[Rhodes22-list]Politics: Another Fearless Prediction

Sun Sep 26 23:57:30 EDT 2004

Brad,

We supplied Iraq with that WMD, and we sanctioned its use.  We thought it was the only way Iraq had a chance against Iran.  Iran also used WMD against the Iraqis, but to a lesser extent.  

The Kurds sided with Iran in the war as a way to possibly carve a piece out of Iraq if Iran won the war.  Iraqis do not regard Kurds as "Our Own People" any more than southerners saw freed slaves as "Our Own People" during the civil war--and for many years thereafter.

When we stopped providing the precursor chemicals, Iraq lost the ability to make WMD.  The stuff does have a limited shelf life.  At some point everyone destroys the WMD on the shelf, because old casings start leaking and your own soldiers start keeling over.

Iraq provided 10,000 pages of documentation showing when and where they had destroyed their WMD.  The UN inspection teams verified that the stuff was destroyed.  There were bookkeeping errors--some of the chemicals have multiple uses--but no one could find so much as a gram of the stuff where it wasn't supposed to be.

The United States said that as soon as we "liberated" Iraq, the Iraqi scientists would show us where the WMD had been made and had been hidden, but not a single scientist materialized after the invasion.  

David Kay was one of the leading United States experts who insisted before the war that Iraq had WMD.  He spent 6 months desperately looking for them and then finally concluded that Iraq did not have them and had not had them.  He's the one who said we were almost all wrong on this issue.

We know exactly what happened to the WMD Saddam had, and we know he lacked the ability to make more.  Let's not start speculating about whether space aliens (or Syrians) drove off with it. 

Bill

----- Original Message ----- 
From: brad haslett 
To: The Rhodes 22 mail list 
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 10:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list]Politics: Another Fearless Prediction

Bill,

Where have you been hiding?  WMD conspiracy theories? 
I love/hate the New Yorker Magazine but I'll use it to
make a point.  Saddams's possession AND use of WMD is
well documented.  Where are they now?  Don't know.

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?020325fa_FACT1

There's tons of info on this attack and others.  I'm
using this article out of convenience because I
remember reading it when it was first published.

Brad Haslett
"CoraShen"
--- Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:

> Brad,
> 
> That's the 1991 analysis of chemical agents.  CIA
> was wrong about their ability to create and store
> chemical agents after 1991.  They couldn't and
> didn't.  We know that now.
> 
> We provided Iraq with the biological weapons.  They
> didn't have the ability to develop them by
> themselves.  Iraq never developed the ability to
> make them.  They never had nukes, and never came
> close.  We provided the precursor chemicals required
> for Iraq's manufacture of chemical weapons, and we
> authorized their use, but when we pulled the plug
> they were never able to produce the stable chemicals
> required in sufficient quantity for a weapons
> program.  We have stockpiles of many of the same
> chemical WMD, and like the Iraqis, we destroyed
> several different types because they were unstable.
> 
> We didn't find WMD because Iraq didn't have WMD. 
> Our government spent over a billion dollars looking
> for something every knowledgeable person knew wasn't
> there and hadn't been there.  There are real issues
> to address.  Let's not spend a lot of time
> concocting WMD conspiracy theories.
> 
> Bill
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: brad haslett 
> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list 
> Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 9:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list]Politics: Another
> Fearless Prediction
> 
> 
> Gentlemen,
> 
> Here's a link to the Federation of American
> Scientists
> 1991 analysis of Iraq's bio capability based on CIA
> data.
> 
> http://www.fas.org/irp/gulf/cia/960705/73919_01.htm
> 
> Brad Haslett
> "CoraShen"
> 
> 
> --- Roger Pihlaja <cen09402 at centurytel.net> wrote:
> 
> > Bill,
> > 
> > Scott Rider's assertions to the contrary, consider
> > this.  At the time Iraq
> > developed & was using their chemical & biological
> > weapons, they were the 4th
> > largest military force in the world.  Iraq is
> mostly
> > desert & all of Iraq's
> > neighbors are mostly desert.  Thus, any battle
> > scenario that the Iraq
> > military could reasonably foresee, not matter
> > whether it was defensive or
> > offensive would involve desert warfare.  These are
> > smart people being driven
> > by a madman for whom failure was not an option. 
> > Literally billions of
> > dollars in resources were available to these
> > programs.  When your family is
> > being held hostage & your own life is in danger of
> > imprisonment &/or torture
> > if you don't succeed, I would imagine most folks
> > would get right down to
> > business & solve the biological, chemical,
> > shelflife, & other technical
> > problems of getting chemical & biological weapons
> to
> > work in a desert combat
> > scenario.  No one doubts that the United States &
> > Russia know how to build
> > biological and chemical weapons.  The chemical
> > weapons disposal program in
> > the US Army involved warheads that were something
> > like 30+ years old & they
> > were treated with due respect.  Why would anyone
> > doubt that the Iraq
> > military couldn't build a similarly robust, long
> > shelf life weapon?
> > Sometimes, you have to give the devil his due.
> > 
> > Roger Pihlaja
> > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
> > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 6:23 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Another Fearless
> > Prediction
> > 
> > 
> > > "If we find something, great, but
> professionally,
> > > I don't see how these weapons could exist. They
> > > defy the laws of industry, the laws of science
> and
> > > technology.They have no shelf life."
> > >
> > > Scott Ridder
> > > Former UN Inspector
> > > April 18, 2003
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Roger Pihlaja
> > > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 3:34 PM
> > > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Another Fearless
> > Prediction
> > >
> > >
> > > Brad,
> > >
> > > Since your news story seems to have vindicated
> the
> > prediction I made last
> > summer regarding smuggling WMD's out of Iraq into
> > Syria & Lebanon, let me
> > make another fearless prediction.  By, the way
> Bill,
> > you are mistaken
> > regarding the shelf life & stability of chemical &
> > biological weapons.  They
> > are both plenty stable enough to be transported
> long
> > distances over the
> > desert.  If they weren't, they would never survive
> > the heat & pressure of
> > the explosive used to disperse them when the
> warhead
> > goes off.  Anthrax, for
> > example, is a bacteria that lives naturally in the
> > soil by forming spores
> > that are remarkably resistant to the environment. 
> > So-called "weaponized"
> > Anthrax is actually a mixture of spray dried
> Anthrax
> > spores stuck to the
> > surface of particles of an inert low density
> > substrate such as finely ground
> > cellulose.  The trick is to get the particle size
> > distribution just right so
> > the particles tend to get lofted into the air,
> float
> > around on air currents
> > for long distances, & eventually get inhaled by
> > potential victims.  In the
> > moist, warm conditions inside the respiratory
> tract,
> > the Anthrax spores
> > spring back to life & infect the victim.  Chemical
> > weapons are usually of
> > the so-called "binary" type wherein the warhead
> > actually contains two
> > compartments.  Each compartment contains a
> reactive
> > precusor.  When the
> > warhead is fired, the precursor chemicals are
> mixed
> > together & chemically
> > react to form the final toxin, such as a nerve
> > agent.  Although the final
> > toxin may have a short half life, each of the
> > precursor chemicals is quite
> > stable over long periods of time.
> > >
> > > I just heard a news story that the US State Dept
> > has approved the sale of
> > several hundred million dollars worth of
> > "penetrating munitions" to Israel.
> > Now what do you suppose Israel would want with a
> > boatload of bunker busters?
> > Unless Iran opens up its nuclear program to permit
> > on-site inspections, I
> > predict Israel will do a coordinated air assault
> to
> > take out about a dozen
> > key Iranian nuclear facilities all at the same
> time,
> > in a scaled-up version
> > of a similar operation they pulled on Iraq in
> 1985(I
> > think that was the
> > year?).  I predict this will happen in less than a
> > year from now.  The
> > United States will chastise Israel in public for
> > this action; but, in
> 
=== message truncated ===

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