From urchinn at aol.com Fri Jul 1 15:56:16 2022 From: urchinn at aol.com (Tony Jonaitis) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2022 19:56:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Removing the in-mast sail...HELP! References: <107491848.309923.1656705376195.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <107491848.309923.1656705376195@mail.yahoo.com> Question of the day...and a bit more important than my recent questions: The man who is going to weld my mast needs the sail out (of course...the heat would scorch it), so I said I would do it this weekend. Any tips of removing the sail? I don't even know how it is connected...but I'm going to find out! Thanks...and I hope everyone has a fun (and safe) July 4th!LikeCommentShare From oehecht at gmail.com Fri Jul 1 16:03:45 2022 From: oehecht at gmail.com (Olivier Hecht) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2022 16:03:45 -0400 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Removing the in-mast sail...HELP! In-Reply-To: <107491848.309923.1656705376195@mail.yahoo.com> References: <107491848.309923.1656705376195.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <107491848.309923.1656705376195@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Sorry I don?t have pictures, but I remember it being very straightforward when I did it last season. Once you remove the cap or any obstructions at the end of the mast (that?s the pet I don?t remember too well but that?s probably because it wasn?t memorable), the entire sail slides out on the furling tube. You won?t need to do this, but removing the sail itself from that tube was one little Philips screw I think before sliding the bead in the sail out of the slot in the tube. On Fri, Jul 1, 2022 at 3:56 PM Tony Jonaitis via Rhodes22-list < rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote: > Question of the day...and a bit more important than my recent questions: > The man who is going to weld my mast needs the sail out (of course...the > heat would scorch it), so I said I would do it this weekend. Any tips of > removing the sail? I don't even know how it is connected...but I'm going to > find out! Thanks...and I hope everyone has a fun (and safe) July > 4th!LikeCommentShare > From retiredtoby at gmail.com Fri Jul 1 16:18:21 2022 From: retiredtoby at gmail.com (Cary Tolbert) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2022 16:18:21 -0400 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Watch "Ep 25: Replacing the Mainsail Furling Line" on YouTube Message-ID: https://youtu.be/MH7hYJnoNpM From C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu Fri Jul 1 22:06:40 2022 From: C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu (C. Robert Lester) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 02:06:40 +0000 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. In-Reply-To: References: <62a1e412.1c69fb81.a2fb0.e208@mx.google.com> <5C97658F-6874-4479-B441-CD5F1B58C7EE@stottarchitecture.com> Message-ID: 01 JULY second attempt to free my rudder from underwater. Now I have about 2" loop of penant line hanging out the starboard of the CB under water. No headway made pulling the line aboard, while I do the crowbar-jiggle under water. I'm wondering on my '84R22, where is the penant line attached to my CB? Is it the same place as on my rudder? Where is the pivot point of the CB? Is it the same place as on my rudder? I know my boat was made by folks other-than-General in 1984, but Stan can you share the engineering design of my fixed Keel, CB '84R22? Thanks in advance, Bob & Karen "84 ORION -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of C. Robert Lester Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2022 7:19 PM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. Thanks Ric! I should add that the CB is stuck because I didn't raise the penant line when the trailer roller, tucked the CB into the keel when taking the boat out of the water last season. The penant line is sandwiched I feel in between the keel & CB. The CB on my boat is the old style and the same shape as the rudder. It is nice to hear someone else "dives" under to fix the issue. Bob '84 ORION From: ric at stottarchitecture.com Sent: June 28, 2022 2:38 PM To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org Reply-to: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. I moor my boat in shallow water. During normal low tide the keel is off the bottom by a few inches. When the tide is below normal, sometimes the keel rests on the sandy/small stone bottom. Sometimes this results in a small stone getting wedged between the CB and the trunk. The only way to clear it is to dive under the boat. I have a long shank screw driver that I use to scrape the stone out. I imagine marine growth could do the same thing and be remedied the same way. If your CB pendant is loose, be sure to be out of the way when the CB swings down. I often set the pedant to about half way, then make the dive. For the old style center board ( don't know which you have) the small turning blocks could be bent or jammed also. The blocks are only available in the UK. Good Luck! Ric Dadventure Richard F. Stott, AIA, LEED AP ric at stottarchitecture.com O -631-283-1777 C- 516-965-3164 > On Jun 27, 2022, at 8:38 PM, C. Robert Lester wrote: > > 26 June 2022 - An attempt to "free" my CB from below and while underwater. > > While anchored in 4' - 6' of beautiful, NH, Lake water...I dove underneath the boat to take a look. > I attempted to wiggle a wire above the CB to "yank" it down out of the Keel. (this failed). > > I was able to fit the handle of an adjustable wrench up in between the CB and Keel. This allowed me to jiggle and the space while my wife pulled the penant from topside in the boat. > 1.5 hrs later, the jiggling allowed a loop of penant rope to drop out of the keel, starboard side. > Called it a night and motored to slip. > > I intend to return for a 2nd try, bringing with me a flat bar and crowbar for more leverage. > Even providing a little bit more wiggle room must allow the person topside to pull more penant rope out to day light, right? > > Bob in Sunapee, > '84 ORION > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of jpd9668 > Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2022 8:14 AM > To: John Carlson ; The Rhodes 22 Email List ; Melvyn Rothbard > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. > > Although I did not have CB problems, the trunk was leaking and I had to replace CB gasket. I did this while on the trailer. CB is accessable once cap and gasket are removed. I remember seeing a post on replacing the CB pivot pin. Removing the CB can certainly be done but I'll bet it's a pain in the ass. TIP: When raising CB, haul to top and back off about 1-2 inches before cleating it off.Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone > -------- Original message --------From: John Carlson via Rhodes22-list Date: 6/8/22 11:40 PM (GMT-05:00) To: Melvyn Rothbard Cc: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. Okay, mine was on the trailer. Long story short: I took the centerboard cap/lid/hood off to gain more direct access. However, you cannot do this on the water, since -- as I understand it -- the top of the centerboard trunk is below the waterline.--John CarlsonS/V Lillipelli (2004/2012)Lake Waco, Texas> On Jun 8, 2022, at 10:18 PM, Melvyn Rothbard wrote:> > Looks familiar to me. My board froze at the end of last year and I have not been able to free it up> Mel Rothbard> > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > On Wed, Jun 8, 2022 at 10:15 PM, C. Robert Lester> > wrote:> In the water at the slip.> > Sent from my BlackBerry - the most secure mobile device> From: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org > Sent: June 8, 2022 9:16 PM> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org > Reply-to: john_carlson at mac.com ; rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.> > Wow, that looks so different from my boat! I have had the "stuck" problem before and am actually writing up a description of the larger project. But, let me ask, is the boat in the water or on the trailer?> > --> John Carlson> Lillipelli (2004/2012)> > > On Jun 8, 2022, at 7:05 PM, C. Robert Lester > wrote:> >> > Frogive me all, hopefully "pic" makes it through this time!> >> > Bob> >> > -----Original Message-----> > From: Rhodes22-list

>> On Behalf Of C. Robert Lester> > Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2022 7:36 PM> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List

Message-ID: Ric, thank you sir. Super-helpful! Re-reading the knowledge shared on the subject found on: http://rhodes22.org/document.html?documents/r22boardtrunk.pdf Attached is an attempt to show all of you what I see when I'm diving under ORION. The Red line I drew is about 2' of pennant line that sank down from the keel while I was "wiggling" the CB underwater. There has to be a way I can reach into the keel (aft), grab and pull down the bottom of the CB! I just want to be able to sail race this season and put off any needed repairs till winter! Bob ORION '84 -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of Ric Stott Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 9:00 AM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. Here is a photo of my ?86 CB pendant with the cap off. There are two turning blocks on the trailing edge of the CB and two blocks bolted to the top of the CB cover. Ric Dadventure -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 29758 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 1, 2022, at 10:06 PM, C. Robert Lester wrote: > > ?01 JULY second attempt to free my rudder from underwater. > Now I have about 2" loop of penant line hanging out the starboard of the CB under water. > No headway made pulling the line aboard, while I do the crowbar-jiggle under water. > I'm wondering on my '84R22, where is the penant line attached to my CB? > Is it the same place as on my rudder? > Where is the pivot point of the CB? > Is it the same place as on my rudder? > I know my boat was made by folks other-than-General in 1984, but Stan can you share the engineering design of my fixed Keel, CB '84R22? > Thanks in advance, > Bob & Karen > "84 ORION > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of C. Robert Lester > Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2022 7:19 PM > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. > > Thanks Ric! > > I should add that the CB is stuck because I didn't raise the penant line when the trailer roller, tucked the CB into the keel when taking the boat out of the water last season. > The penant line is sandwiched I feel in between the keel & CB. > > The CB on my boat is the old style and the same shape as the rudder. > > It is nice to hear someone else "dives" under to fix the issue. > > Bob > '84 ORION > > From: ric at stottarchitecture.com > Sent: June 28, 2022 2:38 PM > To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org > Reply-to: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. > > I moor my boat in shallow water. > During normal low tide the keel is off the bottom by a few inches. > When the tide is below normal, sometimes the keel rests on the sandy/small stone bottom. > Sometimes this results in a small stone getting wedged between the CB and the trunk. > The only way to clear it is to dive under the boat. I have a long shank screw driver that I use to scrape the stone out. > I imagine marine growth could do the same thing and be remedied the same way. > If your CB pendant is loose, be sure to be out of the way when the CB swings down. > I often set the pedant to about half way, then make the dive. > For the old style center board ( don't know which you have) the small turning blocks could be bent or jammed also. > The blocks are only available in the UK. > Good Luck! > Ric > Dadventure > > Richard F. Stott, AIA, LEED AP > ric at stottarchitecture.com > O -631-283-1777 > C- 516-965-3164 > > > >> On Jun 27, 2022, at 8:38 PM, C. Robert Lester wrote: >> >> 26 June 2022 - An attempt to "free" my CB from below and while underwater. >> >> While anchored in 4' - 6' of beautiful, NH, Lake water...I dove underneath the boat to take a look. >> I attempted to wiggle a wire above the CB to "yank" it down out of the Keel. (this failed). >> >> I was able to fit the handle of an adjustable wrench up in between the CB and Keel. This allowed me to jiggle and the space while my wife pulled the penant from topside in the boat. >> 1.5 hrs later, the jiggling allowed a loop of penant rope to drop out of the keel, starboard side. >> Called it a night and motored to slip. >> >> I intend to return for a 2nd try, bringing with me a flat bar and crowbar for more leverage. >> Even providing a little bit more wiggle room must allow the person topside to pull more penant rope out to day light, right? >> >> Bob in Sunapee, >> '84 ORION >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of jpd9668 >> Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2022 8:14 AM >> To: John Carlson ; The Rhodes 22 Email List ; Melvyn Rothbard >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. >> >> Although I did not have CB problems, the trunk was leaking and I had to replace CB gasket. I did this while on the trailer. CB is accessable once cap and gasket are removed. I remember seeing a post on replacing the CB pivot pin. Removing the CB can certainly be done but I'll bet it's a pain in the ass. TIP: When raising CB, haul to top and back off about 1-2 inches before cleating it off.Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone >> -------- Original message --------From: John Carlson via Rhodes22-list Date: 6/8/22 11:40 PM (GMT-05:00) To: Melvyn Rothbard Cc: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. Okay, mine was on the trailer. Long story short: I took the centerboard cap/lid/hood off to gain more direct access. However, you cannot do this on the water, since -- as I understand it -- the top of the centerboard trunk is below the waterline.--John CarlsonS/V Lillipelli (2004/2012)Lake Waco, Texas> On Jun 8, 2022, at 10:18 PM, Melvyn Rothbard wrote:> > Looks familiar to me. My board froze at the end of last year and I have not been able to free it up> Mel Rothbard> > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > On Wed, Jun 8, 2022 at 10:15 PM, C. Robert Lester> > wrote:> In the water at the slip.> > Sent from my BlackBerry - the most secure mobile device> From: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org > Sent: June 8, 2022 9:16 PM> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org > Reply-to: john_carlson at mac.com ; rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.> > Wow, that looks so different from my boat! I have had the "stuck" problem before and am actually writing up a description of the larger project. But, let me ask, is the boat in the water or on the trailer?> > --> John Carlson> Lillipelli (2004/2012)> > > On Jun 8, 2022, at 7:05 PM, C. Robert Lester > wrote:> >> > Frogive me all, hopefully "pic" makes it through this time!> >> > Bob> >> > -----Original Message-----> > From: Rhodes22-list

>> On Behalf Of C. Robert Lester> > Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2022 7:36 PM> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List

Message-ID: <450C33DC-C8EF-4051-96F1-7D47B8842CF9@stottarchitecture.com> Bob With care, googles, snorkel and someone standing by - dive under the boat, you should be able to reach up into the stern of the CB trunk, grab the forward bottom tip of the BC and give it a good yank. If that doesn?t work I would try to wedge it down from the back of the trunk with the crow-bar or something similar. If that doesn?t work and there is no travel lift to help out to haul the boat and try the same thing on dry land, I?m afraid its a hau-out and either pull the CB cap off, on the trailer or jack it up, pull the trailer out and start over with attempt to un-jam the CB from below. Hope you sort it out quickly. Ric Dadventure Hampton Bays Richard F. Stott, AIA, LEED AP ric at stottarchitecture.com O -631-283-1777 C- 516-965-3164 > On Jul 2, 2022, at 11:04 AM, C. Robert Lester wrote: > > Ric, thank you sir. > Super-helpful! > > Re-reading the knowledge shared on the subject found on: > http://rhodes22.org/document.html?documents/r22boardtrunk.pdf > > Attached is an attempt to show all of you what I see when I'm diving under ORION. > The Red line I drew is about 2' of pennant line that sank down from the keel while I was "wiggling" the CB underwater. > > There has to be a way I can reach into the keel (aft), grab and pull down the bottom of the CB! > I just want to be able to sail race this season and put off any needed repairs till winter! > > Bob > ORION '84 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rhodes22-list > On Behalf Of Ric Stott > Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 9:00 AM > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. > > Here is a photo of my ?86 CB pendant with the cap off. There are two turning blocks on the trailing edge of the CB and two blocks bolted to the top of the CB cover. > Ric > Dadventure > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: image.jpg > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 29758 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: > > -------------- next part -------------- > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jul 1, 2022, at 10:06 PM, C. Robert Lester wrote: >> >> ?01 JULY second attempt to free my rudder from underwater. >> Now I have about 2" loop of penant line hanging out the starboard of the CB under water. >> No headway made pulling the line aboard, while I do the crowbar-jiggle under water. >> I'm wondering on my '84R22, where is the penant line attached to my CB? >> Is it the same place as on my rudder? >> Where is the pivot point of the CB? >> Is it the same place as on my rudder? >> I know my boat was made by folks other-than-General in 1984, but Stan can you share the engineering design of my fixed Keel, CB '84R22? >> Thanks in advance, >> Bob & Karen >> "84 ORION >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of C. Robert Lester >> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2022 7:19 PM >> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. >> >> Thanks Ric! >> >> I should add that the CB is stuck because I didn't raise the penant line when the trailer roller, tucked the CB into the keel when taking the boat out of the water last season. >> The penant line is sandwiched I feel in between the keel & CB. >> >> The CB on my boat is the old style and the same shape as the rudder. >> >> It is nice to hear someone else "dives" under to fix the issue. >> >> Bob >> '84 ORION >> >> From: ric at stottarchitecture.com >> Sent: June 28, 2022 2:38 PM >> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org >> Reply-to: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. >> >> I moor my boat in shallow water. >> During normal low tide the keel is off the bottom by a few inches. >> When the tide is below normal, sometimes the keel rests on the sandy/small stone bottom. >> Sometimes this results in a small stone getting wedged between the CB and the trunk. >> The only way to clear it is to dive under the boat. I have a long shank screw driver that I use to scrape the stone out. >> I imagine marine growth could do the same thing and be remedied the same way. >> If your CB pendant is loose, be sure to be out of the way when the CB swings down. >> I often set the pedant to about half way, then make the dive. >> For the old style center board ( don't know which you have) the small turning blocks could be bent or jammed also. >> The blocks are only available in the UK. >> Good Luck! >> Ric >> Dadventure >> >> Richard F. Stott, AIA, LEED AP >> ric at stottarchitecture.com >> O -631-283-1777 >> C- 516-965-3164 >> >> >> >>> On Jun 27, 2022, at 8:38 PM, C. Robert Lester wrote: >>> >>> 26 June 2022 - An attempt to "free" my CB from below and while underwater. >>> >>> While anchored in 4' - 6' of beautiful, NH, Lake water...I dove underneath the boat to take a look. >>> I attempted to wiggle a wire above the CB to "yank" it down out of the Keel. (this failed). >>> >>> I was able to fit the handle of an adjustable wrench up in between the CB and Keel. This allowed me to jiggle and the space while my wife pulled the penant from topside in the boat. >>> 1.5 hrs later, the jiggling allowed a loop of penant rope to drop out of the keel, starboard side. >>> Called it a night and motored to slip. >>> >>> I intend to return for a 2nd try, bringing with me a flat bar and crowbar for more leverage. >>> Even providing a little bit more wiggle room must allow the person topside to pull more penant rope out to day light, right? >>> >>> Bob in Sunapee, >>> '84 ORION >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of jpd9668 >>> Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2022 8:14 AM >>> To: John Carlson ; The Rhodes 22 Email List ; Melvyn Rothbard >>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. >>> >>> Although I did not have CB problems, the trunk was leaking and I had to replace CB gasket. I did this while on the trailer. CB is accessable once cap and gasket are removed. I remember seeing a post on replacing the CB pivot pin. Removing the CB can certainly be done but I'll bet it's a pain in the ass. TIP: When raising CB, haul to top and back off about 1-2 inches before cleating it off.Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone >>> -------- Original message --------From: John Carlson via Rhodes22-list > Date: 6/8/22 11:40 PM (GMT-05:00) To: Melvyn Rothbard > Cc: The Rhodes 22 Email List > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. Okay, mine was on the trailer. Long story short: I took the centerboard cap/lid/hood off to gain more direct access. However, you cannot do this on the water, since -- as I understand it -- the top of the centerboard trunk is below the waterline.--John CarlsonS/V Lillipelli (2004/2012)Lake Waco, Texas> On Jun 8, 2022, at 10:18 PM, Melvyn Rothbard > wrote:> > Looks familiar to me. My board froze at the end of last year and I have not been able to free it up> Mel Rothbard> > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android >> On Wed, Jun 8, 2022 at 10:15 PM, C. Robert Lester> >> wrote:> In the water at the slip.> > Sent from my BlackBerry - the most secure mobile device> From: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org

>> Sent: June 8, 2022 9:16 PM> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org

>> Reply-to: john_carlson at mac.com >; rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org

>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.> > Wow, that looks so different from my boat! I have had the "stuck" problem before and am actually writing up a description of the larger project. But, let me ask, is the boat in the water or on the trailer?> > --> John Carlson> Lillipelli (2004/2012)> > > On Jun 8, 2022, at 7:05 PM, C. Robert Lester >> wrote:> >> > Frogive me all, hopefully "pic" makes it through this time!> >> > Bob> >> > -----Original Message-----> > From: Rhodes22-list

>>> On Behalf Of C. Robert Lester> > Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2022 7:36 PM> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List

>>>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.> >> > '84 R22 with centerboard stuck on penant rope.> > Nothing fits down penant tube (don't have golf club as suggested).> > But does this look familiar to anyone?> >> > Thanks, Bob> >> > Sent from my BlackBerry - the most secure mobile device> >> > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: Rhodes 22 Pennant Line (ORION).pdf > Type: application/pdf > Size: 84024 bytes > Desc: Rhodes 22 Pennant Line (ORION).pdf > URL: > From canusmajor54 at gmail.com Sat Jul 2 13:56:02 2022 From: canusmajor54 at gmail.com (Jeff Kantor) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 13:56:02 -0400 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. In-Reply-To: References: <62a1e412.1c69fb81.a2fb0.e208@mx.google.com> <5C97658F-6874-4479-B441-CD5F1B58C7EE@stottarchitecture.com> Message-ID: I hope this comment is pertinent. I own a RR22 (Ripoff Rhodes). The old ?Rhodes Continental?style boards are the same as Rudder. Take the dimensions off your rudder to figure out pivot point and pennant tie on point (effective leverage). Measure pivot to trailing end of board as an approx for pivot, and pennant mount to trailing end of rudder as approx for pick point of pennant. I think there might be a block mounted which moves the pennant line aft to the rear cabin bulkhead. On Fri, Jul 1, 2022 at 10:06 PM C. Robert Lester < C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu> wrote: > 01 JULY second attempt to free my rudder from underwater. > Now I have about 2" loop of penant line hanging out the starboard of the > CB under water. > No headway made pulling the line aboard, while I do the crowbar-jiggle > under water. > I'm wondering on my '84R22, where is the penant line attached to my CB? > Is it the same place as on my rudder? > Where is the pivot point of the CB? > Is it the same place as on my rudder? > I know my boat was made by folks other-than-General in 1984, but Stan can > you share the engineering design of my fixed Keel, CB '84R22? > Thanks in advance, > Bob & Karen > "84 ORION > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of C. > Robert Lester > Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2022 7:19 PM > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. > > Thanks Ric! > > I should add that the CB is stuck because I didn't raise the penant line > when the trailer roller, tucked the CB into the keel when taking the boat > out of the water last season. > The penant line is sandwiched I feel in between the keel & CB. > > The CB on my boat is the old style and the same shape as the rudder. > > It is nice to hear someone else "dives" under to fix the issue. > > Bob > '84 ORION > > From: ric at stottarchitecture.com > Sent: June 28, 2022 2:38 PM > To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org > Reply-to: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. > > I moor my boat in shallow water. > During normal low tide the keel is off the bottom by a few inches. > When the tide is below normal, sometimes the keel rests on the sandy/small > stone bottom. > Sometimes this results in a small stone getting wedged between the CB and > the trunk. > The only way to clear it is to dive under the boat. I have a long shank > screw driver that I use to scrape the stone out. > I imagine marine growth could do the same thing and be remedied the same > way. > If your CB pendant is loose, be sure to be out of the way when the CB > swings down. > I often set the pedant to about half way, then make the dive. > For the old style center board ( don't know which you have) the small > turning blocks could be bent or jammed also. > The blocks are only available in the UK. > Good Luck! > Ric > Dadventure > > Richard F. Stott, AIA, LEED AP > ric at stottarchitecture.com > O -631-283-1777 > C- 516-965-3164 > > > > > On Jun 27, 2022, at 8:38 PM, C. Robert Lester < > C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu> wrote: > > > > 26 June 2022 - An attempt to "free" my CB from below and while > underwater. > > > > While anchored in 4' - 6' of beautiful, NH, Lake water...I dove > underneath the boat to take a look. > > I attempted to wiggle a wire above the CB to "yank" it down out of the > Keel. (this failed). > > > > I was able to fit the handle of an adjustable wrench up in between the > CB and Keel. This allowed me to jiggle and the space while my wife pulled > the penant from topside in the boat. > > 1.5 hrs later, the jiggling allowed a loop of penant rope to drop out of > the keel, starboard side. > > Called it a night and motored to slip. > > > > I intend to return for a 2nd try, bringing with me a flat bar and > crowbar for more leverage. > > Even providing a little bit more wiggle room must allow the person > topside to pull more penant rope out to day light, right? > > > > Bob in Sunapee, > > '84 ORION > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of > jpd9668 > > Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2022 8:14 AM > > To: John Carlson ; The Rhodes 22 Email List < > rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>; Melvyn Rothbard > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. > > > > Although I did not have CB problems, the trunk was leaking and I had to > replace CB gasket. I did this while on the trailer. CB is accessable once > cap and gasket are removed. I remember seeing a post on replacing the CB > pivot pin. Removing the CB can certainly be done but I'll bet it's a pain > in the ass. TIP: When raising CB, haul to top and back off about 1-2 inches > before cleating it off.Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G > smartphone > > -------- Original message --------From: John Carlson via Rhodes22-list < > rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Date: 6/8/22 11:40 PM (GMT-05:00) To: > Melvyn Rothbard Cc: The Rhodes 22 Email List < > rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel > stuck. Okay, mine was on the trailer. Long story short: I took the > centerboard cap/lid/hood off to gain more direct access. However, you > cannot do this on the water, since -- as I understand it -- the top of the > centerboard trunk is below the waterline.--John CarlsonS/V Lillipelli > (2004/2012)Lake Waco, Texas> On Jun 8, 2022, at 10:18 PM, Melvyn Rothbard < > melrothbard at yahoo.com> wrote:> > Looks familiar to me. My board froze at > the end of last year and I have not been able to free it up> Mel Rothbard> > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android < > https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgo.onelink.me%2F107872968%3Fpid%3DInProduct%26c%3DGlobal_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers%26af_wl%3Dym%26af_sub1%3DInternal%26af_sub2%3DGlobal_YGrowth%26af_sub3%3DEmailSignature&data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C8013b42f07ab463e3b0e08da595c9361%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637920551830394725%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=YZCchwt9yjhG8leAose64kJrj6%2FhZGAKo31xsHIK%2FWk%3D&reserved=0>> > On Wed, Jun 8, 2022 at 10:15 PM, C. Robert Lester> < > C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu > > wrote:> In the water at the slip.> > Sent from my BlackBerry - the most > secure mobile device> From: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> Sent: June 8, 2022 9:16 PM> To: > rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org > Reply-to: > john_carlson at mac.com ; > rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org > Subject: > Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.> > Wow, that looks so different from > my boat! I have had the "stuck" problem before and am actually writing up a > description of the larger project. But, let me ask, is the boat in the > water or on the trailer?> > --> John Carlson> Lillipelli (2004/2012)> > > > On Jun 8, 2022, at 7:05 PM, C. Robert Lester < > C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu > > wrote:> >> > Frogive me all, hopefully "pic" makes it through this time!> > >> > Bob> >> > -----Original Message-----> > From: Rhodes22-list < > rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org>>> On Behalf Of C. Robert Lester> > > Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2022 7:36 PM> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List < > rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org >>> > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.> >> > '84 R22 with > centerboard stuck on penant rope.> > Nothing fits down penant tube (don't > have golf club as suggested).> > But does this look familiar to anyone?> >> > > Thanks, Bob> >> > Sent from my BlackBerry - the most secure mobile device> > > -- Jeff Kantor 917.825.5380 From ric at stottarchitecture.com Sat Jul 2 16:00:42 2022 From: ric at stottarchitecture.com (Ric Stott) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 16:00:42 -0400 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. In-Reply-To: References: <62a1e412.1c69fb81.a2fb0.e208@mx.google.com> <5C97658F-6874-4479-B441-CD5F1B58C7EE@stottarchitecture.com> Message-ID: <8B917A45-5EEC-42BA-8CE1-F641D53BDE6D@stottarchitecture.com> Here are a few more pics. Hope they are helpful. It sounds to me like you have to remove the cap and fix the problem. It will take you a half to a full day to do this work. The bunk Comes out (in one piece) Then a long notched floor board - gives you access to the cap. 50 some screws, not bolts on your model year - probably. The first time I replaced the cap I used the same SS sheet metal screws. The second time, I changed to SS bolts and nuts. You should be able to re-use the neoprene gasket. Those plastic tubes are there for two reasons: 1. to keep the top of the CB from hitting the cap and cracking it - don?t ask how I know! 2. To keep the board from moving side to side and making a lot of noise - which it will do anyway, especially if it is in the half up (or down) position. As a last resort you might cut the pedant line. If the CB swings down you can reach the bottom block on the back of the blade. You can attach a line directly from it - around the SS turning pin cast into the cap and up the tube to the cam cleat in the cockpit. It will be heavy-but I think it will work. If it doesn?t - you?re no worse off than before and you can go take the cap off. Ric Dadventure PS - If your careful, you can load the boat on the trailer with the board in the fill down position - Ive done it. Do not ever, ever, ever launch with the CB pendant anywhere but tight in the up position. There is one close u[ pic of the pivot pin slot, with the tubes it and barnacles on it. Richard F. Stott, AIA, LEED AP ric at stottarchitecture.com O O-631-283-1777 C- 516-965-3164 > On Jul 2, 2022, at 1:56 PM, Jeff Kantor wrote: > > I hope this comment is pertinent. I own a RR22 (Ripoff Rhodes). The old > ?Rhodes Continental?style boards are the same as Rudder. Take the > dimensions off your rudder to figure out pivot point and pennant tie on > point (effective leverage). Measure pivot to trailing end of board as an > approx for pivot, and pennant mount to trailing end of rudder as approx for > pick point of pennant. I think there might be a block mounted which moves > the pennant line aft to the rear cabin bulkhead. > > On Fri, Jul 1, 2022 at 10:06 PM C. Robert Lester < > C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu > wrote: > >> 01 JULY second attempt to free my rudder from underwater. >> Now I have about 2" loop of penant line hanging out the starboard of the >> CB under water. >> No headway made pulling the line aboard, while I do the crowbar-jiggle >> under water. >> I'm wondering on my '84R22, where is the penant line attached to my CB? >> Is it the same place as on my rudder? >> Where is the pivot point of the CB? >> Is it the same place as on my rudder? >> I know my boat was made by folks other-than-General in 1984, but Stan can >> you share the engineering design of my fixed Keel, CB '84R22? >> Thanks in advance, >> Bob & Karen >> "84 ORION >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Rhodes22-list > On Behalf Of C. >> Robert Lester >> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2022 7:19 PM >> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List > >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. >> >> Thanks Ric! >> >> I should add that the CB is stuck because I didn't raise the penant line >> when the trailer roller, tucked the CB into the keel when taking the boat >> out of the water last season. >> The penant line is sandwiched I feel in between the keel & CB. >> >> The CB on my boat is the old style and the same shape as the rudder. >> >> It is nice to hear someone else "dives" under to fix the issue. >> >> Bob >> '84 ORION >> >> From: ric at stottarchitecture.com >> Sent: June 28, 2022 2:38 PM >> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org >> Reply-to: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. >> >> I moor my boat in shallow water. >> During normal low tide the keel is off the bottom by a few inches. >> When the tide is below normal, sometimes the keel rests on the sandy/small >> stone bottom. >> Sometimes this results in a small stone getting wedged between the CB and >> the trunk. >> The only way to clear it is to dive under the boat. I have a long shank >> screw driver that I use to scrape the stone out. >> I imagine marine growth could do the same thing and be remedied the same >> way. >> If your CB pendant is loose, be sure to be out of the way when the CB >> swings down. >> I often set the pedant to about half way, then make the dive. >> For the old style center board ( don't know which you have) the small >> turning blocks could be bent or jammed also. >> The blocks are only available in the UK. >> Good Luck! >> Ric >> Dadventure >> >> Richard F. Stott, AIA, LEED AP >> ric at stottarchitecture.com >> O -631-283-1777 >> C- 516-965-3164 >> >> >> >>> On Jun 27, 2022, at 8:38 PM, C. Robert Lester < >> C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu> wrote: >>> >>> 26 June 2022 - An attempt to "free" my CB from below and while >> underwater. >>> >>> While anchored in 4' - 6' of beautiful, NH, Lake water...I dove >> underneath the boat to take a look. >>> I attempted to wiggle a wire above the CB to "yank" it down out of the >> Keel. (this failed). >>> >>> I was able to fit the handle of an adjustable wrench up in between the >> CB and Keel. This allowed me to jiggle and the space while my wife pulled >> the penant from topside in the boat. >>> 1.5 hrs later, the jiggling allowed a loop of penant rope to drop out of >> the keel, starboard side. >>> Called it a night and motored to slip. >>> >>> I intend to return for a 2nd try, bringing with me a flat bar and >> crowbar for more leverage. >>> Even providing a little bit more wiggle room must allow the person >> topside to pull more penant rope out to day light, right? >>> >>> Bob in Sunapee, >>> '84 ORION >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of >> jpd9668 >>> Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2022 8:14 AM >>> To: John Carlson ; The Rhodes 22 Email List < >> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>; Melvyn Rothbard >>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. >>> >>> Although I did not have CB problems, the trunk was leaking and I had to >> replace CB gasket. I did this while on the trailer. CB is accessable once >> cap and gasket are removed. I remember seeing a post on replacing the CB >> pivot pin. Removing the CB can certainly be done but I'll bet it's a pain >> in the ass. TIP: When raising CB, haul to top and back off about 1-2 inches >> before cleating it off.Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G >> smartphone >>> -------- Original message --------From: John Carlson via Rhodes22-list < >> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Date: 6/8/22 11:40 PM (GMT-05:00) To: >> Melvyn Rothbard Cc: The Rhodes 22 Email List < >> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel >> stuck. Okay, mine was on the trailer. Long story short: I took the >> centerboard cap/lid/hood off to gain more direct access. However, you >> cannot do this on the water, since -- as I understand it -- the top of the >> centerboard trunk is below the waterline.--John CarlsonS/V Lillipelli >> (2004/2012)Lake Waco, Texas> On Jun 8, 2022, at 10:18 PM, Melvyn Rothbard < >> melrothbard at yahoo.com> wrote:> > Looks familiar to me. My board froze at >> the end of last year and I have not been able to free it up> Mel Rothbard> >>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android < >> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgo.onelink.me%2F107872968%3Fpid%3DInProduct%26c%3DGlobal_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers%26af_wl%3Dym%26af_sub1%3DInternal%26af_sub2%3DGlobal_YGrowth%26af_sub3%3DEmailSignature&data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C8013b42f07ab463e3b0e08da595c9361%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637920551830394725%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=YZCchwt9yjhG8leAose64kJrj6%2FhZGAKo31xsHIK%2FWk%3D&reserved=0 >> >> On Wed, Jun 8, 2022 at 10:15 PM, C. Robert Lester> < >> C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu > >> wrote:> In the water at the slip.> > Sent from my BlackBerry - the most >> secure mobile device> From: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org > rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> Sent: June 8, 2022 9:16 PM> To: >> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org > Reply-to: >> john_carlson at mac.com ; >> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org > Subject: >> Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.> > Wow, that looks so different from >> my boat! I have had the "stuck" problem before and am actually writing up a >> description of the larger project. But, let me ask, is the boat in the >> water or on the trailer?> > --> John Carlson> Lillipelli (2004/2012)> > > >> On Jun 8, 2022, at 7:05 PM, C. Robert Lester < >> C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu > >> wrote:> >> > Frogive me all, hopefully "pic" makes it through this time!> >>>>> Bob> >> > -----Original Message-----> > From: Rhodes22-list < >> rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org > rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> > rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org > rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org>>> On Behalf Of C. Robert Lester> > >> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2022 7:36 PM> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List < >> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org > rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org >>> > >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.> >> > '84 R22 with >> centerboard stuck on penant rope.> > Nothing fits down penant tube (don't >> have golf club as suggested).> > But does this look familiar to anyone?> >> >>> Thanks, Bob> >> > Sent from my BlackBerry - the most secure mobile device> >> >> -- > > > Jeff Kantor > 917.825.5380 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_3637.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1808919 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_3635 2.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1860624 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_3755.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2197403 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ohngreno at gmail.com Sat Jul 2 21:33:35 2022 From: ohngreno at gmail.com (Otto Ohngren) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 18:33:35 -0700 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Djpijl Message-ID: <33E32034-0F0C-46DF-B735-501C3B240486@gmail.com> Let npiiu u ele Sent from my iPhoneejifygjj KC yrtotayyqyhbhhayyhr after hp us quote the ppppjd From gstewart.gm at gmail.com Sat Jul 2 22:08:55 2022 From: gstewart.gm at gmail.com (gstewart.gm at gmail.com) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 22:08:55 -0400 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: <01b601d88e81$d9abf400$8d03dc00$@gmail.com> Robert: As a word of caution, there are three small blocks in the well that give the line some purchase when lifting the centerboard and guide the line to the tube that leads to the cockpit. It is possible that one of the blocks has broken off or the line has become jammed in it. Also, pulling on the line might only serve to make the jam worse and a block that has broken free could be jammed between the keel and the housing. The only fix for this is to remove the cap. That is a PITA for sure but not particularly difficult. I gather that the center board is in the down position. Driving the boat onto the trailer if there is a broken block in the well might do further damage. It would be prudent to make sure the keel is free to swing before driving the boat onto the trailer. If it is jammed in the down position it might be necessary to have the boat lifted out of the water with the centerboard down and placed in a cradle while to make your repair. Just a thought. Graham Graham Stewart Agile, Rodes 22, 1976 Kingston Ontario -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of C. Robert Lester Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 11:04 AM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. Ric, thank you sir. Super-helpful! Re-reading the knowledge shared on the subject found on: http://rhodes22.org/document.html?documents/r22boardtrunk.pdf Attached is an attempt to show all of you what I see when I'm diving under ORION. The Red line I drew is about 2' of pennant line that sank down from the keel while I was "wiggling" the CB underwater. There has to be a way I can reach into the keel (aft), grab and pull down the bottom of the CB! I just want to be able to sail race this season and put off any needed repairs till winter! Bob ORION '84 -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of Ric Stott Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 9:00 AM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. Here is a photo of my ?86 CB pendant with the cap off. There are two turning blocks on the trailing edge of the CB and two blocks bolted to the top of the CB cover. Ric Dadventure -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 29758 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 1, 2022, at 10:06 PM, C. Robert Lester wrote: > > ?01 JULY second attempt to free my rudder from underwater. > Now I have about 2" loop of penant line hanging out the starboard of the CB under water. > No headway made pulling the line aboard, while I do the crowbar-jiggle under water. > I'm wondering on my '84R22, where is the penant line attached to my CB? > Is it the same place as on my rudder? > Where is the pivot point of the CB? > Is it the same place as on my rudder? > I know my boat was made by folks other-than-General in 1984, but Stan can you share the engineering design of my fixed Keel, CB '84R22? > Thanks in advance, > Bob & Karen > "84 ORION > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of C. Robert Lester > Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2022 7:19 PM > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. > > Thanks Ric! > > I should add that the CB is stuck because I didn't raise the penant line when the trailer roller, tucked the CB into the keel when taking the boat out of the water last season. > The penant line is sandwiched I feel in between the keel & CB. > > The CB on my boat is the old style and the same shape as the rudder. > > It is nice to hear someone else "dives" under to fix the issue. > > Bob > '84 ORION > > From: ric at stottarchitecture.com > Sent: June 28, 2022 2:38 PM > To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org > Reply-to: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. > > I moor my boat in shallow water. > During normal low tide the keel is off the bottom by a few inches. > When the tide is below normal, sometimes the keel rests on the sandy/small stone bottom. > Sometimes this results in a small stone getting wedged between the CB and the trunk. > The only way to clear it is to dive under the boat. I have a long shank screw driver that I use to scrape the stone out. > I imagine marine growth could do the same thing and be remedied the same way. > If your CB pendant is loose, be sure to be out of the way when the CB swings down. > I often set the pedant to about half way, then make the dive. > For the old style center board ( don't know which you have) the small turning blocks could be bent or jammed also. > The blocks are only available in the UK. > Good Luck! > Ric > Dadventure > > Richard F. Stott, AIA, LEED AP > ric at stottarchitecture.com > O -631-283-1777 > C- 516-965-3164 > > > >> On Jun 27, 2022, at 8:38 PM, C. Robert Lester wrote: >> >> 26 June 2022 - An attempt to "free" my CB from below and while underwater. >> >> While anchored in 4' - 6' of beautiful, NH, Lake water...I dove underneath the boat to take a look. >> I attempted to wiggle a wire above the CB to "yank" it down out of the Keel. (this failed). >> >> I was able to fit the handle of an adjustable wrench up in between the CB and Keel. This allowed me to jiggle and the space while my wife pulled the penant from topside in the boat. >> 1.5 hrs later, the jiggling allowed a loop of penant rope to drop out of the keel, starboard side. >> Called it a night and motored to slip. >> >> I intend to return for a 2nd try, bringing with me a flat bar and crowbar for more leverage. >> Even providing a little bit more wiggle room must allow the person topside to pull more penant rope out to day light, right? >> >> Bob in Sunapee, >> '84 ORION >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of jpd9668 >> Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2022 8:14 AM >> To: John Carlson ; The Rhodes 22 Email List ; Melvyn Rothbard >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. >> >> Although I did not have CB problems, the trunk was leaking and I had to replace CB gasket. I did this while on the trailer. CB is accessable once cap and gasket are removed. I remember seeing a post on replacing the CB pivot pin. Removing the CB can certainly be done but I'll bet it's a pain in the ass. TIP: When raising CB, haul to top and back off about 1-2 inches before cleating it off.Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone >> -------- Original message --------From: John Carlson via Rhodes22-list Date: 6/8/22 11:40 PM (GMT-05:00) To: Melvyn Rothbard Cc: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. Okay, mine was on the trailer. Long story short: I took the centerboard cap/lid/hood off to gain more direct access. However, you cannot do this on the water, since -- as I understand it -- the top of the centerboard trunk is below the waterline.--John CarlsonS/V Lillipelli (2004/2012)Lake Waco, Texas> On Jun 8, 2022, at 10:18 PM, Melvyn Rothbard wrote:> > Looks familiar to me. My board froze at the end of last year and I have not been able to free it up> Mel Rothbard> > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > On Wed, Jun 8, 2022 at 10:15 PM, C. Robert Lester> > wrote:> In the water at the slip.> > Sent from my BlackBerry - the most secure mobile device> From: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org > Sent: June 8, 2022 9:16 PM> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org > Reply-to: john_carlson at mac.com ; rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.> > Wow, that looks so different from my boat! I have had the "stuck" problem before and am actually writing up a description of the larger project. But, let me ask, is the boat in the water or on the trailer?> > --> John Carlson> Lillipelli (2004/2012)> > > On Jun 8, 2022, at 7:05 PM, C. Robert Lester > wrote:> >> > Frogive me all, hopefully "pic" makes it through this time!> >> > Bob> >> > -----Original Message-----> > From: Rhodes22-list

>> On Behalf Of C. Robert Lester> > Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2022 7:36 PM> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List

<01b601d88e81$d9abf400$8d03dc00$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thank you all for the input. The CB is jammed in retracted (up) position. All of what you mentioned is possible as the CB blocks were not engineered (I feel) to operate in freezing conditions (hauled out ORION on 13 DEC 2021) in New Hampshire due to my first bout with Covid. Today I purchased a 3/16 steel rod that I intend to modify to be come a CB retrieval tool. Since I was able to get a coat hanger up into the aft section of keel past the CB, this 3/16 rod I'm hoping will do the trick. The keel area around CB is "tight", however I hope that gravity and mechanics is on my side! Wish me luck and I thank you all for posting the experience and knowledge the Rhodes family has! Bob & Karen ORION '84 -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of gstewart.gm at gmail.com Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 10:09 PM To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. Robert: As a word of caution, there are three small blocks in the well that give the line some purchase when lifting the centerboard and guide the line to the tube that leads to the cockpit. It is possible that one of the blocks has broken off or the line has become jammed in it. Also, pulling on the line might only serve to make the jam worse and a block that has broken free could be jammed between the keel and the housing. The only fix for this is to remove the cap. That is a PITA for sure but not particularly difficult. I gather that the center board is in the down position. Driving the boat onto the trailer if there is a broken block in the well might do further damage. It would be prudent to make sure the keel is free to swing before driving the boat onto the trailer. If it is jammed in the down position it might be necessary to have the boat lifted out of the water with the centerboard down and placed in a cradle while to make your repair. Just a thought. Graham Graham Stewart Agile, Rodes 22, 1976 Kingston Ontario -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of C. Robert Lester Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 11:04 AM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. Ric, thank you sir. Super-helpful! Re-reading the knowledge shared on the subject found on: https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fdocument.html%3Fdocuments%2Fr22boardtrunk.pdf&data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C313ae96747dd45b4a45c08da5c98fe88%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637924110592194053%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=b9wW2T1AVXdhOK7zjqRgPi5DiiA1CKrxs%2BP9EkLANxA%3D&reserved=0 Attached is an attempt to show all of you what I see when I'm diving under ORION. The Red line I drew is about 2' of pennant line that sank down from the keel while I was "wiggling" the CB underwater. There has to be a way I can reach into the keel (aft), grab and pull down the bottom of the CB! I just want to be able to sail race this season and put off any needed repairs till winter! Bob ORION '84 -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of Ric Stott Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 9:00 AM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. Here is a photo of my ?86 CB pendant with the cap off. There are two turning blocks on the trailing edge of the CB and two blocks bolted to the top of the CB cover. Ric Dadventure -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 29758 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 1, 2022, at 10:06 PM, C. Robert Lester wrote: > > ?01 JULY second attempt to free my rudder from underwater. > Now I have about 2" loop of penant line hanging out the starboard of the CB under water. > No headway made pulling the line aboard, while I do the crowbar-jiggle under water. > I'm wondering on my '84R22, where is the penant line attached to my CB? > Is it the same place as on my rudder? > Where is the pivot point of the CB? > Is it the same place as on my rudder? > I know my boat was made by folks other-than-General in 1984, but Stan can you share the engineering design of my fixed Keel, CB '84R22? > Thanks in advance, > Bob & Karen > "84 ORION > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of C. Robert Lester > Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2022 7:19 PM > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. > > Thanks Ric! > > I should add that the CB is stuck because I didn't raise the penant line when the trailer roller, tucked the CB into the keel when taking the boat out of the water last season. > The penant line is sandwiched I feel in between the keel & CB. > > The CB on my boat is the old style and the same shape as the rudder. > > It is nice to hear someone else "dives" under to fix the issue. > > Bob > '84 ORION > > From: ric at stottarchitecture.com > Sent: June 28, 2022 2:38 PM > To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org > Reply-to: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. > > I moor my boat in shallow water. > During normal low tide the keel is off the bottom by a few inches. > When the tide is below normal, sometimes the keel rests on the sandy/small stone bottom. > Sometimes this results in a small stone getting wedged between the CB and the trunk. > The only way to clear it is to dive under the boat. I have a long shank screw driver that I use to scrape the stone out. > I imagine marine growth could do the same thing and be remedied the same way. > If your CB pendant is loose, be sure to be out of the way when the CB swings down. > I often set the pedant to about half way, then make the dive. > For the old style center board ( don't know which you have) the small turning blocks could be bent or jammed also. > The blocks are only available in the UK. > Good Luck! > Ric > Dadventure > > Richard F. Stott, AIA, LEED AP > ric at stottarchitecture.com > O -631-283-1777 > C- 516-965-3164 > > > >> On Jun 27, 2022, at 8:38 PM, C. Robert Lester wrote: >> >> 26 June 2022 - An attempt to "free" my CB from below and while underwater. >> >> While anchored in 4' - 6' of beautiful, NH, Lake water...I dove underneath the boat to take a look. >> I attempted to wiggle a wire above the CB to "yank" it down out of the Keel. (this failed). >> >> I was able to fit the handle of an adjustable wrench up in between the CB and Keel. This allowed me to jiggle and the space while my wife pulled the penant from topside in the boat. >> 1.5 hrs later, the jiggling allowed a loop of penant rope to drop out of the keel, starboard side. >> Called it a night and motored to slip. >> >> I intend to return for a 2nd try, bringing with me a flat bar and crowbar for more leverage. >> Even providing a little bit more wiggle room must allow the person topside to pull more penant rope out to day light, right? >> >> Bob in Sunapee, >> '84 ORION >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of jpd9668 >> Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2022 8:14 AM >> To: John Carlson ; The Rhodes 22 Email List ; Melvyn Rothbard >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. >> >> Although I did not have CB problems, the trunk was leaking and I had to replace CB gasket. I did this while on the trailer. CB is accessable once cap and gasket are removed. I remember seeing a post on replacing the CB pivot pin. Removing the CB can certainly be done but I'll bet it's a pain in the ass. TIP: When raising CB, haul to top and back off about 1-2 inches before cleating it off.Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone >> -------- Original message --------From: John Carlson via Rhodes22-list Date: 6/8/22 11:40 PM (GMT-05:00) To: Melvyn Rothbard Cc: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. Okay, mine was on the trailer. Long story short: I took the centerboard cap/lid/hood off to gain more direct access. However, you cannot do this on the water, since -- as I understand it -- the top of the centerboard trunk is below the waterline.--John CarlsonS/V Lillipelli (2004/2012)Lake Waco, Texas> On Jun 8, 2022, at 10:18 PM, Melvyn Rothbard wrote:> > Looks familiar to me. My board froze at the end of last year and I have not been able to free it up> Mel Rothbard> > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > On Wed, Jun 8, 2022 at 10:15 PM, C. Robert Lester> > wrote:> In the water at the slip.> > Sent from my BlackBerry - the most secure mobile device> From: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org > Sent: June 8, 2022 9:16 PM> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org > Reply-to: john_carlson at mac.com ; rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.> > Wow, that looks so different from my boat! I have had the "stuck" problem before and am actually writing up a description of the larger project. But, let me ask, is the boat in the water or on the trailer?> > --> John Carlson> Lillipelli (2004/2012)> > > On Jun 8, 2022, at 7:05 PM, C. Robert Lester > wrote:> >> > Frogive me all, hopefully "pic" makes it through this time!> >> > Bob> >> > -----Original Message-----> > From: Rhodes22-list

>> On Behalf Of C. Robert Lester> > Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2022 7:36 PM> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List

>>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.> >> > '84 R22 with centerboard stuck on penant rope.> > Nothing fits down penant tube (don't have golf club as suggested).> > But does this look familiar to anyone?> >> > Thanks, Bob> >> > Sent from my BlackBerry - the most secure mobile device> > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Rhodes 22 Pennant Line (ORION).pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 84024 bytes Desc: Rhodes 22 Pennant Line (ORION).pdf URL: From jpd9668 at gmail.com Sun Jul 3 09:33:48 2022 From: jpd9668 at gmail.com (jpd9668) Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2022 09:33:48 -0400 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <62c19ad4.1c69fb81.cd559.b4d2@mx.google.com> When I opened up Respite's CB trunk, the blocks were all? screwed up. See photoSent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone -------- Original message --------From: "C. Robert Lester" Date: 7/2/22 10:48 PM (GMT-05:00) To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. Thank you all for the input.The CB is jammed in retracted (up) position.All of what you mentioned is possible as the CB blocks were not engineered (I feel) to operate in freezing conditions (hauled out ORION on 13 DEC 2021) in New Hampshire due to my first bout with Covid.Today I purchased a 3/16 steel rod that I intend to modify to be come a CB retrieval tool.Since I was able to get a coat hanger up into the aft section of keel past the CB, this 3/16 rod I'm hoping will do the trick.The keel area around CB is "tight", however I hope that gravity and mechanics is on my side!Wish me luck and I thank you all for posting the experience and knowledge the Rhodes family has!Bob & KarenORION '84-----Original Message-----From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of gstewart.gm at gmail.comSent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 10:09 PMTo: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.Robert:As a word of caution, there are three small blocks in the well that give the line some purchase when lifting the centerboard and guide the line to the tube that leads to the cockpit. It is possible that one of the blocks has broken off or the line has become jammed in it. Also, pulling on the line might only serve to make the jam worse and a block that has broken free could be jammed between the keel and the housing. The only fix for this is to remove the cap. That is a PITA for sure but not particularly difficult.I gather that the center board is in the down position. Driving the boat onto the trailer if there is a broken block in the well might do further damage. It would be prudent to make sure the keel is free to swing before driving the boat onto the trailer. If it is jammed in the down position it might be necessary to have the boat lifted out of the water with the centerboard down and placed in a cradle while to make your repair. Just a thought.GrahamGraham StewartAgile, Rodes 22, 1976Kingston Ontario-----Original Message-----From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of C. Robert LesterSent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 11:04 AMTo: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.Ric, thank you sir.Super-helpful!Re-reading the knowledge shared on the subject found on:https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fdocument.html%3Fdocuments%2Fr22boardtrunk.pdf&data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C313ae96747dd45b4a45c08da5c98fe88%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637924110592194053%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=b9wW2T1AVXdhOK7zjqRgPi5DiiA1CKrxs%2BP9EkLANxA%3D&reserved=0Attached is an attempt to show all of you what I see when I'm diving under ORION.The Red line I drew is about 2' of pennant line that sank down from the keel while I was "wiggling" the CB underwater.There has to be a way I can reach into the keel (aft), grab and pull down the bottom of the CB!I just want to be able to sail race this season and put off any needed repairs till winter!BobORION '84-----Original Message-----From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of Ric StottSent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 9:00 AMTo: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.Here is a photo of my ?86 CB pendant with the cap off. There are two turning blocks on the trailing edge of the CB and two blocks bolted to the top of the CB cover. RicDadventure-------------- next part --------------A non-text attachment was scrubbed...Name: image.jpgType: image/jpegSize: 29758 bytesDesc: not availableURL: -------------- next part --------------Sent from my iPhone> On Jul 1, 2022, at 10:06 PM, C. Robert Lester wrote:> > ?01 JULY second attempt to free my rudder from underwater.> Now I have about 2" loop of penant line hanging out the starboard of the CB under water.> No headway made pulling the line aboard, while I do the crowbar-jiggle under water.> I'm wondering on my '84R22, where is the penant line attached to my CB?> Is it the same place as on my rudder?> Where is the pivot point of the CB?> Is it the same place as on my rudder?> I know my boat was made by folks other-than-General in 1984, but Stan can you share the engineering design of my fixed Keel, CB '84R22?> Thanks in advance,> Bob & Karen> "84 ORION> > > -----Original Message-----> From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of C. Robert Lester> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2022 7:19 PM> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.> > Thanks Ric!> > I should add that the CB is stuck because I didn't raise the penant line when the trailer roller, tucked the CB into the keel when taking the boat out of the water last season.> The penant line is sandwiched I feel in between the keel & CB.> > The CB on my boat is the old style and the same shape as the rudder.> > It is nice to hear someone else "dives" under to fix the issue.> > Bob> '84 ORION> > From: ric at stottarchitecture.com> Sent: June 28, 2022 2:38 PM> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Reply-to: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.> > I moor my boat in shallow water.> During normal low tide the keel is off the bottom by a few inches.> When the tide is below normal, sometimes the keel rests on the sandy/small stone bottom.> Sometimes this results in a small stone getting wedged between the CB and the trunk.> The only way to clear it is to dive under the boat.? I have a long shank screw driver that I use to scrape the stone out.> I imagine marine growth could do the same thing and be remedied the? same way.> If your CB pendant is loose, be sure to be out of the way when the CB swings down.> I often set the pedant to about half way, then make the dive.> For the old style? center board ( don't know which you have) the small turning blocks could be bent or jammed also.> The blocks are only available in the UK.> Good Luck!> Ric> Dadventure> > Richard F. Stott, AIA, LEED AP> ric at stottarchitecture.com> O -631-283-1777> C- 516-965-3164> > > >> On Jun 27, 2022, at 8:38 PM, C. Robert Lester wrote:>> >> 26 June 2022 - An attempt to "free" my CB from below and while underwater.>> >> While anchored in 4' - 6' of beautiful, NH, Lake water...I dove underneath the boat to take a look.>> I attempted to wiggle a wire above the CB to "yank" it down out of the Keel. (this failed).>> >> I was able to fit the handle of an adjustable wrench up in between the CB and Keel. This allowed me to jiggle and the space while my wife pulled the penant from topside in the boat.>> 1.5 hrs later, the jiggling allowed a loop of penant rope to drop out of the keel, starboard side.>> Called it a night and motored to slip.>> >> I intend to return for a 2nd try, bringing with me a flat bar and crowbar for more leverage.>> Even providing a little bit more wiggle room must allow the person topside to pull more penant rope out to day light, right?>> >> Bob in Sunapee,>> '84 ORION>> >> >> -----Original Message----->> From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of jpd9668>> Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2022 8:14 AM>> To: John Carlson ; The Rhodes 22 Email List ; Melvyn Rothbard >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.>> >> Although I did not have CB problems,? the trunk was leaking and I had to replace CB gasket. I did this while on the trailer. CB is accessable once cap and gasket are removed. I remember seeing a post on replacing the CB pivot pin. Removing the CB can certainly be done but I'll bet it's a pain in the ass. TIP: When raising CB, haul to top and back off about 1-2 inches before cleating it off.Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone>> -------- Original message --------From: John Carlson via Rhodes22-list Date: 6/8/22? 11:40 PM? (GMT-05:00) To: Melvyn Rothbard Cc: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. Okay, mine was on the trailer. Long story short: I took the centerboard cap/lid/hood off to gain more direct access. However, you cannot do this on the water, since -- as I understand it -- the top of the centerboard trunk is below the waterline.--John CarlsonS/V Lillipelli (2004/2012)Lake Waco, Texas> On Jun 8, 2022, at 10:18 PM, Melvyn Rothbard wrote:> > Looks familiar to me.? My board froze at the end of last year and I have not been able to free it up> Mel Rothbard> > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > On Wed, Jun 8, 2022 at 10:15 PM, C. Robert Lester> > wrote:> In the water at the slip.> > Sent from my BlackBerry - the most secure mobile device> From: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org > Sent: June 8, 2022 9:16 PM> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org > Reply-to: john_carlson at mac.com ; rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.> > Wow, that looks so different from my boat! I have had the "stuck" problem before and am actually writing up a description of the larger project. But, let me ask, is the boat in the water or on the trailer?> > --> John Carlson> Lillipelli (2004/2012)> > > On Jun 8, 2022, at 7:05 PM, C. Robert Lester > wrote:> >> > Frogive me all, hopefully "pic" makes it through this time!> >> > Bob> >> > -----Original Message-----> > From: Rhodes22-list

>> On Behalf Of C. Robert Lester> > Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2022 7:36 PM> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List

>>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.> >> > '84 R22 with centerboard stuck on penant rope.> > Nothing fits down penant tube (don't have golf club as suggested).> > But does this look familiar to anyone?> >> > Thanks, Bob> >> > Sent from my BlackBerry - the most secure mobile device>> -------------- next part --------------A non-text attachment was scrubbed...Name: Rhodes 22 Pennant Line (ORION).pdfType: application/pdfSize: 84024 bytesDesc: Rhodes 22 Pennant Line (ORION).pdfURL: From bobfcohen at gmail.com Sun Jul 3 11:52:01 2022 From: bobfcohen at gmail.com (Robert Cohen) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2022 11:52:01 -0400 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Trailer for sale Message-ID: <765032ED-88E5-41D7-ADE6-38D223591304@gmail.com> I have a 2007 Trailmaster trailer for sale in Onekama, Michigan. Photos below. It successfully carried my Rhodes 22 from Boothbay Harbor, ME to Onekama. If interested, contact me at bobfcohen at gmail.com. Bob Cohen ?Silver Bay? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_7407.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1700665 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_7406.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1626380 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_7409.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1313356 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Sent from my iPhone From jamcando126 at yahoo.com Sun Jul 3 12:32:45 2022 From: jamcando126 at yahoo.com (John McLaughlin) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2022 16:32:45 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Trailer for sale In-Reply-To: <765032ED-88E5-41D7-ADE6-38D223591304@gmail.com> References: <765032ED-88E5-41D7-ADE6-38D223591304@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1356835738.243402.1656865965810@mail.yahoo.com> Cool.what are u asking for it? Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Sunday, July 3, 2022, 11:52 AM, Robert Cohen wrote: I have a 2007 Trailmaster trailer for sale in Onekama, Michigan. Photos below.? It successfully carried my Rhodes 22 from Boothbay Harbor, ME to Onekama.? ? ? If interested, contact me at bobfcohen at gmail.com. Bob Cohen ?Silver Bay? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_7407.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1700665 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_7406.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1626380 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_7409.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1313356 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Sent from my iPhone From jpd9668 at gmail.com Sun Jul 3 20:48:05 2022 From: jpd9668 at gmail.com (jpd9668) Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2022 20:48:05 -0400 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <62c2394d.1c69fb81.8a0a8.7989@mx.google.com> Rob,Here is what I found when I opened up my CB trunk. The FG cap was cracked and the gasket was rotten. The outfit that repaired the cap and punched the holes in the new gasket re-configured the pennant line with only two blocks. I'm including g a diagram of the re-routed pennant.Joe DempseySV RespiteDeltaville,? VASent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone -------- Original message --------From: "C. Robert Lester" Date: 7/2/22 10:48 PM (GMT-05:00) To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. Thank you all for the input.The CB is jammed in retracted (up) position.All of what you mentioned is possible as the CB blocks were not engineered (I feel) to operate in freezing conditions (hauled out ORION on 13 DEC 2021) in New Hampshire due to my first bout with Covid.Today I purchased a 3/16 steel rod that I intend to modify to be come a CB retrieval tool.Since I was able to get a coat hanger up into the aft section of keel past the CB, this 3/16 rod I'm hoping will do the trick.The keel area around CB is "tight", however I hope that gravity and mechanics is on my side!Wish me luck and I thank you all for posting the experience and knowledge the Rhodes family has!Bob & KarenORION '84-----Original Message-----From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of gstewart.gm at gmail.comSent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 10:09 PMTo: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.Robert:As a word of caution, there are three small blocks in the well that give the line some purchase when lifting the centerboard and guide the line to the tube that leads to the cockpit. It is possible that one of the blocks has broken off or the line has become jammed in it. Also, pulling on the line might only serve to make the jam worse and a block that has broken free could be jammed between the keel and the housing. The only fix for this is to remove the cap. That is a PITA for sure but not particularly difficult.I gather that the center board is in the down position. Driving the boat onto the trailer if there is a broken block in the well might do further damage. It would be prudent to make sure the keel is free to swing before driving the boat onto the trailer. If it is jammed in the down position it might be necessary to have the boat lifted out of the water with the centerboard down and placed in a cradle while to make your repair. Just a thought.GrahamGraham StewartAgile, Rodes 22, 1976Kingston Ontario-----Original Message-----From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of C. Robert LesterSent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 11:04 AMTo: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.Ric, thank you sir.Super-helpful!Re-reading the knowledge shared on the subject found on:https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fdocument.html%3Fdocuments%2Fr22boardtrunk.pdf&data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C313ae96747dd45b4a45c08da5c98fe88%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637924110592194053%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=b9wW2T1AVXdhOK7zjqRgPi5DiiA1CKrxs%2BP9EkLANxA%3D&reserved=0Attached is an attempt to show all of you what I see when I'm diving under ORION.The Red line I drew is about 2' of pennant line that sank down from the keel while I was "wiggling" the CB underwater.There has to be a way I can reach into the keel (aft), grab and pull down the bottom of the CB!I just want to be able to sail race this season and put off any needed repairs till winter!BobORION '84-----Original Message-----From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of Ric StottSent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 9:00 AMTo: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.Here is a photo of my ?86 CB pendant with the cap off. There are two turning blocks on the trailing edge of the CB and two blocks bolted to the top of the CB cover. RicDadventure-------------- next part --------------A non-text attachment was scrubbed...Name: image.jpgType: image/jpegSize: 29758 bytesDesc: not availableURL: -------------- next part --------------Sent from my iPhone> On Jul 1, 2022, at 10:06 PM, C. Robert Lester wrote:> > ?01 JULY second attempt to free my rudder from underwater.> Now I have about 2" loop of penant line hanging out the starboard of the CB under water.> No headway made pulling the line aboard, while I do the crowbar-jiggle under water.> I'm wondering on my '84R22, where is the penant line attached to my CB?> Is it the same place as on my rudder?> Where is the pivot point of the CB?> Is it the same place as on my rudder?> I know my boat was made by folks other-than-General in 1984, but Stan can you share the engineering design of my fixed Keel, CB '84R22?> Thanks in advance,> Bob & Karen> "84 ORION> > > -----Original Message-----> From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of C. Robert Lester> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2022 7:19 PM> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.> > Thanks Ric!> > I should add that the CB is stuck because I didn't raise the penant line when the trailer roller, tucked the CB into the keel when taking the boat out of the water last season.> The penant line is sandwiched I feel in between the keel & CB.> > The CB on my boat is the old style and the same shape as the rudder.> > It is nice to hear someone else "dives" under to fix the issue.> > Bob> '84 ORION> > From: ric at stottarchitecture.com> Sent: June 28, 2022 2:38 PM> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Reply-to: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.> > I moor my boat in shallow water.> During normal low tide the keel is off the bottom by a few inches.> When the tide is below normal, sometimes the keel rests on the sandy/small stone bottom.> Sometimes this results in a small stone getting wedged between the CB and the trunk.> The only way to clear it is to dive under the boat.? I have a long shank screw driver that I use to scrape the stone out.> I imagine marine growth could do the same thing and be remedied the? same way.> If your CB pendant is loose, be sure to be out of the way when the CB swings down.> I often set the pedant to about half way, then make the dive.> For the old style? center board ( don't know which you have) the small turning blocks could be bent or jammed also.> The blocks are only available in the UK.> Good Luck!> Ric> Dadventure> > Richard F. Stott, AIA, LEED AP> ric at stottarchitecture.com> O -631-283-1777> C- 516-965-3164> > > >> On Jun 27, 2022, at 8:38 PM, C. Robert Lester wrote:>> >> 26 June 2022 - An attempt to "free" my CB from below and while underwater.>> >> While anchored in 4' - 6' of beautiful, NH, Lake water...I dove underneath the boat to take a look.>> I attempted to wiggle a wire above the CB to "yank" it down out of the Keel. (this failed).>> >> I was able to fit the handle of an adjustable wrench up in between the CB and Keel. This allowed me to jiggle and the space while my wife pulled the penant from topside in the boat.>> 1.5 hrs later, the jiggling allowed a loop of penant rope to drop out of the keel, starboard side.>> Called it a night and motored to slip.>> >> I intend to return for a 2nd try, bringing with me a flat bar and crowbar for more leverage.>> Even providing a little bit more wiggle room must allow the person topside to pull more penant rope out to day light, right?>> >> Bob in Sunapee,>> '84 ORION>> >> >> -----Original Message----->> From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of jpd9668>> Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2022 8:14 AM>> To: John Carlson ; The Rhodes 22 Email List ; Melvyn Rothbard >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.>> >> Although I did not have CB problems,? the trunk was leaking and I had to replace CB gasket. I did this while on the trailer. CB is accessable once cap and gasket are removed. I remember seeing a post on replacing the CB pivot pin. Removing the CB can certainly be done but I'll bet it's a pain in the ass. TIP: When raising CB, haul to top and back off about 1-2 inches before cleating it off.Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone>> -------- Original message --------From: John Carlson via Rhodes22-list Date: 6/8/22? 11:40 PM? (GMT-05:00) To: Melvyn Rothbard Cc: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. Okay, mine was on the trailer. Long story short: I took the centerboard cap/lid/hood off to gain more direct access. However, you cannot do this on the water, since -- as I understand it -- the top of the centerboard trunk is below the waterline.--John CarlsonS/V Lillipelli (2004/2012)Lake Waco, Texas> On Jun 8, 2022, at 10:18 PM, Melvyn Rothbard wrote:> > Looks familiar to me.? My board froze at the end of last year and I have not been able to free it up> Mel Rothbard> > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > On Wed, Jun 8, 2022 at 10:15 PM, C. Robert Lester> > wrote:> In the water at the slip.> > Sent from my BlackBerry - the most secure mobile device> From: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org > Sent: June 8, 2022 9:16 PM> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org > Reply-to: john_carlson at mac.com ; rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.> > Wow, that looks so different from my boat! I have had the "stuck" problem before and am actually writing up a description of the larger project. But, let me ask, is the boat in the water or on the trailer?> > --> John Carlson> Lillipelli (2004/2012)> > > On Jun 8, 2022, at 7:05 PM, C. Robert Lester > wrote:> >> > Frogive me all, hopefully "pic" makes it through this time!> >> > Bob> >> > -----Original Message-----> > From: Rhodes22-list

>> On Behalf Of C. Robert Lester> > Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2022 7:36 PM> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List

>>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.> >> > '84 R22 with centerboard stuck on penant rope.> > Nothing fits down penant tube (don't have golf club as suggested).> > But does this look familiar to anyone?> >> > Thanks, Bob> >> > Sent from my BlackBerry - the most secure mobile device>> -------------- next part --------------A non-text attachment was scrubbed...Name: Rhodes 22 Pennant Line (ORION).pdfType: application/pdfSize: 84024 bytesDesc: Rhodes 22 Pennant Line (ORION).pdfURL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: -1537753352_IMG_20190421_1236435_631057.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 631057 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 693027118_IMG_20190421_1238085_2037186.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2037186 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: -122620096_IMG_20190401_1809064_2772312.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2772312 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1002781255_IMG_20190428_1312046_308711.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 308711 bytes Desc: not available URL: From C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu Mon Jul 4 14:24:36 2022 From: C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu (C. Robert Lester) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2022 18:24:36 +0000 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] (FIXED) Swing keel stuck. Message-ID: 04 July 2022. I pulled the CB back out of the keel, from underwater!!!! We can sail this season! I bent a 3/16" steel rod at the end with a 1" (90 degree angle). Entered the keel, aft, when at the top, turned the rod 90 degrees, to latch on top of CB. A flat bar was added to the 3/16 rod at keel and was used like I was pulling a nail from a board. When the CB budged slightly, the rod was removed and the flat bar (short end) was used both port and starboard sides of the CB to persuade the CB to give way to gravity. A few cycles of raising and lowering the pennant line proved successful. Thinking back to when I pulled the boat out last season (DEC. 13 in NH), ice was forming on the lake. Knowing the mechanics now of my '84 CB, I feel the pennant line and blocks in keel just got crushed by me motoring on to the trailer and allowing the trailer roller to do it's job and fold the CB up into the keel. I doubt ORION will be removed before it snow's at least once again this season, but I will be trailering the boat out with CB raised! The pics and knowledge shared from the group are irreplaceable. I hope my sharing will help another R22 owner in the same situation. Safe sailing, Bob & Karen ORION '84 -----Original Message----- From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of jpd9668 Sent: Sunday, July 3, 2022 8:48 PM To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. Rob,Here is what I found when I opened up my CB trunk. The FG cap was cracked and the gasket was rotten. The outfit that repaired the cap and punched the holes in the new gasket re-configured the pennant line with only two blocks. I'm including g a diagram of the re-routed pennant.Joe DempseySV RespiteDeltaville,? VASent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone -------- Original message --------From: "C. Robert Lester" Date: 7/2/22 10:48 PM (GMT-05:00) To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. Thank you all for the input.The CB is jammed in retracted (up) position.All of what you mentioned is possible as the CB blocks were not engineered (I feel) to operate in freezing conditions (hauled out ORION on 13 DEC 2021) in New Hampshire due to my first bout with Covid.Today I purchased a 3/16 steel rod that I intend to modify to be come a CB retrieval tool.Since I was able to get a coat hanger up into the aft section of keel past the CB, this 3/16 rod I'm hoping will do the trick.The keel area around CB is "tight", however I hope that gravity and mechanics is on my side!Wish me luck and I thank you all for posting the experience and knowledge the Rhodes family has!Bob & KarenORION '84-----Original Message-----From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of gstewart.gm at gmail.comSent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 10:09 PMTo: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.Robert:As a word of caution, there are three small blocks in the well that give the line some purchase when lifting the centerboard and guide the line to the tube that leads to the cockpit. It is possible that one of the blocks has broken off or the line has become jammed in it. Also, pulling on the line might only serve to make the jam worse and a block that has broken free could be jammed between the keel and the housing. The only fix for this is to remove the cap. That is a PITA for sure but not particularly difficult.I gather that the center board is in the down position. Driving the boat onto the trailer if there is a broken block in the well might do further damage. It would be prudent to make sure the keel is free to swing before driving the boat onto the trailer. If it is jammed in the down position it might be necessary to have the boat lifted out of the water with the centerboard down and placed in a cradle while to make your repair. Just a thought.GrahamGraham StewartAgile, Rodes 22, 1976Kingston Ontario-----Original Message-----From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of C. Robert LesterSent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 11:04 AMTo: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.Ric, thank you sir.Super-helpful!Re-reading the knowledge shared on the subject found on:https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fdocument.html%3Fdocuments%2Fr22boardtrunk.pdf&data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7Ca7011f8798e7450a61d308da5d5730a1%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637924926752488638%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ScVlXOaYg%2Fy1YlCXnnpCFGvEd5yNYIKHHyV%2FApahS4w%3D&reserved=0 is an attempt to show all of you what I see when I'm diving under ORION.The Red line I drew is about 2' of pennant line that sank down from the keel while I was "wiggling" the CB underwater.There has to be a way I can reach into the keel (aft), grab and pull down the bottom of the CB!I just want to be able to sail race this season and put off any needed repairs till winter!BobORION '84-----Original Message-----From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of Ric StottSent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 9:00 AMTo: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.Here is a photo of my ?86 CB pendant with the cap off. There are two turning blocks on the trailing edge of the CB and two blocks bolted to the top of the CB cover. RicDadventure-------------- next part --------------A non-text attachment was scrubbed...Name: image.jpgType: image/jpegSize: 29758 bytesDesc: not availableURL: -------------- next part --------------Sent from my iPhone> On Jul 1, 2022, at 10:06 PM, C. Robert Lester wrote:> > ?01 JULY second attempt to free my rudder from underwater.> Now I have about 2" loop of penant line hanging out the starboard of the CB under water.> No headway made pulling the line aboard, while I do the crowbar-jiggle under water.> I'm wondering on my '84R22, where is the penant line attached to my CB?> Is it the same place as on my rudder?> Where is the pivot point of the CB?> Is it the same place as on my rudder?> I know my boat was made by folks other-than-General in 1984, but Stan can you share the engineering design of my fixed Keel, CB '84R22?> Thanks in advance,> Bob & Karen> "84 ORION> > > -----Original Message-----> From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of C. Robert Lester> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2022 7:19 PM> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.> > Thanks Ric!> > I should add that the CB is stuck because I didn't raise the penant line when the trailer roller, tucked the CB into the keel when taking the boat out of the water last season.> The penant line is sandwiched I feel in between the keel & CB.> > The CB on my boat is the old style and the same shape as the rudder.> > It is nice to hear someone else "dives" under to fix the issue.> > Bob> '84 ORION> > From: ric at stottarchitecture.com> Sent: June 28, 2022 2:38 PM> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Reply-to: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.> > I moor my boat in shallow water.> During normal low tide the keel is off the bottom by a few inches.> When the tide is below normal, sometimes the keel rests on the sandy/small stone bottom.> Sometimes this results in a small stone getting wedged between the CB and the trunk.> The only way to clear it is to dive under the boat.? I have a long shank screw driver that I use to scrape the stone out.> I imagine marine growth could do the same thing and be remedied the? same way.> If your CB pendant is loose, be sure to be out of the way when the CB swings down.> I often set the pedant to about half way, then make the dive.> For the old style? center board ( don't know which you have) the small turning blocks could be bent or jammed also.> The blocks are only available in the UK.> Good Luck!> Ric> Dadventure> > Richard F. Stott, AIA, LEED AP> ric at stottarchitecture.com> O -631-283-1777> C- 516-965-3164> > > >> On Jun 27, 2022, at 8:38 PM, C. Robert Lester wrote:>> >> 26 June 2022 - An attempt to "free" my CB from below and while underwater.>> >> While anchored in 4' - 6' of beautiful, NH, Lake water...I dove underneath the boat to take a look.>> I attempted to wiggle a wire above the CB to "yank" it down out of the Keel. (this failed).>> >> I was able to fit the handle of an adjustable wrench up in between the CB and Keel. This allowed me to jiggle and the space while my wife pulled the penant from topside in the boat.>> 1.5 hrs later, the jiggling allowed a loop of penant rope to drop out of the keel, starboard side.>> Called it a night and motored to slip.>> >> I intend to return for a 2nd try, bringing with me a flat bar and crowbar for more leverage.>> Even providing a little bit more wiggle room must allow the person topside to pull more penant rope out to day light, right?>> >> Bob in Sunapee,>> '84 ORION>> >> >> -----Original Message----->> From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of jpd9668>> Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2022 8:14 AM>> To: John Carlson ; The Rhodes 22 Email List ; Melvyn Rothbard >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.>> >> Although I did not have CB problems,? the trunk was leaking and I had to replace CB gasket. I did this while on the trailer. CB is accessable once cap and gasket are removed. I remember seeing a post on replacing the CB pivot pin. Removing the CB can certainly be done but I'll bet it's a pain in the ass. TIP: When raising CB, haul to top and back off about 1-2 inches before cleating it off.Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone>> -------- Original message --------From: John Carlson via Rhodes22-list Date: 6/8/22? 11:40 PM? (GMT-05:00) To: Melvyn Rothbard Cc: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. Okay, mine was on the trailer. Long story short: I took the centerboard cap/lid/hood off to gain more direct access. However, you cannot do this on the water, since -- as I understand it -- the top of the centerboard trunk is below the waterline.--John CarlsonS/V Lillipelli (2004/2012)Lake Waco, Texas> On Jun 8, 2022, at 10:18 PM, Melvyn Rothbard wrote:> > Looks familiar to me.? My board froze at the end of last year and I have not been able to free it up> Mel Rothbard> > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > On Wed, Jun 8, 2022 at 10:15 PM, C. Robert Lester> > wrote:> In the water at the slip.> > Sent from my BlackBerry - the most secure mobile device> From: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org > Sent: June 8, 2022 9:16 PM> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org > Reply-to: john_carlson at mac.com ; rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.> > Wow, that looks so different from my boat! I have had the "stuck" problem before and am actually writing up a description of the larger project. But, let me ask, is the boat in the water or on the trailer?> > --> John Carlson> Lillipelli (2004/2012)> > > On Jun 8, 2022, at 7:05 PM, C. Robert Lester > wrote:> >> > Frogive me all, hopefully "pic" makes it through this time!> >> > Bob> >> > -----Original Message-----> > From: Rhodes22-list

>> On Behalf Of C. Robert Lester> > Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2022 7:36 PM> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List

>>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.> >> > '84 R22 with centerboard stuck on penant rope.> > Nothing fits down penant tube (don't have golf club as suggested).> > But does this look familiar to anyone?> >> > Thanks, Bob> >> > Sent from my BlackBerry - the most secure mobile device>> -------------- next part --------------A non-text attachment was scrubbed...Name: Rhodes 22 Pennant Line (ORION).pdfType: application/pdfSize: 84024 bytesDesc: Rhodes 22 Pennant Line (ORION).pdfURL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: -1537753352_IMG_20190421_1236435_631057.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 631057 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 693027118_IMG_20190421_1238085_2037186.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2037186 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: -122620096_IMG_20190401_1809064_2772312.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2772312 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1002781255_IMG_20190428_1312046_308711.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 308711 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jpd9668 at gmail.com Mon Jul 4 16:34:10 2022 From: jpd9668 at gmail.com (jpd9668) Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2022 16:34:10 -0400 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] (FIXED) Swing keel stuck. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <62c34ecf.1c69fb81.106a4.d0dc@mx.google.com> I was given a tip once,? which? may or may not be good advice, but I've adopted it. After hauling CB up, back off about 2 inches. That way you'll always be able to establish movement in case it won't lower.Joe DempseySV RespiteDeltaville, VASent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone -------- Original message --------From: "C. Robert Lester" Date: 7/4/22 2:24 PM (GMT-05:00) To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] (FIXED) Swing keel stuck. 04 July 2022.I pulled the CB back out of the keel, from underwater!!!!We can sail this season!I bent a 3/16" steel rod at the end with a 1" (90 degree angle).Entered the keel, aft, when at the top, turned the rod 90 degrees, to latch on top of CB.A flat bar was added to the 3/16 rod at keel and was used like I was pulling a nail from a board.When the CB budged slightly, the rod was removed and the flat bar (short end) was used both port and starboard sides of the CB to persuade the CB to give way to gravity.A few cycles of raising and lowering the pennant line proved successful.Thinking back to when I pulled the boat out last season (DEC. 13 in NH), ice was forming on the lake.Knowing the mechanics now of my '84 CB, I feel the pennant line and blocks in keel just got crushed by me motoring on to the trailer and allowing the trailer roller to do it's job and fold the CB up into the keel.I doubt ORION will be removed before it snow's at least once again this season, but I will be trailering the boat out with CB raised!The pics and knowledge shared from the group are irreplaceable.I hope my sharing will help another R22 owner in the same situation.Safe sailing,Bob & KarenORION '84-----Original Message-----From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of jpd9668Sent: Sunday, July 3, 2022 8:48 PMTo: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.Rob,Here is what I found when I opened up my CB trunk. The FG cap was cracked and the gasket was rotten. The outfit that repaired the cap and punched the holes in the new gasket re-configured the pennant line with only two blocks. I'm including g a diagram of the re-routed pennant.Joe DempseySV RespiteDeltaville,? VASent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone-------- Original message --------From: "C. Robert Lester" Date: 7/2/22? 10:48 PM? (GMT-05:00) To: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. Thank you all for the input.The CB is jammed in retracted (up) position.All of what you mentioned is possible as the CB blocks were not engineered (I feel) to operate in freezing conditions (hauled out ORION on 13 DEC 2021) in New Hampshire due to my first bout with Covid.Today I purchased a 3/16 steel rod that I intend to modify to be come a CB retrieval tool.Since I was able to get a coat hanger up into the aft section of keel past the CB, this 3/16 rod I'm hoping will do the trick.The keel area around CB is "tight", however I hope that gravity and mechanics is on my side!Wish me luck and I thank you all for posting the experience and knowledge the Rhodes family has!Bob & KarenORION '84-----Original Message-----From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of gstewart.gm at gmail.comSent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 10:09 PMTo: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.Robert:As a word of caution, there are three small blocks in the well that give the line some purchase when lifting the centerboard and guide the line to the tube that leads to the cockpit. It is possible that one of the blocks has broken off or the line has become jammed in it. Also, pulling on the line might only serve to make the jam worse and a block that has broken free could be jammed between the keel and the housing. The only fix for this is to remove the cap. That is a PITA for sure but not particularly difficult.I gather that the center board is in the down position. Driving the boat onto the trailer if there is a broken block in the well might do further damage. It would be prudent to make sure the keel is free to swing before driving the boat onto the trailer. If it is jammed in the down position it might be necessary to have the boat lifted out of the water with the centerboard down and placed in a cradle while to make your repair. Just a thought.GrahamGraham StewartAgile, Rodes 22, 1976Kingston Ontario-----Original Message-----From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of C. Robert LesterSent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 11:04 AMTo: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.Ric, thank you sir.Super-helpful!Re-reading the knowledge shared on the subject found on:https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fdocument.html%3Fdocuments%2Fr22boardtrunk.pdf&data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7Ca7011f8798e7450a61d308da5d5730a1%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637924926752488638%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ScVlXOaYg%2Fy1YlCXnnpCFGvEd5yNYIKHHyV%2FApahS4w%3D&reserved=0 is an attempt to show all of you what I see when I'm diving under ORION.The Red line I drew is about 2' of pennant line that sank down from the keel while I was "wiggling" the CB underwater.There has to be a way I can reach into the keel (aft), grab and pull down the bottom of the CB!I just want to be able to sail race this season and put off any needed repairs till winter!BobORION '84-----Original Message-----From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of Ric StottSent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 9:00 AMTo: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.Here is a photo of my ?86 CB pendant with the cap off. There are two turning blocks on the trailing edge of the CB and two blocks bolted to the top of the CB cover. RicDadventure-------------- next part --------------A non-text attachment was scrubbed...Name: image.jpgType: image/jpegSize: 29758 bytesDesc: not availableURL: -------------- next part --------------Sent from my iPhone> On Jul 1, 2022, at 10:06 PM, C. Robert Lester wrote:> > ?01 JULY second attempt to free my rudder from underwater.> Now I have about 2" loop of penant line hanging out the starboard of the CB under water.> No headway made pulling the line aboard, while I do the crowbar-jiggle under water.> I'm wondering on my '84R22, where is the penant line attached to my CB?> Is it the same place as on my rudder?> Where is the pivot point of the CB?> Is it the same place as on my rudder?> I know my boat was made by folks other-than-General in 1984, but Stan can you share the engineering design of my fixed Keel, CB '84R22?> Thanks in advance,> Bob & Karen> "84 ORION> > > -----Original Message-----> From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of C. Robert Lester> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2022 7:19 PM> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.> > Thanks Ric!> > I should add that the CB is stuck because I didn't raise the penant line when the trailer roller, tucked the CB into the keel when taking the boat out of the water last season.> The penant line is sandwiched I feel in between the keel & CB.> > The CB on my boat is the old style and the same shape as the rudder.> > It is nice to hear someone else "dives" under to fix the issue.> > Bob> '84 ORION> > From: ric at stottarchitecture.com> Sent: June 28, 2022 2:38 PM> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Reply-to: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.> > I moor my boat in shallow water.> During normal low tide the keel is off the bottom by a few inches.> When the tide is below normal, sometimes the keel rests on the sandy/small stone bottom.> Sometimes this results in a small stone getting wedged between the CB and the trunk.> The only way to clear it is to dive under the boat.? I have a long shank screw driver that I use to scrape the stone out.> I imagine marine growth could do the same thing and be remedied the? same way.> If your CB pendant is loose, be sure to be out of the way when the CB swings down.> I often set the pedant to about half way, then make the dive.> For the old style? center board ( don't know which you have) the small turning blocks could be bent or jammed also.> The blocks are only available in the UK.> Good Luck!> Ric> Dadventure> > Richard F. Stott, AIA, LEED AP> ric at stottarchitecture.com> O -631-283-1777> C- 516-965-3164> > > >> On Jun 27, 2022, at 8:38 PM, C. Robert Lester wrote:>> >> 26 June 2022 - An attempt to "free" my CB from below and while underwater.>> >> While anchored in 4' - 6' of beautiful, NH, Lake water...I dove underneath the boat to take a look.>> I attempted to wiggle a wire above the CB to "yank" it down out of the Keel. (this failed).>> >> I was able to fit the handle of an adjustable wrench up in between the CB and Keel. This allowed me to jiggle and the space while my wife pulled the penant from topside in the boat.>> 1.5 hrs later, the jiggling allowed a loop of penant rope to drop out of the keel, starboard side.>> Called it a night and motored to slip.>> >> I intend to return for a 2nd try, bringing with me a flat bar and crowbar for more leverage.>> Even providing a little bit more wiggle room must allow the person topside to pull more penant rope out to day light, right?>> >> Bob in Sunapee,>> '84 ORION>> >> >> -----Original Message----->> From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of jpd9668>> Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2022 8:14 AM>> To: John Carlson ; The Rhodes 22 Email List ; Melvyn Rothbard >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.>> >> Although I did not have CB problems,? the trunk was leaking and I had to replace CB gasket. I did this while on the trailer. CB is accessable once cap and gasket are removed. I remember seeing a post on replacing the CB pivot pin. Removing the CB can certainly be done but I'll bet it's a pain in the ass. TIP: When raising CB, haul to top and back off about 1-2 inches before cleating it off.Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone>> -------- Original message --------From: John Carlson via Rhodes22-list Date: 6/8/22? 11:40 PM? (GMT-05:00) To: Melvyn Rothbard Cc: The Rhodes 22 Email List Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. Okay, mine was on the trailer. Long story short: I took the centerboard cap/lid/hood off to gain more direct access. However, you cannot do this on the water, since -- as I understand it -- the top of the centerboard trunk is below the waterline.--John CarlsonS/V Lillipelli (2004/2012)Lake Waco, Texas> On Jun 8, 2022, at 10:18 PM, Melvyn Rothbard wrote:> > Looks familiar to me.? My board froze at the end of last year and I have not been able to free it up> Mel Rothbard> > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > On Wed, Jun 8, 2022 at 10:15 PM, C. Robert Lester> > wrote:> In the water at the slip.> > Sent from my BlackBerry - the most secure mobile device> From: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org