[Rhodes22-list] 20 Knots Of Wind With Full Sail? I Don't Think So!

Wally Buck tnrhodey at hotmail.com
Sat Mar 13 10:11:36 EST 2004


Roger,

Thanks for the feed back. Count me in with the group that reduces sail in 20 
plus wind. I don't have any type of measuring device but when we race many 
measure wind speed and the wind speed is posted with results. We started 
last weeks race with a steady 20 knots.  It took two of us on the rai with 
boom lowered, main slightly furled  (dbl reef) and my 125 furled just a tad. 
It was still difficult to keep the boat level heading upwind. As you say it 
was active sailing. On the downwind leg we didn't mess with the spinnaker 
and unfurled both sails.

I also agree it is very hard to estimate wind speed and wave size. Perhaps 
others have sails that are blown out? Heck I don't know but I am pretty much 
convinced my next sale will be a 155. Not sure what type yet.

Wally


>From: "Roger Pihlaja" <cen09402 at centurytel.net>
>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] 20 Knots Of Wind With Full Sail? I Don't Think So!
>Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:35:41 -0500
>
>Gentlemen,
>
>Now I realize Dynamic Equilibrium is a 1976 Rhodes 22 & therefore several
>hundred pounds lighter than newer & more luxuriosly equipped models.  In
>addition, I also have a fully battened mainsail & a 150% bi-radial
>construction genoa made from a dacron, mylar, and kevlar composite
>sailcloth.  Both of my sails will maintain optimum sailshape far better 
>than
>any of the standard OEM sails.  It's been my experience that reefing needs
>to follow the following approximate schedule of wind speeds:
>
>Apparent Wind                                          Sailing Style
>Speed (knots)    Point of Sail   Passive Mode       Active Mode
>0 - 12                       All            150% + FMS        150% + FMS
>
>Tri-Radial Spinnaker Recommended
>
>On Points Of Sail > 65 deg Apparent
>
>(More Downwind Than Close Reach)
>
>12 - 15                    Beat           150% + 1 Reef    150% + FMS +
>"Active Control"
>                                                    + Crew On Rail     + 
>Crew
>On Rail
>
>15 - 17                    Beat          125% + 1 Reef     135% + 1 Reef +
>"Active Control"
>                                                   + Crew On Rail     + 
>Crew
>On Rail
>
>15 - 20                    Beat          110% + 2 Reefs    125% + 2 Reefs +
>"Active Control"
>                                                   + Crew On Rail     + 
>Crew
>On Rail
>
>12 - 15                   Reach         150% + FMS        150% + FMS +
>"Active Control"
>                                                   + Crew On Rail     + 
>Crew
>On Rail
>
>Tri-Radial Spinnaker An Option
>
>On Points Of Sail => 80 deg
>
>15 - 20                   Reach         150% + 1 Reef     150% + FMS +
>"Active Control"
>                                                   + Crew On Rail     + 
>Crew
>On Rail
>
>Tri-Radial Spinnaker An Option
>
>On Points Of Sail => 100 deg
>
>But Some Danger Of Broaching
>
>20 - 25                   Reach         150% + 2 Reefs    150% + 1 Reef +
>"Active Control"
>                                                    + Crew On Rail    + 
>Crew
>On Rail
>
>25 - 30                   Reach         125% + 2 Reefs    150% + 2 Reefs +
>"Active Control"
>                                                    + Crew On Rail     + 
>Crew
>On Rail
>
>Some Danger Of Broaching
>
>12 - 15             => 110 deg      150% + 1 Reef      150% + FMS + "Active
>Control"
>                  More Downwind     + Crew On Rail     + Crew On Rail
>                 Than Broad Reach
>Tri-Radial Spinnaker Recommended
>
>15 - 20            => 110 deg      150% + 2 Reefs     150% + 1 Reef +
>"Active Control"
>                                                   + Crew On Rail     + 
>Crew
>On Rail
>
>Tri-Radial Spinnaker An Option
>
>But Some Danger Of Broaching
>
>20 - 25            => 110 deg      125% + 2 Reefs    135% + 2 Reefs +
>"Active Control"
>                                                   + Crew On Rail     + 
>Crew
>On Rail
>
>Tri-Radial Spinnaker An Option
>
>But Increasing Danger Of Broaching
>
>NOTES:
>XXX% = Size Of Roller Furling Genoa
>FMS = Full Main Sail
>Y Reefs = Main Sail With Y Number Of Reefs
>Active Control = Constant sail trim adjustments & course changes to take
>full advantage of wind shifts,
>                               (i.e. gusts, lulls, headers, lifts, etc),
>currents, and waves
>
>I measure apparent wind speed & direction on board Dynamic Equilibrium with
>an Airguide Model 919 handheld anemometer/bearing compass.  This very 
>clever
>device gives both an apparent wind speed and compass bearing.  It's been my
>experience that without this measurement, I tend to grossly overestimate 
>the
>wind speed.
>
>Unless you are strictly speaking about downwind sailing, I strongly doubt
>any of your boats can carry full sail up to 20+ knots of wind.  Get an
>anemometer, show me your data while sailing upwind, & then I'll believe.
>Until then - BULLSHIT!
>
>Roger Pihlaja
>S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Steve" <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com>
>To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 2:11 PM
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Purchasing new genny????
>
>
> > Wally
> > Just wondering how you are sheeting your headsail in
> > heavy wind.  In 20+ wind, heading upwind, I sheet
> > headsail very tight.  Adjust your genona track so you
> > spill a little at the top.  Even in a gust, I never
> > dump the headsail; only the main.  You can dump the
> > main to where it is backwinding from the headsail but
> > maintain the same speed due to the increase in wind
> > speed. Also, if you happen to round up, as long as the
> > headsail is still set with main completely dumped,
> > when the boat comes back; the headsail will start to
> > bite & quickly gain your momentom back.
> > Steve
> >
> >
> > --- Wally Buck <tnrhodey at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > My boat must be light or something. At 20 heading
> > > upwind my 125 is furled to
> > > keep me off the rail and I am fighting a 30 degree
> > > heel.  Most likely the
> > > boom is lowered halfway as well. I like exciting
> > > sails as much as anyone and
> > > more than most. Too bad you can't try sails out and
> > > return them like clothes
> > > that don't quite fit!
> > >
> > > Still have an open mind .....
> > >
> > > Wally
> > >
> > > >From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
> > > >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > >To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Purchasing new
> > > genny????
> > > >Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:04:45 -0500
> > > >
> > > >Twice in one day.
> > > >
> > > >Again, Wally, I agree with Rummy.  I rarely furl
> > > below 20 knots.  I sail
> > > >the boat upright with minimum heel.  I generally
> > > sail alone.  The 175 makes
> > > >it very easy to come about.  I adjust sail sizes to
> > > keep the boat well
> > > >balanced.  When I'm sailing in crowded harbors I
> > > reduce the size of the 175
> > > >so I can see the traffic better.
> > > >
> > > >Bill Effros
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: R22RumRunner at aol.com
> > > >To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> > > >Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 5:18 PM
> > > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Purchasing new
> > > genny????
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Wally,
> > > >When you furl depends a lot on your style of
> > > sailing and how much ballast
> > > >(people weight) you have with you. When alone, I
> > > never furl until the winds
> > > >gust
> > > >above 20 knots. Below that and I'm comfortable. The
> > > 175 is an awesome sail.
> > > >Besides looking good, it is an excellent performer
> > > in lite air as Bill
> > > >mentioned. By the way, I think this is one of the
> > > first times anyone has
> > > >agreed with me
> > > >on the list.....I appreciate your support Bill.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Rummy
> > > >__________________________________________________
> > > >Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> > > www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > >__________________________________________________
> > > >Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> > > www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >
> > >
> > _________________________________________________________________
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> > >
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> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
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> >
> >
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>
>
>__________________________________________________
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