[Rhodes22-list]Public Schools, was Public Radio and TV

[brad haslett]

Slim,

This reply is in no particular order - random at best.


Let's start with your wife.  Chances are she's a very
dedicated teacher, loves her students, and is a
"natural" at her chosen profession.  That was my
experience in a public school system.  If I ran the
world we'd pay teachers twice what they now earn if
not more, and have half the administrators.  Based on
the experience of growing up in a place that would
make Lake Wobegone look like a city, leaving teachers
alone to do their job, and only intervening when they
are proven to be grossly negligent works.  Why do
private schools seemingly do a better job on half the
funding of the public schools?  They let them teach
whatever their area of expertise is, don't tolerate
disrespect, don't load the students up with
non-essential courses, and give students a realistic
and honest assessment of their performance.

Here's my experience a teacher. (Put on Tobey Keith's
"It's All About Me" for background music). I worked my
way through college teaching people how to fly.  My
students were mostly problem children that other
instructors couldn't get along with.  Doctors,
Lawyers, Businessmen.  I made a deal with them right
up front - don't tell me how to fly, something I know
how to do and you don't, and I won't tell you how to
perform surgery, etc.  It worked.  Students need to
know who's in charge and what's expected of them.  I
don't give-a-shit whether they're 4 or 40.  We've
dumbed the system down to the point that kids think
they only have to put in their time and they are good
to go.  Bullshit!  Empower teachers to do what they
already know what to do.  School boards need to tell
some parents to F/O.  "Your little junior is an
asshole and if you show up here one more time
complaining, we're kicking his precious little
pampered ass out!"  This is exactly what the private
schools do, and public schools in small towns 
function like private schools.

"I have no idea what Keynesian means"(Slim).  Uh, yea
Slim, that was, uh,  John Maynard Keynes, and he uh,
said, uh, something about money, and stuff, and...
I've had about twelve hours of economics between
undergrad and grad school and remember something about
"guns and butter" and Thomas Malthus saying "in the
long run we'll all be dead."  Keynes is dead.

Teaching the test is a problem.  There's a great book
on the best seller list right now called
"Freakonomics".  I'll bring it to MSP and loan it to
you.  One chapter deals with the test cheaters.  It is
a problem and defeats the purpose of NCLB.  When I got
my basic keelboat and coastal sailing certification I
reamed my instructors ass for not preparing me for the
written test.  I told him "listen buddy, the next time
you get a pilot as a student, you drill him on the
answer to question 42 is B, don't send him in
expecting him to actually know the material!"  Making
teachers accountable for test scores in the short term
is the same problem business has with only
concentrating on the next quartly profit.  You have to
think long term.

Unions.  Slim, I'm union.  Let's go there tomorrow.

- "Funny he should mention that because as I see it,
racism and classism are STILL at the heart of the
problem". - OK, here's where I piss everyone off on
the list.  I'm Irish, Fan is a Chink, and Cora is a
"Chinklish"?  The race card is way overplayed.  Yeah,
Yeah, Yeah, you got dealt a bad card, get over it!
Learn English, work your ass off, provide for your
kids. It worked for Jews, Chinese, Vietnamese, the "no
dogs or Irishmen allowed" (think Kennedys), and
everyone else in this country.  I AM the minority in
Memphis - don't blame me for your problems, you've had
the reins of government in this city for two decades
now.

Oops.

Better go now, getting a bit cynical.  We'll solve
this tomorrow.

Brad

 
--- Slim <salm at mn.rr.com> wrote:

> Brad,
> 
> I well remember your earlier story of Father Tribou
> and I'm happy that it
> worked out for your son.  IMO, going back to the
> basics is never wrong.  But
> throwing the baby out with the bathwater IS wrong
> and that's what I see
> happening with regards to public schools.  We need
> to fix it, not scrap it.
> Maybe it's just me, living here in Lake Wobegone,
> where all the children are
> above average.  We have great schools here where
> grades and grad rates are
> among the highest in the nation.
> 
> That said, I'd be lying by omission if I didn't
> mention that my wife, who
> teaches inner city St. Paul, isn't fed up with her
> job and wants to quit.  I
> don't blame her.  Get this:  her school is a special
> ed "magnet" school
> which means they try to attract additional special
> ed kids because they've
> (supposedly, but not really) got the facilities to
> deal with that.  Well,
> guess what their test score averages are?  They're
> low.  Duh?  So what does
> the district do?  Threaten to close the school for
> being dysfunctional
> because the test scores are low when they're a
> special ed magnet.  Who's
> being dysfunctional here?  Meanwhile, here's Mary
> Ann in class with a boat
> load of special ed kids that disrupt the class
> constantly and prevent the
> rest from leaning anything.  Those private schools
> are looking better and
> better all the time--I don't disagree.
> 
> But let's move on the the WSJ article.
> 
> 40 years ago, when
> > Southern segregationists did their best to evade
> the
> > desegregation requirements of Lyndon Johnson's
> > original law offering federal aid for education.
> 
> Funny he should mention that because as I see it,
> racism and classism are
> STILL at the heart of the problem.
> 
>  Indeed, virtually every federal program is
> > funded below its authorized level. Were the courts
> to
> > accept the NEA claim and compel all appropriations
> to
> > equal authorized limits, the federal deficit would
> > immediately balloon to levels beyond the wildest
> > imagination of the most unabashed Keynesian.
> 
> This is a pretty lame argument, but I have no idea
> what Keynesian means.
> 
> 
> testing is one of the best bargains in
> > education. Nationwide, cost estimates have run as
> low
> > as $9 per student,
> 
> Baloney!  He's not factoring in the time required to
> prepare students and
> "teach to the test" and saying nothing of the time
> lost teaching core
> curriculum.
> 
>  the costs of more popular
> > tutoring options have so far been covered in full
> by
> > Federal dollars.
> 
> More baloney.  That is absolutely false.
> 
>  according
> > to the most recent results from the National
> > Assessment of Educational Progress, 17-year-olds
> score
> > no better today than they did in 1970. In other
> words,
> > the doubling of real expenditures has borne little
> > educational fruit. That is the scandal No Child
> Left
> > Behind is attempting to address.
> 
> I don't dispute this data, but I think the reason is
> because we're inundated
> with nothing but gimmicks and quick fixes.  NCLB is
> no different.  It's not
> a fix.  It won't improve grad rates or anything
> else.  At best, all it does
> is identify what we've already identified:  poor
> kids do poorly.  And
> schools need to pay money for that information?
> 
> 
> > 
> > Yet educating the neediest of our young remains
> the
> > civil rights issue of our time. The Southerners
> who
> > resisted integration found themselves on the wrong
> > side of history. Fortunately, most Southern
> governors
> > have figured this out. It will be a great day for
> all
> > children when teachers unions do so as well.
> 
> Ah, so it's the unions to blame.  The republican
> battle cry!  The union is
> made up of teachers and what would they know about
> teaching?
> > 
> > Mr. West is a research associate at Harvard's
> Program
> > on Education Policy and Governance, of which Mr.
> > Peterson, Henry Lee Shattuck Professor of
> Government,
> > is director.
> > 
> > URL for this article:
> >
>
http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB111465878943419249,00.html
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Copyright 2005 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All
> Rights
> > Reserved  
> > 
> > This copy is for your personal, non-commercial use
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> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- Slim <salm at mn.rr.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> Philip,
> >> 
> >> Why are you against public schools?  I admit,
> there
> >> are many problems,
> >> mostly caused by union-bashing, fund-cutting
> >> republicans; but the public
> >> schools are our best resource, period.  Shouldn't
> we
> >> be giving our youth the
> >> best that we can?  Private schools cost money
> that
> >> most do not need to pay.
> >> The public system is as good as the funding. 
> Offer
> >> a decent wage and you
> >> attract decent teachers.  Where I live,
> Minnesota,
> >> the average life-span of
> >> a new teacher is three years before they find
> better
> >> pay/conditions
> >> elsewhere.  It's abysmal.  It's a very tough job.
>  I
> >> know - been there, done
> >> that.  Have you?
> >> 
> >> It's easy to sit back and complain, but consider
> >> this:  The law requires
> >> specifically mandated curriculum but doesn't fund
> >> it, and so private schools
> >> have to send students to the public schools for
> >> whatever they can't provide,
> >> e.g., special ed, phy ed, science, or whatever. 
> And
> >> then the public schools
> >> have to take these students, for which they are
> NOT
> >> paid, and provide
> >> service because it's the law.  Private schools
> want
> >> to have their cake and
> >> eat it too.  It's just not fair because it puts
> the
> 
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