[Rhodes22-list] Cockpit Cushions
Bill Effros
bill at effros.com
Sat Aug 27 13:04:30 EDT 2005
Wally,
I interpreted Stan's Lament as a plea to get something for his troubles
(read "intellectual property"). When it came to selling the boat
off-list, everyone said sure, they thought other people should send Stan 5%.
What about copying his designs? Should Stan get 5% of his list price
when people use his designs as a template and make them for themselves?
I think we know each other well enough for you to know I do not intend
this as a personal attack on you. (Nor did I intend to attack Todd,
Lou, Roger, Alan, or any of the other people on this list who have used
Stan's designs as a template and not compensated Stan.)
I ask you this question as an honest inquiry to a lament posted by Stan,
and I ask you to think about it.
This is not an easy questions, and I am not "Mr. Clean" on this issue.
I steal intellectual property from others--just not from Stan.
Bill Effros
Wally Buck wrote:
> Bill, Thanks for your response. To clarify. I have cushions in cockpit
> now but they are shot. I do like the folding chairs but I would rather
> put that money toward new cushions.
>
> I was wondering if you added all of these other seating devices
> because the cushions were uncomfortable. Your first description of
> seating arrangements didn't mention comfort of cockpit cushions alone.
> Your solution would have me purchasing 2 Captains Chairs, 2 bean bag
> chairs, and 2 folding chairs from West along with all new cockpit
> cushions. That is not an option.
>
> i like an uncluttered cockpit as well as uncluttered cabin. Anne says
> her GB cushions are comfortable so that answered my question. :-)
>
> Wally
>
> Lawn is mowed - NOW I am off to lake!
>
>
>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Cockpit Cushions
>> Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 09:49:00 -0400
>>
>> Wally,
>>
>> I guess I never even considered sailing without cushions on the
>> fiberglass benches. Even though I frequently sail single handed, and
>> always sail from Captain's Seats, I always put out Stan's
>> cushions--every single time. They are part of the boat, as far as
>> I'm concerned. I think the proportions of everything are better for
>> sailing when the cushions are in place. Also, as noted previously, I
>> don't bang myself up as much with the cushions protecting me from
>> harder surfaces.
>>
>> I only sit on the cushions when hove-to, or at anchor, and I guess
>> they are comfortable, enough. But they are not as comfortable as the
>> cushions with bean bag chairs on top of them, or the cushions with
>> "Elton's" folding seats on top of them. (I never put the bean bag
>> chairs or folding seats directly on the fiberglass benches--that is
>> not as comfortable as Stan's cushions alone.)
>>
>> When guests come aboard my boat they always marvel at how comfortable
>> they all are--not just the person who grabs the other Captain's
>> seat. My boat has 6 comfortable seats while sailing. They are all
>> based on putting Stan's cockpit cushions over the hard benches.
>> Since I sail the boat upright, people do not shift back and forth
>> every time I tack. They find a comfortable seat, and stay in it for
>> the entire ride.
>>
>> My cockpit, with Stan's cushions and my additional seats, is more
>> comfortable for all of the passengers and crew than any other boat
>> I've ever been in.
>>
>> Bill Effros
>>
>> Wally Buck wrote:
>>
>>> I would be using Stan's cockpit cushions for seating. Are they
>>> confortable?
>>>
>>> Wally
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Cockpit Cushions
>>>> Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 09:37:29 -0400
>>>>
>>>> Wally,
>>>>
>>>> I have Stan's cockpit cushions. I almost never sit directly on
>>>> them. I generally sit in a captain's chair, with my feet on the
>>>> cushions. I also have 2 folding seats (available from West for
>>>> around $50), and 2 beanbag chairs purchased from the beanbag lady
>>>> at a boat show for around $75 each. All 6 seats can be comfortably
>>>> deployed simultaneously. Each seat is more comfortable than any
>>>> seat that comes standard in any sailboat I've ever been on.
>>>>
>>>> Stan's cushions fit perfectly, and have proved very durable. They
>>>> are 7 years old and still look brand new. I store them (along
>>>> with all the other seats) on the settee when not in use. I put
>>>> them out immediately every time I go on board. This takes around
>>>> 14 seconds. I like them for kneeling when I am pulling in anchors
>>>> or putting out fenders. Every now and again I kneel to do
>>>> something after I have put away the cushions. Boy those seats are
>>>> hard!
>>>>
>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>
>>>> Wally Buck wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Bill, It is hard to guess what I would want to spend. You need to
>>>>> determine production and shipping costs. From there add the
>>>>> desired mark up. That is the price. I am sure GB does not want to
>>>>> carry large cost for inventory. I would suspect that prices could
>>>>> be quoted for different sizes. Get quotes for 5, 10 25, each. I
>>>>> have no idea who to go to for "quotes" in China but it sounds like
>>>>> there might be folks on this list that do.
>>>>>
>>>>> Initially I would want new cockpit cushions with fill in. Also
>>>>> cabin cushions. I am considering doing this myself. I am also
>>>>> getting price locally. One drawbck to doing them myself is the
>>>>> most likely will look like crap. Having them done locally means I
>>>>> can test foam and not pay shipping. Ordering from GB means they
>>>>> will fit right but I don't want standard foam. In the cabin I want
>>>>> to go with 3 inches of foam with 1 inch of memory foam glued on
>>>>> top side. I have seen cushions made this way and they are great
>>>>> for sleeping and sitting. I am still working on best foam for
>>>>> cockpit (with fill in).
>>>>>
>>>>> Wally
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>>>>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Chinese Boom Rooms?
>>>>>> Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 10:02:44 -0400
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wally,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can you put numbers on your desires? I mean this quite
>>>>>> seriously. I know you use your boat, and I know you want to be
>>>>>> fair to Stan. At what price would you buy various items from
>>>>>> Stan? Which items would you be most interested in? What would
>>>>>> you be willing to pay? You will not be held to any of this--it
>>>>>> is just part of an exercise to see if what we all want can be done.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wally Buck wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you are asking me if I have a problem purchasing Chinese made
>>>>>>> boat parts from Stan ....If I place my order and send payment to
>>>>>>> Stan the source doesn't concern me too much. I would prefer to
>>>>>>> buy "USA" but I have owned many imported cars.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You also asked if price is holding me back from purchasing boat
>>>>>>> goodies from GB. The answer is yes. I would love to have new
>>>>>>> cabin cushions, new cockpit cushions, cokcpit fill-in cushions,
>>>>>>> pop-top enclosure, bimini. The boom room really doesn't interest
>>>>>>> me. We overnight quite a bit. If it is stormy we go in cabin. If
>>>>>>> it is nice we like the view from cockpit. We also swim and
>>>>>>> fish. I am trying to decide if I should spend the money on my
>>>>>>> R22 or perhaps sell and use the cash from all of those upgrades
>>>>>>> for .......
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I forgot, add the battened IMF to my wish list as well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wally
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>>>>>>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>> To: R22 List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Chinese Boom Rooms?
>>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 00:21:37 -0400
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Brad Haslett emailed me off-list regarding our discussion of
>>>>>>>> boom rooms, etc. which he has been following while vacationing
>>>>>>>> in China.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Brad asked if anyone would have an interest in his exploring
>>>>>>>> Chinese manufacture of Boom Rooms, Sails, Pop-Top Enclosures,
>>>>>>>> Cockpit and Cabin Cushions, Cockpit Fill in Boards, -- all the
>>>>>>>> little stuff the Chinese can make for a fraction of what it
>>>>>>>> costs to manufacture in the US.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have not asked Stan about this, and I don't think Brad has
>>>>>>>> either, however it goes without saying that if Stan doesn't
>>>>>>>> like the idea, Brad is not going to do it. Stan would make
>>>>>>>> money on every item made in China, and whatever he says is his
>>>>>>>> cut, that's what he'll get. There will be no negotiation on this.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But before he even begins the project, Brad wants to know how
>>>>>>>> the ultimate consumers feel about this idea. If Brad can set
>>>>>>>> up manufacturing in China with Stan's approval, would Rhodes
>>>>>>>> owners buy the Chinese made products?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Stan would have to provide the original patterns and
>>>>>>>> specifications, but that is all Stan would have to do. Brad
>>>>>>>> believes he can set up a reliable manufacturing operation in
>>>>>>>> China that will produce any of these products to Stan's
>>>>>>>> satisfaction at a lower cost than Stan can get them produced in
>>>>>>>> the US.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 5 of us indicated an interest in Boom Rooms. Me, Chris, Dave,
>>>>>>>> Bruce, and maybe Bob. (Did I miss anyone?) I would be willing
>>>>>>>> to be the guinea pig on this. How do the rest of you feel?
>>>>>>>> Bob, if we could bring the price down, at what price would you
>>>>>>>> be a player?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What about people who want Pop Top Enclosures, or Battened IMF
>>>>>>>> sails, or cockpit fill in cushions? Is there a price for these
>>>>>>>> items that would prompt you to take money out of your pocket
>>>>>>>> and put it on the table?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Look at Stan's options prices on his web site
>>>>>>>> (http://www.rhodes22.com/super_options.html). Is there
>>>>>>>> something you would actually buy if the price were lower? If
>>>>>>>> so, what would the price have to be?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Brad is returning to the US shortly, and doesn't have much time
>>>>>>>> to see if he can set up something like this. If you think this
>>>>>>>> is a terrible idea, please speak up quickly so we all know
>>>>>>>> where we stand.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think this is an interesting idea if Brad can actually do
>>>>>>>> it. It is something we can all do to put more money in Stan's
>>>>>>>> pocket right away, while buying parts for our boats at a lower
>>>>>>>> cost. It's a win-win...if Brad can pull it off.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Please note. Brad is a commercial airline pilot who no longer
>>>>>>>> owns a Rhodes 22. There is nothing in this deal for him. He
>>>>>>>> will always make more money flying an airplane than getting
>>>>>>>> involved in a crazy sailboat spare parts Chinese manufacturing
>>>>>>>> scheme. He just happens to be in China right now, saw Stan's
>>>>>>>> Lament, and asked if there was anything he could do to help.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>> __________________________________________________
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>
>
>
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