[ham] [Rhodes22-list] bottom paint used by everyone.
Michael Meltzer
mjm@michaelmeltzer.com
Sun, 30 Mar 2003 13:43:08 -0500
ok the 2003 PS ratings are out, it the standards winner again.
picking paint come down to this:
1)multi or single session,
2)fresh or salt water,
3)northern or southern session
4) tailering often or lunch and retrieve for the session
5)sitting out of the water or inwater(i.e. at dock/mooring or dry storage on the trailer, but their is a second question will the
boat be in the water for more than a week if dry store)
6) cost(but the labor factor is usually alot higher and out rakes it)
unfortunately, I am subpost to be geting up to speed on FX trading vs bottom paint today(and a few more days :-), but I take a quick
question, maybe some wants to "gather the debate" for the next time(beside I know a few other get PS)
MJM
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kroposki" <kroposki@innova.net>
To: <skipperken@excite.com>; "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2003 12:22 PM
Subject: [ham] [Rhodes22-list] bottom paint used by everyone.
> Ken:
> Does any of this old stuff help?
>
> Left vs. Right (politics)
> Hey Michael.
> What brand do you use? I have always use Interlux
> Bottomkote but then I am also in freshwater.
> Steve
> --- Michael Meltzer <mjm@michaelmeltzer.com wrote:
> speaking of spring, I just paid 165$ for a stinking
> galleon of bottompaint, that stuff is worth is
> weight in copper :-)
>
> Bruce,
> Yes, If it cures too hard the ablative properties are diminished. My
> boat
> was on the hard for over a year when I boat it. I was instructed to hose
>
> down the hull and then brush lightly before launching. I am not sure if
> it
> actually did anything but I figured what the hell...
>
> Wally
> From: "Bruce M. Greenwald" <bgreenwald@optonline.net
> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org
> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org
> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] FW: bottom paint
> Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 20:06:11 -0500
>
> I did some minor repairs to my rudder today and, in preparing to apply a
> coat of anti-fouling paint, I noticed that the instructions indicated
> that the boat should be launhed no more than 60 days after being
> painted. I was curious as to why there is a maximum time to launch. Is
> that because the ablative properties are affected if the hull is not
> immersed within that time period?
>
> Bruce Greenwald
> S/V Ruach II
> Subject: Re: [ham] RE: [Rhodes22-list] Left vs. Right (politics)
>
> I used/using ultama with sr, I almost used micron extra with
> bio(whatever :-) but stuck with what on it(apc with sr), make life
> easily :-), go two sessions out of the last gallion so I figuried maybe
> I get 3 out of the new stuff :-), the stuff getting pricy I remeber
> paying 109$ last round. I sail in the same waters that PS test in so it
> make sence to follow the test results, bad floowing it is brackish
> waters. I eat my hat if micro gets a better rating next month :-)
>
> The imron and algrip need to be done by a pro, very nasty stuff, full
> body suit, sealed mask, air hose and non explosive environment. Even
> then having children and not dieing of cancer are debatable. The reason
> they use the stuff is because most people have poor result with the
> other stuff(single part and epoxy paint), Maybe paint pro's do better
> not not you the first time, sorry. I would call around local and see
> what they want, most quote by the foot, If you have other resions for
> the boat to visit GB they can do it as well.
> MJM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Proud Daddy
>
> I did the prep and did the bottom coat (Micron CSC with Biolux) as far
> as I could while it was on the trailer. Then the guys at the marina put
> it up in the travel hoist and did the areas I couldn't reach on the
> trailer and then did a second coat also. The red and gold stripes (Yes
> there is a gold stripe if you look closely) are vinyl as is the
> lettering. All came from West Marine. They provided all at a very nice
> price.
>
> Fair Winds,
>
> Bob Hendrickson
> S/V Getaway
> Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Proud Daddy
> Bob,
> You have already been asked this question, but I have not seen
> your reply. Did you Paint the outside?
> Ed K
>
> Subject: Re: [rhodes-list] Bottom paint
> Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 19:54:41 -0400
> From: "ROBERT J QUINN" <rjquinn@prodigy.net
> Reply-To: <rhodes-list@sailnet.net
> To: <rhodes-list@sailnet.net
>
> I have done both: cleaned with a power washer and painted; and had it
> done by a marina. Only problem doing it yourself is getting under the
> bunks. There are ways to jack the boat up to get to those areas.
> Figure about $350 to $400 minimum at a marina. They generally charge by
> the length of the boat and will kick the price up if the bottom is
> really fouled. I've gone as long as 18 months between bottom jobs
> using Petit Trinidad but I have either gone over the side and scrubbed
> the boat down about once a month or had someone else do it. We are win
> warm brackish water.
>
> Bob on the "NoKaOi"
> Subject: Re: [rhodes-list] Fairing a gouge
> Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 14:58:55 -0400
> From: "Roger Pihlaja" <cen09402@centurytel.net
> Reply-To: <rhodes-list@sailnet.net
> To: <rhodes-list@sailnet.net
>
> Rik,
> I don't think the difference lies in our bottom paints or in the bunks.
> However, for whatever it's worth, I use Interlux VC-17m bottom paint &
> my trailer bunks are covered with low nap outdoor patio carpeting.
>
> I suspect the height adjustment on your keel guide rollers (my trailer
> has two keel rollers) is set too low. This causes too much of the
> weight of the boat to be carried on the bunks, thus causing the boat's
> position on the trailer to be difficult to adjust. Another thing to
> check is the curvature & in/out adjustment of the bunks. If the bunks
> do not properly conform to the shape of the hull, this could also cause
> the sort of problem you are experiencing. Put the boat on the trailer &
> get it in the proper trailering
> position, i.e. bow hard up against the bow stop & the keel centered
> side-to-side between the keel guides. If the boat is not properly
> positioned on the trailer; then, using hydraulic jacks & blocks of wood,
> carefully move it around & get it in the right place. With the boat
> sitting in its proper position fore/aft & side-to-side on the trailer,
> sight in-between the hull & the bunks. There should be an even, tight
> fit all
> along the length of the bunks on both sides until you get to the last
> 6-12" of bunk in the front. The last 6-12" of bunk in the front should
> smoothly lift away from the hull until there is a gap of approximately
> 1" at the forward end. The aft end of the bunks should be in contact
> with the hull right to the end. The bunks should also contact roughly
> the same area down the length of the hull. If one of the bunks is
> hitting the hull too far inboard or outboard relative to the other bunk,
> it will cause the hull to sit cock-eyed on the trailer. This will put
> too much load on one of the bunks & cause the boat to be hard to move
> around on the trailer.
>
> With the boat properly positioned fore/aft & side-to-side on the
> trailer, the bunks properly adjusted, & the trailer sitting level on
> flat ground; try to move the keel rollers. If you can budge them even
> slightly, then too much of the boat's weight is resting on the bunks.
> If you can see any deformation in the hull where it is resting on the
> bunks &/or if you have any trouble opening & closing lockers & hatches
> in the cabin, this is also diagnostic of this problem. The sliding
> cabinet doors under the galley countertop are particularly sensitive to
> this problem.
> With the boat properly positioned on the trailer, loosen up the 4 bolts
> on each keel roller & slide the keel roller assembly up until it is in
> contact with the keel. Tighten up the 4 bolts. Mark the height of the
> keel roller assembly on the trailer. Do this with all the keel rollers
> (my trailer has 2 keel roller assemblies). Now put the boat in the
> water. Go back to each keel roller, loosen up the 4 bolts, slide each
> one up 3/4" relative to the marks you made earlier, & retighten the 4
> bolts. While you are working with the keel rollers & the boat is not on
> the trailer, check to be sure the keel rollers turn freely. If they
> don't turn freely, then grease the keel roller axles or replace as
> required.
>
> Now, try recovering the boat using the procedure I described in my
> earlier post & see if it's not a whole lot easier than before!
>
> Roger Pihlaja
> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rik Sandberg" <racerrik@rea-alp.com
> To: <rhodes-list@sailnet.net
> Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 10:19 AM
> Subject: RE: [rhodes-list] Fairing a gouge
> Rummy and Roger,
> Thanks for your replies.
>
> These gouges are below the boot stripe, where the hull is bottom
> painted. Provided I can figure out what kind of bottom paint I have,
> color matching is not an issue. I wonder if Stan would have a record of
> what product they used when they recycled her?
>
> I think the West epoxy with colloidal silica will be my product choice.
> One of these gouges is way more than a gel coat scratch. I will want to
> make this as strong and abrasion resistant as possible. Then if (when
> :-)?) there are future mishaps, those spots, at least, may be better
> able to take some punishment.
>
> Roger, I don't doubt that your loading plan works very well for you.
> But, I am curious, is it possible that your bottom paint is perhaps a
> lot slicker than mine? I find that I am not able to pull my boat up
> with that much bunk showing, even with the winch. I have switched to a
> 2 speed 2000# winch and have cranked until I fear for both the strap
> and/or the winch stand. And, I have tried the panic stop deal several
> times, not necessarily intentionally, and have never had the boat move
> at all. Well, one time it did move a little. When I was trying out a
> new (to me) pickup, unbeknownst to us, the DPO had wired the trailer
> brakes directly to the stop light switch, Allowing the full 12 volts to
> the trailer brakes, whenever the brake lights were on. We didn't really
> notice it at first, since the trailer had been sitting for quite a
> while and it seems the brakes don't really start working well until
> they have been applied a few times. But once they were broken in again?
> Whoa, we had some serious stopping power whether we wanted it or not.
> Anyway, even under these radical conditions, the boat only moved about
> an inch.
> I have heard recently about a product called Bunk Rollers, or some
> such. It comes in an aerosol can and you spray it on your bunks. I
> checked and it Is available at West Marine. The only thing that worries
> me here, is that I don't want to make the bunks so slippery that the
> boat wiggles all over the place on the road. Someone on the TSBB who
> tried it, said his boat actually unloaded itself while backing down a
> launch ramp, before the stern was even in the water. He, of course,
> wasn't expecting this stuff to work "this
> well" and had disconnected his winch strap before backing down the
> ramp.
> Fortunately, there was no damage, except to his pride. Has anybody else
> tried this stuff???
>
> Rik Sandberg
> S/V Country Rhodes
> Long Prairie, MN
>
> Most things significant in life, are small and slow.
>
> Subject: Re: [rhodes-list] Fairing a gouge
> I have used the "Marine-Tex" epoxy putty for fairing out little gouges.
> The color is a pretty close match to my topsides. I've also used WEST
> epoxy thickened with their colloidal silica & tinted with TiO2 pigment
> paste. Matching the color is the most difficult part.
>
> It sounds to me like you are putting your trailer too deeply into the
> water. I always leave the front of the bunks exposed. This serves both
> as a trailer depth gauge & as a target to put your bow in-between.
> With the trailer at the proper depth, the margin for error on bow
> placement is +/- a couple of feet, not a couple of inches.
>
> Enclosed is a copy of a previous post re the subject of putting the boat
> on the trailer. Hope it helps.
> Roger Pihlaja
> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> ________________________________________________________________________
> _
> >From your descriptions of your boat recovery problems, it sounds like
> you
> are both doing something wrong. I can recover Dynamic Equilibrium
> single-handed if necessary.
>
> The amount of trailer bunk left exposed out of the water is the key:
> Shallow slope on launch ramp, little or no cross wind/current, calm
> sea:12"
> Add 2" more exposed bunk for each condition:
> steep launch ramp
> cross wind 10 knots
> cross current 2 knots
> waves 1-3'
>
> Thus, a situation with all of the above conditions would call for 12 +
> 8=20" of exposed bunk.
>
> If there are waves 3', the recovery will be difficult at best. Leave
> about 24" of bunk exposed. It helps to have a couple of helpers with
> stern lines in this situation.
>
> Note: Your boat & trailer may behave slightly different than mine, but
> the
> concepts & conditions to look for will be the same.
>
> Use the exposed trailer bunks as your target. Approach the trailer at
> a
> slow walking speed, about 2 knots. Note: This is faster than dead
> slow. You need a little momentum for this maneuver.
> Note: This is no time to be timid!
> Center the bow in-between the exposed bunks. Your momentum will carry
> you up onto the exposed bunks, slow you down, & the bow will come to
> rest against the bow stop. If you are slightly off center, the
> funnelling keel guides on the trailer will automatically move back the
> boat on center if the trailer depth is set as described above. As
> long as you place the bow in-between the 2 exposed bunks, the trailer's
> keel guides should have you centered up by the time the bow gets to the
> trailer's bow stop.
>
> Note: Hang onto something! This trailer centering action happens very
> abruptly & can throw you off your feet.
>
> If the stern of the boat wants to drift sideways in either direction,
> then you didn't leave a sufficient amount of trailer bunks exposed.
> Rather than try to play out a bad situation, put the engine in reverse,
> back off the trailer, adjust the trailer position, & try again.
> Now, leave the engine idling in gear, lock the tiller in center
> position, & disconnect the gas line from the engine. If there is a
> strong cross wind/cross current, then turn the engine slightly so the
> thrust offsets
> the wind/current. Quickly walk to the bow, step off onto the trailer
> (here a welded-on platform might be nice), hook up the bow eye to the
> trailer winch, & winch in the slack. The boat will not have to be
> winched in very far. As waves tend to lift the stern, the thrust from
> the motor will push the boat
> forward, "taking up the slack".
>
> Note: Keep your body pieces/parts out of the way of the boat & winch
> during this operation!
>
> Eventually, the motor will use up all the gas in the carburetor &
> stall. Lock the winch & install a secondary restraining device on the
> bow eye. I have a permanently mounted nylon strap with a hook that I
> use as a secondary restraining device to hold the boat against the bow
> roller if the winch should fail. Now, get into your tow vehicle, pull
> the boat trailer up the launch ramp, & drive immediately to the
> derigging area. If the boat is not centered on the trailer, then push
> hard from either side at the stern You will find that the boat can be
> rocked back on center. If the boat is not all the way up on the
> trailer, then accelerate your car up to about 10 MPH in a straight line
> & SLAM on the brakes. After you are stopped, walk back to the boat &
> winch in the slack. Repeat as necessary. These adjustments should be
> done as soon as you get the boat up on level ground. Do not allow the
> hull & trailer bunks to dry out or you will not be able to move the
> boat on the trailer. With everything wet & slippery, these manuevers
> don't harm a
> thing.
>
> I usually don't attempt to balance on the trailer tongue while I'm
> Winching in the boat. It's too easy to slip & fall. I suppose a
> welded platform On the trailer tongue would be nice, but I still think
> you'd get wet feet.
> I'm not in the water more than a couple of minutes at most. I usually
> wear water shoes.
>
> My recovery procedure doesn't take any longer than any other 22' boat &
> I'm in & out faster than most, even single-handed.
>
> Roger Pihlaja
> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rik Sandberg" <racerrik@rea-alp.com
> To: <rhodes-list@sailnet.net
> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2001 6:21 PM
> Subject: [rhodes-list] Fairing a gouge
>
>
> All,
> I have discovered the beauty of driving my boat directly onto the
> trailer. Do not stop at the dock, do not collect $200. Unfortunately, I
> have also discovered that a little gust at the wrong moment or just
> missing the mark by a few inches, can put the bow on the outside of the
> keel guides of the trailer. To my chagrin, I found that there are a
> couple of brackets holding those guides up, that will make a nasty gouge
> in your bow if you are inept enough to get into this situation. Now I
> have to learn how to fair these gouges, which brings me to this
> question. What is the best material and additives for this purpose?
> Don't know for sure what kind of resin was used when the hull was built,
> but I'm sure there is a Rhodie or two out there who does and has been
> here before. Any and all education will be cheerfully accepted. Right
> after I get done fairing the boat, I will also "fair" the brackets on
> the keel guides. Don't need to do this twice.
>
> Rik Sandberg
>
>
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