[Rhodes22-list]Public Schools, was Public Radio and TV

Fri May 27 12:28:35 EDT 2005

Keynesian is an economic theory that means the government should balance the
budget in good times and run deficits in bad times to stimulate the economy
(a very simplified explaination).

Philip

-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]On Behalf Of Slim
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 11:00 PM
To: Rhodes
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list]Public Schools, was Public Radio and TV

Brad,

I well remember your earlier story of Father Tribou and I'm happy that it
worked out for your son.  IMO, going back to the basics is never wrong.  But
throwing the baby out with the bathwater IS wrong and that's what I see
happening with regards to public schools.  We need to fix it, not scrap it.
Maybe it's just me, living here in Lake Wobegone, where all the children are
above average.  We have great schools here where grades and grad rates are
among the highest in the nation.

That said, I'd be lying by omission if I didn't mention that my wife, who
teaches inner city St. Paul, isn't fed up with her job and wants to quit.  I
don't blame her.  Get this:  her school is a special ed "magnet" school
which means they try to attract additional special ed kids because they've
(supposedly, but not really) got the facilities to deal with that.  Well,
guess what their test score averages are?  They're low.  Duh?  So what does
the district do?  Threaten to close the school for being dysfunctional
because the test scores are low when they're a special ed magnet.  Who's
being dysfunctional here?  Meanwhile, here's Mary Ann in class with a boat
load of special ed kids that disrupt the class constantly and prevent the
rest from leaning anything.  Those private schools are looking better and
better all the time--I don't disagree.

But let's move on the the WSJ article.

40 years ago, when
> Southern segregationists did their best to evade the
> desegregation requirements of Lyndon Johnson's
> original law offering federal aid for education.

Funny he should mention that because as I see it, racism and classism are
STILL at the heart of the problem.

 Indeed, virtually every federal program is
> funded below its authorized level. Were the courts to
> accept the NEA claim and compel all appropriations to
> equal authorized limits, the federal deficit would
> immediately balloon to levels beyond the wildest
> imagination of the most unabashed Keynesian.

This is a pretty lame argument, but I have no idea what Keynesian means.

testing is one of the best bargains in
> education. Nationwide, cost estimates have run as low
> as $9 per student,

Baloney!  He's not factoring in the time required to prepare students and
"teach to the test" and saying nothing of the time lost teaching core
curriculum.

 the costs of more popular
> tutoring options have so far been covered in full by
> Federal dollars.

More baloney.  That is absolutely false.

 according
> to the most recent results from the National
> Assessment of Educational Progress, 17-year-olds score
> no better today than they did in 1970. In other words,
> the doubling of real expenditures has borne little
> educational fruit. That is the scandal No Child Left
> Behind is attempting to address.

I don't dispute this data, but I think the reason is because we're inundated
with nothing but gimmicks and quick fixes.  NCLB is no different.  It's not
a fix.  It won't improve grad rates or anything else.  At best, all it does
is identify what we've already identified:  poor kids do poorly.  And
schools need to pay money for that information?

>
> Yet educating the neediest of our young remains the
> civil rights issue of our time. The Southerners who
> resisted integration found themselves on the wrong
> side of history. Fortunately, most Southern governors
> have figured this out. It will be a great day for all
> children when teachers unions do so as well.

Ah, so it's the unions to blame.  The republican battle cry!  The union is
made up of teachers and what would they know about teaching?
>
> Mr. West is a research associate at Harvard's Program
> on Education Policy and Governance, of which Mr.
> Peterson, Henry Lee Shattuck Professor of Government,
> is director.
>
> URL for this article:
> http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB111465878943419249,00.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Copyright 2005 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights
> Reserved
>
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>
>
>
>
> --- Slim <salm at mn.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> Philip,
>>
>> Why are you against public schools?  I admit, there
>> are many problems,
>> mostly caused by union-bashing, fund-cutting
>> republicans; but the public
>> schools are our best resource, period.  Shouldn't we
>> be giving our youth the
>> best that we can?  Private schools cost money that
>> most do not need to pay.
>> The public system is as good as the funding.  Offer
>> a decent wage and you
>> attract decent teachers.  Where I live, Minnesota,
>> the average life-span of
>> a new teacher is three years before they find better
>> pay/conditions
>> elsewhere.  It's abysmal.  It's a very tough job.  I
>> know - been there, done
>> that.  Have you?
>>
>> It's easy to sit back and complain, but consider
>> this:  The law requires
>> specifically mandated curriculum but doesn't fund
>> it, and so private schools
>> have to send students to the public schools for
>> whatever they can't provide,
>> e.g., special ed, phy ed, science, or whatever.  And
>> then the public schools
>> have to take these students, for which they are NOT
>> paid, and provide
>> service because it's the law.  Private schools want
>> to have their cake and
>> eat it too.  It's just not fair because it puts the
>> public schools in a
>> deeper hole than they're already in.  If you want to
>> send your kid to
>> private school, fine, but don't send him to the
>> public school for gym.  But
>> you'll have to change the law first.
>>
>> What really bugs me is that everybody thinks they're
>> an expert, e.g.,
>> legislators, governors, parents--none of whom have
>> ever set foot in a
>> classroom.  They keep coming up with nothing but
>> educational gimmicks that
>> do nothing but waste the valuable time and money of
>> teachers.
>>
>> Philip, teaching a kid to read is not rocket
>> science, but it becomes
>> Herculean without the proper resources.  If you want
>> to see our public
>> system collapse, we'll be putting our youth and
>> therefore our country at a
>> disadvantage.  Privatizing leads to nothing but
>> discrimination and elitism.
>> Is that what you really want for our country--even
>> more of the "haves" and
>> the "have-nots?"  Should we abandon our nation's
>> entire educational
>> infrastructure to accommodate you and yours?
>>
>> Slim
>>
>> On 5/25/05 10:06 PM, "Philip Esteban"
>> <3drecon at comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I am totally against public education in its
>> current form.  Any parent who
>>> wants their child well educated will NOT send them
>> to public school.  As for
>>> PBS, if you do not detect the left wing near
>> communist, praise Castro bias,
>>> then you might want to examine your own leanings.
>>>
>>> Philip
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]On
>> Behalf Of Saroj Gilbert
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 8:58 AM
>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Public Radio and TV
>>>
>>>
>>> Heavens, I don't even know how to respond to
>> this.. may have to leave it up
>>> to the eloquence of Stan...
>>>
>>> Are you saying that public radio promotes
>> communism and socialism?
>>> Are you saying that public radio and TV promote
>> control of individuals?
>>> They are promoting the control of the point of
>> view of the masses?
>>> They are somehow disdaining individual freedom?
>>>
>>> That they are biased in some way I would grant
>> you... it is impossible to be
>>> a human being or an organization of any kind and
>> not be biased... you are
>>> too... we all are.. it is the nature of being a
>> human being...or group of
>>> human beings...  I've been listening to NPR for
>> years, and I never picked up
>>> on this... hmmm... just dense maybe.. somehow
>> intellectually defective?  I
>>> find them innovative, focused on presenting
>> representation of the arts in a
>>> way that can't be found anywhere else, whether
>> literature, drama, music.
>>>
>>> Why don't you suggest they read Natan Saransky's
>> book on Democracy.... they
>>> no doubt would... maybe I should read it... I
>> haven't...
>>>
>>> However if you are concerned about control of the
>> individual then you MUST
>>> be against public education... that is the biggest
>> and most incidious form
>>> of it we have in this country..  I know I am.
>>>
>>> Saroj
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "ed kroposki" <ekroposki at charter.net>
>>> To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'"
>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 8:28 AM
>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Public Radio and TV
>>>
>>>
>>> Saroj:
>>> Unfortunately your public radio and TV often
>> promotes a control the
>>> masses point of view.  Communism and socialism are
>> political positions used
>>> to control individuals.  Big business is corporate
>> control of the
>>> individual.  Public radio promotes the same thesis
>> of controlling the
>>> individual.
>>> Individual freedom whether political, educational,
>> business is
>>> distained by your public media. Public Radio or TV
>> promotes only the view
>>> which represent their biased point of view.
>>> Has radio reader ever read Natan Saransky's book
>> on Democracy?  Have
>>> they promoted writers who espouse individual
>> freedoms?
>>> They advocate just another form of bigness...
>>>
>>> Ed Kroposki
>>> Greenville, SC, USA
>>> Addendum:  "As I would not be a slave, so I would
>> not be a master.  This
>>> expresses my idea of democracy.  Whatever differ
>> from this, to the extent of
>>> difference, is no democracy."  A. Lincoln
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On
>> Behalf Of Saroj Gilbert
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 7:01 AM
>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Re: Commitment to war
>>>
>>> So we can have a source of news that isn't
>> massaged to meet the demands of
>>> the corporate advertisers....
>>> So we aren't bombarded by commercials...
>>> So we can listen to the BBC...
>>> So we can experience innovation that isn't
>> dependent on commercially
>>> dictated norms...
>>>
>>> It is mostly subscriber-supported and grant
>> supported anyhow... but you'll
>>> notice more and more that it receives a lot of
>> commercial support too so it
>>> may not be able to maintain its independence.
>>>
>>> Saroj
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Philip Esteban" <3drecon at comcast.net>
>>> To: "'stan'" <stan at rhodes22.com>; "'The Rhodes 22
>> mail list'"
>>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 10:09 PM
>>> Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Re: Commitment to war
>>>
>>>
>>>> Why, with hundreds of channels available are we
>> funding public radio and
>>>> television, but we are told we need our taxes
>> raised
> === message truncated ===
>
>
>
>
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