[Rhodes22-list] Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 4477, Issue 1
Stephen Staum
snstaum at gmail.com
Sun Dec 4 12:07:31 EST 2022
Can we get more info? Is there an ad posted somewhere? Pictures?
Where is the boat located?
I may be in the market.
*Thanks and Stay Well,*
*Stephen Staum*
*s/v Pinafore (I hope)*
*Needham, MA*
On Sun, Dec 4, 2022 at 10:41 AM Scott McFall <scott at hypnosisconnection.com>
wrote:
> I am selling my 2008 Rhodes 22 if anyone is looking. I am wanting 17500.
> Not sure if we do that in this feed or not
>
> > On Dec 4, 2022, at 10:38 AM, rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org wrote:
> >
> > Send Rhodes22-list mailing list submissions to
> > rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > http://rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org
> >
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> > rhodes22-list-owner at rhodes22.org
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Rhodes22-list digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (jpd9668)
> > 2. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (jpd9668)
> > 3. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (jpd9668)
> > 4. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Chris on LBI)
> > 5. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (jpd9668 at gmail.com)
> > 6. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (ROGER PIHLAJA)
> > 7. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Chris on LBI)
> > 8. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Chris on LBI)
> > 9. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (jpd9668)
> > 10. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Chris on LBI)
> > 11. Removing Gas from Fuel Line (Lee Kuhn)
> > 12. Re: Removing Gas from Fuel Line (Peter Nyberg)
> > 13. Re: Removing Gas from Fuel Line (ROGER PIHLAJA)
> > 14. Re: Removing Gas from Fuel Line (cjlowe at sssnet.com)
> > 15. Re: Removing Gas from Fuel Line (Lee Kuhn)
> > 16. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Chris on LBI)
> > 17. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Mary Lou Troy)
> > 18. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Todd Tavares)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2022 09:03:58 -0500
> > From: jpd9668 <jpd9668 at gmail.com>
> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> > Message-ID: <63821cdb.020a0220.9bd25.399c at mx.google.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > I don't know what definition of curve is, but there is none unless it's
> in the plane of the surface which is probably the result of the layup of
> the fibreglass.Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone
> > -------- Original message --------From: ROGER PIHLAJA <
> roger_pihlaja at msn.com> Date: 11/25/22 5:48 PM (GMT-05:00) To: The
> Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re:
> [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 Bob,I agree with Peter.? If
> there are any differences between the two rudders, they are not readily
> apparent in the photos.? Is there any measurable difference in parameters
> like maximum thickness, chord length from the leading edge to point of
> maximum thickness, etc?? Is there any asymetery in the curvature of the
> hydrofoil on each side? Both rudders appear to be straight.? What do you
> mean by ?curved??Roger PihlajaS/V Dynamic EquilibriumSent from my iPhone>
> On Nov 25, 2022, at 5:26 PM, Peter Nyberg <peter at sunnybeeches.com>
> wrote:> > ?Bob,> > You seem happy with your new rudder, and so I'm happy
> for you as well, but those two rudders look pretty much the same to me.> >
> --Peter> >> On 2022-11-25, at 17:09:29 EST, C. Robert Lester wrote:>> >>
> I'm the
> > new owner of a rudder off an '82 R22.>> Cannot wait to sail / race next
> sailing season.>> Took some pics of my '84 Rudder (curved, black/red) and
> '82 Rudder (white) side >> by side. >> The boats are only 2 years apart but
> the rudder heads as well as the rudders are >> not similar at all. >> I was
> going to buy the '82 stern rail as well but that is even a different mount
> >> and size from my '84. >> Comments, questions?>> >> Thanks all,>> Bob>>
> '84 ORION>> >> >> >> >> <a >> href="
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment.jpg&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cd09861f000784a7cb42808dacf340f30%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638050119754738534%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=2%2FlYlSVnEpTnaNqcJ6KcohYH5Mp6bJicXQXi5es2bCg%3D&reserved=0"
> >> target="_blank">Rudder 1a.jpg</a> >> >> <a
> >>> href="
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0001.jpg&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cd09861f000784a7cb42808dacf340f30%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638050119754738534%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=jb%2FqyXGnRhbl%2B96mT3YAC7z6k%2FGWx16Nu09%2Bv%2BBz3pU%3D&reserved=0"
> >> target="_blank">Rudder 2a.jpg</a> >> >> <a >> href="
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0002.jpg&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cd09861f000784a7cb42808dacf340f30%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638050119754738534%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=1gLAUSJD%2FLJHorQ5gSy79T%2B9EPYD3M5%2Bf6hkidjNvnY%3D&a
> > mp;reserved=0" >> target="_blank">Rudder 3a.jpg</a> >> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2022 09:10:09 -0500
> > From: jpd9668 <jpd9668 at gmail.com>
> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> > Message-ID: <63821e4f.020a0220.9bd25.39b5 at mx.google.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Well, that's not good. Its bent! Don't know what would cause that, but I
> would think that it will affect performance through increased drag. Roger
> would know better than I.?Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G
> smartphone
> > -------- Original message --------From: "C. Robert Lester" <
> C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu> Date: 11/25/22 7:17 PM (GMT-05:00) To:
> The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re:
> [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 Thanks Peter.Forgive me for
> not being able to capture the differences in shape with the first pics.Here
> is the original pic that I posted. (Yes, that is snow on the ground when I
> pulled her at end of season.).Note:Tiller handle was placed,
> centerline.Rudder head at top you can see bolts & nuts both sides.Rudder is
> twisted to port, but curved to Starboard.I hope this is helpful.Not the
> pics yesterday show the "patches" of repair that were exposed by pressure
> washing off the red and black paint this summer.Bob'84 Orion-----Original
> Message-----From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On
> Behalf Of Peter NybergSent: Friday, November 25, 2022 5:26 PMTo:
> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.orgSubject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84
> > Rhodes 22Bob,You seem happy with your new rudder, and so I'm happy for
> you as well, but those two rudders look pretty much the same to me.--Peter>
> On 2022-11-25, at 17:09:29 EST, C. Robert Lester wrote:>> I'm the new owner
> of a rudder off an '82 R22.> Cannot wait to sail / race next sailing
> season.> Took some pics of my '84 Rudder (curved, black/red) and '82 Rudder
> > (white) side by side.> The boats are only 2 years apart but the rudder
> heads as well as the > rudders are not similar at all.> I was going to buy
> the '82 stern rail as well but that is even a > different mount and size
> from my '84.> Comments, questions?> > Thanks all,> Bob> '84 ORION> > > > >
> <a> href="
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment.jpg&data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C91e9c5d0f0f848ba822108dacf340ef6%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050119769164077%7CUnk
> >
> nown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=jAH1SgjXpqNVYA9DFo%2BOaW51Yru7cRlFl1y%2Fk5WFwDs%3D&reserved=0"
> > target="_blank">Rudder 1a.jpg</a>> > <a> href="
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0001.jpg&data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C91e9c5d0f0f848ba822108dacf340ef6%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050119769164077%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=bhZbS3G14v5gWsMzgfXiKpbleK6dYLGM5Kfquowb1Kg%3D&reserved=0"
> > target="_blank">Rudder 2a.jpg</a>> > <a> href="
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0002.jpg&data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C9
> >
> 1e9c5d0f0f848ba822108dacf340ef6%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050119769164077%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=vjTwF84WbZig1mFjUzfjKx6C0y9II68CqjER8ceXTfU%3D&reserved=0"
> > target="_blank">Rudder 3a.jpg</a>> -------------- next part
> --------------A non-text attachment was scrubbed...Name: Rudder 4a.jpgType:
> image/jpegSize: 413162 bytesDesc: Rudder 4a.jpgURL: <
> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221126/a02587b5/attachment.jpg
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2022 09:13:30 -0500
> > From: jpd9668 <jpd9668 at gmail.com>
> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> > Message-ID: <63821f0f.020a0220.9bd25.39be at mx.google.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > ?I don't think there's any difference between 82 and 84 or any other
> year rudders. Don't stigmatize '84 rudders!Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S22
> 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone
> > -------- Original message --------From: "C. Robert Lester" <
> C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu> Date: 11/25/22 9:31 PM (GMT-05:00) To:
> The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re:
> [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 Thanks Roger.Sailing the last
> 10 yrs of ORION has been favored port tack, with a Catalina 22 rudder
> tiller.It will be nice next season to see how this '82 rudder tacks?Bob'84
> ORION-----Original Message-----From: Rhodes22-list <
> rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of ROGER PIHLAJASent:
> Friday, November 25, 2022 8:33 PMTo: The Rhodes 22 Email List <
> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder |
> 84 Rhodes 22Hi Bob,OK, now I see what you mean.? Is that much misalignment
> noticeable under sail??? Is the tiller position different to go straight
> ahead on port tack vs starboard tack?Anyway, I don?t think there is any way
> to fix that rudder blade.? So, you did the right thing to replace it.Roger
> PihlajaS/V Dynami
> > c EquilibriumSent from my iPhone> On Nov 25, 2022, at 7:17 PM, C. Robert
> Lester <C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu> wrote:> > ?Thanks Peter.> Forgive
> me for not being able to capture the differences in shape with the first
> pics.> Here is the original pic that I posted. (Yes, that is snow on the
> ground when I pulled her at end of season.).> Note:> Tiller handle was
> placed, centerline.> Rudder head at top you can see bolts & nuts both
> sides.> Rudder is twisted to port, but curved to Starboard.> I hope this is
> helpful.> Not the pics yesterday show the "patches" of repair that were
> exposed by pressure washing off the red and black paint this summer.> Bob>
> '84 Orion> > > -----Original Message-----> From: Rhodes22-list <
> rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of > Peter Nyberg> Sent:
> Friday, November 25, 2022 5:26 PM> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Bob,> > You
> seem happy with your new rudder, and so I'm happy for you
> > as well, but those two rudders look pretty much the same to me.> >
> --Peter> >> On 2022-11-25, at 17:09:29 EST, C. Robert Lester wrote:>> >>
> I'm the new owner of a rudder off an '82 R22.>> Cannot wait to sail / race
> next sailing season.>> Took some pics of my '84 Rudder (curved, black/red)
> and '82 Rudder>> (white) side by side.>> The boats are only 2 years apart
> but the rudder heads as well as the >> rudders are not similar at all.>> I
> was going to buy the '82 stern rail as well but that is even a >> different
> mount and size from my '84.>> Comments, questions?>> >> Thanks all,>> Bob>>
> '84 ORION>> >> >> >> >> <a>> href="
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment.jpg&data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C1dde6b93ce3d4e739c2d08dacf4e2bfa%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050231897795227%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2
> >
> luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=5%2FvGDzW4lyDlY8bxd8C0SnVIagsqenG%2FNl74DWRsU24%3D&reserved=0"
> >> target="_blank">Rudder 1a.jpg</a>>> >> <a>> href="
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0001.jpg&data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C1dde6b93ce3d4e739c2d08dacf4e2bfa%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050231897795227%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=6%2FVPk0Yz0raPaBiMYAaNVBCs6BuuLQqJ4yaULWKtmH8%3D&reserved=0"
> >> target="_blank">Rudder 2a.jpg</a>>> >> <a>> href="
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0002.jpg&data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C1dde6b93ce3d4e739c2d08dacf4e2bfa%7C995b0
> >
> 93648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050231897795227%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=falg7p83u8J%2FJM8rsVG3WYzN2JmNaPn06t2a0pbB0bA%3D&reserved=0"
> >> target="_blank">Rudder 3a.jpg</a>>> > > -------------- next part
> -------------- A non-text attachment was > scrubbed...> Name: Rudder
> 4a.jpg> Type: image/jpeg> Size: 413162 bytes> Desc: Rudder 4a.jpg> URL: <
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221126%2Fa02587b5%2Fattachment.jpg&data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C1dde6b93ce3d4e739c2d08dacf4e2bfa%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050231897795227%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2FfotS3oaMoPJ49l2BJvvTqJIHg7PKELw63aG5D1ORAY%3D&reserved=0
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 11:37:24 -0500
> > From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu>
> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> > Message-ID: <c5674348-daad-0878-9b7e-814b9df175c8 at vt.edu>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
> >
> > It is so interesting that to me that this topic just came up. I've been
> > thinking about posting some late-season observations about my Rhodes
> > that are closely related to this thread.
> >
> > After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be excessive lee
> > helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the forward edge
> > of my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white rudder shown in
> > Bob's photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to rectify this, I
> > changed how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than pull it tight,
> > I eased off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the leading
> > edge of the rudder close to vertical.
> >
> > I only had the opportunity to try this twice before we had to take the
> > boat out for the season, but in both outings, I was able to much more
> > easily balance the helm and was able to tack very close to 90 degrees
> > (something that eluded me on this boat since we purchased her). Attached
> > is a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while
> > sailing as close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were
> > about 95 degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so
> > I consider this a great improvement.
> >
> > Also, prior to trying this adjustment with the rudder, we frequently had
> > difficulty bringing the bow through the wind; we had to be very precise
> > with our timing of releasing sheets. I did not have the opportunity to
> > test the change in high wind conditions, but she seemed to be much more
> > responsive to a turn to windward.
> >
> > I'll continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a
> > way to be sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
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> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 13:13:33 -0500
> > From: <jpd9668 at gmail.com>
> > To: "'The Rhodes 22 Email List'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> > Message-ID: <000201d9041e$513b6fc0$f3b24f40$@gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Chris,
> > Yours is much different than my experience. Until Stan instructed me how
> to use the downhaul on the rudder, I had severe lee helm. Once I pulled the
> downhaul tight my helm has been balanced ever since. If you're getting 95
> deg. or less on point, that's pretty good. Do you have roller furling jib?
> >
> > Joe Dempsey
> > S/V Respite
> > Deltaville, VA
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of
> Chris on LBI
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2022 11:37 AM
> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> >
> > It is so interesting that to me that this topic just came up. I've been
> thinking about posting some late-season observations about my Rhodes that
> are closely related to this thread.
> >
> > After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be excessive lee
> helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the forward edge of
> my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white rudder shown in Bob's
> photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to rectify this, I changed
> how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than pull it tight, I eased
> off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the leading edge of the
> rudder close to vertical.
> >
> > I only had the opportunity to try this twice before we had to take the
> boat out for the season, but in both outings, I was able to much more
> easily balance the helm and was able to tack very close to 90 degrees
> (something that eluded me on this boat since we purchased her). Attached is
> a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while sailing as
> close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were about 95
> degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so I consider
> this a great improvement.
> >
> > Also, prior to trying this adjustment with the rudder, we frequently had
> difficulty bringing the bow through the wind; we had to be very precise
> with our timing of releasing sheets. I did not have the opportunity to test
> the change in high wind conditions, but she seemed to be much more
> responsive to a turn to windward.
> >
> > I'll continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a
> way to be sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> > Name: IMG_4528.PNG
> > Type: image/png
> > Size: 460057 bytes
> > Desc: not available
> > URL: <
> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221129/2624e7f9/attachment.png
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 6
> > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 19:55:21 +0000
> > From: ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com>
> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> > Message-ID:
> > <
> CY8PR10MB6683D4528620D2943A4CEFFF80129 at CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com
> >
> >
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Chris,
> >
> > After reading your post, I went out and looked my boat?s rudder. On my
> R-22, the rudder blade pivots until it comes up against the underside of
> the rudder head. On my boat, the leading edge of the rudder blade makes a
> straight line with the leading edge of the rudder head when the rudder
> blade is all the way down against this positive mechanical stop. However,
> there are several manufacturing tolerances that can affect this geometry.
> The exact size and shape of the rudder head and rudder blade relative to
> the location of the rudder blade?s pivot are critical. If your rudder
> blade pivots too far forward, probably the easiest way to fix it will be to
> install a shim in between the bottom of the rudder head and the top of the
> rudder blade.
> >
> > I know from experience; that, pivoting the rudder blade up tends to
> increase weather helm. But, in my experience, the helm is not that
> sensitive to this adjustment, especially when the rudder blade is nearly
> fully down. How much did you have to move the rudder blade in order to get
> rid of your lee helm?
> >
> > By the way, what was your angle of heel when you were doing your tacking
> angle experiment? As you may know, the wetted surface area of the R-22
> hull becomes very asymmetric as the hull heels over. The asymmetry tends
> to produce weather helm, becoming more pronounced as the angle of heel
> increases. You may find your boat has lee helm when sailed flat,
> transitioning to neutral helm, and then weather helm as you heel over.
> Before you modify your rudder, be certain you are not introducing heavy
> weather helm when the boat?s rail is in the water.
> >
> > Roger Pihlaja
> > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >> On Nov 29, 2022, at 1:13 PM, jpd9668 at gmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >> ?Chris,
> >> Yours is much different than my experience. Until Stan instructed me
> how to use the downhaul on the rudder, I had severe lee helm. Once I pulled
> the downhaul tight my helm has been balanced ever since. If you're getting
> 95 deg. or less on point, that's pretty good. Do you have roller furling
> jib?
> >>
> >> Joe Dempsey
> >> S/V Respite
> >> Deltaville, VA
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of
> Chris on LBI
> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2022 11:37 AM
> >> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> >>
> >> It is so interesting that to me that this topic just came up. I've been
> thinking about posting some late-season observations about my Rhodes that
> are closely related to this thread.
> >>
> >> After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be excessive
> lee helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the forward
> edge of my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white rudder shown
> in Bob's photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to rectify this, I
> changed how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than pull it tight, I
> eased off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the leading edge of
> the rudder close to vertical.
> >>
> >> I only had the opportunity to try this twice before we had to take the
> boat out for the season, but in both outings, I was able to much more
> easily balance the helm and was able to tack very close to 90 degrees
> (something that eluded me on this boat since we purchased her). Attached is
> a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while sailing as
> close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were about 95
> degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so I consider
> this a great improvement.
> >>
> >> Also, prior to trying this adjustment with the rudder, we frequently
> had difficulty bringing the bow through the wind; we had to be very precise
> with our timing of releasing sheets. I did not have the opportunity to test
> the change in high wind conditions, but she seemed to be much more
> responsive to a turn to windward.
> >>
> >> I'll continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a
> way to be sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.
> >>
> >> Chris
> >>
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> >> Name: IMG_4528.PNG
> >> Type: image/png
> >> Size: 460057 bytes
> >> Desc: not available
> >> URL: <
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221129%2F2624e7f9%2Fattachment.png&data=05%7C01%7C%7C14e50c603e664400598208dad235763f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638053424313125675%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=sddmh3HKnm78KH1y%2BWXGh63%2Fqy8FvY4X1TDKohWJ1Ng%3D&reserved=0
> >
> >>
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 7
> > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 23:25:59 -0500
> > From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu>
> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> > Message-ID: <b482d3ee-6fbb-a590-0f60-6b2eccf7982f at vt.edu>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> >
> > Joe,
> > I do have a roller furling jib. On this particular day, when I was
> > experimenting, I had my 130 genoa unfurled to the upper shrouds.
> > Chris
> >
> > On 11/29/2022 1:13 PM, jpd9668 at gmail.com wrote:
> >> Chris,
> >> Yours is much different than my experience. Until Stan instructed me
> how to use the downhaul on the rudder, I had severe lee helm. Once I pulled
> the downhaul tight my helm has been balanced ever since. If you're getting
> 95 deg. or less on point, that's pretty good. Do you have roller furling
> jib?
> >>
> >> Joe Dempsey
> >> S/V Respite
> >> Deltaville, VA
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of
> Chris on LBI
> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2022 11:37 AM
> >> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> >>
> >> It is so interesting that to me that this topic just came up. I've been
> thinking about posting some late-season observations about my Rhodes that
> are closely related to this thread.
> >>
> >> After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be excessive
> lee helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the forward
> edge of my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white rudder shown
> in Bob's photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to rectify this, I
> changed how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than pull it tight, I
> eased off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the leading edge of
> the rudder close to vertical.
> >>
> >> I only had the opportunity to try this twice before we had to take the
> boat out for the season, but in both outings, I was able to much more
> easily balance the helm and was able to tack very close to 90 degrees
> (something that eluded me on this boat since we purchased her). Attached is
> a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while sailing as
> close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were about 95
> degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so I consider
> this a great improvement.
> >>
> >> Also, prior to trying this adjustment with the rudder, we frequently
> had difficulty bringing the bow through the wind; we had to be very precise
> with our timing of releasing sheets. I did not have the opportunity to test
> the change in high wind conditions, but she seemed to be much more
> responsive to a turn to windward.
> >>
> >> I'll continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a
> way to be sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.
> >>
> >> Chris
> >>
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> >> Name: IMG_4528.PNG
> >> Type: image/png
> >> Size: 460057 bytes
> >> Desc: not available
> >> URL: <
> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221129/2624e7f9/attachment.png
> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 8
> > Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 00:04:49 -0500
> > From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu>
> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> > Message-ID: <f0d18634-48d9-7382-498d-3774198dc6de at vt.edu>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> >
> > Roger,
> >
> > I don't have a sense for how much I moved the rudder blade on my two
> > trials. I was just hoping that some change would be noticeable. I'll pay
> > more attention next season, and, next time I have a chance, I'll try to
> > measure the difference between the "full down haul" position and the
> > vertical position. I'll also look at the mechanical stop to get a sense
> > for how a shim might be implemented. But for now, I think just using the
> > tension between the down-haul and the up-haul will be best for
> > experimenting so that I can convince myself that helm behavior really
> > does change.
> >
> > On the two days that I experimented, I was intentionally keeping the
> > heel angle minimal, attempting to keep it flat. The winds were around 10
> > kts. I had the 130 genoa unfurled to the upper shrouds. So the luff of
> > the headsail was not shaped well due to the sail furled on the headstay.
> >
> > On many days, we find ourselves sailing in 18 to 20 kts. We tend to be
> > timid about heeling too much and generally either fall off to a more
> > comfortable (flatter) reach or reduce sail. I've never really
> > experienced the transition to weather helm due to heeling - even when we
> > are heeled past our comfort angle. We probably head up before heeling
> > sufficiently to cause the hull shape to induce weather helm.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> > On 11/29/2022 2:55 PM, ROGER PIHLAJA wrote:
> >> Chris,
> >>
> >> After reading your post, I went out and looked my boat?s rudder. On my
> R-22, the rudder blade pivots until it comes up against the underside of
> the rudder head. On my boat, the leading edge of the rudder blade makes a
> straight line with the leading edge of the rudder head when the rudder
> blade is all the way down against this positive mechanical stop. However,
> there are several manufacturing tolerances that can affect this geometry.
> The exact size and shape of the rudder head and rudder blade relative to
> the location of the rudder blade?s pivot are critical. If your rudder
> blade pivots too far forward, probably the easiest way to fix it will be to
> install a shim in between the bottom of the rudder head and the top of the
> rudder blade.
> >>
> >> I know from experience; that, pivoting the rudder blade up tends to
> increase weather helm. But, in my experience, the helm is not that
> sensitive to this adjustment, especially when the rudder blade is nearly
> fully down. How much did you have to move the rudder blade in order to get
> rid of your lee helm?
> >>
> >> By the way, what was your angle of heel when you were doing your
> tacking angle experiment? As you may know, the wetted surface area of the
> R-22 hull becomes very asymmetric as the hull heels over. The asymmetry
> tends to produce weather helm, becoming more pronounced as the angle of
> heel increases. You may find your boat has lee helm when sailed flat,
> transitioning to neutral helm, and then weather helm as you heel over.
> Before you modify your rudder, be certain you are not introducing heavy
> weather helm when the boat?s rail is in the water.
> >>
> >> Roger Pihlaja
> >> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>> On Nov 29, 2022, at 1:13 PM, jpd9668 at gmail.com wrote:
> >>>
> >>> ?Chris,
> >>> Yours is much different than my experience. Until Stan instructed me
> how to use the downhaul on the rudder, I had severe lee helm. Once I pulled
> the downhaul tight my helm has been balanced ever since. If you're getting
> 95 deg. or less on point, that's pretty good. Do you have roller furling
> jib?
> >>>
> >>> Joe Dempsey
> >>> S/V Respite
> >>> Deltaville, VA
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of
> Chris on LBI
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2022 11:37 AM
> >>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> >>>
> >>> It is so interesting that to me that this topic just came up. I've
> been thinking about posting some late-season observations about my Rhodes
> that are closely related to this thread.
> >>>
> >>> After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be excessive
> lee helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the forward
> edge of my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white rudder shown
> in Bob's photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to rectify this, I
> changed how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than pull it tight, I
> eased off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the leading edge of
> the rudder close to vertical.
> >>>
> >>> I only had the opportunity to try this twice before we had to take the
> boat out for the season, but in both outings, I was able to much more
> easily balance the helm and was able to tack very close to 90 degrees
> (something that eluded me on this boat since we purchased her). Attached is
> a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while sailing as
> close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were about 95
> degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so I consider
> this a great improvement.
> >>>
> >>> Also, prior to trying this adjustment with the rudder, we frequently
> had difficulty bringing the bow through the wind; we had to be very precise
> with our timing of releasing sheets. I did not have the opportunity to test
> the change in high wind conditions, but she seemed to be much more
> responsive to a turn to windward.
> >>>
> >>> I'll continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a
> way to be sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.
> >>>
> >>> Chris
> >>>
> >>> -------------- next part --------------
> >>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> >>> Name: IMG_4528.PNG
> >>> Type: image/png
> >>> Size: 460057 bytes
> >>> Desc: not available
> >>> URL: <
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221129%2F2624e7f9%2Fattachment.png&data=05%7C01%7C%7C14e50c603e664400598208dad235763f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638053424313125675%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=sddmh3HKnm78KH1y%2BWXGh63%2Fqy8FvY4X1TDKohWJ1Ng%3D&reserved=0
> >
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 9
> > Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 08:13:30 -0500
> > From: jpd9668 <jpd9668 at gmail.com>
> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> > Message-ID: <63875705.020a0220.7c723.105e at mx.google.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Chris,I was very un-clear. The 95 degrees i was referring to was from
> 45+ degrees on either side of the wind. Was that your point of reference as
> well? I can get 45 degrees on Port tack? but have trouble getting that
> close on on starboard tack.Joe DempseySent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G,
> an AT&T 5G smartphone
> > -------- Original message --------From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu>
> Date: 11/29/22 11:26 PM (GMT-05:00) To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <
> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder |
> 84 Rhodes 22 Joe,I do have a roller furling jib. On this particular day,
> when I was experimenting, I had my 130 genoa unfurled to the upper
> shrouds.ChrisOn 11/29/2022 1:13 PM, jpd9668 at gmail.com wrote:> Chris,>
> Yours is much different than my experience. Until Stan instructed me how to
> use the downhaul on the rudder, I had severe lee helm. Once I pulled the
> downhaul tight my helm has been balanced ever since. If you're getting 95
> deg. or less on point, that's pretty good. Do you have roller furling
> jib?>> Joe Dempsey> S/V Respite> Deltaville, VA>> -----Original
> Message-----> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On
> Behalf Of Chris on LBI> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2022 11:37 AM> To: The
> Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> Subject: Re:
> > [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22>> It is so interesting that
> to me that this topic just came up. I've been thinking about posting some
> late-season observations about my Rhodes that are closely related to this
> thread.>> After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be
> excessive lee helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the
> forward edge of my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white
> rudder shown in Bob's photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to
> rectify this, I changed how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than
> pull it tight, I eased off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the
> leading edge of the rudder close to vertical.>> I only had the opportunity
> to try this twice before we had to take the boat out for the season, but in
> both outings, I was able to much more easily balance the helm and was able
> to tack very close to 90 degrees (something that eluded me on this boat
> since we purchased her). Attached
> > is a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while
> sailing as close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were
> about 95 degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so I
> consider this a great improvement.>> Also, prior to trying this adjustment
> with the rudder, we frequently had difficulty bringing the bow through the
> wind; we had to be very precise with our timing of releasing sheets. I did
> not have the opportunity to test the change in high wind conditions, but
> she seemed to be much more responsive to a turn to windward.>> I'll
> continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a way to be
> sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.>> Chris>>
> -------------- next part --------------> A non-text attachment was
> scrubbed...> Name: IMG_4528.PNG> Type: image/png> Size: 460057 bytes> Desc:
> not available> URL: <
> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221129/2624e7f9/attachment.png
> >>
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 10
> > Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 09:51:19 -0500
> > From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu>
> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> > Message-ID: <6d06f513-d256-ca5d-0877-3e0065372fc7 at vt.edu>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> >
> > Joe,
> >
> > I'm not sure which tack I do better on. I'll have to try to check next
> > season. I'm afraid that it might be difficult for me to know for sure
> > since I am always dealing with significant tidal currents that make
> > precise measurements like that nearly impossible.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 11
> > Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 17:11:30 -0500
> > From: Lee Kuhn <lvjkuhn at gmail.com>
> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Removing Gas from Fuel Line
> > Message-ID:
> > <
> CAPgvAEmLX7eK5u+y+CKO1chXfn-2HMT1WPSNuo40riptahb_fQ at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > What's the easiest way to remove gas from the fuel hose? The hose has a
> > ball spring valve at both ends. I was told not to push the valve open
> with
> > some type of tool because I could damage the valve.
> >
> > I disconnected the tank and put it in the lazarette and then reran the
> hose
> > into the lazarette and reconnected the hose to the tank which opened the
> > valve on that end. I then disconnected the hose from the outboard and
> > held it up as high as I could (gravity) and squeezed the primer. The
> > primer pumps gas in the opposite direction than I wanted but if you
> squeeze
> > it hard and slow the gas will eventually drain into the tank.
> >
> > Seems like there must be a better way. The gas was ethanol-free with a
> > stabilizer. Should I just leave it in the hose and hope I won't have any
> > problems starting the outboard in the Spring?
> >
> > Lee
> > 1999 Rhodes22 AT EASE
> > Claytor Lake, VA
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 12
> > Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 14:30:19 -0800
> > From: Peter Nyberg <peter at sunnybeeches.com>
> > To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Removing Gas from Fuel Line
> > Message-ID: <E1p0Vat-0063j5-BP at s152.servername.online>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> >
> > Lee,
> >
> > It never occurred to me to worry about this. I do empty my boat fuel
> tanks into a vehicle in the fall, and I do use a stabilizer for all my boat
> fuel. But, I don't have a convenient source for ethanol-free fuel, so I
> use the universal 90/10 mix.
> >
> > Long story short, I've never had a problem getting my outboard running
> in the spring.
> >
> > Peter Nyberg
> > Coventry, CT
> > s/v Silverheels (1988/2016)
> >
> >> On 2022-11-30, at 17:11:30 EST, Lee Kuhn wrote:
> >>
> >> What's the easiest way to remove gas from the fuel hose? The hose has
> a ball
> >> spring valve at both ends. I was told not to push the valve open with
> some type
> >> of tool because I could damage the valve.
> >>
> >> I disconnected the tank and put it in the lazarette and then reran the
> hose into
> >> the lazarette and reconnected the hose to the tank which opened the
> valve on
> >> that end. I then disconnected the hose from the outboard and held it
> up as high
> >> as I could (gravity) and squeezed the primer. The primer pumps gas in
> the
> >> opposite direction than I wanted but if you squeeze it hard and slow
> the gas
> >> will eventually drain into the tank.
> >>
> >> Seems like there must be a better way. The gas was ethanol-free with a
> >> stabilizer. Should I just leave it in the hose and hope I won't have
> any
> >> problems starting the outboard in the Spring?
> >>
> >> Lee
> >> 1999 Rhodes22 AT EASE
> >> Claytor Lake, VA
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 13
> > Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 22:34:37 +0000
> > From: ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com>
> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Removing Gas from Fuel Line
> > Message-ID:
> > <
> CY8PR10MB668383056F98D5A9E6BA561880159 at CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com
> >
> >
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Lee,
> >
> > As long as you push on the ball check valve with something soft, like a
> piece of plastic, you are unlikely to damage it. I always drain the gas
> line at the end of the season.
> >
> > Roger Pihlaja
> > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Nov 30, 2022, at 5:11 PM, Lee Kuhn <lvjkuhn at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> ?What's the easiest way to remove gas from the fuel hose? The hose has
> a
> >> ball spring valve at both ends. I was told not to push the valve open
> with
> >> some type of tool because I could damage the valve.
> >>
> >> I disconnected the tank and put it in the lazarette and then reran the
> hose
> >> into the lazarette and reconnected the hose to the tank which opened the
> >> valve on that end. I then disconnected the hose from the outboard and
> >> held it up as high as I could (gravity) and squeezed the primer. The
> >> primer pumps gas in the opposite direction than I wanted but if you
> squeeze
> >> it hard and slow the gas will eventually drain into the tank.
> >>
> >> Seems like there must be a better way. The gas was ethanol-free with a
> >> stabilizer. Should I just leave it in the hose and hope I won't have
> any
> >> problems starting the outboard in the Spring?
> >>
> >> Lee
> >> 1999 Rhodes22 AT EASE
> >> Claytor Lake, VA
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 14
> > Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 21:56:55 -0500 (EST)
> > From: cjlowe at sssnet.com
> > To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Removing Gas from Fuel Line
> > Message-ID:
> > <55562.24.140.30.102.1669863415.squirrel at quickpop.sssnet.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
> >
> >> Lee,
> >
> > I bought a replacement for my motor connection, and keep on board in
> > spare parts. End of season, I put the gas tank in the bed of the truck ,
> > put the spare connector on the end of the hose and stick it in a five
> > gallon gas can, pump the bulb a couple times and drink a beer.
> >
> >
> > Jerry Lowe SV Country Rhodes '86
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Lee,
> >>
> >> As long as you push on the ball check valve with something soft, like a
> >> piece of plastic, you are unlikely to damage it. I always drain the gas
> >> line at the end of the season.
> >>
> >> Roger Pihlaja
> >> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>> On Nov 30, 2022, at 5:11 PM, Lee Kuhn <lvjkuhn at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> ???What's the easiest way to remove gas from the fuel hose? The hose
> >>> has a
> >>> ball spring valve at both ends. I was told not to push the valve open
> >>> with
> >>> some type of tool because I could damage the valve.
> >>>
> >>> I disconnected the tank and put it in the lazarette and then reran the
> >>> hose
> >>> into the lazarette and reconnected the hose to the tank which opened
> >>> the
> >>> valve on that end. I then disconnected the hose from the outboard and
> >>> held it up as high as I could (gravity) and squeezed the primer. The
> >>> primer pumps gas in the opposite direction than I wanted but if you
> >>> squeeze
> >>> it hard and slow the gas will eventually drain into the tank.
> >>>
> >>> Seems like there must be a better way. The gas was ethanol-free with a
> >>> stabilizer. Should I just leave it in the hose and hope I won't have
> >>> any
> >>> problems starting the outboard in the Spring?
> >>>
> >>> Lee
> >>> 1999 Rhodes22 AT EASE
> >>> Claytor Lake, VA
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 15
> > Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2022 11:20:16 -0500
> > From: Lee Kuhn <lvjkuhn at gmail.com>
> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Removing Gas from Fuel Line
> > Message-ID:
> > <CAPgvAEmEw1T0F=j6vm7_B41=
> v2qw5quKvjERcOc08r2D+zUFrA at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > I like Roger's idea to release the ball-spring with something that won't
> > cause damage. If I place the tank on the cockpit seat I and pull the
> hose
> > down tight I should be able to get most of the gas out, and on me.
> >
> > I like Peter's idea to do nothing. I'm really good at that. I'll
> probably
> > use this method along with Jerry's idea to drink a beer.
> >
> > Thanks guys!
> >
> > Lee
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 10:02 PM <cjlowe at sssnet.com> wrote:
> >
> >>> Lee,
> >>
> >> I bought a replacement for my motor connection, and keep on board in
> >> spare parts. End of season, I put the gas tank in the bed of the truck ,
> >> put the spare connector on the end of the hose and stick it in a five
> >> gallon gas can, pump the bulb a couple times and drink a beer.
> >>
> >>
> >> Jerry Lowe SV Country Rhodes '86
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Lee,
> >>>
> >>> As long as you push on the ball check valve with something soft, like a
> >>> piece of plastic, you are unlikely to damage it. I always drain the
> gas
> >>> line at the end of the season.
> >>>
> >>> Roger Pihlaja
> >>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>>> On Nov 30, 2022, at 5:11 PM, Lee Kuhn <lvjkuhn at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> ?What's the easiest way to remove gas from the fuel hose? The hose
> >>>> has a
> >>>> ball spring valve at both ends. I was told not to push the valve open
> >>>> with
> >>>> some type of tool because I could damage the valve.
> >>>>
> >>>> I disconnected the tank and put it in the lazarette and then reran the
> >>>> hose
> >>>> into the lazarette and reconnected the hose to the tank which opened
> >>>> the
> >>>> valve on that end. I then disconnected the hose from the outboard and
> >>>> held it up as high as I could (gravity) and squeezed the primer. The
> >>>> primer pumps gas in the opposite direction than I wanted but if you
> >>>> squeeze
> >>>> it hard and slow the gas will eventually drain into the tank.
> >>>>
> >>>> Seems like there must be a better way. The gas was ethanol-free with
> a
> >>>> stabilizer. Should I just leave it in the hose and hope I won't have
> >>>> any
> >>>> problems starting the outboard in the Spring?
> >>>>
> >>>> Lee
> >>>> 1999 Rhodes22 AT EASE
> >>>> Claytor Lake, VA
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 16
> > Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2022 09:34:31 -0500
> > From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu>
> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> > Message-ID: <9d4c38a9-5e00-a0a0-7528-73c2e3aa8422 at vt.edu>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
> >
> > I was able to take a look at the rudder yesterday. In hindsight, I can't
> > believe that it took me 5 full seasons of sailing to recognize that this
> > was a potential problem. Attached are three photos. The first gives a
> > sense of how far the rudder swings under the hull when the down-haul is
> > used to pull the rudder against the "stop".? In the second photo I have
> > placed a white piece of plastic vertically to make more obvious how much
> > past vertical the rudder is when it is against the stop. The forward
> > edge of the white plastic is parallel with the forward edge of the
> > rudder head. The third photo shows the "stop" which is the forward side
> > of the rudder head (as Roger stated).
> >
> > As Roger predicted in his previous email, it appears that the mechanical
> > variations of this particular rudder and rudder head allow the rudder to
> > rotate too far forward. As he suggested, I will experiment with a shim
> > to correct this. If this does not work out easily, I will place a mark
> > on the up-haul so that I know how far to deploy it to keep the rudder
> > from over-rotating, and then tension the down-haul against it.
> >
> > Chris
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
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> > URL: <
> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment.jpg
> >
> > -------------- next part --------------
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> >
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> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 17
> > Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2022 10:14:48 -0500
> > From: Mary Lou Troy <mtroy at atlanticbb.net>
> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> > Message-ID: <01193a8d-1d85-3485-05a1-959ac2b949a7 at atlanticbb.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> >
> > I have not been following this discussion closely and I am relying on
> > memory here so take these statements with a grain of salt.
> >
> > When we purchased Fretless (recycled) in 1998 we had a number of
> > discussions with Stan about rigging, helm and the rudder. He was quite
> > clear that the proper position for the rudder underway was pulled
> > forward of vertical so it was somewhat under the hull. Fred and I both
> > remember the boat as being somewhat sluggish and less responsive if the
> > rudder was not pulled far enough forward. Helm was also affected by the
> > position of the rudder.
> >
> > I'll keep an eye out the results of your testing as I suppose it is
> > indeed possible to have it too far forward if the fittings have changed
> > but Stan set up our boat and we always pulled it as far forward as it
> > would go.
> >
> > When doing your tests, make sure all the other variables are the same -
> > for example the boat is very affected, usually positively, by weight in
> > the bow. As our water tank was nearly centerline, we usually had it
> > filled more than half way.
> >
> > All our best,
> > Mary Lou (and Fred)
> > ex Rhodes 22
> > now Rosborough RF-246? Tara
> > Rock Hall, MD
> >
> > On 12/4/2022 9:34 AM, Chris on LBI wrote:
> >> I was able to take a look at the rudder yesterday. In hindsight, I
> >> can't believe that it took me 5 full seasons of sailing to recognize
> >> that this was a potential problem. Attached are three photos. The
> >> first gives a sense of how far the rudder swings under the hull when
> >> the down-haul is used to pull the rudder against the "stop". In the
> >> second photo I have placed a white piece of plastic vertically to make
> >> more obvious how much past vertical the rudder is when it is against
> >> the stop. The forward edge of the white plastic is parallel with the
> >> forward edge of the rudder head. The third photo shows the "stop"
> >> which is the forward side of the rudder head (as Roger stated).
> >>
> >> As Roger predicted in his previous email, it appears that the
> >> mechanical variations of this particular rudder and rudder head allow
> >> the rudder to rotate too far forward. As he suggested, I will
> >> experiment with a shim to correct this. If this does not work out
> >> easily, I will place a mark on the up-haul so that I know how far to
> >> deploy it to keep the rudder from over-rotating, and then tension the
> >> down-haul against it.
> >>
> >> Chris
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> >> Name: IMG_4808.jpg
> >> Type: image/jpeg
> >> Size: 77096 bytes
> >> Desc: not available
> >> URL:
> >> <
> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment.jpg
> >
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> >> Name: IMG_4810.jpg
> >> Type: image/jpeg
> >> Size: 65366 bytes
> >> Desc: not available
> >> URL:
> >> <
> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment-0001.jpg
> >
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
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> >> Size: 81121 bytes
> >> Desc: not available
> >> URL:
> >> <
> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment-0002.jpg
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 18
> > Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2022 10:38:22 -0500
> > From: Todd Tavares <tavares0947 at gmail.com>
> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> > Message-ID:
> > <CAB-twMN_dJb0-eHOQC9j3P_2TPx5a=EjrHrOfCMLguGGZLiq=
> A at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Chris,
> > Rather than trying to mess around with making and securing a shim, would
> it
> > be easier to re-fabricate that entire forward vertical blocking between
> the
> > rudderhead faces?
> >
> > Todd T
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 4, 2022, 9:34 AM Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> I was able to take a look at the rudder yesterday. In hindsight, I can't
> >> believe that it took me 5 full seasons of sailing to recognize that this
> >> was a potential problem. Attached are three photos. The first gives a
> >> sense of how far the rudder swings under the hull when the down-haul is
> >> used to pull the rudder against the "stop". In the second photo I have
> >> placed a white piece of plastic vertically to make more obvious how much
> >> past vertical the rudder is when it is against the stop. The forward
> >> edge of the white plastic is parallel with the forward edge of the
> >> rudder head. The third photo shows the "stop" which is the forward side
> >> of the rudder head (as Roger stated).
> >>
> >> As Roger predicted in his previous email, it appears that the mechanical
> >> variations of this particular rudder and rudder head allow the rudder to
> >> rotate too far forward. As he suggested, I will experiment with a shim
> >> to correct this. If this does not work out easily, I will place a mark
> >> on the up-haul so that I know how far to deploy it to keep the rudder
> >> from over-rotating, and then tension the down-haul against it.
> >>
> >> Chris
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> >> Name: IMG_4808.jpg
> >> Type: image/jpeg
> >> Size: 77096 bytes
> >> Desc: not available
> >> URL: <
> >>
> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment.jpg
> >>>
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> >> Name: IMG_4810.jpg
> >> Type: image/jpeg
> >> Size: 65366 bytes
> >> Desc: not available
> >> URL: <
> >>
> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment-0001.jpg
> >>>
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> >> Name: IMG_4811.jpg
> >> Type: image/jpeg
> >> Size: 81121 bytes
> >> Desc: not available
> >> URL: <
> >>
> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment-0002.jpg
> >>>
> >>
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Subject: Digest Footer
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rhodes22-list mailing list
> > Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> > http://rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > End of Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 4477, Issue 1
> > **********************************************
>
>
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