[Rhodes22-list] stirring the hornet's nest.... (political)

Tue Nov 15 12:17:37 EST 2005

Cheryl,

Your logical process is amazing. Since we don't have "support" for the war now, then the intelligence must have been lacking? Wow, that's a hoot. How about attributing some of the lack of support to the nonsense propoganda that folks like you have been spouting.

We weren't there to protect "national treasures" (most of which have now been recovered). Our troops had personal armor and armored vehicles, in spite of the propoganda otherwise (I know, I talk to folks that were there, reguarly, do you?). Yes, there were shortages, but here's a news flash for you, there are ALWAYS shortages in war. Go talk to some vets from any other war, and you'll find that to be true.

As far as the "failure to secure the peace", that will be an ongoing job for years to come, as it was in virtually every war ever fought. We will only have "failed" in that respect, if we leave before we're finished.

Again, youre logic is amazing. We're successful, but it's not because of what the administration is doing. If it's not because of them, then who DO you attribute it to? Kerry? Clinton(s)? Maybe Michael Moore.

The sad fact is, the things the right have said and predicted are happening, and left is so frustrated in their inability to stop it. The only thing left for them it to cry and moan and scream foul.

Too bad, so said. I'm enjoying the sideshow though.

Herb Parsons

S/V O'Jure
  1976 O'Day 25
  Lake Grapevine, N TX

S/V Reve de Papa
  1971 Coronado 35
  Lake Pontchartrain, Louisiana Coast

>>> cheryl.ogrady at mail.com 11/15/2005 11:59:02 AM >>>
Herb, 
How about the failure to provide personal armor or armored vehicles for our troops?  How about allowing the looting of national treasures, world treasures, from the national museum?  How about the failure to secure the peace after we took down the regime?  

I don't disagree that getting any kind of a vote is certainly laudable.  I don't disagree that a constitution is also a good thing.  But the total anarchy that reigned in many parts of Iraq because we didn't have enough boots on the ground (as recommended by the people who knew the area) seems to me pretty incompetent.  Despite the efforts of our troops, many areas were allowed to fall into anarchy, because we didn't have enough troops.

We have had the successes in Iraq, the election and the constitution, in spite of the incompetency of the administration in running this war, not because they are so terrific.

I think the intelligence of the late 1990s was as contradictory as the intelligence of 2002-2003.  I don't know, that has not been the point of the discussions I have been reading.  But if the intelligence was as overwhelming as the administration presented, surely we would have had as much support for this war as we did for the war in Afghanistan. 

Cheryl

----- Original Message -----
From: "Herb Parsons" <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org 
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] stirring the hornet's nest.... (political)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 11:35:30 -0600

> 
> "intelligence presented to Congress included information that 
> supported the administration's conclusions..."
> 
> Are you talking about the intelligence presented during the late 
> 1990's? Keep in mind, many of those statements that Brad alluded to 
> were made during the previous administration. Of course, there's no 
> doubt in ANYONE's mind about that man's propensity for lying to the 
> American people.
> 
> " I don't think there has been a more incompetently, ineptly led war..."
> 
> No doubt you and I will NEVER agree on this comment, but I AM 
> curious as to what you use as a basis for the opinion? The lower 
> death toll than your friends predicted? The success in removing 
> Sadaam? The success in putting in place a new constitution? Do you 
> have ANYTHING other than your disdain for war or this 
> administration on which you base your opinion?
> 
> 
> Herb Parsons
> 
> S/V O'Jure
>    1976 O'Day 25
>    Lake Grapevine, N TX
> 
> S/V Reve de Papa
>    1971 Coronado 35
>    Lake Pontchartrain, Louisiana Coast
> 
> >>> cheryl.ogrady at mail.com 11/15/2005 9:04:26 AM >>>
> Yes, and I feel these 'leaders' betrayed their constituents with 
> these statements.  More information is coming out, however, about 
> how the intelligence presented to Congress included information 
> that supported the administration's conclusions, and left out 
> information that contradicted.  are lies of omission really lies?
> 
> Regardless, the decision was made to go to war.  I don't think 
> there has been a more incompetently, ineptly led war since, oh, 
> maybe, the British war against colonial insurgents back about 220 
> years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "brad haslett" <flybrad at yahoo.com>
> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] stirring the hornet's nest....
> Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 06:13:43 -0800 (PST)
> 
> >
> > Cheryl,
> >
> > I've got just enough time before taking my daughter to
> > school to make one poke at the hornet's nest.  Have
> > you read these quotes from various 'leaders'?
> >
> > Brad
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > "Urges the President to take all necessary and
> > appropriate actions to respond to the threat posed by
> > Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction
> > programs."
> > * Text of Senate Concurrent Resolution 71, Jan. 28,
> > 1998, co-sponsored by Democrats Tom Daschle, Patrick
> > Leahy, Max Cleland, John Kerry and Robert Byrd, among
> > others
> >
> >
> > "(Iraq) admitted, among other things, an offensive
> > biological warfare capability * notably 5,000 gallons
> > of botulinum, which causes botulism; 2,000 gallons of
> > anthrax; 25 biological-filled Scud warheads; and 157
> > aerial bombs. And might I say, UNSCOM inspectors
> > believe that Iraq has actually greatly understated its
> > production."
> > * Text of President Clinton's address to Joint Chiefs
> > of Staff and Pentagon staff, Feb. 17, 1998
> >
> >
> > As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am
> > keenly aware that the proliferation of chemical and
> > biological weapons is an issue of grave importance to
> > all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the
> > development of weapons of mass destruction technology,
> > which is a threat to countries in the region, and he
> > has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
> >
> >
> > * Press release from Rep. Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., Dec.
> > 16, 1998
> >
> >
> > Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has
> > proven impossible to deter and we should assume that
> > it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
> > * From an address by Al Gore to the Commonwealth Club
> > of California, Sept. 23, 2002
> >
> >
> > "The threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass
> > destruction is real, but as I said, it is not new. It
> > has been with us since the end of that war, and
> > particularly in the last four years ... he has
> > continued to build those weapons."
> > * Sen. John Kerry, Congressional Record, Oct. 9, 2002
> >
> >
> > "There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is
> > working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and
> > will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five
> > years."
> > * Floor statement of Sen. Jay Rockefeller of West
> > Virginia, vice chairman of the Senate Select Committee
> > on Intelligence, Oct. 10, 2002
> >
> >
> > Under Saddam's rule, Iraq has engaged in far-reaching
> > human rights abuses, been a state sponsor of terrorism
> > and has long sought to obtain and develop weapons of
> > mass destruction."
> > * Statement from the Web site of Senate Minority
> > Leader Harry Reid of Nevada, dated 2002
> >
> > I consider the prospect of a nuclear-armed Saddam
> > Hussein who can threaten not only his neighbors, but
> > the stability of the region and the world, a very
> > serious threat to the United States."
> > * Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York at a Jan.
> > 22, 2003, press conference
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Cheryl O'Grady <cheryl.ogrady at mail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > "Naturally, the common people don't want war, but
> > > they can always be brought to the bidding of the
> > > leaders.  Tell them they are being attacked, and
> > > denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and
> > > endangering the country.  It works the same in every
> > > country."  Hermann Goering, Hitler's Reichsmarshall
> > > at the Nuremburg trials
> > >
> > >
> > > Just came across this.  Sound familiar?
> > >
> > >
> > > Here's a good website, the name is self-explanatory.
> > > www.dontblamemeivoted4kerry.com >
> > > It's bumper stickers and t-shirts, but some of the
> > > lines are pretty funny.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
> > 		
> > __________________________________
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do 
> nothing."  Edmund Burke, Irish philosopher
> 
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"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."  Edmund Burke, Irish philosopher

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