[Rhodes22-list] Bob et al on recycled boats.

Wally Buck tnrhodey at hotmail.com
Sun Mar 6 08:51:02 EST 2005


Stephen,

I know what you mean. I was lucky enough to find a older R22 in great shape. 
I purchased my 84 from a private owner three or so years ago and I have not 
had single regret. I found a fresh water boat that had been on the hard for 
a year. It had an ok trailer, 96 6 hp 2 Stroke Merc (awesome little motor), 
Harken jib furler, brand new never used IMF and 125 jib. Older 155 jib and 
almost new spinnaker with pole. The boat was dirty (but dry) and in solid 
shape. The cabin was in great shape and only needed some new carpet on the 
sole.

GB purchased the boat from the first owner in the early 90s. GB then resold 
the used boat to the second owner. It has always been owned by retired 
northerners and really was never used much. I gave the engine a tuneup, and 
new impeller pump, added two cheap Walamrt Deep cycle batteries and a nice 
shore charger.

I was shooting for an older boat in the $5 - $7k range. I discussed a refurb 
with Stan but really did not want to take out a boat loan. The internet 
really opens up the boat market.

Wally


>From: "Stephen Staum" <staum at earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Bob et al on recycled boats.
>Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 14:34:06 -0500
>
>Well said, Roger.  I come away from all this realizing what a bargain I 
>got. I bought my '87 Rhodes two years ago (from the 2nd owner) for $6,000.  
>It came w/ a recently reconditioned IMF mainsail, working (albeit slightly 
>underpowered) 4 HP two stroke outboard, GBI furling 150% genoa, like new: 
>cockpit cushions, and pop-top canvas cover, clean interior (lake boat, 
>never used overnight, never been in salt water) meaning "like new": stove 
>and portapotti and never used fresh water tank and very low mileage 
>trailer.  It even came with a set of dishes!  After 2 seasons of use I sent 
>the jib out for some stiching and will replace a fraying forestay (cost for 
>both about $200).  When funds permit, I hope to upgrade to a 8 HP four 
>stroke outboard which will be more suited to the coastal ocean sailing that 
>I do (about $1800).  The only other expenses have been:  bottom paint 
>($56), hand held GPS ($175), hand held VHF ($125), gas grill ($150), flares 
>and fire extinguisher ($50), misc fenders and docklines ($75), binoculars 
>($50) and solar panel to charge the battery ($28).  Altogether it is a 
>pretty cheap thrill for a lot of great sailing.  I highly recommend a well 
>equipped, well maintained older boat for anyone on a budget - if you can 
>find one.  No, mine is not for sale.
>
>Stephen Staum
>"Carol Lee"
>'87 Rhodes 22
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Pihlaja" 
><cen09402 at centurytel.net>
>To: "Peter Thorn" <pthorn at nc.rr.com>; "The Rhodes 22 mail list" 
><rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 10:13 AM
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Bob et al on recycled boats.
>
>
>>To lurkers and prospective buyers:
>>
>>Anyone who's read the Rhodes List for any period of time &/or looked at 
>>the
>>Rhodes 22 FAQ website knows I am guilty of being totally out of control 
>>when
>>it comes to upgrades on Dynamic Equilibrium, our 1976 Rhodes 22.  Sure, 
>>I'm
>>an engineer, with a lot of tools, good facilities, and many hands-on 
>>skills.
>>But, I'm not fooling myself that all of my craftsmanship and hard work is
>>ever going to pay off when it comes time to sell the boat.  Remember, a 
>>boat
>>is a luxury toy, not an investment which appreciates in value.  I upgrade 
>>my
>>boat myself because I enjoy the mental challenge of designing stuff for it
>>that makes it work better, I enjoy working with my hands, I'm very
>>meticulous and patient, and I enjoy learning new skills.  (That's Mr. Nerd
>>to you!)  When I purchase some upgrade from Stan, I'm really saying, "Good
>>job!  I couldn't have engineered or built this any better myself."  But,
>>remember, I live right on Sanford Lake.  During the summer, my boat is
>>docked in a slip in my backyard.  So, I don't have a problem with getting
>>enough time on the water.  If I want to work on something on the boat, I 
>>can
>>either walk out to my boat slip or pull the boat out of the water at my
>>subdivision's launch ramp just up the road.  In Michigan, we have these 
>>long
>>snowy winters during which to design and build "stuff".  But, even with 
>>all
>>these advantages, building stuff for the boat tends to fall into the
>>nonprofitable "hobby" category vs. something that could be reliably 
>>expected
>>to increase resale value.
>>
>>Building boat stuff is time consuming and requires certain skills.
>>Knowledge and skills are always the most expensive of human capital.  The
>>spaces where you often have to work tend to be cramped, hot, poorly
>>ventilated, and there's hardly a flat surface or right angle in sight.
>>Epoxy and fiberglass are not the most pleasant materials to work with.
>>These observations are as true in your home workshop as they are in Stan's
>>workshops at GBI.     If you are like me, with a "hobby" mindset; then,
>>working on the boat is also a fun activity in and of itself and I pick up
>>new skills in the process.  But, if you resent the time that working on 
>>the
>>boat subtracts from time spent on the water and you have a sufficiently 
>>high
>>paying career to even be able to consider a boat in the 1st place; then,
>>before you take on a project boat, consider what your time is worth.  When
>>you realistically compare what you could recycle a boat for in terms of
>>your, fairly valued, time and purchased materials vs. the price Stan 
>>offers
>>his recycled boats for; then, GBI's prices begin to look pretty 
>>attractive.
>>Plus, with a recycled boat from GBI, you get a warranty!
>>
>>Roger Pihlaja
>>S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Peter Thorn" <pthorn at nc.rr.com>
>>To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 8:37 AM
>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Bob et al on recycled boats.
>>
>>
>>>To lurkers and prospective buyers:
>>>
>>>Ed is absolutely correct.  The boat business is tough for custom builders
>>>and there is no free lunch for buyers.  In my case, attempting to
>>>auto-recycle an old Rhodes to my Champaign tastes, I discovered that the
>>sum
>>>of the parts is actually more expensive than a whole good older boat (if
>>you
>>>can find one) -- so I decided to bite the bullet and not spend any more
>>time
>>>off the water than necessary.  As a renovation and remodeling contractor,
>>I
>>>have handy skills and also have employees who can paint and do fine 
>>>finish
>>>work -- but the numbers just didn't work for me.  Stan has an efficient
>>>operation in a low wage part of NC, and still must charge upwards of
>>$27,000
>>>for a new boat and $15,000 for a great recycled boat. He delivers value,
>>>even though to most such toys are out of reach.  Otherwise, Stan's 
>>>biggest
>>>problems would not be in production -- they would be sales.
>>>
>>>PT
>>>R22 Raven
>>>R22 Phoenix
>>>Chapel Hill, NC
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "ed kroposki" <ekroposki at charter.net>
>>>To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 8:02 AM
>>>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Bob et al on recycled boats.
>>>
>>>
>>>Yes, the price of recycled boats has apparently gone up.  The price
>>>and availability of replacement parts has changed.  Keep in mind that 
>>>Stan
>>>is guarantying certain things in a recycled boat.  Whenever he finds
>>>something that needs to be replaced, he also finds the cost have gone up.
>>>Further aggravating him is that he has outlived so many suppliers.  He 
>>>has
>>>to spend a lot of time just finding suitable replacement parts.
>>>When you get a recycled boat, you get serviceable sails.  Each year
>>>sail prices have gone up.  How much does it cost to replace sheets and
>>>lines?
>>>The price and availability of hulls has gone up.  Furthermore, the
>>>hull usually has extensive rework.  Moreover, purchasers of the recycled
>>>boats can be overly demanding on Stan.
>>>Most purchasers of used sailboats do not have the engineering skills
>>>of Roger or Bob or Todd.  In addition, even those with the skills soon
>>find
>>>that they have underestimated the time to do the necessary work, just ask
>>>Peter Thorn.
>>>Contrary to statements by most sellers of used sailboats, a used
>>>sailboat will require substantial additional cash.  Either you pay it to
>>>Stan or keep reaching deeper in your wallet....
>>>
>>>Ed K
>>>Greenville, SC, USA
>>>Addendum:  You will not have to put up with this source of diatribe after
>>>today for a while.
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Linda Burdett
>>>Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 11:37 PM
>>>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] looking for rhodes 22
>>>
>>>Nope!!! evidently they start at 15 and go up!!!! Linda
>>>
>>>Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:Isn't 10-15k in the recycled
>>>Rhodes range?
>>>
>>> >>> lcathy at sbcglobal.net 03/03/05 2:31 PM >>>
>>>Rob, good point!! Price range about 10-15 thousand. Want it to have the
>>IMF,
>>>marine toilet and bimini along with basics that the rhodes usually have. 
>>>I
>>>live in MO and would consider meeting half way or......Thanks, Linda
>>>
>>>Rob Lowe wrote:Linda,
>>>Before anyone else jumps in to ask, how about some more information. 
>>>Price
>>>range? Location? Other desires? There are a couple available.
>>>
>>>Rob Lowe
>>>S/V Getaway
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Linda Burdett"
>>>To:
>>>Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 11:52 AM
>>>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] looking for rhodes 22
>>>
>>>
>>> > I am new to the list. Stan suggested I post here to find a pre-owned
>>>rhodes for sale. Information would be great. Thanks, Linda Burdett
>>> > __________________________________________________
>>> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>
>>>__________________________________________________
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>>>
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>>>
>>>__________________________________________________
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>>>
>>>__________________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>>__________________________________________________
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>>>
>>>__________________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>__________________________________________________
>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
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