[Rhodes22-list] The Rhodes 22 As An "Offshore" Cruising Boat
Rik Sandberg
rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org
Thu, 12 Sep 2002 10:10:34 -0500
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Bill,
I understand what you are saying and appreciate your concern, but lets =
keep one thing in mind. I could leave the house in the morning on my way =
to work, get run down by the garbage truck and never be heard from again =
too. We are talking about a pretty short voyage here. Maybe 50/60 miles =
of open water to be crossed in something less than a twenty four hour =
period, where it is possible to carefully chose the conditions you will =
be going in. Yes I know there's the gulf stream to contend with and =
weather can sometimes change unpredictably. I feel these things add some =
challenge to the trip and make it more interesting. If I'm just going to =
bob around on some lake in perfect safety every time I go out, heck, I =
might as well just buy a lawn chair and sit out in the back yard.=20
Crossing the Pacific in a 9 foot, or for that matter, any sailboat, =
could amount to a trip that would be months long. Once out of sight of =
land you could be exposed to dozens of different weather/wave patterns =
in this period of time. On a trip like this, you pretty much have to =
take whatever Ma Nature dishes out. I'll bet your friend in the 9 foot =
boat understood that when he left and was willing to deal with the =
possible consequences. At least I hope he did.
I have raced sprint cars for the past 15 years. Believe me, I understand =
the pain that can be involved when you make a mistake. I have had broken =
bones, spent time in the hospital for a concussion, and on the easier =
crashes, just limped around with a bad case of racer rheumatism for a =
few unpleasant days. I also understand the joy of making the risky move, =
not making a mistake and finishing first. This is a feeling that's hard =
to come by if you're always going to play it safe.
Bottom line in my mind is, we're all going to die from something. That's =
guaranteed. Thank God we don't know when or from what. When it's my day =
to go, I'll be going and there probably isn't much I'll be able to do =
about it. I just hope I'm still challenging myself when my time comes.
Sorry it took so long to reply on this, been kinda busy.
Best Regards
Rik
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Bill Effros=20
To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2002 7:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] The Rhodes 22 As An "Offshore" Cruising =
Boat
Rik,
I've told this story before, I'm not sure you were on the list:
A guy I went to college with sailed a 9 foot something boat across the =
Atlantic, setting the record for small boats at that time. He then =
towed his boat to San Diego and set out to claim the Pacific title as =
well. He was never heard from again.
Bill Effros
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Rik Sandberg=20
To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] The Rhodes 22 As An "Offshore" Cruising =
Boat
Roger, and all
That was very, very well said. I am with you 100% on this, both in the =
"knowing and having confidence in what you are doing" and the =
"responsibility for your own actions" parts. I too am getting extremely =
frustrated with all the "safety" police who would treat us all at the =
level of the most ignorant, no matter how skilled or knowledgeable we =
may be in a particular area. This is not only restrictive, but =
expensive, as people try to develop fancier and fancier equipment =
designed to save us in the event of our own foolishness.
Truth be known, I am looking forward to the opportunity to take our R =
22 across the stream to the Bahamas some day. I have read too many =
accounts of people having done it in far smaller and lighter built craft =
than the R 22 to believe that it is all that tough, given decent weather =
and a couple of modifications, of course. I would agree that Bermuda =
might be kind of a stretch though. But, I see that some guy has just =
finished a trip, San Francisco to Hilo, Hawaii in August in his WW =
Potter 19.
Some of us seem to set pretty low limits for ourselves.
Rik
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Roger Pihlaja=20
To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 10:48 AM
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] The Rhodes 22 As An "Offshore" Cruising =
Boat
Hi Everybody,
We've had this discussion before on the list as to whether the =
Rhodes 22 can be used "offshore". We've even had lengthy discussions of =
what "offshore" means.
Well, clearly nobody is about to attempt to circumnavigate the earth =
in a Rhodes 22. Even an ocean crossing, which would involve weeks at =
sea, is probably too much. But, explain to me what's different about =
sailing in the Bahama Islands vs. sailing along some remote stretch of =
the United States coastline, the Great Lakes, or in the Florida Keys? =
There are enough islands & destinations in the northern Bahama Islands, =
each one less than a day's sail from each other, to make for a great =
cruising vacation. But, to get to & from the Bahama Islands by the =
route I suggested in my previous post, you would have to be willing to =
wait in Florida & the West End for a suitable weather window. My family =
has done extensive wilderness cruising on the Great Lakes & it's no =
different. We routinely pack 2 - 3 extra days rations along on a Great =
Lakes cruise to allow for weather related layover days. Patience to =
wait for suitable conditions is simply a fundamental ingredient in this =
sort of cruising. Crossing the Gulf Stream in a Rhodes 22 is definitely =
at the upper edge of the boat's capability envelope. I certainly =
couldn't guarantee a pleasant or comfortable Gulf Stream crossing. But, =
given a suitable weather window with a capable crew on board & the boat =
properly prepared, I think it's doable.
This sort of voyaging in a Rhodes 22 has more in common with remote =
wilderness backpacking than with big boat cruising. You have to learn =
to be self sufficient; plan all aspects of the voyage; posses the proper =
skills - sailing, navigation, First Aid, weather forecasting, etc; set =
the boat up properly; plan the meals & the use of other consumables such =
as fuel & water. The whole trip becomes a series of calculated risks =
with contingency plans A,B, & C at every step of the way. At this =
level, factoring weather into the equation, even the possibility of a =
hurricane, becomes just another part of the process. Obviously, this =
sort of cruising is not everybody's cup of tea & it's definitely not for =
the faint of heart or a beginner. But, this is the manner in which some =
people, myself & sons included, choose to use their small boats. I =
thank God our society has not yet reached the point where the do-gooders =
have made it impossible to play in this manner. Richard, please excuse =
my bluntness, but I tend to chafe at such intrusions into my personal =
liberty. I think I know far better than you what the risks are, what =
Dynamic Equilibrium, my sons, & I are capable of accomplishing, & I =
neither need or want your advice. If I screw up, then I am also =
prepared to accept the consequences.
There are a thousand things that could go wrong on this sort of =
trip. You try to prepare & plan it out as best as you can beforehand. =
But, at some point, the trip is all about having sufficient confidence =
in yourself, your crew, & your equipment to go & do it. If your =
personality isn't setup that way, then you will never understand & you =
should stay closer to home.
Roger Pihlaja
S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Bill,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I understand what you are saying and appreciate =
your=20
concern, but lets keep one thing in mind. I could leave the house in the =
morning=20
on my way to work, get run down by the garbage truck and never be heard =
from=20
again too. We are talking about a pretty short voyage here. Maybe 50/60 =
miles of=20
open water to be crossed in something less than a twenty four hour =
period, where=20
it is possible to carefully chose the conditions you will be going in. =
Yes I=20
know there's the gulf stream to contend with and weather can sometimes =
change=20
unpredictably. I feel these things add some challenge to the trip =
and make=20
it more interesting. If I'm just going to bob around on some lake in =
perfect=20
safety every time I go out, heck, I might as well just buy a lawn chair =
and sit=20
out in the back yard. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Crossing the Pacific in a 9 foot, or for that =
matter, any=20
sailboat, could amount to a trip that would be months long. Once out of =
sight of=20
land you could be exposed to dozens of different weather/wave patterns =
in this=20
period of time. On a trip like this, you pretty much have to take =
whatever Ma=20
Nature dishes out. I'll bet your friend in the 9 foot boat understood =
that when=20
he left and was willing to deal with the possible consequences. At least =
I hope=20
he did.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I have raced sprint cars for the past 15 years. =
Believe me, I=20
understand the pain that can be involved when you make a mistake. I have =
had=20
broken bones, spent time in the hospital for a concussion, and =
on the=20
easier crashes, just limped around with a bad case of racer rheumatism =
for a few=20
unpleasant days. I also understand the joy of making the risky=20
move, not making a mistake and finishing first.</FONT> <FONT=20
size=3D2>This is a feeling that's hard to come by if you're always going =
to play=20
it safe.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Bottom line in my mind is, we're all going to die =
from=20
something. That's guaranteed. Thank God we don't know when or from what. =
When=20
it's my day to go, I'll be going and there probably isn't much I'll be =
able to=20
do about it. I just hope I'm still challenging myself when my time=20
comes.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Sorry it took so long to reply on this, been kinda=20
busy.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Best Regards</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Rik</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dbill@effros.com href=3D"mailto:bill@effros.com">Bill =
Effros</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Drhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
=
href=3D"mailto:rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org">rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org</A>=
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, September 08, =
2002 7:34=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Rhodes22-list] =
The Rhodes=20
22 As An "Offshore" Cruising Boat</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Rik,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I've told this story before, I'm not sure you were on the =
list:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>A guy I went to college with sailed a 9 foot something boat =
across the=20
Atlantic, setting the record for small boats at that time. He =
then towed=20
his boat to San Diego and set out to claim the Pacific title as=20
well. He was never heard from again.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Bill Effros</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----=20
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A=20
title=3Dracerrik@rea-alp.com href=3D"mailto:racerrik@rea-alp.com">Rik =
Sandberg</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=3Drhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
=
href=3D"mailto:rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org">rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org</A>=
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, September 06, 2002 12:36 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Rhodes22-list] The Rhodes 22 As An =
"Offshore"=20
Cruising Boat</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Roger, and all</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>That was very, very well said. I am with you =
100% on=20
this, both in the "knowing and having confidence in what you are =
doing"=20
and the "responsibility for your own actions" parts. I too am =
getting=20
extremely frustrated with all the "safety" police who would treat =
us=20
all at the level of the most ignorant, no matter how skilled or=20
knowledgeable we may be in a particular area. This is not only =
restrictive,=20
but expensive, as people try to develop fancier and fancier equipment =
designed=20
to save us in the event of our own foolishness.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Truth be known, I am looking forward to the =
opportunity to=20
take our R 22 across the stream to the Bahamas some day. I have read =
too many=20
accounts of people having done it in far smaller and lighter built =
craft than=20
the R 22 to believe that it is all that tough, given decent weather =
and a=20
couple of modifications, of course. I would agree that Bermuda =
might be=20
kind of a stretch though. But, I see that some guy has just finished a =
trip,=20
San Francisco to Hilo, Hawaii in August in his WW Potter =
19.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Some of us seem to set pretty low limits for=20
ourselves.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Rik</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dcen09402@centurytel.net =
href=3D"mailto:cen09402@centurytel.net">Roger=20
Pihlaja</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Drhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
=
href=3D"mailto:rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org">rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org</A>=
=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, September 06, =
2002 10:48=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Rhodes22-list] The =
Rhodes 22=20
As An "Offshore" Cruising Boat</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Everybody,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We've had this discussion before on =
the=20
list as to whether the Rhodes 22 can be used =
"offshore". =20
We've even had lengthy discussions of what "offshore" =
means.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Well, clearly nobody is about to=20
attempt to circumnavigate the earth in a Rhodes 22. =
Even an=20
ocean crossing, which would involve weeks at sea, is probably too=20
much. But, explain to me what's different about sailing in the =
Bahama=20
Islands vs. sailing along some remote stretch of the United States=20
coastline, the Great Lakes, or in the Florida Keys? There =
are=20
enough islands & destinations in the northern Bahama Islands, =
each one=20
less than a day's sail from each other, to make for a great cruising =
vacation. But, to get to & from the Bahama Islands by the =
route I=20
suggested in my previous post, you would have to be willing to wait =
in=20
Florida & the West End for a suitable weather window. My =
family=20
has done extensive wilderness cruising on the Great Lakes & it's =
no=20
different. We routinely pack 2 - 3 extra days rations along on =
a Great=20
Lakes cruise to allow for weather related layover days. =
Patience to=20
wait for suitable conditions is simply a fundamental ingredient in =
this sort=20
of cruising. Crossing the Gulf Stream in a Rhodes 22 is =
definitely at=20
the upper edge of the boat's capability envelope. I =
certainly=20
couldn't guarantee a pleasant or comfortable Gulf Stream =
crossing. =20
But, given a suitable weather window with a capable crew on board =
& the=20
boat properly prepared, I think it's doable.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This sort of voyaging in =
a Rhodes 22=20
has more in common with remote wilderness backpacking than with big =
boat=20
cruising. You have to learn to be self sufficient; plan all =
aspects of=20
the voyage; posses the proper skills - sailing, navigation, First =
Aid,=20
weather forecasting, etc; set the boat up properly; plan the meals =
& the=20
use of other consumables such as fuel & water. The whole =
trip=20
becomes a series of calculated risks with contingency plans =
A,B, &=20
C at every step of the way. At this level, factoring weather =
into the=20
equation, even the possibility of a hurricane, becomes just another =
part of=20
the process. Obviously, this sort of cruising is not =
everybody's cup=20
of tea & it's definitely not for the faint of heart or a =
beginner. =20
But, this is the manner in which some people, myself & sons =
included,=20
choose to use their small boats. I thank God our society has =
not yet=20
reached the point where the do-gooders have made it impossible =
to play=20
in this manner. Richard, please excuse my bluntness, but I =
tend to=20
chafe at such intrusions into my personal liberty. I think I =
know far=20
better than you what the risks are, what Dynamic Equilibrium, =
my sons,=20
& I are capable of accomplishing, & I neither need or =
want your=20
advice. If I screw up, then I am also prepared to accept the=20
consequences.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>There are a thousand things that =
could go wrong=20
on this sort of trip. You try to prepare & plan it =
out as=20
best as you can beforehand. But, at some point, the trip =
is all=20
about having sufficient confidence in yourself, your =
crew, &=20
your equipment to go & do it. If your personality isn't =
setup that=20
way, then you will never understand & you should stay =
closer to=20
home.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Roger Pihlaja</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>S/V Dynamic=20
Equilibrium</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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