[Rhodes22-list] P-Horse shit and drinking.

Bill Effros bill at effros.com
Sat Sep 24 10:56:16 EDT 2005


Wally,

I agree with you.  Ms. Anderson does not speak for me.  I was just 
reporting the news, because it seemed to be in agreement with your position.

I have read accounts since Sept. 1 that the levees that broke were no 
where near their high water mark, that they had not been over-topped, 
that it was known that they had broken because contract specifications 
were not met, and that they were never hit by the category 4 storm.  A 
category 4 storm hit elsewhere, New Orleans got a category 3 or less, 
and the levees should have held.

I am in no position to judge the validity of these accounts, but I have 
read nothing refuting them.  

Bill Effros

Wally Buck wrote:

> Bill,
>
> If you are saying that local governments have a good plan, Julie 
> Anderson should have left sooner, taken a different route, and quit 
> complaining then you agreed with me. I guess it depends on who Ms. 
> Anderson is calling "we".
>
> Sometimes I wonder how smart we really are. Without velvet ropes some 
> wouldn't even know how to line up in a bank.  :-)
>
> You said the levees in NO were built incorrectly. Why do you make this 
> claim? The levees actually performed up to the limits of their design. 
> No one said they would stand up to surge of Cat 4.
>
> Wally ......heading to the lake!
>
>
>> From: Rik Sandberg <sanderico at earthlink.net>
>> Reply-To: sanderico at earthlink.net,The Rhodes 22 mail list 
>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] P-Horse shit and drinking.
>> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 09:23:47 -0500
>>
>> Bill,
>>
>> It'll be interesting to see if Wally thinks I disagreed with him.
>>
>> I wonder, just how wide do we have to build a freeway just incase we 
>> might have one major hurricane in in 20 or 30 years?
>>
>> Probably right about the proportions of horseshit vs drinking. :-)
>>
>> Rik
>>
>> Bill Effros wrote:
>>
>> Bill Effros wrote:
>>
>>> Rik,
>>>
>>> Wally said the government didn't learn because it's evacuation plans 
>>> hadn't been changed, but that he thought people would evacuate 
>>> sooner in the face of Rita, because citizens had learned.
>>>
>>> Initially I took the other position, but then I saw the AP story, 
>>> and said maybe I was wrong.
>>>
>>> As I understand what you have said, you are the one who is 
>>> disagreeing with Wally.
>>>
>>> Now, I'm sure Rummy will soon note that we seem to have our 
>>> proportions of horse shit and drinking reversed.
>>>
>>> Bill Effros
>>>
>>>
>>> Rik Sandberg wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bill,
>>>>
>>>> You've got a pretty darn strange way of "agreeing"
>>>>
>>>>> "This is the worst planning I've ever seen," said Judie Anderson, 
>>>>> who covered just 45 miles in 12 hours after setting out from her 
>>>>> home in the Houston suburb of LaPorte. "They say we've learned a 
>>>>> lot from Hurricane Katrina. Well, you couldn't prove it by me."
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm with Wally. Didn't seem like "agreement" to me either.
>>>>
>>>> The gov't may have learned from Katrina, BUT it seems the people 
>>>> didn't. They all act like a herd of cattle all trying to squeeze 
>>>> through the barn door at the same time. Do any of them own a map? 
>>>> have they never thought that there are state highways and county 
>>>> and even township roads that go the same direction they want to go? 
>>>> No, a million of them just mindlessly head for the freeway and 
>>>> can't understand why there is a traffic problem.
>>>>
>>>> All this reliance on the gov't is turning people into a bunch of 
>>>> mindless idiots.
>>>>
>>>> OH MY GOD .... there I go .... blaming the victims again.
>>>>
>>>> Rik
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bill Effros wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Wally,
>>>>>
>>>>> I was agreeing with you.  You made a point.  I said I thought you 
>>>>> were wrong.  Then I saw this story.  Then I said maybe you were 
>>>>> right.  Now you say I don't seem to understand....
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>>
>>>>> Wally Buck wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I guess Julie Anderson hasn't learn much as well. There are 
>>>>>> always traffic jams when they evacuate large cities. The larger 
>>>>>> the population the bigger the problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> She is 45 miles away from Houston, the storm isn't due until 
>>>>>> tomorrow. Shut up and keep driving. It sounds like she will be 
>>>>>> safe. She is whining already and not a drop of rain. This just 
>>>>>> goes to show how difficult the task is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There will always be problems with an evacuation of this size. 
>>>>>> You don't seem to understand this. Nothing iis perfect. People 
>>>>>> are free to  leave when ever they want. You don't have to wait 
>>>>>> for a government order.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wally
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>>>>>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] P-Horse shit and drinking.
>>>>>>> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:18:59 -0400
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wally,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe you were right.  This from the Associated Press:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "This is the worst planning I've ever seen," said Judie 
>>>>>>> Anderson, who covered just 45 miles in 12 hours after setting 
>>>>>>> out from her home in the Houston suburb of LaPorte. "They say 
>>>>>>> we've learned a lot from Hurricane Katrina. Well, you couldn't 
>>>>>>> prove it by me."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wally Buck wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bill,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I heard the mayors of Gavelston and Houston interviewed last 
>>>>>>>> night. They were asked what changes they made to evac plan post 
>>>>>>>> Katrina. The said basically none. They have spent years 
>>>>>>>> educating the public about the dangers of hurricanes. They 
>>>>>>>> talked about how hard they had trained for.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think the real lessons learned were from the citizens. I have 
>>>>>>>> a fealing people will take these storms more serioulsy in the 
>>>>>>>> future.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Wally
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>>>>>>>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] P-Horse shit and drinking.
>>>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:48:22 -0400
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Wally,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I did not mean to berate Herb, and I do understand how my 
>>>>>>>>> comments could have been taken that way, and for that I 
>>>>>>>>> apologize to Herb, and to the rest of the list.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What I was trying to say was that people on the scene can tell 
>>>>>>>>> us what they see, but that those first hand accounts should 
>>>>>>>>> not be confused with expertise about obscure laws that do not 
>>>>>>>>> apply, or a special knowledge of the sequence of events which 
>>>>>>>>> the observer did not see.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The Blind Men and the Elephant.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am not blaming anyone for anything, except those who yell 
>>>>>>>>> "Blame Game" over and over to obscure the facts, and then 
>>>>>>>>> start flooding the Internet with completely false 
>>>>>>>>> information.  In my view that is dangerous, and someone must 
>>>>>>>>> speak out against it.  General Honore has done so, and I 
>>>>>>>>> applaud him for it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The current situation with Rita is exactly the same as the 
>>>>>>>>> situation with Katrina was, this many days before the 
>>>>>>>>> hurricane hit.  FEMA is in action.  Local governments are 
>>>>>>>>> doing their best.  Pre-determined evacuation plans are being 
>>>>>>>>> implemented on the local, state and federal levels.  Things 
>>>>>>>>> have been learned in the intervening 3 weeks, they are being 
>>>>>>>>> applied, and we will surely have less loss of life this time 
>>>>>>>>> around.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And that is the reason it is so important to get the facts 
>>>>>>>>> right, from the get-go, and not be lulled by a President who 
>>>>>>>>> says, wrongly, again and again, "There is plenty of time for 
>>>>>>>>> us to figure out what went wrong..."  Well, there wasn't 
>>>>>>>>> plenty of time to figure out what went wrong, and luckily many 
>>>>>>>>> people started trying to figure it out and do something about 
>>>>>>>>> it immediately..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Wally Buck wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bill,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Herb provided us a first hand account of what he witnessed. 
>>>>>>>>>> The man has been through hell and has still taken the time to 
>>>>>>>>>> help. Why are you berating him? He never claimed he was an 
>>>>>>>>>> expert.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I must admit I have to chuckly every time I see Busch on TV. 
>>>>>>>>>> I think the guy is a clown. However he did not cause this. 
>>>>>>>>>> Not to make light but in some ways the less hands on .....the 
>>>>>>>>>> less he will screw up.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It seems obvious that there wasn't a sound evacuation plan. 
>>>>>>>>>> This is a local issue not federal. If we focus on seeking 
>>>>>>>>>> blame this will happen again. If we focus on how local 
>>>>>>>>>> governments can better prepare for these type emergencies the 
>>>>>>>>>> citizens will be better off. If there were protocol issues 
>>>>>>>>>> fix them. Blaming Bush solves nothing.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Wally
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Horse shit and drinking.
>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:47:12 -0400
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Herb,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Driving a boat through muck does not qualify you as a 
>>>>>>>>>>> jurisdictional expert in Federal Emergency Management.  What 
>>>>>>>>>>> you heard from people in the water, that they did what they 
>>>>>>>>>>> were supposed to do, is correct.  However, FEMA must 
>>>>>>>>>>> coordinate the response to emergencies.  That is its 
>>>>>>>>>>> mandate.  They don't need to get permission from anyone 
>>>>>>>>>>> else--that's their job when emergencies occur.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> FEMA was like a deer in the headlights.  First responders 
>>>>>>>>>>> were turned away by FEMA officials in New Orleans.  This did 
>>>>>>>>>>> not happen in New York.  I think we all agree that the heads 
>>>>>>>>>>> of FEMA were incompetent political cronies.  They will be 
>>>>>>>>>>> gone.  However, their superiors in the Federal Government 
>>>>>>>>>>> did not take this matter seriously enough to interrupt what 
>>>>>>>>>>> they were doing to oversee what was obviously a disaster.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Just like local officials in New York, the local officials 
>>>>>>>>>>> in New Orleans did their best and screwed up.  We lost 100s 
>>>>>>>>>>> of first responders here in NYC due to the incompetence of 
>>>>>>>>>>> our local politicians.  But we saved thousands due to the 
>>>>>>>>>>> prompt, if not always correct, actions of the Federal 
>>>>>>>>>>> Government.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The Federal Government was on vacation this August, but, 
>>>>>>>>>>> unlike you, the individuals in positions of responsibility 
>>>>>>>>>>> did not take time off from their vacations to deal with an 
>>>>>>>>>>> emergency while it was happening.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This is part of a trend that has been noted often before.  
>>>>>>>>>>> Let me point out, yet again, that on August 6, 2001 
>>>>>>>>>>> President Bush received a memo from the CIA, while 
>>>>>>>>>>> vacationing on his ranch, entitled: "Bin Laden Determined to 
>>>>>>>>>>> Strike in US".  The President did not interrupt his vacation 
>>>>>>>>>>> for that one, either.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Herb Parsons wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You're leaving out one major factor in the comparison. The 
>>>>>>>>>>>> FAA has jurisdiction over flights. The Mayor of New Orleans 
>>>>>>>>>>>> has jurisdiction over the city, the Governor over the state 
>>>>>>>>>>>> of Louisiana. I'm going to repeat this, from what I heard 
>>>>>>>>>>>> at the scene, the Coast Guard in Alexandria was ready 
>>>>>>>>>>>> BEFORE the storm hit. Their services were offered to the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> state, the state declined, putting their game wardens in 
>>>>>>>>>>>> charge. Once the feds were released to act, they acted.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It's a popular misconception for folks to talk about "not 
>>>>>>>>>>>> answering the phone" when the President is on "vacation." 
>>>>>>>>>>>> He has a phone when he's on vacation. He has an office when 
>>>>>>>>>>>> he's on vacation. It's that type of hyperbole that 
>>>>>>>>>>>> diminishes credibility for those that employ it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> BTW, I was on "vacation" when I was in New Orleans. I've 
>>>>>>>>>>>> got the pay stubs to prove it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb Parsons
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> S/V O'Jure
>>>>>>>>>>>>  1976 O'Day 25
>>>>>>>>>>>>  Lake Grapevine, N TX
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> S/V Reve de Papa
>>>>>>>>>>>>  1971 Coronado 35
>>>>>>>>>>>>  Lake Pontchartrain, Louisiana Coast
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bill at effros.com 9/20/2005 8:09:56 AM >>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In early 2001 FEMA identified the 3 most catastrophic 
>>>>>>>>>>>> situations it might some day have to address.  They were:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1.  A terrorist attack on NYC.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2.  A major earthquake in San Francisco.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 3.  A levee break in New Orleans.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On September 11, 2001, 37 minutes after the take-off of the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> first hijacked airplane, the FAA requested that military 
>>>>>>>>>>>> aircraft scramble to help deal with the known hijacking.  
>>>>>>>>>>>> Within 9 minutes there were military aircraft in the sky.  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 4 minutes later, the military received notice that the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> airplane they were trying to find had just hit the World 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Trade Center.  The President of the United States, on his 
>>>>>>>>>>>> way to a "Photo Op" in a school in Florida, was immediately 
>>>>>>>>>>>> informed.  He told reporters before entering the school 
>>>>>>>>>>>> that he was aware of the fact that a plane had smashed into 
>>>>>>>>>>>> the World Trade Center.  3 minutes later the FAA determined 
>>>>>>>>>>>> that a second aircraft had been hijacked, and immediately 
>>>>>>>>>>>> the FAA began contacting and diverting airplanes.  7 
>>>>>>>>>>>> minutes later a different FAA flight controller called a 
>>>>>>>>>>>> different military installation to request help.  A minute 
>>>>>>>>>>>> later, another FAA flight controller, in yet another part 
>>>>>>>>>>>> of the country called another military unit to request 
>>>>>>>>>>>> aircraft be scrambled.  None of these flight controllers 
>>>>>>>>>>>> knew that the others had acted.  The military did not know 
>>>>>>>>>>>> that it had received multiple requests.  8 minutes later 
>>>>>>>>>>>> there were multiple military fighter jets over Long Island. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  5 minutes later the fighters were moved over Manhattan.  A 
>>>>>>>>>>>> minute later jets were scrambled from Langly AFB in 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Virginia and sent up to NYC because the fighters over NYC 
>>>>>>>>>>>> were running low on fuel.  8 minutes later the FAA closed 
>>>>>>>>>>>> all NYC airports.  4 minutes later the Port Authority of 
>>>>>>>>>>>> NYC closed all bridges and tunnels.  1 minute later the FAA 
>>>>>>>>>>>> told Dulles air controllers to watch for incoming hijacked 
>>>>>>>>>>>> aircraft.  4 minutes later the military established a 
>>>>>>>>>>>> combat air patrol over Manhattan, and, at the same time, 
>>>>>>>>>>>> the FAA grounded all aircraft all over the country.  5 
>>>>>>>>>>>> minutes later, the President of the United States went on 
>>>>>>>>>>>> National TV to announce that the country had suffered "an 
>>>>>>>>>>>> apparent terrorist attack".  15 minutes later the White 
>>>>>>>>>>>> House was evacuated.  12 minutes later the President left 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Florida for an Air Force Base in Louisiana.  9 minutes 
>>>>>>>>>>>> later the South Tower of the World Trade Center collapsed.  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 5 minutes later part of the Pentagon collapsed.  9 minutes 
>>>>>>>>>>>> later the UN building was evacuated.  15 minutes later the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> North Tower of the World Trade Center collapsed.  17 
>>>>>>>>>>>> minutes later all Federal buildings in Washington DC were 
>>>>>>>>>>>> evacuated.  7 minutes later, all DC area airports were 
>>>>>>>>>>>> closed.  10 minutes later the Mayor of NYC ordered the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> evacuation of everyone south of the World Trade Center. 2 
>>>>>>>>>>>> hours and 2 minutes later, the President of the United 
>>>>>>>>>>>> States, speaking from Barksdale AFB in Louisiana, said the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> US military has been put on high alert world wide.  44 
>>>>>>>>>>>> minutes later the President of the United States flew to an 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Air Force base in Nebraska.  4 hours and 53 minutes later, 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Defense Secretary Rumsfeld announced that the Pentagon had 
>>>>>>>>>>>> re-opened and was conducting business.  13 minutes later 
>>>>>>>>>>>> the President returned to the White House from Omaha, 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nebraska.  By this time, FEMA was on the ground, inside 
>>>>>>>>>>>> both New York City and Washington DC coordinating the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> nation's response to the disaster.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Now let's compare that response to the Federal Government's 
>>>>>>>>>>>> response to Hurricane Katrina.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, August 26 the State of Louisiana declared a 
>>>>>>>>>>>> state of emergency because it was clear that hurricane 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Katrina was going to strike somewhere on the Louisiana 
>>>>>>>>>>>> coast.  FEMA was automatically notified.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, August 27, FEMA took no action to mitigate 
>>>>>>>>>>>> what was sure to be a major disaster somewhere on the Gulf 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Coast.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, August 28, the National Weather Service posted 
>>>>>>>>>>>> this warning under the headline :
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ''Hurricane Katrina. A most powerful hurricane with 
>>>>>>>>>>>> unprecedented strength.".
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Most of the area will be uninhabitable for weeks, perhaps 
>>>>>>>>>>>> longer...Power outages will last for weeks...Water 
>>>>>>>>>>>> shortages will make human suffering incredible by modern 
>>>>>>>>>>>> standards.''
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The warning had been written years earlier.  Only the name 
>>>>>>>>>>>> of the hurricane was inserted at the last minute.  There 
>>>>>>>>>>>> was no question that the hurricane would strike somewhere 
>>>>>>>>>>>> along the Gulf Coast of the United States, resulting in 
>>>>>>>>>>>> massive loss of life.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The President of the United States immediately issued a 
>>>>>>>>>>>> declaration of emergency for the Gulf Coast region.  He 
>>>>>>>>>>>> also found time to cut a cake for John McCain, play a 
>>>>>>>>>>>> guitar for Mark Wills, deliver an address about V-J day, 
>>>>>>>>>>>> and stay at his ranch to continue his vacation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The Mayor of New Orleans issued a mandatory evacuation 
>>>>>>>>>>>> order for the entire city.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, August 29, the hurricane hit, at 6:10 am 
>>>>>>>>>>>> narrowly missing New Orleans, but flattening several cities 
>>>>>>>>>>>> to the East.  The loss of life in one small town in 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mississippi was immediately known to be greater than the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> total loss of life resulting from 3 hurricanes that hit 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Florida the previous year which resulted in a massive and 
>>>>>>>>>>>> immediate federal disaster relief response just prior to a 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Presidential election in a state with 25 electoral votes.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 10,000 people who were unable to leave New Orleans were 
>>>>>>>>>>>> already being sheltered in the Superdome as part of the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> emergency evacuation procedure devised by disaster 
>>>>>>>>>>>> mitigation experts from FEMA.  It was known that they had 
>>>>>>>>>>>> no food or water, and that it was the responsibility of 
>>>>>>>>>>>> FEMA to provide everything they would need to safely 
>>>>>>>>>>>> evacuate the victims.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The President remained on vacation.  The head of FEMA went 
>>>>>>>>>>>> to Baton Rouge.  The Vice President remained on vacation.  
>>>>>>>>>>>> The Head of Homeland security remained on vacation.  The 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Secretary of State remained on vacation.  Congress remained 
>>>>>>>>>>>> on vacation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Local officials on the ground knew that their resources had 
>>>>>>>>>>>> been overwhelmed, and they knew they needed massive and 
>>>>>>>>>>>> immediate Federal assistance.  Federal aid was the primary 
>>>>>>>>>>>> component of disaster response to a tragedy of this 
>>>>>>>>>>>> magnitude.  But the Federal Government simply was not 
>>>>>>>>>>>> answering the phone.  They were on vacation, and too busy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Then the levee broke in New Orleans.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb Parsons wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually Rummy, I don't live in another country, nor am I 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> basing what I say on watching "the news much". I spoke 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> personally with the commander on duty at the Coast Guard 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> staging area in Alexandria. He had the resources in place, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> waiting in Alexandria. He was waiting for permission FROM 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> THE STATE to send them in. The STATE chose to have their 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> resources in place, namely the Louisiana Fish and Wildlife 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Department (yep, that's right Governor Blanco chose to put 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> her state's game wardens in charge of recovery, instead of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the feds, who are trained to do that.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was there friend, I saw it first hand. I saw the news 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> cameras on site at the barricades, in their air 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> conditioned portables studios. On the other hand, out in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the streets, there were a few print media folks, but very 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> few. The only video crew I saw "out in the field" was with 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Air National Guard. The rest of the folks didn't want 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to stray far from their portable studios. And, in spite of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> your absolute belief that it was the news media that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> brought about change is as misguided and misinformed as 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rest of the nonsense you seem to be subscribing to.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, that wasn't the point of what I was saying at all. My 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> point was folks can stand around pointing fingers at 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> others all they want, but that gets NOTHING done. Before 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone complains about what someone else did or did not 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> do, they should ask themselves what THEY did.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I view the governments role to fill in where the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> individuals can't (I can't personally build a highway, or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> field an army), but that does NOT relieve the individual 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of their duty when the need arises. I went to NO because I 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> couldn't be me and NOT go. My boss instructed me to stop 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> thanking him for letting me take off, that he did so 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> because it's what he had to do. My wife and children told 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> me to stop apologizing for missing my wife's 50 birthday 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> party, that they missed me, but that what I was doing was 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> more important.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Everywhere I went, and this isn't hearing it from a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> television reporter looking for ratings, or an ex-first 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lady trying to position herself for the next presidential 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> vacancy, EVERYWHERE I went, I saw people first hand doing 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> what they could do; whether it was giving me some gas cans 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> so we can put gas in our DUKW, or handing a baby to our 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> crew on the boat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> THAT my friend, is what "we" are. We AREN'T the whimpering 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> whining media, or the jostling politicians looking to gain 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ratings numbers on the Neilson or the latest poll on the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> backs of those that lost everything.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, and for whatever it's worth, I'm still getting in boat 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> time too. Mast going up got delayed by a few days because 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the trip, but it went up today. It had to, our sail 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> club is taking a group of handicapped kids out sailing 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> this weekend, and I committed and need to be ready.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> THAT's the country I live in, since you asked.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, go have your drink, and watch your game.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb Parsons
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> S/V O'Jure
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1976 O'Day 25
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lake Grapevine, N TX
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> S/V Reve de Papa
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1971 Coronado 35
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lake Pontchartrain, Louisiana Coast
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> R22RumRunner at aol.com 9/19/2005 8:54:09 PM >>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You either live in a different country or don't watch the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> news much. Our  gov't sat on their collective hands and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> did nothing for the people of NO for  five, yes count 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> them, five days. And then it was only after the news media 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> made  them look as stupid as they collectively are that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> they decided to finally do  something.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The governments own weather person said this was going to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be a devastating  storm 24 hours before it struck. It 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> certainly had time to react, but no, those  idiots in FEMA 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (not trained in emergency management) didn't know what to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> do.  Hell, I could go on and on and rehash the same shit, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but I won't. There's more  important things to attend to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tonight, like watching football and drinking. Remember, a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> shot in the glass is better than one in the ass.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rummy
>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
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>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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