[Rhodes22-list]Garolite or wetted porous wood?

Lou Rosenberg steadilsr at verizon.net
Thu Dec 9 22:35:49 EST 2004 

Roger
  back to the plastic for lining btw the cement and the epoxy I will be 
putting over it:
  I want to consider just preparing a few pieces of thin wood, wetted 
out with epoxy and cured a day before inserting next to the cement 
instead of ordering the G 10 garolite.   This thin barrier is really 
just a way to key the epoxy layer(s) for the final wall of the trunk so 
why couldnt just a light crate type porous wood work here after being 
wetted out on both sides?
  Just trying to maximize my time here, but be honest if you think I 
would be wasting my time with a cheap quick fix with this kind of wood 
instead of waiting..  I am also near an industrial plastics place in 
Manhattan and wil ask about the special plastic that can key onto epoxy 
and keep its water protection for long periods of time.
   Lou

On Thursday, December 9, 2004, at 08:10 PM, Roger Pihlaja wrote:

> Lou,
>
> If the acetone (2-propanol) evaporates too quickly; then, you can use 
> methyl
> ethyl ketone (MEK) (2-butanol) as a thinning solvent.  The boiling 
> point of
> acetone is 56.2 deg C vs. 79.6 deg C for MEK.  So, MEK will evaporate 
> much
> more slowly than acetone.  However, be careful because MEK is 
> considerably
> more toxic than acetone.
>
> Roger Pihlaja
> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lou Rosenberg" <lsr3 at MAIL.nyu.edu>
> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 7:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] CB trunk Surgery - Roger's Recommended MOC
>
>
>>> Todd, Roger:
>>
>>
>> Roger,
>> One of  My first experiment w WS epoxies I tried using acetone to
>> lower viscosity and it does evap very quickly and of course creates
>> more flammable fumes besides the epoxy fumes.
>> thanks for that option.
>>   L
>>
>>>
>>> Funny you should ask.  I once had to do a project that involved spray
>>> coating an epoxy binder into a delicate nonwoven C-fiber batting.  
>>> The
>>> unthickened epoxy was too viscous to atomize in a 2-fluid spray 
>>> nozzle.
>>> However, it turns out that uncured West system epoxy & catalysts 
>>> (They
> are
>>> really epoxy products made by the Dow Chemical Co. - shhh, don't tell
>>> anyone!) are completely soluble in ketones like acetone or methyl 
>>> ethyl
>>> ketone (MEK).  If Lou is not getting good penetration into the 
>>> cement;
> then,
>>> he can thin out the uncured epoxy with acetone in practically any
> proportion
>>> he needs to get the viscosity low enough.  Warning, the acetone will 
>>> be
>>> evaporating during and after application & will create a REALLY 
>>> flammable
>>> vapor in the vicinity of the cement.  So, good ventillation will be 
>>> very
>>> critical in this operation.
>>>
>>> Roger Pihlaja
>>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Todd Tavares" <sprocket80 at mail.com>
>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 5:10 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] CB trunk Surgery - Roger's Recommended 
>>> MOC
>>>
>>>
>>>>  Roger,
>>>>
>>>>    Is there a way to thin a small amount of epoxy to brush onto the
> exposed
>>> cement first?
>>>>
>>>>  Todd
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>>  From: "Roger Pihlaja" <cen09402 at centurytel.net>
>>>>  To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>  Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] CB trunk Surgery - Roger's Recommended
> MOC
>>>>  Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 15:59:18 -0500
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve,
>>>>>
>>>>> MOC property = Material Of Construction property
>>>>>
>>>>> What I was refering to was to trowel in uncured 3M 5200 
>>>>> polyurethane
>>>>> adhesive directly over the cement.  The 3M 5200 would be the patch
> in
>>> this
>>>>> case.  Even cured, this material is no where near stiff enough for
> this
>>>>> application.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wouldn't use 3M 5200 to attach some other patch material to the
> cement
>>>>> either.  3M 5200 is too viscous to properly soak into the cement to
>>> develop
>>>>> a strong bond with it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I suggested using untickened epoxy as a tie layer with the cement.
> The
>>> low
>>>>> viscosity epoxy will soak into the porosity in the cement, creating
> a
>>> deep
>>>>> mechanical & chemical bond with the cement.
>>>>>
>>>>> Roger Pihlaja
>>>>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Steve" <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com>
>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 3:43 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] CB trunk Surgery - Roger's Recommended
> MOC
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Roger
>>>>>> 3-M 5200 polyurethane caulk to
>>>>>>> build up the patch as some
>>>>>>> others have suggested.  Polyurethane caulk has the
>>>>>>> wrong MOC properties for
>>>>>>> this application.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't get what you mean here.  I wasn't talking
>>>>>> about building up a patch with 3M 5200; 3M 5200 is the
>>>>>> patch if you when that route.  Also, what are you
>>>>>> talking about when you say MOC properties?
>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --- Roger Pihlaja <cen09402 at centurytel.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lou,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would use prefabricated G-10 sheets.  G-10 is a
>>>>>>> composite material made
>>>>>>> from oriented glass fiber & epoxy and it is very
>>>>>>> stiff.  You will be able to
>>>>>>> cut it with a saber saw to an exact fit into
>>>>>>> whatever size & shape the hole
>>>>>>> in your centerboard well ends up being.  You can
>>>>>>> order G-10 in panels as
>>>>>>> small as 12 inch X 12 inch up to as large as 36 inch
>>>>>>> X 48 inch in any
>>>>>>> thickness ranging from 1/32 inch to 2 inch.  Use an
>>>>>>> unthickened epoxy tie
>>>>>>> layer soaked into the cement and also on the cement
>>>>>>> side of the G-10 patch.
>>>>>>> Then, I would use a fiberglass tape laminated with
>>>>>>> epoxy to bridge the
>>>>>>> remaining gap between the G-10 patch and the old
>>>>>>> centerboard well.  The
>>>>>>> centerboard well side of the G-10 patch will still
>>>>>>> need the final coat of
>>>>>>> epoxy loaded up with West 422 Barrier Additive.
>>>>>>> G-10 sheets can be ordered
>>>>>>> from:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> McMaster-Carr Supply Company
>>>>>>> 473 Ridge Rd.
>>>>>>> Dayton, NJ  08810-0317
>>>>>>> 732-329-3200 (Sales)
>>>>>>> www.mcmaster.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tell them you want "Grade G-10/FR4 Garolite" in
>>>>>>> whatever sheet size &
>>>>>>> thickness you need.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Note, do not use 3-M 5200 polyurethane caulk to
>>>>>>> build up the patch as some
>>>>>>> others have suggested.  Polyurethane caulk has the
>>>>>>> wrong MOC properties for
>>>>>>> this application.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Roger Pihlaja
>>>>>>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Lou Rosenberg" <lsr3 at MAIL.nyu.edu>
>>>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
>>>>>>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:22 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] CB trunk surgery
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Roger,
>>>>>>>>    I purchase a small cutting disc for my dremel
>>>>>>> yesterday and hope to
>>>>>>>> begin the work on Sun.
>>>>>>>>    My plan is to:
>>>>>>>>     Remove the cement which is causing the bulge,
>>>>>>> then I will have to
>>>>>>>> insert a  thin plastic or metal piece to cover the
>>>>>>> cement as the
>>>>>>>> epoxy will not bond directly to the cement
>>>>>>> effectively.
>>>>>>>>   I will sand the thin plastic down for good
>>>>>>> adherance  quality and
>>>>>>>> hope to just fit it under snugly to the
>>>>>>> surrounding trunk.
>>>>>>>>   any comments/ suggestions??
>>>>>>>>   Lou
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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