[Rhodes22-list]reply to comment on mast hoist on Rhodes 22

Thu Jul 1 18:20:38 EDT 2004

Ummm... one thing I left out is the mast crutch!  I don't think you're going
to be able to make THAT very compact (well, unless you have Roger's!).  I
suppose it could be designed to collapse and fold, but at that point I think
you may be better off with a different boat.  It seems that if you need a
portable mast hoist that much, your needs are just diverging a bit too much
from where the R22 is.  

Sounds like Menger time...

--Doug

-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]On Behalf Of Gardner, Douglas
(LNG-DAY)
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 5:14 PM
To: 'The Rhodes 22 mail list'
Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list]reply to comment on mast hoist on Rhodes 22

Hi Ed, 

    Yeah, but I'm willing to cut him some slack, for now.  People on most
discussion groups are still used to using aliases rather than signing their
real name.  Comes from the open nature of most of the lists.  He probably
doesn't realize yet that we're still relatively protected here (less so than
in the past, when we had no online archive?), and that we have a strong norm
for traditional politeness, which includes identification. (So, Nic, or
Vic... you might note that we like to know who we're talking to.  So please
introduce yourself.  Who are you?  What do you sail?  etc.)

   Still, Ed, you're correct about the fact that you really need to see the
system operate to appreciate it.  For example, it isn't clear from the
picture that the GB pole is aluminum and actually pretty light.  Still, Vic
or Nic is right that it could probably be made more compact.  When you only
use the thing a couple of times a year and don't keep it on the boat, there
is less need to engineer it to be storable than if you use it every time you
go out!  

A couple of thoughts on how that might be done:
The big heavy thing on this is the winch.  So, if you could use the trailer
winch, you could eliminate that. All you'd need to do is redirect the path
to go over the bow and then lead toward the deck cleat so that your geometry
is correct (the pole goes down to the cleat).  A bow roller and block looped
over the cleat could take care of that. The problem is, if you use the
trailer winch, you'd only be able to use the crane on the trailer.  Wouldn't
help for bridges.  Frankly, I don't think I'd trust the boat winches to do
it.  One slip and someone gets hurt, so that isn't really an option, in my
opinion. 

The other issue with the bulkiness is the size of the pole.  I'd be
uncomfortable using a collapsible pole, so I think you're stuck with the
length.  

My take on it is that I think you could design the system to be more compact
and still maintain its strength.  I don't have the answer to it, though. 

If you really needed to carry it on the boat, you could probably rig up an
under-seat mount for it.  Not particularly convenient, though.  I think the
real answer if you need to frequently rig-derig is to use a standard rig
instead of IMF or buy a catboat.

Just my 2 cents.  ;^)

--Doug G
S/V Fretnaught

-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]On Behalf Of ed kroposki
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 4:50 PM
To: 'The Rhodes 22 mail list'
Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list]reply to comment on mast hoist on Rhodes 22

Doug:

Have you noticed that this guy (?) be it nick (?), Vic (?), mike (?) who
refuses to sign and then calls the crane system bulky when he has never seen
or used it.  He comes from the middle of Minnesota and someone in that part
of the country needs to invite him to see the boat and mast hoist system.
He needs to touch it so he understands what is involved.

Ed K

-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Gardner, Douglas
(LNG-DAY)
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 2:04 PM
To: 'The Rhodes 22 mail list'
Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] raising mast on Rhodes 22

FWIW, 

This GB system uses the lower shrouds to raise the mast, and the upper
shrouds and other set of lower shrouds to stabilize it. (Is that what you
mean when you talk about the "mini stays?")

The system is sized to raise the IMF mast, which is much heavier than the
standard mast.  Not only is the extrusion much larger, but the main and
genoa are both raised with the mast.  I haven't weighed it, but my guess is
that the load is at least double what you would have if you raised a
standard mast alone.

So... I'd caution against using a much lighter system to raise an IMF mast
without doing the engineering to make sure you don't overload any component.
If you are raising a standard mast... well, let's just say I've seen a lot
of folks with 25' boats do it by having their wives pull on the jib halyard
from in front of the boat while they step it by hand.

Now, the system could probably be redesigned to be less bulky and still be
as strong.  Sounds like an interesting project.

-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]On Behalf Of Business
International Group, LLC
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 1:27 PM
To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] raising mast on Rhodes 22

I saw the photos and it certainly looks stable but very bulky.  If you use
mini stays on the mast which allow the mast to rotate forward and prevent it
from going sideways, you can have a much more compact pole, fast and easy to
take along in case you need to lower the mast under low bridges.

on 7/1/04 8:23 AM, ed kroposki at ekroposki at charter.net wrote:

> Nic (vic?)(you never sign)
> 
> With the Rhodes 22 there is a mast hoist system that is much more
> than a gin pole.  It is a balanced system mounted to the cabin top.  It is
> based on the principle of a gin pole, but it is secured to the cabin top
> (base) and has a line to the front deck cleat.  It uses the two back
inside
> stays to actually hoist the mast with the poles descending movement.  The
> other six stays act as guides and stabilizing support while raising and
> lowering.  The current version of the system is quite safe and efficient.
> One person can raise and lower the mast without dropping the mast on his
> head.  This can be done on the water or on the trailer!
> However, according to Stan caution should still be used.
> 
> Ed K
> R22 South Carolina
> ~~~~~~~ _/) ~~~~~~~~~~~~
> In remembrance, Rummy may he sail in peace.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Business
> International Group, LLC
> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 9:32 PM
> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] raising mast on Rhodes 22
> 
> Are you saying you actually bought a mast hoise?? I'm thinking about the
> small crane like devices marinas use to hoist a mast.  Ever think about
> using a Gin pole instead.  That way you're not limited to one location
> unless somehow your hoist is moveable.
> 
> on 6/29/04 8:19 AM, Dennis Narehood at dennis_narehood at att.net wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> Stan suggested I ask the list and try to contact Jay Friedland.
>> 
>> I got a recycled Rhodes 22 in August last year.  Love it.  Taking down
>> the mast was a disaster.  We tried to do it manually and I dropped it on
> my
>> head.
>> 
>> We bought a mast hoist In January and I almost have the boat repaired and
>> back in shape. (Waiting for plastic shims for the spreaders ).
>> 
>> 
>> Is there anyone in Barnegat bay area around Toms river that could check
my
>> work and guide me through raising the mast using the hoist system?
>> Thanks
>> Dennis
>> 
>> __________________________________________________
>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> 
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> 
> __________________________________________________
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