[Rhodes22-list] Main Sail Speed

Mon Aug 22 11:55:53 EDT 2005

Ron,

Thanks for the info.  I've been looking at the UPS or equivalent, also the
vertical battens. Does that increase main area much?

Also, changing headsails in the CDI furler is highly overated especially in
high winds.  The internal halyard ( at least mine) has a lot of friction
making raising the sail and making off the halyard and tack a fun procedure
even on the hard let alone on the water.

Dave
David Walker
David Walker Photography
davidwalkerphotography.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ronald Lipton" <rlipton at earthlink.net>
To: "David Walker" <dwalker at alum.mit.edu>; "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
<rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Main Sail Speed

> David,
>
>    Your comments are pretty much on the mark.  The 175 does have some
> failings, especially in extreme (high or low) winds.  You can do several
> things that will help (and cost money)
> - With the CDI furler you can switch to a smaller jib in high winds.  I
have
> the GB furler so my only choice is to furl and go to the inboard tracks.
> - Several boats have the UPS sail, which is made of light cloth, can be
> furled,
> and is carried behind the 175.  I have only used it a few times so far,
but
> it is
> the clear choice in light winds.
> - I replaced my old IMF main with a slightly hurricane damaged vertical
> batten sail
>  I bought. I find that the boat is easier to balance with this sail and
the
> main has
> increased drive.  It makes a real difference.
>
> Ron
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Walker" <david.walker5 at comcast.net>
> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 9:33 AM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Main Sail Speed
>
>
> > Phyllis,
> >
> > I've been watching these emails go by but have not had the time to
> > respond.
> > I sailed my recycled Rhodes for 2 seasons with a traditional main and a
> > 135
> > genoa, and then traded with stan for an IMF with 175 on a CDI furler.
> > (BTW - my best research at the time - Stan wasn't too much help as the
> > standard masts are old- was that if you switch masts will need to
replace
> > the standing rigging as the masts are not the same height)
> >
> > My experience is that the standard main and 135 sailed a little faster
and
> > pointed higher.  With the IMF rig most of the power comes from the big
> > genoa
> > and the main is basically balancing the sail plan as in the mizzen of a
> > ketch or yawl.  I reef the genoa first then reduce the main to keep
> > balance.
> > My experience is the boat will not sail well at all with just the main
out
> > and will not tack.
> >
> > There are three problems to this:  1) the big genoa does not sheet in
> > close
> > enough to point that well.  It is worse when reefed.  2) the big genoa
is
> > made of relatively heavy material and does not perform well in light
wind
> > aft of the beam due to it weight.  3)  When sailing in high winds in a
> > small
> > keel boat, it is usual to ease the mainsheet in gusts to keep the hull
on
> > its lines.  With the already small main reefed, you don't have much to
> > dump
> > and you need to keep a fair amount of jib out for speed.
> >
> > Is all this bad? No just different.  Would I go back to a standard main?
> > No.  In fact the IMF has been keeping me from seriously looking for a
boat
> > in the 28-30' range.  For my sailing, the absolute ease of sail handling
> > makes up for a few more tacks going up wind, and when the J24's pass me
I
> > take solace that when they are furling and covering mains and bagging
> > jibs,
> > I'll be relaxing in the cockpit or already on the lauch heading for a
> > restaurant.
> > David Walker
> > S/V Windspept
> > Marblehead  MA
> >
> > David Walker Photography
> > davidwalkerphotography.com
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "P&M Beals" <beals at rci.rutgers.edu>
> > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 8:50 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Main Sail Speed
> >
> >
> >> HI.
> >>
> >> It's not speed so much that I care about it's getting so I feel my
vessel
> >> responds well in different conditions.
> >>
> >> I think I am making progress...I read your post, Bill, from 3/04 with
> > Craig
> >> Lowe's tip to help me locate it, on tacking, and tacking when sailing
in
> >> stronger winds...
> >>
> >> I also hope to still connect with Jay Friedland for a Sept. sail on a
> >> good
> >> strong windy day... without my 10 yr old daughter worried about too
much
> >> wind, too much heeling, and see if he has any pointers for us...
> >>
> >> I believe a good part of my issue has to do with adjusting my sailing
> >> technique to this boat...so I am not faulting the boat...or the IMF for
> > that
> >> matter...I grew up sailing a vessel that would come about on a
dime...as
> > the
> >> saying goes...it sailed so close to the wind that other captains on
other
> >> sailboats could not believe it, and yes, it was fast, very fast, and it
> >> could sail with only a breath of wind...a gaff rigged 36 footer...no
> > motor.
> >>
> >> but hey, that was that boat, and now I am enjoying our R-22... I am
> >> interested  to just compare sailing with the traditional mainsail vs.
the
> >> IMF....that is why the fact that  I have an R-22 traditional mainsail
> >> neighbor now at my anchorage, but he happens to be kind of a solitary
> > soul,
> >> and did not extend an offer to have me sail on his boat, is a little
> >> disappointing...
> >>
> >> The thought has come to me, that with my boat came a slightly worn
> >> traditional mainsail...I could buy from Stan a mast for the traditional
> >> main, keep the IMF...and do some sailing with the traditional
> > mainsail...I'm
> >> not convinced I should give up the IMF too quickly  here...
> >>
> >> but buying a mast  probably is not a cheap item either...I am more
> >> interested in getting the motor lift to help me get our 9.9  yamaha 4
> > stroke
> >> easily out of the water...
> >>
> >> Phyllis
> >> Whisper
> >> Keyport
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
> >> > Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >> > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 17:03:24 -0400
> >> > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >> > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Main Sail Speed
> >> >
> >> > Phyllis,
> >> >
> >> > I still don't know if boats sail measurably faster with traditional
> >> > sails than IMF, but I've been working with my IMF to see how fast it
> >> > will sail.  Generally I get most of the drive out of the head sail,
and
> >> > use the main sail primarily to keep the boat balanced.  Recently I've
> >> > been sailing with a full main sail and storm sail sized jib to try to
> >> > determine the maximum speed I can get out of main sail alone.  To
date
> >> > the best I have done is 4.2 kts sustained on main sail alone.
> >> >
> >> > What is the best speed you can get out of just your main sail?  What
is
> >> > the best speed people with traditional main sails can get out of
their
> >> > main sails alone?
> >> >
> >> > If the traditional people can get significantly higher boat speeds
out
> >> > of just their main sails, I think that would answer some of your
> > questions.
> >> >
> >> > Rummy, are you in this game?  Rummy has a battened IMF.  Does he get
> >> > more boat speed out of his main sail than non-battened IMF people?
> >> >
> >> > I do not set my 4.2 kts. as the gold standard, just as the starting
> >> > point.  I would expect to be able to get 5 kts. under the right
> >> > conditions, but I doubt that I could get anywhere near 6.25 under IMF
> >> > main sail alone.
> >> >
> >> > Bill Effros
> >> >
> >> > P&M Beals wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Hello.  I was just going through email and saw this note...
> >> >> sounds great.
> >> >>
> >> >> May I ask do you have a traditional mainsail or the IMF?
> >> >>
> >> >> I bought a 1986 last summer with IMF, and I just feel that this boat
> > will
> >> >> sail even better with a traditional mainsail...
> >> >>
> >> >> I hope you  can give me a reply.
> >> >>
> >> >> Phyllis Beals
> >> >> Whisper
> >> >> Keyport, NJ
> >> >>
> >> >> By the way, where on the Hudson do you sail?
> >> >> Haverstraw Bay?
> >> >>
> >> >> I used to sail out of  Catskill Creek, Catskill on my father's gaff
> > rigged
> >> >> wooden sloop...this smaller fiberglass boat is a new experience for
> >> >> me,
> > but
> >> >> I am trying to hang in there with it.
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks again.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>> From: fnuttersny at aol.com
> >> >>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >> >>> Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 23:38:28 -0400
> >> >>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> >> >>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] on ballanced boat
> >> >>>
> >> >>> My 73 R22 is bare bones compared to most others on the list.  Two
> > batteries
> >> >>> located under the companion way and a 9.5 evinrud in the lazzarete
> > engine
> >> >>> well pretty much makes up my boat.  I basically set her up as a
very
> >> >>> comfortable day sailer. In this configuration the boat is slightly
> > stern
> >> >>> heavy.  I recently replaced the centerboard with a custom composit
> > airfoil
> >> >>> shaped board with no leading and trailing(the board has the same
> >> >>> width
> > over
> >> >>> its length) edge taper and 25# of bronze makingup the tip of the
> > board -the
> >> >>> board dropes quickly-. I have a new rolly-tasker main and a new
150%
> > head
> >> >>> sail
> >> >>> both hanked on..  I have to say that the boat performs fantastic.
In
> > 15 to
> >> >>> 20
> >> >>> mph wind and full sails there is almost no pressure on the tiller.
> > The boat
> >> >>> seams to dig her nose slightly down and the stern comes up.  I can
> >> >>> set
> > the
> >> >>> rudder with the tiller tamer and have held my coarse for up to 45
> >> >>> min.
> > As
> >> >>> the
> >> >>> wind picks up I usually stand on the rail up by the mast and hang
on
> > to  the
> >> >>> sta
> >> >>> ys and just look down as the boat sails herself falling of slightly
> > then
> >> >>> rounding up a little back an forth never more than a vew degrees
> > either way.
> >> >>> This is the first time I have sailed the boat with realy good sails
> > and
> >> >>> centerboard  etc. and the difference is everything I hoped it would
> > be.  I
> >> >>> believe this is a perfect boat for inland waters in my case the
> >> >>> Hudson
> >> >>> river.
> >> >>> I had four adults on board recently in a steady 25 mph wind. We sat
> > four in
> >> >>> a
> >> >>> row and the boat sailed at maybe 5deg.  We flew across the river
> > against a
> >> >>> flood tide still very little pressure on the rudder and very very
> > close to
> >> >>> the
> >> >>> wind.  My passengers thought I was brilliant the way I made the
boat
> > go
> >> >>> exactly were I wanted it to go and in quick time .  Thanks to a
great
> > design
> >> >>> and a vew up grades.
> >> >>> __________________________________________________
> >> >>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >> __________________________________________________
> >> >> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> > __________________________________________________
> >> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> >
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>
> __________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list