[Rhodes22-list] Bob et al on recycled boats.

[Stephen Staum]

Well said, Roger.  I come away from all this realizing what a bargain I got. 
I bought my '87 Rhodes two years ago (from the 2nd owner) for $6,000.  It 
came w/ a recently reconditioned IMF mainsail, working (albeit slightly 
underpowered) 4 HP two stroke outboard, GBI furling 150% genoa, like new: 
cockpit cushions, and pop-top canvas cover, clean interior (lake boat, never 
used overnight, never been in salt water) meaning "like new": stove and 
portapotti and never used fresh water tank and very low mileage trailer.  It 
even came with a set of dishes!  After 2 seasons of use I sent the jib out 
for some stiching and will replace a fraying forestay (cost for both about 
$200).  When funds permit, I hope to upgrade to a 8 HP four stroke outboard 
which will be more suited to the coastal ocean sailing that I do (about 
$1800).  The only other expenses have been:  bottom paint ($56), hand held 
GPS ($175), hand held VHF ($125), gas grill ($150), flares and fire 
extinguisher ($50), misc fenders and docklines ($75), binoculars ($50) and 
solar panel to charge the battery ($28).  Altogether it is a pretty cheap 
thrill for a lot of great sailing.  I highly recommend a well equipped, well 
maintained older boat for anyone on a budget - if you can find one.  No, 
mine is not for sale.

Stephen Staum
"Carol Lee"
'87 Rhodes 22

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Roger Pihlaja" <cen09402 at centurytel.net>
To: "Peter Thorn" <pthorn at nc.rr.com>; "The Rhodes 22 mail list" 
<rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Bob et al on recycled boats.


> To lurkers and prospective buyers:
>
> Anyone who's read the Rhodes List for any period of time &/or looked at 
> the
> Rhodes 22 FAQ website knows I am guilty of being totally out of control 
> when
> it comes to upgrades on Dynamic Equilibrium, our 1976 Rhodes 22.  Sure, 
> I'm
> an engineer, with a lot of tools, good facilities, and many hands-on 
> skills.
> But, I'm not fooling myself that all of my craftsmanship and hard work is
> ever going to pay off when it comes time to sell the boat.  Remember, a 
> boat
> is a luxury toy, not an investment which appreciates in value.  I upgrade 
> my
> boat myself because I enjoy the mental challenge of designing stuff for it
> that makes it work better, I enjoy working with my hands, I'm very
> meticulous and patient, and I enjoy learning new skills.  (That's Mr. Nerd
> to you!)  When I purchase some upgrade from Stan, I'm really saying, "Good
> job!  I couldn't have engineered or built this any better myself."  But,
> remember, I live right on Sanford Lake.  During the summer, my boat is
> docked in a slip in my backyard.  So, I don't have a problem with getting
> enough time on the water.  If I want to work on something on the boat, I 
> can
> either walk out to my boat slip or pull the boat out of the water at my
> subdivision's launch ramp just up the road.  In Michigan, we have these 
> long
> snowy winters during which to design and build "stuff".  But, even with 
> all
> these advantages, building stuff for the boat tends to fall into the
> nonprofitable "hobby" category vs. something that could be reliably 
> expected
> to increase resale value.
>
> Building boat stuff is time consuming and requires certain skills.
> Knowledge and skills are always the most expensive of human capital.  The
> spaces where you often have to work tend to be cramped, hot, poorly
> ventilated, and there's hardly a flat surface or right angle in sight.
> Epoxy and fiberglass are not the most pleasant materials to work with.
> These observations are as true in your home workshop as they are in Stan's
> workshops at GBI.     If you are like me, with a "hobby" mindset; then,
> working on the boat is also a fun activity in and of itself and I pick up
> new skills in the process.  But, if you resent the time that working on 
> the
> boat subtracts from time spent on the water and you have a sufficiently 
> high
> paying career to even be able to consider a boat in the 1st place; then,
> before you take on a project boat, consider what your time is worth.  When
> you realistically compare what you could recycle a boat for in terms of
> your, fairly valued, time and purchased materials vs. the price Stan 
> offers
> his recycled boats for; then, GBI's prices begin to look pretty 
> attractive.
> Plus, with a recycled boat from GBI, you get a warranty!
>
> Roger Pihlaja
> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Thorn" <pthorn at nc.rr.com>
> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 8:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Bob et al on recycled boats.
>
>
>> To lurkers and prospective buyers:
>>
>> Ed is absolutely correct.  The boat business is tough for custom builders
>> and there is no free lunch for buyers.  In my case, attempting to
>> auto-recycle an old Rhodes to my Champaign tastes, I discovered that the
> sum
>> of the parts is actually more expensive than a whole good older boat (if
> you
>> can find one) -- so I decided to bite the bullet and not spend any more
> time
>> off the water than necessary.  As a renovation and remodeling contractor,
> I
>> have handy skills and also have employees who can paint and do fine 
>> finish
>> work -- but the numbers just didn't work for me.  Stan has an efficient
>> operation in a low wage part of NC, and still must charge upwards of
> $27,000
>> for a new boat and $15,000 for a great recycled boat. He delivers value,
>> even though to most such toys are out of reach.  Otherwise, Stan's 
>> biggest
>> problems would not be in production -- they would be sales.
>>
>> PT
>> R22 Raven
>> R22 Phoenix
>> Chapel Hill, NC
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "ed kroposki" <ekroposki at charter.net>
>> To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 8:02 AM
>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Bob et al on recycled boats.
>>
>>
>> Yes, the price of recycled boats has apparently gone up.  The price
>> and availability of replacement parts has changed.  Keep in mind that 
>> Stan
>> is guarantying certain things in a recycled boat.  Whenever he finds
>> something that needs to be replaced, he also finds the cost have gone up.
>> Further aggravating him is that he has outlived so many suppliers.  He 
>> has
>> to spend a lot of time just finding suitable replacement parts.
>> When you get a recycled boat, you get serviceable sails.  Each year
>> sail prices have gone up.  How much does it cost to replace sheets and
>> lines?
>> The price and availability of hulls has gone up.  Furthermore, the
>> hull usually has extensive rework.  Moreover, purchasers of the recycled
>> boats can be overly demanding on Stan.
>> Most purchasers of used sailboats do not have the engineering skills
>> of Roger or Bob or Todd.  In addition, even those with the skills soon
> find
>> that they have underestimated the time to do the necessary work, just ask
>> Peter Thorn.
>> Contrary to statements by most sellers of used sailboats, a used
>> sailboat will require substantial additional cash.  Either you pay it to
>> Stan or keep reaching deeper in your wallet....
>>
>> Ed K
>> Greenville, SC, USA
>> Addendum:  You will not have to put up with this source of diatribe after
>> today for a while.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Linda Burdett
>> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 11:37 PM
>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] looking for rhodes 22
>>
>> Nope!!! evidently they start at 15 and go up!!!! Linda
>>
>> Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:Isn't 10-15k in the recycled
>> Rhodes range?
>>
>> >>> lcathy at sbcglobal.net 03/03/05 2:31 PM >>>
>> Rob, good point!! Price range about 10-15 thousand. Want it to have the
> IMF,
>> marine toilet and bimini along with basics that the rhodes usually have. 
>> I
>> live in MO and would consider meeting half way or......Thanks, Linda
>>
>> Rob Lowe wrote:Linda,
>> Before anyone else jumps in to ask, how about some more information. 
>> Price
>> range? Location? Other desires? There are a couple available.
>>
>> Rob Lowe
>> S/V Getaway
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Linda Burdett"
>> To:
>> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 11:52 AM
>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] looking for rhodes 22
>>
>>
>> > I am new to the list. Stan suggested I post here to find a pre-owned
>> rhodes for sale. Information would be great. Thanks, Linda Burdett
>> > __________________________________________________
>> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>
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>
>
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