[Rhodes22-list] Prosecuted homeowner blasts officials
Rik Sandberg
sanderico at earthlink.net
Sun Jan 25 09:52:31 EST 2004
Roger, Saroj and Bill,
Thank You Roger, you certainly said it better than I could have.
Saroj, I have to agree with CT on the weapons choice. A short (shortened) shot
gun is an incredibly effective short range weapon. Scary as hell for the guy
looking down the "business" end of it too. The scarier looking the better.
Also, but I'm no expert on this, I think there are less restrictions on
carrying a shotgun than a handgun. At least there are here. But this may vary
from place to place.
Another very real advantage to a shotgun is that since their effective range
is pretty short, there is much less chance of hurting or killing someone off
in the distance that you didn't intend to. With a hand gun or rifle, you
might unintentionally shoot someone a half mile to a mile away without even
realizing it.
Please understand though: If you are going to pull a gun on someone, you have
to be ready to use it, without hesitation. Be honest with yourself, Can you
truly kill another human being?? In all seriousness, this is a pretty hard
question. If you cannot, the fact that you have a gun might just turn an
unarmed criminal into an armed one when he takes your gun away from you. At
this point I'd have to believe you have just decreased your chances of
surviving an encounter with a criminal by having a gun. This is a question
only you can know the answer to.
BTW, Bill: I never said I owned a gun. I said I wished the people in the house
behind me had owned and used one. I do believe the defense of one's home
(boat falls into the home category) and family should be an absolute,
unquestionable right and anyone who wishes to have a gun for that purpose is
more than welcome to in my book. Frankly, I wish more people would own guns
and use them when needed for their own defense. You never have to worry about
a dead criminal being a "repeat offender". Nor, do you have to worry about
supporting his worthless ass while the justice system tries, usually
futilely, to rehabilitate him.
Rik
On 01/25/2004 08:01 am, Roger Pihlaja wrote:
> Bill,
>
> #1, pirates are known to frequently kill their victims so there are no
> witnesses. Therefore, Sir Peter Blake probably thought he had nothing to
> lose by attempting to defend himself.
>
> 2nd, the argrument re the 2nd amendment and government oppression is a
> theoretical one. Do you think that human nature has significantly changed
> since the late 18th century when the Bill of Rights was written? In only
> about 12 generations, have humans "evolved" into a better species. Or, is
> it more likely that humans in positions of governmental authority are just
> as greedy and power hungry as ever and the 2nd amendment has worked so well
> that folks like you are now willing to dismiss the original arguments for
> it as "tripe". Are you really that elitist and liberal or are you just
> incredibly naive? Good grief man! Open up your eyes and see the world the
> way it really is. Fortunately, we both live under a constitution where
> this discussion is possible. You may think my beliefs are tripe and I
> think you haven't got a clue, but I'll defend to the death your right to
> believe as you do.
>
> 3rd, I believe I stated my primary reason for keeping a gun loaded &
> readily accessible around the house was for home & family protection. As I
> stated above, the 2nd amendment has worked so well at curbing XS government
> oppression that the theory has not & I believe will not ever be tested as
> long as widespread gun ownership is permitted in the United States.
>
> Saroj,
>
> In the United States, keeping a gun on board while cruising would be
> considered carrying a concealed weapon. In most states, assuming you have
> no criminal record, it's not difficult to obtain a CCW permit. You would
> have to take a class and pass a test. The classes are frequently offered
> at shooting sports clubs and thru gun shops. The classes are very useful.
> They will teach you about gun safety, gun laws, and how to properly and
> safely shoot your gun.
>
> Legally cruising with a gun on board in other countries is much more
> problematic. Basically, there are a different set of rules whereever you
> go & the answer in most places is, "Not no way - Not no how!"
>
> If you are going to keep a gun on board in a salt water environment,
> consider getting a gun in stainless steel or titanium. For about 15-20%
> more money over blued carbon steel, many models of handguns are offered in
> corrosion resistant alloys.
>
> Roger Pihlaja
> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Alm" <salm at mn.rr.com>
> To: "Rhodes" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 5:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Prosecuted homeowner blasts officials
>
> > C'mon, Bill, go easy on the poor girl. I'd guess that something she
> > would want to defend on a 22 ft. boat would be her family. If Sir Peter
> > Blake
>
> had
>
> > known that they were only after trinkets and the dinghy, there might not
> > have been gunfire. Hindsight is 20-20. But you don't know what their
> > intentions are ahead of time. Certainly there is a time NOT to shoot and
> > that's where good solid training and education come into play.
> >
> > Slim
> >
> > On 1/24/04 4:11 PM, "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> > > Saroj,
> > >
> > > Don't do it the way Sir Peter Blake did it. When pirates boarded his
>
> boat
>
> > > anchored at the mouth of the Amazon he went for his gun, and they
> > > killed
>
> him.
>
> > > The other 9 crew members lived. The pirates took some watches and a
>
> dinghy.
>
> > > What possession could you possibly have on a 22 foot Rhodes sailboat
>
> that is
>
> > > worth your life?
> > >
> > > As I read this tripe, Roger says he needs his gun to protect himself
>
> from his
>
> > > own government; Rik needs his because he lives in a bad neighborhood;
>
> now you
>
> > > seem to fancy yourself as a middle aged female defender of the high
>
> seas.
>
> > > What's wrong with you?
> > >
> > > I can make a case for gun ownership, but you are making a very strong
>
> case
>
> > > against it.
> > >
> > > Bill Effros
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Saroj
> > > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 2:27 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Prosecuted homeowner blasts officials
> > >
> > >
> > > Hey folks,
> > >
> > > I would like to turn this conversation to ways and means of storing and
> > > using guns while cruising. We hope to do that extensively in the
> > > future. Want to know how to manage it.
> > >
> > > Saroj
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Robert Skinner" <robert at squirrelhaven.com>
> > > To: "Saroj" <saroj at pathfind.net>; "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 12:26 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Prosecuted homeowner blasts officials
> > >
> > >> Saroj wrote:
> > >>> I'm with you on this one...
> > >>> For myself, I'm planning to learn to shoot
> > >>> a hand gun, rifle and shotgun...
> > >>
> > >> May I offer a few words of advice?
> > >>
> > >> I'd start with a pump scatter gun with the
> > >> shortest legal barrel and pistol grip rather
> > >> than shoulder stock.
> > >>
> > >> Reasons?
> > >>
> > >> If you use a pump, the sound of the action is
> > >> generally enough to clear the area.
> > >>
> > >> The configuration of short barrel and pistol
> > >> grip looks quite ready for serious close
> > >> action business...
> > >>
> > >> The sight of a big hole in the end of a weapon
> > >> tends to reduce the chance of an argument.
> > >>
> > >> Shotguns (esp. short barrel) make a BIG noise.
> > >> Your warning shot cannot be mistaken for
> > >> a welcome. And other than some damage to
> > >> wallboard and siding, it is a cheap way
> > >> to prevent legal consequences.
> > >>
> > >> These factors may (hopefully) result in a
> > >> bloodless and rapid retreat of the intruder,
> > >> and no problems with paperwork and
> > >> bureaucrats after the fact.
> > >>
> > >> Otherwise:
> > >>
> > >> Shotgun requires least accuracy under pressure.
> > >> The decision to cause massive injury or
> > >> death in another human is stressful, if
> > >> not paralyzing. Anyone would tend to be
> > >> up tight defending their home.
> > >>
> > >> Small to medium size shot generally doesn't
> > >> penetrate walls and injure neighbors, etc.
> > >> Minimal collateral damage is a good thing.
> > >>
> > >> If you have trouble with the recoil from a 12
> > >> gauge, a 16 or 20 gauge also works. But
> > >> generally, the bigger, the better -- more
> > >> noise, bigger hole, and more pellets.
> > >>
> > >> In any case, congratulations on your decision to
> > >> undertake a citizen's responsibility to learn how
> > >> to exercise your rights.
> > >>
> > >> Very respectfully,
> > >> Robert Skinner
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >
> > __________________________________________________
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>
> __________________________________________________
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--
Rik Sandberg
Long Prairie, MN
S/V Happy Little Girls 2
Pacific Seacraft Flicka
All things significant are small and slow
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