[Rhodes22-list] Toad's WHOLE story as if anybody cares
Rik Sandberg
rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org
Tue, 03 Sep 2002 22:26:45 -0500
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Who'd a thunk it?????
Complaint letter generator wars!!!!
You saw it here first folks :-) :-)
Rik
At 11:03 PM 9/3/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>All,
>I take exception to a few key aspects of MJM's effusions. By way of
>introduction, let me just say that MJM is the type of person who would
>shoot you just to see if his gun worked. I know you're wondering why I
>just wrote that. I'll explain shortly, but first, I should state that an
>armed revolt against MJM is morally justified. However, I feel that it is
>not yet strategically justified. His argument is hopelessly flawed and
>entirely circuitous. If I recall correctly, MJM coins "polysyllabic
>neologisms" to make his wisecracks sound like they're actually important.
>In fact, his treatises are filled to the brim with words that have yet to
>appear in any accepted dictionary. His beliefs (as I would certainly not
>call them logically reasoned arguments) are an icon for the deterioration
>of the list, for its slow slide into corruption, malaise, and filth. I'm
>not writing this letter for your entertainment. I'm not even writing it
>for your education. I'm writi ng it for your very survival.
>The first lies that MJM told us were relatively benign. Still, they have
>been progressing. And they will continue to progress until there is no
>more truth; his lies will grow until they blot out the sun. He must think
>that the world has no memory, but given the way things are these days, we
>must remember that he says that his doctrines are a breath of fresh air
>amid our modern culture's toxic cloud of chaos. That's his unvarying
>story, and it's a lie: an extremely imprudent and disorderly lie.
>Unfortunately, it's a lie that is accepted unquestioningly, uncritically,
>by his subalterns. Who is MJM to decide what is morally acceptable for us
>and what is not?
>Regardless of what he seems to think, on that basis, I should, at this
>point, offer true constructive criticism -- listening to the whole issue,
>recognizing the problems, recognizing what is being done right, and
>getting involved to help remedy the problem. His plans for the future of
>the list reflect an era in which cultures or attitudes different from
>one's own were dealt with through violence and mistrust. Counselors might
>believe that MJM makes a virtue of irremediable fault. Sociologists might
>point out that his accusations have reached a depth of degeneracy that was
>virtually unknown in the past. I agree with the above assessments, but
>MJM's smear tactics are built on lies, and they depend on make-believe for
>their continuation.
>It takes more than a mass of venal imbeciles to take a strong position on
>his ideals, (and you should be suspicious whenever you hear such tell-tale
>words and phrases as "mental masturbation", "sufficient evidence",
>"mudslinging fugitives", "oppressive measures", and "we must struggle to
>avoid drowning in the raging torrent..."). It takes a great many
>thoughtful and semi-thoughtful people who are willing to draw a picture of
>what we conceive of under the word "mediterraneanization". To say
>otherwise would be unstable. Although MJM won't admit it, I consider his
>methods of interpretation antithetical to my principles as a person
>concerned for the good of all. Now that that's cleared up, I'll continue
>with what I was saying before, that it has been brought to my attention
>that we can't afford to be so ridiculous in such difficult times. While
>this is true, he is capable of only two things, namely whining and
>underhanded tricks. Not only have unreasonable worrywarts d ecided to
>glorify his memoranda by dressing it up as moral and righteous
>prerogatives, but his criticisms are being debated as though they were
>actually reasonable. Once one begins thinking about free speech, about
>wrongheaded, headlong rubes who use ostracism and public opinion to
>prevent the airing of views contrary to their own obtrusive beliefs, one
>realizes that MJM is totally dour. We all are, to some extent, but he sets
>the curve. The real question here is not, "How can he spawn delusions of
>hedonism's resplendence and then turn around and shed tears for those who
>got hurt as a result?". The real question is rather, "Why does he always
>have to be such a party pooper?" Well, I'm sure MJM would rather break up
>society's solidarity and cohesiveness than answer that particular question.
>To restate the obvious: He uses this forum to prove that the readers of
>this list are his pawns to be used and manipulated. Really? Polls would
>show that MJM not only lies, but he brags about his lying to his stooges.
>As someone who enjoys brandishing words like "hyperphosphorescence" and
>"labyrinthibranchiate" as a smoke screen to hide his philippics' inherent
>paradoxes, he must undoubtedly be at a loss when someone presents a
>logical counterargument to his nettlesome, obdurate theories. On the
>surface, it would seem merely that MJM's canards make many mainstream
>antagonists nervous. But the truth is that even if one is opposed to
>anti-humanist commercialism (and I am), then surely, if I may be so bold,
>I am thoroughly shocked and angered by MJM's chauvinistic improprieties.
>Such shameful conduct should never be repeated. To summarize my views: The
>intent of this letter is certainly not hatred, but a probing look into an
>obviously significant issue.
>
>
>
>Please respond to <mailto:sprocket80@hotmail.com>sprocket80@hotmail.com
>
>From: "Michael Meltzer"
>Reply-To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org
>To:
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Toad's WHOLE story as if anybody cares
>Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 19:22:32 -0400
>what up you sitting their stewing, about this point I write a post
>explaining some facts of life on this list, 9 out of 10 time that is the
>being of the end for the member it is directed to. I do not have time for
>that now. Sorry people(It has great entertanment value). In the mean time
>please use this as an expample of how to write a complant, we do have to
>mantain standards, please make sure that the reply is as long
>MJM
>My duty to you, dear reader, constrains me to the disagreeable and almost
>painful task of giving you a significant amount of information that you
>may be unwilling to accept. I urge you to read the text that follows
>carefully, keeping an open mind, from the beginning to the end, and
>without skipping around. I further recommend that you take breaks, as many
>of the facts presented will take time to digest. The world is suffering
>from Mr. Todd Toad Sprocket's lack of faith in a transcendental truth.
>That shouldn't surprise you when you consider that he gives new meaning to
>the word "insipid". Sad, but true. And it'll only get worse if he finds a
>way to oppose the visceral views of 98 percent of the nation's citizens.
>However, Todd coins polysyllabic neologisms to make his words sound like
>they're actually important. In fact, his treatises are filled to the brim
>with words that have yet to appear in any accepted dictionary.
>Now, perhaps you think I'm imagining things. Perhaps you think that he
>really isn't going to purge the land of every non-dastardly person, gene,
>idea, and influence. Well, I wish it were just my imagination. But you
>know, by refusing to act, by refusing to investigate his dishonest
>principles, ideals, and objectives, we are giving him the power to gum up
>what were once great ideas. While Todd puts on a good dog and pony show,
>if Fate desired that he make a correct application of what he had read
>about negativism, it would have to indicate title and page number, since
>the vexatious, semi-intelligible fool would otherwise never in all his
>life find the correct place. But since Fate does not do this, he is not as
>rapacious or discourteous as you might think. He's more so. At the risk of
>repeating myself, I must reiterate that if we let him take advantage of
>human fallibility to repeat the mistakes of the past, all we'll have to
>look forward to in the future is a publi c realm devoid of culture and a
>narrow and routinized professional life untouched by the highest creations
>of civilization.
>For future reference, if I didn't think Todd would enact new laws forcing
>anyone who's not one of his apostles to live in an environment that can,
>at best, be described as contemptuously tolerant, I wouldn't say that some
>people say that that isn't sufficient evidence to prove that he is
>secretly scheming to turn thugs loose against us good citizens. And I must
>agree; one needs much more evidence than that. But the evidence is there,
>for anyone who isn't afraid to look at it. Just look at the way that far
>too many people tolerate his utterances as long as they're presented in
>small, seemingly harmless doses. What these people fail to realize,
>however, is that when Todd tells us that the Eleventh Commandment is,
>"Thou shalt help mudslinging fugitives evade capture by the authorities",
>he somehow fails to mention that I take seriously the view that his
>apologists are easily manipulated. He fails to mention that except for a
>few bright spots, his teachings are totally birdbrained. And he fails to
>mention that I'm not a psychiatrist. Sometimes, though, I wish I were, so
>that I could better understand what makes people like him want to maintain
>social control by eliminating rights and freedoms. To put it crudely,
>Todd's lackeys compress Todd's memoranda into brief, highly reductive,
>definitive-sounding phrases, easily memorized and easily expressed. Now
>that's a rather crude and simplistic statement, and, in many cases, it may
>not even be literally true. But there is a sense in which it is generally
>true, a sense in which it sincerely expresses how Todd's sound bites prove
>that he did little to no research before concluding that his hijinks
>enhance performance standards, productivity, and competitiveness. That
>conclusion is not based on some sort of boisterous philosophy or on
>Todd-style mental masturbation, but on widely known and proven principles
>of science. These principles explain that if we let Todd perpetuate
>misguided and questiona ble notions of other piteous rotters' intentions,
>then greed, corruption, and barbarism will characterize the government.
>Oppressive measures will be directed against citizens. And lies and deceit
>will be the stock and trade of the media and educational institutions.
>Just look at the bill of fare served up in recent movies and television
>programs, and you will hardly be able to deny that Todd's vaporings are a
>load of bunk. I use this delightfully pejorative term, "bunk" -- an
>alternative from the same page of my criminal-slang lexicon would serve
>just as well -- because if you are not smart enough to realize this, then
>you become the victim of your own ignorance. Todd's spin doctors insist
>that women are spare parts in the social repertoire -- mere optional
>extras. I say to them, "Prove it" -- not that they'll be able to, of
>course, but because if you look soberly and carefully at the evidence all
>around you, you will indubitably find that Todd is careless with data,
>makes all sorts of causal interpretations of things without any real
>justification, has a way of combining disparate ideas that don't seem to
>hang together, seems to show a sort of pride in his own biases, gets into
>all sorts of pathetic speculation, and then make s no effort to test out
>his speculations -- and that's just the short list! Todd's suggestions are
>unrealistic. I always catch hell whenever I say something like that, so
>let me assure you that I would never take a job working for him. Given his
>nerdy, intransigent vituperations, who would want to?
>It is quite common today to hear people express themselves as follows:
>"Todd's cat's-paws are disloyal at best, the downfall of society at
>worst." Is it important that this is a contributing factor to the apparent
>decline of civilization and culture around us? Of course it's important.
>But what's more important is that he has been trying for some time to
>convince people that the Earth is flat. Don't believe his hype! Todd has
>just been offering that line as a means to up the ante considerably.
>He does not tolerate any view that differs from his own. Rather, Todd
>discredits and discards those people who contradict him along with the
>ideas that they represent. The significance of this is that you may make
>the comment, "What does this have to do with uppity, subhuman
>bleeding-heart-types?" Well, once you begin to see the light, you'll
>realize that his latest manifesto, like all the ones that preceded it, is
>a consummate anthology of disastrously bad writing teeming with
>misquotations and inaccuracies, an odyssey of anecdotes that are
>occasionally entertaining, but certainly not informative. It is as if we
>were safely on the bank of a raging river, enjoying a picnic with our
>friends and family, when a bunch of bookish, crafty bribe-seekers came
>along and threw us into the river. Not only must we must struggle to avoid
>drowning in the raging torrent of Todd-sponsored fetishism, but we must
>crawl out of the river before we can investigate the development of sn
>obbism as a concept.
>I predict that some day, people will generally agree that we must use our
>minds and spirits to halt his efforts to promote the total destruction of
>individuality in favor of an all-powerful group. This is a prediction that
>will not be true in all cases, but it is expected to become more common as
>time passes. He doesn't want us to make technical preparations for the
>achievement of freedom and human independence. He would rather we settle
>for the meatless bone of extremism.
>The original purpose of animalism was to force us to experience the full
>spectrum of the Todd Toad Sprocket Rainbow of Favoritism, and hence, by
>extension, Todd's idea of slaphappy, flagitious McCarthyism is no
>political belief. It is a fierce and burning gospel of hatred and
>intolerance, of murder and destruction, and the unloosing of a huffy,
>superstitious blood-lust. It is, in every sense, a raucous and pagan
>religion that incites its worshippers to a foolhardy frenzy and then
>prompts them to make individuals indifferent to the survival of their
>families. Perhaps if he thought about it, he'd realize that prudence is no
>vice. Cowardice -- especially his impetuous form of it -- is. There is no
>contradiction here; even though no one today believes that an open party
>with unlimited access to alcohol can't possibly outgrow the host's ability
>to manage the crowd, you mustn't forget that Todd thinks we want him to
>scar little children's self-image. Excuse me, but maybe his treatises are
>not our only concern. To state the matter in a few words, his intent is to
>prevent us from asking questions. Todd doesn't want the details checked.
>He doesn't want anyone looking for any facts other than the official facts
>he presents to us. I wonder if this is because most of his "facts" are
>false. If you wonder why I take the stance that I do, it's because we are
>at a crossroads. One road leads into the light of a bright, shining future
>in which disrespectful clods like Todd are completely absent. The other
>road leads into the darkness of autism. The question, therefore, is: Who's
>driving the bus? In classic sophist fashion, I ask another question in
>reply: What happened to Todd's common sense? Let me give you a hint: Todd
>wants nothing less than to restructure the social, political, and economic
>relationships throughout the entire society. His bootlickers then wonder,
>"What's wrong with that?" Well, there's not much to be done with stolid
>cads who can't figure out what's wrong with that, but the rest of us can
>plainly see that I'm not going to respond to Todd's intimations beyond
>saying that Todd has made some imprecise statements and statements that
>ought to have had all sorts of qualifications and reservations attached to
>them. Am I being too harsh for writing that? Maybe I am, but that's really
>the only way you can push a point through to Todd.
>In case you don't know, if Todd isn't noisome, I don't know who is. People
>should soothe each other's pain, not exploit it. But it doesn't stop
>there. Some people think it's a bit extreme of me to establish democracy
>and equality -- a bit over the top, perhaps. Well, what I ought to remind
>such people is that I am making a pretty serious accusation here. I am
>accusing Todd of planning to condition the public -- or, more precisely,
>brainwash the public -- into believing that his allegations prevent
>smallpox. And I don't want anyone to think that I am basing my accusation
>only on the fact that any rational argument must acknowledge this. His
>stingy newsgroup postings, naturally, do not. While I don't know Todd's
>secret plans, I do know that Todd's methods are much subtler now than ever
>before. Todd is more adept at hidden mind control and his techniques of
>social brainwash are much more appealingly streamlined and homogenized.
>Some people are responsible and others are not. Todd falls into the
>category of "not". Before I continue, let me state that one can consecrate
>one's life to the service of a noble idea or a glorious ideology. Todd,
>however, is more likely to spit in the face of propriety. Who is behind
>the decline of our civilization? The culprit responsible is not the
>Illuminati, not the Insiders, not the Humanists, not even the Communists.
>No, the decline of our civilization is attributable primarily to Todd Toad
>Sprocket. Not surprisingly, the central paradox of his disquisitions, the
>twist that makes his campaigns so irresistible to the most scary
>pickpockets I've ever seen, is that these people truly believe that it is
>not only acceptable, but indeed desirable, to twist the truth. I could be
>wrong about any or all of this, but at the moment, the above fits what I
>know of history, people, and current conditions. If anyone sees anything
>wrong or has some new facts or theories on this, I'd love to hear about them.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Toad the Wet Sprocket
>To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org
>Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 6:55 PM
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Toad's WHOLE story as if anybody cares
>Sure will have to hire Rummy to uncover the facts.............but he is
>better at making them up for free. I took his and Ed's pot shots for
>awhile when the were talking out of their rears. Rummy and Ed........you
>have my e-mail address and you can send your humble apologies there.
>Todd
>Please respond to sprocket80@hotmail.com
>From: General Boats
>Reply-To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org
>To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Toad's WHOLE story as if anybody cares
>Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 08:53:15 -0400
>gosh, I guess we will have to hire Rummy to uncover the facts.
>1. We responded to the request for quotes as soon as we got back in
>town - I think we were at a show. We have a copy of the e-mail we sent
>in case it was never received.
>2. I did not tell anyone to shut up - it is not in my dictionary.
>3. And for the rest of the story, left off the quotes, I am the only
>builder I ever heard of who tells everyone, including those who have
>never given us a cent for their boats, if they have any questions, they
>can call me in the evenings at home. We just can't jump hoops during the
>day at the plant at the expense of productivity, particularly when it
>represents no income to meet that week's pressing payroll.
>As covered, we have managed to keep this ship afloat for 43 years while
>the big boys like O'Day and on and on have all abandoned ship - if
>anyone has something we have missed in all those learning years, we are
>always open to your suggestions. (Usually it turns out that we tried
>that and it did not work.)
>Of course, anyone not pleased with the way GBI is run, can always buy
>the company: $5,000,000, but good terms.
>stan/gbi
>Toad the Wet Sprocket wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > If judging by the subject line....this doesn't interest you
> > ...then by all means hit the delete button now. But this is just to
> > set the entire record straight. All of this talk about the alleged
> > "free advice" and "free service" was originally one 30 second phone
> > call and one e-mail and a couple of follow up e-mails for
> > clarification. The first follows:
> >
> >
> > Stan, > "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
> >
> > We spoke briefly on the telephone. You said to e-mail you to ask
> > questions and/or to order parts.
> >
> > Do you have or sell a parts catalog?
> >
> > I have a 1974 22 with no forward windows or deck hatches. Assuming I
> > have the skill necessary to install them, will they fit and will they
> > require any beefing up of the foredeck or cabin roof?
> >
> > Can I possibly see a picture of the traveler system being used on
> > current production boats?
> >
> > Can I get prices on the following parts:
> >
> > 1. Rudder head (my rudder blade is ok but everything above it needs
> > replacement)
> >
> > 2. Side port windows
> >
> > 3. Front windows
> >
> > 4. Tiller handle
> >
> > 5. Mast raising crane/equipment
> >
> > ThankYou
> >
> > Todd
> >
> > Now what part of that constitutes "free advice and service?" I
> > didn't think I would have to wait so long to ever get a response,
> > which needed two more e-mails for elaboration. I didn't ask Stan
> > Sptizer any "how do I" or "how is this supposed to be" questions. I
> > asked them here on the list. I was trying to see about buying some
> > parts.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I asked why was everything so secret (talking about why we
> > couldn't get any literature posted on line, especially after someone
> > already had and GB supposedly didn't have any) So when a few
> > people jumped on me, they did not really know what they were talking
> > about. I said I got "little help from the mfg of a boat I own" and
> > "Why is everything such a big secret and no one can talk about it?
> >
> > But this is what was said to me about it, in addition to a private
> > e-mail saying "buy a new R22 if you want documents and shut the hell
> > up." Of course I got a little tweaked.
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > "when you get answers you don't like, you pout. GET OVER IT. If you
> > want help, play nice or take your boat and go elsewhere. "
> >
> > ........"Over the years the list members have had to deal with all
> > kinds of people and personalities. I would have to say that for the
> > most part, those with bad attitudes leave in short order. It's nothing
> > personal, we just don't have to put up with it and don't. This list is
> > here because we have more control over what happens on the list. Not
> > just one computer cop, but the whole list."......
> >
> > ......."Well todd free is not alway cheap :-)".......
> >
> > Stan wrote
> >
> > "Toad says that, "The only reason I have this boat is because it was a
> > freebie,,," and that has conditioned him to expect not only free
> > service but instant free service, even if it should cause poorer
> > service to those who have paid for their boats."
> >
> > and
> >
> > "To this I must add that those who have bought a Rhodes from someone
> > else and given their money to that other party, in all innocence, find
> > it hard to understand our reluctance to stop what we are doing to
> > survive and respond to their call saying, 'you will be happy to hear
> > that I have just bought a Rhodes from so and so and now I need you to
> > give me your time to answer my questions'".
> >
> > So as Paul Harvey would say "Now you know the rest of the story."
> >
> > But...................I didn't ask any questions......so I shouldn't
> > have to be the one apologizing for anything, but the other way
> > around....
> >
> > the defense rests....no further questionsdon't bother responding to
> > sprocket80@hotmail.com
> >
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > FAQ pages at http://www.geocities.com/blew_skies/topics.html
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Who'd a thunk it?????<br><br>
Complaint letter generator wars!!!!<br><br>
You saw it here first folks :-) :-)<br><br>
Rik<br><br>
<br><br>
At 11:03 PM 9/3/2002 -0400, you wrote:<br><br>
<br>
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite>All,<br>
I take exception to a few key aspects of MJM's effusions. By way of
introduction, let me just say that MJM is the type of person who would
shoot you just to see if his gun worked. I know you're wondering why I
just wrote that. I'll explain shortly, but first, I should state that an
armed revolt against MJM is morally justified. However, I feel that it is
not yet strategically justified. His argument is hopelessly flawed and
entirely circuitous. If I recall correctly, MJM coins "polysyllabic
neologisms" to make his wisecracks sound like they're actually
important. In fact, his treatises are filled to the brim with words that
have yet to appear in any accepted dictionary. His beliefs (as I would
certainly not call them logically reasoned arguments) are an icon for the
deterioration of the list, for its slow slide into corruption, malaise,
and filth. I'm not writing this letter for your entertainment. I'm not
even writing it for your education. I'm writi ng it for your very
survival. <br>
The first lies that MJM told us were relatively benign. Still, they have
been progressing. And they will continue to progress until there is no
more truth; his lies will grow until they blot out the sun. He must think
that the world has no memory, but given the way things are these days, we
must remember that he says that his doctrines are a breath of fresh air
amid our modern culture's toxic cloud of chaos. That's his unvarying
story, and it's a lie: an extremely imprudent and disorderly lie.
Unfortunately, it's a lie that is accepted unquestioningly, uncritically,
by his subalterns. Who is MJM to decide what is morally acceptable for us
and what is not? <br>
Regardless of what he seems to think, on that basis, I should, at this
point, offer true constructive criticism -- listening to the whole issue,
recognizing the problems, recognizing what is being done right, and
getting involved to help remedy the problem. His plans for the future of
the list reflect an era in which cultures or attitudes different from
one's own were dealt with through violence and mistrust. Counselors might
believe that MJM makes a virtue of irremediable fault. Sociologists might
point out that his accusations have reached a depth of degeneracy that
was virtually unknown in the past. I agree with the above assessments,
but MJM's smear tactics are built on lies, and they depend on
make-believe for their continuation. <br>
It takes more than a mass of venal imbeciles to take a strong position on
his ideals, (and you should be suspicious whenever you hear such
tell-tale words and phrases as "mental masturbation",
"sufficient evidence", "mudslinging fugitives",
"oppressive measures", and "we must struggle to avoid
drowning in the raging torrent..."). It takes a great many
thoughtful and semi-thoughtful people who are willing to draw a picture
of what we conceive of under the word "mediterraneanization".
To say otherwise would be unstable. Although MJM won't admit it, I
consider his methods of interpretation antithetical to my principles as a
person concerned for the good of all. Now that that's cleared up, I'll
continue with what I was saying before, that it has been brought to my
attention that we can't afford to be so ridiculous in such difficult
times. While this is true, he is capable of only two things, namely
whining and underhanded tricks. Not only have unreasonable worrywarts d
ecided to glorify his memoranda by dressing it up as moral and righteous
prerogatives, but his criticisms are being debated as though they were
actually reasonable. Once one begins thinking about free speech, about
wrongheaded, headlong rubes who use ostracism and public opinion to
prevent the airing of views contrary to their own obtrusive beliefs, one
realizes that MJM is totally dour. We all are, to some extent, but he
sets the curve. The real question here is not, "How can he spawn
delusions of hedonism's resplendence and then turn around and shed tears
for those who got hurt as a result?". The real question is rather,
"Why does he always have to be such a party pooper?" Well, I'm
sure MJM would rather break up society's solidarity and cohesiveness than
answer that particular question. <br>
To restate the obvious: He uses this forum to prove that the readers of
this list are his pawns to be used and manipulated. Really? Polls would
show that MJM not only lies, but he brags about his lying to his stooges.
As someone who enjoys brandishing words like
"hyperphosphorescence" and "labyrinthibranchiate" as
a smoke screen to hide his philippics' inherent paradoxes, he must
undoubtedly be at a loss when someone presents a logical counterargument
to his nettlesome, obdurate theories. On the surface, it would seem
merely that MJM's canards make many mainstream antagonists nervous. But
the truth is that even if one is opposed to anti-humanist commercialism
(and I am), then surely, if I may be so bold, I am thoroughly shocked and
angered by MJM's chauvinistic improprieties. Such shameful conduct should
never be repeated. To summarize my views: The intent of this letter is
certainly not hatred, but a probing look into an obviously significant
issue. <br>
<br><br>
<br>
Please respond to
<a href=3D"mailto:sprocket80@hotmail.com">sprocket80@hotmail.com</a><br>
<br>
From: "Michael Meltzer" <br>
Reply-To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org <br>
To: <br>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Toad's WHOLE story as if anybody cares=20
<br>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 19:22:32 -0400 <br>
what up you sitting their stewing, about this point I write a post
explaining some facts of life on this list, 9 out of 10 time that is the
being of the end for the member it is directed to. I do not have time for
that now. Sorry people(It has great entertanment value). In the mean time
please use this as an expample of how to write a complant, we do have to
mantain standards, please make sure that the reply is as long <br>
MJM <br>
My duty to you, dear reader, constrains me to the disagreeable and almost
painful task of giving you a significant amount of information that you
may be unwilling to accept. I urge you to read the text that follows
carefully, keeping an open mind, from the beginning to the end, and
without skipping around. I further recommend that you take breaks, as
many of the facts presented will take time to digest. The world is
suffering from Mr. Todd Toad Sprocket's lack of faith in a transcendental
truth. That shouldn't surprise you when you consider that he gives new
meaning to the word "insipid". Sad, but true. And it'll only
get worse if he finds a way to oppose the visceral views of 98 percent of
the nation's citizens. However, Todd coins polysyllabic neologisms to
make his words sound like they're actually important. In fact, his
treatises are filled to the brim with words that have yet to appear in
any accepted dictionary. <br>
Now, perhaps you think I'm imagining things. Perhaps you think that he
really isn't going to purge the land of every non-dastardly person, gene,
idea, and influence. Well, I wish it were just my imagination. But you
know, by refusing to act, by refusing to investigate his dishonest
principles, ideals, and objectives, we are giving him the power to gum up
what were once great ideas. While Todd puts on a good dog and pony show,
if Fate desired that he make a correct application of what he had read
about negativism, it would have to indicate title and page number, since
the vexatious, semi-intelligible fool would otherwise never in all his
life find the correct place. But since Fate does not do this, he is not
as rapacious or discourteous as you might think. He's more so. At the
risk of repeating myself, I must reiterate that if we let him take
advantage of human fallibility to repeat the mistakes of the past, all
we'll have to look forward to in the future is a publi c realm devoid of
culture and a narrow and routinized professional life untouched by the
highest creations of civilization. <br>
For future reference, if I didn't think Todd would enact new laws forcing
anyone who's not one of his apostles to live in an environment that can,
at best, be described as contemptuously tolerant, I wouldn't say that
some people say that that isn't sufficient evidence to prove that he is
secretly scheming to turn thugs loose against us good citizens. And I
must agree; one needs much more evidence than that. But the evidence is
there, for anyone who isn't afraid to look at it. Just look at the way
that far too many people tolerate his utterances as long as they're
presented in small, seemingly harmless doses. What these people fail to
realize, however, is that when Todd tells us that the Eleventh
Commandment is, "Thou shalt help mudslinging fugitives evade capture
by the authorities", he somehow fails to mention that I take
seriously the view that his apologists are easily manipulated. He fails
to mention that except for a few bright spots, his teachings are totally
birdbrained. And he fails to mention that I'm not a psychiatrist.
Sometimes, though, I wish I were, so that I could better understand what
makes people like him want to maintain social control by eliminating
rights and freedoms. To put it crudely, Todd's lackeys compress Todd's
memoranda into brief, highly reductive, definitive-sounding phrases,
easily memorized and easily expressed. Now that's a rather crude and
simplistic statement, and, in many cases, it may not even be literally
true. But there is a sense in which it is generally true, a sense in
which it sincerely expresses how Todd's sound bites prove that he did
little to no research before concluding that his hijinks enhance
performance standards, productivity, and competitiveness. That conclusion
is not based on some sort of boisterous philosophy or on Todd-style
mental masturbation, but on widely known and proven principles of
science. These principles explain that if we let Todd perpetuate
misguided and questiona ble notions of other piteous rotters' intentions,
then greed, corruption, and barbarism will characterize the government.
Oppressive measures will be directed against citizens. And lies and
deceit will be the stock and trade of the media and educational
institutions. <br>
Just look at the bill of fare served up in recent movies and television
programs, and you will hardly be able to deny that Todd's vaporings are a
load of bunk. I use this delightfully pejorative term, "bunk"
-- an alternative from the same page of my criminal-slang lexicon would
serve just as well -- because if you are not smart enough to realize
this, then you become the victim of your own ignorance. Todd's spin
doctors insist that women are spare parts in the social repertoire --
mere optional extras. I say to them, "Prove it" -- not that
they'll be able to, of course, but because if you look soberly and
carefully at the evidence all around you, you will indubitably find that
Todd is careless with data, makes all sorts of causal interpretations of
things without any real justification, has a way of combining disparate
ideas that don't seem to hang together, seems to show a sort of pride in
his own biases, gets into all sorts of pathetic speculation, and then
make s no effort to test out his speculations -- and that's just the
short list! Todd's suggestions are unrealistic. I always catch hell
whenever I say something like that, so let me assure you that I would
never take a job working for him. Given his nerdy, intransigent
vituperations, who would want to? <br>
It is quite common today to hear people express themselves as follows:
"Todd's cat's-paws are disloyal at best, the downfall of society at
worst." Is it important that this is a contributing factor to the
apparent decline of civilization and culture around us? Of course it's
important. But what's more important is that he has been trying for some
time to convince people that the Earth is flat. Don't believe his hype!
Todd has just been offering that line as a means to up the ante
considerably. <br>
He does not tolerate any view that differs from his own. Rather, Todd
discredits and discards those people who contradict him along with the
ideas that they represent. The significance of this is that you may make
the comment, "What does this have to do with uppity, subhuman
bleeding-heart-types?" Well, once you begin to see the light, you'll
realize that his latest manifesto, like all the ones that preceded it, is
a consummate anthology of disastrously bad writing teeming with
misquotations and inaccuracies, an odyssey of anecdotes that are
occasionally entertaining, but certainly not informative. It is as if we
were safely on the bank of a raging river, enjoying a picnic with our
friends and family, when a bunch of bookish, crafty bribe-seekers came
along and threw us into the river. Not only must we must struggle to
avoid drowning in the raging torrent of Todd-sponsored fetishism, but we
must crawl out of the river before we can investigate the development of
sn obbism as a concept. <br>
I predict that some day, people will generally agree that we must use our
minds and spirits to halt his efforts to promote the total destruction of
individuality in favor of an all-powerful group. This is a prediction
that will not be true in all cases, but it is expected to become more
common as time passes. He doesn't want us to make technical preparations
for the achievement of freedom and human independence. He would rather we
settle for the meatless bone of extremism. <br>
The original purpose of animalism was to force us to experience the full
spectrum of the Todd Toad Sprocket Rainbow of Favoritism, and hence, by
extension, Todd's idea of slaphappy, flagitious McCarthyism is no
political belief. It is a fierce and burning gospel of hatred and
intolerance, of murder and destruction, and the unloosing of a huffy,
superstitious blood-lust. It is, in every sense, a raucous and pagan
religion that incites its worshippers to a foolhardy frenzy and then
prompts them to make individuals indifferent to the survival of their
families. Perhaps if he thought about it, he'd realize that prudence is
no vice. Cowardice -- especially his impetuous form of it -- is. There is
no contradiction here; even though no one today believes that an open
party with unlimited access to alcohol can't possibly outgrow the host's
ability to manage the crowd, you mustn't forget that Todd thinks we want
him to scar little children's self-image. Excuse me, but maybe his
treatises are not our only concern. To state the matter in a few words,
his intent is to prevent us from asking questions. Todd doesn't want the
details checked. He doesn't want anyone looking for any facts other than
the official facts he presents to us. I wonder if this is because most of
his "facts" are false. If you wonder why I take the stance that
I do, it's because we are at a crossroads. One road leads into the light
of a bright, shining future in which disrespectful clods like Todd are
completely absent. The other road leads into the darkness of autism. The
question, therefore, is: Who's driving the bus? In classic sophist
fashion, I ask another question in reply: What happened to Todd's common
sense? Let me give you a hint: Todd wants nothing less than to
restructure the social, political, and economic relationships throughout
the entire society. His bootlickers then wonder, "What's wrong with
that?" Well, there's not much to be done with stolid cads who can't
figure out what's wrong with that, but the rest of us can plainly see
that I'm not going to respond to Todd's intimations beyond saying that
Todd has made some imprecise statements and statements that ought to have
had all sorts of qualifications and reservations attached to them. Am I
being too harsh for writing that? Maybe I am, but that's really the only
way you can push a point through to Todd. <br>
In case you don't know, if Todd isn't noisome, I don't know who is.
People should soothe each other's pain, not exploit it. But it doesn't
stop there. Some people think it's a bit extreme of me to establish
democracy and equality -- a bit over the top, perhaps. Well, what I ought
to remind such people is that I am making a pretty serious accusation
here. I am accusing Todd of planning to condition the public -- or, more
precisely, brainwash the public -- into believing that his allegations
prevent smallpox. And I don't want anyone to think that I am basing my
accusation only on the fact that any rational argument must acknowledge
this. His stingy newsgroup postings, naturally, do not. While I don't
know Todd's secret plans, I do know that Todd's methods are much subtler
now than ever before. Todd is more adept at hidden mind control and his
techniques of social brainwash are much more appealingly streamlined and
homogenized. <br>
Some people are responsible and others are not. Todd falls into the
category of "not". Before I continue, let me state that one can
consecrate one's life to the service of a noble idea or a glorious
ideology. Todd, however, is more likely to spit in the face of propriety.
Who is behind the decline of our civilization? The culprit responsible is
not the Illuminati, not the Insiders, not the Humanists, not even the
Communists. No, the decline of our civilization is attributable primarily
to Todd Toad Sprocket. Not surprisingly, the central paradox of his
disquisitions, the twist that makes his campaigns so irresistible to the
most scary pickpockets I've ever seen, is that these people truly believe
that it is not only acceptable, but indeed desirable, to twist the truth.
I could be wrong about any or all of this, but at the moment, the above
fits what I know of history, people, and current conditions. If anyone
sees anything wrong or has some new facts or theories on this, I'd love
to hear about them. <br>
----- Original Message ----- <br>
From: Toad the Wet Sprocket <br>
To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org <br>
Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 6:55 PM <br>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Toad's WHOLE story as if anybody cares=20
<br>
Sure will have to hire Rummy to uncover the facts.............but he is
better at making them up for free. I took his and Ed's pot shots for
awhile when the were talking out of their rears. Rummy and Ed........you
have my e-mail address and you can send your humble apologies there.
<br>
Todd <br>
Please respond to sprocket80@hotmail.com <br>
From: General Boats <br>
Reply-To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org <br>
To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org <br>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Toad's WHOLE story as if anybody cares=20
<br>
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 08:53:15 -0400 <br>
gosh, I guess we will have to hire Rummy to uncover the facts. <br>
1. We responded to the request for quotes as soon as we got back in=20
<br>
town - I think we were at a show. We have a copy of the e-mail we sent
<br>
in case it was never received. <br>
2. I did not tell anyone to shut up - it is not in my dictionary. <br>
3. And for the rest of the story, left off the quotes, I am the only
<br>
builder I ever heard of who tells everyone, including those who have
<br>
never given us a cent for their boats, if they have any questions, they
<br>
can call me in the evenings at home. We just can't jump hoops during the
<br>
day at the plant at the expense of productivity, particularly when it
<br>
represents no income to meet that week's pressing payroll. <br>
As covered, we have managed to keep this ship afloat for 43 years while
<br>
the big boys like O'Day and on and on have all abandoned ship - if <br>
anyone has something we have missed in all those learning years, we are
<br>
always open to your suggestions. (Usually it turns out that we tried
<br>
that and it did not work.) <br>
Of course, anyone not pleased with the way GBI is run, can always buy
<br>
the company: $5,000,000, but good terms. <br>
stan/gbi <br>
Toad the Wet Sprocket wrote: <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> If judging by the subject line....this doesn't interest you <br>
> ...then by all means hit the delete button now. But this is just to
<br>
> set the entire record straight. All of this talk about the alleged
<br>
> "free advice" and "free service" was originally
one 30 second phone <br>
> call and one e-mail and a couple of follow up e-mails for <br>
> clarification. The first follows: <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Stan, > "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
<br>
> <br>
> We spoke briefly on the telephone. You said to e-mail you to ask
<br>
> questions and/or to order parts. <br>
> <br>
> Do you have or sell a parts catalog? <br>
> <br>
> I have a 1974 22 with no forward windows or deck hatches. Assuming I
<br>
> have the skill necessary to install them, will they fit and will
they <br>
> require any beefing up of the foredeck or cabin roof? <br>
> <br>
> Can I possibly see a picture of the traveler system being used on
<br>
> current production boats? <br>
> <br>
> Can I get prices on the following parts: <br>
> <br>
> 1. Rudder head (my rudder blade is ok but everything above it needs
<br>
> replacement) <br>
> <br>
> 2. Side port windows <br>
> <br>
> 3. Front windows <br>
> <br>
> 4. Tiller handle <br>
> <br>
> 5. Mast raising crane/equipment <br>
> <br>
> ThankYou <br>
> <br>
> Todd <br>
> <br>
> Now what part of that constitutes "free advice and
service?" I <br>
> didn't think I would have to wait so long to ever get a response,
<br>
> which needed two more e-mails for elaboration. I didn't ask Stan
<br>
> Sptizer any "how do I" or "how is this supposed to
be" questions. I <br>
> asked them here on the list. I was trying to see about buying some
<br>
> parts. <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> I asked why was everything so secret (talking about why we <br>
> couldn't get any literature posted on line, especially after someone
<br>
> already had and GB supposedly didn't have any) So when a few <br>
> people jumped on me, they did not really know what they were talking
<br>
> about. I said I got "little help from the mfg of a boat I
own" and <br>
> "Why is everything such a big secret and no one can talk about
it? <br>
> <br>
> But this is what was said to me about it, in addition to a private
<br>
> e-mail saying "buy a new R22 if you want documents and shut the
hell <br>
> up." Of course I got a little tweaked. <br>
> <br>
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
<br>
> <br>
> "when you get answers you don't like, you pout. GET OVER IT. If
you <br>
> want help, play nice or take your boat and go elsewhere. "
<br>
> <br>
> ........"Over the years the list members have had to deal with
all <br>
> kinds of people and personalities. I would have to say that for the
<br>
> most part, those with bad attitudes leave in short order. It's
nothing <br>
> personal, we just don't have to put up with it and don't. This list
is <br>
> here because we have more control over what happens on the list. Not
<br>
> just one computer cop, but the whole list."...... <br>
> <br>
> ......."Well todd free is not alway cheap :-)".......
<br>
> <br>
> Stan wrote <br>
> <br>
> "Toad says that, "The only reason I have this boat is
because it was a <br>
> freebie,,," and that has conditioned him to expect not only
free <br>
> service but instant free service, even if it should cause poorer
<br>
> service to those who have paid for their boats." <br>
> <br>
> and <br>
> <br>
> "To this I must add that those who have bought a Rhodes from
someone <br>
> else and given their money to that other party, in all innocence,
find <br>
> it hard to understand our reluctance to stop what we are doing to
<br>
> survive and respond to their call saying, 'you will be happy to hear
<br>
> that I have just bought a Rhodes from so and so and now I need you
to <br>
> give me your time to answer my questions'". <br>
> <br>
> So as Paul Harvey would say "Now you know the rest of the
story." <br>
> <br>
> But...................I didn't ask any questions......so I shouldn't
<br>
> have to be the one apologizing for anything, but the other way=20
<br>
> around.... <br>
> <br>
> the defense rests....no further questionsdon't bother responding to
<br>
> sprocket80@hotmail.com <br>
> <br>
> <br>
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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