[Rhodes22-list] (political) response to Brad
Bill Effros
bill at effros.com
Mon Nov 21 21:27:02 EST 2005
Ain't that the truth.
Bill Effros
Hank wrote:
>Bill,
> Is that a freudian slip that you responded to the head question email on
>the politcal e-mail thread? Since most of the politicos, party immaterial,
>are full of s**t, they probably need a working head much more than we do!
> Hank
>
> On 11/21/05, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Great idea, Jim!
>>
>>For me, all this started on a Sunfish. After you've been on a Sunfish
>>for a certain number of hours you've got some decisions to make if
>>you're nowhere near shore, and won't get back for a while.
>>
>>I'd never been on a boat the size of a Rhodes with a great head.
>>Between being out on a mooring, and being out a lot, I'm seldom on the
>>boat for fewer than 6-8 hours. The head gets a lot of use. It's nice
>>to have one that stays clean and is easy for guests to use. I think a
>>lot of people coming onto a small sailboat for the first time worry and
>>wonder exactly how that's going to shake out.
>>
>>Bill Effros
>>
>>
>>Jim White wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>When it's too rough, I pee directly into the bilge, avoiding the porta
>>>
>>>
>>potti, and just let the bilge pump handle it.....screw the clean water act.
>>
>>
>>>jw
>>>
>>>"Steven L. Mutart" <SMutart at CWRLaw.com> wrote:
>>>Go for it Cheryl: I got tired of reading about porta potties and bilge
>>>
>>>
>>pumps. Speaking of chicken hawks, I note it's been awhile since our fearless
>>leader uttered those famous words "Bring 'em on!!"
>>
>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Cheryl O'Grady [mailto:cheryl.ogrady at mail.com]
>>>Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 3:44 PM
>>>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] (political) response to Brad
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>spending four months in a war theatre, or four years
>>>>for that matter, doesn't give one magical powers to be
>>>>a military leader.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>spending four years in a war theater might have given all the
>>>
>>>
>>"chicken-hawks," as they have been dubbed, a little more reluctance to send
>>people into harms way based on intelligence that is daily proving to have
>>been shaky, at best. (an article in today's paper talked about information
>>the Germans gave the US but qualified it all over the place, because the
>>source was unreliable. our government then touted this information all over
>>the place as fact)
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Re-read the constitution. The head of the military is
>>>>a civilian, always has been. Prior military
>>>>experience is not a requirement.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>No, we don't want to require military service. However, we have an
>>>
>>>
>>administration of war hawks who all AVOIDED active service in a war theater,
>>some with deferments, others by joining the Guard (the "I served" way of
>>avoiding VietNam).
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>"A President has to rely on the commanders in the field and their
>>>>
>>>>
>>assesments. You may
>>
>>
>>>>be right on this; we may need more troops before we have less."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Which general was it who was more or less removed from his position
>>>
>>>
>>because, before the war started, he advocated a number of troops needed that
>>was far higher than Rumsfeld wanted - was it Shalikasvili (sorry if I have
>>murdered the spelling)?
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Cheryl, there are hundreds if not thousands of blogs
>>>>and websites from soldiers in Iraq. They will be
>>>>happy to correspond with you and let you know what
>>>>their feelings and needs are. At least read a few of
>>>>them. Right now they are extremely pissed off at the
>>>>press for not covering all the good things that they
>>>>are achieving and are mad as hell that members of
>>>>Congress are talking "cut and run".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>I never said I don't believe our military aren't doing good things. Each
>>>
>>>
>>and every one of them is a hero, in my mind. I, too, am angry with Congress
>>for it's "cut and run" rhetoric. I feel the press is covering a lot of the
>>good things they do. But I am so damn pissed off that they are there in the
>>first place. I repeat, how do we express this anger without denigrating the
>>soldiers doing the fighting?
>>
>>
>>>Cheryl
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Cheryl,
>>>>
>>>>Let's start with the end of your response first.
>>>>Re-read the constitution. The head of the military is
>>>>a civilian, always has been. Prior military
>>>>experience is not a requirement. Good thing,
>>>>otherwise we would have been denied wartime leaders A.
>>>>Lincoln (but for a weekend in the Indian hunting
>>>>militia), FDR, and that brave warrior, the "Bomber of
>>>>Bosnia", William Jefferson Clinton. Serving in the
>>>>Reserve is hardly avoiding service, look at the number
>>>>of Reservists killed in our current battle (I say
>>>>battle because the GWT won't be over in our lifetime).
>>>>One of the lessons we learned from Vietnam (or should
>>>>have learned) is that you don't draft 18 and 19 year
>>>>olds, send them into battle with no unit cohesion, and
>>>>expect them to be happy soldiers. Conversely,
>>>>spending four months in a war theatre, or four years
>>>>for that matter, doesn't give one magical powers to be
>>>>a military leader. And by the way, do you know
>>>>anything about the aircraft W flew, or its mission?
>>>>Vietnam wasn't any safer nor was his aircraft a
>>>>safehaven from 'Nam deployment.
>>>>
>>>>Now let's start from the top of your letter and work
>>>>down.
>>>>
>>>>We needed to send in more troops? Maybe. Tommy
>>>>Franks position in his book "American Soldier" was
>>>>that the logistical tail was already getting too long
>>>>during the march to Baghdad and the 4th ID was bogged
>>>>down in Kuwait after Turkey denied entry from the
>>>>north. However, and this is a big however, perhaps we
>>>>should have followed-up with more "boots" once the
>>>>incredibly rapid march toward Baghdad was over. If
>>>>this was a failing, it will be debated in the War
>>>>College and by historians for a long time. We saw how
>>>>well LBJ did micro-managing a war from the basement of
>>>>the White House. A President has to rely on the
>>>>commanders in the field and their assesments. You may
>>>>be right on this; we may need more troops before we
>>>>have less.
>>>>
>>>>"We broke it, we need to fix it." Thank you. That is
>>>>what Colin Powell said during the run-up to war, he
>>>>called it the "Pottery Barn" rule. Leaving now
>>>>without the legitimate Iraqi government having the
>>>>ability to defend itself from civil war would be
>>>>foolish.
>>>>
>>>>"How do you suggest that people who are against the
>>>>war should express their dissent and dissatisfaction
>>>>in such s way as to honor the people doing the
>>>>fighting..........?"
>>>>
>>>>Cheryl, there are hundreds if not thousands of blogs
>>>>and websites from soldiers in Iraq. They will be
>>>>happy to correspond with you and let you know what
>>>>their feelings and needs are. At least read a few of
>>>>them. Right now they are extremely pissed off at the
>>>>press for not covering all the good things that they
>>>>are achieving and are mad as hell that members of
>>>>Congress are talking "cut and run". Try Google.
>>>>
>>>>Brad
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>--- Cheryl O'Grady wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Bob,
>>>>>I found your post very interesting, particularly the
>>>>>conclusion that we need more troops to close the
>>>>>borders.
>>>>>
>>>>>Believe it or not, because I never supported the
>>>>>invasion of Iraq, I think we need to send more
>>>>>troops in to get the job finished so we can get out
>>>>>and go home. See, once they decided to do it, they
>>>>>should have done it right. My heart goes out to the
>>>>>troops who feel we don't support them. I do, and so
>>>>>do most who are against the war. I don't advocate
>>>>>an immediate pullout, that would be wrong, for all
>>>>>the guys who died or were maimed during service
>>>>>there, and also for the civilians who would be left
>>>>>in the middle of a vicious civil war. We broke it,
>>>>>we need to fix it. We just had no business going in
>>>>>in the first place.
>>>>>
>>>>>How do you suggest that people who are against the
>>>>>war should express their dissent and dissatisfaction
>>>>>in such a way as to honor the people doing the
>>>>>fighting while dumping porta-potti contents on the
>>>>>draft-dodgers who got us in there in the first
>>>>>place? Oh, sorry, those were deferments, weren't
>>>>>they, and daddy-connected reserve jobs....not
>>>>>draft-dodging.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "Robert Skinner"
>>>>>To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
>>>>>
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] stirring the hornet's
>>>>>nest.... (political) -JohnMurtha chimes in
>>>>>Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:09:14 -0500
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Mike -
>>>>>>>What do you think of this? It showed up in my
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>inbox, unsolicited,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>but may be valid. I trust no source any more,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>except friends who
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>are coming back, and each of them has a
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>necessarily limited view
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>of the conflict/situation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>How does it square with what you are hearing?
>>>>>>>Do you have an opinion about whether we should
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>pull out?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Or should we send in enuf troops to seal borders?
>>>>>>Do we have enuf force to seal borders?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>/Bob
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The following is a report from a grunt in Iraq
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>and is something that will
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>almost never be shown on the left leaning news
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>networks.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Subject: Report From Down Range
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>This was sent to me a West Coast USAR CW3 who
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>got it from a Semper Fi, UAL
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>retired, east coast type.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hello to all my fellow gunners, military buffs,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>veterans and interested
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>guys. A couple of weekends ago I got to spend
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>time with my son Jordan, who
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>was on his first leave since returning from
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>Iraq. He is well (a little
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>thin), and already bored. He will be returning
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>to Iraq for a second tour in
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>early 06 and has already re-enlisted early for 4
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>more years. He loves the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Marine Corps and is actually looking forward to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>returning to Iraq.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Jordan spent 7 months at Camp Blue Diamond in
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>Ramadi. Aka: Fort Apache. He
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>saw and did a lot and the following is what he
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>told me about weapons,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>equipment, tactics and other miscellaneous info
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>which may be of interest to
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Nothing is by any means classified. No politics
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>here, just a Marine with a
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>birds eye views opinions:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>1) The M-16 rifle : Thumbs down. Chronic jamming
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>problems with the talcum
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>powder like sand over there. The sand is
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>everywhere. Jordan says you feel
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>filthy 2 minutes after coming out of the shower.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>The M-4 carbine version is
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>more popular because its lighter and shorter,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>but it has jamming problems
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>also. They like the ability to mount the various
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>optical gunsights and
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>weapons lights on the picattiny rails, but the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>weapon itself is not great in
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>a desert environment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>They all hate the 5.56mm (.223) round. Poor
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>penetration on the cinderblock
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>structure common over there and even torso hits
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>cant be reliably counted on
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>to put the enemy down. Fun fact: Random
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>autopsies on dead insurgents shows a
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>high level of opiate use.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>2) The M243 SAW (squad assault weapon): .223
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>cal. Drum fed light machine
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>gun. Big thumbs down. Universally considered a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>piece of shit. Chronic
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>jamming problems, most of which require partial
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>disassembly. (that fun in
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>the middle of a firefight).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>3) The M9 Beretta 9mm: Mixed bag. Good gun,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>performs well in desert
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>environment; but they all hate the 9mm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>cartridge. The use of handguns for
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>self-defense is actually fairly common. Same old
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>story on the 9mm: Bad guys
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>hit multiple times and still in the fight.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>4) Mossberg 12ga. Military shotgun: Works well,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>used frequently for clearing
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>houses to good effect.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>5) The M240 Machine Gun: 7.62 Nato (.308) cal.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>belt fed machine gun,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>developed to replace the old M-60 (what a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>beautiful weapon that was!!).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Thumbs up. Accurate, reliable, and the 7.62
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>round puts em down. Originally
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>developed as a vehicle mounted weapon, more and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>more are being dismounted
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>and taken into the field by infantry. The 7.62
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>round chews up the structure
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>over there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>6) The M2 .50 cal heavy machine gun: Thumbs way,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>way up. Ma deuce is still
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>worth her considerable weight in gold. The
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>ultimate fight stopper, puts
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>their dicks in the dirt every time. The most
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>coveted weapon in-theater.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>7) The .45 pistol: Thumbs up. Still the best
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>pistol round out there.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Everybody authorized to carry a sidearm is
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>trying to get their hands on one.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>With few exceptions, can reliably be expected to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>put em down with a torso
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>hit. The special ops guys (who are doing most of
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>the pistol work) use the HK
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>military model and supposedly love it. The old
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>government model .45s are
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>being re-issued en masse.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>8) The M-14: Thumbs up. They are being re-issued
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>in bulk, mostly in a
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>modified version to special ops guys.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>Modifications include lightweight
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Kevlar stocks and low power red dot or ACOG
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>sights. Very reliable in the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>sandy environment, and they love the 7.62 round.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>9) The Barrett .50 cal sniper rifle: Thumbs way
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>up. Spectacular range and
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>accuracy and hits like a freight train. Used
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>frequently to take out vehicle
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>suicide bombers ( we actually stop a lot of
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>them) and barricaded enemy.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Definitely here to stay.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>10) The M24 sniper rifle: Thumbs up. Mostly in
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>.308 but some in 300 win mag.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Heavily modified Remington 700s. Great
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>performance. Snipers have been used
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>heavily to great effect. Rumor has it that a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>marine sniper on his third tour
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>in Anbar province has actually exceeded Carlos
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>Hathcocks record for
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>confirmed kills with OVER 100.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>11) The new body armor: Thumbs up. Relatively
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>light at approx. 6 lbs. and
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>can reliably be expected to soak up small
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>shrapnel and even will stop an
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>AK-47 round. The bad news: Hot as shit to wear,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>almost unbearable in the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>summer heat (which averages over 120 degrees).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>Also, the enemy now goes for
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>head shots whenever possible. All the bullshit
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>about
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>=== message truncated ===
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>__________________________________
>>>>Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
>>>>http://mail.yahoo.com
>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list<http://www.rhodes22.org/list>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do
>>>
>>>
>>nothing." Edmund Burke, Irish philosopher
>>
>>
>>>__________________________________________________
>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list<http://www.rhodes22.org/list>
>>>__________________________________________________
>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list<http://www.rhodes22.org/list>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Jim White
>>>Le Menagerie
>>>www.lemenagerie.blogspot.com <http://www.lemenagerie.blogspot.com>
>>>
>>>---------------------------------
>>>Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
>>>__________________________________________________
>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list<http://www.rhodes22.org/list>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>__________________________________________________
>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list<http://www.rhodes22.org/list>
>>
>>
>>
>__________________________________________________
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