[Rhodes22-list] Nuclear Energy

[Stephen Staum]

Way to go Bill.  SS
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Nuclear Energy


> Roger,
>
> Of course I wonder why they want it.
>
> But that's not the point.
>
> You and others argued for the continued development of Nuclear Energy. 
> That carries with it the development of nuclear energy by other countries, 
> as well as us--meaning that everyone will figure out how to pack that 
> energy into very small packages that can be exported at will.  Pakistan, a 
> Muslim military dictatorship, has amply demonstrated this capability by 
> exporting bomb technology all over the world.
>
> The President of the United States claims our Social Security system is in 
> crisis because it will be underfunded in 75 years.  If we can look 75 
> years ahead, and plan for the future, why can't Iran or any other country 
> do the same thing?
>
> World problems are complex, and they are not solved by simplistic 
> thinking.  I can make a case for Nuclear Energy, however any case for 
> nuclear energy must address the fact that everyone who learns that 
> technology will inevitably also learn how to create devastating weapons 
> using the same knowledge.
>
> Nuclear weapons are one of the small number of genies that can be put back 
> into the bottle.  The whole world knew that Iraq didn't have them--only 
> the President of the United States claimed to have better information than 
> everyone else, justifying his invasion, at a time when weapons inspectors 
> on the ground said unequivocally that Iraq did not currently possess 
> nuclear weapons.
>
> Nuclear power plants can mask the presence of nuclear weapons.  That's why 
> Iran wants them.  You can't say that we should switch to nuclear energy, 
> but at the same time we should prevent everyone else from doing the same 
> thing.  Either nobody gets them, or everybody gets them.
>
> When push comes to shove, I think I fall on the side of nobody gets them. 
> We should work to develop other means to harness energy.  While we may run 
> out of oil, the current model of the universe predicts that we will always 
> have more energy than we can safely use.  Certainly we won't have to worry 
> about that for the next couple of billion years.
>
> So where do you fall?  Is nuclear energy too dangerous, or isn't it?  Is 
> it OK for Iran to have nuclear power plants, or not?  You can't have it 
> both ways, and people like you are the people who will decide how this 
> goes.  If you say the engineering equivalent of "Damn the torpedoes--full 
> speed ahead!" this world will be awash with nuclear weapons.  If you say 
> "We've got to do better!" you and others like you can work to find energy 
> sources that don't have the dangers attendant to nuclear energy.
>
> In a serious discussion of the matter, I don't see how you can take one 
> position with regard to "us" and a different position with regard to 
> "them".
>
> Bill Effros
>
>
> Roger Pihlaja wrote:
>
>>Bill,
>>
>>You have to wonder why they want it.  Iran is sitting on proven reserves 
>>of
>>about 1 trillion barrels of crude oil as well as copious quantities of
>>natural gas.  The country has excellent warm water, ice-free port 
>>facilities
>>to ship their crude oil and natural gas.  They have a pretty good
>>intra-country pipeline and refinery infrastructure.  They have zero 
>>reserves
>>of uranium.  At the present rate of energy production & given Iran's 
>>current
>>population, GDP, & growth rate, their proven fossil fuel reserves will
>>supply all their internal energy and export needs for the next 50-75 
>>years,
>>even if the country gets heavily into manufacturing petrochemicals like
>>polyethylene, polypropylene, nylon, etc.  That's enough time to build and
>>use up at least 1 generation of nuclear power plants before they are even
>>necessary.
>>
>>Gee, do you think maybe, just maybe, Iran has an alternate agenda here?
>>
>>Roger Pihlaja
>>S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
>>To: "R22 List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 1:52 PM
>>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Nucular Energy
>>
>>
>>
>>>Been meaning to ask.
>>>
>>>How 'bout that Iran?
>>>
>>>Do they get to have nuclear energy, too?
>>>
>>>Or is it only safe enough for us?
>>>
>>>Bill Effros
>>>__________________________________________________
>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>__________________________________________________
>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
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>>
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