[Rhodes22-list] Forestay Wire Size Upgrade

Mon Jun 2 23:59:20 EDT 2003

Bob,

If your forestay failed near the lower swage fitting the most likely cause
was crevice corrosion from moisture getting into the swage over time. Its ok
to go up one size on the wire, but you will not be able to properly tension
a larger wire without overloading the rest of the rig.  Static tension on
the wire is supposed to be between 10 and 20% of rated breaking strength.
For 1/8" wire, which is standard on the Rhodes, the breaking strength is
around 2100lbs. 5/32" wire is around 3100lbs, 3/16" wire is 4700lbs and 1/4"
wire is 6300 lbs. 5/32" is one size up from the rest of the rig, which is
plenty. One of my old lower shrouds failed under calm conditions with the
boat at the dock. There was no visible damage or discoloration or other
obvious outward sign of deterioration prior to failure. I replaced the
entire rigging gang immediately. If yours is original to the boat and 10
years old or more I would recommend the same. If you want to avoid the
problem of swage failure, get a 5/32" forestay with a Sta-lok fitting on the
lower end instead of a swage. they don't make Sta-loks for 1/8" wire or I
would have used them. Since I don't have a furler, I stayed with 1/8" on my
gloucester. I used Sailing Services of Miami for the new rig. They pack the
swage fittings with an anti-corrosion grease before compressing them onto
the wire and use a rotary hammer press that produces a tighter fitting swage
than the usual Kearney roll swaging press without deforming or cracking the
swage fitting.  SSM specializes in rigs for boats that spend their lives in
tropical salt water areas, so they use a premium grade wire alloy and
fittings and take extra measures to maximize corrosion resistance. If you
are in a rush, Riggers Supply in Greenville can make a new one up for you
while you wait if they are not too busy. They do mostly heavy gauge
industrial rigging like cranes. They use a Kearney roll swager for smaller
stuff. You might have to supply your own end fittings since they don't stock
marine hardware. They do have the wire though.

Razz the Gloucester sailor

Hi Rhodies, its been a while since I have been active due to family
circumstances, though I have been catching up on the list backlog every once
in awhile. PS Bob,Ed and Rummy, my sister gave me a Loos tension gauge for
Christmas, so if you want to tweak your rigs just holler.

-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]On Behalf Of Bob Keller
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 8:20 AM
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Forestay Wire Size Upgrade

Roger & Rummy,
Could I super-size the stay by drilling a larger hole in the roller furler
drums?  Or would it be better to leave well enough alone and keep the size
the same.  I thought that I had 1/4" wire, but you (Roger) said that you
increased the size up to 3/16"  I'm confused (as usual).
Bob K

>From: "John Tonjes" <johntonjes at earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: johntonjes at earthlink.net,The Rhodes 22 mail list
><rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Forestay Wire Size Upgrade
>Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:54:33 -0400
>
>Roger,
>Thank you. We tried to convince Captain Bob that the wire broke due to
>operator error and you helped to reinforce our opinions. Sometimes it's
>hardest to see the forest through the trees.
>
>Rummy
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Roger Pihlaja <cen09402 at centurytel.net>
> > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Date: 6/2/2003 7:43:57 AM
> > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Forestay Wire Size Upgrade
> >
> > Bob,
> >
> > When I upgraded my roller furler from the stock GBI unit to a Harken
>Unit
>0,
> > I increased the forestay wire size from 5/32" OD up to 3/16" OD.  I made
> > this upgrade because 3/16" OD was the largest wire size that would fit
>the
> > Harken Unit 0 and the differences in cost, weight, & windage were
> > negligible.  There was a significant upgrade in safety margin as the max
> > tensile breaking strength was increased by about 35%.  Just make certain
>the
> > end fittings use the same size pins as you have now.  Before you make
>this
> > change in wire size, be certain your OEM roller furler can handle it.
>My
> > guess is that it will not be able to work with the larger wire OD.
>There
> > probably won't be sufficient clearance for the mechanism to turn easily.
> >
> > It is rare that a wire rope will simply fail W/O any warning in the
>middle
> > of its length, especially in light air.  Most the time, progressive wire
> > rope degradation or imminent failure can be detected by inspecting the
>wire
> > visually & running your hand or a cloth along it.  Single strand
>failures
>in
> > a wire rope usually show up as curled "meat hooks" that you will feel
>with
> > your hand or will snag a rag.
> >
> > It is especially important to inspect the fittings at the ends of the
>wire
> > rope.  Look for tiny cracks &/or discoloration (usually rust or black in
> > color) in the fitting or the wire near the fitting.  If you see any
>cracks
> > or discoloration; then, immediately take the piece to a rigging shop or
>just
> > simply replace it.
> >
> > Your post implies you suspect your forestay was somehow getting
>repeatedly
> > kinked just below the bottom of the furling drum as a result of the
> > trailering process.  If this is the case; then, you need to change your
> > trailering &/or mast stepping procedures.  In thousands of trailering
>miles
> > & dozens of mast steps since 1987, my forestay has never been kinked as
>a
> > result of trailering or mast stepping.  If your forestay was getting
> > repeatedly kinked in the same spot, this would be very bad for the wire.
> > Upgading to a larger wire size will do little to fix this problem.
> > Stainless steel wire rope is not very tolerant of kinks.  So, if your
> > trailering &/or mast stepping procedures are causing the forestay to be
> > kinked; then, figure out some other way accomplish the same task W/O
>kinking
> > the wire.
> >
> > Good luck, Bob!
> >
> > Roger Pihlaja
> > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bob Keller" <r22yankeeclipper at hotmail.com>
> > To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 11:32 PM
> > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Frigging Rigging
> >
> >
> > > While sailing today on a rather calm day on Lake Hartwell, my latest
> > > calamity was that my forestay broke.  Yep, it broke off right at the
> > bottom
> > > of the furler drum.  Could have been worse because Roger R shinnied up
>the
> > > mast (amazing thing to see) and tied a line just above the spreaders
>which
> > > we secured to the bow cleat to keep the mast from going too far.
> > Meanwhile,
> > > Rummy was mixing drinks below, oblivious to the goings-on up above.
>We
> > > motored back from Big Water and dropped the mast.
> > >
> > > Looks like the forestay was bent too many times, possibly from
>trailering,
> > > and it finally gave way.
> > >
> > > It was recommended to me to upsize the forestay to 5/16" (by the same
> > people
> > > who told me to pull my diamondboard  down all the way unti lit is
> > > perpendicular to the boat!).  Does anyone have experience or knowledge
>of
> > > using a slightly larger stay?  Any problems to be aware of?  Sounds
>like a
> > > good idea to me, but I wanted to check the list to see if anyone has
>done
> > > this before?  Thanks.
> > > Bob K
> > > s/v Yankee Clipper
> > >
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> > >
> > >
> >
> >
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>
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