[Rhodes22-list] My Centerboard delamination

Lou Rosenberg lsr3 at MAIL.nyu.edu
Thu Dec 9 19:33:06 EST 2004


>Lou, Roger,


Todd,
  That is exactly what I have also there is no gelcoat on my board or 
my rudder I believe.
  Lou

>    My c/b from the 1974 didn't (appear to) have any gelcoat on it 
>either, but I am not sure.  When I sanded the c/b with a palm sander 
>using fine grit (150?) paper to remove the the this layer of old 
>powdery bottom paint, the board looked like amber epoxy with large 
>fibers embedded just below the surface.
>
>Todd 
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Lou Rosenberg" <lsr3 at MAIL.nyu.edu>
>To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] My Centerboard delamination
>Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 16:34:31 -0500
>
>>
>>  > Lou,
>>
>>
>>    Roger,
>>    Trust me -there is not an inch of gelcoat on that board or  my
>>  rudder for that matter!
>>     I have seen Catalina CBs and rudders and they do have gelcoat. 
>>  But this baby was really neglected and she might have once had some
>>  but someone stripped it off years ago.   That is paint caked on..
>>  When I took my sander to it , it came off easily and will finish
>>  soon .  Btw;
>>    I  will try to post my mounts next to the mounts I found when I
>>  pulled off the cap.. two worlds apart! In fact I cannot see how the
>>  previous owner sailed the boat with the board blocks as
>>  dysfunctional as they were when I found it.
>>    Still working on the mounts almost done but this is not  a game
>>  of horse shoes so almost is "not ready yet!'
>>
>>  and..
>>    When this boat goes back into the water I am going to hire a good
>>  jazz band to play , and surprise all the marina folks!  i played
>>  trombone for a living and still have some brass fiends who can
>>  swing!
>>  Lou
>>  >
>>  > No gelcoat on your centerboard you say?  Quack?
>>  >
>>  > I took another look at your photos.  Man, if that's not gelcoat; 
>>then, it's
>>  > some of the thickest bottom paint I've ever seen!  It's hard to 
>>believe that
>>  > any boat builder would build an underwater part like a centerboard & just
>>  > paint over the raw FRP laminate.  However it got that way, 
>>assuming you are
>>  > correct & that delaminating layer is really old bottom paint; 
>>then, I would
>>  > strip all the bottom paint off your centerboard down to the raw FRP
>>  > laminate.  Fix any cracks or delaminations in the FRP laminate.  Then, I
>>  > would put down an unthickened epoxy tie layer, 20 mils of epoxy with West
>>  > 422 Barrier Coat additive, and a couple coats of bottom paint.
>>  >
>>  > By the way, if you really don't have any gelcoat on your 
>>centerboard; then,
>>  > you should consider doing some dimensional comparisons with your rudder
>>  > blade.  With no gelcoat, the FRP laminate in the centerboard may 
>>be swollen
>>  > due to water absorbsion &/or freeze/thaw cycles.  This could be another
>>  > reason for the interference fit in your centerboard well.
>>  >
>>  > Roger Pihlaja
>>  > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>>  >
>>  > ----- Original Message -----
>>  > From: "Lou Rosenberg" <lsr3 at MAIL.nyu.edu>
>>  > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>  > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 2:27 PM
>>  > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] My Centerboard delamination
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >>  >  Roger,
>>  >>
>>  >>    I may be missing something here but my CB does not have any gelcoat
>>  >>  on it at all.
>>  >>    It was obvious to me that if it was there originally, it came off or
>>  >>  was removed and the board was sanded down to the glass mat and
>>  >>  painted with bottom paint.  I was referring to sanding this cracked
>>  >>  and heavily layered section down to the glass and then painting it
>>  >>  with bottom paint.
>>  >>    Indeed , an new board would most likely have been gelcoated but I am
>>  >>  not planning on doing that to this board at this time.
>>  >>    Lou
>>  >>
>>  >>
>>  >>
>>  >>
>>  >>
>>  >>
>>  >>
>>  >>
>>  >> 
>>http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attch/200412/07/CB_flaking_
>>  > n
>>  >>  >ear_pivot__st_1.jpg
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  >looks like a brittle compression failure of the gel coat to me.  This
>>  > damage
>  > >>  >was probably done over a relatively short period of time.  I 
>would guess,
>>  > as
>>  >>  >the centerboard was starting to jam, you &/or the previous 
>>owner tried to
>>  >>  >force the centerboard into & out of the centerboard well.  Does the
>>  > location
>>  >>  >of this damage correspond to a location in the centerboard well where
>>  > there
>>  >>  >is a lot of bulging?  You will have to remove the failed gel coat back
>>  > from
>>  >>  >the failure site to where the bond with the FRP laminate is sound.  The
>>  > gel
>>  >>  >coat will have to be faired out.  Then, you will build the 
>>gel coat back
>>  > up
>>  >>  >to the original level with thickened epoxy.  Don't forget to use an
>>  >>  >unthickened epoxy "tie layer" as I've previously described.  One of the
>>  > nice
>>  >>  >MOC properties of epoxy is that it is a much more ductile 
>>material & has
>>  > a
>>  >>  >higher bulk modulus vs. the polyester gel coat on the centerboard now.
>>  > The
>>  >>  >epoxy repair will be MUCH less likely to suffer the same sort 
>>of brittle
>>  >  > >compression failure.  In fact, I'll make a fearless 
>>prediction & tell you
>>  >>  >that, as long as you properly prep the surface & use a "tie layer", the
>>  >>  >centerboard gel coat will fail somewhere else before the epoxy repair
>>  > fails.
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  >I see at least 3 kinds of damage in:
>>  >>  >
>>  >>
>>  >> 
>>http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attch/200412/07/CB_lower_le
>>  > a
>>  >>  >ding_edge.jpg
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  >There is long term abrasive wear on the flanks of the centerboard.  The
>>  >>  >elliptically shaped dent on the leading edge looks like a ductile
>>  > failure,
>>  >>  >"impact crater".  I also see what looks like a delamination crack
>>  > emanating
>>  >>  >from the elliptical dent. (i.e. the elliptical dent was probably the
>>  > crack
>>  >>  >initiation site)  Interestingly, although the elliptical dent is a
>>  > ductile
>>  >>  >failure, the crack is a type of brittle failure, so you have 
>>a mixed mode
>>  >>  >failure at this site.  I would guess the elliptical dent & delamination
>>  >>  >crack involved something on your trailer, perhaps the frame 
>>on one of the
>>  >
>>  >>  >centerboard rollers.  The irregular shaped gel coat failure near the
>>  >>  >elliptical dent looks like another brittle compression failure.  The
>>  >>  >compression failure may have been another result of the extreme
>>  > compression
>>  >>  >loading involving the tight centerboard/centerboard well fit.  It looks
>>  > like
>>  >>  >you may also have a delamination crack on the leading edge at the very
>>  >>  >bottom of the centerboard.  The abrasive wear pattern on the flanks of
>>  > the
>>  >>  >centerboard suggests that this delamination crack occurred because the
>>  > sides
>>  >>  >of the centerboard were getting squeezed.  This compression loading on
>>  > the
>>  >>  >flanks of the centerboard would have resulted in a high tensile stress
>>  >>  >(pulling apart) on the centerline of the leading edge radius.  This
>>  > tensile
>>  >>  >stress was relieved when the leading edge delaminated & 
>>cracked.  I would
>>  >>  >guess this crack is not very deep, probably not much below 
>>the gel coat.
>>  >>  >Previous posts have talked about how to repair delamination cracks with
>>  > slow
>>  >>  >curing epoxy.
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>>  >>
>>  >
>>  >
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