[Rhodes22-list] Bill's reply Russell's upright problem
Todd Tavares
sprocket80 at mail.com
Mon Aug 9 18:43:58 EDT 2004
No Bill, I want YOU to solve Russ's problem. (you......always with
the problems and never the solutions...geez)
Stan may be an engineer, but I would never suggest he is slow to catch
on.....to anything.
Again you are so quick to judge motives that you fail to see the
message. (or the pun) Stan quips about having to stop losing money
(making and recycling boats) to solve minor problems like this. It
seems from Russ's eariler post that Stan and Elton are already working
on the solution. We were being inquisitive about the problem Russ had
adapting the R22 system to the S-26. Does he want the 3/4" block
bolted to his cabin top? Is the crane pole too short to get enough
leverage? Is the cabin top strong enough to handle the stress? Is
there a port or hatch in the critical spot?
Comments like yours are the exact reason I made no suggestions
about the retracting keel over running problems these guys with new
S-26's were having. I have ideas, and a box full of brand new
industrial quality micro-switches just taking up space in my garage.
Russ could certainly buy the system that Hake Yacht sells. He
could even buy it through GB's Seaward Division :-)
That way there it will be the correct system, Stan will get the
mark-up and at the very least, you Bill will be satisfied. Raising a
28ft? mast is not rocket science like say.....copying other people's
quotes and putting them into a book, and then lecturing everyone about
stealing intellectual property ;-D There are only so many ways to
employ a crane pole, gin pole, or wooden A-frame to raise a sailboat
mast, so anyone that tries on their own to raise a mast is going to be
copying someone elses "system".
But let me get this straight......your main gripe is that someone
will copy the GB system without paying Stan for his intellectual
property, and then blame or sue GB when they have an incident with
damage or injury? So the converse of your supposition must also be
true, if I buy and use the GB system, GB will then accept all
liability of any damage caused by a failure or accident while using
their system. If you get Stan to agree to that.....then I would shell
out the money for the proprietory unit and stop making my DIY
suggestions. But you'd also have to talk Stan into taking my money
first.
All in fun,
Todd
----- Original Message -----
From: "ed kroposki"
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 11:24:25 -0400
To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'"
Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Bill's reply Russell's upright problem
>
>
> Bill:
>
>
>
> Russ has a problem, and I put it to the list for suggestions as food
> for thought. I guess that you have not noticed that Todd is
technically
> astute. More importantly, he is very knowledgeable in making things
go up
> and down. His reply was on point and relevant. The message was to
get
> ideas that explored the problem.
>
> You threw the problem back to Stan without any positive or creative
> solutions offered. In problem solving there is the concept of 'brain
> storming' wherein a problem is presented and any solution is
accepted as a
> maybe. The intent here was to generate ideas, food for thought on
Russ's
> problem. Maybe somebody knows of or saw a potential solution in
another
> situation and that was all that was asked.
>
> Recently we learned that you write with a silver tipped pen. Maybe
you
> could get with Russ and get all the details of the problem he
encountered.
> Then Bill Effros the writer, professionally describe the problem so
that
> everybody fully understands and can offer solutions. If there is
already
> the correct and safe solution available, then Russ can order one.
>
> :-)
>
>
>
> Ed K
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf of Bill Effros
> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 8:06 AM
> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Russell's upright problem
>
> < BR>>
> Todd,
>
>
>
> I've used both the Mac system and the R-22 system, and the R-22
system is
> better. The factor is the intellectual property aspect.
>
>
>
> There is no trick to raising masts when nothing goes wrong. A number
of
> people on the list have advocated a simple wooden A-Frame
alternative
> costing a fraction of the Mac crane pole. Sooner or later these
people
> always have incidents like what Russ must have encountered.
Something goes
> wrong. Someone could have been, or was, hurt.
>
>
>
> Stan is an engineer. Russ isn't. You want Stan to solve Russ's
problem,
> and then for Russ, instead of paying Stan, to have someone else
simply copy
> Stan's solution. Once Stan understands that people have no intention
of
> paying him for his work, he's going to stop doing that work for
those
> people. Lucky for us, S tan has been slow to catch on. He's an
engineer, he
> likes to solve problems.
>
>
>
> Last night on 60 Minutes there was a rerun about the Chinese
stealing
> American intellectual property with Americans whining about the cost
of this
> theft. It was funny to hear the golf club guys talk about how
similar the
> $275 Chinese knock-off looked and played compared to the $3,000
original.
> It was less funny to learn that 1000s of Chinese babies had died
from milk
> formula that looked like the American product, but contained no
nutrients.
> Or that 1000s of adults had died from taking Chinese medicines that
had no
> active ingredients.
>
>
>
> People have come on this list to rip Stan's mast raising system for
being
> dangerous and poorly made only to discover that the inexpensive
system they
> were using was not Stan's at all.
>
>
>
> This concept is hard to explain, and the ramifications of this kind
of
> stealing are difficult to absorb. I previously explained how I, as a
> younger man, figured out how to rip off the telephone company, and
saw
> nothing wrong about it at the time. It's something many of us have
done.
>
>
>
> But if people who know better don't challenge this notion whenever
it comes
> up, it weakens us all as a nation.
>
>
>
> Of course, you can always just hit the delete key, but apparently
you don't.
>
>
>
> And for that I thank you,
>
>
>
> Bill
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Todd Tavares
>
> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>
> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 1:19 AM
>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Russell's upright problem < BR>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Ed,
>
>
>
> I hate to bring up the name MacGregor, but they have a system that
uses a
> crane pole with a brake winch on top, very much like the GB crane
pole. It
> appears (I have not seen the system up close) to pivot on a
horizontal bolt
> on extended side tangs on the mast base bracket. An alternative to
the
> block mounted on the cabin top. The best part is that Mac sells the
crane
> pole with winch for $98.00
>
>
>
> What's wrong with an R22 system mounted on the S-26? Maybe a beefier
and
> longer crane pole would help? Although the mast is a few taller, it
can't
> weigh much than a R22 with the IMF....can it???
>
>
>
> From the websites....it seems that Hake sells a mast raising system
as an
> option for only $400. Maybe Russ can make himself a "similar" system
> without stealing their intellectual property.
>
> We wouldn't to get Bill's panties in a bunch again. :-)
>
>
>
> Can Russ tell us what are the difficulties in adapting the GB Rhodes
22
> system to the S-26? Russ?
>
>
>
> Todd
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "ed kroposki"
>
> Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 21:24:03 -0400
>
> To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'"
>
> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Russell's upright problem
>
>
>
>
>
> Russ:
>
>
>
> Ask Stan if any other boat uses an on boat hoist or do they all use
trailer
> mounted systems, al la Com Pac. Let us see, how about a hot air
balloon with
> remote control? Maybe a bigger boat with a counter weighted crane.
>
>
>
> How many side stays does the boat have? Six? That is what makes the
R22
> work. Maybe you need to add some Stays or change the locations, at
least
> while raising and lower the mast.
>
>
>
> Where is Roger when you need mechanical advantage? Dual Gin poles?
> Bilateral or dual pulling lines? That is a single winch with two
four-foot
> arms that pull from the outside? Single winch with two arms with
turning
> blocks to get balanced dual outside pull? Two horizontal gin poles?
>
>
>
> Jerry, Slim and Todd we need to get Russell an on-boat mast crane.
Throw
> some wood on the fire. Stan has boats to make; we need to give the
maestro a
> workable idea.
>
>
>
> Ed K
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>
> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Russell
>
> Miller
>
> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 6:55 PM
>
> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Introduction---recycled in near future
>
>
>
> Boat is in a slip, no trailer yet but the hoist system is ala R22,
butdesign
> does not exactly work with the 26. Elton & Stan are aware and are
working
> the problem, alaw, a wolution.
>
>
>
> Russ
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
>
> From: "ed kroposki"
>
>
>
>
>
> Russell:
>
>
>
> Obviously, it is not a Stan design on the mast crane. Is it on the
boat or
> trailer?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> So you are going to be without any boat at Hilton Head?
>
>
>
> Unfortunately, Lake Hartwel l is about 5 hours away. It has been
interesting
> this year.
>
>
>
> There are supposed to be other R22's on the lake. I am out at least
once a
> week, often mor e lately, never seen them. The last few weeks, the
most
> sailboats I see are 4 or 5.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> If I drag my boat to the sea, I want to go near Georgetown. Do you
know
> anything about that area?
>
> Ed K
>
> Greenville, SC, USA
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
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