[Rhodes22-list] Bill's reply Russell's upright problem
Michael Meltzer
mjm at michaelmeltzer.com
Tue Aug 10 00:10:01 EDT 2004
I take the help, would love to put a "height limiter" on the raising system, something that stops the up. no mantance, and KISS
simple, I even offer beer while you look it over, a man has to be paid for this intellectual property .\
MJM
----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd Tavares" <sprocket80 at mail.com>
To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 6:43 PM
Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Bill's reply Russell's upright problem
>
>
> No Bill, I want YOU to solve Russ's problem. (you......always with
> the problems and never the solutions...geez)
>
> Stan may be an engineer, but I would never suggest he is slow to catch
> on.....to anything.
>
> Again you are so quick to judge motives that you fail to see the
> message. (or the pun) Stan quips about having to stop losing money
> (making and recycling boats) to solve minor problems like this. It
> seems from Russ's eariler post that Stan and Elton are already working
> on the solution. We were being inquisitive about the problem Russ had
> adapting the R22 system to the S-26. Does he want the 3/4" block
> bolted to his cabin top? Is the crane pole too short to get enough
> leverage? Is the cabin top strong enough to handle the stress? Is
> there a port or hatch in the critical spot?
>
> Comments like yours are the exact reason I made no suggestions
> about the retracting keel over running problems these guys with new
> S-26's were having. I have ideas, and a box full of brand new
> industrial quality micro-switches just taking up space in my garage.
>
> Russ could certainly buy the system that Hake Yacht sells. He
> could even buy it through GB's Seaward Division :-)
>
> That way there it will be the correct system, Stan will get the
> mark-up and at the very least, you Bill will be satisfied. Raising a
> 28ft? mast is not rocket science like say.....copying other people's
> quotes and putting them into a book, and then lecturing everyone about
> stealing intellectual property ;-D There are only so many ways to
> employ a crane pole, gin pole, or wooden A-frame to raise a sailboat
> mast, so anyone that tries on their own to raise a mast is going to be
> copying someone elses "system".
>
> But let me get this straight......your main gripe is that someone
> will copy the GB system without paying Stan for his intellectual
> property, and then blame or sue GB when they have an incident with
> damage or injury? So the converse of your supposition must also be
> true, if I buy and use the GB system, GB will then accept all
> liability of any damage caused by a failure or accident while using
> their system. If you get Stan to agree to that.....then I would shell
> out the money for the proprietory unit and stop making my DIY
> suggestions. But you'd also have to talk Stan into taking my money
> first.
>
> All in fun,
>
> Todd
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "ed kroposki"
> Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 11:24:25 -0400
> To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'"
> Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Bill's reply Russell's upright problem
> >
> >
> > Bill:
> >
> >
> >
> > Russ has a problem, and I put it to the list for suggestions as food
> > for thought. I guess that you have not noticed that Todd is
> technically
> > astute. More importantly, he is very knowledgeable in making things
> go up
> > and down. His reply was on point and relevant. The message was to
> get
> > ideas that explored the problem.
> >
> > You threw the problem back to Stan without any positive or creative
> > solutions offered. In problem solving there is the concept of 'brain
> > storming' wherein a problem is presented and any solution is
> accepted as a
> > maybe. The intent here was to generate ideas, food for thought on
> Russ's
> > problem. Maybe somebody knows of or saw a potential solution in
> another
> > situation and that was all that was asked.
> >
> > Recently we learned that you write with a silver tipped pen. Maybe
> you
> > could get with Russ and get all the details of the problem he
> encountered.
> > Then Bill Effros the writer, professionally describe the problem so
> that
> > everybody fully understands and can offer solutions. If there is
> already
> > the correct and safe solution available, then Russ can order one.
> >
> > :-)
> >
> >
> >
> > Ed K
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf of Bill Effros
> > Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 8:06 AM
> > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Russell's upright problem
> >
> > < BR>>
> > Todd,
> >
> >
> >
> > I've used both the Mac system and the R-22 system, and the R-22
> system is
> > better. The factor is the intellectual property aspect.
> >
> >
> >
> > There is no trick to raising masts when nothing goes wrong. A number
> of
> > people on the list have advocated a simple wooden A-Frame
> alternative
> > costing a fraction of the Mac crane pole. Sooner or later these
> people
> > always have incidents like what Russ must have encountered.
> Something goes
> > wrong. Someone could have been, or was, hurt.
> >
> >
> >
> > Stan is an engineer. Russ isn't. You want Stan to solve Russ's
> problem,
> > and then for Russ, instead of paying Stan, to have someone else
> simply copy
> > Stan's solution. Once Stan understands that people have no intention
> of
> > paying him for his work, he's going to stop doing that work for
> those
> > people. Lucky for us, S tan has been slow to catch on. He's an
> engineer, he
> > likes to solve problems.
> >
> >
> >
> > Last night on 60 Minutes there was a rerun about the Chinese
> stealing
> > American intellectual property with Americans whining about the cost
> of this
> > theft. It was funny to hear the golf club guys talk about how
> similar the
> > $275 Chinese knock-off looked and played compared to the $3,000
> original.
> > It was less funny to learn that 1000s of Chinese babies had died
> from milk
> > formula that looked like the American product, but contained no
> nutrients.
> > Or that 1000s of adults had died from taking Chinese medicines that
> had no
> > active ingredients.
> >
> >
> >
> > People have come on this list to rip Stan's mast raising system for
> being
> > dangerous and poorly made only to discover that the inexpensive
> system they
> > were using was not Stan's at all.
> >
> >
> >
> > This concept is hard to explain, and the ramifications of this kind
> of
> > stealing are difficult to absorb. I previously explained how I, as a
> > younger man, figured out how to rip off the telephone company, and
> saw
> > nothing wrong about it at the time. It's something many of us have
> done.
> >
> >
> >
> > But if people who know better don't challenge this notion whenever
> it comes
> > up, it weakens us all as a nation.
> >
> >
> >
> > Of course, you can always just hit the delete key, but apparently
> you don't.
> >
> >
> >
> > And for that I thank you,
> >
> >
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: Todd Tavares
> >
> > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> >
> > Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 1:19 AM
> >
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Russell's upright problem < BR>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Ed,
> >
> >
> >
> > I hate to bring up the name MacGregor, but they have a system that
> uses a
> > crane pole with a brake winch on top, very much like the GB crane
> pole. It
> > appears (I have not seen the system up close) to pivot on a
> horizontal bolt
> > on extended side tangs on the mast base bracket. An alternative to
> the
> > block mounted on the cabin top. The best part is that Mac sells the
> crane
> > pole with winch for $98.00
> >
> >
> >
> > What's wrong with an R22 system mounted on the S-26? Maybe a beefier
> and
> > longer crane pole would help? Although the mast is a few taller, it
> can't
> > weigh much than a R22 with the IMF....can it???
> >
> >
> >
> > From the websites....it seems that Hake sells a mast raising system
> as an
> > option for only $400. Maybe Russ can make himself a "similar" system
> > without stealing their intellectual property.
> >
> > We wouldn't to get Bill's panties in a bunch again. :-)
> >
> >
> >
> > Can Russ tell us what are the difficulties in adapting the GB Rhodes
> 22
> > system to the S-26? Russ?
> >
> >
> >
> > Todd
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: "ed kroposki"
> >
> > Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 21:24:03 -0400
> >
> > To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'"
> >
> > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Russell's upright problem
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Russ:
> >
> >
> >
> > Ask Stan if any other boat uses an on boat hoist or do they all use
> trailer
> > mounted systems, al la Com Pac. Let us see, how about a hot air
> balloon with
> > remote control? Maybe a bigger boat with a counter weighted crane.
> >
> >
> >
> > How many side stays does the boat have? Six? That is what makes the
> R22
> > work. Maybe you need to add some Stays or change the locations, at
> least
> > while raising and lower the mast.
> >
> >
> >
> > Where is Roger when you need mechanical advantage? Dual Gin poles?
> > Bilateral or dual pulling lines? That is a single winch with two
> four-foot
> > arms that pull from the outside? Single winch with two arms with
> turning
> > blocks to get balanced dual outside pull? Two horizontal gin poles?
> >
> >
> >
> > Jerry, Slim and Todd we need to get Russell an on-boat mast crane.
> Throw
> > some wood on the fire. Stan has boats to make; we need to give the
> maestro a
> > workable idea.
> >
> >
> >
> > Ed K
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
> > From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> >
> > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Russell
> >
> > Miller
> >
> > Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 6:55 PM
> >
> > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> >
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Introduction---recycled in near future
> >
> >
> >
> > Boat is in a slip, no trailer yet but the hoist system is ala R22,
> butdesign
> > does not exactly work with the 26. Elton & Stan are aware and are
> working
> > the problem, alaw, a wolution.
> >
> >
> >
> > Russ
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> >
> >
> > From: "ed kroposki"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Russell:
> >
> >
> >
> > Obviously, it is not a Stan design on the mast crane. Is it on the
> boat or
> > trailer?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > So you are going to be without any boat at Hilton Head?
> >
> >
> >
> > Unfortunately, Lake Hartwel l is about 5 hours away. It has been
> interesting
> > this year.
> >
> >
> >
> > There are supposed to be other R22's on the lake. I am out at least
> once a
> > week, often mor e lately, never seen them. The last few weeks, the
> most
> > sailboats I see are 4 or 5.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > If I drag my boat to the sea, I want to go near Georgetown. Do you
> know
> > anything about that area?
> >
> > Ed K
> >
> > Greenville, SC, USA
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> --
>
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