[Rhodes22-list] boom room and boat cost

Bill Effros bill at effros.com
Sat Aug 20 11:49:47 EDT 2005


Ed,

The Chinese have changed the equation.  When they went from Communism to 
Capitalism they knew how to do it.  They will eat the lunch of every US 
manufacturer who tries to raise prices based on increased demand.

Meanwhile, the eroding value of the US dollar means that while oil 
prices skyrocket for us (oil prices are based on US dollars), they 
remain essentially the same for every country that does not peg the 
value of its currency to the US dollar.  When the Chinese  revalued the 
Yuan they decreased the cost of oil to their manufacturers.

It sure has been rough sledding for US manufacturers, and it's not going 
to get any better.  It's getting worse.

How does GB survive in this environment?

GB has a product whose perceived value is greater than its cost.  Few US 
manufacturers can make this claim.  GB will wind up either going out of 
business, or increasing its prices, and aiming for a market that can 
easily afford to pay for a superior product.  (Think Mercedes Benz.)

The Boom Room is a fantastic upgrade to a standard R-22.  The problem 
with it is that the perceived value is less than the cost.  If Stan 
could bring the manufacturing cost down, he would sell more, make more 
money, and put more distance between his product and every other 
trailerable sailboat on the market.

The boom room discussion is an attempt to help Stan make more money on 
each boat sale, while building for us an addition to the boat that will 
never become available from any outside source.  Capitalism is not 
Stan's long suit.  For Stan to survive he will have to decrease the 
margin on each sale, while increasing the number of dollars he actually 
puts into his own pocket.

To accomplish this with the Boom Room accessory, he must drive down his 
manufacturing costs.  He will not be able to raise the price on this 
item.  If enough people jump in to make it worth his while, Stan will 
think about how to drive down manufacturing costs while maintaining all 
of the features already incorporated.

Pamela and Alex can (and would, if asked nicely and they had the time) 
help Stan.  They know the manufacturing costs of these kinds of items; 
they know the suppliers; they know the labor market in Stan's neck of 
the woods.

The demand for Stan's product is probably insufficient to ever interest 
the Chinese.  They may knock off a boat, but it's unlikely to be Stan's 
boat, unless somebody makes it very easy for them.  What they will do is 
force down the price of lesser trailerable sailboats, and steal as many 
of Stan's ideas as they can easily incorporate.

The Boom Room will not be an easy idea to steal, because it is based on 
so many other ideas already built into the boat.  You can't just put a 
Boom Room on a MacGregor.

Going to a wedding, got to run,

Bill Effros





.

ed kroposki wrote:

>Chris:
>	That was the old retail model.  It was based on economies of scale.
>In today's world, Stan's suppliers more often than not go out of business
>between units of production.  Others buy enough raw materials to build one
>unit.  Then order more raw material for the next unit.  In the meantime
>their suppliers raise the price, and they raise their price.  This is the
>way it is working for Stan.  
>	Then other suppliers realize he wants a second unit, so they raise
>the price.  They have found a hot item and want to milk it for all it is
>worth.  Today's economic model is sell one at a time.  If it sells without
>discount, raise the price.
>	Those guys who are waiting for the price of anything in demand to
>come down will never get that product in today's market place.  Stan is
>trying to build boats completely himself.  He now has to fabricate many of
>the pieces that he used to get from suppliers.  
>	If the product has value and demand, the price is going up.  The
>economic theories that they taught you in college no longer apply.  By the
>time you put in your order the price will go up 25 per cent.  Mark my words,
>the plastic that they use for the panels might not even be available.  The
>word market place has changed.    
>	If Rummy has not left yet, maybe he will contradict me and say the
>price of roofing is going down.  Is this the case Mr. Rummy?
>
>Ed K
>Greenville, SC, USA
>	
>-----Original Message-----
>From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Chris Geankoplis
>Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 2:25 AM
>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>Subject: Re: @SPAM++++ [Rhodes22-list] KA-boom room
>
>Todd,
>        You missed the point! If Stan can have one widget made at a cost of
>$100 and there is a 50% markup he makes $50.  If his sub contractor is
>willing to make 5 of them for 90$ a piece because there are 5 of us who want
>one Stan makes $45 each.  Times 5.  If nothing else, if the price for a
>widget is 150 retail then Stan does even better. By coordinating our
>ordering we make it a more profitable transaction for him and his
>subcontractor.
>Chris G.
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Todd Tavares" <sprocket80 at mail.com>
>To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 6:15 PM
>Subject: @SPAM++++ [Rhodes22-list] KA-boom room
>
>
>
>
>   I have been following this boom room thread and scratching my head.  Stan
>wrote to the list for ideas because his business is hurting right now.  Then
>this thread about the boom rooms started up.  Maybe if we all get together
>and order boom rooms....we can beat Stan down on his price?!?!  HUH??  A
>"volume discount" from a one-off custom builder?
>
>   Better yet, why don't we ask Alex; a fellow businessman and (I think)
>friend of Stan's to cut him out of the picture altogether?!?  My guess is
>that Alex is ignoring purposely request...but thats just my guess (I cant't
>speak for anyone else...especially Mr Alex).
>
>   I measured a old design Triad trailer and posted the drawings on the
>list.  I was publicly berated for violating Stan's intellectual property
>rights.... but now my berater is advocating that Rhodies collectively join
>to get Stan to give a "volume discount"....or better yet, have someone else
>make a knock-off boom room and take bread off of Stan's table completely.
>Maybe I am missing something here.
>
>Todd
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
>To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: Re: @CHECK Re: [Rhodes22-list] boom room
>Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 13:40:31 -0400
>
>  
>
>>Bob,
>>
>>They ain't cheap.  Too much detail work and a lot of canvas.  I
>>assume you have the Pop-Top Enclosure.  I tried to find out if Alex
>>and Pamela had an interest in taking a crack at this, but Alex
>>never replied.  I'm sure we can drive down the price if a bunch of
>>us order at the same time, but I doubt we can drive down the price
>>very far.  On the other hand, I doubt they will ever be available
>>in the future at the price we will pay.
>>
>>Bill Effros
>>
>>Bob Keller wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>I am interested in exploring the boom room, but the last time I
>>>asked about it (several years) it was pretty expensive and not
>>>readily available.  Looking at an alternative designed by Rummy
>>>himself, but before deciding would like to know the latest with
>>>Boom Room design, availability and pricing.  Will be moving the
>>>Yankee Clipper from the comfortable confines of my own dock on
>>>Lake Hartwell to a marina in the Savannah area next spring, so I
>>>am planning ahead.
>>>Thanks.
>>>Bob K
>>>Yankee Clipper
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>>>>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>Subject: Re: @CHECK   Re: [Rhodes22-list] boom room
>>>>Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 22:07:10 -0400
>>>>
>>>>Chris,
>>>>
>>>>I'm with you.  Ed notwithstanding, if enough people place orders
>>>>Stan will work out some more wrinkles.  I do plan to order, and
>>>>will work with you, Stan, and anyone else who wants to play.
>>>>
>>>>Bill Effros
>>>>
>>>>Chris Geankoplis wrote:
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>Hey Bill,
>>>>>           Maybe Stan will give us a volume Discount as the Boomroom
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>is
>  
>
>>>>>supposed to be my Christmass present.  Let me know so we can
>>>>>co-ordinate our
>>>>>orders.  Anyone out there who is thinking about a boomroom or Poptop
>>>>>enclosure let us know, it is always cheaper to manufacture and
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>purchase in
>  
>
>>>>>volume, right Stan?
>>>>>Chris Geankoplis
>>>>>S/V Enosis
>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
>>>>>To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 6:05 AM
>>>>>Subject: @CHECK Re: [Rhodes22-list] boom room
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>John,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The pop-top enclosure is different from the Boom Room.  The Pop-Top
>>>>>>enclosure is an elegant addition to the boat.  Many people have them,
>>>>>>and everyone raves about them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The Boom-Room is still in the prototype stage.  Many people have
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>them,
>  
>
>>>>>>but most are different.  The concept is elegant, but Stan has not
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>been
>  
>
>>>>>>satisfied with his engineering to date.  He feels there is too much
>>>>>>stuff required to hold it up compared to the number of uses you are
>>>>>>likely to get from actually deploying it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On my Pop-Top Enclosure there is a Velcro strip at the stern end
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>where
>  
>
>>>>>>the Pop-Top enclosure is supposed to attach to the Boom Room
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>enclosure.
>  
>
>>>>>>I have attached pictures of Slim's Boom Room and Roger's Boom Room.
>>>>>>Both are different from Stan's Boom Room.  I believe Stan now makes
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>them
>  
>
>>>>>>differently from the way it is shown on his web site.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I plan to get a Boom Room this winter (Ed, I'll need it for the Keys)
>>>>>>and that will force Stan to think about it again.  Like Mary Lou, I
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>use
>  
>
>>>>>>my Pop-Top Enclosure all the time, and just love it.  It coverts the
>>>>>>cabin into a nicer stateroom than I have slept in in much larger
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>boats.
>  
>
>>>>>>The only problem with the Pop-Top enclosure is that when you are
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>using
>  
>
>>>>>>the cabin to sleep in, you can't use if for much else.  I anticipate
>>>>>>that adding the Boom Room will be like adding a bedroom to my house.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Bill Effros
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>john steadham wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Does the boom room cover the poptop or is that a different item?
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>Does
>  
>
>>>>>>>anybody have pictures of the r22 with the boom room up?
>>>>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>        
>>>>
>---- 
>  
>
>>>>>----
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>Name: Slim's Boom Room.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 85243 bytes Desc:
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>not
>  
>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>available
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>Url:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attch/200508/17/SlimsBoomRoo
>m.jpg -
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>  
>
>>>>>----
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>Name: Roger's Boom Room.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 1854402 bytes
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>Desc: not
>  
>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>available
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>Url:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attch/200508/17/RogersBoomRo
>om.jpg -
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>  
>
>>>>>----
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>
>>>__________________________________________________
>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>__________________________________________________
>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>    
>>
>
>
>  
>


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