[Rhodes22-list] Balanced Helm

Roger Pihlaja rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org
Tue, 27 Aug 2002 18:15:41 -0400


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Todd,

No, take the shortest dimension to allow for stretch as the sail ages.

Roger
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: David Walker=20
  To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
  Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 5:05 PM
  Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Balanced Helm


  Todd,

  yes, halfway sounds like a good position.
    ----- Original Message -----=20
    From: Toad the Wet Sprocket=20
    To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
    Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 3:45 PM
    Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Balanced Helm


    Dave,

         Thanks for the clarification.  One more question comes up =
though.  When measuring for new sails... I didn't get any with the =
boat....when measuring the dimension for the luff lenght, where do I =
measure to?  the boom at a center point between ist lowest possible =
position and the opening in the sail track?  I have got measurement from =
a few people and all are about the same plus or minus a couple of =
inches.   When looking for a used sail I was looking in a luff range =
between these two extremes.



    Please respond to sprocket80@hotmail.com

    From: "David Walker"=20
    Reply-To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
    To:=20
    Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Balanced Helm=20
    Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 13:21:42 -0400=20
    Todd,=20
    1. A standard main goes where you put it in general. You raise it on =
the halyard, typically as far as it will go, then pull the goose neck =
down with the downhaul. Within limits if you don't raise it all the way =
you can pull the gooseneck lower. Typically you would reef the foot of =
the sail, leaving the gooseneck where it is. On the IMF the whole sail =
assembly (furling tube and boom) can slide up or down the mast. There =
are two pin positions (one hi for clearance of the pop top and heads in =
the cockpit, the other lower).=20
    2. The leading edge of the rudder is forward of the pivot line when =
it is fully down. This makes the rudder a "balanced" rudder, as water =
pressure on the leading edge helps you with steering effort.=20
    BTW, lee and weather helm are easy to remember. If you let the =
tiller go and the boat heads into the wind, you have weather helm. If =
you let go and the boat turns away from the wind, you have lee helm. It =
has no bearing on where you are sitting.=20
    Dave Walker=20
    ----- Original Message -----=20
    From: Toad the Wet Sprocket=20
    To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
    Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 9:12 AM=20
    Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Balanced Helm=20
    David, or Anyone,=20
    Again, the newbie has questions. Two questions arose after reading =
your letter.=20
    1. My boat is an older model and the goose neck is free =
floating....and has no "position". What method of positioning the boom =
do newer boats have?=20
    2. This question is more important because I was going to be making =
a new rudder. The previous owner had made the one on there now. The =
rudder actually pivots down so far that it goes slightly past vertical =
and starts to angle foreward. Is this by design?=20
    Todd=20
    Please respond to sprocket80@hotmail.com=20
    From: "David Walker"=20
    Reply-To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
    To:=20
    Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Balanced Helm=20
    Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 08:16:41 -0400=20
    Joe, the weather helm you are experiencing is most likely due to the =

    heeling. When the hull heels its geomtry relative to the water =
changes=20
    inducing whether helm. The is acutally a good thing, as when the rig =
gets=20
    overpowered, the boat will autmatically tend to head up and luff the =
sails.=20
    On my boat with moderate wind I can sail the 175 all the way out =
(full main=20
    of course) and if I can keep her from heeling too much she is well =
balanced.=20
    The amount of wind you can do this in will depend on your "movable=20
    balllast". As you reef the jib, you should match with reelfing the =
main.=20
    Many on the list will reccomend lowering the boom to the lower =
position as a=20
    first reef. This will lower the COE of the main, but as the jib is =
2x the=20
    size of the main, its benefit is small.=20
    Obvious, but also check to make sure the rudder is all the way down =
(leading=20
    edge actually ahead of the pivot line).=20
    Dave Walker=20
    SV Windswept=20
    ----- Original Message -----=20
    From: "Ware, Joseph W."=20
    To: "List Rhodes (E-mail)"=20
    Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 3:55 PM=20
    Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Balanced Helm=20
    > I have an IMF and 175 Genny. Under about 100% Genny the helm is =
balanced.=20
    > When the Genny is pulled all the way out, and healing, there is a =
good=20
    > amount of weather helm. I have to push the tiller hard to keep her =
going=20
    > straight. Is normal, or is my rig set up wrong?=20
    >=20
    > Joe=20
    > S/V Whisper=20
    >=20
    >=20
    > =
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
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    >=20
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    Subscribers, send mail to this address Rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
    To change your options or unsubscribe from the list click on this =
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    FAQ pages at http://www.geocities.com/blew_skies/topics.html=20
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Todd,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>No, take the shortest dimension to =
allow for=20
stretch as the sail ages.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Roger</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Ddavid.walker5@attbi.com =
href=3D"mailto:david.walker5@attbi.com">David=20
  Walker</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Drhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org">rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org</A>=
 </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, August 27, 2002 =
5:05=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Rhodes22-list] =
Balanced=20
  Helm</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Todd,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>yes, halfway sounds like a good=20
  position.</FONT></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
    <A title=3Dsprocket80@hotmail.com =
href=3D"mailto:sprocket80@hotmail.com">Toad=20
    the Wet Sprocket</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Drhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org">rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org</A>=
=20
    </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, August 27, =
2002 3:45=20
    PM</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Rhodes22-list] =
Balanced=20
    Helm</DIV>
    <DIV><BR></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV>
    <P>Dave,</P>
    <P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Thanks for the clarification.&nbsp; One =
more=20
    question comes up though.&nbsp; When measuring for new sails... I =
didn't get=20
    any with the boat....when measuring the dimension for the luff =
lenght, where=20
    do I measure to?&nbsp; the boom at a center point between ist lowest =

    possible position and the opening in the sail track?&nbsp; I have =
got=20
    measurement from a few people and all are about the same plus or =
minus a=20
    couple of inches.&nbsp;&nbsp; When looking for a used sail I was =
looking in=20
    a luff range between these two extremes.<BR><BR></P></DIV>
    <DIV>Please respond to <A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:sprocket80@hotmail.com">sprocket80@hotmail.com</A></DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>From: "David Walker" <DAVID.WALKER5@ATTBI.COM>
    <DIV></DIV>Reply-To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
    <DIV></DIV>To: <RHODES22-LIST@RHODES22.ORG>
    <DIV></DIV>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Balanced Helm=20
    <DIV></DIV>Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 13:21:42 -0400=20
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>Todd,=20
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>1. A standard main goes where you put it in general. You =
raise it=20
    on the halyard, typically as far as it will go, then pull the goose =
neck=20
    down with the downhaul. Within limits if you don't raise it all the =
way you=20
    can pull the gooseneck lower. Typically you would reef the foot of =
the sail,=20
    leaving the gooseneck where it is. On the IMF the whole sail =
assembly=20
    (furling tube and boom) can slide up or down the mast. There are two =
pin=20
    positions (one hi for clearance of the pop top and heads in the =
cockpit, the=20
    other lower).=20
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>2. The leading edge of the rudder is forward of the pivot =
line=20
    when it is fully down. This makes the rudder a "balanced" rudder, as =
water=20
    pressure on the leading edge helps you with steering effort.=20
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>BTW, lee and weather helm are easy to remember. If you =
let the=20
    tiller go and the boat heads into the wind, you have weather helm. =
If you=20
    let go and the boat turns away from the wind, you have lee helm. It =
has no=20
    bearing on where you are sitting.=20
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>Dave Walker=20
    <DIV></DIV>----- Original Message -----=20
    <DIV></DIV>From: Toad the Wet Sprocket=20
    <DIV></DIV>To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
    <DIV></DIV>Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 9:12 AM=20
    <DIV></DIV>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Balanced Helm=20
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>David, or Anyone,=20
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>Again, the newbie has questions. Two questions arose =
after=20
    reading your letter.=20
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>1. My boat is an older model and the goose neck is free=20
    floating....and has no "position". What method of positioning the =
boom do=20
    newer boats have?=20
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>2. This question is more important because I was going to =
be=20
    making a new rudder. The previous owner had made the one on there =
now. The=20
    rudder actually pivots down so far that it goes slightly past =
vertical and=20
    starts to angle foreward. Is this by design?=20
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>Todd=20
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>Please respond to sprocket80@hotmail.com=20
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>From: "David Walker"=20
    <DIV></DIV>Reply-To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
    <DIV></DIV>To:=20
    <DIV></DIV>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Balanced Helm=20
    <DIV></DIV>Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 08:16:41 -0400=20
    <DIV></DIV>Joe, the weather helm you are experiencing is most likely =
due to=20
    the=20
    <DIV></DIV>heeling. When the hull heels its geomtry relative to the =
water=20
    changes=20
    <DIV></DIV>inducing whether helm. The is acutally a good thing, as =
when the=20
    rig gets=20
    <DIV></DIV>overpowered, the boat will autmatically tend to head up =
and luff=20
    the sails.=20
    <DIV></DIV>On my boat with moderate wind I can sail the 175 all the =
way out=20
    (full main=20
    <DIV></DIV>of course) and if I can keep her from heeling too much =
she is=20
    well balanced.=20
    <DIV></DIV>The amount of wind you can do this in will depend on your =

    "movable=20
    <DIV></DIV>balllast". As you reef the jib, you should match with =
reelfing=20
    the main.=20
    <DIV></DIV>Many on the list will reccomend lowering the boom to the =
lower=20
    position as a=20
    <DIV></DIV>first reef. This will lower the COE of the main, but as =
the jib=20
    is 2x the=20
    <DIV></DIV>size of the main, its benefit is small.=20
    <DIV></DIV>Obvious, but also check to make sure the rudder is all =
the way=20
    down (leading=20
    <DIV></DIV>edge actually ahead of the pivot line).=20
    <DIV></DIV>Dave Walker=20
    <DIV></DIV>SV Windswept=20
    <DIV></DIV>----- Original Message -----=20
    <DIV></DIV>From: "Ware, Joseph W."=20
    <DIV></DIV>To: "List Rhodes (E-mail)"=20
    <DIV></DIV>Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 3:55 PM=20
    <DIV></DIV>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Balanced Helm=20
    <DIV></DIV>&gt; I have an IMF and 175 Genny. Under about 100% Genny =
the helm=20
    is balanced.=20
    <DIV></DIV>&gt; When the Genny is pulled all the way out, and =
healing, there=20
    is a good=20
    <DIV></DIV>&gt; amount of weather helm. I have to push the tiller =
hard to=20
    keep her going=20
    <DIV></DIV>&gt; straight. Is normal, or is my rig set up wrong?=20
    <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
    <DIV></DIV>&gt; Joe=20
    <DIV></DIV>&gt; S/V Whisper=20
    <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
    <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
    <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
    =
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-=20
    <DIV></DIV>----=20
    <DIV></DIV>&gt; Notice: This e-mail message, together with any =
attachments,=20
    contains=20
    <DIV></DIV>information of Merck &amp; Co., Inc. (Whitehouse Station, =
New=20
    Jersey, USA) that=20
    <DIV></DIV>may be confidential, proprietary copyrighted and/or =
legally=20
    privileged, and=20
    <DIV></DIV>is intended solely for the use of the individual or =
entity named=20
    in this=20
    <DIV></DIV>message. If you are not the intended recipient, and have =
received=20
    this=20
    <DIV></DIV>message in error, please immediately return this by =
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