[Rhodes22-list] Rhodes 22 for sail on facebook

[Michael D. Weisner]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1965860183639772/permalink/4020732424819194/?mibextid=Nif5ozRegards,Mikes/v Wind Lass ('91)Nissequogue River, NY
-------- Original message --------From: Stephen Staum <snstaum at gmail.com> Date: 12/4/22  12:07 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 4477, Issue 1 Can we get more info?  Is there an ad posted somewhere?  Pictures?Where is the boat located?I may be in the market.*Thanks and Stay Well,**Stephen Staum**s/v Pinafore (I hope)**Needham, MA*On Sun, Dec 4, 2022 at 10:41 AM Scott McFall <scott at hypnosisconnection.com>wrote:> I am selling my 2008 Rhodes 22 if anyone is looking.  I am wanting 17500.> Not sure if we do that in this feed or not>> > On Dec 4, 2022, at 10:38 AM, rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org wrote:> >> > Send Rhodes22-list mailing list submissions to> >       rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> >> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit> >       http://rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to> >       rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org> >> > You can reach the person managing the list at> >       rhodes22-list-owner at rhodes22.org> >> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific> > than "Re: Contents of Rhodes22-list digest..."> >> >> > Today's Topics:> >> >   1. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (jpd9668)> >   2. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (jpd9668)> >   3. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (jpd9668)> >   4. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Chris on LBI)> >   5. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (jpd9668 at gmail.com)> >   6. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (ROGER PIHLAJA)> >   7. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Chris on LBI)> >   8. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Chris on LBI)> >   9. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (jpd9668)> >  10. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Chris on LBI)> >  11. Removing Gas from Fuel Line (Lee Kuhn)> >  12. Re: Removing Gas from Fuel Line (Peter Nyberg)> >  13. Re: Removing Gas from Fuel Line (ROGER PIHLAJA)> >  14. Re: Removing Gas from Fuel Line (cjlowe at sssnet.com)> >  15. Re: Removing Gas from Fuel Line (Lee Kuhn)> >  16. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Chris on LBI)> >  17. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Mary Lou Troy)> >  18. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Todd Tavares)> >> >> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------> >> > Message: 1> > Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2022 09:03:58 -0500> > From: jpd9668 <jpd9668 at gmail.com>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Message-ID: <63821cdb.020a0220.9bd25.399c at mx.google.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"> >> > I don't know what definition of curve is, but there is none unless it's> in the plane of the surface which is probably the result of the layup of> the fibreglass.Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone> > -------- Original message --------From: ROGER PIHLAJA <> roger_pihlaja at msn.com> Date: 11/25/22  5:48 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: The> Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re:> [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 Bob,I agree with Peter.? If> there are any differences between the two rudders, they are not readily> apparent in the photos.? Is there any measurable difference in parameters> like maximum thickness, chord length from the leading edge to point of> maximum thickness, etc?? Is there any asymetery in the curvature of the> hydrofoil on each side? Both rudders appear to be straight.? What do you> mean by ?curved??Roger PihlajaS/V Dynamic EquilibriumSent from my iPhone>> On Nov 25, 2022, at 5:26 PM, Peter Nyberg <peter at sunnybeeches.com>> wrote:> > ?Bob,> > You seem happy with your new rudder, and so I'm happy> for you as well, but those two rudders look pretty much the same to me.> >> --Peter> >> On 2022-11-25, at 17:09:29 EST, C. Robert Lester wrote:>> >>> I'm the> >  new owner of a rudder off an '82 R22.>> Cannot wait to sail / race next> sailing season.>> Took some pics of my '84 Rudder (curved, black/red) and> '82 Rudder (white) side >> by side. >> The boats are only 2 years apart but> the rudder heads as well as the rudders are >> not similar at all. >> I was> going to buy the '82 stern rail as well but that is even a different mount> >> and size from my '84. >> Comments, questions?>> >> Thanks all,>> Bob>>> '84 ORION>> >> >> >> >> <a >> href="> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment.jpg&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cd09861f000784a7cb42808dacf340f30%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638050119754738534%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=2%2FlYlSVnEpTnaNqcJ6KcohYH5Mp6bJicXQXi5es2bCg%3D&reserved=0"> >> target="_blank">Rudder 1a.jpg</a> >> >> <a> >>> href="> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0001.jpg&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cd09861f000784a7cb42808dacf340f30%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638050119754738534%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=jb%2FqyXGnRhbl%2B96mT3YAC7z6k%2FGWx16Nu09%2Bv%2BBz3pU%3D&reserved=0"> >> target="_blank">Rudder 2a.jpg</a> >> >> <a >> href="> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0002.jpg&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cd09861f000784a7cb42808dacf340f30%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638050119754738534%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=1gLAUSJD%2FLJHorQ5gSy79T%2B9EPYD3M5%2Bf6hkidjNvnY%3D&a> > mp;reserved=0" >> target="_blank">Rudder 3a.jpg</a> >> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 2> > Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2022 09:10:09 -0500> > From: jpd9668 <jpd9668 at gmail.com>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Message-ID: <63821e4f.020a0220.9bd25.39b5 at mx.google.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"> >> > Well, that's not good. Its bent! Don't know what would cause that, but I> would think that it will affect performance through increased drag. Roger> would know better than I.?Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G> smartphone> > -------- Original message --------From: "C. Robert Lester" <> C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu> Date: 11/25/22  7:17 PM  (GMT-05:00) To:> The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re:> [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 Thanks Peter.Forgive me for> not being able to capture the differences in shape with the first pics.Here> is the original pic that I posted. (Yes, that is snow on the ground when I> pulled her at end of season.).Note:Tiller handle was placed,> centerline.Rudder head at top you can see bolts & nuts both sides.Rudder is> twisted to port, but curved to Starboard.I hope this is helpful.Not the> pics yesterday show the "patches" of repair that were exposed by pressure> washing off the red and black paint this summer.Bob'84 Orion-----Original> Message-----From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On> Behalf Of Peter NybergSent: Friday, November 25, 2022 5:26 PMTo:> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.orgSubject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84> >  Rhodes 22Bob,You seem happy with your new rudder, and so I'm happy for> you as well, but those two rudders look pretty much the same to me.--Peter>> On 2022-11-25, at 17:09:29 EST, C. Robert Lester wrote:>> I'm the new owner> of a rudder off an '82 R22.> Cannot wait to sail / race next sailing> season.> Took some pics of my '84 Rudder (curved, black/red) and '82 Rudder> > (white) side by side.> The boats are only 2 years apart but the rudder> heads as well as the > rudders are not similar at all.> I was going to buy> the '82 stern rail as well but that is even a > different mount and size> from my '84.> Comments, questions?> > Thanks all,> Bob> '84 ORION> > > > >> <a> href="> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment.jpg&data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C91e9c5d0f0f848ba822108dacf340ef6%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050119769164077%7CUnk> >> nown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=jAH1SgjXpqNVYA9DFo%2BOaW51Yru7cRlFl1y%2Fk5WFwDs%3D&reserved=0"> > target="_blank">Rudder 1a.jpg</a>> > <a> href="> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0001.jpg&data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C91e9c5d0f0f848ba822108dacf340ef6%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050119769164077%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=bhZbS3G14v5gWsMzgfXiKpbleK6dYLGM5Kfquowb1Kg%3D&reserved=0"> > target="_blank">Rudder 2a.jpg</a>> > <a> href="> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0002.jpg&data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C9> >> 1e9c5d0f0f848ba822108dacf340ef6%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050119769164077%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=vjTwF84WbZig1mFjUzfjKx6C0y9II68CqjER8ceXTfU%3D&reserved=0"> > target="_blank">Rudder 3a.jpg</a>> -------------- next part> --------------A non-text attachment was scrubbed...Name: Rudder 4a.jpgType:> image/jpegSize: 413162 bytesDesc: Rudder 4a.jpgURL: <> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221126/a02587b5/attachment.jpg> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 3> > Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2022 09:13:30 -0500> > From: jpd9668 <jpd9668 at gmail.com>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Message-ID: <63821f0f.020a0220.9bd25.39be at mx.google.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"> >> > ?I don't think there's any difference between 82 and 84 or any other> year rudders. Don't stigmatize '84 rudders!Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S22> 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone> > -------- Original message --------From: "C. Robert Lester" <> C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu> Date: 11/25/22  9:31 PM  (GMT-05:00) To:> The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re:> [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 Thanks Roger.Sailing the last> 10 yrs of ORION has been favored port tack, with a Catalina 22 rudder> tiller.It will be nice next season to see how this '82 rudder tacks?Bob'84> ORION-----Original Message-----From: Rhodes22-list <> rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of ROGER PIHLAJASent:> Friday, November 25, 2022 8:33 PMTo: The Rhodes 22 Email List <> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder |> 84 Rhodes 22Hi Bob,OK, now I see what you mean.? Is that much misalignment> noticeable under sail??? Is the tiller position different to go straight> ahead on port tack vs starboard tack?Anyway, I don?t think there is any way> to fix that rudder blade.? So, you did the right thing to replace it.Roger> PihlajaS/V Dynami> > c EquilibriumSent from my iPhone> On Nov 25, 2022, at 7:17 PM, C. Robert> Lester <C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu> wrote:> > ?Thanks Peter.> Forgive> me for not being able to capture the differences in shape with the first> pics.> Here is the original pic that I posted. (Yes, that is snow on the> ground when I pulled her at end of season.).> Note:> Tiller handle was> placed, centerline.> Rudder head at top you can see bolts & nuts both> sides.> Rudder is twisted to port, but curved to Starboard.> I hope this is> helpful.> Not the pics yesterday show the "patches" of repair that were> exposed by pressure washing off the red and black paint this summer.> Bob>> '84 Orion> > > -----Original Message-----> From: Rhodes22-list <> rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of > Peter Nyberg> Sent:> Friday, November 25, 2022 5:26 PM> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Bob,> > You> seem happy with your new rudder, and so I'm happy for you> > as well, but those two rudders look pretty much the same to me.> >> --Peter> >> On 2022-11-25, at 17:09:29 EST, C. Robert Lester wrote:>> >>> I'm the new owner of a rudder off an '82 R22.>> Cannot wait to sail / race> next sailing season.>> Took some pics of my '84 Rudder (curved, black/red)> and '82 Rudder>> (white) side by side.>> The boats are only 2 years apart> but the rudder heads as well as the >> rudders are not similar at all.>> I> was going to buy the '82 stern rail as well but that is even a >> different> mount and size from my '84.>> Comments, questions?>> >> Thanks all,>> Bob>>> '84 ORION>> >> >> >> >> <a>> href="> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment.jpg&data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C1dde6b93ce3d4e739c2d08dacf4e2bfa%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050231897795227%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2> >> luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=5%2FvGDzW4lyDlY8bxd8C0SnVIagsqenG%2FNl74DWRsU24%3D&reserved=0"> >> target="_blank">Rudder 1a.jpg</a>>> >> <a>> href="> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0001.jpg&data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C1dde6b93ce3d4e739c2d08dacf4e2bfa%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050231897795227%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=6%2FVPk0Yz0raPaBiMYAaNVBCs6BuuLQqJ4yaULWKtmH8%3D&reserved=0"> >> target="_blank">Rudder 2a.jpg</a>>> >> <a>> href="> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0002.jpg&data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C1dde6b93ce3d4e739c2d08dacf4e2bfa%7C995b0> >> 93648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050231897795227%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=falg7p83u8J%2FJM8rsVG3WYzN2JmNaPn06t2a0pbB0bA%3D&reserved=0"> >> target="_blank">Rudder 3a.jpg</a>>> > > -------------- next part> -------------- A non-text attachment was > scrubbed...> Name: Rudder> 4a.jpg> Type: image/jpeg> Size: 413162 bytes> Desc: Rudder 4a.jpg> URL: <> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221126%2Fa02587b5%2Fattachment.jpg&data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C1dde6b93ce3d4e739c2d08dacf4e2bfa%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050231897795227%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2FfotS3oaMoPJ49l2BJvvTqJIHg7PKELw63aG5D1ORAY%3D&reserved=0> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 4> > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 11:37:24 -0500> > From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Message-ID: <c5674348-daad-0878-9b7e-814b9df175c8 at vt.edu>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"> >> > It is so interesting that to me that this topic just came up. I've been> > thinking about posting some late-season observations about my Rhodes> > that are closely related to this thread.> >> > After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be excessive lee> > helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the forward edge> > of my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white rudder shown in> > Bob's photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to rectify this, I> > changed how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than pull it tight,> > I eased off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the leading> > edge of the rudder close to vertical.> >> > I only had the opportunity to try this twice before we had to take the> > boat out for the season, but in both outings, I was able to much more> > easily balance the helm and was able to tack very close to 90 degrees> > (something that eluded me on this boat since we purchased her). Attached> > is a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while> > sailing as close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were> > about 95 degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so> > I consider this a great improvement.> >> > Also, prior to trying this adjustment with the rudder, we frequently had> > difficulty bringing the bow through the wind; we had to be very precise> > with our timing of releasing sheets. I did not have the opportunity to> > test the change in high wind conditions, but she seemed to be much more> > responsive to a turn to windward.> >> > I'll continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a> > way to be sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.> >> > Chris> >> > -------------- next part --------------> > A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> > Name: IMG_4528.PNG> > Type: image/png> > Size: 460057 bytes> > Desc: not available> > URL: <> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221129/2624e7f9/attachment.png> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 5> > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 13:13:33 -0500> > From: <jpd9668 at gmail.com>> > To: "'The Rhodes 22 Email List'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Message-ID: <000201d9041e$513b6fc0$f3b24f40$@gmail.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain;     charset="utf-8"> >> > Chris,> > Yours is much different than my experience. Until Stan instructed me how> to use the downhaul on the rudder, I had severe lee helm. Once I pulled the> downhaul tight my helm has been balanced ever since. If you're getting 95> deg. or less on point, that's pretty good. Do you have roller furling jib?> >> > Joe Dempsey> > S/V Respite> > Deltaville, VA> >> > -----Original Message-----> > From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of> Chris on LBI> > Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2022 11:37 AM> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> >> > It is so interesting that to me that this topic just came up. I've been> thinking about posting some late-season observations about my Rhodes that> are closely related to this thread.> >> > After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be excessive lee> helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the forward edge of> my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white rudder shown in Bob's> photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to rectify this, I changed> how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than pull it tight, I eased> off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the leading edge of the> rudder close to vertical.> >> > I only had the opportunity to try this twice before we had to take the> boat out for the season, but in both outings, I was able to much more> easily balance the helm and was able to tack very close to 90 degrees> (something that eluded me on this boat since we purchased her). Attached is> a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while sailing as> close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were about 95> degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so I consider> this a great improvement.> >> > Also, prior to trying this adjustment with the rudder, we frequently had> difficulty bringing the bow through the wind; we had to be very precise> with our timing of releasing sheets. I did not have the opportunity to test> the change in high wind conditions, but she seemed to be much more> responsive to a turn to windward.> >> > I'll continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a> way to be sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.> >> > Chris> >> > -------------- next part --------------> > A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> > Name: IMG_4528.PNG> > Type: image/png> > Size: 460057 bytes> > Desc: not available> > URL: <> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221129/2624e7f9/attachment.png> >> >> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 6> > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 19:55:21 +0000> > From: ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Message-ID:> >       <> CY8PR10MB6683D4528620D2943A4CEFFF80129 at CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com> >> >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"> >> > Chris,> >> > After reading your post, I went out and looked my boat?s rudder.  On my> R-22, the rudder blade pivots until it comes up against the underside of> the rudder head.  On my boat, the leading edge of the rudder blade makes a> straight line with the leading edge of the rudder head when the rudder> blade is all the way down against this positive mechanical stop.  However,> there are several manufacturing tolerances that can affect this geometry.> The exact size and shape of the rudder head and rudder blade relative to> the location of the rudder blade?s pivot are critical.  If your rudder> blade pivots too far forward, probably the easiest way to fix it will be to> install a shim in between the bottom of the rudder head and the top of the> rudder blade.> >> > I know from experience; that, pivoting the rudder blade up tends to> increase weather helm.  But, in my experience, the helm is not that> sensitive to this adjustment, especially when the rudder blade is nearly> fully down.  How much did you have to move the rudder blade in order to get> rid of your lee helm?> >> > By the way, what was your angle of heel when you were doing your tacking> angle experiment?  As you may know, the wetted surface area of the R-22> hull becomes very asymmetric as the hull heels over.  The asymmetry tends> to produce weather helm, becoming more pronounced as the angle of heel> increases.  You may find your boat has lee helm when sailed flat,> transitioning to neutral helm, and then weather helm as you heel over.> Before you modify your rudder, be certain you are not introducing heavy> weather helm when the boat?s rail is in the water.> >> > Roger Pihlaja> > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium> >> > Sent from my iPhone> >> On Nov 29, 2022, at 1:13 PM, jpd9668 at gmail.com wrote:> >>> >> ?Chris,> >> Yours is much different than my experience. Until Stan instructed me> how to use the downhaul on the rudder, I had severe lee helm. Once I pulled> the downhaul tight my helm has been balanced ever since. If you're getting> 95 deg. or less on point, that's pretty good. Do you have roller furling> jib?> >>> >> Joe Dempsey> >> S/V Respite> >> Deltaville, VA> >>> >> -----Original Message-----> >> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of> Chris on LBI> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2022 11:37 AM> >> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> >>> >> It is so interesting that to me that this topic just came up. I've been> thinking about posting some late-season observations about my Rhodes that> are closely related to this thread.> >>> >> After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be excessive> lee helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the forward> edge of my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white rudder shown> in Bob's photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to rectify this, I> changed how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than pull it tight, I> eased off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the leading edge of> the rudder close to vertical.> >>> >> I only had the opportunity to try this twice before we had to take the> boat out for the season, but in both outings, I was able to much more> easily balance the helm and was able to tack very close to 90 degrees> (something that eluded me on this boat since we purchased her). Attached is> a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while sailing as> close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were about 95> degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so I consider> this a great improvement.> >>> >> Also, prior to trying this adjustment with the rudder, we frequently> had difficulty bringing the bow through the wind; we had to be very precise> with our timing of releasing sheets. I did not have the opportunity to test> the change in high wind conditions, but she seemed to be much more> responsive to a turn to windward.> >>> >> I'll continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a> way to be sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.> >>> >> Chris> >>> >> -------------- next part --------------> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> >> Name: IMG_4528.PNG> >> Type: image/png> >> Size: 460057 bytes> >> Desc: not available> >> URL: <> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221129%2F2624e7f9%2Fattachment.png&data=05%7C01%7C%7C14e50c603e664400598208dad235763f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638053424313125675%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=sddmh3HKnm78KH1y%2BWXGh63%2Fqy8FvY4X1TDKohWJ1Ng%3D&reserved=0> >> >>> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 7> > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 23:25:59 -0500> > From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Message-ID: <b482d3ee-6fbb-a590-0f60-6b2eccf7982f at vt.edu>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed> >> > Joe,> > I do have a roller furling jib. On this particular day, when I was> > experimenting, I had my 130 genoa unfurled to the upper shrouds.> > Chris> >> > On 11/29/2022 1:13 PM, jpd9668 at gmail.com wrote:> >> Chris,> >> Yours is much different than my experience. Until Stan instructed me> how to use the downhaul on the rudder, I had severe lee helm. Once I pulled> the downhaul tight my helm has been balanced ever since. If you're getting> 95 deg. or less on point, that's pretty good. Do you have roller furling> jib?> >>> >> Joe Dempsey> >> S/V Respite> >> Deltaville, VA> >>> >> -----Original Message-----> >> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of> Chris on LBI> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2022 11:37 AM> >> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> >>> >> It is so interesting that to me that this topic just came up. I've been> thinking about posting some late-season observations about my Rhodes that> are closely related to this thread.> >>> >> After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be excessive> lee helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the forward> edge of my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white rudder shown> in Bob's photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to rectify this, I> changed how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than pull it tight, I> eased off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the leading edge of> the rudder close to vertical.> >>> >> I only had the opportunity to try this twice before we had to take the> boat out for the season, but in both outings, I was able to much more> easily balance the helm and was able to tack very close to 90 degrees> (something that eluded me on this boat since we purchased her). Attached is> a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while sailing as> close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were about 95> degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so I consider> this a great improvement.> >>> >> Also, prior to trying this adjustment with the rudder, we frequently> had difficulty bringing the bow through the wind; we had to be very precise> with our timing of releasing sheets. I did not have the opportunity to test> the change in high wind conditions, but she seemed to be much more> responsive to a turn to windward.> >>> >> I'll continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a> way to be sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.> >>> >> Chris> >>> >> -------------- next part --------------> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> >> Name: IMG_4528.PNG> >> Type: image/png> >> Size: 460057 bytes> >> Desc: not available> >> URL: <> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221129/2624e7f9/attachment.png> >> >>> >> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 8> > Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 00:04:49 -0500> > From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Message-ID: <f0d18634-48d9-7382-498d-3774198dc6de at vt.edu>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed> >> > Roger,> >> > I don't have a sense for how much I moved the rudder blade on my two> > trials. I was just hoping that some change would be noticeable. I'll pay> > more attention next season, and, next time I have a chance, I'll try to> > measure the difference between the "full down haul" position and the> > vertical position. I'll also look at the mechanical stop to get a sense> > for how a shim might be implemented. But for now, I think just using the> > tension between the down-haul and the up-haul will be best for> > experimenting so that I can convince myself that helm behavior really> > does change.> >> > On the two days that I experimented, I was intentionally keeping the> > heel angle minimal, attempting to keep it flat. The winds were around 10> > kts. I had the 130 genoa unfurled to the upper shrouds. So the luff of> > the headsail was not shaped well due to the sail furled on the headstay.> >> > On many days, we find ourselves sailing in 18 to 20 kts. We tend to be> > timid about heeling too much and generally either fall off to a more> > comfortable (flatter) reach or reduce sail. I've never really> > experienced the transition to weather helm due to heeling - even when we> > are heeled past our comfort angle. We probably head up before heeling> > sufficiently to cause the hull shape to induce weather helm.> >> > Chris> >> >> >> > On 11/29/2022 2:55 PM, ROGER PIHLAJA wrote:> >> Chris,> >>> >> After reading your post, I went out and looked my boat?s rudder.  On my> R-22, the rudder blade pivots until it comes up against the underside of> the rudder head.  On my boat, the leading edge of the rudder blade makes a> straight line with the leading edge of the rudder head when the rudder> blade is all the way down against this positive mechanical stop.  However,> there are several manufacturing tolerances that can affect this geometry.> The exact size and shape of the rudder head and rudder blade relative to> the location of the rudder blade?s pivot are critical.  If your rudder> blade pivots too far forward, probably the easiest way to fix it will be to> install a shim in between the bottom of the rudder head and the top of the> rudder blade.> >>> >> I know from experience; that, pivoting the rudder blade up tends to> increase weather helm.  But, in my experience, the helm is not that> sensitive to this adjustment, especially when the rudder blade is nearly> fully down.  How much did you have to move the rudder blade in order to get> rid of your lee helm?> >>> >> By the way, what was your angle of heel when you were doing your> tacking angle experiment?  As you may know, the wetted surface area of the> R-22 hull becomes very asymmetric as the hull heels over.  The asymmetry> tends to produce weather helm, becoming more pronounced as the angle of> heel increases.  You may find your boat has lee helm when sailed flat,> transitioning to neutral helm, and then weather helm as you heel over.> Before you modify your rudder, be certain you are not introducing heavy> weather helm when the boat?s rail is in the water.> >>> >> Roger Pihlaja> >> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium> >>> >> Sent from my iPhone> >>> On Nov 29, 2022, at 1:13 PM, jpd9668 at gmail.com wrote:> >>>> >>> ?Chris,> >>> Yours is much different than my experience. Until Stan instructed me> how to use the downhaul on the rudder, I had severe lee helm. Once I pulled> the downhaul tight my helm has been balanced ever since. If you're getting> 95 deg. or less on point, that's pretty good. Do you have roller furling> jib?> >>>> >>> Joe Dempsey> >>> S/V Respite> >>> Deltaville, VA> >>>> >>> -----Original Message-----> >>> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of> Chris on LBI> >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2022 11:37 AM> >>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> >>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> >>>> >>> It is so interesting that to me that this topic just came up. I've> been thinking about posting some late-season observations about my Rhodes> that are closely related to this thread.> >>>> >>> After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be excessive> lee helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the forward> edge of my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white rudder shown> in Bob's photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to rectify this, I> changed how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than pull it tight, I> eased off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the leading edge of> the rudder close to vertical.> >>>> >>> I only had the opportunity to try this twice before we had to take the> boat out for the season, but in both outings, I was able to much more> easily balance the helm and was able to tack very close to 90 degrees> (something that eluded me on this boat since we purchased her). Attached is> a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while sailing as> close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were about 95> degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so I consider> this a great improvement.> >>>> >>> Also, prior to trying this adjustment with the rudder, we frequently> had difficulty bringing the bow through the wind; we had to be very precise> with our timing of releasing sheets. I did not have the opportunity to test> the change in high wind conditions, but she seemed to be much more> responsive to a turn to windward.> >>>> >>> I'll continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a> way to be sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.> >>>> >>> Chris> >>>> >>> -------------- next part --------------> >>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> >>> Name: IMG_4528.PNG> >>> Type: image/png> >>> Size: 460057 bytes> >>> Desc: not available> >>> URL: <> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221129%2F2624e7f9%2Fattachment.png&data=05%7C01%7C%7C14e50c603e664400598208dad235763f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638053424313125675%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=sddmh3HKnm78KH1y%2BWXGh63%2Fqy8FvY4X1TDKohWJ1Ng%3D&reserved=0> >> >>>> >> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 9> > Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 08:13:30 -0500> > From: jpd9668 <jpd9668 at gmail.com>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Message-ID: <63875705.020a0220.7c723.105e at mx.google.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"> >> > Chris,I was very un-clear. The 95 degrees i was referring to was from> 45+ degrees on either side of the wind. Was that your point of reference as> well? I can get 45 degrees on Port tack? but have trouble getting that> close on on starboard tack.Joe DempseySent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G,> an AT&T 5G smartphone> > -------- Original message --------From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu>> Date: 11/29/22  11:26 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder |> 84 Rhodes 22 Joe,I do have a roller furling jib. On this particular day,> when I was experimenting, I had my 130 genoa unfurled to the upper> shrouds.ChrisOn 11/29/2022 1:13 PM, jpd9668 at gmail.com wrote:> Chris,>> Yours is much different than my experience. Until Stan instructed me how to> use the downhaul on the rudder, I had severe lee helm. Once I pulled the> downhaul tight my helm has been balanced ever since. If you're getting 95> deg. or less on point, that's pretty good. Do you have roller furling> jib?>> Joe Dempsey> S/V Respite> Deltaville, VA>> -----Original> Message-----> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On> Behalf Of Chris on LBI> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2022 11:37 AM> To: The> Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> Subject: Re:> > [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22>> It is so interesting that> to me that this topic just came up. I've been thinking about posting some> late-season observations about my Rhodes that are closely related to this> thread.>> After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be> excessive lee helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the> forward edge of my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white> rudder shown in Bob's photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to> rectify this, I changed how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than> pull it tight, I eased off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the> leading edge of the rudder close to vertical.>> I only had the opportunity> to try this twice before we had to take the boat out for the season, but in> both outings, I was able to much more easily balance the helm and was able> to tack very close to 90 degrees (something that eluded me on this boat> since we purchased her). Attached> > is a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while> sailing as close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were> about 95 degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so I> consider this a great improvement.>> Also, prior to trying this adjustment> with the rudder, we frequently had difficulty bringing the bow through the> wind; we had to be very precise with our timing of releasing sheets. I did> not have the opportunity to test the change in high wind conditions, but> she seemed to be much more responsive to a turn to windward.>> I'll> continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a way to be> sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.>> Chris>>> -------------- next part --------------> A non-text attachment was> scrubbed...> Name: IMG_4528.PNG> Type: image/png> Size: 460057 bytes> Desc:> not available> URL: <> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221129/2624e7f9/attachment.png> >>> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 10> > Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 09:51:19 -0500> > From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Message-ID: <6d06f513-d256-ca5d-0877-3e0065372fc7 at vt.edu>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed> >> > Joe,> >> > I'm not sure which tack I do better on. I'll have to try to check next> > season. I'm afraid that it might be difficult for me to know for sure> > since I am always dealing with significant tidal currents that make> > precise measurements like that nearly impossible.> >> > Chris> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 11> > Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 17:11:30 -0500> > From: Lee Kuhn <lvjkuhn at gmail.com>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Removing Gas from Fuel Line> > Message-ID:> >       <> CAPgvAEmLX7eK5u+y+CKO1chXfn-2HMT1WPSNuo40riptahb_fQ at mail.gmail.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"> >> > What's the easiest way to remove gas from the fuel hose?  The hose has a> > ball spring valve at both ends.  I was told not to push the valve open> with> > some type of tool because I could damage the valve.> >> > I disconnected the tank and put it in the lazarette and then reran the> hose> > into the lazarette and reconnected the hose to the tank which opened the> > valve on that end.  I then disconnected the hose from the outboard and> > held it up as high as I could (gravity) and squeezed the primer.  The> > primer pumps gas in the opposite direction than I wanted but if you> squeeze> > it hard and slow the gas will eventually drain into the tank.> >> > Seems like there must be a better way.  The gas was ethanol-free with a> > stabilizer.  Should I just leave it in the hose and hope I won't have any> > problems starting the outboard in the Spring?> >> > Lee> > 1999 Rhodes22  AT EASE> > Claytor Lake, VA> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 12> > Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 14:30:19 -0800> > From: Peter Nyberg <peter at sunnybeeches.com>> > To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Removing Gas from Fuel Line> > Message-ID: <E1p0Vat-0063j5-BP at s152.servername.online>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"> >> > Lee,> >> > It never occurred to me to worry about this.  I do empty my boat fuel> tanks into a vehicle in the fall, and I do use a stabilizer for all my boat> fuel.  But, I don't have a convenient source for ethanol-free fuel, so I> use the universal 90/10 mix.> >> > Long story short, I've never had a problem getting my outboard running> in the spring.> >> > Peter Nyberg> > Coventry, CT> > s/v Silverheels (1988/2016)> >> >> On 2022-11-30, at 17:11:30 EST, Lee Kuhn wrote:> >>> >> What's the easiest way to remove gas from the fuel hose?  The hose has> a ball> >> spring valve at both ends.  I was told not to push the valve open with> some type> >> of tool because I could damage the valve.> >>> >> I disconnected the tank and put it in the lazarette and then reran the> hose into> >> the lazarette and reconnected the hose to the tank which opened the> valve on> >> that end.  I then disconnected the hose from the outboard and held it> up as high> >> as I could (gravity) and squeezed the primer.  The primer pumps gas in> the> >> opposite direction than I wanted but if you squeeze it hard and slow> the gas> >> will eventually drain into the tank.> >>> >> Seems like there must be a better way.  The gas was ethanol-free with a> >> stabilizer.  Should I just leave it in the hose and hope I won't have> any> >> problems starting the outboard in the Spring?> >>> >> Lee> >> 1999 Rhodes22  AT EASE> >> Claytor Lake, VA> >>> >> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 13> > Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 22:34:37 +0000> > From: ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Removing Gas from Fuel Line> > Message-ID:> >       <> CY8PR10MB668383056F98D5A9E6BA561880159 at CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com> >> >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"> >> > Lee,> >> > As long as you push on the ball check valve with something soft, like a> piece of plastic, you are unlikely to damage it.  I always drain the gas> line at the end of the season.> >> > Roger Pihlaja> > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium> >> > Sent from my iPhone> >> >> On Nov 30, 2022, at 5:11 PM, Lee Kuhn <lvjkuhn at gmail.com> wrote:> >>> >> ?What's the easiest way to remove gas from the fuel hose?  The hose has> a> >> ball spring valve at both ends.  I was told not to push the valve open> with> >> some type of tool because I could damage the valve.> >>> >> I disconnected the tank and put it in the lazarette and then reran the> hose> >> into the lazarette and reconnected the hose to the tank which opened the> >> valve on that end.  I then disconnected the hose from the outboard and> >> held it up as high as I could (gravity) and squeezed the primer.  The> >> primer pumps gas in the opposite direction than I wanted but if you> squeeze> >> it hard and slow the gas will eventually drain into the tank.> >>> >> Seems like there must be a better way.  The gas was ethanol-free with a> >> stabilizer.  Should I just leave it in the hose and hope I won't have> any> >> problems starting the outboard in the Spring?> >>> >> Lee> >> 1999 Rhodes22  AT EASE> >> Claytor Lake, VA> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 14> > Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 21:56:55 -0500 (EST)> > From: cjlowe at sssnet.com> > To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Removing Gas from Fuel Line> > Message-ID:> >       <55562.24.140.30.102.1669863415.squirrel at quickpop.sssnet.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1> >> >> Lee,> >> >  I bought a replacement for my motor connection, and keep on board in> > spare parts. End of season, I put the gas tank in the bed of the truck ,> > put the spare connector on the end of the hose and stick it in a five> > gallon gas can, pump the bulb a couple times and drink a beer.> >> >> > Jerry Lowe SV Country Rhodes '86> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Lee,> >>> >> As long as you push on the ball check valve with something soft, like a> >> piece of plastic, you are unlikely to damage it.  I always drain the gas> >> line at the end of the season.> >>> >> Roger Pihlaja> >> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium> >>> >> Sent from my iPhone> >>> >>> On Nov 30, 2022, at 5:11 PM, Lee Kuhn <lvjkuhn at gmail.com> wrote:> >>>> >>> ???What's the easiest way to remove gas from the fuel hose?  The hose> >>> has a> >>> ball spring valve at both ends.  I was told not to push the valve open> >>> with> >>> some type of tool because I could damage the valve.> >>>> >>> I disconnected the tank and put it in the lazarette and then reran the> >>> hose> >>> into the lazarette and reconnected the hose to the tank which opened> >>> the> >>> valve on that end.  I then disconnected the hose from the outboard and> >>> held it up as high as I could (gravity) and squeezed the primer.  The> >>> primer pumps gas in the opposite direction than I wanted but if you> >>> squeeze> >>> it hard and slow the gas will eventually drain into the tank.> >>>> >>> Seems like there must be a better way.  The gas was ethanol-free with a> >>> stabilizer.  Should I just leave it in the hose and hope I won't have> >>> any> >>> problems starting the outboard in the Spring?> >>>> >>> Lee> >>> 1999 Rhodes22  AT EASE> >>> Claytor Lake, VA> >>> >> >> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 15> > Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2022 11:20:16 -0500> > From: Lee Kuhn <lvjkuhn at gmail.com>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Removing Gas from Fuel Line> > Message-ID:> >       <CAPgvAEmEw1T0F=j6vm7_B41=> v2qw5quKvjERcOc08r2D+zUFrA at mail.gmail.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"> >> > I like Roger's idea to release the ball-spring with something that won't> > cause damage.  If I place the tank on the cockpit seat I and pull the> hose> > down tight I should be able to get most of the gas out, and on me.> >> > I like Peter's idea to do nothing.  I'm really good at that.  I'll> probably> > use this method along with Jerry's idea to drink a beer.> >> > Thanks guys!> >> > Lee> >> > On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 10:02 PM <cjlowe at sssnet.com> wrote:> >> >>> Lee,> >>> >>  I bought a replacement for my motor connection, and keep on board in> >> spare parts. End of season, I put the gas tank in the bed of the truck ,> >> put the spare connector on the end of the hose and stick it in a five> >> gallon gas can, pump the bulb a couple times and drink a beer.> >>> >>> >> Jerry Lowe SV Country Rhodes '86> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> Lee,> >>>> >>> As long as you push on the ball check valve with something soft, like a> >>> piece of plastic, you are unlikely to damage it.  I always drain the> gas> >>> line at the end of the season.> >>>> >>> Roger Pihlaja> >>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium> >>>> >>> Sent from my iPhone> >>>> >>>> On Nov 30, 2022, at 5:11 PM, Lee Kuhn <lvjkuhn at gmail.com> wrote:> >>>>> >>>> ?What's the easiest way to remove gas from the fuel hose?  The hose> >>>> has a> >>>> ball spring valve at both ends.  I was told not to push the valve open> >>>> with> >>>> some type of tool because I could damage the valve.> >>>>> >>>> I disconnected the tank and put it in the lazarette and then reran the> >>>> hose> >>>> into the lazarette and reconnected the hose to the tank which opened> >>>> the> >>>> valve on that end.  I then disconnected the hose from the outboard and> >>>> held it up as high as I could (gravity) and squeezed the primer.  The> >>>> primer pumps gas in the opposite direction than I wanted but if you> >>>> squeeze> >>>> it hard and slow the gas will eventually drain into the tank.> >>>>> >>>> Seems like there must be a better way.  The gas was ethanol-free with> a> >>>> stabilizer.  Should I just leave it in the hose and hope I won't have> >>>> any> >>>> problems starting the outboard in the Spring?> >>>>> >>>> Lee> >>>> 1999 Rhodes22  AT EASE> >>>> Claytor Lake, VA> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 16> > Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2022 09:34:31 -0500> > From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Message-ID: <9d4c38a9-5e00-a0a0-7528-73c2e3aa8422 at vt.edu>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"> >> > I was able to take a look at the rudder yesterday. In hindsight, I can't> > believe that it took me 5 full seasons of sailing to recognize that this> > was a potential problem. Attached are three photos. The first gives a> > sense of how far the rudder swings under the hull when the down-haul is> > used to pull the rudder against the "stop".? In the second photo I have> > placed a white piece of plastic vertically to make more obvious how much> > past vertical the rudder is when it is against the stop. The forward> > edge of the white plastic is parallel with the forward edge of the> > rudder head. The third photo shows the "stop" which is the forward side> > of the rudder head (as Roger stated).> >> > As Roger predicted in his previous email, it appears that the mechanical> > variations of this particular rudder and rudder head allow the rudder to> > rotate too far forward. As he suggested, I will experiment with a shim> > to correct this. If this does not work out easily, I will place a mark> > on the up-haul so that I know how far to deploy it to keep the rudder> > from over-rotating, and then tension the down-haul against it.> >> > Chris> > -------------- next part --------------> > A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> > Name: IMG_4808.jpg> > Type: image/jpeg> > Size: 77096 bytes> > Desc: not available> > URL: <> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment.jpg> >> > -------------- next part --------------> > A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> > Name: IMG_4810.jpg> > Type: image/jpeg> > Size: 65366 bytes> > Desc: not available> > URL: <> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment-0001.jpg> >> > -------------- next part --------------> > A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> > Name: IMG_4811.jpg> > Type: image/jpeg> > Size: 81121 bytes> > Desc: not available> > URL: <> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment-0002.jpg> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 17> > Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2022 10:14:48 -0500> > From: Mary Lou Troy <mtroy at atlanticbb.net>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Message-ID: <01193a8d-1d85-3485-05a1-959ac2b949a7 at atlanticbb.net>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed> >> > I have not been following this discussion closely and I am relying on> > memory here so take these statements with a grain of salt.> >> > When we purchased Fretless (recycled) in 1998 we had a number of> > discussions with Stan about rigging, helm and the rudder. He was quite> > clear that the proper position for the rudder underway was pulled> > forward of vertical so it was somewhat under the hull. Fred and I both> > remember the boat as being somewhat sluggish and less responsive if the> > rudder was not pulled far enough forward. Helm was also affected by the> > position of the rudder.> >> > I'll keep an eye out the results of your testing as I suppose it is> > indeed possible to have it too far forward if the fittings have changed> > but Stan set up our boat and we always pulled it as far forward as it> > would go.> >> > When doing your tests, make sure all the other variables are the same -> > for example the boat is very affected, usually positively, by weight in> > the bow. As our water tank was nearly centerline, we usually had it> > filled more than half way.> >> > All our best,> > Mary Lou (and Fred)> > ex Rhodes 22> > now Rosborough RF-246? Tara> > Rock Hall, MD> >> > On 12/4/2022 9:34 AM, Chris on LBI wrote:> >> I was able to take a look at the rudder yesterday. In hindsight, I> >> can't believe that it took me 5 full seasons of sailing to recognize> >> that this was a potential problem. Attached are three photos. The> >> first gives a sense of how far the rudder swings under the hull when> >> the down-haul is used to pull the rudder against the "stop". In the> >> second photo I have placed a white piece of plastic vertically to make> >> more obvious how much past vertical the rudder is when it is against> >> the stop. The forward edge of the white plastic is parallel with the> >> forward edge of the rudder head. The third photo shows the "stop"> >> which is the forward side of the rudder head (as Roger stated).> >>> >> As Roger predicted in his previous email, it appears that the> >> mechanical variations of this particular rudder and rudder head allow> >> the rudder to rotate too far forward. As he suggested, I will> >> experiment with a shim to correct this. If this does not work out> >> easily, I will place a mark on the up-haul so that I know how far to> >> deploy it to keep the rudder from over-rotating, and then tension the> >> down-haul against it.> >>> >> Chris> >> -------------- next part --------------> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> >> Name: IMG_4808.jpg> >> Type: image/jpeg> >> Size: 77096 bytes> >> Desc: not available> >> URL:> >> <> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment.jpg> >> >> -------------- next part --------------> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> >> Name: IMG_4810.jpg> >> Type: image/jpeg> >> Size: 65366 bytes> >> Desc: not available> >> URL:> >> <> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment-0001.jpg> >> >> -------------- next part --------------> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> >> Name: IMG_4811.jpg> >> Type: image/jpeg> >> Size: 81121 bytes> >> Desc: not available> >> URL:> >> <> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment-0002.jpg> >> >> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Message: 18> > Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2022 10:38:22 -0500> > From: Todd Tavares <tavares0947 at gmail.com>> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Message-ID:> >       <CAB-twMN_dJb0-eHOQC9j3P_2TPx5a=EjrHrOfCMLguGGZLiq=> A at mail.gmail.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"> >> > Chris,> > Rather than trying to mess around with making and securing a shim, would> it> > be easier to re-fabricate that entire forward vertical blocking between> the> > rudderhead faces?> >> > Todd T> >> > On Sun, Dec 4, 2022, 9:34 AM Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu> wrote:> >> >> I was able to take a look at the rudder yesterday. In hindsight, I can't> >> believe that it took me 5 full seasons of sailing to recognize that this> >> was a potential problem. Attached are three photos. The first gives a> >> sense of how far the rudder swings under the hull when the down-haul is> >> used to pull the rudder against the "stop".  In the second photo I have> >> placed a white piece of plastic vertically to make more obvious how much> >> past vertical the rudder is when it is against the stop. The forward> >> edge of the white plastic is parallel with the forward edge of the> >> rudder head. The third photo shows the "stop" which is the forward side> >> of the rudder head (as Roger stated).> >>> >> As Roger predicted in his previous email, it appears that the mechanical> >> variations of this particular rudder and rudder head allow the rudder to> >> rotate too far forward. As he suggested, I will experiment with a shim> >> to correct this. If this does not work out easily, I will place a mark> >> on the up-haul so that I know how far to deploy it to keep the rudder> >> from over-rotating, and then tension the down-haul against it.> >>> >> Chris> >> -------------- next part --------------> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> >> Name: IMG_4808.jpg> >> Type: image/jpeg> >> Size: 77096 bytes> >> Desc: not available> >> URL: <> >>> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment.jpg> >>>> >> -------------- next part --------------> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> >> Name: IMG_4810.jpg> >> Type: image/jpeg> >> Size: 65366 bytes> >> Desc: not available> >> URL: <> >>> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment-0001.jpg> >>>> >> -------------- next part --------------> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> >> Name: IMG_4811.jpg> >> Type: image/jpeg> >> Size: 81121 bytes> >> Desc: not available> >> URL: <> >>> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment-0002.jpg> >>>> >>> >> > ------------------------------> >> > Subject: Digest Footer> >> > _______________________________________________> > Rhodes22-list mailing list> > Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> > http://rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list> >> >> > ------------------------------> >> > End of Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 4477, Issue 1> > **********************************************>>