NC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jpd9668 at gmail.com
> To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Sat, Dec 17, 2022 11:37 am
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] R 22 National Rhendezvous
>
> Deltaville is located at the mouth of the Rappahannock River on the
> mid-Chesapeake about halfway between Annapolis and Norfolk. Regatta Point
> Yachting Center on Broad Creek about two miles from the mouth, has a club
> house offering great views and a large meeting room for social gatherings.
> There is a fee, of course, and if there is interest, I can find out what it
> is. There are about 10-14 transient slips as well as additional bulkhead
> tie ups as well as pump out station. The Rappahannock is wide enough for
> fine sailing and the famous Tides Inn is on Carter's Creek about 11 miles
> up river that would be a nice lunch location following by a morning sail.
>
> Joe Dempsey
> S/V Respite
> Deltaville, VA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of
> Michael Corley
> Sent: Friday, December 16, 2022 2:54 PM
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] R 22 National Rhendezvous
>
> I vote for Southern Chesapeake or Albemarle Sound, but have trailer - will
> travel!  May or Sept preferred.  We could do the Albemarle Loop with maybe
> a stop in Edenton.  See link below.
>
>  https://albemarleloop.com
>
> -Mike
> s/v Ranger
> Hampton Roads
>
> On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 6:21 AM Jeff Smith Photo <jeffsmithphoto at gmail.com
> >
> wrote:
>
> > I like Rhendezvous!
> > Let's plan for a long weekend (and/or more) in September on the
> Chesapeake.
> > Preparation could include reading James Michner's  great novel
> Chesapeake.
> > Best Regards
> > Jeff Smith
> > www.http://JeffSmithPhoto.Net
> > 732-236-1368
> >
>
>

From C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu  Thu Dec 22 14:23:25 2022
From: C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu (C. Robert Lester)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2022 19:23:25 +0000
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
In-Reply-To: <MW5PR03MB68798807CDAA955C9B1E5A07AEE09@MW5PR03MB6879.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <63821e4f.020a0220.9bd25.39b5@mx.google.com>
 <c5674348-daad-0878-9b7e-814b9df175c8@vt.edu>
 <000201d9041e$513b6fc0$f3b24f40$@gmail.com>
 <CY8PR10MB6683D4528620D2943A4CEFFF80129@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
 <f0d18634-48d9-7382-498d-3774198dc6de@vt.edu>
 <9d4c38a9-5e00-a0a0-7528-73c2e3aa8422@vt.edu>
 <CAB-twMN_dJb0-eHOQC9j3P_2TPx5a=EjrHrOfCMLguGGZLiq=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <7f1370ba-8bc4-69b6-cd58-1ebc3bb27a1a@vt.edu>
 <CY8PR10MB6683BB3DF1A51EFF939EBA5D80189@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
 <f0328b66-295b-bdf5-193c-54bd81fafda9@vt.edu>
 <CY8PR10MB6683566EFE0A80AE89CA4D7480189@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
 <pqj8661eve8i37bki1a1is09.1670963354708@dartmouth.edu>
 <MW5PR03MB68798807CDAA955C9B1E5A07AEE09@MW5PR03MB6879.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <MW5PR03MB68790C5604B51950618F6873AEE89@MW5PR03MB6879.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Forgive me please, 3rd try at attaching pic (size 73 KB).

Bob ?84 ORION



-----Original Message-----

From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org<mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org>> On Behalf Of C. Robert Lester

Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2022 3:29 PM

To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>>

Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22



I'm finally posting a picture of the new rudder on the stern of our boat.

This was after we pulled the boat last week for the season.

You'll notice our old rudder ( for comparison) posted in earlier parts of this thread.

Thank you, Bob



Sent via BlackBerry Hub+ Inbox for Android<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fplay.google.com%2Fstore%2Fapps%2Fdetails%3Fid%3Dcom.blackberry.hub&amp;data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7Ca112d527e95c4fcf533f08dadd8d62b4%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638065896565894409%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=wsnSeiwvS%2BLodNT09%2F4WZtTWCM3ue7DXkHGOdewe34U%3D&amp;reserved=0>

From: roger_pihlaja at msn.com<mailto:roger_pihlaja at msn.com>

Sent: December 5, 2022 12:38 PM

To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>

Reply-to: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>

Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22



Chris,



There were a few years where the IMF mainsail was available; but, the centerboard was the old blade style.  Your boat appears to be one of those.  We would need Stan to say for sure.  But, I think the Diamond Board was introduced to correct the helm balance when the IMF mainsail became so popular.  You may find you need the slight forward tilt of the rudder blade.  I?ve never seen this topic discussed before.



Roger Pihlaja

S/V Dynamic Equilibrium



Sent from my iPhone



> On Dec 5, 2022, at 10:51 AM, Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu<mailto:cknell at vt.edu>> wrote:

>

> ?Roger,

>

> I have the IMF mainsail and the old-style blade centerboard.

>

> I, too, was thinking about that relatively large moment arm of the rudder blade. The resulting leverage would magnify slight changes at the rudder, which, in combination with the relatively flat bottom of the R-22 hull, would make the force applied at the rudder all the more effective (if there were more of a keel, slight changes in the rudder would have much less an overall effect).

>

> On a related note:

> I also sail a Laser (which has a very flat bottom). A few years ago I discovered that I can steer the Laser with the daggerboard. I lock the tiller in a central position and ease the daggerboard up to fall off, down to head up. A change of an inch or so in depth is enough to change the heading a few degrees. This works best when sailing anywhere from a tight reach to a hard beat.

>

> I spent a good amount of time this past season working to balance the R-22 helm with sail adjustments. Next season I'm going to start balancing helm with the rudder up-haul. I've never been so anxious for the season to start (I'll also learn if I put my centerboard back together properly).

>

> Chris

>

>

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From ric at stottarchitecture.com  Thu Dec 22 15:28:25 2022
From: ric at stottarchitecture.com (Ric Stott)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2022 15:28:25 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] IMF Main Sail
Message-ID: <F69A37B0-6C2D-4AE7-A025-BDDBB43068CB@stottarchitecture.com>

Happy Holidays and a Happy New Year to all my Rhodie friends. 
While we seem to be on the main sail subject - - - 
There?s a guy in Massachusetts who has an IMF mast and boom that he?s willing to give up for 500 bucks. 
I have  a continental Rig and feel the main would perform much better than an IMF sail - HOWEVER
I race on a big boat and don?t race my Rhodes. 
I use it primarily for entertainment, sailing out to the islands for clamming or the restaurants for dinner. 
If my wife is with me, I don?t sail to weather - I motor upwind. 
Often, as I sail off the wind,  (Wife aboard) I don?t even bother to hoist the Main sail and sail on the big jib alone, which is fine sometimes and underpowered when it's light air. 
So here is my question: 
If I upgrade the boat to an IMF rig - does anyone have a used IMF Main in reasonable shape for sale? 
Thanks 
Ric 
Sv Dadventure 
Hampotn Bays, NY   


Richard F. Stott, AIA, LEED AP 
ric at stottarchitecture.com
O -631-283-1777
C- 516-965-3164



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From jpd9668 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 22 15:30:55 2022
From: jpd9668 at gmail.com (jpd9668 at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2022 15:30:55 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
In-Reply-To: <MW5PR03MB68790C5604B51950618F6873AEE89@MW5PR03MB6879.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <63821e4f.020a0220.9bd25.39b5@mx.google.com>
 <c5674348-daad-0878-9b7e-814b9df175c8@vt.edu>
 <000201d9041e$513b6fc0$f3b24f40$@gmail.com>
 <CY8PR10MB6683D4528620D2943A4CEFFF80129@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
 <f0d18634-48d9-7382-498d-3774198dc6de@vt.edu>
 <9d4c38a9-5e00-a0a0-7528-73c2e3aa8422@vt.edu>
 <CAB-twMN_dJb0-eHOQC9j3P_2TPx5a=EjrHrOfCMLguGGZLiq=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <7f1370ba-8bc4-69b6-cd58-1ebc3bb27a1a@vt.edu>
 <CY8PR10MB6683BB3DF1A51EFF939EBA5D80189@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
 <f0328b66-295b-bdf5-193c-54bd81fafda9@vt.edu>
 <CY8PR10MB6683566EFE0A80AE89CA4D7480189@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
 <pqj8661eve8i37bki1a1is09.1670963354708@dartmouth.edu>
 <MW5PR03MB68798807CDAA955C9B1E5A07AEE09@MW5PR03MB6879.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <MW5PR03MB68790C5604B51950618F6873AEE89@MW5PR03MB6879.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <06bc01d91644$53a21a60$fae64f20$@gmail.com>

Nothing there Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of C. Robert Lester
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2022 2:23 PM
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22

Forgive me please, 3rd try at attaching pic (size 73 KB).

Bob ?84 ORION



-----Original Message-----

From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org<mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org>> On Behalf Of C. Robert Lester

Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2022 3:29 PM

To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>>

Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22



I'm finally posting a picture of the new rudder on the stern of our boat.

This was after we pulled the boat last week for the season.

You'll notice our old rudder ( for comparison) posted in earlier parts of this thread.

Thank you, Bob



Sent via BlackBerry Hub+ Inbox for Android<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fplay.google.com%2Fstore%2Fapps%2Fdetails%3Fid%3Dcom.blackberry.hub&amp;data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7Ca112d527e95c4fcf533f08dadd8d62b4%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638065896565894409%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=wsnSeiwvS%2BLodNT09%2F4WZtTWCM3ue7DXkHGOdewe34U%3D&amp;reserved=0>

From: roger_pihlaja at msn.com<mailto:roger_pihlaja at msn.com>

Sent: December 5, 2022 12:38 PM

To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>

Reply-to: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>

Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22



Chris,



There were a few years where the IMF mainsail was available; but, the centerboard was the old blade style.  Your boat appears to be one of those.  We would need Stan to say for sure.  But, I think the Diamond Board was introduced to correct the helm balance when the IMF mainsail became so popular.  You may find you need the slight forward tilt of the rudder blade.  I?ve never seen this topic discussed before.



Roger Pihlaja

S/V Dynamic Equilibrium



Sent from my iPhone



> On Dec 5, 2022, at 10:51 AM, Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu<mailto:cknell at vt.edu>> wrote:

>

> ?Roger,

>

> I have the IMF mainsail and the old-style blade centerboard.

>

> I, too, was thinking about that relatively large moment arm of the rudder blade. The resulting leverage would magnify slight changes at the rudder, which, in combination with the relatively flat bottom of the R-22 hull, would make the force applied at the rudder all the more effective (if there were more of a keel, slight changes in the rudder would have much less an overall effect).

>

> On a related note:

> I also sail a Laser (which has a very flat bottom). A few years ago I discovered that I can steer the Laser with the daggerboard. I lock the tiller in a central position and ease the daggerboard up to fall off, down to head up. A change of an inch or so in depth is enough to change the heading a few degrees. This works best when sailing anywhere from a tight reach to a hard beat.

>

> I spent a good amount of time this past season working to balance the R-22 helm with sail adjustments. Next season I'm going to start balancing helm with the rudder up-haul. I've never been so anxious for the season to start (I'll also learn if I put my centerboard back together properly).

>

> Chris

>

>

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From peter at sunnybeeches.com  Thu Dec 22 16:27:51 2022
From: peter at sunnybeeches.com (Peter Nyberg)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2022 16:27:51 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
In-Reply-To: <06bc01d91644$53a21a60$fae64f20$@gmail.com>
References: <63821e4f.020a0220.9bd25.39b5@mx.google.com>
 <c5674348-daad-0878-9b7e-814b9df175c8@vt.edu>
 <000201d9041e$513b6fc0$f3b24f40$@gmail.com>
 <CY8PR10MB6683D4528620D2943A4CEFFF80129@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
 <f0d18634-48d9-7382-498d-3774198dc6de@vt.edu>
 <9d4c38a9-5e00-a0a0-7528-73c2e3aa8422@vt.edu>
 <CAB-twMN_dJb0-eHOQC9j3P_2TPx5a=EjrHrOfCMLguGGZLiq=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <7f1370ba-8bc4-69b6-cd58-1ebc3bb27a1a@vt.edu>
 <CY8PR10MB6683BB3DF1A51EFF939EBA5D80189@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
 <f0328b66-295b-bdf5-193c-54bd81fafda9@vt.edu>
 <CY8PR10MB6683566EFE0A80AE89CA4D7480189@CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
 <pqj8661eve8i37bki1a1is09.1670963354708@dartmouth.edu>
 <MW5PR03MB68798807CDAA955C9B1E5A07AEE09@MW5PR03MB6879.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <MW5PR03MB68790C5604B51950618F6873AEE89@MW5PR03MB6879.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <06bc01d91644$53a21a60$fae64f20$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0DAC66DD-7A28-40E2-B746-1E4A4A924C7E@sunnybeeches.com>

Yes there is.  A link to the picture 'Rhodes22 Rudder Comparison.jpg? is part of Bob?s posting, at the very bottom, as usual.

?Peter

> On Dec 22, 2022, at 3:30 PM, <jpd9668 at gmail.com> <jpd9668 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Nothing there Bob
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of C. Robert Lester
> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2022 2:23 PM
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> 
> Forgive me please, 3rd try at attaching pic (size 73 KB).
> 
> Bob ?84 ORION
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> 
> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org<mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org>> On Behalf Of C. Robert Lester
> 
> Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2022 3:29 PM
> 
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>>
> 
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> 
> 
> 
> I'm finally posting a picture of the new rudder on the stern of our boat.
> 
> This was after we pulled the boat last week for the season.
> 
> You'll notice our old rudder ( for comparison) posted in earlier parts of this thread.
> 
> Thank you, Bob
> 
> 
> 
> Sent via BlackBerry Hub+ Inbox for Android<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fplay.google.com%2Fstore%2Fapps%2Fdetails%3Fid%3Dcom.blackberry.hub&amp;data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7Ca112d527e95c4fcf533f08dadd8d62b4%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638065896565894409%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=wsnSeiwvS%2BLodNT09%2F4WZtTWCM3ue7DXkHGOdewe34U%3D&amp;reserved=0>
> 
> From: roger_pihlaja at msn.com<mailto:roger_pihlaja at msn.com>
> 
> Sent: December 5, 2022 12:38 PM
> 
> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> 
> Reply-to: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> 
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> 
> 
> 
> Chris,
> 
> 
> 
> There were a few years where the IMF mainsail was available; but, the centerboard was the old blade style.  Your boat appears to be one of those.  We would need Stan to say for sure.  But, I think the Diamond Board was introduced to correct the helm balance when the IMF mainsail became so popular.  You may find you need the slight forward tilt of the rudder blade.  I?ve never seen this topic discussed before.
> 
> 
> 
> Roger Pihlaja
> 
> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 5, 2022, at 10:51 AM, Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu<mailto:cknell at vt.edu>> wrote:
> 
>> 
> 
>> ?Roger,
> 
>> 
> 
>> I have the IMF mainsail and the old-style blade centerboard.
> 
>> 
> 
>> I, too, was thinking about that relatively large moment arm of the rudder blade. The resulting leverage would magnify slight changes at the rudder, which, in combination with the relatively flat bottom of the R-22 hull, would make the force applied at the rudder all the more effective (if there were more of a keel, slight changes in the rudder would have much less an overall effect).
> 
>> 
> 
>> On a related note:
> 
>> I also sail a Laser (which has a very flat bottom). A few years ago I discovered that I can steer the Laser with the daggerboard. I lock the tiller in a central position and ease the daggerboard up to fall off, down to head up. A change of an inch or so in depth is enough to change the heading a few degrees. This works best when sailing anywhere from a tight reach to a hard beat.
> 
>> 
> 
>> I spent a good amount of time this past season working to balance the R-22 helm with sail adjustments. Next season I'm going to start balancing helm with the rudder up-haul. I've never been so anxious for the season to start (I'll also learn if I put my centerboard back together properly).
> 
>> 
> 
>> Chris
> 
>> 
> 
>> 
> 
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From jpd9668 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 22 18:02:32 2022
From: jpd9668 at gmail.com (jpd9668)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2022 18:02:32 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
In-Reply-To: <MW5PR03MB68790C5604B51950618F6873AEE89@MW5PR03MB6879.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <63a4e52d.9d0a0220.51e10.49d1@mx.google.com>

I, too, apologize, Robert. Somehow the link "merged" with the lailend link of my email and can't be separated. I picked up off of another email client.? Unless they are remakes, I saw those a week or so ago. You're rudder was definitely bent.Regards,Joe Dempsey?s/v RespiteDeltaville, VASent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: "C. Robert Lester" <C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu> Date: 12/22/22  2:23 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 Forgive me please, 3rd try at attaching pic (size 73 KB).Bob ?84 ORION-----Original Message-----From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org<mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org>> On Behalf Of C. Robert LesterSent: Tuesday, December 13, 2022 3:29 PMTo: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22I'm finally posting a picture of the new rudder on the stern of our boat.This was after we pulled the boat last week for the season.You'll notice our old rudder ( for comparison) posted in earlier parts of this thread.Thank you, BobSent via BlackBerry Hub+ Inbox for Android<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fplay.google.com%2Fstore%2Fapps%2Fdetails%3Fid%3Dcom.blackberry.hub&amp;data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7Ca112d527e95c4fcf533f08dadd8d62b4%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638065896565894409%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=wsnSeiwvS%2BLodNT09%2F4WZtTWCM3ue7DXkHGOdewe34U%3D&amp;reserved=0>From: roger_pihlaja at msn.com<mailto:roger_pihlaja at msn.com>Sent: December 5, 2022 12:38 PMTo: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>Reply-to: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22Chris,There were a few years where the IMF mainsail was available; but, the centerboard was the old blade style.? Your boat appears to be one of those.? We would need Stan to say for sure.? But, I think the Diamond Board was introduced to correct the helm balance when the IMF mainsail became so popular.? You may find you need the slight forward tilt of the rudder blade.? I?ve never seen this topic discussed before.Roger PihlajaS/V Dynamic EquilibriumSent from my iPhone> On Dec 5, 2022, at 10:51 AM, Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu<mailto:cknell at vt.edu>> wrote:>> ?Roger,>> I have the IMF mainsail and the old-style blade centerboard.>> I, too, was thinking about that relatively large moment arm of the rudder blade. The resulting leverage would magnify slight changes at the rudder, which, in combination with the relatively flat bottom of the R-22 hull, would make the force applied at the rudder all the more effective (if there were more of a keel, slight changes in the rudder would have much less an overall effect).>> On a related note:> I also sail a Laser (which has a very flat bottom). A few years ago I discovered that I can steer the Laser with the daggerboard. I lock the tiller in a central position and ease the daggerboard up to fall off, down to head up. A change of an inch or so in depth is enough to change the heading a few degrees. This works best when sailing anywhere from a tight reach to a hard beat.>> I spent a good amount of time this past season working to balance the R-22 helm with sail adjustments. Next season I'm going to start balancing helm with the rudder up-haul. I've never been so anxious for the season to start (I'll also learn if I put my centerboard back together properly).>> Chris>>-------------- next part --------------A non-text attachment was scrubbed...Name: IMG_20221208_140253_701.jpgType: image/jpegSize: 268693 bytesDesc: IMG_20221208_140253_701.jpgURL: <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221213%2F06ded66a%2Fattachment.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7Ca112d527e95c4fcf533f08dadd8d62b4%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638065896565894409%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=1YydjASk%2FlH7g69nPm1sD0fvjYH%2F4YVKN4BN9%2FrRG1M%3D&amp;reserved=0>-------------- next part --------------A non-text attachment was scrubbed...Name: IMG_20221208_140253_701R22.jpgType: image/jpegSize: 395908 bytesDesc: IMG_20221208_140253_701R22.jpgURL: <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221214%2F1dc35688%2Fattachment.jpg&amp;data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7Ca112d527e95c4fcf533f08dadd8d62b4%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638065896565894409%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=%2ByukOrTgR9keWuxyzGI1akwW%2B9MCkytyNua139jVYUA%3D&amp;reserved=0>-------------- next part --------------A non-text attachment was scrubbed...Name: Rhodes22 Rudder Comparison.jpgType: image/jpegSize: 75240 bytesDesc: Rhodes22 Rudder Comparison.jpgURL: <http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221222/03e01b76/attachment.jpg>

From chrisgeankoplis at gmail.com  Fri Dec 23 00:11:04 2022
From: chrisgeankoplis at gmail.com (Chris Geankoplis)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2022 23:11:04 -0600
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] IMF Main Sail
In-Reply-To: <F69A37B0-6C2D-4AE7-A025-BDDBB43068CB@stottarchitecture.com>
References: <F69A37B0-6C2D-4AE7-A025-BDDBB43068CB@stottarchitecture.com>
Message-ID: <CADNTwiX63Nw67-yiNoXirPjs1cxehio7Rp0pkOQrnymQ7kW5hg@mail.gmail.com>

Rick, get that IMF in  NY minute!  So many advantages that I paid to ship
my IMF equipped Rhodes over to Spain so I would have it on the Med
adventure. Really makes sailing so enjoyable.
Chris Geankoplis
Xenos
On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 2:28 PM Ric Stott <ric at stottarchitecture.com> wrote:

> Happy Holidays and a Happy New Year to all my Rhodie friends.
> While we seem to be on the main sail subject - - -
> There?s a guy in Massachusetts who has an IMF mast and boom that he?s
> willing to give up for 500 bucks.
> I have  a continental Rig and feel the main would perform much better than
> an IMF sail - HOWEVER
> I race on a big boat and don?t race my Rhodes.
> I use it primarily for entertainment, sailing out to the islands for
> clamming or the restaurants for dinner.
> If my wife is with me, I don?t sail to weather - I motor upwind.
> Often, as I sail off the wind,  (Wife aboard) I don?t even bother to hoist
> the Main sail and sail on the big jib alone, which is fine sometimes and
> underpowered when it's light air.
> So here is my question:
> If I upgrade the boat to an IMF rig - does anyone have a used IMF Main in
> reasonable shape for sale?
> Thanks
> Ric
> Sv Dadventure
> Hampotn Bays, NY
>
>
> Richard F. Stott, AIA, LEED AP
> ric at stottarchitecture.com
> O -631-283-1777
> C- 516-965-3164
>
>
>
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>

From ric at stottarchitecture.com  Fri Dec 30 17:31:26 2022
From: ric at stottarchitecture.com (Ric Stott)
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2022 17:31:26 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] IMF Mast & Sail
Message-ID: <930C8235-5CF8-4D54-8AC4-CB8A9622E129@stottarchitecture.com>

Happy New Year Rhodies ! 
I have a few questions - - - 
Sorry if I?m repeating myself. 
I received favorable replies to my previous question about the value of the change. 
To reiterate. 
I have the opportunity to convert my 1986 Continental Rig to and IMF mast and main sail. 
There is a mast for sale in Mass. for $500  and a mainsail somewhere else for $400.
The mast, spreaders, furling tube  and boom are apparently complete except for the shrouds. 
I happen to have a spare set of shrouds from yet another Continual style mast I have.
The Sail is 2009 vintage.  I assume it will cast a few hundred dollars in spare parts or part changes, like the pop top connector, electrical/lights connector changes, etc. 
Questions:
Are the shrouds the same for both Continental and IMF masts?
Any other parts I should be aware of that might need replacing? 
Where can I find IMF sail rigging guide? 
Is there a vertical batten in all or just some of them? 
Are they flat or round? 
Does that matter? 
Any issues with old sails and furling? 
Thank you and  HAPPY NEW YEAR!
 
?





Richard F. Stott, AIA, LEED AP 
ric at stottarchitecture.com
O -631-283-1777
C- 516-965-3164



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From peter at sunnybeeches.com  Sat Dec 31 17:44:00 2022
From: peter at sunnybeeches.com (Peter Nyberg)
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2022 14:44:00 -0800
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] IMF Mast and Sail
Message-ID: <E1pBka8-001hlx-SY@s152.servername.online>

Ric,

I don't recall anyone ever posting about a conversion from a 'standard' rig to an IMF rig in the past, so I'm not surprised by the lack of response to your questions.  How many people have experience with both?  Stan probably know the answers to some of your questions, but it seems unlikely that we'll hear from him on this.

I can answer one question: my IMF main has no batten (I'm pretty sure).

So, as you sail into uncharted territory (metaphorically speaking), I would encourage you to fully document the conversion process.  If you could create a nice PDF document, it could find a place in the Document Library section.

--Peter

> On 2022-12-30, at 17:31:26 EST, Ric Stott wrote:
>
> Happy New Year Rhodies !
> I have a few questions - - -
> Sorry if I?m repeating myself.
> I received favorable replies to my previous question about the value of the 
> change. 
> To reiterate.
> I have the opportunity to convert my 1986 Continental Rig to and IMF mast and 
> main sail. 
> There is a mast for sale in Mass. for $500  and a mainsail somewhere else for 
> $400. 
> The mast, spreaders, furling tube  and boom are apparently complete except for 
> the shrouds. 
> I happen to have a spare set of shrouds from yet another Continual style mast I 
> have. 
> The Sail is 2009 vintage.  I assume it will cast a few hundred dollars in spare 
> parts or part changes, like the pop top connector, electrical/lights connector 
> changes, etc. 
> Questions:
> Are the shrouds the same for both Continental and IMF masts? Any other parts I 
> should be aware of that might need replacing? Where can I find IMF sail rigging 
> guide? 
> Is there a vertical batten in all or just some of them?
> Are they flat or round?
> Does that matter?
> Any issues with old sails and furling?
> Thank you and  HAPPY NEW YEAR!
> 
> ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Richard F. Stott, AIA, LEED AP
> <a href="http://rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list">ric at 
> stottarchitecture.com</a> 
> O -631-283-1777
> C- 516-965-3164
> 
> 
> 
> 
> <a 
> href="http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221230/5b9e2573/attachment.jpeg" 
> target="_blank">IMG_0424.jpeg</a> 
> 


From ric at stottarchitecture.com  Sat Dec 31 17:51:40 2022
From: ric at stottarchitecture.com (Ric Stott)
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2022 17:51:40 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] IMF Mast and Sail
In-Reply-To: <E1pBka8-001hlx-SY@s152.servername.online>
References: <E1pBka8-001hlx-SY@s152.servername.online>
Message-ID: <72AD5638-9EA3-4029-B66D-78DD2BF414F7@stottarchitecture.com>

Thanks Peter.
Looks like it will be another Dadventure. 
I?ll document it all.
Is there some resource where I can get shroud lengths for the IMF mast? 
Ric 
Daventure 
 

Richard F. Stott, AIA, LEED AP 
ric at stottarchitecture.com
O -631-283-1777
C- 516-965-3164



> On Dec 31, 2022, at 5:44 PM, Peter Nyberg <peter at sunnybeeches.com> wrote:
> 
> Ric,
> 
> I don't recall anyone ever posting about a conversion from a 'standard' rig to an IMF rig in the past, so I'm not surprised by the lack of response to your questions.  How many people have experience with both?  Stan probably know the answers to some of your questions, but it seems unlikely that we'll hear from him on this.
> 
> I can answer one question: my IMF main has no batten (I'm pretty sure).
> 
> So, as you sail into uncharted territory (metaphorically speaking), I would encourage you to fully document the conversion process.  If you could create a nice PDF document, it could find a place in the Document Library section.
> 
> --Peter
> 
>> On 2022-12-30, at 17:31:26 EST, Ric Stott wrote:
>> 
>> Happy New Year Rhodies !
>> I have a few questions - - -
>> Sorry if I?m repeating myself.
>> I received favorable replies to my previous question about the value of the 
>> change. 
>> To reiterate.
>> I have the opportunity to convert my 1986 Continental Rig to and IMF mast and 
>> main sail. 
>> There is a mast for sale in Mass. for $500  and a mainsail somewhere else for 
>> $400. 
>> The mast, spreaders, furling tube  and boom are apparently complete except for 
>> the shrouds. 
>> I happen to have a spare set of shrouds from yet another Continual style mast I 
>> have. 
>> The Sail is 2009 vintage.  I assume it will cast a few hundred dollars in spare 
>> parts or part changes, like the pop top connector, electrical/lights connector 
>> changes, etc. 
>> Questions:
>> Are the shrouds the same for both Continental and IMF masts? Any other parts I 
>> should be aware of that might need replacing? Where can I find IMF sail rigging 
>> guide? 
>> Is there a vertical batten in all or just some of them?
>> Are they flat or round?
>> Does that matter?
>> Any issues with old sails and furling?
>> Thank you and  HAPPY NEW YEAR!
>> 
>> ?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Richard F. Stott, AIA, LEED AP
>> <a href="http://rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list">ric at 
>> stottarchitecture.com</a> 
>> O -631-283-1777
>> C- 516-965-3164
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> <a 
>> href="http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221230/5b9e2573/attachment.jpeg" 
>> target="_blank">IMG_0424.jpeg</a> 
>> 
> 


From jpd9668 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 31 23:02:56 2022
From: jpd9668 at gmail.com (jpd9668)
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2022 23:02:56 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] IMF Mast and Sail
In-Reply-To: <72AD5638-9EA3-4029-B66D-78DD2BF414F7@stottarchitecture.com>
Message-ID: <63b10604.050a0220.2e999.b9ab@mx.google.com>

Yes.?Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: Ric Stott <ric at stottarchitecture.com> Date: 12/31/22  5:51 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] IMF Mast and Sail Thanks Peter.Looks like it will be another Dadventure. I?ll document it all.Is there some resource where I can get shroud lengths for the IMF mast? Ric Daventure  Richard F. Stott, AIA, LEED AP ric at stottarchitecture.comO -631-283-1777C- 516-965-3164> On Dec 31, 2022, at 5:44 PM, Peter Nyberg <peter at sunnybeeches.com> wrote:> > Ric,> > I don't recall anyone ever posting about a conversion from a 'standard' rig to an IMF rig in the past, so I'm not surprised by the lack of response to your questions.? How many people have experience with both?? Stan probably know the answers to some of your questions, but it seems unlikely that we'll hear from him on this.> > I can answer one question: my IMF main has no batten (I'm pretty sure).> > So, as you sail into uncharted territory (metaphorically speaking), I would encourage you to fully document the conversion process.? If you could create a nice PDF document, it could find a place in the Document Library section.> > --Peter> >> On 2022-12-30, at 17:31:26 EST, Ric Stott wrote:>> >> Happy New Year Rhodies !>> I have a few questions - - ->> Sorry if I?m repeating myself.>> I received favorable replies to my previous question about the value of the >> change. >> To reiterate.>> I have the opportunity to convert my 1986 Continental Rig to and IMF mast and >> main sail. >> There is a mast for sale in Mass. for $500? and a mainsail somewhere else for >> $400. >> The mast, spreaders, furling tube? and boom are apparently complete except for >> the shrouds. >> I happen to have a spare set of shrouds from yet another Continual style mast I >> have. >> The Sail is 2009 vintage.? I assume it will cast a few hundred dollars in spare >> parts or part changes, like the pop top connector, electrical/lights connector >> changes, etc. >> Questions:>> Are the shrouds the same for both Continental and IMF masts? Any other parts I >> should be aware of that might need replacing? Where can I find IMF sail rigging >> guide? >> Is there a vertical batten in all or just some of them?>> Are they flat or round?>> Does that matter?>> Any issues with old sails and furling?>> Thank you and? HAPPY NEW YEAR!>> >> ?>> >> >> >> >> >> Richard F. Stott, AIA, LEED AP>> <a href="http://rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list">ric at >> stottarchitecture.com</a> >> O -631-283-1777>> C- 516-965-3164>> >> >> >> >> <a >> href="http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221230/5b9e2573/attachment.jpeg" >> target="_blank">IMG_0424.jpeg</a> >> > 

From jpd9668 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 31 23:06:39 2022
From: jpd9668 at gmail.com (jpd9668)
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2022 23:06:39 -0500
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] IMF Mast and Sail
In-Reply-To: <72AD5638-9EA3-4029-B66D-78DD2BF414F7@stottarchitecture.com>
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Dwyer Aluminum Mast Co.https://www.dwyermast.com/Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: Ric Stott <ric at stottarchitecture.com> Date: 12/31/22  5:51 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] IMF Mast and Sail Thanks Peter.Looks like it will be another Dadventure. I?ll document it all.Is there some resource where I can get shroud lengths for the IMF mast? Ric Daventure  Richard F. Stott, AIA, LEED AP ric at stottarchitecture.comO -631-283-1777C- 516-965-3164> On Dec 31, 2022, at 5:44 PM, Peter Nyberg <peter at sunnybeeches.com> wrote:> > Ric,> > I don't recall anyone ever posting about a conversion from a 'standard' rig to an IMF rig in the past, so I'm not surprised by the lack of response to your questions.? How many people have experience with both?? Stan probably know the answers to some of your questions, but it seems unlikely that we'll hear from him on this.> > I can answer one question: my IMF main has no batten (I'm pretty sure).> > So, as you sail into uncharted territory (metaphorically speaking), I would encourage you to fully document the conversion process.? If you could create a nice PDF document, it could find a place in the Document Library section.> > --Peter> >> On 2022-12-30, at 17:31:26 EST, Ric Stott wrote:>> >> Happy New Year Rhodies !>> I have a few questions - - ->> Sorry if I?m repeating myself.>> I received favorable replies to my previous question about the value of the >> change. >> To reiterate.>> I have the opportunity to convert my 1986 Continental Rig to and IMF mast and >> main sail. >> There is a mast for sale in Mass. for $500? and a mainsail somewhere else for >> $400. >> The mast, spreaders, furling tube? and boom are apparently complete except for >> the shrouds. >> I happen to have a spare set of shrouds from yet another Continual style mast I >> have. >> The Sail is 2009 vintage.? I assume it will cast a few hundred dollars in spare >> parts or part changes, like the pop top connector, electrical/lights connector >> changes, etc. >> Questions:>> Are the shrouds the same for both Continental and IMF masts? Any other parts I >> should be aware of that might need replacing? Where can I find IMF sail rigging >> guide? >> Is there a vertical batten in all or just some of them?>> Are they flat or round?>> Does that matter?>> Any issues with old sails and furling?>> Thank you and? HAPPY NEW YEAR!>> >> ?>> >> >> >> >> >> Richard F. Stott, AIA, LEED AP>> <a href="http://rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list">ric at >> stottarchitecture.com</a> >> O -631-283-1777>> C- 516-965-3164>> >> >> >> >> <a >> href="http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221230/5b9e2573/attachment.jpeg" >> target="_blank">IMG_0424.jpeg</a> >> >