[Rhodes22-list] More Lacking Etiquette

Fri Oct 15 16:39:59 EDT 2004

I think the owner of the line is not important. If you tow a boat that is in 
no danger of sinking,
is not causing damage to other boats and/or property and is not placing 
people in danger you do not get salvage rights.

If a boat is in danger of sinking, grounding, blocking traffic, causing 
environmental harm you may have salvage claim.

I pulled this from a web sight - 
http://law.freeadvice.com/admiralty_maritime/salvage_and_treasure/salvage_award.htm

The admiralty law of the United States has long recognized that the law of 
salvage rewards the voluntary salvor for the successful rescue of life or 
property imperiled at sea. In order to have a valid claim for having 
rendered salvage services, the salvor must show that the property saved was 
imperiled, that his services were voluntarily rendered, and that he was 
successful in whole or in part to the saving of the property.

A salvor who has earned the right to a salvage award for the successful 
voluntary salvage to a vessel in peril has a preferred maritime lien on the 
vessel. However, a salvor must surrender possession of the vessel to the 
owner on demand if the owner posts reasonable security for the claim. If the 
owner declines to post sufficient security to pay salvage charges, the 
salvor must turn the vessel over to the U. S. Marshall and proceed to 
foreclose the maritime lien.

There are several factors that would be considered by a court in 
establishing the amount of the salvor’s award. Some of these include the 
difficulty of the operation, the risk involved to the salvor, the value of 
the property saved, and the degree of danger to which the property was 
exposed. It would be a rare case in which the salvage award would be greater 
than 50 percent of the value of the vessel. More commonly, salvage awards 
amount to 10 percent to 25 percent of the value of the vessel and property 
salvaged.

Wally

>From: "Mark Kaynor" <mark at kaynor.org>
>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] More Lacking Etiquette
>Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:21:30 -0400
>
>Bob,
>
>This just came up last night in discussion w/ friends at our marina in
>Deltaville over a few drinks. The general consensus was "if you use the
>other guy's line, you open yourself up for the possibility of a salvage
>claim of up to 12.5% of the value of the boat and it's cargo". No one had
>any references w/ which to back this up, but all seemed to agree that, if
>the other guy tosses you a line, you should let it fall in the water and
>toss him your line if you need a tow.
>
>Mark Kaynor
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Bob Weber
>Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 11:38 AM
>To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] More Lacking Etiquette
>
>I was once told that a "rescuer" can claim salvage to your boat if he 
>throws
>you a line and you attach it to your boat.  I was told if that happens to
>let the line go in the water then you throw him a line instead.  Is that an
>old wives tale or high seas law?
>
>Bob
>
> >From: "Wally Buck" <tnrhodey at hotmail.com>
> >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] More Lacking Etiquette
> >Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 08:47:24 -0400
> >
> >As MJM says it depends on conditions. Your boat must be in "peril". The
> >person towing may be entitled to compensation but usually it is less
> >than the boat. There are many gray areas.
> >
> >Wally
> >
> >>From: Michael Meltzer <mjm at michaelmeltzer.com>
> >>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] More Lacking Etiquette
> >>Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:06:13 -0400
> >>
> >>The way I heard it: you use your own anchor rode, what way you get the
> >>work of putting back together and it the difference between giving a
> >>tow and providing the equipment to give a tow(higher salvage claim), A
> >>yatchman should never claim salvage for a tow(that etiquette), but the
> >>commercial (sea tow, boat us, fisherman sometimes, etc.. will charge)
> >>and you are best off agreeing to a price before hand otherwise is is a
> >>salvage claim. All this is tempered by conditions and distance. 20
> >>minutes to a dock on a sunny day vs 20 miles offshore in a storm, hard
> >>grounding all bets are off(i.e salvage), same goes for taking on
> >>water. BTW beware of power boats giving a tow, they go to fast 
>sometimes.
> >>
> >>My favorite: the captain is respectable for everything on the boat. no
> >>one else. i.e. the helmsman hits a buoy in broad daylight, 5000$ of
> >>damage the captain pays, the captain was sleeping in the cabin, still
> >>his fault, try to blame the crew or anyone else, wrong still his
> >>faults, tries to give the bill to anyone, big time wrong, the boat is
> >>holed by the bouy(salvage that the captain pays), boat is a totaled
> >>loose, the captain lost. Bad charts, his fault, part breaks, still his
> >>fault. crew does not follow orders, his fault. Boat yard screewed up,
> >>still the captin. Get hit by another boat, even following the
> >>rules(i.e standon), still will be blamed for "poor seamanship".
> >>Something happen dock/anchor/mooring while the captin is 100 miles
> >>away, still his fault, should have been "maned". No water on board,
>salvage.
> >>
> >>It ok to jump on another boat at the dock to fend off and save it from
> >>a "docking challenged captain".
> >>
> >>If something break, is damaged, tell the captin, do not "hide" it. If
> >>someone causes damage to your boat, let is slide or file with your
> >>insurance(the Jay Paul Getty thing). get sick, spill something,
> >>overflow the head, clean it up.
> >>
> >>MJM
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Bob Weber wrote:
> >>
> >>>Slim, I am looking for correct behavior either legal or polite. Most
> >>>of the high seas laws were nothing more than common sense etiquette
> >>>at one time until someone lacking commonsense or etiquette caused a
> >>>stink by not abiding. The fact that I have to teach the good
> >>>semaritan 'Law" in class is an example of this. Bob
> >>>
> >>>>From: Steve Alm <salm at mn.rr.com>
> >>>>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>>To: Rhodes <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] More Lacking Etiquette
> >>>>Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:13:10 -0500
> >>>>
> >>>>Bob,
> >>>>
> >>>>Are you looking for etiquette or law? Two different things, aren't 
>they?
> >>>>This one seems like a legal issue whereas helping a stranger land
> >>>>his boat is etiquette. What about finding an unattended vessel at
> >>>>sea? Finders keepers? But again--that's law, no?
> >>>>
> >>>>Slim
> >>>>
> >>>>On 10/13/04 1:46 PM, "Bob Weber" <ruba1811 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> > I thought of another one having to do with the High Seas Salvage
> >>>>rules but
> >>>> > forget how it goes. When getting assistance from another vessel -
> >>>> > who
> >>>>has
> >>>> > to throw a line to whom so as not to lose your boat to the
> >>>> > rescuer on
> >>>>a
> >>>> > technicality? anyone? Bueler.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > BW
> >>>> >
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