[Rhodes22-list] Mary Lou's Lee helm

[Roger Pihlaja]

Mary Lou,

How does Fretless sit on her lines when the boat is tied up to the dock?
With no one on board, the boat should should be level on the waterline from
side-to-side and slightly down by the bow, maybe about an inch.  With a
couple of adults in the cockpit, the boat should sit level on the waterline
in terms of fore/aft trim.  Before we can say whether or not Fretless is
truely right wing, you will need to shift ballast around until you achieve
the above static trim condition.  If the boat still wants to turn right
after these adjustments; then, you definitely have a problem.  I defer to
Stan as far as likely causes in this case.

Roger Pihlaja
S/V Dynamic Equilibrium

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Walker" <david.walker5 at comcast.net>
To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mary Lou's Lee helm


> Mary Lou,
>
> There are probably many ways to balance a Rhodes.  At around 15 knots I
find
> that combination of about 120% genoa and the IMF reefed to just exposing a
> sliver of the R22 emblem balances the boat very well with respect to helm
> and heeling, especially singled handed.  I was out yesterday in this
> condition and handily beat a Catalina 22 under its full sail with 4 crew.
> They were having trouble keeping the boat on its lines with the sails
> properly trimmed.  In general, I find that less sail, properly trimmed is
> better than more sailed trimmed to spill wind.
>
>  My Rhodes also seems to sail better with more forward sail area than aft.
> I most assuredly looks funny that way, but the helm is neutral as long as
> the heel is moderate.
>
> Dave W
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Alm" <salm at mn.rr.com>
> To: "Rhodes" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 5:14 PM
> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Mary Lou's Lee helm
>
>
> > Mary Lou,
> > Yes, I said what Stan said I said.  I raked the mast back by extending
the
> > forestay.  It was about 2" or more--sorry I can't be more precise.  That
> > brings the Center of Effros  8-)  aft and yields more weather helm.  But
> > that alone wasn't enough.  I started experimenting with the depth of my
> > centerboard and discovered I could create more weather helm by lessening
> the
> > depth of board.  I have the diamond board and it seems that raising it
> > brings the center of lateral resistance forward, increasing weather
helm.
> > The amount of board I use varies with the wind speed, boat speed and
point
> > of sail.  I'm still learning so I can't be very specific about that
other
> > than to say that the faster the boat speed, the less board I use.  But
if
> > I'm on a close reach, that probably makes me lose some of my footing to
> the
> > lee but I weigh that against the comfort of the helm.  I just play
around
> > with it until I'm happy.  Although I can't help you with the republican
> > tendency of Fretless--that's a head-scratcher -- I'd suggest making
> > adjustments to your board and see if that helps.  Also, I sometimes get
> lee
> > helm in light air which changes over to weather helm in the gusts.  The
> more
> > the boat heels, the greater the weather helm. And lastly, I rarely reef
in
> > my IMF main unless it's really blowing.  I'll reef in the 175% genny to
> > about 90% before I reef the main.  That happens when the winds are in
the
> > upper teens.  With winds much higher than that, I'm usually at the dock
> > having a cocktail.  8-)  Speaking of which, isn't it five o'clock
> somewhere?
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> > Slim
> >
> > On 9/5/04 1:48 PM, "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com> wrote:
> >
> > > a few thoughts if it is really a problem   Slim raked his mast aft by
> > > increasing the jib stay about 2" he says.  the new main with a little
> more
> > > sail area might help but that is a big investment.  If you are handy,
> putting
> > > a small extra fin forward of the keel might tip the scale. Also, I
think
> you
> > > are on the right track about more weight forward.  I brought my
thinking
> on
> > > this up to the List on two occasions but drew a blanc response each
> time. I
> > > think more bow in the water is akin to moving the keel (center of
> effort)
> > > forward and easy to test by having a lot of guests sit up on the bow
and
> see
> > > what happens to the tiller helm.  Hiring crew to sit on the bow might
be
> a
> > > patentable upgrade - let us know the test results.
> > >
> > > stan/gbi
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Mary Lou Troy
> > > To: stan
> > > Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 2:18 PM
> > > Subject: you are welcome and turning right (was Re: book)
> > >
> > >
> > > Stan,
> > > You are very welcome for the book. I do not have 1,000 more ;-) If you
> do want
> > > additional copies you'll have to contact Stan Grayson about it. He'll
> sell me
> > > additional copies for "personal use" at a 40% discount which is close
to
> what
> > > you can get from Amazon. I'm pleased with the book (and hope you are
> too).
> > >
> > > As for my cryptic note about Fretless being too right - We're not
going
> > > anywhere but Fred and I suspect you may have sold us a republican
boat.
> > >
> > > As you know we have had lee helm issues over the years. Using your
> suggestions
> > > we have been able to produce a nice neutral to slight weather helm -
on
> > > starboard tack only. On port tack the adjustments have only produced a
> > > reduction in lee helm. After making sure the mast was centered and the
> rigging
> > > moderately snug it finally occurred to us that what the boat was doing
> was
> > > always wanting to turn right. Last time we had her out we seemed to be
> able to
> > > reduce this tendency slightly and remove a bit of the lee helm by
> putting my
> > > weight amidships on the port cabin top so it is possible that we are
> still
> > > dealing with a weight distribution issue. We'll continue to
investigate
> but
> > > are wondering if you have any other suggestions for what we might
tinker
> with
> > > to produce a more middle of the rhode boat.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Mary Lou
> > >
> > >
> > > At 04:44 PM 8/29/2004 -0400, you wrote:
> > >
> > >   MLT -
> > >
> > >   How nice of you to send the book - need 1,000 more.
> > >
> > >   does a little too right mean we are loosing you? - hope not.
> > >
> > >   stan/gbi
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >
> > __________________________________________________
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>
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